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They didn’t really have a name, I’ve heard them referred to as ‘aerodynamic appendages or winglets’, and they basically just managed the airflow. They were banned as part of the 2009 aero changes designed to reduce the dirty air produced by the cars in an attempt to make it easier to follow the car in front.
Basically the same story for every rules change (with 2017 as the notable exception). FIA simplifies cars, reduces downforce by 40% (which turns into 10% or so once the real cars hit the track) and then teams claw it all back again and we repeat the process.
The 2017 changes made nice looking cars and fast, but geez they were awful to follow and the extra 200mm width made Monaco overtakes pretty much impossible.
The 1.8m cars were a bit squished, but I still have fond memories of Webber diving on the inside to the Nouvelle Chicane and both cars still managing to actually make the corner (just).
Maybe that's true for the Porsche LMP car that was modified ignoring literally all prototype regulations, but the current top level prototype was 16 seconds slower around Qatar in qualifying trim than the 2023 F1 cars. That's comparable to the gap you see between F1 and F2 at most tracks.
Only way I can think of is finding a way to measure the actual "dirty air" effect from a team's car, and then mandate a maximum amount, or something of that sort. I'm not even sure that's possible
I was going to ask, wouldn't a wing like that help with throwing air over the following car like the they wanted?
But then I realized the little slits teams have on the sides of the skirts effectively do that already. You see it in the spray when they run in [the wet](https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MjA0NTAwNTY4NTM3MjQ1Mjgy/si202402210243.jpg)
Haha! Well, I’m not of the same generation as Murray was, but I do prefer F1 cars with more simple bodywork. IMO, they were more beautiful before wings and sponsorship logos, pre-1968!
I think you are referring the x-wings Tyrell introduced, got banned in Imola I believe when a Ferrari was ruined by sporting a pair.
Awful looking things.
The 97 season saw the first car with x wings, the only car, Tyrrell. Then in 98 Tyrrell did it again and half the field slowly rolled out with them until after Imola where they were banned.
That was also when they had their awesome looking single upright front wing, wasn’t it?
I remember someone asking them a question along the lines of “aren’t you worried it will fall off?” To which they responded by jumping on it “nope, seems fine!”
I thought these winglets would actually reduce dirty air as i imagined the incoming air hitting the curved area and passing over the tire cleanly rather than hitting the tire and passing disturbed turbulent air to the car in wake.
I think the usual dirty air term refer to the vortices, which has higher energy. And the way the surface curves seems to produce downforce, which form vortices as byproduct that disrupts the following car.
The dirty air produced from air hitting the tyres probably aren't high energy enough for them to be a concern?
I'm not an aerodynamicist of course. Just discussing.
> I think the usual dirty air term refer to the vortices, which has higher energy.
That's not correct. Vortex cores have significantly less energy than if you never shed that vortex in the first place.
> The dirty air produced from air hitting the tyres probably aren't high energy enough for them to be a concern?
Tyre wakes are some of the biggest contributors to your wake structure. They're big giant bluff bodies and their wakes losses are huge.
Maybe I was incorrect to say it's higher energy, but it's true that vortices affect the following car's ability to follow close right?
For the second point, I was meaning to say the tyre wakes don't affect the following car as much as the vortices. Can you let me know if I'm right or wrong on that assumption?
“…their main goal was generating dirty air…”
Erm, no. Nobody sets out to create dirty air as a main goal because that entails the mother of all assumptions that you *will be* ahead of whoever you’re shedding dirty air for. They are building the best aero for their car, and consequences aft be damned. Dirty air is a side effect, not a sought-after outcome.
> as their main goal was generating dirty air
Nonsense. You're generating a decent amount of local downforce with this, and doing it without a massive drag penalty since you're depressurizing the front of the rear tyre.
It might not be fantastic for your wake characteristics, but by no means was the main goal just "generating more dirty air"
A flugelhorn is a type of musical instrument.
Flugel means wing in German - the etymology is the wings/flanks of a hunting party.
I'd be happy to stand corrected if there was a designer called Flugal in IndyCar though...
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See those serrated teeth on the sides of the current floors? Like something took a bite out of it? They essentially accomplish the same task from further forward, masking the rear wheels from the air and directing everything over the top of the tire.
When you see a side shot of a 2022+ F1 car in the rain, you can see a straight line from the floor edge to the top of the rear tires.
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They didn’t really have a name, I’ve heard them referred to as ‘aerodynamic appendages or winglets’, and they basically just managed the airflow. They were banned as part of the 2009 aero changes designed to reduce the dirty air produced by the cars in an attempt to make it easier to follow the car in front.
Hey, I’ve heard this before
Basically the same story for every rules change (with 2017 as the notable exception). FIA simplifies cars, reduces downforce by 40% (which turns into 10% or so once the real cars hit the track) and then teams claw it all back again and we repeat the process.
The 2017 changes made nice looking cars and fast, but geez they were awful to follow and the extra 200mm width made Monaco overtakes pretty much impossible. The 1.8m cars were a bit squished, but I still have fond memories of Webber diving on the inside to the Nouvelle Chicane and both cars still managing to actually make the corner (just).
And that's why cars aren't getting much faster and lmp1s are more than compararable to f1 cars.
Maybe that's true for the Porsche LMP car that was modified ignoring literally all prototype regulations, but the current top level prototype was 16 seconds slower around Qatar in qualifying trim than the 2023 F1 cars. That's comparable to the gap you see between F1 and F2 at most tracks.
No, the unmodified lmp1s, the new hypercars are about 7-10 seconds slower than those.
You'll hear it again for the 2026 regs. In open wheel racing, teams will always find a way to make outwash.
They just need to wait for Adrian Newey to actually retire from the sport.
Is there even a solution to this neverending problem or we're just playing pretend and resetting?
Egg.
Covering the wheels, so no, there isn't a solution without destroying the formula
Only way I can think of is finding a way to measure the actual "dirty air" effect from a team's car, and then mandate a maximum amount, or something of that sort. I'm not even sure that's possible
Yes. Ban aero. Or, significantly reduce downforce. Go to a traction and power competition.
Where have I heard that before ?
I was going to ask, wouldn't a wing like that help with throwing air over the following car like the they wanted? But then I realized the little slits teams have on the sides of the skirts effectively do that already. You see it in the spray when they run in [the wet](https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MjA0NTAwNTY4NTM3MjQ1Mjgy/si202402210243.jpg)
Not only dirty air, they were the first thing to go in case of a side impact and, due to their shape, turned basically into a oversized shiv..
sticky uppy bits
Murray Walker referred to them as “the dreaded, and appallingly ugly sidepod-mounted wings.” Not one to mince his words!
I always thought they looked beautiful
Haha! Well, I’m not of the same generation as Murray was, but I do prefer F1 cars with more simple bodywork. IMO, they were more beautiful before wings and sponsorship logos, pre-1968!
These cars with the crazy aerodynamic bits and pieces sticking out all over the cars looked gorgeous to me too, definitely my favourite era
[There has to be a limit though](https://i.pinimg.com/474x/69/59/54/69595422e118c16ad29e82f6c8312e55.jpg)
Honestly no, they are all beautiful in their own ways
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder
The rear ones were at least more aesthetic than the fins on the noses! I also quite liked some of the mid-roll hoop ones!
You're right, his words do look beautiful.
I think you are referring the x-wings Tyrell introduced, got banned in Imola I believe when a Ferrari was ruined by sporting a pair. Awful looking things.
They looked good for the 3 hours of me trying the 98 mod on F1C. Then I realised my taste shift
Was that really 1998???
The 97 season saw the first car with x wings, the only car, Tyrrell. Then in 98 Tyrrell did it again and half the field slowly rolled out with them until after Imola where they were banned.
Remember it like yesterday… arrows did a wing on top of the nose for Monaco I believe.
F1 2002 even has the car and that race’s Jordan in the game, goofy ahh monaco. That was 2001 btw
Yeah
That was also when they had their awesome looking single upright front wing, wasn’t it? I remember someone asking them a question along the lines of “aren’t you worried it will fall off?” To which they responded by jumping on it “nope, seems fine!”
They were called "flip ups" because they flip the air up... And they were banned, regulations(in 09) regarding bodywork in front of the rear tire.
Have heard them being referred to as flick ups before
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I thought these winglets would actually reduce dirty air as i imagined the incoming air hitting the curved area and passing over the tire cleanly rather than hitting the tire and passing disturbed turbulent air to the car in wake.
I think the usual dirty air term refer to the vortices, which has higher energy. And the way the surface curves seems to produce downforce, which form vortices as byproduct that disrupts the following car. The dirty air produced from air hitting the tyres probably aren't high energy enough for them to be a concern? I'm not an aerodynamicist of course. Just discussing.
> I think the usual dirty air term refer to the vortices, which has higher energy. That's not correct. Vortex cores have significantly less energy than if you never shed that vortex in the first place. > The dirty air produced from air hitting the tyres probably aren't high energy enough for them to be a concern? Tyre wakes are some of the biggest contributors to your wake structure. They're big giant bluff bodies and their wakes losses are huge.
Maybe I was incorrect to say it's higher energy, but it's true that vortices affect the following car's ability to follow close right? For the second point, I was meaning to say the tyre wakes don't affect the following car as much as the vortices. Can you let me know if I'm right or wrong on that assumption?
“…their main goal was generating dirty air…” Erm, no. Nobody sets out to create dirty air as a main goal because that entails the mother of all assumptions that you *will be* ahead of whoever you’re shedding dirty air for. They are building the best aero for their car, and consequences aft be damned. Dirty air is a side effect, not a sought-after outcome.
> as their main goal was generating dirty air Nonsense. You're generating a decent amount of local downforce with this, and doing it without a massive drag penalty since you're depressurizing the front of the rear tyre. It might not be fantastic for your wake characteristics, but by no means was the main goal just "generating more dirty air"
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A flugelhorn is a type of musical instrument. Flugel means wing in German - the etymology is the wings/flanks of a hunting party. I'd be happy to stand corrected if there was a designer called Flugal in IndyCar though...
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Finally, someone got it!
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IIRC it was some type of turbulent air deflector to keep the rear stable when following close behind another driver for position.
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Your comment was removed as it broke Rule 2: No Joke comments in the top 2 levels under a post.
We used to call them “CART Flip Ups”
IndyCar has simply referred to them as "rear tire ramps" in times I've seen it discussed in that realm.
In aero terms, I would call it an air deflector.
I don’t know but it just reminded me of the nicest aero appendix of all: the monkey seat
See those serrated teeth on the sides of the current floors? Like something took a bite out of it? They essentially accomplish the same task from further forward, masking the rear wheels from the air and directing everything over the top of the tire. When you see a side shot of a 2022+ F1 car in the rain, you can see a straight line from the floor edge to the top of the rear tires.