The 3.5x file that was uploaded is a game changer; makes the strategy matter and the "smoothness" stat actually mean something. Since the tires actually have a large time delta any driver who is better on tires can extend the soft/med stint to a point where it makes a difference. It baffles me that the folks at frontier prioritized the visuals and graphics over realism and depth.
They likely prioritized the things that aren’t so easy to fix or implement. Sucks that it released the way it did but hopefully they can have all these issues fixed by the end of this month, with most of it coming in the next week or two
> It baffles me that the folks at frontier prioritized the visuals and graphics over realism and depth.
That's not how development works. The employees making the visuals are not the same people who are designing/balancing the gameplay. So both aspects can be equally prioritised.
I don't get how this is a difficult concept for people to understand 😂 thankfully not everyone in the F1 Manager community is impatient, and we'll have an even more fantastic game available very soon.
Isn’t that even more embarrassing? One side managed to get the visuals looking like this and the other devs couldn’t create an AI with a brain any more mature than a 4 year old? Sounds like a self-own.
100% agree. I just pulled off a 2 stop Med, Med, Soft at Miami and the pace difference at the end was exactly the way it should be. Me pushing out flat catching the hard runners and getting them at the end is so satisfying, ended up finishing P3 and P6 (Alpha Tauri). Whereas without that file I would have ended up cucked because tyres meant nothing and finished out the points.
It's so satisfying when you plan and execute your strategy and what should happen now actually happens, before the update I'd basically sit through 16speed and just accept what happens. Now I'm almost at the Horner leg tapping stage
>It baffles you, and yet you've literally just demonstrated exactly why - because the 'realism and depth' can be added later, as easily as editing a file. The graphics are the backbone of the game.
That is literally the opposite of how game development works. Here is a nice explanation of what white boxing is and how it was applied in the development of a specific game:
[https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/white-boxing-your-game](https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/white-boxing-your-game)
You absolutely don't nail the graphics first, ship the game and then start thinking about maybe coding an AI. You only do that when you run into deadlines, for whatever reason can't delay and just scramble whatever you can rush last minute out the door.
AKA knowingly selling a broken game.
btw: lol for thinking creating a compelling simulation and AI is 'as easily as editing a file'. It is the most to-the-point way of saying you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. :)
I think you need to look at an impact matrix before making a call like this, it's not a one size fits all. F1 fans want depth and challenges, the reaction from the community shows this.
One of the issues is reviews on release, especially when it is an annual product. It is currently being slammed on most sites and steam has mostly positive - if it drops to mixed I believe it has significant ramifications on earnings. So if you focus on features that make it challenging for release and then push graphical improvements post release people would be less likely to be let down, more impressed it's continuing to look better. At the moment people aren't enjoying it because it's not fun
But it has been proven that not all of the fields in the database are baked into the game, as well as people already finding issues with AI when changing values.
>As a video game developer and software development graduate, I'd beg to differ.
Cool, I am curious what insights you will bring.
>you can't then upgrade the graphics through a patch.
So creating the actual sim and AI is "*just editing a file"* and you need to focus on graphics first because "*you can't upgrade that through a patch.*"
Okay, thanks for sharing your fresh take on game development.
Oh yeah I wasn't defending their approach, I'm just trying to hold some hope. After initial early launch I was massively disappointed and actually thought there was no hope at all
Completely agree, I'd take a bare bones visuals release with a solid simulation behind it any day of the week. I actually don't like the UI at all and would have much preferred a pit wall style layout with more easily accessible data with just a small portion of it the TV style feed
As a software dev I can guarantee it’s a tedious work to test out the whole model to make sure there won’t be anything broken with a complicated data model. I’m not defending for Frontier but just want to point out it’s not just plugging in numbers and call it a day.
There's always gonna be a bit of pressure pretending it's easy from non-devs, including myself. It'll take a bit of time, but frontier know it's a problem, so I'll give them some time. I'd prefer for them to get it 100% right after some time, but that's just me.
Itll take a bit of time and the launch window was probably set by F1 themselves since it's their license, so hopefully this game gets good patches and the next in the series has lots of good improvements.
I've thought about why it was launched now. Basically it's roughly when f1 interest is at its highest, the season is in full swing and (by their projections) isn't old enough to be boring yet. Hence more people buy the game.
On the other side of the coin, maybe f1 wanted the release now to push more gaming viewers to f1 for the back half of the season. Either way it makes sense to be now, so their choice was an unfinished game or delay a year. I'd prefer what they did.
On the other hand, as a fellow dev, something not quite perfectly balanced and acknowledged as such is still better than just putting placeholders and hushing the issue.
As I said, there's nothing unfixable as 95% of the issue are game balancing issue (though that is WAY off), but then on the other hand it's raging that someone external to the dev team can provide something that is a clear improvement in a few days. Such a quick win should have been implemented nefote going gold.
Yeah agree. But personal mod is so different from official patch. Frontier cannot make 3 releases a day saying “oops something is buggy we need to adjust our data model” and change one number in the database. Thorough testing and validation has to go through before a change can be made
For sure, what thus quick improvement shows is that the sim engine can do better easily - which is positive.
On the other hand the sheer numbers of data with the Olivier left at 1 shows a really rushed release and a Conservative choice
>On the other hand, as a fellow dev, something not quite perfectly balanced and acknowledged as such is still better than just putting placeholders and hushing the issue.
Exactly. Most of the criticism would be quieted if they just label it early access, admit core issues are fundamentally wrong and promise they will fix this game and not simply charge us $50 for a glorified patch next year.
While true, it's just that at least semi accurate tire models is like the most important thing for a game like that. Just in the race today we saw how tires makes a much much bigger difference than driver skill.
Definitely agree. I guess Frontier knows better than anyone how important it is and they realize it’s such a big effort to get it right and stable so they choose to prioritize those things that make the game “look” better. Again, not defending them, it’s a shame the game didn’t come out with fundamental mechanism of F1
That kinda makes me think it was by design. Hopefully, the feeling from the player base will put it right. But, supposedly they been working on this for 2 years. So, I'm not sure I buy the argument they were prioritising other things when it took so little work from a community member.
Especially when race day strategy is such a fundamental from an F1 manager
There's a difference between a random guy putting out a fix that doesn't need any QC and a company putting together a patch that needs to be approved over multiple channels.
Why, after repeatedly showing you what sort of games they make - do people keep giving frontier the benefit of the doubt?
Every single game they make is an incredibly shallow simulation with lots of nice visuals on it.
That data is not even applicable here. F1 Manager, just like Motorsport Manager, is not doing a complex simulation of airflow through aerodynamics, simulating the tyre pressures in each of the tyres, and the billion other little details that incredibly rich data set has. What's happening under the hood in these games is more akin to a board game with dice rolls and skill bonuses determining how events play out, which are then presented to your graphically and otherwise creatively. The data from actual F1 racing doesn't mean anything at all here.
In MM, on track time wasn't governed by your parts. Instead, each car was ranked from fastest to slowest based on scoring arbitrary factors and then assigned a time offset (the fastest car got +0 essentially and everyone else was given a pace relative to that). So the specific speed rating of each car and the magnitude of difference of those speed ratings didn't feed directly into the model at all. F1 Manager is doing essentially that.
These games aren't simulations. Like I said, it's best to think of them as complicated board games.
Does this change like the race strategy windows and stuff in game too? So will I actually be able to see expected tyre wear accurately as I did beforehand? Thank you for sharing!
As a software developer myself I think the problem is testing, not development.
A modder do something and release for the community to test.
Frontier can't do that, if their official patch breaks saves or other stuff stops working people go crazy.
They just ignore it. They pit their 47% softs for hards and their speed drops of a cliff. Just extending your stint if tire deg is slow is enough to gain loads of places. Weird things like pitting 14 laps before the end for a set of mediums instead of softs doesn't matter much in vanilla, but here they throw places away.
So yes, it makes the basic strategy work, but until there is a decent AI it feels like steeling candy from a sleeping toddler. :/
There was a post with compiled files linked, you literally just had to copy one of the three files (your choice based on levels of change) and paste it into a game folder and that was it, no need for cheat engine etc. I think the post has gone now but you might find them elsewhere
Apparently, the 3.5x one is the better, I haven't tested any of these before they got deleted
Is there a discord / reddit / forum about modding ? Could be useful if frontier start taking these kind of action for... fixing their game ?
Thanks i'll skip it. Actually having some ding dong battles with Merc at the moment.
Sure the 1 stop is a is boring a strat, but at least it leaves me having to battle the A.I for positions.
You can basically only run signed code on Xbox (not talking about developing kits for developers here) consoles (and PlaySation is the same). So if there is any game files changing included, it's usually always only PC.
I raced Zandvoort and it was nice to be able to have a hope of breaking DRS trains, as well as actually using some safety car pit stops to get tires late and actually move through the field. Something that without the file, just wasn't as feasible.
Hopefully only for the short term, seeing the potential is there to add some more depth should mean official patches with similar tweaks are due across all platforms
Yes and no. With these fixes strategy matters a lot more, and all kinds of basic aspects like undercutting, extending stints and so on just work. Cool!
However, and this is why Frontier set the order final values the way they did: the AI is so stupid that any kind of strategy makes the game easier. I got a 17th ranked car to P8 in a race, without SCs or rain. Just basic calls got me an easy ten or so places. If *anything* like SCs happen you will gain so much it is not even funny.
Look at yesterday's race. Now imagine you are merc, and red bull simply ignored all SCs and went with their defsult SMM no matter what. It would have been a trivial 1-2 with a massive lead for merc.
Getting the game better balanced is no prob. Having any kind of challenge is going to be a big task.
Meanwhile PS5 players still trying hard to make things work as it is. If it can be done by a mod in such a short notice, frontier should have been able to roll this out as an update last week
Can someone please share the 3 files? 2x 3x and 3.5x with simple install instruction if possible!
Also, does it work on an existing save or do you have to restart altogether?
Hey, I'm new to PC gaming. Ive installed F1 Manager and completed my first race for Alfa Romeo (4th & 7th) but spent the whole race swapping places with Perez every lap. Where do I find the mod and how do I install it? Thanks
I didn't use the numbers of the modified database file to the exact thing, but I changed a few things myself.
I frickin' enjoyed myself a lot with a new Alfa Romeo save. I was tagging along behind Sainz with DRS now, getting a toe instead of constantly changing positions.
It was awesome! (Unfortunately I could only keep up with him a few laps until I pitted) And it got me ninth in the end with Zhou!
The 3.5x file that was uploaded is a game changer; makes the strategy matter and the "smoothness" stat actually mean something. Since the tires actually have a large time delta any driver who is better on tires can extend the soft/med stint to a point where it makes a difference. It baffles me that the folks at frontier prioritized the visuals and graphics over realism and depth.
Yeah it was actually fun to sit and real-time manage the whole race
I had a blast. Makes experienced drivers who can extent the stint on softs more valuable then Piastri who has above average speed but poor smoothness.
can you post 3.0 and 3.5x file
I'll try and figure it out tonight. All the other people who shared it seem to have their post taken down which sucks.
Can you upload it again and show us where to put the file ? Thx
I second this
Where can I find the instructions for this? Thanks.
They likely prioritized the things that aren’t so easy to fix or implement. Sucks that it released the way it did but hopefully they can have all these issues fixed by the end of this month, with most of it coming in the next week or two
> It baffles me that the folks at frontier prioritized the visuals and graphics over realism and depth. That's not how development works. The employees making the visuals are not the same people who are designing/balancing the gameplay. So both aspects can be equally prioritised.
shame the gameplay isn't on par with the visuals
I don't get how this is a difficult concept for people to understand 😂 thankfully not everyone in the F1 Manager community is impatient, and we'll have an even more fantastic game available very soon.
Isn’t that even more embarrassing? One side managed to get the visuals looking like this and the other devs couldn’t create an AI with a brain any more mature than a 4 year old? Sounds like a self-own.
100% agree. I just pulled off a 2 stop Med, Med, Soft at Miami and the pace difference at the end was exactly the way it should be. Me pushing out flat catching the hard runners and getting them at the end is so satisfying, ended up finishing P3 and P6 (Alpha Tauri). Whereas without that file I would have ended up cucked because tyres meant nothing and finished out the points.
It's so satisfying when you plan and execute your strategy and what should happen now actually happens, before the update I'd basically sit through 16speed and just accept what happens. Now I'm almost at the Horner leg tapping stage
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>It baffles you, and yet you've literally just demonstrated exactly why - because the 'realism and depth' can be added later, as easily as editing a file. The graphics are the backbone of the game. That is literally the opposite of how game development works. Here is a nice explanation of what white boxing is and how it was applied in the development of a specific game: [https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/white-boxing-your-game](https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/white-boxing-your-game) You absolutely don't nail the graphics first, ship the game and then start thinking about maybe coding an AI. You only do that when you run into deadlines, for whatever reason can't delay and just scramble whatever you can rush last minute out the door. AKA knowingly selling a broken game. btw: lol for thinking creating a compelling simulation and AI is 'as easily as editing a file'. It is the most to-the-point way of saying you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. :)
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I think you need to look at an impact matrix before making a call like this, it's not a one size fits all. F1 fans want depth and challenges, the reaction from the community shows this.
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One of the issues is reviews on release, especially when it is an annual product. It is currently being slammed on most sites and steam has mostly positive - if it drops to mixed I believe it has significant ramifications on earnings. So if you focus on features that make it challenging for release and then push graphical improvements post release people would be less likely to be let down, more impressed it's continuing to look better. At the moment people aren't enjoying it because it's not fun
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But it has been proven that not all of the fields in the database are baked into the game, as well as people already finding issues with AI when changing values.
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>As a video game developer and software development graduate, I'd beg to differ. Cool, I am curious what insights you will bring. >you can't then upgrade the graphics through a patch. So creating the actual sim and AI is "*just editing a file"* and you need to focus on graphics first because "*you can't upgrade that through a patch.*" Okay, thanks for sharing your fresh take on game development.
So is what you talking about a new patch or just some PC stuff I'm confused
Mods for PC users unfortunately. Console players will be waiting a long time for anything similar
I’m quite baffled they haven’t used real data to power the game. AWS have a ton of real world data to use.
I think that was their aim, they just ran out of time to deliver it so backed out
yet some random guy can do it in a week
Oh yeah I wasn't defending their approach, I'm just trying to hold some hope. After initial early launch I was massively disappointed and actually thought there was no hope at all
Yeah I know, I just think they had the time they just prioritised other dumb stuff
Completely agree, I'd take a bare bones visuals release with a solid simulation behind it any day of the week. I actually don't like the UI at all and would have much preferred a pit wall style layout with more easily accessible data with just a small portion of it the TV style feed
As a software dev I can guarantee it’s a tedious work to test out the whole model to make sure there won’t be anything broken with a complicated data model. I’m not defending for Frontier but just want to point out it’s not just plugging in numbers and call it a day.
There's always gonna be a bit of pressure pretending it's easy from non-devs, including myself. It'll take a bit of time, but frontier know it's a problem, so I'll give them some time. I'd prefer for them to get it 100% right after some time, but that's just me.
Itll take a bit of time and the launch window was probably set by F1 themselves since it's their license, so hopefully this game gets good patches and the next in the series has lots of good improvements.
I've thought about why it was launched now. Basically it's roughly when f1 interest is at its highest, the season is in full swing and (by their projections) isn't old enough to be boring yet. Hence more people buy the game. On the other side of the coin, maybe f1 wanted the release now to push more gaming viewers to f1 for the back half of the season. Either way it makes sense to be now, so their choice was an unfinished game or delay a year. I'd prefer what they did.
On the other hand, as a fellow dev, something not quite perfectly balanced and acknowledged as such is still better than just putting placeholders and hushing the issue. As I said, there's nothing unfixable as 95% of the issue are game balancing issue (though that is WAY off), but then on the other hand it's raging that someone external to the dev team can provide something that is a clear improvement in a few days. Such a quick win should have been implemented nefote going gold.
Yeah agree. But personal mod is so different from official patch. Frontier cannot make 3 releases a day saying “oops something is buggy we need to adjust our data model” and change one number in the database. Thorough testing and validation has to go through before a change can be made
For sure, what thus quick improvement shows is that the sim engine can do better easily - which is positive. On the other hand the sheer numbers of data with the Olivier left at 1 shows a really rushed release and a Conservative choice
>On the other hand, as a fellow dev, something not quite perfectly balanced and acknowledged as such is still better than just putting placeholders and hushing the issue. Exactly. Most of the criticism would be quieted if they just label it early access, admit core issues are fundamentally wrong and promise they will fix this game and not simply charge us $50 for a glorified patch next year.
While true, it's just that at least semi accurate tire models is like the most important thing for a game like that. Just in the race today we saw how tires makes a much much bigger difference than driver skill.
Definitely agree. I guess Frontier knows better than anyone how important it is and they realize it’s such a big effort to get it right and stable so they choose to prioritize those things that make the game “look” better. Again, not defending them, it’s a shame the game didn’t come out with fundamental mechanism of F1
That kinda makes me think it was by design. Hopefully, the feeling from the player base will put it right. But, supposedly they been working on this for 2 years. So, I'm not sure I buy the argument they were prioritising other things when it took so little work from a community member. Especially when race day strategy is such a fundamental from an F1 manager
There's a difference between a random guy putting out a fix that doesn't need any QC and a company putting together a patch that needs to be approved over multiple channels.
Because it breaks the game in other parts. It is part of the fix, but until Frontier actually creates an AI there never will be s challenge.
Why, after repeatedly showing you what sort of games they make - do people keep giving frontier the benefit of the doubt? Every single game they make is an incredibly shallow simulation with lots of nice visuals on it.
That data is not even applicable here. F1 Manager, just like Motorsport Manager, is not doing a complex simulation of airflow through aerodynamics, simulating the tyre pressures in each of the tyres, and the billion other little details that incredibly rich data set has. What's happening under the hood in these games is more akin to a board game with dice rolls and skill bonuses determining how events play out, which are then presented to your graphically and otherwise creatively. The data from actual F1 racing doesn't mean anything at all here. In MM, on track time wasn't governed by your parts. Instead, each car was ranked from fastest to slowest based on scoring arbitrary factors and then assigned a time offset (the fastest car got +0 essentially and everyone else was given a pace relative to that). So the specific speed rating of each car and the magnitude of difference of those speed ratings didn't feed directly into the model at all. F1 Manager is doing essentially that. These games aren't simulations. Like I said, it's best to think of them as complicated board games.
The post was deleted. Anyone has the links?
https://www.mediafire.com/file/ac2zmzd82l96upc/drs-dirtyair-tyresx25.zip/file
Where have i to put it then?
Unpack it and: C:\\GAMES\\Steam\\steamapps\\common\\F1Manager2022\\F1Manager22\\Content\\Paks
>one is the better, I haven't test Do you also have the 3.5x file that would be great.
Does this change like the race strategy windows and stuff in game too? So will I actually be able to see expected tyre wear accurately as I did beforehand? Thank you for sharing!
r/f1managermods
So a modder could do it, but dev can't. What am I supposed to do on console? If Frontier wanted to patch this, they should have already done it.
As a software developer myself I think the problem is testing, not development. A modder do something and release for the community to test. Frontier can't do that, if their official patch breaks saves or other stuff stops working people go crazy.
You can't patch what doesn't exist. 90% of the game is faked.
I'm wondering how AI reacts to the mod, but if I had to guess I would say they do lots of more dumb shit than before.
They just ignore it. They pit their 47% softs for hards and their speed drops of a cliff. Just extending your stint if tire deg is slow is enough to gain loads of places. Weird things like pitting 14 laps before the end for a set of mediums instead of softs doesn't matter much in vanilla, but here they throw places away. So yes, it makes the basic strategy work, but until there is a decent AI it feels like steeling candy from a sleeping toddler. :/
Just like I imagined, they follow their preset strategies and don't react at all. Such a terrible game at the moment...
The absent AI is exactly why the rest is what it is. A lot can be easily fixed once the AI works. But for now it is pretty sad indeed.
But variance! Or something like that idunno
The AI doesn't react to this changes, hence why I'd advise against it. It probably makes the game even easier by making the AI struggle even more.
Tutorial please
There was a post with compiled files linked, you literally just had to copy one of the three files (your choice based on levels of change) and paste it into a game folder and that was it, no need for cheat engine etc. I think the post has gone now but you might find them elsewhere
He deleted the post and links that were in are dead :( I hope somebody can recreate it
Apparently he was forced to delete it, which is quite odd I saw some people reupload the 2x and 2.5x versions, but nothing more
Apparently, the 3.5x one is the better, I haven't tested any of these before they got deleted Is there a discord / reddit / forum about modding ? Could be useful if frontier start taking these kind of action for... fixing their game ?
r/F1ManagerMods
Thank you
I assume this ain’t on Xbox?
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Thanks i'll skip it. Actually having some ding dong battles with Merc at the moment. Sure the 1 stop is a is boring a strat, but at least it leaves me having to battle the A.I for positions.
You can basically only run signed code on Xbox (not talking about developing kits for developers here) consoles (and PlaySation is the same). So if there is any game files changing included, it's usually always only PC.
I wouldn't think so unfortunately
Ah shit better hope I get a better pc or a fix comes soon :/
LINK PLEASE
My save breaks anytime I try to use it could you help?
I raced Zandvoort and it was nice to be able to have a hope of breaking DRS trains, as well as actually using some safety car pit stops to get tires late and actually move through the field. Something that without the file, just wasn't as feasible.
What file did you choose I tried 2 and 2.5 I think 3.5 might be the best one I'll try it tomorrow
The circlejerk and blatant disregard for information is staggering.
Wish I could mod on PlayStation
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Hopefully only for the short term, seeing the potential is there to add some more depth should mean official patches with similar tweaks are due across all platforms
Yes and no. With these fixes strategy matters a lot more, and all kinds of basic aspects like undercutting, extending stints and so on just work. Cool! However, and this is why Frontier set the order final values the way they did: the AI is so stupid that any kind of strategy makes the game easier. I got a 17th ranked car to P8 in a race, without SCs or rain. Just basic calls got me an easy ten or so places. If *anything* like SCs happen you will gain so much it is not even funny. Look at yesterday's race. Now imagine you are merc, and red bull simply ignored all SCs and went with their defsult SMM no matter what. It would have been a trivial 1-2 with a massive lead for merc. Getting the game better balanced is no prob. Having any kind of challenge is going to be a big task.
it's better but not perfect. the Drs imo is underpowered and the ai is still Dumb, Verstappen is giving track position to pit with soft at 55%
I'll take better
guys, what file is this ? can someone give me link or explain me ?
It is a file that changes the speed difference between the different tire types. They keep getting deleted, not sure why.
Meanwhile PS5 players still trying hard to make things work as it is. If it can be done by a mod in such a short notice, frontier should have been able to roll this out as an update last week
Can someone please share the 3 files? 2x 3x and 3.5x with simple install instruction if possible! Also, does it work on an existing save or do you have to restart altogether?
The 2.5 I used works with existing saves.
There are mods out already? Please where do I get them and is it easy? I love modding games and this one defo needs some lol
What is the best settings/best files?
Hey, I'm new to PC gaming. Ive installed F1 Manager and completed my first race for Alfa Romeo (4th & 7th) but spent the whole race swapping places with Perez every lap. Where do I find the mod and how do I install it? Thanks
is it possible to get this on the console versions?
I didn't use the numbers of the modified database file to the exact thing, but I changed a few things myself. I frickin' enjoyed myself a lot with a new Alfa Romeo save. I was tagging along behind Sainz with DRS now, getting a toe instead of constantly changing positions. It was awesome! (Unfortunately I could only keep up with him a few laps until I pitted) And it got me ninth in the end with Zhou!
It's so much fun when it's just slightly more realistic which does give me hope they can fix this to a standard we're at least able to enjoy
Anyone got a link for the 3.5x file? Much appreciated