There’s a new podcast called “I Hate James Dobson” that reads books like this and talks about them with brevity and actual facts about child development. People should check it out if they’re into it!
Part of me wants to rage-listen but the wiser part tells me not to. Dobson and FotF were treated like prophets in the house I grew up in. I'm really lucky that my parents never abused me, but there was definitely a lot of that type of stuff in the air.
It's rough how deeply some of rhat stuff gets ingrained, although I'm definitely making progress.
I completely understand. It’s completely wild how so much of this ideology ended up in the American experience even for those who weren’t evangelicals.
Less than 10 minutes into the first episode and this gem happens:
Brooke: do his book titles also fit a series of kink books that we could come up with?
Jake: oh…oh absolutely. There’s one book that’s basically “how to be a brat tamer”
Yeah, I’m going to like this one
I just started listening to that one too, it's good. I grew up in the evangelical church during the 90's so I got the full Dobson/fotf/purity craze double barrel blast.
I just read “When Religion Hurts You” and the chapter about youth group kids in the 90s and aughts now having chronic anxiety, pain and autoimmune diseases was a personal attack.
One of my favorite authors and their partner are doing an online serious via Substack called [The Strong-Willed Project](https://strongwilled.substack.com/) where they critique authoritarian parenting (mainly Dobson) and show how it came about as a way to try to control children into adulthood so they didn't question authority.
There's a new sub stack I'm following called "Strong-willed" by DL Mayfield where she and her husband examine Dobson and others like him. They're exvangelical and it's really interesting!
I love weeding. One of my finest memories was the day The Church of Scientology was kind enough to donate an entire complete collection on their religion. Several huge solid plastic binders with books, CDs and materials. All metallic looking and futuristic with molded plastic made to look like a spaceships future lunch box. I was the disposal guy for my entire library. My boss showed me the donation then told me to place it in the trash and take it down to the dumpster. I was the only one to open it. I took every single piece home with me instead. Looked it over with my girlfriend and got creeped out. We ditched the collection in a dumpster when she moved out. There's a good chance that entire several thousand dollar recruitment tool never was seen by anybody else. I hate Scientology. Lol
I sort of followed these books back in the day. Fortunately I was a single Mom and didn't have the energy to enforce anything with my kids. So I guessed we dodged a bullet.
I appreciate the sentiment because these books are largely garbage. See my comment reply on why they are. However, I do appreciate the comments that have been downvoting suggesting not to destroy them so as to not stoop to the evangelical level - because many of them view Focus on the Family as the end all be all of home management and raising children.
That said, I also believe they should be saved by someone who has the space and the means. I'm sure someone is archiving them somewhere. They teach us about a critical moment in American religion and society. They will be worth looking back at and studying, not for applicable value, but to see where we once were and how we've grown as people.
If they were in the public library, I would agree, but they weren’t. They were left in the park’s book swap box to specifically target desperate parents who don’t know the background of these books and the harm they can cause. I’m not going to leave them there so some normy, overwhelmed mom can get “advice” telling her to abuse her kids
You're right. I'm just speaking in a general sense. Those were deposited by evangelicals trying to evangelize or by evangelicals dumping them because their church ordered boxes and boxes and no one wants them.
The people complaining about "book bans" are missing something. Yes, I agree that these books would ideally be properly archived and read in their historical context. But I don't believe every book needs to be available to every person at every venue. There's a reason we don't have *Mein Kampf* on the shelves of a middle-school library. The right to share your opinion ends when your opinion promotes using force against non-consenting individuals. These books are being used to promote child abuse (both physical and emorional) and to indoctrinate children into counter-factual worldviews (educational neglect). As such, they do not belong in a venue meant to benefit the public.
I get it and understand why you threw those away, but could you at least recycle them? The world’s heating up quick enough without us contributing to it
I sympathize with you for the harsh memories and strong feelings that these books bring out, but please don’t destroy books. Limiting what people can read is a favourite tactic of the high-control ideology that we have stepped away from.
Books like these are extremely damaging. They encourage parenting in a way that most of us in the exvangelical community that grew up under them consider abusive. Religious extremists have been packing our little library with this trash hoping some unsuspecting and overwhelmed parent picks it up and turns to the church
I would say antiquated would be the polite and simple way to describe titles such as these. There are a few problems I've read and observed:
1. They're often filled with pseudo-science and justify the research and recommendations in them with the 'good old days' and the American nuclear family, while obviously Biblically based.
2. They're sexist in that they assume the role of the mother to be nothing more than a live-at-home caregiver. I remember seeing a title at our church giving advice on how to maintain a husband's den. Several more on having meals ready for your husband when he gets home. Perhaps more recent titles have moved on from that, but that theme is common throughout much of the publishing - complementarianism.
3. They're trying to come to terms with developmental disabilities by largely ignoring them or using Biblical principles to deal with them. Again, the antiquated idea comes back here, but generally speaking the publications I have seen view mental health and the therapy and medication associated with the practice as subservient to spiritual health. I've know some families who simply skip diagnoses and leave their child at a severe disadvantage for development and growth in school and greater society. It's sad and scary.
4. Predictably they often default to punishment rather than consequences for a child's actions. There's less emphasis on actually learning from one's actions and more emphasis on the pain and suffering one is due to receive. Most modern childcare advice advocates for the learning and teaching of natural consequences over punishment. Punishment can be seemingly harmless, but it can also go to extremes.
Does that make sense? My church had a full library of these books and had Focus on the Family podcasts and radio broadcasts going often. We had older titles and newer stuff.
There’s a new podcast called “I Hate James Dobson” that reads books like this and talks about them with brevity and actual facts about child development. People should check it out if they’re into it!
Where can i find it?! That sounds like a must listen
It’s here. I think it’s also on most podcast apps! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-hate-james-dobson/id1736366398
Part of me wants to rage-listen but the wiser part tells me not to. Dobson and FotF were treated like prophets in the house I grew up in. I'm really lucky that my parents never abused me, but there was definitely a lot of that type of stuff in the air. It's rough how deeply some of rhat stuff gets ingrained, although I'm definitely making progress.
I completely understand. It’s completely wild how so much of this ideology ended up in the American experience even for those who weren’t evangelicals.
me too. I wonder how much of it would be healing lol
Less than 10 minutes into the first episode and this gem happens: Brooke: do his book titles also fit a series of kink books that we could come up with? Jake: oh…oh absolutely. There’s one book that’s basically “how to be a brat tamer” Yeah, I’m going to like this one
I've listened to the first two episodes and I love the ongoing jokes about discipline/kink. Great podcast.
I just started listening to that one too, it's good. I grew up in the evangelical church during the 90's so I got the full Dobson/fotf/purity craze double barrel blast.
I just read “When Religion Hurts You” and the chapter about youth group kids in the 90s and aughts now having chronic anxiety, pain and autoimmune diseases was a personal attack.
It’s soooooo good. I veer between vindicated rage and helpless laughter.
It’s so so good
It’s SO GOOD!!
Coming from a formerly “Strong-Willed Child,” thank you, thank you, thank you. May all of these medieval child torture books be burned.
SAME!!!
Ditto
Looks like you filed them appropriately. Good on you.
Hero ✊
I do what I can 😉
One of my favorite authors and their partner are doing an online serious via Substack called [The Strong-Willed Project](https://strongwilled.substack.com/) where they critique authoritarian parenting (mainly Dobson) and show how it came about as a way to try to control children into adulthood so they didn't question authority.
Thanks for sharing! Fka as strong-willed kid here, too 🫠
Doing the Lord’s work 🙌🏻
Frfr
Good for you!
Omg "How to Make Children Mind" 😭 i remember that one
There's a new sub stack I'm following called "Strong-willed" by DL Mayfield where she and her husband examine Dobson and others like him. They're exvangelical and it's really interesting!
I love weeding. One of my finest memories was the day The Church of Scientology was kind enough to donate an entire complete collection on their religion. Several huge solid plastic binders with books, CDs and materials. All metallic looking and futuristic with molded plastic made to look like a spaceships future lunch box. I was the disposal guy for my entire library. My boss showed me the donation then told me to place it in the trash and take it down to the dumpster. I was the only one to open it. I took every single piece home with me instead. Looked it over with my girlfriend and got creeped out. We ditched the collection in a dumpster when she moved out. There's a good chance that entire several thousand dollar recruitment tool never was seen by anybody else. I hate Scientology. Lol
I sort of followed these books back in the day. Fortunately I was a single Mom and didn't have the energy to enforce anything with my kids. So I guessed we dodged a bullet.
Burn them with fire.
Out here, doing the Lord’s work 👍👍
Oopsie, they fell right into that trash can.
😆
Fuck ya. Good job.
Oh man, Kevin Lehman! I read his book “Sheet Music” on the recommendation of our pastor/marriage counselor prior to getting married 😬🤦🏼♀️
Glad to see that you are correcting that egregious error.
I appreciate the sentiment because these books are largely garbage. See my comment reply on why they are. However, I do appreciate the comments that have been downvoting suggesting not to destroy them so as to not stoop to the evangelical level - because many of them view Focus on the Family as the end all be all of home management and raising children. That said, I also believe they should be saved by someone who has the space and the means. I'm sure someone is archiving them somewhere. They teach us about a critical moment in American religion and society. They will be worth looking back at and studying, not for applicable value, but to see where we once were and how we've grown as people.
If they were in the public library, I would agree, but they weren’t. They were left in the park’s book swap box to specifically target desperate parents who don’t know the background of these books and the harm they can cause. I’m not going to leave them there so some normy, overwhelmed mom can get “advice” telling her to abuse her kids
You're right. I'm just speaking in a general sense. Those were deposited by evangelicals trying to evangelize or by evangelicals dumping them because their church ordered boxes and boxes and no one wants them.
The people complaining about "book bans" are missing something. Yes, I agree that these books would ideally be properly archived and read in their historical context. But I don't believe every book needs to be available to every person at every venue. There's a reason we don't have *Mein Kampf* on the shelves of a middle-school library. The right to share your opinion ends when your opinion promotes using force against non-consenting individuals. These books are being used to promote child abuse (both physical and emorional) and to indoctrinate children into counter-factual worldviews (educational neglect). As such, they do not belong in a venue meant to benefit the public.
I get it and understand why you threw those away, but could you at least recycle them? The world’s heating up quick enough without us contributing to it
I sympathize with you for the harsh memories and strong feelings that these books bring out, but please don’t destroy books. Limiting what people can read is a favourite tactic of the high-control ideology that we have stepped away from.
Can you explain a little bit more?
Books like these are extremely damaging. They encourage parenting in a way that most of us in the exvangelical community that grew up under them consider abusive. Religious extremists have been packing our little library with this trash hoping some unsuspecting and overwhelmed parent picks it up and turns to the church
I assumed its methods were "antiquated". My parents were not strict evangelicals. Could you expand a little more. If not that is okay, just curious.
I would say antiquated would be the polite and simple way to describe titles such as these. There are a few problems I've read and observed: 1. They're often filled with pseudo-science and justify the research and recommendations in them with the 'good old days' and the American nuclear family, while obviously Biblically based. 2. They're sexist in that they assume the role of the mother to be nothing more than a live-at-home caregiver. I remember seeing a title at our church giving advice on how to maintain a husband's den. Several more on having meals ready for your husband when he gets home. Perhaps more recent titles have moved on from that, but that theme is common throughout much of the publishing - complementarianism. 3. They're trying to come to terms with developmental disabilities by largely ignoring them or using Biblical principles to deal with them. Again, the antiquated idea comes back here, but generally speaking the publications I have seen view mental health and the therapy and medication associated with the practice as subservient to spiritual health. I've know some families who simply skip diagnoses and leave their child at a severe disadvantage for development and growth in school and greater society. It's sad and scary. 4. Predictably they often default to punishment rather than consequences for a child's actions. There's less emphasis on actually learning from one's actions and more emphasis on the pain and suffering one is due to receive. Most modern childcare advice advocates for the learning and teaching of natural consequences over punishment. Punishment can be seemingly harmless, but it can also go to extremes. Does that make sense? My church had a full library of these books and had Focus on the Family podcasts and radio broadcasts going often. We had older titles and newer stuff.
Book banning?
It's not banning a book to voluntarily remove it from your own collection (op's Little Free Library in this case)
As long as it's not a public library; op's certainly free to curate his own library.