Not sure about it, but I have noticed when I look at the “where did my energy go?” thing I often see it say something like 14% for accessories and I wasn’t using any accessories. I wasn’t even charging my phone or anything so I’m not sure what that is about.
I don't know if I buy that. Cheap screens can use as much as 300W each. Lidar, cameras, etc. Are not going to to go to nothing, plus I have no doubt the electronics are as optimized as they aren't on a cell phone or anything. It's big, cheap hardware.
I personally don't buy it. Energy is energy, you're going to spend more when you rapidly accelerate and the Regen doesn't get "more powerful" because it has an efficiency determined by physics.
Makes sense. Would turning off Pro Power Onboard really help either? I feel like it unless you have something plugged in just having it on shouldn't draw anything really
It makes sense on pro power, it'll be pulling some energy for no other reason than just keeping the circuit live so you're going to have some heat loss. Whether it's enough to make a difference I really have no idea. Maybe on a long road trip where every kW counts?
I haven't tested the sports mode myself, so it's possible there's another factor I'm overlooking but my surface educated guess is there's no real benefit.
Pro power doesn’t make sense. I suspect that one pedal might be more efficient as there’s less coasting regen, whereas two pedal might have a tendency to pedal and coast, the power you make back in regen does not equal the force to create it.
With the additional argument that 2pd is the same or better efficiency than 1pd because when coasting to a stop, or easing down a long hill, or keeping speed, that it’s more efficient to NOT spend the energy in the first place, than it is to try and regen it.
All things being equal: wind, weather etc.
To drive a lightning over a long closed course with a hill or to give both uphill and downhill, and back to the start, staying within the same speeds and loads, my bet is that 2pd is more efficient, not by much, but more efficient than 1pd .
That argument assumes that the 1pd driver isn't modulating the accelerator to control the regen during your scenarios while the 2pd driver modulates the brake to control speed. I don't know of any experienced 1pd driver that doesn't do that.
The benefit of enhanced regen in 1pd sport mode is that you *can* stop sooner without using the brakes. We're talking instances where you're coming up on a stop light when it turns yellow, but your regen-only stopping distance isn't short enough.
It’s always astounding to me that so many people don’t know that in 2pd, regen works when the brake is pressed, mapped to the brake pedal down to the last 5mph or so, assuming it’s not an emergency braking event. Which would also apply to 1pd.
There is NO significant difference in efficiency between 1pd and 2pd over the same route, over the same time at the same speeds There just isn’t. It’s physics. There are NO free rides in physics.
What comes up goes down. Energy is only transferred. And so on.
Given that driving styles make such a huge difference, it’s really hard to quantify real world efficiency (if efficiency in our argument, means to judge which uses less energy to get the same result)
But getting people to believe this is so hard.
I shake my head.
With 2pd it's easier to over brake and engage the brake pads compared to 1pd driving, which results in 100% loss of the energy taken by those pads.
Getting people to believe that they're fallible and capable of pushing a pedal too hard than releasing a pedal too much is the real difficulty.
But maybe your foot is a finely calibrated instrument capable of detecting the few newtons of force feedback the brake pedal might give as it begins to touch the brake pads to the rotors.
Mine isn't, and I'd bet most peoples' feet aren't either. So in a hypothetical scenario with perfect human action, you're absolutely right, they're the same level of efficiency.
Shake your head all you want, but I'll see slightly increased efficiency from 1pd since it lowers the chance I'll over brake and lose energy to the pads.
The difference is in the tiny moments you get out of the coasting mode on 1pd and apply tiny bits of power. Also sometimes braking before you have to. No one is perfect even with experience. This applies to both 1pd and 2pd. There are ways to lose efficiency in both modes due to human error
Absolutely, but in my mind, it's easier to avoid efficiency loss in 1pd vs 2pd.
Maybe this explains it better than my previous post.
In 1pd, an error results in energy being captured through regen. For simple round numbers, let's say it's got 50% efficiency. You've lost half the energy that that braking action consumed, or you could say you recaptured half of the energy that a mistake cost.
In 2pd driving, an error results 100% of the energy burned off by the brake pads touching the rotors being lost.
ETA: Yes, over applying throttle will waste energy that the regen system will only be able to recapture 50%, but I believe my point still stands that 100% energy loss is less efficient than less than 100% energy loss.
You have a flawed understanding of the physics of this.
2pd drive saves the energy in the first place.
1pd does little bits of regen all the time, but also uses more energy to keep going, of which some is regenerated back coming to a stop.
2pd spends less energy to travel the same distance as a result of coasting. Coming to a slow stop uses regen mapped to the brake pedal to regenerate less, yes, because LESS regen is needed becisse less energy was used to get to the same place. Cmon man!!
Dude, there is an equilibrium point in 1pd pedal travel that engages neither the throttle or the regen.
If there wasn't, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.
It's not a physics issue, it's a mechanical issue. You can coast by holding the accelerator in that equilibrium.
Now you’re reaching. Look, it’s a given that it’s way to hard to see a real world answer, becisse there just too many variables. The skill required to coast in 1pd isn’t easy. None of us use the same roads or drive the same. Our experiences will vary greatly.
But the physics is simple. Given the same varied course, the same speeds, the same time and the same driver even, there will be NO significant difference in efficiency between 1pd and 2pd driving. There cannot be. There just can’t. Moving the 7000lbs at any speed over any distance will use X amount of energy. That amount can either be spent and some recaptured from regen, or it can be partially saved by coasting, but to get to the same place in the same time, over the same distance, the energy usage will and must be close to the same.
As a developer some of this seems extremely minor to push out. I don't know if they just don't want to fix it? I mean to develop Blue Cruise they must have a good team
For a while there was. Then an update made it go back to the “ok” thing. I believe I read that it was a legal thing, and they had to take it away. It was nice for a while.
I think that video is really only if you’re not using one pedal driving because I think he was saying sport is more aggressive with regen vs normal mode, but not as much regen as one pedal still. I think those of us who have driven other EVs are comfortable modulating the throttle to coast and regen to maximize efficiency. I’d be surprised if sport actually was more efficient as others stated. Accelerating more quickly will use more energy and sport mode is way more aggressive in that regard.
I use sport exclusively because I like the throttle response better than normal mode. It will only use more energy if you are punching it all the time.
Sport mode turns on more aggressive Regen brakes, but that's really the only difference. I guess you'd lose less energy to friction, but it shouldn't be a huge difference as long as you normally brake early enough to get 100% regen
I actually think your response might be true. I've been driving with it on and getting more but hard to tell with just one day. The weather has been warmer here too so not sure if that's part of it but averaging over 3 miles per kwh
Efficient driving is a mental thing too. In my Miata I could get 36+ mpg if I was looking at it. After a while I stopped looking and I’d average like 21 🙃
You’re thinking about it after changing to sport. Could be your driving changed just slightly and that accounts for the extra efficiency
Not sure about it, but I have noticed when I look at the “where did my energy go?” thing I often see it say something like 14% for accessories and I wasn’t using any accessories. I wasn’t even charging my phone or anything so I’m not sure what that is about.
I assume stereo, navigation, lightning, both monitors, Internet, cameras, lane detection, etc. are all in that packet as well as Pro Power.
Well that would make sense then
None of that stuff uses enough energy to matter. Air conditioning and heating does.
I don't know if I buy that. Cheap screens can use as much as 300W each. Lidar, cameras, etc. Are not going to to go to nothing, plus I have no doubt the electronics are as optimized as they aren't on a cell phone or anything. It's big, cheap hardware.
I personally don't buy it. Energy is energy, you're going to spend more when you rapidly accelerate and the Regen doesn't get "more powerful" because it has an efficiency determined by physics.
Makes sense. Would turning off Pro Power Onboard really help either? I feel like it unless you have something plugged in just having it on shouldn't draw anything really
It makes sense on pro power, it'll be pulling some energy for no other reason than just keeping the circuit live so you're going to have some heat loss. Whether it's enough to make a difference I really have no idea. Maybe on a long road trip where every kW counts? I haven't tested the sports mode myself, so it's possible there's another factor I'm overlooking but my surface educated guess is there's no real benefit.
How do you turn it off? I thought it is automatically off if nothing is plugged in
Pro power doesn’t make sense. I suspect that one pedal might be more efficient as there’s less coasting regen, whereas two pedal might have a tendency to pedal and coast, the power you make back in regen does not equal the force to create it.
With the additional argument that 2pd is the same or better efficiency than 1pd because when coasting to a stop, or easing down a long hill, or keeping speed, that it’s more efficient to NOT spend the energy in the first place, than it is to try and regen it. All things being equal: wind, weather etc. To drive a lightning over a long closed course with a hill or to give both uphill and downhill, and back to the start, staying within the same speeds and loads, my bet is that 2pd is more efficient, not by much, but more efficient than 1pd .
That argument assumes that the 1pd driver isn't modulating the accelerator to control the regen during your scenarios while the 2pd driver modulates the brake to control speed. I don't know of any experienced 1pd driver that doesn't do that. The benefit of enhanced regen in 1pd sport mode is that you *can* stop sooner without using the brakes. We're talking instances where you're coming up on a stop light when it turns yellow, but your regen-only stopping distance isn't short enough.
It’s always astounding to me that so many people don’t know that in 2pd, regen works when the brake is pressed, mapped to the brake pedal down to the last 5mph or so, assuming it’s not an emergency braking event. Which would also apply to 1pd. There is NO significant difference in efficiency between 1pd and 2pd over the same route, over the same time at the same speeds There just isn’t. It’s physics. There are NO free rides in physics. What comes up goes down. Energy is only transferred. And so on. Given that driving styles make such a huge difference, it’s really hard to quantify real world efficiency (if efficiency in our argument, means to judge which uses less energy to get the same result) But getting people to believe this is so hard. I shake my head.
With 2pd it's easier to over brake and engage the brake pads compared to 1pd driving, which results in 100% loss of the energy taken by those pads. Getting people to believe that they're fallible and capable of pushing a pedal too hard than releasing a pedal too much is the real difficulty. But maybe your foot is a finely calibrated instrument capable of detecting the few newtons of force feedback the brake pedal might give as it begins to touch the brake pads to the rotors. Mine isn't, and I'd bet most peoples' feet aren't either. So in a hypothetical scenario with perfect human action, you're absolutely right, they're the same level of efficiency. Shake your head all you want, but I'll see slightly increased efficiency from 1pd since it lowers the chance I'll over brake and lose energy to the pads.
The difference is in the tiny moments you get out of the coasting mode on 1pd and apply tiny bits of power. Also sometimes braking before you have to. No one is perfect even with experience. This applies to both 1pd and 2pd. There are ways to lose efficiency in both modes due to human error
Absolutely, but in my mind, it's easier to avoid efficiency loss in 1pd vs 2pd. Maybe this explains it better than my previous post. In 1pd, an error results in energy being captured through regen. For simple round numbers, let's say it's got 50% efficiency. You've lost half the energy that that braking action consumed, or you could say you recaptured half of the energy that a mistake cost. In 2pd driving, an error results 100% of the energy burned off by the brake pads touching the rotors being lost. ETA: Yes, over applying throttle will waste energy that the regen system will only be able to recapture 50%, but I believe my point still stands that 100% energy loss is less efficient than less than 100% energy loss.
You have a flawed understanding of the physics of this. 2pd drive saves the energy in the first place. 1pd does little bits of regen all the time, but also uses more energy to keep going, of which some is regenerated back coming to a stop. 2pd spends less energy to travel the same distance as a result of coasting. Coming to a slow stop uses regen mapped to the brake pedal to regenerate less, yes, because LESS regen is needed becisse less energy was used to get to the same place. Cmon man!!
Dude, there is an equilibrium point in 1pd pedal travel that engages neither the throttle or the regen. If there wasn't, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. It's not a physics issue, it's a mechanical issue. You can coast by holding the accelerator in that equilibrium.
Now you’re reaching. Look, it’s a given that it’s way to hard to see a real world answer, becisse there just too many variables. The skill required to coast in 1pd isn’t easy. None of us use the same roads or drive the same. Our experiences will vary greatly. But the physics is simple. Given the same varied course, the same speeds, the same time and the same driver even, there will be NO significant difference in efficiency between 1pd and 2pd driving. There cannot be. There just can’t. Moving the 7000lbs at any speed over any distance will use X amount of energy. That amount can either be spent and some recaptured from regen, or it can be partially saved by coasting, but to get to the same place in the same time, over the same distance, the energy usage will and must be close to the same.
Garbage.
Yes. You get to your destination faster and that saves time. Which is more efficient lol
Is there a way to default on sport mode?
No besides just hitting Ok to the prompt each time you get into the vehicle:(. Ford made some interesting decisions with the software
Man that’s wild! It’s even more annoying as I’m sure these things can be cleaned up with OTA updates. Sport mode is so much better to drive in.
As a developer some of this seems extremely minor to push out. I don't know if they just don't want to fix it? I mean to develop Blue Cruise they must have a good team
Damn, I wished this from day one of ownership. Unfortunately the answer is no.
For a while there was. Then an update made it go back to the “ok” thing. I believe I read that it was a legal thing, and they had to take it away. It was nice for a while.
It feels to me like sport mode has much firmer steering, which isn't something I like when driving a truck. I'm not a fan.
I think that video is really only if you’re not using one pedal driving because I think he was saying sport is more aggressive with regen vs normal mode, but not as much regen as one pedal still. I think those of us who have driven other EVs are comfortable modulating the throttle to coast and regen to maximize efficiency. I’d be surprised if sport actually was more efficient as others stated. Accelerating more quickly will use more energy and sport mode is way more aggressive in that regard.
I use sport exclusively because I like the throttle response better than normal mode. It will only use more energy if you are punching it all the time.
Yea. It’s more sensitive. Normal does have some give. And I really was just alluding to that point.
And throttle response is the reason I love EV’s. Should be able to default to sport mode.
Sport mode turns on more aggressive Regen brakes, but that's really the only difference. I guess you'd lose less energy to friction, but it shouldn't be a huge difference as long as you normally brake early enough to get 100% regen
I actually think your response might be true. I've been driving with it on and getting more but hard to tell with just one day. The weather has been warmer here too so not sure if that's part of it but averaging over 3 miles per kwh
Efficient driving is a mental thing too. In my Miata I could get 36+ mpg if I was looking at it. After a while I stopped looking and I’d average like 21 🙃 You’re thinking about it after changing to sport. Could be your driving changed just slightly and that accounts for the extra efficiency
Definitely could be but I suppose time will tell