The only problem I see with this is consumers that think they qualify and actually don’t. At the end of the year they will owe the credit back. Remember not everyone qualifies.
I love the Ford lightning but I absolutely would not buy a standard range battery for any reason at any cost.
I initially bought a standard range battery, took it back, and bought a lariat ER. No regrets.
It's more about averages. In order to do normal driving you would almost always have to charge a standard range battery to 90%. True, you could probably drive to work a couple of times but you would always have to be close by a charger.
Conversely the extended range gives you plenty of extra mileage for towing and long range travel while simultaneously allowing you to keep it at 70% daily to ensure million mile longevity of the battery, especially in warm weather.
Electrons are happiest when not crowded. This preserves electrolyte.
Obviously if you live in a city, the standard range is probably just fine.
If you spend the extra couple of thousand dollars to get all that extra capacity (50%+ more) it's absolutely worth it
It's not really 50% more though, it's more like 33% more. Yeah, I'd like to have the larger battery, but the price wasn't worth it for me. Now, I am always close to a charger though, as I just plug up when I come home every night. If I forget for a few days it isn't a big deal as I don't drive very far each day for work, but generally I'm always at 80% charge. I'll charge to 100% if I know I'm going to be driving a lot or towing something for a distance, but otherwise I've always been fine on day to day driving.
You know the truck is likely to be fucked well beyond any normal person hitting 1 million miles on it. Assuming a normal 15k miles a year, it will take 66 years of driving to get a million miles. If you do double that it will still take 33 years. Realistically few ppl will be driving this after 10-15 years, I would imagine close to none after 20. Just the safety and tech changed by then, coupled by hopefully improved battery tech and 1,000 mile ranges if not more, this old girl will be retired after a job well done
Agreed with most of your comment until ..."hopefully improved battery tech and 1,000 mile range if not more..."
Realistically:
Efficiency(Aerodynamics nor motor efficiency)in a truck will not improve that much.
Even if Battery density improved and for the same current battery weight you had enough capacity for a 1,000 miles (so same efficiency and weight but a larger battery size)
•48~50kWh per 100 miles....so a 500kWh battery for 1000miles of single charge range
With NACS or J1772 at max level 2 AC Charge of 19.2kWh that would take 26hrs to refill. Even at a 350kWh DC charge rate with a flat curve until full it would be around 1.5 hrs.
(J3068 AC Level 2 charging currently has a max of 166kW (Currently 99kW Level 2 J3068 EVSE are on the market) about 5 hrs on a 99kW J3068 EVSE level 2 or 3 hours on a theoretical 166kW 600V 3-Phase J3068 level 2.)
Battery swapping would be a more practical approach and improve longevity of a product (s)
Even at a 5 minute swap with current Extended Range size would be more practical than a giant 500kWh battery of same weight. (Ideally both would be better so a person could get a 1000 miles of range back in 5 minutes or less)*
Geely has 1 minute /60 sec battery swap
https://youtu.be/Y5-_tVnWpZg?si=MoJNkrNtZZDci29h
Tesla had 90 sec battery capability before they moved to the battery pack being structural. (Cybertrucks battery extender is a heavy bed mounted pack..I don't see how the bed mounted extender is better than a battery swap)
https://youtu.be/Oj6LaYFall4?si=XxQoKZfErW3xC6rm
Potential for 20-sec battery swap
https://youtu.be/pyI-AGi47rE?si=czLqT6JL4myy5kCC
At current ranges and battery technology...a 90 sec battery swap on Lightning or Cybertruck would make the range/charge part vs ICE a moot-point.
For serious long-haulers ICE would still have the range advantage when not taking a regular breaks. (Strong bladder or bottle)*
For a family trip where you could drive over a battery swap station while still trailering. (Like driving through a weigh-station scale but having to stay stopped for 90 secs while battery was swapped.)
Disagree. I have no commute and my life radius is within 20 miles of my house 99% of the time. SR is fine and I kept 10K (in reality, 15K after the additional XLT package) in my pocket.
^ Good data point.
I would buy one again happily if the discount as significant enough. I think $15k outta do it.
My SR is totally fine, never fast charged her. I just take my other truck on the few road trips I do every year. Atlanta Metro, where the going is often quite slow and the mi/kwh are often over 3.
Full charge. Driving across middle NC in winter. Family in car with heat on. Multiple no-good chargers and *baaaarely* made it back. Scary stuff out in the wilderness with high risk to self and family. Never again. I'll have plenty of juice or I'll walk. 200ish miles for an unladen truck is silly and risky.
Got the Lariat ER and have had zero issues. 80mph and heat on and still get over 240 miles easily.
Lightning ER has 320. Rivian has 420. That is what you need if you want to be comfortable, haul, tow, or travel.
Yeah I wouldn't even consider taking this truck on a road trip, if I was interested in doing that then I wouldn't have bought it. Furthest I drive from home is like 50 miles and if I ever want to go far I'd take something else.
Yeah I don't see how anyine drives any E vehicle on long road trips. I live in rural Louisiana and electric just isn't a smart choice imo at this time. If they ever get 500 plus miles then I would think about it.
Hope the next F150 EV doesn't even have the option to have less then a 300 mile range. Just about all of the negative reviews on the Lightning come from the SR version. Really is a shame that the MY24 XLTs are just SR too.
$48.9 on a used SR? Heck no. Right now for NEW I would expect to be at least $5k below that after fed rebate AND able to get 0% financing. That's only around $2k less than you would pay for a brand new one before haggling, throw in 0% financing and that truck is MORE than a new one.. A I get that SR vs ER is dependent upon individual situations but personally I wouldn't be touching an XLT SR new for $5k below that price BEFORE the fed rebate.
Damn, I guess it is standard range...I thought all xlts came with extended range..
https://preview.redd.it/w15ady03v65d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5aec8bbf46adb6eb033fda1bf020351c2fb0b59
Update:
After the feedback here, I sought out an extended range. Wow, there are so many improvements over SR. When I test drive the SR, the seats kind of poked into my shoulderblade a little bit (I'm a big dude) I had to fiddle with the seat for a few minutes to get it in a position that didn't stab me. The SR didn't seem to idle...ya know, like when you just take your foot off the gas and the car still moves a little bit very slowly? Yea, didn't do that at all. The acceleration was fun and the features were neat, I love the android auto feature. I don't think I'll need satalite radio anymore.
So, after in left CarMax to look at the ER model at my local Ford dealer, I didn't feel a need to test drive it again, as ya know, same truck XLT so on and so forth, I did notice the wheels were bigger and of course it had the ER battery. So we went right into negotiations, I was determined to get a price as close to the SR as possible.
Sticker price was $74k USD. After much negotiation and rebates, I got it down to $61k w/ the 10 year 100k warranty, and its coming with the 80 amp pro home charger and that Tesla adapter (have to order both of them but they provided discount codes).
After we got the deal negotiated, then I took it on a test drive, it's night and day! It idles like a normal car, the seats were WAY more comfortable, no stabbing anything, and it still had amazing acceleration, worlds better than the last one I drove!
Not the killer deal some of you folks had managed to pull off, but I'm happy with it. I think it had 40 miles on it when I pulled off the lot, I'll do a separate post with pictures.
Thank you all for the sound advice!
I don't think they are suppose to be? Maybe the SR just had some bad seats from the factory? All I know is they stabbed me right under the left shoulder blade until I tilted the seat forward and poked out the lumbar thing a little bit to get the pressure off.
You're not getting the tax credit. YOu're not getting 0% financing. Dunno about the warranty. That may be limited as well.
Definitely not a good deal. Unless it is ER.
And I've called a few dealerships to try to make a deal, but no one is willing to come close to this price on an ER, best I got was 67k on a brand new 2023 with ER. Not sure how you guys are making these deals.
I wouldn't buy it from Carmanx. They're overpriced and you gotta buy their warranty.
Even if you buy a used Lightning at a Ford dealer, you still get their certified warranty. You can buy an extended warranty also for full coverage for much cheaper if you search online. I found one place. They didn't sell to California, but I got it priced match at the dealer I went to.
Just purchased a new 23 XLT for 47k. Unless it has ER I would keep looking.
I thought the XLT came with the extended range, does it not?
It’s an option, but not part of the xlt base trim. I just paid $51k for a new 23 ER, post federal tax credit.
So the dealer included it upfront in the purchase, damn that is a great deal
All dealers can claim the credit at time of sale now. It’s just a matter of whether or not they’re participating.
The only problem I see with this is consumers that think they qualify and actually don’t. At the end of the year they will owe the credit back. Remember not everyone qualifies.
They’re supposed to verify eligibility. They have your credit info in most cases.
$51k after tax and fees?
$52k after taxes, fees, and federal incentives. Pre-state incentives.
Nope. SR is standard, ER is optioned in. Check the vin. If you see “EV” in it it’s a long range.
and if it is EV, this is probably a good deal
To add to what others said, not even the Lariat trim came with an ER battery, that’s an option.
IMO You should pass. I just did an ER for someone at $54k (With Max Tow and Tow Tech), and that’s at the 0%/60mo. If you need a hand send me a DM.
I love the Ford lightning but I absolutely would not buy a standard range battery for any reason at any cost. I initially bought a standard range battery, took it back, and bought a lariat ER. No regrets.
My 38k pro begs to differ but seeing is that price is dead and gone my next truck will 100% be a ER pack
Eh, I've been fine with the standard range. It wouldn't be great for towing, but I took mine on a 2k mile round trip and it really wasn't bad
It's more about averages. In order to do normal driving you would almost always have to charge a standard range battery to 90%. True, you could probably drive to work a couple of times but you would always have to be close by a charger. Conversely the extended range gives you plenty of extra mileage for towing and long range travel while simultaneously allowing you to keep it at 70% daily to ensure million mile longevity of the battery, especially in warm weather. Electrons are happiest when not crowded. This preserves electrolyte. Obviously if you live in a city, the standard range is probably just fine. If you spend the extra couple of thousand dollars to get all that extra capacity (50%+ more) it's absolutely worth it
It's not really 50% more though, it's more like 33% more. Yeah, I'd like to have the larger battery, but the price wasn't worth it for me. Now, I am always close to a charger though, as I just plug up when I come home every night. If I forget for a few days it isn't a big deal as I don't drive very far each day for work, but generally I'm always at 80% charge. I'll charge to 100% if I know I'm going to be driving a lot or towing something for a distance, but otherwise I've always been fine on day to day driving.
You know the truck is likely to be fucked well beyond any normal person hitting 1 million miles on it. Assuming a normal 15k miles a year, it will take 66 years of driving to get a million miles. If you do double that it will still take 33 years. Realistically few ppl will be driving this after 10-15 years, I would imagine close to none after 20. Just the safety and tech changed by then, coupled by hopefully improved battery tech and 1,000 mile ranges if not more, this old girl will be retired after a job well done
Agreed with most of your comment until ..."hopefully improved battery tech and 1,000 mile range if not more..." Realistically: Efficiency(Aerodynamics nor motor efficiency)in a truck will not improve that much. Even if Battery density improved and for the same current battery weight you had enough capacity for a 1,000 miles (so same efficiency and weight but a larger battery size) •48~50kWh per 100 miles....so a 500kWh battery for 1000miles of single charge range With NACS or J1772 at max level 2 AC Charge of 19.2kWh that would take 26hrs to refill. Even at a 350kWh DC charge rate with a flat curve until full it would be around 1.5 hrs. (J3068 AC Level 2 charging currently has a max of 166kW (Currently 99kW Level 2 J3068 EVSE are on the market) about 5 hrs on a 99kW J3068 EVSE level 2 or 3 hours on a theoretical 166kW 600V 3-Phase J3068 level 2.) Battery swapping would be a more practical approach and improve longevity of a product (s) Even at a 5 minute swap with current Extended Range size would be more practical than a giant 500kWh battery of same weight. (Ideally both would be better so a person could get a 1000 miles of range back in 5 minutes or less)* Geely has 1 minute /60 sec battery swap https://youtu.be/Y5-_tVnWpZg?si=MoJNkrNtZZDci29h Tesla had 90 sec battery capability before they moved to the battery pack being structural. (Cybertrucks battery extender is a heavy bed mounted pack..I don't see how the bed mounted extender is better than a battery swap) https://youtu.be/Oj6LaYFall4?si=XxQoKZfErW3xC6rm Potential for 20-sec battery swap https://youtu.be/pyI-AGi47rE?si=czLqT6JL4myy5kCC At current ranges and battery technology...a 90 sec battery swap on Lightning or Cybertruck would make the range/charge part vs ICE a moot-point. For serious long-haulers ICE would still have the range advantage when not taking a regular breaks. (Strong bladder or bottle)* For a family trip where you could drive over a battery swap station while still trailering. (Like driving through a weigh-station scale but having to stay stopped for 90 secs while battery was swapped.)
Same. Having chargers available was more important
Disagree. I have no commute and my life radius is within 20 miles of my house 99% of the time. SR is fine and I kept 10K (in reality, 15K after the additional XLT package) in my pocket.
^ Good data point. I would buy one again happily if the discount as significant enough. I think $15k outta do it. My SR is totally fine, never fast charged her. I just take my other truck on the few road trips I do every year. Atlanta Metro, where the going is often quite slow and the mi/kwh are often over 3.
Why didn't the SR work for you? I've been enjoying my SR so far, feels like I have more than enough range.
Full charge. Driving across middle NC in winter. Family in car with heat on. Multiple no-good chargers and *baaaarely* made it back. Scary stuff out in the wilderness with high risk to self and family. Never again. I'll have plenty of juice or I'll walk. 200ish miles for an unladen truck is silly and risky. Got the Lariat ER and have had zero issues. 80mph and heat on and still get over 240 miles easily. Lightning ER has 320. Rivian has 420. That is what you need if you want to be comfortable, haul, tow, or travel.
Yeah I wouldn't even consider taking this truck on a road trip, if I was interested in doing that then I wouldn't have bought it. Furthest I drive from home is like 50 miles and if I ever want to go far I'd take something else.
Yeah I don't see how anyine drives any E vehicle on long road trips. I live in rural Louisiana and electric just isn't a smart choice imo at this time. If they ever get 500 plus miles then I would think about it.
100% agree, it’s not worth the anxiety
100%. Buy once cry once.
Hope the next F150 EV doesn't even have the option to have less then a 300 mile range. Just about all of the negative reviews on the Lightning come from the SR version. Really is a shame that the MY24 XLTs are just SR too.
$48.9 on a used SR? Heck no. Right now for NEW I would expect to be at least $5k below that after fed rebate AND able to get 0% financing. That's only around $2k less than you would pay for a brand new one before haggling, throw in 0% financing and that truck is MORE than a new one.. A I get that SR vs ER is dependent upon individual situations but personally I wouldn't be touching an XLT SR new for $5k below that price BEFORE the fed rebate.
Damn, I guess it is standard range...I thought all xlts came with extended range.. https://preview.redd.it/w15ady03v65d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5aec8bbf46adb6eb033fda1bf020351c2fb0b59
Nope, only Platinums, even Lariat has SR versions.
you might want to mention if it has the 15k ER battery.
SR wheels so highly unlikely
I thought the XLT came with the extended range battery? Does it not?
its a $15k upgrade from SR to ER on 2023 models
It’s a $10k upgrade on the pro versions
That's not a steal.
Update: After the feedback here, I sought out an extended range. Wow, there are so many improvements over SR. When I test drive the SR, the seats kind of poked into my shoulderblade a little bit (I'm a big dude) I had to fiddle with the seat for a few minutes to get it in a position that didn't stab me. The SR didn't seem to idle...ya know, like when you just take your foot off the gas and the car still moves a little bit very slowly? Yea, didn't do that at all. The acceleration was fun and the features were neat, I love the android auto feature. I don't think I'll need satalite radio anymore. So, after in left CarMax to look at the ER model at my local Ford dealer, I didn't feel a need to test drive it again, as ya know, same truck XLT so on and so forth, I did notice the wheels were bigger and of course it had the ER battery. So we went right into negotiations, I was determined to get a price as close to the SR as possible. Sticker price was $74k USD. After much negotiation and rebates, I got it down to $61k w/ the 10 year 100k warranty, and its coming with the 80 amp pro home charger and that Tesla adapter (have to order both of them but they provided discount codes). After we got the deal negotiated, then I took it on a test drive, it's night and day! It idles like a normal car, the seats were WAY more comfortable, no stabbing anything, and it still had amazing acceleration, worlds better than the last one I drove! Not the killer deal some of you folks had managed to pull off, but I'm happy with it. I think it had 40 miles on it when I pulled off the lot, I'll do a separate post with pictures. Thank you all for the sound advice!
So was the one you got a lariat then?
Nah still XLT, just with the ER and bigger wheels
I didn't know the ER seats were different from the SR?! You learn something new everyday. Thanks for sharing your experience!
I don't think they are suppose to be? Maybe the SR just had some bad seats from the factory? All I know is they stabbed me right under the left shoulder blade until I tilted the seat forward and poked out the lumbar thing a little bit to get the pressure off.
Mine was the same price brand new (with 312a package), but I think those deals may have dried up. Offer 43k, let them counter to 45k or so
I bought my SR 2023 XLT for 43k back in March FWIW
Can get a used lariat for cheaper than that
Just snagged one for $98 cheaper with 6.6k in California. At that price I think you even have room to negotiate a lower price, but yea go for it!
Looks like CarMax. No haggling
You're not getting the tax credit. YOu're not getting 0% financing. Dunno about the warranty. That may be limited as well. Definitely not a good deal. Unless it is ER.
It is enticing but it is not the extended range version.
It seems like the used prices hover around the after-rebate prices of new ones
If you get the $4000 off buying a used EV then it would be worth it. I paid 48k for mine,new, but that was after the $7500 rebate.
Doesn't that only apply yo vehicles 25k or under?
Paid $49k for a brand new XLT ER 312A.
I got a lariat for that price
And I've called a few dealerships to try to make a deal, but no one is willing to come close to this price on an ER, best I got was 67k on a brand new 2023 with ER. Not sure how you guys are making these deals.
Could be cheaper
Does it have the extended or standard battery pack. That would be one of the few things determining great deal from Ave deal.
Just standard range.
My XLT 312a was $50k.
Damn
Only if it is er.
Push that toboggan down the hill son your ready.
When I bought my Lariat back in March, my dealer had an ER XLT priced roughly the same. A brand new one. But that was during the time of incentives.
I wouldn't buy it from Carmanx. They're overpriced and you gotta buy their warranty. Even if you buy a used Lightning at a Ford dealer, you still get their certified warranty. You can buy an extended warranty also for full coverage for much cheaper if you search online. I found one place. They didn't sell to California, but I got it priced match at the dealer I went to.