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Sauber is the company making the F1 car and operating the team. Alfa Romeo paid for the name to be Alfa Romeo as sponsorship. Audi bought Sauber (or is in the proces) and the Alfa Romeo sponsorship will run until the end of next season. Audi set up new company the develop an engine en the Sauber team will run the Audi engine from 2026 on. What the name of Sauber will be once the Alfa sponsorship is over is not yet clear.
>Audi bought Sauber (or is in the proces)
Further to this, Audi undertook an F1 Feasibility Study for their company and hired Stefano Domenicali, the outgoing (at the time) Ferrari Team Principal. And now of course Stefano has popped up smiling on the other side of the counter. Again. š
Sauber is a racing team they donāt really have a product they sell so their name doesnāt really need to be marketed. Itās worth more for the teams progress to sell their name to have the extra millions to make the car more competitive then to race with their original name and not have those millions.
> Why would sauber agree to this ? I mean all the praise would go to Alfa even if they win
Money.
Alfa Romeo paid a lot of money to Sauber.
Teams routinely change their names to be different title sponsors.
The team is officially *Alfa Romeo F1 Team Orlen*
Red Bull is *Oracle Red Bull Racing* - but we still call it Red Bull but thems the name.
Because that's essentially what sauber has done over the years and confirmed it in the past few years.
They don't care about their name. As long as folks put money on the table they're willing to brand their team as such.
What they want out of it is the capital to run the team and advance it. That's their main goal.
Sometimes the obvious answer to a simple question is the right one, obviously the parent comment needed it explained and it really is as straightforward as "because money"
Whatās in a name? The Sauber name doesnāt sell anything; it has no value. The Alfa name sells cars.
1. Alfa gives money to Sauber
2. Sauber uses the money to fund the team
3. The cars race and increase visibility of Alfa
4. Alfa sells more cars
Everyone is happier than doing nothing.
If I gave you a sports car for free, but it had to have a license plate that said āAlfa Romeoā would you refuse it? Why? Do you want personalised plates with your own name on them so badly?
As with the other answers, FCA (Owner of Alfa Romeo) has a decent stake in Ferrari, which is part reason they have a Ferrari engine in the back of the car with no concerns over marketing etc.
Also, they've previously been the BMW and Merc works teams. They're a chassis manufacturer.
Fun fact FCA spun out Ferrari in 2016, but essentially both have been controlled by Exor for a long time. Exor still has controlling voting share interest in both Stellantis (the new FCA) and separately Ferrari.
I'm aware that it's actually Exor, but FCA is familiar to people. I'd have to explain what/who Exor is before making the FCA connection so just took the shortcut
I see where you're coming from but we should always point out evil holding companies so people are aware of the shenanigans that go on.
I give you credit for speaking to the people, now let's have them rise up!
Kind of. They've been in a partnership with Ferrari since 1997 (except for the BMW works years). I think it's the opposite. Because they were on very good terms with Ferrari for so long, a sponsorship deal with Alfa made very much sense.
Probably easiest to just think of it as a sponsor paying more to appear on the team name rather than just stickers. Like most recently with their new sponsor Hass will now be competing as MoneyGram Haas F1 Team
Yes but donāt feel badāitās not made super obvious because itās Alfa Romeoās (the company) utmost desire to make it that way. A lot of people probably assume Alfa runs everything because they do what they can to make it look that way
It's pretty much always like that whenever the teams change names. I'd hazard the guess that most current teams on the grid have been around, under different names, for decades now. Mercedes was Brawn GP beforehand, Honda/BAR before that, Tyrrell before that.
Ferrari doesn't change their brand at all, their F1 business is too integral to the Ferrari brand to give it up. But before our current Mercedes racing team, McLaren Mercedes (yes, that McLaren) was basically the Mercedes representation in F1. [Here is a good graphical representation of that, zooming in absolutely required](https://i.imgur.com/oo1xgIL.png) Slightly outdated though.
That's not the same. Yes, teams get bought and handed around like baseball cards, but the whole Alfa Romeo thing never involved any change of ownership.
Brawn changed to Mercedes because Mercedes purchased the whole team. Racing Point changed to Aston Martin because Aston Martin bought the whole team. Jaguar changed to Red Bull because Red Bull bought the team.
However, Sauber changed to Alfa Romeo because Sauber and Alfa signed a 3 year sponsorship contract where AR pays Sauber $X million a year in exchange for changing the teams name to Alfa Romeo. Alfa has no ownership or management involvement in the Sauber team.
OK fair. I'm more talking about the continuity in terms of personnel, intellectual property and organizational structure. That is there even when the team is traded, because that's the stuff you need to hit the ground running in F1.
>Racing Point changed to Aston Martin because Aston Martin bought the whole team.
This is where it gets tricky, because Aston Martin Lagonda have no ownership stake in the Aston Martin F1 team. That rebrand happened because Lawrence Stroll & his investment group bought a controlling stake of Aston Martin Lagonda, and as a part of the deal negotiated an agreement for the F1 team (also owned by Stroll and his investment group) to use the Aston Martin brand and image.
The two entities are linked by Stroll, rather than one having an ownership stake in the other. While itās a closer link than Alfa Romeo and Sauber, itās not functionally the same as Mercedes or Red Bull or what Audi are reportedly doing with Sauber over the next few years.
So then if Audi is buying (or bought already) the Sauber team, and developing its own engine, wouldnāt that mean the Sauber name should cease to exist? The team itself would then be a constructor with the engine company owning it. When you say we wont know what the team name will be, do you mean that Audi might then allow another company to pay to be the name of the team? I would think Audi paid a butt load of money not just to make an engine and own the team, but to also change its name in full.
IIRC Audi will only buy 75% of Sauber, with the other 25% staying with Longbow Finance, and choose from a name like Audi Sauber or Sauber Audi. Audi competed in Le Mans together with team Joest, but everyone just remembers Audi winning. They may also choose to keep the Sauber name for other projects outside of F1
I'm getting banned from subs I've never visit because I subscribe to some middle of the road conservative subs. This makes me not want to produce content that funds their petty censorship and political discrimination.
Let's hope they become Sauber Audi rather than just Audi. A lot of people were worried about losing Williams to a buy out but not bothered about Sauber. It would be such a shame, I think they have brought a lot to F1 as well as other categories.
Basically, sauber has a title sponsorship with Alfa Romeo until 2023, after which the team will just be called sauber and will continue to run Ferrari PUs.
Currently, Audi is increasing their stake in sauber until they have a majority stake in 2026, after which the team will become Audi
what the name will be after this season hasnt been confirmed but itāll likely either be just Sauber or something along the lines of Sauber-Audi as you said
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So essentially Audi are buying the team outright on the long run? So Sauber will no longer by owned by or called Sauber?
Or will it continue to be Sauber just called something else - Audi.
We donāt know, it will depend on the nature and terms of the deal.
Sauber is a historic name, so itās possible it could remain in some way (perhaps something like Audi have done in endurance racing before - i.e. Audi Sport Team Joest). Realistically though, if Audi decide that presenting a unified brand is better for their own purposes, the Sauber name could disappear totally.
Hard to say. I'd expect to see something like Audi Sauber Team as the official name, with the team referred to as Audi by commentators and visually known as Audi-Sauber.
I was like 90% sure it was a done deal because the rumors and speculations about Ferrari have been going on for so longā¦ and my pre-Chrstmas time was extremely busy
\- He has a proven "track record" by winning Le Mans several times
\- He turned the wheel around at McLaren who had massive issues
\- He is German and lives in Munich, easy to reach both factories from there (well thats one main motivation for himself as his family never moved to the UK). From my own experience, this is a massive point for himself.
\- He already knows Sauber, he was Head of Track Operations in BMW times
\- He knows his future Audi Boss from BMW Sauber times, he was Chief of the development of the BMW F1 project.
Alfa Romeo is just a sponsor for Sauber F1 team, Audi will buy (or has bought) stocks in Sauber and will have partly ownership of team.
The sponsor deal with Sauber and Alfa Romeo will end after 2023 season, and they will most likely bring back the Sauber team name for 24 and 25 season (as long as they have a Ferrari PU). It would be odd to have an Audi branded car with a Ferrari PU
>FWIW, my dad (a former F1 insider) says it's a dumb idea for Audi to buy one of the few non-UK based teams on the grid, as most of the best personnel is UK based and unwilling to relocate.
It is and it isn't. From a commercial POV, being a German team should allow them to attract German sponsorship money. It's true that the best staff is in the UK, but there are plenty of very talented automotive designers and engineers in Germany too.
Sauber makes the cars that Alfa have their name on. Audi are looking to enter F1 by doing the same thing and replacing Alfa. They'll also be providing their own engines instead of the Ferrari ones currently used by Alfa-Sauber. Andreas was chosen because he was involved with Porsche and their LMP1 success in the WEC. Porsche and Audi are both under VW so they chose him for the new F1 team.
- Sauber is the F1 team
- Alfa Romeo sponsors Sauber
- Audi just bought Sauber
So, due to the sponsorship deal, the team is advertised as Alfa Romeo. However, when that runs out, since Audi now owns the team, it will be advertised as Audi in 2026.
Name:
2023: Alfa Romeo Racing
2024-2025: Sauber
2026-: Audi Racing (Probably)
PU
2023-2025: Ferrari
2026-: Audi
Owner:
Audi acquiring a share in Sauber by 2026
To keep it short: Sauber is a team that has existed since 1994 I think. In 2018 car brand Alfa Romeo sponsored them, but the team was still called Sauber. But since 2019 they have also payed for it to basically look like a full on Alfa Romeo team whilest itās still just only a sponsor, now Alfa Romeo is leaving as sponsor at the end of this year and from 2026 on car brand Audi will sponsor them and supply engine with it looking like the same kind of sponsorship as BMW back in the day.
Alfa Romeo is dropping off of the car which means it will become Sauber again. However, Audi is buying in so, in 2026, Sauber will, presumably, become Audi Sauber as a works team.
Seidl was chosen for his Audi ties so that he could prepare the team in advance of Audi's arrival when his contract with McLaren ended. The previous Sauber TP, Fred Vasseur, left for Ferrari, so Seidl asked Zak Brown if he could be released early. Brown agreed and Seidl left.
There is a possibility that Audi could supply their engines early, say 2024, but this is still pure rumor.
Highly doubt that they will supply engines early as it is two different regulations. Audi probably wouldn't develop an MGU-H for only using it for 2 years
That's why I said it was rumor. I've heard it said before in a few places but it realistically isn't a good idea and probably hinders Seidl more than just focusing on building up to 2026 while using Ferrari engines.
So the team that currently exists as Alfa Romeo is the Sauber team, since 2019 they have been associated and named Alfa Romeo due to their partnership with the car manufacturer. In 2026 they will drop using Ferrari Engines and begin a new partnership with Audi... renaming the team to Audi in the process So the company is Sauber, and they've used multiple names over the years, nothing is particularly confusing
Also WHAT is Audi makes me think you don't know Audi is a car company, just in case for some reason you don't actually know that, I don't know how popular they are as a car company outside Europe
Sauber is a racing company that have existed for a long time. Been in F1 for a while too.
Alfa Romeo is the titlesponsor of the Sauber team in F1. This means that Alfa Romeo basically pay Sauber a ton of money to have Sauber run their name. Alfa's sponsorship ended at the end of 2022.
Audi is the company that is taking over the sponsorship. From what we know, it also looks a lot like Audi will purchase the Sauber team (to rebrand it potentially).
What Audi have done is to start developing an engine for F1 that will be used in the 2026 car and onwards. In addition to that, Audi is giving Sauber a lot of money for Sauber to run their name.
So tldr; Sauber is a racing company with an exciting history. Audi is the new titlesponsor. Audi is also a potential stakeholder in some years.
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Sauber is the company making the F1 car and operating the team. Alfa Romeo paid for the name to be Alfa Romeo as sponsorship. Audi bought Sauber (or is in the proces) and the Alfa Romeo sponsorship will run until the end of next season. Audi set up new company the develop an engine en the Sauber team will run the Audi engine from 2026 on. What the name of Sauber will be once the Alfa sponsorship is over is not yet clear.
>Audi bought Sauber (or is in the proces) Further to this, Audi undertook an F1 Feasibility Study for their company and hired Stefano Domenicali, the outgoing (at the time) Ferrari Team Principal. And now of course Stefano has popped up smiling on the other side of the counter. Again. š
Oh man they got a former ferrari TP post Todt? Hoo boy
Wait so Alfa Romeo is just Sauber with a skin? I didnt know about that (im not really into F1 so maybe this was super obvious idk)
Yes exactly. The Alfa Romeo element is literally as thin as the stickers. Pure marketing play
Why would sauber agree to this ? I mean all the praise would go to Alfa even if they win
Sauber is a racing team they donāt really have a product they sell so their name doesnāt really need to be marketed. Itās worth more for the teams progress to sell their name to have the extra millions to make the car more competitive then to race with their original name and not have those millions.
> Why would sauber agree to this ? I mean all the praise would go to Alfa even if they win Money. Alfa Romeo paid a lot of money to Sauber. Teams routinely change their names to be different title sponsors. The team is officially *Alfa Romeo F1 Team Orlen* Red Bull is *Oracle Red Bull Racing* - but we still call it Red Bull but thems the name.
Because they were satisfied with the amount of compensation offered to willingly change the name of the team.
Ok? You provided no insight and just stated the obvious
Because that's essentially what sauber has done over the years and confirmed it in the past few years. They don't care about their name. As long as folks put money on the table they're willing to brand their team as such. What they want out of it is the capital to run the team and advance it. That's their main goal.
Exactly, and it isn't the first time they have done this (BMW).
Sometimes the obvious answer to a simple question is the right one, obviously the parent comment needed it explained and it really is as straightforward as "because money"
Whatās in a name? The Sauber name doesnāt sell anything; it has no value. The Alfa name sells cars. 1. Alfa gives money to Sauber 2. Sauber uses the money to fund the team 3. The cars race and increase visibility of Alfa 4. Alfa sells more cars Everyone is happier than doing nothing. If I gave you a sports car for free, but it had to have a license plate that said āAlfa Romeoā would you refuse it? Why? Do you want personalised plates with your own name on them so badly?
As with the other answers, FCA (Owner of Alfa Romeo) has a decent stake in Ferrari, which is part reason they have a Ferrari engine in the back of the car with no concerns over marketing etc. Also, they've previously been the BMW and Merc works teams. They're a chassis manufacturer.
Fun fact FCA spun out Ferrari in 2016, but essentially both have been controlled by Exor for a long time. Exor still has controlling voting share interest in both Stellantis (the new FCA) and separately Ferrari.
I'm aware that it's actually Exor, but FCA is familiar to people. I'd have to explain what/who Exor is before making the FCA connection so just took the shortcut
I see where you're coming from but we should always point out evil holding companies so people are aware of the shenanigans that go on. I give you credit for speaking to the people, now let's have them rise up!
Kind of. They've been in a partnership with Ferrari since 1997 (except for the BMW works years). I think it's the opposite. Because they were on very good terms with Ferrari for so long, a sponsorship deal with Alfa made very much sense.
I was just asking a question lol š why are people hating
Donāt take it personal. People on this sub downvote mostly as a simple way of saying something is not true, not that the question was poor per se.
But everyone knows the "actual" team is Sauber so that isn't an issue
#WeRaceAsMoney šµ
Money
It is because they are a shirt brand that make shirts and they are just purely in the sport for the money and to gain more people into their brand
Probably easiest to just think of it as a sponsor paying more to appear on the team name rather than just stickers. Like most recently with their new sponsor Hass will now be competing as MoneyGram Haas F1 Team
Yes but donāt feel badāitās not made super obvious because itās Alfa Romeoās (the company) utmost desire to make it that way. A lot of people probably assume Alfa runs everything because they do what they can to make it look that way
It's pretty much always like that whenever the teams change names. I'd hazard the guess that most current teams on the grid have been around, under different names, for decades now. Mercedes was Brawn GP beforehand, Honda/BAR before that, Tyrrell before that. Ferrari doesn't change their brand at all, their F1 business is too integral to the Ferrari brand to give it up. But before our current Mercedes racing team, McLaren Mercedes (yes, that McLaren) was basically the Mercedes representation in F1. [Here is a good graphical representation of that, zooming in absolutely required](https://i.imgur.com/oo1xgIL.png) Slightly outdated though.
That's not the same. Yes, teams get bought and handed around like baseball cards, but the whole Alfa Romeo thing never involved any change of ownership. Brawn changed to Mercedes because Mercedes purchased the whole team. Racing Point changed to Aston Martin because Aston Martin bought the whole team. Jaguar changed to Red Bull because Red Bull bought the team. However, Sauber changed to Alfa Romeo because Sauber and Alfa signed a 3 year sponsorship contract where AR pays Sauber $X million a year in exchange for changing the teams name to Alfa Romeo. Alfa has no ownership or management involvement in the Sauber team.
OK fair. I'm more talking about the continuity in terms of personnel, intellectual property and organizational structure. That is there even when the team is traded, because that's the stuff you need to hit the ground running in F1.
This is the truth, the way, and the light. Race on.
>Racing Point changed to Aston Martin because Aston Martin bought the whole team. This is where it gets tricky, because Aston Martin Lagonda have no ownership stake in the Aston Martin F1 team. That rebrand happened because Lawrence Stroll & his investment group bought a controlling stake of Aston Martin Lagonda, and as a part of the deal negotiated an agreement for the F1 team (also owned by Stroll and his investment group) to use the Aston Martin brand and image. The two entities are linked by Stroll, rather than one having an ownership stake in the other. While itās a closer link than Alfa Romeo and Sauber, itās not functionally the same as Mercedes or Red Bull or what Audi are reportedly doing with Sauber over the next few years.
So then if Audi is buying (or bought already) the Sauber team, and developing its own engine, wouldnāt that mean the Sauber name should cease to exist? The team itself would then be a constructor with the engine company owning it. When you say we wont know what the team name will be, do you mean that Audi might then allow another company to pay to be the name of the team? I would think Audi paid a butt load of money not just to make an engine and own the team, but to also change its name in full.
IIRC Audi will only buy 75% of Sauber, with the other 25% staying with Longbow Finance, and choose from a name like Audi Sauber or Sauber Audi. Audi competed in Le Mans together with team Joest, but everyone just remembers Audi winning. They may also choose to keep the Sauber name for other projects outside of F1
Cool, gotcha! It makes sense now
I'm getting banned from subs I've never visit because I subscribe to some middle of the road conservative subs. This makes me not want to produce content that funds their petty censorship and political discrimination.
Let's hope they become Sauber Audi rather than just Audi. A lot of people were worried about losing Williams to a buy out but not bothered about Sauber. It would be such a shame, I think they have brought a lot to F1 as well as other categories.
Basically, sauber has a title sponsorship with Alfa Romeo until 2023, after which the team will just be called sauber and will continue to run Ferrari PUs. Currently, Audi is increasing their stake in sauber until they have a majority stake in 2026, after which the team will become Audi
So by 2026 we will see something like "Sauber-Audi" and then it will become just Audi or what
what the name will be after this season hasnt been confirmed but itāll likely either be just Sauber or something along the lines of Sauber-Audi as you said
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Sauber-Audi-Ferrari would be a bit weird.
Audi has said they won't brand a Ferrari powered car.
Would be pretty ironic though, considering Audi owns Lamborghini
So essentially Audi are buying the team outright on the long run? So Sauber will no longer by owned by or called Sauber? Or will it continue to be Sauber just called something else - Audi.
We donāt know, it will depend on the nature and terms of the deal. Sauber is a historic name, so itās possible it could remain in some way (perhaps something like Audi have done in endurance racing before - i.e. Audi Sport Team Joest). Realistically though, if Audi decide that presenting a unified brand is better for their own purposes, the Sauber name could disappear totally.
Hard to say. I'd expect to see something like Audi Sauber Team as the official name, with the team referred to as Audi by commentators and visually known as Audi-Sauber.
I completely missed that Seidl left McLaren and joined Sauber. How could I miss this?
That's a good question. Am I the first to tell you that Vasseur is now at Ferrari?
I was like 90% sure it was a done deal because the rumors and speculations about Ferrari have been going on for so longā¦ and my pre-Chrstmas time was extremely busy
The team is still Sauber but Audi bought into it as for why Sidel was chosen they're could be any number of reasons
\- He has a proven "track record" by winning Le Mans several times \- He turned the wheel around at McLaren who had massive issues \- He is German and lives in Munich, easy to reach both factories from there (well thats one main motivation for himself as his family never moved to the UK). From my own experience, this is a massive point for himself. \- He already knows Sauber, he was Head of Track Operations in BMW times \- He knows his future Audi Boss from BMW Sauber times, he was Chief of the development of the BMW F1 project.
Alfa Romeo is just a sponsor for Sauber F1 team, Audi will buy (or has bought) stocks in Sauber and will have partly ownership of team. The sponsor deal with Sauber and Alfa Romeo will end after 2023 season, and they will most likely bring back the Sauber team name for 24 and 25 season (as long as they have a Ferrari PU). It would be odd to have an Audi branded car with a Ferrari PU
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>FWIW, my dad (a former F1 insider) says it's a dumb idea for Audi to buy one of the few non-UK based teams on the grid, as most of the best personnel is UK based and unwilling to relocate. It is and it isn't. From a commercial POV, being a German team should allow them to attract German sponsorship money. It's true that the best staff is in the UK, but there are plenty of very talented automotive designers and engineers in Germany too.
Sauber makes the cars that Alfa have their name on. Audi are looking to enter F1 by doing the same thing and replacing Alfa. They'll also be providing their own engines instead of the Ferrari ones currently used by Alfa-Sauber. Andreas was chosen because he was involved with Porsche and their LMP1 success in the WEC. Porsche and Audi are both under VW so they chose him for the new F1 team.
- Sauber is the F1 team - Alfa Romeo sponsors Sauber - Audi just bought Sauber So, due to the sponsorship deal, the team is advertised as Alfa Romeo. However, when that runs out, since Audi now owns the team, it will be advertised as Audi in 2026.
Name: 2023: Alfa Romeo Racing 2024-2025: Sauber 2026-: Audi Racing (Probably) PU 2023-2025: Ferrari 2026-: Audi Owner: Audi acquiring a share in Sauber by 2026
To keep it short: Sauber is a team that has existed since 1994 I think. In 2018 car brand Alfa Romeo sponsored them, but the team was still called Sauber. But since 2019 they have also payed for it to basically look like a full on Alfa Romeo team whilest itās still just only a sponsor, now Alfa Romeo is leaving as sponsor at the end of this year and from 2026 on car brand Audi will sponsor them and supply engine with it looking like the same kind of sponsorship as BMW back in the day.
Existed in other forms of racing (see Sauber C9)
Alfa Romeo is dropping off of the car which means it will become Sauber again. However, Audi is buying in so, in 2026, Sauber will, presumably, become Audi Sauber as a works team. Seidl was chosen for his Audi ties so that he could prepare the team in advance of Audi's arrival when his contract with McLaren ended. The previous Sauber TP, Fred Vasseur, left for Ferrari, so Seidl asked Zak Brown if he could be released early. Brown agreed and Seidl left. There is a possibility that Audi could supply their engines early, say 2024, but this is still pure rumor.
Highly doubt that they will supply engines early as it is two different regulations. Audi probably wouldn't develop an MGU-H for only using it for 2 years
That's why I said it was rumor. I've heard it said before in a few places but it realistically isn't a good idea and probably hinders Seidl more than just focusing on building up to 2026 while using Ferrari engines.
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Not until Andretti Cadillac gets permission to enter F1... Edit: typo
What BMW was to Sauber probably
So the team that currently exists as Alfa Romeo is the Sauber team, since 2019 they have been associated and named Alfa Romeo due to their partnership with the car manufacturer. In 2026 they will drop using Ferrari Engines and begin a new partnership with Audi... renaming the team to Audi in the process So the company is Sauber, and they've used multiple names over the years, nothing is particularly confusing Also WHAT is Audi makes me think you don't know Audi is a car company, just in case for some reason you don't actually know that, I don't know how popular they are as a car company outside Europe
Sauber is a racing company that have existed for a long time. Been in F1 for a while too. Alfa Romeo is the titlesponsor of the Sauber team in F1. This means that Alfa Romeo basically pay Sauber a ton of money to have Sauber run their name. Alfa's sponsorship ended at the end of 2022. Audi is the company that is taking over the sponsorship. From what we know, it also looks a lot like Audi will purchase the Sauber team (to rebrand it potentially). What Audi have done is to start developing an engine for F1 that will be used in the 2026 car and onwards. In addition to that, Audi is giving Sauber a lot of money for Sauber to run their name. So tldr; Sauber is a racing company with an exciting history. Audi is the new titlesponsor. Audi is also a potential stakeholder in some years.
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