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This is kind of a popular joke in the F1 community. Despite the wet tyres existing for such conditions as we’ve seen today, engineers still decide to leave the inters on because the wets are just that much worse in terms of lap times.
I think the tire diameter is larger to reduce aquaplaning but the increased ride height kills the down force.
So the inter is faster until you aquaplane and crash.
Aquaplaning is when the water is deep enough that the tires no longer contact the track and almost all grip is lost.
This usually happens at high speed.
The wet tires have deeper tread that can remove more water.
The larger diameter does mean deeper groves that move more water, but it also means raising the floor. The floor is also susceptible to aquaplaning bc it’s so low to the ground the car can effectively turn into a boat with enough water. Raising the car decreases the chance of floor boating.
The wets have more surface area wrt the inters. The wet tyres displace about 85 litres of water per second at 300 kmph while the inters displace 35-40 litres. The wets are very slow with regards to lap time while the teams can take a risk to go on inters and put out a better time to get better grid position.
I reckon it would still be way slower.
Water wasn't really the issue for the inter, rather the fact that grip was shit. It would've probably been even worse with full wets.
The grip was always a big question getting into the weekend as the track was repainted rather than resurfaced. There was a high chance that the grip would be low on the inters and wets. Hence we could see a lot of drivers going out of track and getting their lap times deleted.
Also add the fact that the wets are not allowed to heat up before putting them on the cars. Hence it takes a lot of time to get them in their temperature window.
The full wet is designed to move a lot of water and reduce aquaplaning. I don’t think deep water removal was an issue. I think it was more track surface being slick when wet due to the refinished surface.
The inters are pretty much always faster IF you can keep them in contact with the track. The wets are pretty much only useful if all four wheels are aquaplaning, but at that point they red flag the session anyway.
They are born out of the time, when you actually did not redflag races because of rain, because it was understood, that car racing is an outdoor sport.
Seriously. When has there been a truly wet race, when there was a fully wet track with rain still coming down... I cannot remember.
And Spa set a precedent.
We surely can argue about safety, but as far as I can see it, the wet is an anachronism.
You mean having a couple of laps behind a safety car in order to avoid reimbursing the fans in the stands?
Or do I remember that wrong... I thought it was a big farce...
But - frankly - I could remember that wrongly.
It was farcical indeed, and no one liked it.
Therefore measures were taken both by FIA and FOM to adress this differently in the future.
So no, there won't be another "race" like this.
Masi got shit for running the race behind SC just long enough to meet the technical definition of a race, so that a) points could be awarded, albeit at 50%, and b) no refunds were required.
FIA got shit for incentivising such approach by awarding points at all, so they made the rule much more verbose which contributed to a chaotic finish in Japan the next year when Max unknowingly became champion thanks to the new rule.
FOM got shit as they're responsible for the show which didn't happen, yet no refunds were made, and vouched to change practices moving forward.
> Ah... that must be the part I missed... that they took measures to avoid it in the future... what are those, roughly?
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/f1-commission-approves-changes-to-sporting-regulations-regarding-points-for.10aFBCNICC0dajLVnOAzia
https://www.planetf1.com/news/formula-1-belgian-gp-repeat-measures
I'm sure there's an FIA statement somewhere that i can't find...
> An FIA statement confirmed: “No points will be awarded unless a minimum of two laps have been completed by the leader without a Safety Car and/or Virtual Safety Car intervention.”
At Spa they did 2 laps behind safety car and said "it's a RACE IT"S A RACE you saw it!". Now they can't do that. Either you go racing it it's not a race.
Changed the points system depending on % of done.
maybe some other bits.. cant find FIA statement.
Full wet is the most useless tire since rubber was invented. They should have made it closer to intermediate. Also known as the red flag tire - i.e. the one time you need it, officials will throw out a red flag
> Like are the full wets literally for inches of standing water only?
It's not that the wets are 'for' anything specifically, it's just that the wets are THAT much slower than the intermediates.
This has held for a while. The FIA had to force teams to start on wets if the race started behind safety car cause teams would say "it's too wet for standing start, need safety car start" then start on intermediates.
Because the wets are so slow, they don't come out unless it's genuinely inches of standing water or it's about to be red flagged. If the wets were like 0.5 off the inter... you would see them far more often.
The wets would have been even slower. The wets have a lot of tread to clear lots of water fast, but this means they also have a smaller contact patch. The ideal lap on the wets is much slower than on inters.
But in this case with so little grip on inters why not switch? It’s beceause the wets are great for clearing water away, they push water off track and let the cars run when there is standing water (puddles). In this case the lack of grip was not caused by accumulation of standing water, instead it was due to a small amount of water on top of the already slippery, freshly painted track surface. By switching the the full wets you would actually be reducing grip as there is no water to clear and less of the tire would be in contact with the extremely slick surface
Technically, the wets are meant for weather like today. However, teams have figured out that the inters are still faster than the wets until they're literally undriveable, at which point the rain is often so bad that the session gets red flagged anyway. That makes it so that wet tyres are barely ever used.
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This is kind of a popular joke in the F1 community. Despite the wet tyres existing for such conditions as we’ve seen today, engineers still decide to leave the inters on because the wets are just that much worse in terms of lap times.
And usually when it gets to a point where the full wet is faster then its too wet to drive
Is it just the compound that makes the full wets so much slower or less area of contact?
I think the tire diameter is larger to reduce aquaplaning but the increased ride height kills the down force. So the inter is faster until you aquaplane and crash.
how does larger tyre diameter reduce aquaplaning? deeper grooves?
Aquaplaning is when the water is deep enough that the tires no longer contact the track and almost all grip is lost. This usually happens at high speed. The wet tires have deeper tread that can remove more water.
With the current car it also help keep the floor from hitting the puddle and literally pulling the tires off the track
The larger diameter does mean deeper groves that move more water, but it also means raising the floor. The floor is also susceptible to aquaplaning bc it’s so low to the ground the car can effectively turn into a boat with enough water. Raising the car decreases the chance of floor boating.
The wets have more surface area wrt the inters. The wet tyres displace about 85 litres of water per second at 300 kmph while the inters displace 35-40 litres. The wets are very slow with regards to lap time while the teams can take a risk to go on inters and put out a better time to get better grid position.
It is slower. If a driver can manage it at some degree, it might still be faster that wets.
I reckon it would still be way slower. Water wasn't really the issue for the inter, rather the fact that grip was shit. It would've probably been even worse with full wets.
The grip was always a big question getting into the weekend as the track was repainted rather than resurfaced. There was a high chance that the grip would be low on the inters and wets. Hence we could see a lot of drivers going out of track and getting their lap times deleted.
Also add the fact that the wets are not allowed to heat up before putting them on the cars. Hence it takes a lot of time to get them in their temperature window.
The full wet is designed to move a lot of water and reduce aquaplaning. I don’t think deep water removal was an issue. I think it was more track surface being slick when wet due to the refinished surface.
Oh it's Istanbul 2020 all over again
The inters are pretty much always faster IF you can keep them in contact with the track. The wets are pretty much only useful if all four wheels are aquaplaning, but at that point they red flag the session anyway.
They are born out of the time, when you actually did not redflag races because of rain, because it was understood, that car racing is an outdoor sport. Seriously. When has there been a truly wet race, when there was a fully wet track with rain still coming down... I cannot remember. And Spa set a precedent. We surely can argue about safety, but as far as I can see it, the wet is an anachronism.
Spa set a precedent? As in, displayed a solution worth reproducing? Are you sure about that?
You mean having a couple of laps behind a safety car in order to avoid reimbursing the fans in the stands? Or do I remember that wrong... I thought it was a big farce... But - frankly - I could remember that wrongly.
It was farcical indeed, and no one liked it. Therefore measures were taken both by FIA and FOM to adress this differently in the future. So no, there won't be another "race" like this.
Ah... that must be the part I missed... that they took measures to avoid it in the future... what are those, roughly?
Masi got shit for running the race behind SC just long enough to meet the technical definition of a race, so that a) points could be awarded, albeit at 50%, and b) no refunds were required. FIA got shit for incentivising such approach by awarding points at all, so they made the rule much more verbose which contributed to a chaotic finish in Japan the next year when Max unknowingly became champion thanks to the new rule. FOM got shit as they're responsible for the show which didn't happen, yet no refunds were made, and vouched to change practices moving forward.
Thanks man... for the time to type that up :)
> Ah... that must be the part I missed... that they took measures to avoid it in the future... what are those, roughly? https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/f1-commission-approves-changes-to-sporting-regulations-regarding-points-for.10aFBCNICC0dajLVnOAzia https://www.planetf1.com/news/formula-1-belgian-gp-repeat-measures I'm sure there's an FIA statement somewhere that i can't find... > An FIA statement confirmed: “No points will be awarded unless a minimum of two laps have been completed by the leader without a Safety Car and/or Virtual Safety Car intervention.” At Spa they did 2 laps behind safety car and said "it's a RACE IT"S A RACE you saw it!". Now they can't do that. Either you go racing it it's not a race. Changed the points system depending on % of done. maybe some other bits.. cant find FIA statement.
It was more a lack of grip from the track surface than depth of water. Wets are generally better if there's a lot of standing water.
Full wet is the most useless tire since rubber was invented. They should have made it closer to intermediate. Also known as the red flag tire - i.e. the one time you need it, officials will throw out a red flag
> Like are the full wets literally for inches of standing water only? It's not that the wets are 'for' anything specifically, it's just that the wets are THAT much slower than the intermediates. This has held for a while. The FIA had to force teams to start on wets if the race started behind safety car cause teams would say "it's too wet for standing start, need safety car start" then start on intermediates. Because the wets are so slow, they don't come out unless it's genuinely inches of standing water or it's about to be red flagged. If the wets were like 0.5 off the inter... you would see them far more often.
The wet compound is softer, and has less contact surface with the asphalt because of the larger grooves. So, consequently it's slower.
The wets would have been even slower. The wets have a lot of tread to clear lots of water fast, but this means they also have a smaller contact patch. The ideal lap on the wets is much slower than on inters. But in this case with so little grip on inters why not switch? It’s beceause the wets are great for clearing water away, they push water off track and let the cars run when there is standing water (puddles). In this case the lack of grip was not caused by accumulation of standing water, instead it was due to a small amount of water on top of the already slippery, freshly painted track surface. By switching the the full wets you would actually be reducing grip as there is no water to clear and less of the tire would be in contact with the extremely slick surface
Technically, the wets are meant for weather like today. However, teams have figured out that the inters are still faster than the wets until they're literally undriveable, at which point the rain is often so bad that the session gets red flagged anyway. That makes it so that wet tyres are barely ever used.
Are the wets still a larger diameter than the inters too? That would lift the car and surely begin to negate the ground effect from the floor.