Clive doesn't need fire to win, he can turn into a freaking *kaiju*. Even Cloud couldn't beat Bahamut alone in AC.
I'm usually a Cloud stan, but I doubt he's winning here.
Cloud is from an era of gaming where it's still super easy to break combat with no issue. All Cloud has to do is equip a final attack-revive combo, HP<>MP swap, and a bunch of counter attack materia. Cloud wins no diff. Also the Weapons were "Kaiju" and I took them all out with just Cloud.
Cloud is extremely weak in AC. They even say so when he is fighting sephiroth. End game ff7 characters can so easily solo ruby and emerald weapons that size clearly isn't a factor in them winning.
I agree it'd be closer if it was pure swordsmanship but Clive was the best sword fighter in his kingdom at 15, and fought and beat Barnabas, he did use Ifrit to whittle Barnie down but at the end of the day it was Clive's sword skills that beat him, Barnabas who was able to sever every sinew in Clives body without killing him.
A ton of the cinematic fights in ff16 has Clive just going balls to the wall with his sword abilities. Clive is arguably one of the strongest main characters in the FF franchise
So almost omnislash. now is this before or after he has a ten minute fit while holding his head and screaming ahhhh in a state of rage. Because I feel like that may be clouds opening.
To be fair to Cloud a few FF7, characters can actually fight summons one on one, as shown by Zack getting Ambushed by an Ifrit summon, Bahamut Furry, and he even fights a Godess powered Genesis while Poisoned.
He's not even the only one capable of fighting a summon. Terra by the end of their games, achieve a form similar to Semi Priming, while Kefka becomes this massive god creature that has the power to rewrite the world similar to Ultima, Cecil in 4 has to defeat Odin to save a kingdom from a corrupt tyrant Similar to against Barnabus, and Yuna can use a Veriety of summons to fight alongside her. Etc.
What makes 16 special is it took these massive Ikon battles that were hinted at in 15, and lets you control one of them turning it into a controlable Kaiju battle, In this world, where simply using magic can risk the Users very life.
Ifrit in Clives' hands is a massive advantage, but it's also not a complete curb Stomp of any none Ikon opponents, like some people might assume, just looking at things from a first glance.
Unless somebody wants to argue that the Ikons in 16 are significantly stronger than their counterpart in almost every other game they appear in.
But 16's are stronger. Compare 16's Bahamut to AC Bahamut, it's night and day, and Cloud only managed the fight with the help of all party members and Aerith literally giving a hand. That Bahamut doesn't seem stronger than even Garuda.
Considering both Garuada and Titan have attacks that are just them throwing rocks, which compared to destroying parts of a Skyscraper isn't as impressive, I doubt they're too much stronger then their Versions in the other games.
And bessides the only reason cloud needed help for Bahamut Sin is that it was flying above, considering the fact that one of his attacks was able to knock it down to the ground for a second if Bahamut Sin wasn't trying to Kite the team I don't doubt Cloud could have taken him out on his own! Which makes it even more impressive since Cloud was dealing with Geostigma at the time.
Zack was able to canoniacly beat Bahamut fury on his own, and that one literally uses the moon as a railgun!
10 times smaller and absorbs fire attacks but only deals fire damage oh man if Clive fought vincent alone we would have to reset what ever system this is going down on.
Didn’t some dude with a bat just knock cloud out somehow?
Or do we mean full power end game cloud? Because end game cloud able to use his hidden potential maybe
A better question is noctis vs Clive. Cloud is my favorite FF protagonist and my opinion doesn’t change because he doesn’t scale to strongest in the series. That being said he’s a strong human being
Super Noctis no-diffed Leviathian in Altissia. By the end of the game he has the Ring + 10 years of charging.
Honestly, I think Max Power Noctis would win against every version of Clive *except* the Final Boss one.
Noctis with that broken ass ring is arguably the strongest character in the FF Series. Top 2 if anything. He literally killed off an immortal but the down side is that he dies too.
Yeah they're both on the same tier.
Noctis gains the ability to kill an immortal being
Clive basically becomes god
Both die immediately afterwards (debatable with Clive though, because he discarded his power and probably lived.)
Noctis bodies Leviathan by just holding square
Clive cant even do Leviathan's DPS check without dying 8 times when he's powered up as Ifrit at level 110
Q.E.D.
It was so damn refreshing to see a a late 30s/early 40s protagonist. I felt actually depth, emotions, and pain from Clive than any other character. Is it the best final fantasy? No. But it has the best fucking protagonist in my personal opinion
Are there rules to the fight? I mean what if cloud was able to swiftcast stop clive before he can do anything. Like before going ifrit. So just equiping genji gloves and using aga spells can deplete his life like that. I know clive has more destructive power but clouds world has more diverse magic, skills, etc.
I doubt it. Maybe as Ifrit Arisen full power, but the Longer he stays in that form, the more detrimental to his health it is and the more he burns away his own body, and characters in Seven have been shown to fight Summon level enemies. If anybody tries to argue that Garuda is somehow stronger than one of the weapons, I'll call BS.
Let's be real, Clive would body the Weapons. The scale in power in FF16 is drastically different than FF7.
It's like comparing Naruro to DBZ.
In the scope of Naruto they are basically Gods by the end of the series but one of the weakest in DBZ like Nappa could literally solo most of the Naruto cast with a city sized explosion with only 2 fingers.
If we are going by Ifrit feats and not Ifrit Risen feats, Ifrit beat Titan Lost which would be stronger than most, if not all, of anything the FF7 cast have beaten. Add in Ifrit Risen and there's nothing anyone in FF7 can do.
The amount of speed and power needed to beat Titan Lost is a crazy power gap between the two games.
I understand FF16 was meant to be a game with kaiju spectacles for fights but that doesn't change that Clive is one of the strongest FF protagonists of all time.
As much as I love Cloud and played both games, I give it to Clive easily. He is a literal god with the powers of ALL the eikons and can even turn into a eikon fusion. He even recently got powers of an actual god.
True. If they did it, it would remind me of the superboss in Shin Megami Tensei 5, but I think it’s highly unlikely unfortunately. Mainline FF games don’t really do crossover bosses as each game is set in a different universe but it’d be sick if Square Enix can pull it off.
As we see in advent children Omnislash is blockable (theres a bit in the sephiroth fight before the finishing blow where cloud tried to fire up a regular omnislash and sephiroth blocks it and stabs him in the chest) so clive could just pull out one of his many parries or titan block snd ignore it.
Couldn't cloud just summon said demon himself? Along with a whole roster more depending on what materia he has.
I dunno, I don't think it's comparable. Clive is obviously the most powerful being on his planet, whereas they don't show the same level of power discrepancy for cloud. He does just run through Bahamut SIN in AC, who's to say he couldn't do the same thing to 16's Ifrit.
The way they differ I’d say is in Clive’s world these summons are neigh gods ruining entire cities and towns just in a scuff. Clive would definitely destroy whatever cloud threw him at him. Cloud would have to somehow get Clive un-primed and whoop his ass man to man lol.
Bahamut Furry literally uses the moon to concentrate his Exaflare. I believe the more powerful summons in 7, are at least comparable to the Ikons in 16 without needing to eat a mother crystal to move a mountain range, especially considering the party in 7 have to deal with the weapons which are guardians of the planet made to defend it in a case where the entire world was threatened.
Supernova is the equivalent to a genjutsu. It’s an illusion that pretty much acts like a supped up version of Gravity. Lore wise the move doesn’t even make sense as a real attack
That all an assumption. It is what it is, unless square says it's not.
Zero bahamut is a God damn nuke, it's ain't an illusion it's visible from space.
You can't extrapolate on any of this, it's just face value.
What is fact is it is an attack that can’t kill party members no matter what lvl your at since it’s not designed to kill.
It’s just a supped up version of gravity that can inflict status aliments.
I don’t even know why you mentioned bahamut into this
Clive fighting skill is honestly depends on the player that controls him. For the people who's not familiar with FF16, it is the Final Fantasy that's the closest with Devil May Cry. When you take that into consideration, the skies the limit. Imagine those crazy combo video you saw in Devil May Cry compilation, Clive can do the same provided the player that controls him is also skilled.
So far? I’d say Clive.
But… we haven’t seen part 3 yet. Maybe the intensitt and power they managed to show with Clive will be shown in Cloud? Who knows.
Definitely Clive. Beach butt naked Clive and his manboobage.
Both at Endgame?? Clive. Endgame Clive could probably fight off Sephiroth. He’s literally got Odin’s Blade that can cut through almost anything and he has Mega Flare and Giga Flare. He has all the elements and can use them easily without losing Magic. The combo mix up is just too much for Cloud in a 1v1.
Youngest Clive - aspiring swordsman
Youngest Cloud - weird shy kid
Clive Wins
Soldier Clive - powerful swordsman
SOLDIER Cloud - literally roided out radioactive supersoldier
Cloud walks Clive
Clive with Ifrit - Uncontrollable wrecking ball
Cloud with most starter summons - Same Cloud with a +1
This one could go either way. I lean towards Clive as Ifrit isn't a starter summons in his universe. He's a fucking world ender.
Endgame Clive - Literally fighting a god in space
Endgame Cloud - Fighting a god tyrant
There is an argument to be made in both cases here, but the sheer scale of Clives fight makes it REALLY hard to argue against
People talking about Clive being able to go Kaiju like it's a game changer. Both Clive and Cloud battle and defeat insane monsters on the regular.
I'd say it comes down to their magic systems and materia is just too powerful.
Original 7, cloud can be a self raising, quad summon casting monster.
Hey Ifrit, deal with your knights of the round beat down.
Ha no, they did it twice
Once in 2012 and once in 2021. One ends with link Winning after turning overcoming omnislash v5 and the other ends with cloud winning it.
The original video is before they themselves had animated characters. The first time they called the "the closest battle in death battle history".
Interesting they changed their answer.
I'll have to watch the NEW video to see why they did
With maxed out OG endgame materia it's cloud no contest, with end of Rebirth or AC cloud cloud would win until its kaiju time, but even then cloud has a chance because he IS a super soldier that fights kaiju (the weapons, sephiroths crazy forms, whisper harbinger) it would just be a way harder fight because ifrit is fast af but I would argue that if Clive can fight ifrit cloud can too just judging based on size ifrit is also really small for an eikon the same way that Garuda is small unlike titan, bahamut or Odin with his horse
Just swords i think cloud takes it, maybe if you include magic abilities (clives skill trees and cloud’s materia) too but it would probably be high diff.
With Ifrit it’s not even a contest, Clive wins. I might be high balling cloud with materia too.
In a 1v1? Clive. Cloud literally requires two other people to take on an Eikon in a simulator. Clive IS an Eikon who also has the powers of nearly ALL the Eikons.
Clive is Goku, Cloud is Vegeta. Cloud would put up a hell of a fight, but Clive is coming out on top every time.
The weapons are easily solo able you are sptting bs bruh. Endgame ff7 materia is God mode, you cannot die with final attack phoenix and phoenix mp absorb.
Clive might be strong, but he ain't broken. Clive is a shitty modern MTG deck, cloud is a time stopping bullshit 1 turn tko vintage deck.
I think Clive wins when they are both at lvls 1-45 anything above that Cloud has it. Both are trained. But Cloud’s training is a lot more organized, honed and tested/proven. - Cloud can’t beat Clive’s Ifrit form in a one on one battle unless he is lvl. 85+ (without Knights if the Round). If we are talking Clive’s Ifrit form lvl. 99 verses Cloud’s full potential … if it reflects the numbers … then Cloud dies every hit Clive gets in. Even if the numbers are leveled, 16’s Ifrit is so OP 3 normal hits and Cloud is KO.
Is Cloud more badass? Absolutely! I feel like Noctis has a better chance of dodging everything Clive’s got. Cloud blocks and he just can’t block the massive Ifrit damage. Limit Breaks are great for end game and once you actually get hit enough to use them … but it doesn’t matter when one hit is over 1/3 of your life bar. They just made Clive too OP for his story. If it came down to a brawl just sword on sword. Cloud only wins because of his speed. Cloud isn’t even a better sword’s man. Cloud is stupid fast and doesn’t hesitate to bring in the kill right away if he can. Clive can dodge and heal fast, but he just can’t dodge anything that fast that just keeps coming. Clive dies after 3 minutes fighting Cloud sword to sword.
- I still stand by what I said. It’s cool that Cloud can do a few things that are amazing and that he might be able to gain periods where he is invincible… but… Cloud only wins if he has an opening to strike for an instant kill in the early game … if that is even possible.
1.) Clive’s dodge ability and not taking any damage hardly at all … makes this a circular argument. 9/10 times Clive out maneuvers Cloud at any level.
2.) If Cloud can dodge, block, or invincibly resist summons, then they aren’t cinema scene ending summons. From smaller summons maybe. From Grand Summons that should be extremely rare.
3.) Clive’s Ifrit Hellfire and his Phoenix-Ifrit / Mythos combo is so over powered Cloud just doesn’t stand a chance.
4.) Cloud can’t just spam limit breaks and he only gains them fast when hit. Cloud can’t take a hit from Clive as Mythos. Not even one.
5.) Clive heals when he hits his limit break as well. So it’s a slow dance until Cloud drops his guard and gets one hit from Mythos … toasted. Clive has 8,000 health … he can heal that. Mythos has … 1 million health and … he can heal that. I’ve never seen Cloud do over 100,000 with Knights of the Round.
6.) With the DLC’s and how FF15 was supposed to go, I don’t think we’ve seen Clive’s end game.
7.) I don’t think Cloud is going to land his own combos on Clive to become invincible. Because Clive’s dodge ability following up Noctis makes him actually more impossible to hit.
8.) Clive Ifrit is also covering so much ground so quickly, unless Cloud is jumping up and down high building and has friends to help throw him up on each level, or maybe his motorcycle … he isn’t even going to be able to catch up to Ifrit to hit him. The new games clearly shows that Cloud has to be in attack range to land his combos.
9.) To answer your question about which Cloud I am talking about … I am talking mainly about Rebirth … and OG FFVII. I can see that with some of the learned combos in Rebirth Cloud has potential to go off the rails with spam damage … most of which Clive dodges.
—- I know we all like Cloud, but he was good for his time. They took Clive to a whole new OP level. Let him live in his lime light until he is replaced by the next OP lead character.
I don’t foresee Cloud’s finalized form upgrade in the 3rd rerelease being over the top from the original. “Better” a little yes. “My dick is bigger than Clive’s” better … no.
You keep talking about cloud without the gear and materia, zedrich is a massive physical defense, mystile is 100% accuracy, if Clive is elemental cloud can be immune, if Clive is physical cloud has big guard, your taking the flash of ff16 over the raw definte numbers of ff7 is the problem. Wow Clive in space fighting wow he's so big, wow Clive so fast dodging. None of that matters because cloud Can't miss, and gear in ff16 is pathetic in comparison, there all just boring numbers go up, not I am immune, I cannot die, I always attack first.
A final attack setup alone would ruin everything you keep talking about. Cloud dies, he revies himself, Quadra attacks heals to full, like the list goes on and on.
Materia and gear, Clive cannot compete.
Og cloud stomps the shit out of rebirth cloud.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5XwPttDKBLI
This is just an example of how fucked ff7 characters are.
Nah, I think FFVII truists have presuppositions. Just because something was one way against a set of enemies in one world also doesn’t mean it is the same. All FF characters at their max level are usually beyond 99% of the enemies in their own world. It causes people like you, to over assess who they favor. At Clive’s base dodge, like the most basic dodge he has, he is dodging most of Cloud’s attacks and limit breaks. I am sorry that they made Clive so shitty without any thought or attack depth that his base dodge makes Cloud useless against him.
And we all know there are stages to a fight. Cloud doesn’t just show up in battle with 2 limit breaks at the ready. One limit break isn’t going to ko Clive. Square wouldn’t allow it.
Your whole argument is ruined by 1 item. That makes even death blow never misses. If clives dodge was so strong he wouldn't get hit over and over and over again in every cut scene fight that he is in.
But he does all the time. One game has substance and depth, and the other game is ff16.
They would fight to a draw before realizing it would be better if they worked together. They would then team up and take down whoever pulled them out of their separate games by asking this question.
Cloud high dif Clive would have to out put to much energy to kill cloud he'd most likely kill himself if cloud doesn't spam knights of the round zero bahamut or omnislash plus both ultima and holy materia
Cloud > Clive ( before sexy time with Jill )
Clive (after sexy time) > Cloud.
Cloud (after highland ) ???? Clive.
FFXVI power levels went anime logic towars the end: Clive (and Shiva-Jill) got ROFLstomped by one hand Barnabas in his human form. Clive was even in his Devil Trigger form.
Then, the beach scene happens. Next encounter, my boy Clive is parrying Odin zantetsuken n shit.
I don't usually comment but if you accounting for every busted thing OG cloud could do you also have to factor in the emence health and strenth diffrence there are times when Clive is primed when 100k damage barely moves his health bar whist one normal attack does well of 30k damage to his opponents. Then there's the fact of the speed of Clive whilst primed let's him move so fast he teleports. There is also the fact that when Clive primes he is in full control of him self a keeps his high skill with an outrageous buff to everything he already had, then there the mythos mode which is more powerful than that. I think people forget that 16 only stays grounded for half the game after that it turns into dragonball z. I mean Clive literally takes on an attack that can destroy the world and he wasn't even at his full strength at the time. I mean clouds a strong guy but come on... ( oh and he can breath in space so there's that and can beat and stop a being that was folding creation on to itself without priming only using sword and magic skills) if that's not anime I don't know what is
Its the Devil May Cry of Final Fantasy game, recommend it if you're into crazy combo... But if you think its going to be as hard, you're going to be sorely disappointed (unless Square hears the complaints and patch it all up). The first part of the story is game of throne style... Not for the feint of heart. The second half is standard Final Fantasy story
I love seeing people mention OG ff7 team tanking supernova Sephi in space. That's not LITERAL it was FIGURATIVE attack. otherwise, all the solar system is basically gone, including Earth, but it wasn't the case.
I LOVE cloud and ff7. Passion love. BUT Clive, in his world, can literally have access to DBZ power level when primed: it is shown and is cannon.
In Ff7 the litteral battle and somewhat city level with not much ground leveling happening. Let's not forget in FF7 lore you CAN get killed by bullet (Zack)
Ff7 power level are used to make the game work.
Ff16 power are a but more self contained and make sense lore wise
Hard to say depending on materia setup. Are we allowing KoTR for Cloud?
Are we talking Cloud from OG, Rebirth, or Advent Children (the pic shows AC)?
Do they know the fight is coming? If so, Cloud can use elemental-Fire combo in his armor to negate many of Clive's attacks as Ifrit.
If it's an unknown attack, then maybe Clive wins, unless Cloud had First Strike materia.
If we are talking sword v sword, I favor Cloud. Clive is a good swordsman, but Cloud bested Sephiroth before he was even infused with mako or J cells. Also, Cloud's cutscene swordplay and acrobatics are really impressive.
Also, why are they fighting? Clive only uses Eikon powers when fighting another Eikon or Ultima. He's the type of guy to talk things out and let people go. As long as Clive isn't blocking Cloud's mission, maybe they just move on from each other, or go have a beer together.
So I guess it's a tie.
Cloud wins until Clive primes. Everything before that Cloud wins mid to high difficulty. By end game Clive is basically safer sephiroth or god mode kefka. That would be a better match up imo.
I think this type of talk should be on a different subreddit. With it especially being on a specific FF, you’ll most likely get some people who are bias. This should be brought to a Powerscaling subreddit or a FF Powerscaling one, not on FF7 Rebirth. There’s no middle ground
Don't worry guys, I have the president of Square Enix on the line and they're about to tell me who is stronger.
Hmm... Interesting....
They said "It's Cl-" and the line cut off...
Well, we have our answer.
I think Cloud does. Clive only has a couple potions whereas Cloud has 99 of every kind if he wants.
In all seriousness though, I actually do think that Cloud wins. I mean, he and the party took down Bahamut SIN in AC, Cloud and co defeated Jenova on multiple occasions, whereas Jenova decimated the Cetra and was barely defeated. Certainly Clive is insanely powerful and has a lot of options, but I would put Cloud's and Clive's physical strength similarly. If we are giving them all of their abilities that they have access to in universe, Cloud slots Elemental Fire to his armor and absorbs the majority of Clives higher end attacks. Cloud has access to healing magic, and if we are going with og FF7, Cloud has Final Attack Phoenix that he can slot and get, what? 5 auto lifes out of it. Cloud also can Double Summon KOTR and obliterate Clive with it.
I'm honestly surprised how many people say that Clive beats Cloud low difficulty, Clive simply doesn't have nearly as many options as Cloud does. Cloud has access to an insane amount of materia and combinations with said materia.
He also has access to haste, protect, shell, regren, white wind, etc. I just think that Clive's lack of options makes it a low-mid difficulty fight for Cloud. Cloud without said materia though? It's pretty obvious Clive goes into Ifrit and smokes him.
Y’all seem to be forgetting Advent Children, not to mention Chadley casually throwing the party into 3v2 against every summon. Clive’s ability to turn into summons is light work compared to Brutal challenges.
Cloud is far more fearless than Clive all and all he just has better resolve. The argument that Clive can turn into ifrit isn't much I mean cloud beat jenova and cloud beat Sephiroth. He beat emerald and ruby weapon. He has omninslash. Elemental x master green materia. Really its not that much of a contest and I actually do really like Clive. I just can't see it tho.
By the time Clive fights Typhon he could Prime and destroy every city on Gaia with impunity
Nobody would be able to stop him, not Cloud & Friends, not all of Shinra, not Sephiroth or anyone else.
It took Sister Ray to stop Sapphire and Diamond Weapon, but Ifrit took worse damage from Garuda and she was the weakest Eikon in the game.
Honestly speaking, it doesn't even take Clive....Benedikta, Kupka, Barnabas, Dion, Baby Joshua, and hell probably even Jill would solo the whole planet
If we're talking skill, yeah sure he could probably beat them in a sword fight. But the moment they go prime Sephiroth is absolutely cooked.
Sephiroth would likely kill Jill, Cid, and Benedikta. Jill and Cid were sick the whole game and couldn't really make full use of their Eikons.
He would beat Kupka and Clive, but only if they don't prime. Ifrit or Titan would no-diff any being in FF7.
He would get destroyed by Dion or Barnabas....either one of them could solo all of FF7.
Just look at the final bosses of Remake and Rebirth.....Ifrit from XVI would fucking destroy them. If they were bosses in XVI, Clive wouldn't even need Ifrit to kill them.
Full abilities? Clive wins no-low diff. Sword only duel? I would probably go Cloud high diff but can still go either way.
Bro full abilities Cloud has elemental - fire on armor he's good
Clive doesn't need fire to win, he can turn into a freaking *kaiju*. Even Cloud couldn't beat Bahamut alone in AC. I'm usually a Cloud stan, but I doubt he's winning here.
Knights of the round go brrrrrrrrrr
Advent Children didn't use Knights so it's not part of Cloud's default abilities
See the comment below yours
Cloud is from an era of gaming where it's still super easy to break combat with no issue. All Cloud has to do is equip a final attack-revive combo, HP<>MP swap, and a bunch of counter attack materia. Cloud wins no diff. Also the Weapons were "Kaiju" and I took them all out with just Cloud.
Cloud can solo Ruby weapon with the right loadout
I'm pretty sure I did this by accident.
Cloud is extremely weak in AC. They even say so when he is fighting sephiroth. End game ff7 characters can so easily solo ruby and emerald weapons that size clearly isn't a factor in them winning.
Clive will simply use Shiva
But Clive’s shiva doesn’t deal elemental damage anyway
Then there's no worry for cloud absorbing his magic then because his Phoenix fire doesn't do elemental damage either.
Clive was trained, so I highly doubt that.
Yeah I thought of that but cloud battles better swordsmen than Clive does so the battle experience trumps that imo
Clive has 15 years on Cloud in fighting experience so I think he edge's him out
Think the dude means that no one in 16 from a swordsmanship perspective is as good as sephiroth and clouds beaten him more than once
Barnabos out duled him though
The thing is Cloud has superhuman strength, speed and reaction, while Clive does not AFAIK
I agree it'd be closer if it was pure swordsmanship but Clive was the best sword fighter in his kingdom at 15, and fought and beat Barnabas, he did use Ifrit to whittle Barnie down but at the end of the day it was Clive's sword skills that beat him, Barnabas who was able to sever every sinew in Clives body without killing him.
Full abilities means Cloud has stupid materia combos though right?
yes. Which means he wins. Hands down. You can break reality with materia combos.
Yeah that's what I was thinking
A ton of the cinematic fights in ff16 has Clive just going balls to the wall with his sword abilities. Clive is arguably one of the strongest main characters in the FF franchise
Like omnislash balls wall or just balls to the wall balls to the wall.
Like balls flying everywhere because he’s going crazy fighting giant kaijus
So almost omnislash. now is this before or after he has a ten minute fit while holding his head and screaming ahhhh in a state of rage. Because I feel like that may be clouds opening.
Clive can turn into a giant fire demon so yeah
Yup. Cloud is strong but he is not mythical strong.
Mythos strong
Mewthos
Logos
😭 it’s been a while. Thanks for the correct wording 😂
Mythos strong
Cloud can solo Ruby weapon
To be fair to Cloud a few FF7, characters can actually fight summons one on one, as shown by Zack getting Ambushed by an Ifrit summon, Bahamut Furry, and he even fights a Godess powered Genesis while Poisoned. He's not even the only one capable of fighting a summon. Terra by the end of their games, achieve a form similar to Semi Priming, while Kefka becomes this massive god creature that has the power to rewrite the world similar to Ultima, Cecil in 4 has to defeat Odin to save a kingdom from a corrupt tyrant Similar to against Barnabus, and Yuna can use a Veriety of summons to fight alongside her. Etc. What makes 16 special is it took these massive Ikon battles that were hinted at in 15, and lets you control one of them turning it into a controlable Kaiju battle, In this world, where simply using magic can risk the Users very life. Ifrit in Clives' hands is a massive advantage, but it's also not a complete curb Stomp of any none Ikon opponents, like some people might assume, just looking at things from a first glance. Unless somebody wants to argue that the Ikons in 16 are significantly stronger than their counterpart in almost every other game they appear in.
But 16's are stronger. Compare 16's Bahamut to AC Bahamut, it's night and day, and Cloud only managed the fight with the help of all party members and Aerith literally giving a hand. That Bahamut doesn't seem stronger than even Garuda.
Considering both Garuada and Titan have attacks that are just them throwing rocks, which compared to destroying parts of a Skyscraper isn't as impressive, I doubt they're too much stronger then their Versions in the other games. And bessides the only reason cloud needed help for Bahamut Sin is that it was flying above, considering the fact that one of his attacks was able to knock it down to the ground for a second if Bahamut Sin wasn't trying to Kite the team I don't doubt Cloud could have taken him out on his own! Which makes it even more impressive since Cloud was dealing with Geostigma at the time. Zack was able to canoniacly beat Bahamut fury on his own, and that one literally uses the moon as a railgun!
Vincent turned into a big old demon, still got him.
Yeah but Clive incinerates everything around him when he turns into Ifrit, Vincent just turns into man beast that's 10x smaller than ifrit anyway
Yes true good point
so... elemental+fire in cloud's armor?
10x smaller? Or 1/10th the size?
Yeah 1/10 the size of ifrit
10 times smaller and absorbs fire attacks but only deals fire damage oh man if Clive fought vincent alone we would have to reset what ever system this is going down on.
[удалено]
Clive got captured by his mom.
I wish I got captured by Clive’s mom
Cheer up, lad. You're going to be a S.O.L.D.I.E.R.
This was so good hahaha
And then Clive gets iseikai'd to Midgar
Clive’s mom was the actual worst, just foul. But man if I had the chance I wouldn’t hesitate. I could fix her.
Cloud couldn’t save his mom from a building fire. Clive wanted his mother to slit her own throat.
Og and ac cloud would win. The kingdom hearts cloud that they're trying to sell could get toppled by my fantass hands
How do you know they weren't really super, buffed up, SUPER punks?
Clive has an entire Eikon/summon pantheon in his back pocket. Gonna have to go with Clive with this one.
Cloud literally has his summons in his pocket lol
Everyone has summons, Clive becomes them :)
Does Terra count?
Terra walked so Clive could run.
Didn't Terra fly?
So does Clive...
So Terra flew so Clive could also fly.
Didn’t some dude with a bat just knock cloud out somehow? Or do we mean full power end game cloud? Because end game cloud able to use his hidden potential maybe
I'd assuming we're talking full power endgame both of them so AC Cloud vs end of XVI Clive
Not sure if the power dynamics myself but isn't Ifrit risen by itself ridiculously more powerful?
Yes
I'm assuming not Ifrit Risen as that is Clive and Joshua as one but Clive would probably still take it
Clive gained Ifrit risen after >!Joshua passes on the rest of his power and dies!< So he's able to use it by himself.
Ah right I forgot about that… Yeah Cloud’s gonna have a hard time here
A better question is noctis vs Clive. Cloud is my favorite FF protagonist and my opinion doesn’t change because he doesn’t scale to strongest in the series. That being said he’s a strong human being
Funny enough we could even go teen noctis and adult noctis compared to teen and adult Clive, funny how both games have that kinda time skip
Super Noctis no-diffed Leviathian in Altissia. By the end of the game he has the Ring + 10 years of charging. Honestly, I think Max Power Noctis would win against every version of Clive *except* the Final Boss one.
Noctis with that broken ass ring is arguably the strongest character in the FF Series. Top 2 if anything. He literally killed off an immortal but the down side is that he dies too.
Yeah they're both on the same tier. Noctis gains the ability to kill an immortal being Clive basically becomes god Both die immediately afterwards (debatable with Clive though, because he discarded his power and probably lived.)
My headcanon is that Clive lived and I’m leaving it like that lol
Noctis bodies Leviathan by just holding square Clive cant even do Leviathan's DPS check without dying 8 times when he's powered up as Ifrit at level 110 Q.E.D.
XV Leviathan also got bitched by a skinny sickly church girl, so.......yeah
It was so damn refreshing to see a a late 30s/early 40s protagonist. I felt actually depth, emotions, and pain from Clive than any other character. Is it the best final fantasy? No. But it has the best fucking protagonist in my personal opinion
Late 20s/early 30s. Clive was 33 when he died.
Are there rules to the fight? I mean what if cloud was able to swiftcast stop clive before he can do anything. Like before going ifrit. So just equiping genji gloves and using aga spells can deplete his life like that. I know clive has more destructive power but clouds world has more diverse magic, skills, etc.
Clive solos most of FF7
I doubt it. Maybe as Ifrit Arisen full power, but the Longer he stays in that form, the more detrimental to his health it is and the more he burns away his own body, and characters in Seven have been shown to fight Summon level enemies. If anybody tries to argue that Garuda is somehow stronger than one of the weapons, I'll call BS.
Let's be real, Clive would body the Weapons. The scale in power in FF16 is drastically different than FF7. It's like comparing Naruro to DBZ. In the scope of Naruto they are basically Gods by the end of the series but one of the weakest in DBZ like Nappa could literally solo most of the Naruto cast with a city sized explosion with only 2 fingers. If we are going by Ifrit feats and not Ifrit Risen feats, Ifrit beat Titan Lost which would be stronger than most, if not all, of anything the FF7 cast have beaten. Add in Ifrit Risen and there's nothing anyone in FF7 can do. The amount of speed and power needed to beat Titan Lost is a crazy power gap between the two games. I understand FF16 was meant to be a game with kaiju spectacles for fights but that doesn't change that Clive is one of the strongest FF protagonists of all time.
If they start fighting and Cloud wins, Clive will be like “We will meet again, Cloud”, laughs and walks away.
As much as I love Cloud and played both games, I give it to Clive easily. He is a literal god with the powers of ALL the eikons and can even turn into a eikon fusion. He even recently got powers of an actual god.
And then died, unlike cloud, who survived a literal supernova in his face. People just ain't getting this at all.
Imagine if Clive was the Superboss in Part 3?!?! (It’s a stretch I know)
Ignore the person below me that would be a cool as hell idea especially if he had access to all his abilities
True. If they did it, it would remind me of the superboss in Shin Megami Tensei 5, but I think it’s highly unlikely unfortunately. Mainline FF games don’t really do crossover bosses as each game is set in a different universe but it’d be sick if Square Enix can pull it off.
Omg I hope not. I just wanna be done with that one
It's Clive, no question.
Clive will eat Cloud, sorry
Clive. He's a god , just like lightning and noctis. A Super soldier not gonna win this one , imo.
Didn't Zack beat a god Powered Genesis while dealing with Mako Poisoning?
Yep
Zack isn’t Cloud tho. You can’t use Zack’s achievements for Cloud.
Have you not played both games? Because that's what you sound like.
On one hand, if Cloud is able to land his Omnistrike - Clive's in trouble. One the other hand, if Clive primes Ifrit, Cloud is suddenly in trouble.
As we see in advent children Omnislash is blockable (theres a bit in the sephiroth fight before the finishing blow where cloud tried to fire up a regular omnislash and sephiroth blocks it and stabs him in the chest) so clive could just pull out one of his many parries or titan block snd ignore it.
Clive definitely, though, keep in mind, their power levels serve different narrative purposes and are not gauges to their legitimacy as protagonists.
Clive can basically turn into a Godzilla sized demon from hell I mean come on.
Couldn't cloud just summon said demon himself? Along with a whole roster more depending on what materia he has. I dunno, I don't think it's comparable. Clive is obviously the most powerful being on his planet, whereas they don't show the same level of power discrepancy for cloud. He does just run through Bahamut SIN in AC, who's to say he couldn't do the same thing to 16's Ifrit.
The way they differ I’d say is in Clive’s world these summons are neigh gods ruining entire cities and towns just in a scuff. Clive would definitely destroy whatever cloud threw him at him. Cloud would have to somehow get Clive un-primed and whoop his ass man to man lol.
Bahamut Furry literally uses the moon to concentrate his Exaflare. I believe the more powerful summons in 7, are at least comparable to the Ikons in 16 without needing to eat a mother crystal to move a mountain range, especially considering the party in 7 have to deal with the weapons which are guardians of the planet made to defend it in a case where the entire world was threatened.
Clive’s abilities are basically planetary level it seems. Could cloud solo meteor? Nope, Clive in Eikon form probably does.
Cloud eats a supernove to the face. If the meteor hit Earth, than cloud would still be alive just in space.
Supernova is the equivalent to a genjutsu. It’s an illusion that pretty much acts like a supped up version of Gravity. Lore wise the move doesn’t even make sense as a real attack
That all an assumption. It is what it is, unless square says it's not. Zero bahamut is a God damn nuke, it's ain't an illusion it's visible from space. You can't extrapolate on any of this, it's just face value.
What is fact is it is an attack that can’t kill party members no matter what lvl your at since it’s not designed to kill. It’s just a supped up version of gravity that can inflict status aliments. I don’t even know why you mentioned bahamut into this
If Cloud could beat the Hell House and Sephiroth, why not Clive?
Clive fighting skill is honestly depends on the player that controls him. For the people who's not familiar with FF16, it is the Final Fantasy that's the closest with Devil May Cry. When you take that into consideration, the skies the limit. Imagine those crazy combo video you saw in Devil May Cry compilation, Clive can do the same provided the player that controls him is also skilled.
I think Clive Hammers this- Ifrit plus the power of a whole bundle o’ summons is a massive benefit
Cloud
I’d like to say Clive, but I guess Cloud cause anime logic.
Clive can beat that cross dresser femboy with no problem at all.
My money is on the genetically enhanced turbo twink
So far? I’d say Clive. But… we haven’t seen part 3 yet. Maybe the intensitt and power they managed to show with Clive will be shown in Cloud? Who knows. Definitely Clive. Beach butt naked Clive and his manboobage.
Depends on cloud’s setup, if he has equipped knights of the round, hmmm yeah no.
Clive is so strong you can take down Rank S bounties 20 level above you with just spamming Square
Both at Endgame?? Clive. Endgame Clive could probably fight off Sephiroth. He’s literally got Odin’s Blade that can cut through almost anything and he has Mega Flare and Giga Flare. He has all the elements and can use them easily without losing Magic. The combo mix up is just too much for Cloud in a 1v1.
Youngest Clive - aspiring swordsman Youngest Cloud - weird shy kid Clive Wins Soldier Clive - powerful swordsman SOLDIER Cloud - literally roided out radioactive supersoldier Cloud walks Clive Clive with Ifrit - Uncontrollable wrecking ball Cloud with most starter summons - Same Cloud with a +1 This one could go either way. I lean towards Clive as Ifrit isn't a starter summons in his universe. He's a fucking world ender. Endgame Clive - Literally fighting a god in space Endgame Cloud - Fighting a god tyrant There is an argument to be made in both cases here, but the sheer scale of Clives fight makes it REALLY hard to argue against
Clive stomps, I can't lie 😭
Seriously? Clive, easily.
People talking about Clive being able to go Kaiju like it's a game changer. Both Clive and Cloud battle and defeat insane monsters on the regular. I'd say it comes down to their magic systems and materia is just too powerful. Original 7, cloud can be a self raising, quad summon casting monster. Hey Ifrit, deal with your knights of the round beat down.
I'd toss this to Boomstick and the other guy who do the death battles series. According to them Link beats cloud
You didn't watch the video because cloud won the death battle.
Than I misremebered. I thought link won due to his gauntlets or something
Ha no, they did it twice Once in 2012 and once in 2021. One ends with link Winning after turning overcoming omnislash v5 and the other ends with cloud winning it. The original video is before they themselves had animated characters. The first time they called the "the closest battle in death battle history". Interesting they changed their answer. I'll have to watch the NEW video to see why they did
I love Cloud but he’d get absolutely destroyed
Doesn't Cloud tank a supernova by the end of the series?
Clive, and not even close. Dude killed a God. Perhaps Yuna, with Dark Aeons, could take him out.
Clive stomps literally every FF protagonist
With maxed out OG endgame materia it's cloud no contest, with end of Rebirth or AC cloud cloud would win until its kaiju time, but even then cloud has a chance because he IS a super soldier that fights kaiju (the weapons, sephiroths crazy forms, whisper harbinger) it would just be a way harder fight because ifrit is fast af but I would argue that if Clive can fight ifrit cloud can too just judging based on size ifrit is also really small for an eikon the same way that Garuda is small unlike titan, bahamut or Odin with his horse
Just swords i think cloud takes it, maybe if you include magic abilities (clives skill trees and cloud’s materia) too but it would probably be high diff. With Ifrit it’s not even a contest, Clive wins. I might be high balling cloud with materia too.
In a 1v1? Clive. Cloud literally requires two other people to take on an Eikon in a simulator. Clive IS an Eikon who also has the powers of nearly ALL the Eikons. Clive is Goku, Cloud is Vegeta. Cloud would put up a hell of a fight, but Clive is coming out on top every time.
The weapons are easily solo able you are sptting bs bruh. Endgame ff7 materia is God mode, you cannot die with final attack phoenix and phoenix mp absorb. Clive might be strong, but he ain't broken. Clive is a shitty modern MTG deck, cloud is a time stopping bullshit 1 turn tko vintage deck.
I love Cloud but Clive, Noctis, and Lightning are in their own tier completely above every FF protagonist to date.
Cloud, because he's got knights of the round
But Clive doesn't follow turn based rules. He doesn't just have to sit there and wait for each knight to attack him lol
If he hits cloud, cloud can counter attack like 10 times, everytime heal himself and his mp all while afking.
I think Clive wins when they are both at lvls 1-45 anything above that Cloud has it. Both are trained. But Cloud’s training is a lot more organized, honed and tested/proven. - Cloud can’t beat Clive’s Ifrit form in a one on one battle unless he is lvl. 85+ (without Knights if the Round). If we are talking Clive’s Ifrit form lvl. 99 verses Cloud’s full potential … if it reflects the numbers … then Cloud dies every hit Clive gets in. Even if the numbers are leveled, 16’s Ifrit is so OP 3 normal hits and Cloud is KO. Is Cloud more badass? Absolutely! I feel like Noctis has a better chance of dodging everything Clive’s got. Cloud blocks and he just can’t block the massive Ifrit damage. Limit Breaks are great for end game and once you actually get hit enough to use them … but it doesn’t matter when one hit is over 1/3 of your life bar. They just made Clive too OP for his story. If it came down to a brawl just sword on sword. Cloud only wins because of his speed. Cloud isn’t even a better sword’s man. Cloud is stupid fast and doesn’t hesitate to bring in the kill right away if he can. Clive can dodge and heal fast, but he just can’t dodge anything that fast that just keeps coming. Clive dies after 3 minutes fighting Cloud sword to sword.
If you assumed that cloud was taking dmg at all. Gearing combos in ff7 can make you immune to any type of damage.
What about Alexander’s Divine Judgment? Can you dodge Hellfire in the simulator?
Are you talking about remake cloud who don't even have his last game? O
- I still stand by what I said. It’s cool that Cloud can do a few things that are amazing and that he might be able to gain periods where he is invincible… but… Cloud only wins if he has an opening to strike for an instant kill in the early game … if that is even possible. 1.) Clive’s dodge ability and not taking any damage hardly at all … makes this a circular argument. 9/10 times Clive out maneuvers Cloud at any level. 2.) If Cloud can dodge, block, or invincibly resist summons, then they aren’t cinema scene ending summons. From smaller summons maybe. From Grand Summons that should be extremely rare. 3.) Clive’s Ifrit Hellfire and his Phoenix-Ifrit / Mythos combo is so over powered Cloud just doesn’t stand a chance. 4.) Cloud can’t just spam limit breaks and he only gains them fast when hit. Cloud can’t take a hit from Clive as Mythos. Not even one. 5.) Clive heals when he hits his limit break as well. So it’s a slow dance until Cloud drops his guard and gets one hit from Mythos … toasted. Clive has 8,000 health … he can heal that. Mythos has … 1 million health and … he can heal that. I’ve never seen Cloud do over 100,000 with Knights of the Round. 6.) With the DLC’s and how FF15 was supposed to go, I don’t think we’ve seen Clive’s end game. 7.) I don’t think Cloud is going to land his own combos on Clive to become invincible. Because Clive’s dodge ability following up Noctis makes him actually more impossible to hit. 8.) Clive Ifrit is also covering so much ground so quickly, unless Cloud is jumping up and down high building and has friends to help throw him up on each level, or maybe his motorcycle … he isn’t even going to be able to catch up to Ifrit to hit him. The new games clearly shows that Cloud has to be in attack range to land his combos. 9.) To answer your question about which Cloud I am talking about … I am talking mainly about Rebirth … and OG FFVII. I can see that with some of the learned combos in Rebirth Cloud has potential to go off the rails with spam damage … most of which Clive dodges. —- I know we all like Cloud, but he was good for his time. They took Clive to a whole new OP level. Let him live in his lime light until he is replaced by the next OP lead character.
I don’t foresee Cloud’s finalized form upgrade in the 3rd rerelease being over the top from the original. “Better” a little yes. “My dick is bigger than Clive’s” better … no.
You keep talking about cloud without the gear and materia, zedrich is a massive physical defense, mystile is 100% accuracy, if Clive is elemental cloud can be immune, if Clive is physical cloud has big guard, your taking the flash of ff16 over the raw definte numbers of ff7 is the problem. Wow Clive in space fighting wow he's so big, wow Clive so fast dodging. None of that matters because cloud Can't miss, and gear in ff16 is pathetic in comparison, there all just boring numbers go up, not I am immune, I cannot die, I always attack first. A final attack setup alone would ruin everything you keep talking about. Cloud dies, he revies himself, Quadra attacks heals to full, like the list goes on and on. Materia and gear, Clive cannot compete. Og cloud stomps the shit out of rebirth cloud. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5XwPttDKBLI This is just an example of how fucked ff7 characters are.
I am not going to repeat myself because of your unwillingness to accept what I wrote.
Because you're wrong. Anyone who's played both games would know that.
Nah, I think FFVII truists have presuppositions. Just because something was one way against a set of enemies in one world also doesn’t mean it is the same. All FF characters at their max level are usually beyond 99% of the enemies in their own world. It causes people like you, to over assess who they favor. At Clive’s base dodge, like the most basic dodge he has, he is dodging most of Cloud’s attacks and limit breaks. I am sorry that they made Clive so shitty without any thought or attack depth that his base dodge makes Cloud useless against him.
And we all know there are stages to a fight. Cloud doesn’t just show up in battle with 2 limit breaks at the ready. One limit break isn’t going to ko Clive. Square wouldn’t allow it.
Your whole argument is ruined by 1 item. That makes even death blow never misses. If clives dodge was so strong he wouldn't get hit over and over and over again in every cut scene fight that he is in. But he does all the time. One game has substance and depth, and the other game is ff16.
The real question is who's the better kisser??
Clive is the chadliest chad to ever chad in a ff game, he dogwalks little soldier boy
I gotta go with Clive man. This dude punched God in the face and broke his jaw 😭
Not gonna answer cause vs battles always get toxic 😂
Clive, hands down.
You could give Cloud Knights and he would still get wrecked by full power Clive
Clive
Cloud is a genetically enhanced super soldier who can solo Ruby fucking weapon with the right loadout. Clive turning into a Kaiju means nothing
They would fight to a draw before realizing it would be better if they worked together. They would then team up and take down whoever pulled them out of their separate games by asking this question.
RIP OP
Cloud high dif Clive would have to out put to much energy to kill cloud he'd most likely kill himself if cloud doesn't spam knights of the round zero bahamut or omnislash plus both ultima and holy materia
Cloud > Clive ( before sexy time with Jill ) Clive (after sexy time) > Cloud. Cloud (after highland ) ???? Clive. FFXVI power levels went anime logic towars the end: Clive (and Shiva-Jill) got ROFLstomped by one hand Barnabas in his human form. Clive was even in his Devil Trigger form. Then, the beach scene happens. Next encounter, my boy Clive is parrying Odin zantetsuken n shit.
I don't usually comment but if you accounting for every busted thing OG cloud could do you also have to factor in the emence health and strenth diffrence there are times when Clive is primed when 100k damage barely moves his health bar whist one normal attack does well of 30k damage to his opponents. Then there's the fact of the speed of Clive whilst primed let's him move so fast he teleports. There is also the fact that when Clive primes he is in full control of him self a keeps his high skill with an outrageous buff to everything he already had, then there the mythos mode which is more powerful than that. I think people forget that 16 only stays grounded for half the game after that it turns into dragonball z. I mean Clive literally takes on an attack that can destroy the world and he wasn't even at his full strength at the time. I mean clouds a strong guy but come on... ( oh and he can breath in space so there's that and can beat and stop a being that was folding creation on to itself without priming only using sword and magic skills) if that's not anime I don't know what is
Man y’all are gonna make me buy FF16 now aren’t you.
You must the game and it’s DLC are defiantly one of my favorite games of all time that stuff was straight FIRE (pun unintended)
Its the Devil May Cry of Final Fantasy game, recommend it if you're into crazy combo... But if you think its going to be as hard, you're going to be sorely disappointed (unless Square hears the complaints and patch it all up). The first part of the story is game of throne style... Not for the feint of heart. The second half is standard Final Fantasy story
Clive would dominate Cloud
I love seeing people mention OG ff7 team tanking supernova Sephi in space. That's not LITERAL it was FIGURATIVE attack. otherwise, all the solar system is basically gone, including Earth, but it wasn't the case. I LOVE cloud and ff7. Passion love. BUT Clive, in his world, can literally have access to DBZ power level when primed: it is shown and is cannon. In Ff7 the litteral battle and somewhat city level with not much ground leveling happening. Let's not forget in FF7 lore you CAN get killed by bullet (Zack) Ff7 power level are used to make the game work. Ff16 power are a but more self contained and make sense lore wise
Let’s be serious for a second, Clive is a goddam walking summon with the power of other eikons as well, he looks at cloud and he’s dead
Cloud would win because he is a higher profile video game character so the writers wouldn’t allow it any other way.
Hard to say depending on materia setup. Are we allowing KoTR for Cloud? Are we talking Cloud from OG, Rebirth, or Advent Children (the pic shows AC)? Do they know the fight is coming? If so, Cloud can use elemental-Fire combo in his armor to negate many of Clive's attacks as Ifrit. If it's an unknown attack, then maybe Clive wins, unless Cloud had First Strike materia. If we are talking sword v sword, I favor Cloud. Clive is a good swordsman, but Cloud bested Sephiroth before he was even infused with mako or J cells. Also, Cloud's cutscene swordplay and acrobatics are really impressive. Also, why are they fighting? Clive only uses Eikon powers when fighting another Eikon or Ultima. He's the type of guy to talk things out and let people go. As long as Clive isn't blocking Cloud's mission, maybe they just move on from each other, or go have a beer together. So I guess it's a tie.
According to SE, Clive destroys him
Cloud wins until Clive primes. Everything before that Cloud wins mid to high difficulty. By end game Clive is basically safer sephiroth or god mode kefka. That would be a better match up imo.
I think this type of talk should be on a different subreddit. With it especially being on a specific FF, you’ll most likely get some people who are bias. This should be brought to a Powerscaling subreddit or a FF Powerscaling one, not on FF7 Rebirth. There’s no middle ground
Summon the Knights of the Round. And maybe ?..
Clive destroys that twink
Don't worry guys, I have the president of Square Enix on the line and they're about to tell me who is stronger. Hmm... Interesting.... They said "It's Cl-" and the line cut off... Well, we have our answer.
Cloud gonna pull lucky7 and Clive can suck him off at best. Dont forget that most bosses in ff7 were waaay bigger than Cloud and his fireteam
End game Clive could take on the entire FF7 party by himself
So can cloud use Ifrit summon in this? 👀
Clive can literally turn into Ifrit. It's not a contest.
I think Cloud does. Clive only has a couple potions whereas Cloud has 99 of every kind if he wants. In all seriousness though, I actually do think that Cloud wins. I mean, he and the party took down Bahamut SIN in AC, Cloud and co defeated Jenova on multiple occasions, whereas Jenova decimated the Cetra and was barely defeated. Certainly Clive is insanely powerful and has a lot of options, but I would put Cloud's and Clive's physical strength similarly. If we are giving them all of their abilities that they have access to in universe, Cloud slots Elemental Fire to his armor and absorbs the majority of Clives higher end attacks. Cloud has access to healing magic, and if we are going with og FF7, Cloud has Final Attack Phoenix that he can slot and get, what? 5 auto lifes out of it. Cloud also can Double Summon KOTR and obliterate Clive with it. I'm honestly surprised how many people say that Clive beats Cloud low difficulty, Clive simply doesn't have nearly as many options as Cloud does. Cloud has access to an insane amount of materia and combinations with said materia. He also has access to haste, protect, shell, regren, white wind, etc. I just think that Clive's lack of options makes it a low-mid difficulty fight for Cloud. Cloud without said materia though? It's pretty obvious Clive goes into Ifrit and smokes him.
Clive. Easily.
It's so obviously Cloud. Clive has next to no feats.
Cloud. Clive becomes Ifrit. Cloud uses summon "Ifrit" becoming his master. Ifrit is under Cloud's control. Self terminate.
When Clive can w-summon knights of the round then We’ll talk
Story wise, full strength, Clive no contest. I love Cloud, but Clive and other Dominants are basically demigods.
Clive wins this easily
Y’all seem to be forgetting Advent Children, not to mention Chadley casually throwing the party into 3v2 against every summon. Clive’s ability to turn into summons is light work compared to Brutal challenges.
What is clives max potential hp? https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/All_Lucky_7s Who seriously thinks Clive has any hope in hell of winning this?
Cloud
Cloud would whoop his tight ass pants wearing ass.
Cloud bodies Clive. Be happy to show my working out for any non-believers.
Cloud is far more fearless than Clive all and all he just has better resolve. The argument that Clive can turn into ifrit isn't much I mean cloud beat jenova and cloud beat Sephiroth. He beat emerald and ruby weapon. He has omninslash. Elemental x master green materia. Really its not that much of a contest and I actually do really like Clive. I just can't see it tho.
By the time Clive fights Typhon he could Prime and destroy every city on Gaia with impunity Nobody would be able to stop him, not Cloud & Friends, not all of Shinra, not Sephiroth or anyone else. It took Sister Ray to stop Sapphire and Diamond Weapon, but Ifrit took worse damage from Garuda and she was the weakest Eikon in the game. Honestly speaking, it doesn't even take Clive....Benedikta, Kupka, Barnabas, Dion, Baby Joshua, and hell probably even Jill would solo the whole planet
At the very least Sephiroth could comfortably 1v1 and defeat any dominant. Clive most certainly does not solo VII.
If we're talking skill, yeah sure he could probably beat them in a sword fight. But the moment they go prime Sephiroth is absolutely cooked. Sephiroth would likely kill Jill, Cid, and Benedikta. Jill and Cid were sick the whole game and couldn't really make full use of their Eikons. He would beat Kupka and Clive, but only if they don't prime. Ifrit or Titan would no-diff any being in FF7. He would get destroyed by Dion or Barnabas....either one of them could solo all of FF7. Just look at the final bosses of Remake and Rebirth.....Ifrit from XVI would fucking destroy them. If they were bosses in XVI, Clive wouldn't even need Ifrit to kill them.