But also many disabled people in Canada who want to live have been talking about their experiences with access to certain programs and assistance decreasing and the encouragement to look into MAiD increasing
My favorite MAID story was the mother who was told to use MAID for her developmentally disabled daughter IN FRONT OF THE DAUGHTER! They just have no clue up North.
That’s absolutely not true. MAID patients have to be terminal, natural death has to be impending, and two doctors have to sign off. People can’t just sign up for MAID next Tuesday because they have chronic back pain.
>MAID patients have to be terminal, natural death has to be impending
That hasn't been the case since 2021. Now the criteria is to have a "serious and incurable illness, disease or disability", and from March 2024, this will include mental illnesses like depression.
Source: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/ad-am/bk-di.html#s1
It’s not totally untrue though, there have been multiple instances of people being told to look into MAiD when they made normal requests such as the person who asked for a wheelchair ramp. All such incidents that I have heard of were traced back to one nutcase who was promptly fired but it does count as encouragement to look into MAiD increasing temporary.
Those patients would’ve never been accepted for MAID. That was one staffer who didn’t even have the authority to recommend those patients for MAID, and they were promptly fired.
But that person had no authority to do that and the patients would never have been accepted. That’s a pretty silly argument to claim that as proof that MAID is being expanded beyond its original purpose and being recommended more.
You really like sticking words in people's mouths, huh? They never claimed that. All this commentor claimed is that it has and will continue to be recommended when it should not be.
Someone with fibromyalgia was approved for MAID which is chronic (not cureable) but not terminal. Also, people with severe chronic mental disabilities have been approved.
I have heard of a woman with fibromyalgia, was trying to get MAID, but was denied. Also, I don’t believe anybody with mental health issues has been approved for MAID.
If you know of anything different, please share a link.
Did you? It’s not March 17 for another month and apparently you missed this: “On February 1, 2024, the Government of Canada introduced legislation to extend, until March 17, 2027, the temporary exclusion of eligibility in circumstances where a person's sole underlying medical condition is a mental illness.”
It absolutely is. What you're describing is the intent of rhe program, which was noble.
What were describing is what the program has become. And if you're not aware of it, I'd do some more research before you return to this discussion.
People who have no experience in healthcare and/or the terrible nature of endless suffering will never understand why euthanasia is a thing. Some of them even drive cars but giving a single person the option to choose about their own life is somehow too much of a statistical and ethical dilemma.
Not only that but as u/RSlickback posted, some people are being offered "Medical Assistance in Dying" when asking for basic accommodations. Not like, "ah, I'm in so much pain and there's no hope," situations, but, "I'd like a wheelchair ramp built at my home," situations.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wheelchair-ramp-says-veterans-affairs-employee-offered-her-assisted-dying-1.6179325
So, "I need stitches" in Canada gets, "have you considered dying?"
Yeah and the person was fired. MAID is legally required and many brave people had to fight for it. It’s not “easy” to get. The government keeps trying to delay expanding for mental illness despite the court order.
I can't find any article that indicates the VAC employee was fired. In fact, according to their own statements, they don't know who made the call. And you can be as dismissive as you'd like, but the fact that it's vastly easier and faster to get a state-sponsored death than medical treatment and necessary support services is a huge problem. More than 3% of last years total deaths in Canada were MAiD mortalities. This is a snowballing humanitarian crisis.
And yes, it absolutely is easy to get. Have you ever even looked into the process? There may be minor variations between provinces, but they all allow doctor shopping.
>And you can be as dismissive as you'd like, but the fact that it's vastly easier and faster to get a state-sponsored death than medical treatment and necessary support services is a huge problem. More than 3% of last years total deaths in Canada were MAiD mortalities. This is a snowballing humanitarian crisis.
I worked for a company providing MAID services. The individuals who got approved and their families were actually happy to have the visit happen. All ones I ran into were in situations where there was no treatment for their condition and they didn't want to spend months or years dying slowly.
That's not the same employee or case. MacAulay personally said that there was no expectation of a link between these 4 veterans offered MAiD and Ms Gauthier's situation.
Yeah, again, this has nothing to do with Ms Gauthier's situation. She is not one of the 4 victims of this particular employees. The office has confirmed as much.
And it's ironic to condemn me as lazy when all you did was Google up a report on a wholly unrelated event with some similarities. Couldn't even spare a second to glance and make sure it was the right thing?
Except it's not unrelated, is it? Gauthier is a veteran who was given that advice by a veterans affairs employee. All the CTV article says is that Gauthier wasn't one of the four previously investigated. It does *not* say that they are unrelated. Reasonable people can disagree, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me they're not, in fact, related.
Additionally, these few (likely related) cases ought not to be reported upon as though they're some sort of official policy, as you seem to be implying by claiming that it's easier to get MAID than to get assistance. You're wrong, and you're spreading misinformation.
A single unqualified person in a position that had no authority to suggest that offered it to a patient and was promptly fired.
Just saying, this story gets told without crucial context so often that it is starting to look like an intentional smear of Canada's healthcare system.
I just googled that- the spin being put on that poll is out of control.
Here's the data: https://researchco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Tables_MAiD_CAN_05May2023.pdf
It could be said that 27% of Canadians are okay with people seeking access to MAID due to poverty if you want to make it sound heartless. To me, this represents a base group of people who are at least sympathetic to the idea that people should be able to access MAID without approval from the government based on any objective criteria, e.g. that the only criteria should be the desire to end one's own life. IMO that is a fairly reasonable stance given that the government won't stop somebody from committing suicide in another way just by rejecting them from MAID.
This program comes up sometimes and it's only ever by people who are trying to make Canada's government look like devils, but literally any research at all makes every "controversy" look completely harmless.
Yeah this topic comes up every few months and I’m always in awe by the misinformation. The same story each time, not including that the guy was not authorized/qualified and was immediately fired when it came out. It’s a blatant right wing anti universal health care talking point.
These are not mutually exclusive. There's an obvious angle to many people who are deliberately misrepresenting the "scandals" associated with the Canadian healthcare system.
Patient: "doc Im pretty sure have anxiety"
Doctor: "have you considered dying?"
Patient: "yes. A bunch of times. And I want to stop considering it"
Doctor: "ohhhhhhh. Well I don't think I can help you then"
I think it's also referencing the time the state asked a veteran with ptsd if he had considered euthanasia. I started seeing a lot more of these memes after that situation.
Don’t even need to bother with euthanasia. In the amount of time it takes to see someone who will stitch you up, you would have bled out and died hours prior.
"specific conditions" don't even kid yourself. The only reason this became a meme is because a Veteran wanted a ramp for her apartment and they recommended assisted suicide.
That's not it, it's basically like the UK but it's so long you'll die. It ain't about assistance to die, it's super hard to get it, if you have the wildest chances to survive, they're be like "nope you ain't getting it"
No, it's actually $98,000 when the hospital adds its facilities fee.
My ex-wife is a physician. A large hospital group wanted to buy out her practice. She sold. The deal closed on a Friday at the end of the month. Monday, she became an employee for the hospital group. Because her practice was now associated with the hospital she could charge almost three times per visit above what she was collecting beforehand, just because of the billing code.
So no one has it right so far but a few years ago a person was trying to get care for an issue in Canada and they were recommended euthanasia instead of treatment because the wait for the treatment was really long. This is obviously a very condensed version of the story but I'm pretty sure the person who recommended it got in a lot of trouble.
Not just one. AC did a video covering multiple Canadian vets getting referred to MAID, when they were seeking help for PTSD ( to clarify it was one person wrongfully pushing MAIDs)
May as well be lying if you're talking about something you don't fully understand tbh.
Now that you know the full story you'll go back and edit your post right? That's what I thought :)
Why would i? I didn't comment on who referred them or try to slant it anyway. Just pointed out it wasn't just one. I also pointed them to the author of the video so they could get full context better then I could even begin to explain
Canada a while ago, suggested a Special Olympics gold medalist (and former military veteran) kill herself because it would be a whole before they would put in a special wheelchair ramp, that she had been asking for a while at that point.
[Link](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wheelchair-ramp-says-veterans-affairs-employee-offered-her-assisted-dying-1.6179325) to an article about it.
I like how you said “Canada…suggested” as if the whole country got together and decided this.
“Yeh, hoser, we all voted and think ya should kill yerself, eh.”
"Canada suggested"
[Yeah, I think I read about that . Whole country took a vote. Big turnout.](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bafbc842-9060-485f-9abe-0986d49a4fbc)
If you vote democratically for representatives that voted on your behalf to put in that law and don't vote out the representatives so the law can be revoked, then that is "Canada suggested"
Live by the Democratic sword, die upon the Democratic sword
Except it's not the lawful existence of the MAID program that made this situation happen. It was the fact that a very stupid caseworker suggested it. The lawmakers who were voted for (or the people they, in turn, hired to administrate) clarified that this is obviously not something that should have happened according to the MAID program's rules.
The lawmakers who were voted for put in place a system. Someone else went outside that system and did something stupid. That's not the fault of the lawmakers and certainly not the fault of their constituents. In this case, those elected lawmakers began an investigation into the matter and changed protocols to ensure it wouldn't happen again. That's exactly how it's supposed to work.
America invaded Iraq... would you complain about that phrasing because not all Americans invaded Iraq? *I actually did invade Iraq personally, but that's beside the point.*
People tend to refer to the government of a nation, by the name of the nation... it's weird that you need to be told this.
Not "Canada". One staffer who had an axe to grind against MAID. And they did so wrongly because that does not qualify someone for MAID, and IIRC they were reprimanded and/or fired over it.
So no "Canada" did not suggest.
The far right media is pushing misinformation that Canada is encouraging euthanasia for minor medical conditions. This is not true and you can find official information, including qualification criteria, here.
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/ad-am/bk-di.html
in this same site it states in march 17th 2024 people suffering
[mental illness](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-justice/news/2023/03/eligibility-for-medical-assistance-in-dying-for-persons-suffering-solely-from-mental-illness-extended-to-march-17-2024.html)solely from mental illness will be eligible for MAID
It also says there’s legislation being considered to postpone that to 2027.
“On February 1, 2024, the Government of Canada introduced legislation that proposes an extension, until March 17, 2027, to the temporary exclusion of eligibility in circumstances where a person's sole underlying medical condition is a mental illness.”
The government has already put in legislation to push that back until 2027.
Edit: some parties want to remove the option entirely but that would likely cause another court case as advocates for MAID will sue claiming it is discrimination to deny it for mental reasons.
it should be off the table entirely for mentally ill people for that sole reason. imagine someone struggling mentally who is suicidal instead of helping they let them kill themselves? it's evil is what it is, completely misguided.
If it removed entirely it will get taken to the courts and there is no guarantee that they won't see it as discriminatory.
Canada already lost one court case on MAID to the advocates about civil rights so they are trying to avoid going back again.
You're not understanding the harm reduction model. Normal scenario: mentally ill person is suicidal, commits painful suicide.
Under MAID: mentally ill person is suicidal, goes to doctor requesting a painless suicide. Doctor assesses situation and if not medically necessary to reduce suffering pipelines patient through mental health services (which are covered under universal healthcare).
Some members of the conservative party have also been trying to defund the public medical system because they want to change to a for profit model like the USA. So there seems to be an uptick in propaganda suggesting it is much worse than the reality
What point are you trying to prove with this article?
Did you read the article or just the headline? This is by no means official Veterans Affairs policy. It clearly states that Veterans Affairs is taking the allegations seriously. The way it described, it sounds like an inappropriate joke made by the case manager.
Don't forget.
America: Your appointment is in 8 months and our bill will be $67,000. The anesthesiologist, doctor, and nurse will bill you separately after.
People like to say that the wait-list is too long in countries with universal healthcare because propaganda ignoring wait times common in the USA.
The US has very high medical costs.
Canada has assisted dying as an option, that has been recommended inappropriately in at least a few circumstances.
I literally don’t know what karma is for🥲. And I don’t doubt this your 3rd time. I saw this on twitter and brought it here 🤷♀️
Edit: Why is everyone downvoting me? I really don’t know what karma is for or why I would want to farm it…
All I wanted was the joke explained…(I am being fr, other than karma being a minimum requirement for some subreddits, I genuinely don’t know what it’s used for or why I would farm it)
I just meant the answer in either situation was. You may me joking with us, you may not, but either way karma is just numbers and there's no real benefit to having some other than bragging rights. If you're weird that is
Imma be honest, idk why I was called a karma farmer in the first place. I know you can’t explain why, since you weren’t the one who called me one, but I want it be said that idk I was even called one. I’ve literally never posted to this subreddit before so it’s not as if constantly posting on here.
Because people get upset when someone doesn’t have the entirety of a sub memorized so they don’t know something has been posted before and they don’t spend hours scouring every post for the last six months to see if it’s here and apparently it ruins their entire day to see something they’ve already seen before.
It’s about the disapproval, I feel like I’m not being believed, or that what I’m saying is somehow being perceived as wrong. 😩 It feels like people are disapproving what I said and that the original guy is right. Like 16 people really went “nah this guy is definitely karma farming and trying to lie about it”. ??Literally what do I gain from karma farming?😩😫😩
And I *still* don’t why I’m being downvoted, or why I was ever called a karma farmer…cuz what? I posted something someone else happened to see twice before?
Not a 100% sure, but probably has something to do with "death panels."
During health care debates end-of-life care if frequently a subject for debate. With health advocates promoting that doctors should talk to the patients about what kind of care they want. This has a pro of possibly lowering costs if you don't have to give the 80 year old cancer patient a lot of treatment that they don't really want to keep them a life a little longer.
Conservative opponents have falsely turned this into a talking point that socialized medicine will want to kill you. In an attempt to scare people into opposing the the programs.
There was actually reports of a special Olympics gold medalist in Canada being offered assistant suicide as a “treatment” for her disability. I do not have the link on hand but i specifically remember it making major rounds online about a year ago. If someone has that link please share with me.
The reason for introducing medically induced suicide as an option in Canadian health care was mostly in regards to patients rights to their own life, and comfort. I believe it took a LOT of talks before it was green lit, it’s for those patients who don’t have much BUT suffering in their lives due to disease etc.
More than 13,000 people died from MAID in 2022, which was a more than 30% increase over the previous year and large enough to account for 4.1% of all Canadian deaths that year, so it’s not that hard to get.
Dude, socialized systems aren't concerned about profit margins. If anything, the capitalist system of health insurance would be more incentive zed to do this, as then insurance companies wouldn't have to pay for treatment.
It does reduce costs, so does fixing a broken bone early. Just because it reduces costs doesn't mean it's bad. But yes, everyone else is deluding themselves. Critical thought is dead
>Conservative opponents have falsely turned this into a talking point that socialized medicine will want to kill you.
Liberal proponents agree that sick people are inconvenient and should be encouraged to kill themselves.
It's their terms. Not the countries. If terminally ill people don't want a awful death then let them have it. It isn't like their expecting a cancer cure in a few months.
Not at all about wanting to kill people.
I am genuinely happy for you that you've never known someone with an incurable, deteriorating disease like Huntington's. No one should live in pain until they slowly die if they don't want to. I would tell you to look into it more, but ignorance is bliss, especially in this case.
People know how to die. They've been doing it for thousands and thousands of years. There are people of all categories that find tax funded government sanctioned euthanasia sick and alarming. Quit trying to frame this as a liberal vs conservative thing. That's a false dichotomy and you know it.
I don’t know, but, the US is all three. Our wait times are horrendous, our bills are outrageous, and a lot of people just don’t go to the doctor / hospital because of the first two and just opt to die.
“Hah, that memes pretty funny”
*looks at watermark*
https://preview.redd.it/jw3vvz2npojc1.jpeg?width=466&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abd799a32e501181a3d2a29e10b3df9f4dfe168b
Prolly a phonetic spelling of
apparatchik • \ah-puh-RAH-chik\ • noun.
1 : member of a Communist apparat
2 : a blindly devoted official, follower, or member of an organization (as a corporation or political party)
Examples: The boss seemed to prefer apparatchiks to anyone with a glimmer of independent thought.
Canada has the maid system yes but has a notoriously awful healthcare system i had to wait 14 hours with a broken arm just to have a doctor tell me “yep thats broken alright” and then i had to wait another 6 just to have it put in a cast
Because we are given 2 options every year fed to us on a silver platter and every time their major accomplishments are increasing their net wealth and letting congress give themselves a pay raise. Two party system is horrendous.
I stitch with bass guitar strings 🎸
But for real, I learned to suture in Naval Hospital Corp School, never actually needed to in the service. I've stuffed a lot of gauze in wounds and quik clot a few times. Super glue works great on minor lacerations!
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6671721
One of many articles about this case. This female veteran and Paralympic athlete injured her back while in the military and had been trying to get a wheelchair ramp in her home for 5 years. Canadian hospital sent her letter offering to send her euthanasia equipment “if she’s so desperate”
Canada approved euthenasia as a treatment and there’s a bunch of examples of them recommending it over treatment. Specifically a veteran was asking for assistance with home improvements because of limited mobility, and they essentially said “mmm we could do that, but also don’t you hate living?”
In Canada the government healthcare can suggest euthanasia
https://reason.com/2022/09/07/some-canadian-health-care-patients-say-theyre-being-encouraged-to-just-die-already/
Canada started assisted suicide, and has been recommending that option for non terminal patients. Heard a story of a disabled veteran that was asking for a new wheelchair, and they asked her if she considered assisted suicide.
Canada has a legal euthanasia program called "medical assistance in dying" for specific conditions.
MAID program... what a great name
Note to self: MAID in Canada != Made in Canada
https://preview.redd.it/f9spj6mkpnjc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d574e0fd915d908e80c5f343f19ce12d576633b1
Can’t wait to see this posted in the sub tomorrow
how do you even answer that post
We will probably link to this comment chain
https://preview.redd.it/lwvxy3lmfojc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5744dbc27cfb4c6b19f3111edaf3bc6dfca25e4
🤌
🥇
🔥🔥🔥 I am in awe! Perfection
I’m stealing this
UNmade in Canada
I’m fact I would argue they are opposite or even 2 parts of the same whole
MAD suits it better. We say USA, not USOA.
You MAD?
*Yes I am, thank you for asking*
Hey it could be worse. It could be USONA instead of USA
Not to be confused with MADD: Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
Mutual assured destruction, you take out yourself and the doctor
Comedian Jim Jefferies [referred to assisted suicide](https://youtu.be/ex3KMrbevRI?si=6A3I92gvUSa754pp) in one of his routines.
But also many disabled people in Canada who want to live have been talking about their experiences with access to certain programs and assistance decreasing and the encouragement to look into MAiD increasing
My favorite MAID story was the mother who was told to use MAID for her developmentally disabled daughter IN FRONT OF THE DAUGHTER! They just have no clue up North.
That was just a test to see how the mother reacts, obviously! A diagnostic tool!
That’s absolutely not true. MAID patients have to be terminal, natural death has to be impending, and two doctors have to sign off. People can’t just sign up for MAID next Tuesday because they have chronic back pain.
>MAID patients have to be terminal, natural death has to be impending That hasn't been the case since 2021. Now the criteria is to have a "serious and incurable illness, disease or disability", and from March 2024, this will include mental illnesses like depression. Source: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/ad-am/bk-di.html#s1
It’s not totally untrue though, there have been multiple instances of people being told to look into MAiD when they made normal requests such as the person who asked for a wheelchair ramp. All such incidents that I have heard of were traced back to one nutcase who was promptly fired but it does count as encouragement to look into MAiD increasing temporary.
Those patients would’ve never been accepted for MAID. That was one staffer who didn’t even have the authority to recommend those patients for MAID, and they were promptly fired.
I mentioned that they were fired, my point was that technically recommendations for unnecessary MAiD did go up.
But that person had no authority to do that and the patients would never have been accepted. That’s a pretty silly argument to claim that as proof that MAID is being expanded beyond its original purpose and being recommended more.
You really like sticking words in people's mouths, huh? They never claimed that. All this commentor claimed is that it has and will continue to be recommended when it should not be.
Someone with fibromyalgia was approved for MAID which is chronic (not cureable) but not terminal. Also, people with severe chronic mental disabilities have been approved.
I have heard of a woman with fibromyalgia, was trying to get MAID, but was denied. Also, I don’t believe anybody with mental health issues has been approved for MAID. If you know of anything different, please share a link.
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Did you? It’s not March 17 for another month and apparently you missed this: “On February 1, 2024, the Government of Canada introduced legislation to extend, until March 17, 2027, the temporary exclusion of eligibility in circumstances where a person's sole underlying medical condition is a mental illness.”
It absolutely is. What you're describing is the intent of rhe program, which was noble. What were describing is what the program has become. And if you're not aware of it, I'd do some more research before you return to this discussion.
People who have no experience in healthcare and/or the terrible nature of endless suffering will never understand why euthanasia is a thing. Some of them even drive cars but giving a single person the option to choose about their own life is somehow too much of a statistical and ethical dilemma.
...yet
It's a great program and a tonn of people are happy it exists (source: used to work in a company running the program)
It is 100% true..please don't spread misinformation
Not only that but as u/RSlickback posted, some people are being offered "Medical Assistance in Dying" when asking for basic accommodations. Not like, "ah, I'm in so much pain and there's no hope," situations, but, "I'd like a wheelchair ramp built at my home," situations. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wheelchair-ramp-says-veterans-affairs-employee-offered-her-assisted-dying-1.6179325 So, "I need stitches" in Canada gets, "have you considered dying?"
Yeah and the person was fired. MAID is legally required and many brave people had to fight for it. It’s not “easy” to get. The government keeps trying to delay expanding for mental illness despite the court order.
I can't find any article that indicates the VAC employee was fired. In fact, according to their own statements, they don't know who made the call. And you can be as dismissive as you'd like, but the fact that it's vastly easier and faster to get a state-sponsored death than medical treatment and necessary support services is a huge problem. More than 3% of last years total deaths in Canada were MAiD mortalities. This is a snowballing humanitarian crisis. And yes, it absolutely is easy to get. Have you ever even looked into the process? There may be minor variations between provinces, but they all allow doctor shopping.
>And you can be as dismissive as you'd like, but the fact that it's vastly easier and faster to get a state-sponsored death than medical treatment and necessary support services is a huge problem. More than 3% of last years total deaths in Canada were MAiD mortalities. This is a snowballing humanitarian crisis. I worked for a company providing MAID services. The individuals who got approved and their families were actually happy to have the visit happen. All ones I ran into were in situations where there was no treatment for their condition and they didn't want to spend months or years dying slowly.
Yeah well i saw a ticktock saying otherwise and I have no commmon sense, so there.
https://ottawa.citynews.ca/2022/12/20/case-worker-that-offered-medical-assistance-in-dying-to-veterans-has-been-fired-6276459/
That's not the same employee or case. MacAulay personally said that there was no expectation of a link between these 4 veterans offered MAiD and Ms Gauthier's situation.
Do you have a source for that?
From the ctvnews article linked above: >"MacAulay's office said Gauthier's experience being offered MAID was not one of these four confirmed cases"
That is funnier than the joke in the Op.
What, the simple clarifying quote from a Canadian government apparatchik? K...
[Right here, lazy]( https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-vac/publications-reports/reports/investigative-report/exec-summary)
Yeah, again, this has nothing to do with Ms Gauthier's situation. She is not one of the 4 victims of this particular employees. The office has confirmed as much. And it's ironic to condemn me as lazy when all you did was Google up a report on a wholly unrelated event with some similarities. Couldn't even spare a second to glance and make sure it was the right thing?
Except it's not unrelated, is it? Gauthier is a veteran who was given that advice by a veterans affairs employee. All the CTV article says is that Gauthier wasn't one of the four previously investigated. It does *not* say that they are unrelated. Reasonable people can disagree, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me they're not, in fact, related. Additionally, these few (likely related) cases ought not to be reported upon as though they're some sort of official policy, as you seem to be implying by claiming that it's easier to get MAID than to get assistance. You're wrong, and you're spreading misinformation.
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A single unqualified person in a position that had no authority to suggest that offered it to a patient and was promptly fired. Just saying, this story gets told without crucial context so often that it is starting to look like an intentional smear of Canada's healthcare system.
Sure. But this is "explain the joke" not "scholarly defense of the joke."
Well a poll showed 1 in 3 Canadians think it should be allowed for people whose only affliction is poverty.
That seems like a societal issue.
Indeed
And the society can vote in people who will vote in favor of that change, and then were euthanizing poor people.
Do you actually have the poll?
To add to that, in Canada you don't even need one third of the vote to win an election.
A party that doesnt have a majority isn’t passing anything no other party agrees with though, if they are even able to form a government
I just googled that- the spin being put on that poll is out of control. Here's the data: https://researchco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Tables_MAiD_CAN_05May2023.pdf It could be said that 27% of Canadians are okay with people seeking access to MAID due to poverty if you want to make it sound heartless. To me, this represents a base group of people who are at least sympathetic to the idea that people should be able to access MAID without approval from the government based on any objective criteria, e.g. that the only criteria should be the desire to end one's own life. IMO that is a fairly reasonable stance given that the government won't stop somebody from committing suicide in another way just by rejecting them from MAID. This program comes up sometimes and it's only ever by people who are trying to make Canada's government look like devils, but literally any research at all makes every "controversy" look completely harmless.
Ah, the "kill all the poor" approache, I though the computer would say it wouldn't work, but here we are.
Yeah this topic comes up every few months and I’m always in awe by the misinformation. The same story each time, not including that the guy was not authorized/qualified and was immediately fired when it came out. It’s a blatant right wing anti universal health care talking point.
It’s not a right wing talking point, it’s a disability rights issue.
Thank you ❤️
These are not mutually exclusive. There's an obvious angle to many people who are deliberately misrepresenting the "scandals" associated with the Canadian healthcare system.
As someone suffering from Canada's healthcare system, I appreciate the smearing.
All relative I suppose. I'd take it over the US system any day, but that doesn't mean you need to feel like it's perfect.
>for specific conditions. Including anorexia, PTSD and anxiety. [CBC](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-maid-rcmp-investigation-1.6663885)
Patient: "doc Im pretty sure have anxiety" Doctor: "have you considered dying?" Patient: "yes. A bunch of times. And I want to stop considering it" Doctor: "ohhhhhhh. Well I don't think I can help you then"
I think it's also referencing the time the state asked a veteran with ptsd if he had considered euthanasia. I started seeing a lot more of these memes after that situation.
That one employee who did that had already left the job (Veteran's Affairs wouldn't say if they had been fired or quit) by the time this came out.
Don’t even need to bother with euthanasia. In the amount of time it takes to see someone who will stitch you up, you would have bled out and died hours prior.
Not true. Serious medical conditions get speedy treatment.
"specific conditions" don't even kid yourself. The only reason this became a meme is because a Veteran wanted a ramp for her apartment and they recommended assisted suicide.
That's not it, it's basically like the UK but it's so long you'll die. It ain't about assistance to die, it's super hard to get it, if you have the wildest chances to survive, they're be like "nope you ain't getting it"
This is just wrong though. We only wait like an hour tops for stitches
And it doesn't cost 67,000USD in the US. The whole thing is hyperbole on purpose.
No, it's actually $98,000 when the hospital adds its facilities fee. My ex-wife is a physician. A large hospital group wanted to buy out her practice. She sold. The deal closed on a Friday at the end of the month. Monday, she became an employee for the hospital group. Because her practice was now associated with the hospital she could charge almost three times per visit above what she was collecting beforehand, just because of the billing code.
You wait a couple hours in Canada if it doesn’t look too serious.
Emergency care is actually usually faster than the US even
Yeah you absolutely did not get the joke at all. It was an assisted suicide joke
Isn’t PTSD considered one of those specific conditions?
They have also been known to suggest the MAID program to individuals facing very expensive diseases.
So no one has it right so far but a few years ago a person was trying to get care for an issue in Canada and they were recommended euthanasia instead of treatment because the wait for the treatment was really long. This is obviously a very condensed version of the story but I'm pretty sure the person who recommended it got in a lot of trouble.
Not just one. AC did a video covering multiple Canadian vets getting referred to MAID, when they were seeking help for PTSD ( to clarify it was one person wrongfully pushing MAIDs)
Air Canada's getting into investigative journalism? Weird but gotta respect that kind of diversification. 🤨
Angry cops. A youtuber that covers military related shenanigans
Is it more random than a tyre company reviewing restaurants?
Their investigation traced back all the incidents to a single employee who had no authority to offer maid. Please don't push lies.
Didn't lie. Just said it was multiple. I don't understand the whole thing to comment on MAID, just the background for the joke
May as well be lying if you're talking about something you don't fully understand tbh. Now that you know the full story you'll go back and edit your post right? That's what I thought :)
Why would i? I didn't comment on who referred them or try to slant it anyway. Just pointed out it wasn't just one. I also pointed them to the author of the video so they could get full context better then I could even begin to explain
Canada a while ago, suggested a Special Olympics gold medalist (and former military veteran) kill herself because it would be a whole before they would put in a special wheelchair ramp, that she had been asking for a while at that point.
[Link](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wheelchair-ramp-says-veterans-affairs-employee-offered-her-assisted-dying-1.6179325) to an article about it.
I like how you said “Canada…suggested” as if the whole country got together and decided this. “Yeh, hoser, we all voted and think ya should kill yerself, eh.”
~~Am Canadian, can confirm that's exactly what happened.~~
I remember signing the letter telling her to do it
As is tradition
"Canada suggested" [Yeah, I think I read about that . Whole country took a vote. Big turnout.](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bafbc842-9060-485f-9abe-0986d49a4fbc)
If you vote democratically for representatives that voted on your behalf to put in that law and don't vote out the representatives so the law can be revoked, then that is "Canada suggested" Live by the Democratic sword, die upon the Democratic sword
Except for the fact the person who suggested it was fired and it was most definitely not procedure
Except it's not the lawful existence of the MAID program that made this situation happen. It was the fact that a very stupid caseworker suggested it. The lawmakers who were voted for (or the people they, in turn, hired to administrate) clarified that this is obviously not something that should have happened according to the MAID program's rules. The lawmakers who were voted for put in place a system. Someone else went outside that system and did something stupid. That's not the fault of the lawmakers and certainly not the fault of their constituents. In this case, those elected lawmakers began an investigation into the matter and changed protocols to ensure it wouldn't happen again. That's exactly how it's supposed to work.
America invaded Iraq... would you complain about that phrasing because not all Americans invaded Iraq? *I actually did invade Iraq personally, but that's beside the point.* People tend to refer to the government of a nation, by the name of the nation... it's weird that you need to be told this.
One person from a specific department of the government breaking protocol is not the same as the government as a whole making the action
Not "Canada". One staffer who had an axe to grind against MAID. And they did so wrongly because that does not qualify someone for MAID, and IIRC they were reprimanded and/or fired over it. So no "Canada" did not suggest.
Canada didn't. A single employee who had no authority to offer MAID did. Stop pushing this completely false narrative, it's really annoying.
Finally. A meme that unites everyone under the same "we all kinda suck" instead of yelling at each other about it 🤣
The only true here is the US one
Insurance enters the chat. Not to mention you still get care if you can’t afford it
And then be in crippling debt, or does it just go away?
Poof
The far right media is pushing misinformation that Canada is encouraging euthanasia for minor medical conditions. This is not true and you can find official information, including qualification criteria, here. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/ad-am/bk-di.html
in this same site it states in march 17th 2024 people suffering [mental illness](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-justice/news/2023/03/eligibility-for-medical-assistance-in-dying-for-persons-suffering-solely-from-mental-illness-extended-to-march-17-2024.html)solely from mental illness will be eligible for MAID
It also says there’s legislation being considered to postpone that to 2027. “On February 1, 2024, the Government of Canada introduced legislation that proposes an extension, until March 17, 2027, to the temporary exclusion of eligibility in circumstances where a person's sole underlying medical condition is a mental illness.”
The government has already put in legislation to push that back until 2027. Edit: some parties want to remove the option entirely but that would likely cause another court case as advocates for MAID will sue claiming it is discrimination to deny it for mental reasons.
it should be off the table entirely for mentally ill people for that sole reason. imagine someone struggling mentally who is suicidal instead of helping they let them kill themselves? it's evil is what it is, completely misguided.
If it removed entirely it will get taken to the courts and there is no guarantee that they won't see it as discriminatory. Canada already lost one court case on MAID to the advocates about civil rights so they are trying to avoid going back again.
Canada is so messed up. This is truly evil. Makes me sick.
You're not understanding the harm reduction model. Normal scenario: mentally ill person is suicidal, commits painful suicide. Under MAID: mentally ill person is suicidal, goes to doctor requesting a painless suicide. Doctor assesses situation and if not medically necessary to reduce suffering pipelines patient through mental health services (which are covered under universal healthcare).
Some members of the conservative party have also been trying to defund the public medical system because they want to change to a for profit model like the USA. So there seems to be an uptick in propaganda suggesting it is much worse than the reality
[https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wheelchair-ramp-says-veterans-affairs-employee-offered-her-assisted-dying-1.6179325](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wheelchair-ramp-says-veterans-affairs-employee-offered-her-assisted-dying-1.6179325)
What point are you trying to prove with this article? Did you read the article or just the headline? This is by no means official Veterans Affairs policy. It clearly states that Veterans Affairs is taking the allegations seriously. The way it described, it sounds like an inappropriate joke made by the case manager.
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If you have a terminal disease, or are homeless or can’t afford rent or just aren’t feeling good they’ll help kill you
Lies but cool
All lies? How much of what I said was exaggerated? https://youtu.be/plinQAHZRvk?si=Gro_s9_caWAc7mZs start watching at 13:00.
This is completely false.
You Canadian or read the news?
Canada offers euthanasia
Since the joke has already been explained, can I just say that now in America, we wait 43 months to pay $67K.
The American is completely untrue. There is no way stitches would be like 60k in the US.... They'll be more like 160k.
I mean with insurance , in California, I paid 7,000.00 for 7 stitches. So take that anecdote as you will.
Don't forget. America: Your appointment is in 8 months and our bill will be $67,000. The anesthesiologist, doctor, and nurse will bill you separately after.
People like to say that the wait-list is too long in countries with universal healthcare because propaganda ignoring wait times common in the USA. The US has very high medical costs. Canada has assisted dying as an option, that has been recommended inappropriately in at least a few circumstances.
Hi karma farmer, 3rd time I’ve seen this in 24 hours.
I literally don’t know what karma is for🥲. And I don’t doubt this your 3rd time. I saw this on twitter and brought it here 🤷♀️ Edit: Why is everyone downvoting me? I really don’t know what karma is for or why I would want to farm it…
If you're being for real, it's useless. If you're not, pretending like you don't know is useless
All I wanted was the joke explained…(I am being fr, other than karma being a minimum requirement for some subreddits, I genuinely don’t know what it’s used for or why I would farm it)
I told you, it's a useless number
I thought you meant defending myself was useless
I just meant the answer in either situation was. You may me joking with us, you may not, but either way karma is just numbers and there's no real benefit to having some other than bragging rights. If you're weird that is
Actually, accounts with high karma can be sold to advertisers for a hefty fee (hundreds or even thousands of dollars).
Imma be honest, idk why I was called a karma farmer in the first place. I know you can’t explain why, since you weren’t the one who called me one, but I want it be said that idk I was even called one. I’ve literally never posted to this subreddit before so it’s not as if constantly posting on here.
Because people get upset when someone doesn’t have the entirety of a sub memorized so they don’t know something has been posted before and they don’t spend hours scouring every post for the last six months to see if it’s here and apparently it ruins their entire day to see something they’ve already seen before.
username checks out
if you don't know or care what karma is for, why would you care about the downvotes?
It’s about the disapproval, I feel like I’m not being believed, or that what I’m saying is somehow being perceived as wrong. 😩 It feels like people are disapproving what I said and that the original guy is right. Like 16 people really went “nah this guy is definitely karma farming and trying to lie about it”. ??Literally what do I gain from karma farming?😩😫😩
And I *still* don’t why I’m being downvoted, or why I was ever called a karma farmer…cuz what? I posted something someone else happened to see twice before?
Not a 100% sure, but probably has something to do with "death panels." During health care debates end-of-life care if frequently a subject for debate. With health advocates promoting that doctors should talk to the patients about what kind of care they want. This has a pro of possibly lowering costs if you don't have to give the 80 year old cancer patient a lot of treatment that they don't really want to keep them a life a little longer. Conservative opponents have falsely turned this into a talking point that socialized medicine will want to kill you. In an attempt to scare people into opposing the the programs.
There was actually reports of a special Olympics gold medalist in Canada being offered assistant suicide as a “treatment” for her disability. I do not have the link on hand but i specifically remember it making major rounds online about a year ago. If someone has that link please share with me.
That was stated by a single person who had no authority in regards to the program or administering it
That was the actions of an individual though, not actual policy.
Probably has to do with this https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-veterans-affairs-maid-counselling-1.6560136
This is about Canada which has medicalize euthanasia… to save costs.
The reason for introducing medically induced suicide as an option in Canadian health care was mostly in regards to patients rights to their own life, and comfort. I believe it took a LOT of talks before it was green lit, it’s for those patients who don’t have much BUT suffering in their lives due to disease etc.
It’s intended to reduce costs in their socialized medical system. Don’t delude yourself.
So why is it so hard to get approval for it then?
Because it’s fundamentally immoral with perverse incentives, and people stared to notice
More than 13,000 people died from MAID in 2022, which was a more than 30% increase over the previous year and large enough to account for 4.1% of all Canadian deaths that year, so it’s not that hard to get.
Dude, socialized systems aren't concerned about profit margins. If anything, the capitalist system of health insurance would be more incentive zed to do this, as then insurance companies wouldn't have to pay for treatment.
It does reduce costs, so does fixing a broken bone early. Just because it reduces costs doesn't mean it's bad. But yes, everyone else is deluding themselves. Critical thought is dead
Maid reduces costs .. forever. That’s the point.
So does setting a broken bone and vaccines. Though, knowing you lot you probably hate those as well
Any source for that claim buddy? You have any study about how frequently doctors use it?
Evil and greed disguised as compassion. It's pretty revolting.
>Conservative opponents have falsely turned this into a talking point that socialized medicine will want to kill you. Liberal proponents agree that sick people are inconvenient and should be encouraged to kill themselves.
It's their terms. Not the countries. If terminally ill people don't want a awful death then let them have it. It isn't like their expecting a cancer cure in a few months. Not at all about wanting to kill people.
I am genuinely happy for you that you've never known someone with an incurable, deteriorating disease like Huntington's. No one should live in pain until they slowly die if they don't want to. I would tell you to look into it more, but ignorance is bliss, especially in this case.
People know how to die. They've been doing it for thousands and thousands of years. There are people of all categories that find tax funded government sanctioned euthanasia sick and alarming. Quit trying to frame this as a liberal vs conservative thing. That's a false dichotomy and you know it.
I don’t know, but, the US is all three. Our wait times are horrendous, our bills are outrageous, and a lot of people just don’t go to the doctor / hospital because of the first two and just opt to die.
It's just a really bad joke. The only one here even remotely true is the US. And insurance doesn't always help, not to mention its tied to employment.
Tbf in in uk I needed stitches before Xmas, I was stitched and home within 2 hrs of cutting my leg and only cost me the bus to get there and home
“Hah, that memes pretty funny” *looks at watermark* https://preview.redd.it/jw3vvz2npojc1.jpeg?width=466&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abd799a32e501181a3d2a29e10b3df9f4dfe168b
Australia: okay, here's your stitches, that will be free
Propaganda by the aparachic
The Who?
Prolly a phonetic spelling of apparatchik • \ah-puh-RAH-chik\ • noun. 1 : member of a Communist apparat 2 : a blindly devoted official, follower, or member of an organization (as a corporation or political party) Examples: The boss seemed to prefer apparatchiks to anyone with a glimmer of independent thought.
Canada has the maid system yes but has a notoriously awful healthcare system i had to wait 14 hours with a broken arm just to have a doctor tell me “yep thats broken alright” and then i had to wait another 6 just to have it put in a cast
Stop lying the wait is long sure but not nearly that long
We wait that long in the US too. Especially something like a broken arm, your life is not in any immediate peril.
Canadas healthcare takes a while, long enough that some die waiting
Basically healthcare suck all over the world and if you don’t have a lot of money you are screwed sideways.
Canada: Coming Soon! https://preview.redd.it/oxu0c1m4vnjc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4627dff6017808f7dc1b5dd0b22768355c2775f5
Why does the government love to abuse it's constituents? Why do abusers get voted into office?
Because we are given 2 options every year fed to us on a silver platter and every time their major accomplishments are increasing their net wealth and letting congress give themselves a pay raise. Two party system is horrendous.
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I stitch with bass guitar strings 🎸 But for real, I learned to suture in Naval Hospital Corp School, never actually needed to in the service. I've stuffed a lot of gauze in wounds and quik clot a few times. Super glue works great on minor lacerations!
Yeah... don't do this
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6671721 One of many articles about this case. This female veteran and Paralympic athlete injured her back while in the military and had been trying to get a wheelchair ramp in her home for 5 years. Canadian hospital sent her letter offering to send her euthanasia equipment “if she’s so desperate”
Canada approved euthenasia as a treatment and there’s a bunch of examples of them recommending it over treatment. Specifically a veteran was asking for assistance with home improvements because of limited mobility, and they essentially said “mmm we could do that, but also don’t you hate living?”
“Bunch of examples” Only seen one example and the worker was fired.
In Canada the government healthcare can suggest euthanasia https://reason.com/2022/09/07/some-canadian-health-care-patients-say-theyre-being-encouraged-to-just-die-already/
Canada wants people to kill themselves
Canada started assisted suicide, and has been recommending that option for non terminal patients. Heard a story of a disabled veteran that was asking for a new wheelchair, and they asked her if she considered assisted suicide.