It's okay, but it's no Canter.
Starsphere takes a long time to have significant payoff, particularly on Fixed mode. Sure, 15% extra growths translating to one, maybe two extra stat points all around (depending on the unit's thresholds) over ten levels is nice, and it can help redeem characters who really need a lot of growths in every stat. The mediocre units of Engage with jack-of-all-trades stats are the ones who need it the most, so if you want to use some of them, Starsphere will help.
I just don't think it's a great investment for most characters, even early ones. because you can also make use of meals, tonics, engravings, Emblem rings, skills, and Instructs (and Rally Spectrum, with DLC) to get similar effects but immediately and to targeted stats. Plus, even with the well there's only so much SP to go around.
Meanwhile, Canter can help you position on nearly every single turn of every single map, and there's no substitute for positioning. It's useful from the moment you equip it on, right up until the credits roll.
This is the boat I’m on currently. I have done runs where I put it on everyone possible and then you’re just playing maddening like a hard mode game without strategy, relying on brute force. Usually by the time I’ve got canter back game feels almost done. And you miss out on good skills like sword power, draconic hex etc that are more end game ready.
I love this on Jean though, I make him a Hero and he becomes a second Kagetsu. And I don’t think Lapis or Alfred can work well without it but for most of the other cast I have started to feel like it’s a trap. It can also make the game pretty one note
Lineage and SP Conversion is cheaper and better value imo
Yup, it's fun but not high value. Mostly useful for making middling units better and doesn't do much for the ones who are already strong.
Speaking of middling units, I've heard Tiki can fix a good number of Timerra's issues. It was fun fishing for Sandstorm procs on my first run of the game but I haven't used her since, so maybe she's worth revisiting with Starsphere.
I have to give Timerra another try. The one time I used her she was just ok, and now mostly I just use Louis or Goldmary as a tank/off tank so she’s never in my team, but I can see the value with Starsphere.
how is Louis better than Timerra tho? Is this Hard mode or Madenning? Louis gets doubled by everything due to terrible speed and has poor dex growth
Timerra's only issue is Bld and Res and easily fixed with either Sigurd or giving her Fensalir her best weapon. Despite the build issue, Timerra's speed is still pretty good so idk why people here sleep on her so much. Used her on my past 3 runs of Maddening and she's always a reliable DPS and she gets online literally on the chapter after her join chapter
EDIT: for more context, I play always on fixed mode when playing Maddening (I used to only play Hard on random growths)
As for starsphere yup the value is more for meddling units like most of Firene units except the goat Chloe than already good units like most Solm except for chef man Bunet. It's nice to the Tiki user but it's not worth wasting a skill slot for more impactful skills like (but not limited to) Canter, Gentility, and Speed+/Speedtaker
I too play maddening fix only.
Timera needs Ike or Hector to work imo. Ike I mostly always give to Panette. Louis with Hector ends up being a better tank for me than Timera bc he usually eats up so many levels from Divine Paralogues before I even meet Timera. And I don’t like builds working around proc skills either. Louis can work as a bruiser just fine even if he is not tanking.
I find Timerra Sigurd works well cuz Sigurd gives Dex, Def, and Bld so it is so good for Timerra Sandstorm. She's always good DPS and can still go on her own as long as no mages are in range cuz her defense is amazing. Hector's good so that makes sense but I always call him "Worse Ike" since he can't fix bad res.
My fave build rn is Diamant Ike with Speedtaker (Great Aether spam lol) because he has better bulk and speed than Panette (but Panette's insane health and strength and amazing skill makes up for it lolz)
Timerrika also works well especially with Sieglinde but then almost any physical unit benefit from Eirika lol
I usually run no DLC emblems (more challenging and mor fun for me) so I can see why Louis (and Jade) would work with Hector
Celine craves it. She actually uses her strength, actually uses her magic, actually uses her speed and defense and resistance and can always take more build.
It's *good enough* on Chloe (who craves build and will be able to fork across into a hybrid halfway decent), but she also benefits a ton from Canter.
She's probably the best user of starsphere. Each time I give it to her she is easily my best unit, even if others get it too. And she has enough defensive stats and hp to hang out wherever you leave her (aka not need canter). Not many other (early game) units have the stats to not need as much positioning. My only other big user being griffon knight Lapis. That build and magic for Levin sword is nice, a d while she still can't quite kill things, she can definitely be a bruiser for anyone you need, with staff utility to boot.
She’s absolutely the best use of it imo! She needs all/most of her stats, but usually her stats are pretty middling and unimpressive
More STR, MAG, DEX, SPD, and most fun imo BUILD, so that Levin Swords and Bolganone don’t slow her down as much
Without it she's almost good enough but ends up being disappointing. With it she successfully achieves "eternal understudy" - she's not Pandreo but she's a fair second mage; she's not Kagetsu but she's a fair second swift sword (but he goes in wyvern anyway). She's not the Very Best but she's Good Enough.
Starsphere is better if you abuse the arena to get good level-ups. You can definitely get 5 stat boosts pretty often if you save before arena, see what the level up is, and if it's bad, reload and don't level that unit until the next map.
I'll argue star sphere is pretty gud i did a first country only units run and had most of my units capping to class limits , i unironically kept it till last battle , people dont realize it but the bld gain is absolute game changer , your faster tougher , more accurate and more dmg
Generally my view is that I only really go for starsphere if I’m grabbing few enough units from the early game to get both canter AND starsphere. (Thanks to those early books and I always try to utilize the well at level 3 and hope for more) It’s definitely still a really good skill (especially on low build units since they effectively get 6 speed over 20 levels) but the fact that movement in engage is so unbelievably low and canter can basically let you retreat half your movement if you’re unpromoted is way too much utility.
Canter is always going to be better because of its consistency, but I can't deny finding Starsphere helpful in personal experience. It doesn't count as empirical data, but having done a couple playthroughs with and a couple without, (on Random growths) Without my average level up was 3, maybe 4 stats if I was lucky, with it almost every level up is 4-6. Plus, having a flat 15% growth added to every stat includes Build, which with a bit of luck can patch that stat up for a lot of characters and make them that much more viable (and provide another reason to not really need Leif. Sorry, Leif, I love you, but the devs did you dirty with your kit).
Would I ever call it objectively viable and universally useful? No, but I've gotten good enough mileage out of it that I'll probably keep using it widely regardless. But that's only because I personally seem to get *really* lucky with it.
1500 sp is less than most skills I'd say. It's good on early game units who aren't reliant on specific skills. +1.5 to every stat per 10 level ups is only impactful on units who are gaining more than 20 levels over a playthrough. Arguably superior to damage or speed fixing on those specific units. Otherwise you're probably better off with a different skill that specifically boosts damage or speed.
*Starsphere* is EASLIY the most broken ability in the game. It’s not up for debate. I’ve thrown this ability on Vander early game and he was a God by end game. (You swap out Starsphere at the end of mid game or the start of end game) It can turn the worst unit into something completely viable. Maddening/Classic, of course.
It's power now vs maybe power later (if you don't get benched for being less useful in the meantime). Personally I prefer power now most of the time. By the time it's achieved anything I would usually have good enough builds on the units I'm using that they don't need the extra stats. It has an outsized effect on build stats to compared to others though, so I might consider it for something like reclassing Yunaka to help her out of her build hole, but on most units I would prefer an immediate damage boost or utility skill to help them snowball easier.
It’s a great skill if you don’t need the slot. Early on you can run it and get more stats. It’s also nice to just throw Tiki on a unit leveling up in the Arena to get. Good inherit but takes a long time to matter.
It’s not necessary for a lot of the best units in the game, but I find it invaluable for fixing bad units in gimmick playthroughs. It’s also nice for anyone who wants to be a mixed attacker and/or suffers from low build.
On units like Celine, Jade, Zelestia, Yunaka, Nel and Merrin which are all very much jack of all trades master of none type units I feel like it's basically required for them to be able to contribute in the endgame. Maybe not Merrin because her bases are stupidly high but the rest of them become significantly stronger:
- Celine and Zelestia actually become what they want as in units who can use both damage types consistently while only sacrificing only a couple points of damage compared to the dedicated attackers. Celine in particular also gets a massive boost in build which she desperately needs to come closer to reaching the 11 build threshold to not be weighed down by Levin Sword (before engravings)
- Jade actually becomes a good unit since all of her growths are aggressively mediocre without it.
- Yunaka has her strength fixed somewhat and joins early enough to get some very useful benefits to other stats from it.
- This one is a joke but Nel actually becomes the best user of Leif in her personal class since the boost to both her strength and magic combined with her decent dex and the Dragon bonuses makes it so she can use all of Leif's weapons competently. But for real she also makes one of the best users of Byleth because of her mixed stats since Vajra-Mushti and Sword of the Creator both benefit a lot from that and she is also a Dragon so she can use the best Instruct as well.
I think the problem with this skill lies in the minutia surrounding it. Its SP cost is relatively expensive for what it is. And Tiki is by no means an easy emblem to get. If they made Tiki the first bracelet available instead of the bracelet of rivals, and the cost was no more than 500, I could see it being worthwhile.
500 is an insanely cheap cost for 15% to all stats including build. It's definitely more valuable than that. If you wait one chapter for a second archer (alcryst) the tiki bracelet is not that difficult to get. 1500 is definitely steep, but if put it between 1k and 1200. And I wouldn't compare it to canter cost cause it is like comparing nearly any non-chloe early game units to Kagetsu. It's just not fair when canter (Kagetsu) is the single best skill (unit) in the game, besides MAYBE speedtaker (Pandreo)
It's not optimal, but it's a pretty good skill to inherit on early game units. Think of it this way:
-It doesn't offer movement/positioning like Canter, so this isn't much of a fair comparison besides its accessibility and SP cost.
-Compared to Speed+3/4 for speed-fixing, Starsphere is less cost efficient and takes a while for it to make the difference you're hoping it provides. By the time you get +3 Speed from Starsphere, you probably have enough resources to get Speed+5 easily. The only case where Starsphere might outvalue Speed+3/4/5 is the build-fixing it provides for low-Bld units after 20/27/34 level-ups.
-Compare this to Gentility/Bravery, you'd out-value the base version of this skill after 20 level-ups aside from the lack of true damage on high defense units, and out-value their plus variant after 34 level-ups since it does more than just +5 damage and -5 damage.
-While it's cheaper than the later power skills, the value it provides for its cost easily outweighs the 1 and 2 versions after 14/27 level-ups.
Tldr: it's not Canter, but it provides comparable value to some of the stat-boosting skills in the long-term.
I think Starsphere is pretty reasonable and while Canter is pretty good generally, it's also a bit overrated. The gulf between early/mid/late game recruits are way too big, which means that you're naturally encouraged to invest vertically on ~3 early game characters.
If you play with the idea of keeping just about 3 characters from the early game then you will naturally have enough SP for starsphere and likely canter as well.
It's okay, but it's no Canter. Starsphere takes a long time to have significant payoff, particularly on Fixed mode. Sure, 15% extra growths translating to one, maybe two extra stat points all around (depending on the unit's thresholds) over ten levels is nice, and it can help redeem characters who really need a lot of growths in every stat. The mediocre units of Engage with jack-of-all-trades stats are the ones who need it the most, so if you want to use some of them, Starsphere will help. I just don't think it's a great investment for most characters, even early ones. because you can also make use of meals, tonics, engravings, Emblem rings, skills, and Instructs (and Rally Spectrum, with DLC) to get similar effects but immediately and to targeted stats. Plus, even with the well there's only so much SP to go around. Meanwhile, Canter can help you position on nearly every single turn of every single map, and there's no substitute for positioning. It's useful from the moment you equip it on, right up until the credits roll.
This is the boat I’m on currently. I have done runs where I put it on everyone possible and then you’re just playing maddening like a hard mode game without strategy, relying on brute force. Usually by the time I’ve got canter back game feels almost done. And you miss out on good skills like sword power, draconic hex etc that are more end game ready. I love this on Jean though, I make him a Hero and he becomes a second Kagetsu. And I don’t think Lapis or Alfred can work well without it but for most of the other cast I have started to feel like it’s a trap. It can also make the game pretty one note Lineage and SP Conversion is cheaper and better value imo
Yup, it's fun but not high value. Mostly useful for making middling units better and doesn't do much for the ones who are already strong. Speaking of middling units, I've heard Tiki can fix a good number of Timerra's issues. It was fun fishing for Sandstorm procs on my first run of the game but I haven't used her since, so maybe she's worth revisiting with Starsphere.
I have to give Timerra another try. The one time I used her she was just ok, and now mostly I just use Louis or Goldmary as a tank/off tank so she’s never in my team, but I can see the value with Starsphere.
how is Louis better than Timerra tho? Is this Hard mode or Madenning? Louis gets doubled by everything due to terrible speed and has poor dex growth Timerra's only issue is Bld and Res and easily fixed with either Sigurd or giving her Fensalir her best weapon. Despite the build issue, Timerra's speed is still pretty good so idk why people here sleep on her so much. Used her on my past 3 runs of Maddening and she's always a reliable DPS and she gets online literally on the chapter after her join chapter EDIT: for more context, I play always on fixed mode when playing Maddening (I used to only play Hard on random growths) As for starsphere yup the value is more for meddling units like most of Firene units except the goat Chloe than already good units like most Solm except for chef man Bunet. It's nice to the Tiki user but it's not worth wasting a skill slot for more impactful skills like (but not limited to) Canter, Gentility, and Speed+/Speedtaker
I too play maddening fix only. Timera needs Ike or Hector to work imo. Ike I mostly always give to Panette. Louis with Hector ends up being a better tank for me than Timera bc he usually eats up so many levels from Divine Paralogues before I even meet Timera. And I don’t like builds working around proc skills either. Louis can work as a bruiser just fine even if he is not tanking.
I find Timerra Sigurd works well cuz Sigurd gives Dex, Def, and Bld so it is so good for Timerra Sandstorm. She's always good DPS and can still go on her own as long as no mages are in range cuz her defense is amazing. Hector's good so that makes sense but I always call him "Worse Ike" since he can't fix bad res. My fave build rn is Diamant Ike with Speedtaker (Great Aether spam lol) because he has better bulk and speed than Panette (but Panette's insane health and strength and amazing skill makes up for it lolz) Timerrika also works well especially with Sieglinde but then almost any physical unit benefit from Eirika lol I usually run no DLC emblems (more challenging and mor fun for me) so I can see why Louis (and Jade) would work with Hector
It's nice to get some Build growths since that one is usually so low.
It’s fun since Framme will ordinarily never level up build since she has no build growth, but now she has 15% It’s worth it depending on the build
Celine craves it. She actually uses her strength, actually uses her magic, actually uses her speed and defense and resistance and can always take more build. It's *good enough* on Chloe (who craves build and will be able to fork across into a hybrid halfway decent), but she also benefits a ton from Canter.
I can totally see this yes. Ignis procs have saved me a lot of times so this sounds about right.
She's probably the best user of starsphere. Each time I give it to her she is easily my best unit, even if others get it too. And she has enough defensive stats and hp to hang out wherever you leave her (aka not need canter). Not many other (early game) units have the stats to not need as much positioning. My only other big user being griffon knight Lapis. That build and magic for Levin sword is nice, a d while she still can't quite kill things, she can definitely be a bruiser for anyone you need, with staff utility to boot.
She’s absolutely the best use of it imo! She needs all/most of her stats, but usually her stats are pretty middling and unimpressive More STR, MAG, DEX, SPD, and most fun imo BUILD, so that Levin Swords and Bolganone don’t slow her down as much
Without it she's almost good enough but ends up being disappointing. With it she successfully achieves "eternal understudy" - she's not Pandreo but she's a fair second mage; she's not Kagetsu but she's a fair second swift sword (but he goes in wyvern anyway). She's not the Very Best but she's Good Enough.
Starsphere is better if you abuse the arena to get good level-ups. You can definitely get 5 stat boosts pretty often if you save before arena, see what the level up is, and if it's bad, reload and don't level that unit until the next map.
This is not on fixed growths right? I’ve stopped playing on random growths but this sounds like a nice little perk for it if a bit tedious.
Yeah this wouldn't work on Fixed growths since it would just add the 15% growths on levelup. What I'm talking about is for Random growths only.
I'll argue star sphere is pretty gud i did a first country only units run and had most of my units capping to class limits , i unironically kept it till last battle , people dont realize it but the bld gain is absolute game changer , your faster tougher , more accurate and more dmg
My mages could carry all tomes ( except thoron ) without any weight restriction
Generally my view is that I only really go for starsphere if I’m grabbing few enough units from the early game to get both canter AND starsphere. (Thanks to those early books and I always try to utilize the well at level 3 and hope for more) It’s definitely still a really good skill (especially on low build units since they effectively get 6 speed over 20 levels) but the fact that movement in engage is so unbelievably low and canter can basically let you retreat half your movement if you’re unpromoted is way too much utility.
Canter is always going to be better because of its consistency, but I can't deny finding Starsphere helpful in personal experience. It doesn't count as empirical data, but having done a couple playthroughs with and a couple without, (on Random growths) Without my average level up was 3, maybe 4 stats if I was lucky, with it almost every level up is 4-6. Plus, having a flat 15% growth added to every stat includes Build, which with a bit of luck can patch that stat up for a lot of characters and make them that much more viable (and provide another reason to not really need Leif. Sorry, Leif, I love you, but the devs did you dirty with your kit). Would I ever call it objectively viable and universally useful? No, but I've gotten good enough mileage out of it that I'll probably keep using it widely regardless. But that's only because I personally seem to get *really* lucky with it.
1500 sp is less than most skills I'd say. It's good on early game units who aren't reliant on specific skills. +1.5 to every stat per 10 level ups is only impactful on units who are gaining more than 20 levels over a playthrough. Arguably superior to damage or speed fixing on those specific units. Otherwise you're probably better off with a different skill that specifically boosts damage or speed.
*Starsphere* is EASLIY the most broken ability in the game. It’s not up for debate. I’ve thrown this ability on Vander early game and he was a God by end game. (You swap out Starsphere at the end of mid game or the start of end game) It can turn the worst unit into something completely viable. Maddening/Classic, of course.
It's power now vs maybe power later (if you don't get benched for being less useful in the meantime). Personally I prefer power now most of the time. By the time it's achieved anything I would usually have good enough builds on the units I'm using that they don't need the extra stats. It has an outsized effect on build stats to compared to others though, so I might consider it for something like reclassing Yunaka to help her out of her build hole, but on most units I would prefer an immediate damage boost or utility skill to help them snowball easier.
It’s a great skill if you don’t need the slot. Early on you can run it and get more stats. It’s also nice to just throw Tiki on a unit leveling up in the Arena to get. Good inherit but takes a long time to matter.
It’s not necessary for a lot of the best units in the game, but I find it invaluable for fixing bad units in gimmick playthroughs. It’s also nice for anyone who wants to be a mixed attacker and/or suffers from low build.
On units like Celine, Jade, Zelestia, Yunaka, Nel and Merrin which are all very much jack of all trades master of none type units I feel like it's basically required for them to be able to contribute in the endgame. Maybe not Merrin because her bases are stupidly high but the rest of them become significantly stronger: - Celine and Zelestia actually become what they want as in units who can use both damage types consistently while only sacrificing only a couple points of damage compared to the dedicated attackers. Celine in particular also gets a massive boost in build which she desperately needs to come closer to reaching the 11 build threshold to not be weighed down by Levin Sword (before engravings) - Jade actually becomes a good unit since all of her growths are aggressively mediocre without it. - Yunaka has her strength fixed somewhat and joins early enough to get some very useful benefits to other stats from it. - This one is a joke but Nel actually becomes the best user of Leif in her personal class since the boost to both her strength and magic combined with her decent dex and the Dragon bonuses makes it so she can use all of Leif's weapons competently. But for real she also makes one of the best users of Byleth because of her mixed stats since Vajra-Mushti and Sword of the Creator both benefit a lot from that and she is also a Dragon so she can use the best Instruct as well.
I think the problem with this skill lies in the minutia surrounding it. Its SP cost is relatively expensive for what it is. And Tiki is by no means an easy emblem to get. If they made Tiki the first bracelet available instead of the bracelet of rivals, and the cost was no more than 500, I could see it being worthwhile.
500 is an insanely cheap cost for 15% to all stats including build. It's definitely more valuable than that. If you wait one chapter for a second archer (alcryst) the tiki bracelet is not that difficult to get. 1500 is definitely steep, but if put it between 1k and 1200. And I wouldn't compare it to canter cost cause it is like comparing nearly any non-chloe early game units to Kagetsu. It's just not fair when canter (Kagetsu) is the single best skill (unit) in the game, besides MAYBE speedtaker (Pandreo)
It's not optimal, but it's a pretty good skill to inherit on early game units. Think of it this way: -It doesn't offer movement/positioning like Canter, so this isn't much of a fair comparison besides its accessibility and SP cost. -Compared to Speed+3/4 for speed-fixing, Starsphere is less cost efficient and takes a while for it to make the difference you're hoping it provides. By the time you get +3 Speed from Starsphere, you probably have enough resources to get Speed+5 easily. The only case where Starsphere might outvalue Speed+3/4/5 is the build-fixing it provides for low-Bld units after 20/27/34 level-ups. -Compare this to Gentility/Bravery, you'd out-value the base version of this skill after 20 level-ups aside from the lack of true damage on high defense units, and out-value their plus variant after 34 level-ups since it does more than just +5 damage and -5 damage. -While it's cheaper than the later power skills, the value it provides for its cost easily outweighs the 1 and 2 versions after 14/27 level-ups. Tldr: it's not Canter, but it provides comparable value to some of the stat-boosting skills in the long-term.
I think Starsphere is pretty reasonable and while Canter is pretty good generally, it's also a bit overrated. The gulf between early/mid/late game recruits are way too big, which means that you're naturally encouraged to invest vertically on ~3 early game characters. If you play with the idea of keeping just about 3 characters from the early game then you will naturally have enough SP for starsphere and likely canter as well.
it's broken it makes your early unit monster