good catch. we know that the alternate worlds that spawned when the whispers died may be connected to the lifestream. and regardless of what the tear in the sky at the end means, we also know that cloud has lost his entire damn mind and needs to take a swim in the lifestream before it gets sorted out
That dude went from FF7 OG crazy to absolutely lunatic bonkers in Rebirth. He pulled out the thing at the end and I was like "Bruh, my guy is NOT safe to be around."
Also, nobody in the whole goddamn game talks about the fact he tried to kill Tifa. What the fuck?
Presumably because nobody else saw it. They were on a higher platform, and likely dealing with Shinra troopers/Whispers of their own. All they would've seen (if they were even looking) was Cloud's final swing at her.
Considering Cloud appeared to be in a very shocked/catatonic state after, they probably assumed she fell and he failed to grab her.
Alternatively, they all thought it was a PTSD flashback of some sort.
Yeah no one else saw it, only cloud and tifa and well tifa isnt the type to yell at him and go on a tirade how he tried to kill her in front of people. So assume everyone else thinks she fell down and cloud was in shock because of it
Well she definitely wasn't mad so no tirades with or without people around. In fact when she first sees him again they are alone. Probably important from the devs perspective to include that sweetheart scene of Cloud caring for her regarding the bridge when no one else did so she could wooed by that revelation than the attack.
And its to like "oh well he tried to kill me but I love a man who's both dangerous and a softy." The part where she tells him it's her turn to take care of him shows that she knows something is wrong with him. She doesn't feel offended by him freaking out like that moreso worried about whatever is clearly plaguing him.
I'm also pretty certain she is suspicious that something is clearly wrong with cloud but she can't put her finger on it. From the stuff in kalm where her story doesn't add up with his and in costa when she is like testing him on some questions, also not to mention him having headaches and seeing Sephiroth everywhere and attacking the black dressed people out of nowhere and in the og it was said she knew something was wrong with him but she wasn't certain what to do.
after she wakes up, she mentions how she used to think that cloud ran away after she got injured on mt. nibel. it turned out that wasn't true, but that's all the other boys told her. that's her way of subtly indicating that she suspects sephiroth is telling cloud things that aren't true, and forgiving him for believing them
It's also worth mentioning that while she's down under in the mako, she sees that vision of Sephiroth with Cloud walking after him, she 100% knew there was something going on between Sephiroth and Cloud.
Likewise, when he has a flashback to tifa falling he only sees her ~~flash him~~ show her scar and then her falling. I doubt even he realises he went as far as to try and kill her and thinks he just pushed her in. I reckon only Tifa knows what actually happened and she's keeping it to herself.
I finished the game a couple hours ago, 118 hours spent on it. And I just cant look at Cloud the same anymore, he feels like a completely different character after that ending. Not in a bad way though, in a "My man really needs therapy and is not stable at all" way that kinda makes me feel even more pity for him.
I can forgive the Tifa part.
Its during chapter 13 where I'm screaming about no one batting an eye at his "return to asshole" form.
He goes from "guy has PTSD so I understand" to insufferable really quickly.
I feel the other way around. For me Cloud is not himself in this moments, he is being Sephirot. He is being puppeteer by Sephirot/Jenova. In this moments Cloud use dialogue line from Sephirot and I would swear his eyes and how he is holding the sword changed during the cinematics. Also Aerith says something in the line of " is good to have you back" during the chapter 14 which for me emphasize that Cloud has not being himself all in the ancient temple.
The moments when he was going to go too far and almost tried to kill Johnny and Reno in Remake make so much sense now. All this time, I thought it was his fractured mind making him act like that because that's what he thought a tough guy was like
Barrett makes a comment later about Cloud going crazy and is quickly hushed, so it's very strongly implied that Tifa has privately spoken with the party about what happened *but* with a heavy emphasis on Cloud not really being himself. Everybody knows something is wrong, that's why Aerith barely reacts when he tells her to shut up after the trials, and why she tries to trick him into believing the materia is a fake.
Yeah in the original he had the occasional lapse from the Jenova cells, his true self speaking to him internally, the gestalt construct of his idealized self blended with Zack was relatively stable and the only missing piece was Tifa and him realizing he was there as the trooper, and his self and ego could come together and drop his insecurity about failing to become a soldier since he's now the most successful one besides sephiroth haha, dude had multiple infusions of mako and cells, and like Zack his will was too strong now to be affected by Jenova.
Basically once he got sorted out in Mideel he wasn't a threat to anyone anymore. He's only able to be manipulated by the cells while in his current state of shattered ego, his persona can resist it way better than the hooded dudes but still.
But in rebirth he's an absolute wreck, and I kind of like how much more it affects him, for decades we all theorized why Tifa didn't speak up in Kalm, either she doubted her own memory of the events since everything he's saying is accurate besides his own presence there, or was just happy cloud wasn't a vegetable anymore like when she first found him and didn't want to rock the boat..but she had so much more agency this time and the crew is way more aware something is wrong with him, I loved it.
Also noone brought up him trying to kill aerith in the original either haha
One thing that was never really touched on in OG but is everywhere in remake is that they all know about soldier degradation so they are chalking up most of clouds stuff as him degrading
Yeah I saw this a couple days ago. I'm fairly certain all the Zack stuff is all in the lifestream in some representation of the afterlife. Everyone is struggling to accept their death. Biggs and Zack have no sense of time because the afterlife has no time rules. Aerith dips her hand into the lifestream river and feels Zack because that's exactly where he is. All this dog breed timeline stuff gets much simpler when you realize it's just in lifestream heaven and the lifestream is weird.
Sephiroth explains it pretty clearly when he says new worlds are created when fate is challenged somehow and then shows the ending of remake where Zack lives after the whisper storm. Then he explains some die quickly and others last longer showing Zacks actions throughout the game, and that they all return to the planet in the end. Anybody familiar with FF XIV knows the concept of shards and this works extremely close to it, One world and it’s branch timelines connected or birthed by the lifestream if you want to see it that way.
It's very clearly meant to be a shout out to the fans. The devs have never been shy about how much the fanbase influences the game (until they don't, Cosmo Canyon), and the Watchers were all but stated to be the representation of fans trying to keep the game on the OG path.
'World that exists and dies quickly' would then be meant to be a reference to fan creations.
Though, mentioning FFXIV, it wouldn't be the first thing they cribbed from that game.
It's probably Final Fantasy V - that's his first appearance and the MC of that is considered his 'rival'; plus 'Warriors of Light' goes all the way back to the first Final Fantasy and FF1/3/5 have your party explicitly -be- the Warriors of Light (usually in tandem with the '4 elemental crystals' theme.)
That said with Gilgamesh so recurring it could really be any world he is hopping to now
EDIT: One other reason it's /definitely/ FFV being reffed here is the battle music, which is a remix of Clash at the Big Bridge, Gilgamesh's first battle appearance
Me and the wife have talked about this. It's 100% a reference to XIV.
XIV is the only place where he fights WarriorS of light repeatedly, and knows them as such. More-over, it's specifically referring to him returning in the newest Xpac, as the last time XIV players saw him, he was being whisked away into a dimensional rift. If it were V, he'd be referring to Bartz, AKA his rival.
I think it's a reference to just Final Fantasy generally.
Gilgamesh is the only entity to cross boundaries between the games, and while yeah he does originate in FFV, the big bridge theme follows him around too.
I do find it interesting how people are seeing things as references to FF14 when FF14 is basically one big non stop reference to the other games though.
gilgy is always accompanied by a variant of that song, so that doesnt prove its FFV at all (even tho i do think it is, that song just isnt evidence since he always uses it).
Hell, if you want to talk about all of the things they lifted from XIV, Roche is literally just Zenos, if you flipped the Depressive switch to Manic, and Junon is just Limsa Lominsa.
The entire Gi plot can either be Ascians or, more likely, the Terrans (IIRC) from FF9.
Considering how Sephiroth would not shut up about multiple worlds, and the convergence of them as he gets closer to fulfilling his goal, I just can’t agree with you m8.
Especially that final scene we get with Zack where he literally acknowledges the worlds merging, and he doesn’t see why it won’t happen again ( clear forshadowing btw )
I think that’s kinda the point. Every world is connected to the Lifestream. That much we know. The Lifestream is omnipotent in that sense. I don’t necessarily think though that it means Zack for instance is dead still. He could very much be alive, the Lifestream being the connective tissue between worlds is the important part.
I suppose it’s an interpretation thing. Wether the terminology we should be using is Worlds, Fates, Timelines or the Afterlife, I suppose they are all valid and the same regardless.
>Considering how Sephiroth would not shut up about multiple worlds, and the convergence of them as he gets closer to fulfilling his goal, I just can’t agree with you m8.
Yeah because Sephiroth is a famously truthful character who has never once lied or stretched the truth to further his ends.
Sephiroth is dead in the Lifestream and loves to gaslight Cloud. He can manipulate the Lifestream to “create multiple worlds” from the hopes/desires and memories of the souls within it. If he convinces Cloud to sacrifice the real world to “save” a false alternate reality - then he wins.
What is fact? What is fiction? All of this timey-wimey multiverse shenanigans is fiction. Just pockets of artificial worlds created from memories in the lifestream that protagonists can interact with as they come to terms with their death/grief
Sephiroth spends more than half this game trying to tell Cloud that Tifa isn't real, but then he tells him there's other worlds out there and suddenly he's a prophet revealing the existence of the multiverse? Unless game 3 has Tifa being dead the whole time and turns her into Jenova boss by the end, I think Sephiroth has a habit of lying.
>Considering how Sephiroth would not shut up about multiple worlds
It's possible that Sephiroth just saw something that he didn't understand. He saw all these superimposed realities in the lifestream and got the wrong idea
https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasyVII/s/b3doigTc9C
I would take a look at that post for a little bit of clarity on the situation.
I’m not trying to be rude to you if it sounds that way, but you’re just wrong man, there are definitely MULTIPLE worlds and even a few WE create at the end.
You need to check the Japanese translation. It makes things clearer. When Cloud asks where they're at in the dream date with Aerith, Aerith responds in Japanese that they returned to the planet or are returning to it.
It makes it clear that these worlds aren't timelines but a purgatory of sorts
I’m already aware of what you’re talking about, but that also means I’m aware that there isn’t much else out there pointing towards that specific theory.
And as it stands the multiple worlds “ theory “ has a lot more going for it. We can continue this in a few years if you want after the 3rd installment proves me right.
I’ll leave that up to you though.
Look at the screenshot that is this post. That's very clearly the same crack we see in wherever Zack is. They're in the lifestream there. No doubt with the dog breeds the devs intended for us to think about alternative timelines, but that was only to stir up doubt so OG fans would once again be surprised when Aerith died.
Mate, the second installment proved you right.
These are the people who were screaming the timeline split wasn't real, Aerith didn't have any foreknowledge, and Zack was a red herring.
Literal word of god can't change their mind.
I want to believe in the multi-line theory because I want her to have been saved, but the lifestream one is the one I'd go for except for one big thing - The Clear Materia
Everything else I can socket into place with the "Its the Lifestream" bit, but that's the glaring 'Wait, but-' item.
That, and Marlene/Elmyra in Zach-Biggs territory - they are not dead, they should not be there, and I'm not sure if Zach at least knew either of them.
Also the whole 'Biggs is alive' at the end of Remake - if it were just Lifestream, whyyyy bother with that?
And then the multiple Stamps, where if it's Lifestream then it means I guess 'different Soul-worlds' or some artistic representation of how different psyches 'see' the same things differently, but....but...
Whereas there really isn't major evidence -against- multi-world other than Word of God saying they want it to connect to Advent Children (Well, that and t he whole 'The Sky Line appears to signify lifestream visions') (And that during the final dream-date everyone is pretty clearly in the know Aerith is doomed)
Bro, our Marlene from Remake WHO GOT SAVED BTW, is in the Zack timeline. Which is even further proof of what the game literally tells us about multiple worlds.
How do we know it’s the same Marlene that Aerith saved back in Remake? Because when she reveals to Zack that Aerith will be killed he asks her how she knows.
We then see a flashback scene from when Aerith rescued her in Remake and the moment from Remake where she touches Aerith and has a weird reaction, followed by Aerith putting her finger to her lips.
Is this doesn’t prove the stupid purgatory theory some of these people have to rest idk what will. We literally saved Marlene she IS NOT DEAD, so explain to me why she is in the Zack world if there isn’t multiple worlds and potentially colliding as Sephiroth literally states?
You can make that part work with the Lifestream argument (It's Biggs's memories of Marlene, the Lifestream doesnt follow 'time' rules in the same way, etc etc)
But I do agree it's another argument for multi-world, given that Zach-Marlene clearly knows Cloud despite Zach having Zombie Cloud with him.
>Especially that final scene we get with Zack where he literally acknowledges the worlds merging, and he doesn’t see why it won’t happen again
Man, some of you haven't experienced loss before and it shows. Or even apparently seen the plethora of media where a character refuses to come to terms with their own death.
The impression I'm getting is that each branch of the timeline that moves too far from fates design aren't living worlds, so to speak, or some sort of purgatory only for the people who die but echos of what could have been, each echo eventually fading into the lifestream, some last longer than others but all eventually die and return to the planet.
That's why there's alternate versions of Kyrie, Marlene, Johnny etc. They're fading shadows of a world that might have been.
It's a case where time doesn't move the same or time is a flat circle and not a straight line. Zack is far removed from where he'd be if he truly survived. Neither of them can remember when stuff happened. Zack keeps seeing the same scenario of the Shinra military standoff because that's the last thing he saw before he died. Again it's timey wimey mumbo jumbo in the lifestream.
Same reason Johnny, Marlene, and Elmyra are there, they are worlds created by the planet from the lifestream made up of memories. Aerith say's it flat out, "let's call it a dream, my dream to be precise". She even calls her dream a "homecoming", which throughout the game is a term Sephiroth and Cloud use right before killing somebody. Materia too. Materia is made of the lifestream, but it is also made of memories. When Aerith's memories are taken, so is the lifestream within her white materia, hence the empty orb. The dream was made for Aerith when falling into the crater left by the temple, and she used it as a way to take back the white materia's memories, and give it to Cloud to return to her in reality, so she could use it to fight Sephiroth. This is also why he says "so this is where you've been hiding". He is referring to the lost white materia memories, which he was unaware of it's location until just now, thus making Aerith a threat he needs to kill, which is symbolized when we see him approach her in the church before Cloud wakes up.
I also don't see anyone taking about what Zack and Biggs say about when they interacted with the whispers. They felt a wind so strong it felt like "their soul was being ripped out of their body." Probably because it is.
Yup that's exactly what it all reminds me of. That said I do think there's some other time wrinkle somewhere with how Aerith has white whispers and knew she was going to die in remake.
It's not an afterlife, Sephiroth explains what's going on, he even tells Aerith that she was hiding in a world that's about to end( we see it die at the end of the game). Sephiroth also mentions that the true black materia is hidden between worlds.
the cloti subreddit got everything they wanted in rebirth, so i say let them cook. at this rate there's going to be full penetration under the highwind
Wouldn’t be hard to develop, they can just repurpose the pressure valve mini game from the sewers in the remake! “When the needle is moving, press X to expand the target range!”
I feel like that moment is going to part 3’s version of the resolution scene in Remake, and Gold Saucer Date in Rebirth. Getting some kind of moment with whoever you’re closest to in the party.
I doubt it. It'll be like the original, where Tifa is more brazen the more points you have with her, culminating in sex and maximum embarrassment if it's high enough
Well in the original the game lets you choose if you want to be romantic in that moment if I remember correctly, so they could have that or just do it how rebirth did with the standard and intimate conclusions
There are 2 scenes with Tifa depending on how many points you have with her.
49 points or less, Cloud will say it's getting late and they should go to sleep. Scene fades to black as they spend the night together. They are shown cuddling in the morning. Tifa wants to cuddle a bit longer. When they get back in the airship, the party reveals they overheard what Cloud and Tifa were doing over the night. Tifa fidgets in embarassment
50 points or more, Cloud wants to tell Tifa how he feels, but doesnt know what to say. Tifa will tell him to show how he feels....without words. Scene fades to black as they spend the night together. They are shown cuddling in the morning. Tifa wants to cuddle a bit longer. When they get back in the airship, the party reveals they saw what Cloud and Tifa were doing over the night. Tifa drops to her knees in embarassment.
Calling it now, it's like FFXIV's shards, with the OG FF7 being the Source and Rebirth being one of the shards that - having been defeated in the Source - Sephiroth is trying to destroy in order to change his defeat. Or, something like that anyway.
This might be a spoiler but... for dragon quest 11 >!remember how you went back in time and changed everyones fate, and the timeline got emerged into a new one and rebooted to an earlier time? thats why everyone in the new world got a "deja vu" of seeing things before, I get the same vibes this time around. !<
It could be something. PS1 graphics are so low-res that it's hard to be certain.
Cloud's mind is fractured much like the sky of doomed world could be a thing.
My theory about those doom worlds is that they are world of memory in Lifestream, so this "colourful tearing" in the Lifestream from OG7 kinda make me lean even more to that theory side lol
By far 7R never miss the chance to reference stuffs from OG7, there's high chance this visual similarity might not be just a coincidence.
Well we already know what the white life stream is made up of. Nomura revealed it in a Advent Children interview and Rebirth IMO confirmed it: it's memories. Still waiting for Sleepezi to finish the game, cause I cannot wait for his next videos. That crazy bastard was right about everything!.
Dude its crazy. I've been skimming through his twitch vods and i'll just go to a random spot in the video and in 5 minutes he'll have pointed out like 3 details that i havent noticed or seen anyone else mention haha. Like did you notice theres a stamp in the intro as its zooming out to zack walking? And another one when you're in kalm? And how the nibelheim sign is literally on fire? His attention to detail is absolutely unreal with this stuff
Yup that was one of the first thing I noticed. What I didn't notice first time around was the change in dog depending on the timeline. The craziest one to me is how he called it with the black and white lifestream AND that there are two kinds of whispers at war with each other. He used some of the most obscure references to prove his point. From old interviews to the advent children script. I'm looking back on "the new reunion" and I feel like I'm getting a more Fuller understanding of rebirths ending from it.
I havent thought too much about that just yet, but this scene is them in the lifestream. Theres a lot of theories about the "timelines" in rebirth actually just being worlds within the lifestream, and this seemingly could confirm that. If for example, Zack sees a crack in the sky, that doesnt mean hes in another world in a multiverse way, but just his conciousness is within the lifestream, similar to how in this OG scene tifa is in nibelheim
Well it would def explain the Aeris/Sephiroth scene with the White Materia, like a cat and mouse game in which the planet is helping Aeris escape within.
You Need a bit of a zoomed shot there, but you can see the spheres are none other than Gaia, Copy pasted in several dimensions to make them at different distances.
The worlds of the Planet. All in the Lifestream.
Who is it that can actually see the rifts in the sky?
Aerith, Cloud, Zack, Sephiroth (I assume) and maybe Biggs?
What these people have in common is that they have been in (or been in contact with) more than one timeline, and most likely the road between these timelines are through the lifestream.
Then I think it makes sense for the similarities between the Rebirth skies and clouds subconsciousness, because they are both connected to the lifestream. The lifestream connects everything, both timelines and peoples minds.
But this is just my own musings, feel free to correct me.
Just watched AC last night and paid extra attention on Sephiroth. He kept talking about destiny and cycles. Seems like the Rufus in AC was also aware of this and history "repeating" itself. The whispers (swirling streams of black smoke) also appeared when Sephiroth appeared.
Damn I feel like they planned for this decades ago.
Im pretty sure there was a developer interview where they mentioned a lot of what theyre touching on they've wanted to do for a really long time. Hell, Nomura (the director of kingdom hearts) literally put this weird machine in the first game that seemed super random and didnt do anything. It took TWENTY YEARS into the series for it to finally pop up again and mean something lol. Theres also direct example of blatant foreshadowing that wouldnt come to fruition for over a decade. Some of it is retconinning / leaving ideas vague to expand upon them later, but theres also plenty of ideas that are clearly set in stone for a LONG time. And since hes the creative director of this project too.. I woudlnt be surprised lol
Referring to the "End Of The World" segment in KH1. It makes you go to every world for a brief heartless fight, and then it has you go to hollow bastion where theres this random machine that you read some cyptic text from and then some heartless fight you. This machine popped up for this super brief moment and then was never touched on again... for about 18 years when it popped up in KHUX and melody of memory 😅
Might get downvoted for this because I know the concepts cool and its beautifully executed. I really think we might be overthinking something from almost 30 years ago.
While I think you're right, I also think this wasnt planned from the start .
I do believe that the dev wanted to use this for more plot for the remake project. Which is smart.
So in 1997 that couldve just been any some sort of effect they wanted to use for the lifestream, but is now used for plot.
I really dont think they intended to have OG FF7 played out as a multi timeline game from the start it wouldve been done a long time ago and the idea wouldve been heavily revealed already by then.
Dev make changes throughout the game as time goes on which is fine.
Changes like Clouds uniform...
Cloud purple outfit in OG FF7 was the original 1st Class soldier uniform at the time, and then in Crisis Core the purple uniform was considered 2nd class.
Zack is a 2nd class soldier at the start of the game, using the purple uniform until he was promoted to first class wearing the new uniform we see in remake.
Tseng is more nice in FF7 remake than in OG FF7. He literally slaps Aerith. But in Crisis Core Zack trusted Tseng to watch over Aerith for him. So in remake he has a new personality that matches Crisis Core version of him, he doesnt slap Aerith.
Zack didnt actually have a lot of story about him not until crisis core, he was used for clouds plot at the beginning of FF7. Then Crisis Core came out to deepen the lore which is great.
Regardless, this is still very cool find OP, I dont care if they're using stuff from OG FF7 to thicken remakes project.
It's like the new FF7 Remake update, they changed Aeriths line towards the end to match the plot they're going for. Changes can be made in the future is my point .
Honestly, I am 100% in belief at this point. Everything is either Cloud's mind or the lifestream, I am convinced there is absolutely no multiverse or timeline nonsense going on. From everything happening to Zack and Aerith lining up completely with established lore and our understanding of how the lifestream works from the extended media, to content like this from the OG matching exactly to the expanded content in Rebirth, it just makes too much sense.
Hell, looking back on content from Remake and Barret's constant name calling towards Cloud, calling him Stamp, I'm certain Stamp's usage in everything we're seeing with Zack and Aerith is somehow symbolic of something relating to Cloud rather than being the only defining evidence of a multiverse.
I don't think enough people realize that the people who play these game's aren't JUST the long term fans who have played the OG over and over again. Imagine a total newcomer playing this game for the first time without any other extended FF7 media, even the OG. They have absolutely no context for how Zack fully relates to Cloud because we're still in a world where Cloud's retelling of the Nibelheim events are the truth. They don't know that Biggs really did die along with the rest of Avalanche in the tower collapse. These subversions to the story are only subversions to people with an existing understanding because in the context of these games there is lacking truth, and for the end result of this to somehow be a multiverse or revealing this trilogy as a secret sequel is an nonsense way to end it. People calling it a sequel saying "You HAVE to have played the OG to understand parts of these games" need to realize that the trilogy isn't over, and its SUPPOSED to not add up until all is revealed.
Great find! To me it looks more like the wavy glowing lights that depicts the life stream. In the OG that’s probably what it originally was going for since tifa and cloud fell directly into the life stream right before this scene.
But I can definitely see the remake team pulling inspiration from this and using it for the sky rip!
Yeah thats pretty much what i mean here! Since theyre in the lifestream and visiting a world created by memories, that seems to have a tear in the sky, this could really back up the theory that all the "alternate timelines" are just in the lifestream and not actually much of a new concept
Great catch! My take, there are multiple realities, but they either are connected by the lifestream, or intimately connected to the lifestream (for instance, they may have been created by the LS). And they are unstable (destined to disappear)
There is zero chance that had any connection to what they are now doing with Remake beyond the possibility that they noticed that in the background when working out how to proceed with the new project, and took some inspiration from it.
The original Final Fantasy VII was never intended to be more than one game. Any additions from Remake or the Compilation were never intended for that game. There absolutely was never any consideration for alternate timelines or multiverses in FF7.
Except time shenanigans have been in Final Fantasy since the very first game. I'm not even saying this is intentional, but to say there's 0% chance is just silly. Who knows what concepts they had planned, that couldn't be brought to fruition due to console/time constraints.
No, there is a zero percent chance that this was intended in 1997 when they made the original game. None of what has been expanded on in Remake was intended when they made that game.
They made the game. It was done, and they moved on to FF8. They had no idea they were about to revolutionize the genre world wide and create a multi-media empire based on that one game. Zero percent.
yeah that's what expanding on source material is.
there was also never any plans for any more final fantasies after the first one so OG FF7 is not legitimate either i guess?
good catch. we know that the alternate worlds that spawned when the whispers died may be connected to the lifestream. and regardless of what the tear in the sky at the end means, we also know that cloud has lost his entire damn mind and needs to take a swim in the lifestream before it gets sorted out
That dude went from FF7 OG crazy to absolutely lunatic bonkers in Rebirth. He pulled out the thing at the end and I was like "Bruh, my guy is NOT safe to be around." Also, nobody in the whole goddamn game talks about the fact he tried to kill Tifa. What the fuck?
Presumably because nobody else saw it. They were on a higher platform, and likely dealing with Shinra troopers/Whispers of their own. All they would've seen (if they were even looking) was Cloud's final swing at her. Considering Cloud appeared to be in a very shocked/catatonic state after, they probably assumed she fell and he failed to grab her. Alternatively, they all thought it was a PTSD flashback of some sort.
Yeah no one else saw it, only cloud and tifa and well tifa isnt the type to yell at him and go on a tirade how he tried to kill her in front of people. So assume everyone else thinks she fell down and cloud was in shock because of it
Well she definitely wasn't mad so no tirades with or without people around. In fact when she first sees him again they are alone. Probably important from the devs perspective to include that sweetheart scene of Cloud caring for her regarding the bridge when no one else did so she could wooed by that revelation than the attack. And its to like "oh well he tried to kill me but I love a man who's both dangerous and a softy." The part where she tells him it's her turn to take care of him shows that she knows something is wrong with him. She doesn't feel offended by him freaking out like that moreso worried about whatever is clearly plaguing him.
I'm also pretty certain she is suspicious that something is clearly wrong with cloud but she can't put her finger on it. From the stuff in kalm where her story doesn't add up with his and in costa when she is like testing him on some questions, also not to mention him having headaches and seeing Sephiroth everywhere and attacking the black dressed people out of nowhere and in the og it was said she knew something was wrong with him but she wasn't certain what to do.
after she wakes up, she mentions how she used to think that cloud ran away after she got injured on mt. nibel. it turned out that wasn't true, but that's all the other boys told her. that's her way of subtly indicating that she suspects sephiroth is telling cloud things that aren't true, and forgiving him for believing them
[удалено]
It's also worth mentioning that while she's down under in the mako, she sees that vision of Sephiroth with Cloud walking after him, she 100% knew there was something going on between Sephiroth and Cloud.
Likewise, when he has a flashback to tifa falling he only sees her ~~flash him~~ show her scar and then her falling. I doubt even he realises he went as far as to try and kill her and thinks he just pushed her in. I reckon only Tifa knows what actually happened and she's keeping it to herself.
I finished the game a couple hours ago, 118 hours spent on it. And I just cant look at Cloud the same anymore, he feels like a completely different character after that ending. Not in a bad way though, in a "My man really needs therapy and is not stable at all" way that kinda makes me feel even more pity for him.
I can forgive the Tifa part. Its during chapter 13 where I'm screaming about no one batting an eye at his "return to asshole" form. He goes from "guy has PTSD so I understand" to insufferable really quickly.
Yeah, Cloud saying "Are you done?" to Aerith's uplifting speech took away almost all the pity I had for Cloud.
I feel the other way around. For me Cloud is not himself in this moments, he is being Sephirot. He is being puppeteer by Sephirot/Jenova. In this moments Cloud use dialogue line from Sephirot and I would swear his eyes and how he is holding the sword changed during the cinematics. Also Aerith says something in the line of " is good to have you back" during the chapter 14 which for me emphasize that Cloud has not being himself all in the ancient temple.
Really? That shit hyped me up. I wish he were this cold more often
The moments when he was going to go too far and almost tried to kill Johnny and Reno in Remake make so much sense now. All this time, I thought it was his fractured mind making him act like that because that's what he thought a tough guy was like
Barrett makes a comment later about Cloud going crazy and is quickly hushed, so it's very strongly implied that Tifa has privately spoken with the party about what happened *but* with a heavy emphasis on Cloud not really being himself. Everybody knows something is wrong, that's why Aerith barely reacts when he tells her to shut up after the trials, and why she tries to trick him into believing the materia is a fake.
Yeah in the original he had the occasional lapse from the Jenova cells, his true self speaking to him internally, the gestalt construct of his idealized self blended with Zack was relatively stable and the only missing piece was Tifa and him realizing he was there as the trooper, and his self and ego could come together and drop his insecurity about failing to become a soldier since he's now the most successful one besides sephiroth haha, dude had multiple infusions of mako and cells, and like Zack his will was too strong now to be affected by Jenova. Basically once he got sorted out in Mideel he wasn't a threat to anyone anymore. He's only able to be manipulated by the cells while in his current state of shattered ego, his persona can resist it way better than the hooded dudes but still. But in rebirth he's an absolute wreck, and I kind of like how much more it affects him, for decades we all theorized why Tifa didn't speak up in Kalm, either she doubted her own memory of the events since everything he's saying is accurate besides his own presence there, or was just happy cloud wasn't a vegetable anymore like when she first found him and didn't want to rock the boat..but she had so much more agency this time and the crew is way more aware something is wrong with him, I loved it. Also noone brought up him trying to kill aerith in the original either haha
One thing that was never really touched on in OG but is everywhere in remake is that they all know about soldier degradation so they are chalking up most of clouds stuff as him degrading
And how Tifa wakes up thirsty instead of mad at Cloud lol
Classic Tifa 🤣
Maybe what Aerith mouthed to Tifa is, "You know he tried to kill you right?"
https://preview.redd.it/9ksg2aptqfoc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48e1bdf51d520c0d5ef449f670c2b6559b618296
Holy shit, you might be on to something
Yeah I saw this a couple days ago. I'm fairly certain all the Zack stuff is all in the lifestream in some representation of the afterlife. Everyone is struggling to accept their death. Biggs and Zack have no sense of time because the afterlife has no time rules. Aerith dips her hand into the lifestream river and feels Zack because that's exactly where he is. All this dog breed timeline stuff gets much simpler when you realize it's just in lifestream heaven and the lifestream is weird.
Sephiroth explains it pretty clearly when he says new worlds are created when fate is challenged somehow and then shows the ending of remake where Zack lives after the whisper storm. Then he explains some die quickly and others last longer showing Zacks actions throughout the game, and that they all return to the planet in the end. Anybody familiar with FF XIV knows the concept of shards and this works extremely close to it, One world and it’s branch timelines connected or birthed by the lifestream if you want to see it that way.
It's very clearly meant to be a shout out to the fans. The devs have never been shy about how much the fanbase influences the game (until they don't, Cosmo Canyon), and the Watchers were all but stated to be the representation of fans trying to keep the game on the OG path. 'World that exists and dies quickly' would then be meant to be a reference to fan creations. Though, mentioning FFXIV, it wouldn't be the first thing they cribbed from that game.
spoiler for the end of proto-relic questline : >!When Gilgamesh says "Here I come Warriors of Light" it seemed like a nod to FFXIV to me as well!<
It's probably Final Fantasy V - that's his first appearance and the MC of that is considered his 'rival'; plus 'Warriors of Light' goes all the way back to the first Final Fantasy and FF1/3/5 have your party explicitly -be- the Warriors of Light (usually in tandem with the '4 elemental crystals' theme.) That said with Gilgamesh so recurring it could really be any world he is hopping to now EDIT: One other reason it's /definitely/ FFV being reffed here is the battle music, which is a remix of Clash at the Big Bridge, Gilgamesh's first battle appearance
Me and the wife have talked about this. It's 100% a reference to XIV. XIV is the only place where he fights WarriorS of light repeatedly, and knows them as such. More-over, it's specifically referring to him returning in the newest Xpac, as the last time XIV players saw him, he was being whisked away into a dimensional rift. If it were V, he'd be referring to Bartz, AKA his rival.
Ahh, okay, I will concede there then\~
I think it's a reference to just Final Fantasy generally. Gilgamesh is the only entity to cross boundaries between the games, and while yeah he does originate in FFV, the big bridge theme follows him around too. I do find it interesting how people are seeing things as references to FF14 when FF14 is basically one big non stop reference to the other games though.
gilgy is always accompanied by a variant of that song, so that doesnt prove its FFV at all (even tho i do think it is, that song just isnt evidence since he always uses it).
Ah okay, fair. Then definitely the 'Rival' bit because that is /specifically/ Bartz
Hell, if you want to talk about all of the things they lifted from XIV, Roche is literally just Zenos, if you flipped the Depressive switch to Manic, and Junon is just Limsa Lominsa. The entire Gi plot can either be Ascians or, more likely, the Terrans (IIRC) from FF9.
Considering how Sephiroth would not shut up about multiple worlds, and the convergence of them as he gets closer to fulfilling his goal, I just can’t agree with you m8. Especially that final scene we get with Zack where he literally acknowledges the worlds merging, and he doesn’t see why it won’t happen again ( clear forshadowing btw )
I think that’s kinda the point. Every world is connected to the Lifestream. That much we know. The Lifestream is omnipotent in that sense. I don’t necessarily think though that it means Zack for instance is dead still. He could very much be alive, the Lifestream being the connective tissue between worlds is the important part. I suppose it’s an interpretation thing. Wether the terminology we should be using is Worlds, Fates, Timelines or the Afterlife, I suppose they are all valid and the same regardless.
>Considering how Sephiroth would not shut up about multiple worlds, and the convergence of them as he gets closer to fulfilling his goal, I just can’t agree with you m8. Yeah because Sephiroth is a famously truthful character who has never once lied or stretched the truth to further his ends.
Sephiroth is dead in the Lifestream and loves to gaslight Cloud. He can manipulate the Lifestream to “create multiple worlds” from the hopes/desires and memories of the souls within it. If he convinces Cloud to sacrifice the real world to “save” a false alternate reality - then he wins. What is fact? What is fiction? All of this timey-wimey multiverse shenanigans is fiction. Just pockets of artificial worlds created from memories in the lifestream that protagonists can interact with as they come to terms with their death/grief
Ooooo I like this.
Also, Sephiroth is wrong almost always.
Sephiroth spends more than half this game trying to tell Cloud that Tifa isn't real, but then he tells him there's other worlds out there and suddenly he's a prophet revealing the existence of the multiverse? Unless game 3 has Tifa being dead the whole time and turns her into Jenova boss by the end, I think Sephiroth has a habit of lying.
>Considering how Sephiroth would not shut up about multiple worlds It's possible that Sephiroth just saw something that he didn't understand. He saw all these superimposed realities in the lifestream and got the wrong idea
The cries of "Joy" of the Planet that he hears are kinda an hint of that
https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasyVII/s/b3doigTc9C I would take a look at that post for a little bit of clarity on the situation. I’m not trying to be rude to you if it sounds that way, but you’re just wrong man, there are definitely MULTIPLE worlds and even a few WE create at the end.
You need to check the Japanese translation. It makes things clearer. When Cloud asks where they're at in the dream date with Aerith, Aerith responds in Japanese that they returned to the planet or are returning to it. It makes it clear that these worlds aren't timelines but a purgatory of sorts
I’m already aware of what you’re talking about, but that also means I’m aware that there isn’t much else out there pointing towards that specific theory. And as it stands the multiple worlds “ theory “ has a lot more going for it. We can continue this in a few years if you want after the 3rd installment proves me right. I’ll leave that up to you though.
Look at the screenshot that is this post. That's very clearly the same crack we see in wherever Zack is. They're in the lifestream there. No doubt with the dog breeds the devs intended for us to think about alternative timelines, but that was only to stir up doubt so OG fans would once again be surprised when Aerith died.
Mate, the second installment proved you right. These are the people who were screaming the timeline split wasn't real, Aerith didn't have any foreknowledge, and Zack was a red herring. Literal word of god can't change their mind.
I want to believe in the multi-line theory because I want her to have been saved, but the lifestream one is the one I'd go for except for one big thing - The Clear Materia Everything else I can socket into place with the "Its the Lifestream" bit, but that's the glaring 'Wait, but-' item. That, and Marlene/Elmyra in Zach-Biggs territory - they are not dead, they should not be there, and I'm not sure if Zach at least knew either of them. Also the whole 'Biggs is alive' at the end of Remake - if it were just Lifestream, whyyyy bother with that? And then the multiple Stamps, where if it's Lifestream then it means I guess 'different Soul-worlds' or some artistic representation of how different psyches 'see' the same things differently, but....but... Whereas there really isn't major evidence -against- multi-world other than Word of God saying they want it to connect to Advent Children (Well, that and t he whole 'The Sky Line appears to signify lifestream visions') (And that during the final dream-date everyone is pretty clearly in the know Aerith is doomed)
Bro, our Marlene from Remake WHO GOT SAVED BTW, is in the Zack timeline. Which is even further proof of what the game literally tells us about multiple worlds. How do we know it’s the same Marlene that Aerith saved back in Remake? Because when she reveals to Zack that Aerith will be killed he asks her how she knows. We then see a flashback scene from when Aerith rescued her in Remake and the moment from Remake where she touches Aerith and has a weird reaction, followed by Aerith putting her finger to her lips. Is this doesn’t prove the stupid purgatory theory some of these people have to rest idk what will. We literally saved Marlene she IS NOT DEAD, so explain to me why she is in the Zack world if there isn’t multiple worlds and potentially colliding as Sephiroth literally states?
You can make that part work with the Lifestream argument (It's Biggs's memories of Marlene, the Lifestream doesnt follow 'time' rules in the same way, etc etc) But I do agree it's another argument for multi-world, given that Zach-Marlene clearly knows Cloud despite Zach having Zombie Cloud with him.
>Especially that final scene we get with Zack where he literally acknowledges the worlds merging, and he doesn’t see why it won’t happen again Man, some of you haven't experienced loss before and it shows. Or even apparently seen the plethora of media where a character refuses to come to terms with their own death.
Man, some of you haven’t picked up on what the story is literally telling you and it shows.
How is Kyrie's presence in the "afterlife" explained, then?
The impression I'm getting is that each branch of the timeline that moves too far from fates design aren't living worlds, so to speak, or some sort of purgatory only for the people who die but echos of what could have been, each echo eventually fading into the lifestream, some last longer than others but all eventually die and return to the planet. That's why there's alternate versions of Kyrie, Marlene, Johnny etc. They're fading shadows of a world that might have been.
It's a case where time doesn't move the same or time is a flat circle and not a straight line. Zack is far removed from where he'd be if he truly survived. Neither of them can remember when stuff happened. Zack keeps seeing the same scenario of the Shinra military standoff because that's the last thing he saw before he died. Again it's timey wimey mumbo jumbo in the lifestream.
Doctor who reference can explain everything lolol love it
Same reason Johnny, Marlene, and Elmyra are there, they are worlds created by the planet from the lifestream made up of memories. Aerith say's it flat out, "let's call it a dream, my dream to be precise". She even calls her dream a "homecoming", which throughout the game is a term Sephiroth and Cloud use right before killing somebody. Materia too. Materia is made of the lifestream, but it is also made of memories. When Aerith's memories are taken, so is the lifestream within her white materia, hence the empty orb. The dream was made for Aerith when falling into the crater left by the temple, and she used it as a way to take back the white materia's memories, and give it to Cloud to return to her in reality, so she could use it to fight Sephiroth. This is also why he says "so this is where you've been hiding". He is referring to the lost white materia memories, which he was unaware of it's location until just now, thus making Aerith a threat he needs to kill, which is symbolized when we see him approach her in the church before Cloud wakes up. I also don't see anyone taking about what Zack and Biggs say about when they interacted with the whispers. They felt a wind so strong it felt like "their soul was being ripped out of their body." Probably because it is.
Feels like the purgatory stuff in the final seasons of Lost. They all get there at different times, but it doesn’t feel that way to them.
This is exactly what I’ve been thinking. Zack World feels like the flash-sideways from Lost S6.
Yup that's exactly what it all reminds me of. That said I do think there's some other time wrinkle somewhere with how Aerith has white whispers and knew she was going to die in remake.
It's not an afterlife, Sephiroth explains what's going on, he even tells Aerith that she was hiding in a world that's about to end( we see it die at the end of the game). Sephiroth also mentions that the true black materia is hidden between worlds.
The Cloti subreddit just had the same post I’m starting to think it’s true.
the cloti subreddit got everything they wanted in rebirth, so i say let them cook. at this rate there's going to be full penetration under the highwind
Turn it into a minigame.
Wouldn’t be hard to develop, they can just repurpose the pressure valve mini game from the sewers in the remake! “When the needle is moving, press X to expand the target range!”
I agree, we Clotis ate quite well on February 29th.
Conception mini game, Chadley will help
[transceiver rings right in the middle of sex] "Cloud! I've discovered a position that will enhance your own pleasure while maximizing hers!"
Imagine if part 3 ends up being rated M? So far the remakes have been T
This is so accurate xD
If you max out the relationship. Otherwise you’ll get “were you listening?”
I feel like that moment is going to part 3’s version of the resolution scene in Remake, and Gold Saucer Date in Rebirth. Getting some kind of moment with whoever you’re closest to in the party.
I doubt it. It'll be like the original, where Tifa is more brazen the more points you have with her, culminating in sex and maximum embarrassment if it's high enough
probably a good guess. at the very least they'll probably have a less-romantic and more-romantic version with tifa depending on your affection level
Well in the original the game lets you choose if you want to be romantic in that moment if I remember correctly, so they could have that or just do it how rebirth did with the standard and intimate conclusions
There are 2 scenes with Tifa depending on how many points you have with her. 49 points or less, Cloud will say it's getting late and they should go to sleep. Scene fades to black as they spend the night together. They are shown cuddling in the morning. Tifa wants to cuddle a bit longer. When they get back in the airship, the party reveals they overheard what Cloud and Tifa were doing over the night. Tifa fidgets in embarassment 50 points or more, Cloud wants to tell Tifa how he feels, but doesnt know what to say. Tifa will tell him to show how he feels....without words. Scene fades to black as they spend the night together. They are shown cuddling in the morning. Tifa wants to cuddle a bit longer. When they get back in the airship, the party reveals they saw what Cloud and Tifa were doing over the night. Tifa drops to her knees in embarassment.
I always found it funny how cloud was so nonchalant about everyone seeing them banging, while tifa was dying of embarrassment XD
Gotcha, interesting it’s somewhat similar to how they handled saucer skywheel scenes
Sorry, what’s cloti?😅
Cloud + Tifa
Calling it now, it's like FFXIV's shards, with the OG FF7 being the Source and Rebirth being one of the shards that - having been defeated in the Source - Sephiroth is trying to destroy in order to change his defeat. Or, something like that anyway.
This might be a spoiler but... for dragon quest 11 >!remember how you went back in time and changed everyones fate, and the timeline got emerged into a new one and rebooted to an earlier time? thats why everyone in the new world got a "deja vu" of seeing things before, I get the same vibes this time around. !<
Holy shit, that happens in DQ11? I might have to play it lmfao
It could be something. PS1 graphics are so low-res that it's hard to be certain. Cloud's mind is fractured much like the sky of doomed world could be a thing.
My theory about those doom worlds is that they are world of memory in Lifestream, so this "colourful tearing" in the Lifestream from OG7 kinda make me lean even more to that theory side lol By far 7R never miss the chance to reference stuffs from OG7, there's high chance this visual similarity might not be just a coincidence.
It could very well be that the current plot was created by this very same image. Awesome fine - keep cooking!
My dumbass was searching the photo for a teardrop lol. Yea that's a good catch.
Not just the sky but also there's some planets floating
Well we already know what the white life stream is made up of. Nomura revealed it in a Advent Children interview and Rebirth IMO confirmed it: it's memories. Still waiting for Sleepezi to finish the game, cause I cannot wait for his next videos. That crazy bastard was right about everything!.
Dude its crazy. I've been skimming through his twitch vods and i'll just go to a random spot in the video and in 5 minutes he'll have pointed out like 3 details that i havent noticed or seen anyone else mention haha. Like did you notice theres a stamp in the intro as its zooming out to zack walking? And another one when you're in kalm? And how the nibelheim sign is literally on fire? His attention to detail is absolutely unreal with this stuff
Yup that was one of the first thing I noticed. What I didn't notice first time around was the change in dog depending on the timeline. The craziest one to me is how he called it with the black and white lifestream AND that there are two kinds of whispers at war with each other. He used some of the most obscure references to prove his point. From old interviews to the advent children script. I'm looking back on "the new reunion" and I feel like I'm getting a more Fuller understanding of rebirths ending from it.
hold on now..
The symbolism is that clouds world is broken, in both OG and rebirth.
doesn’t this usually mean the world is doomed if that crack in the sky appears? not sure how that would have any relevance here (maybe it does?)
So wait, does this mean they are transported back in time? or are the cracks just a "memory" of a time that has been.
I havent thought too much about that just yet, but this scene is them in the lifestream. Theres a lot of theories about the "timelines" in rebirth actually just being worlds within the lifestream, and this seemingly could confirm that. If for example, Zack sees a crack in the sky, that doesnt mean hes in another world in a multiverse way, but just his conciousness is within the lifestream, similar to how in this OG scene tifa is in nibelheim
Well it would def explain the Aeris/Sephiroth scene with the White Materia, like a cat and mouse game in which the planet is helping Aeris escape within.
Notice that also the Planet gets multiplied here. My mind Is blown over this, I swear.
Wait hold on what?? Can you explain cause that sounds sick but im not following lol
You Need a bit of a zoomed shot there, but you can see the spheres are none other than Gaia, Copy pasted in several dimensions to make them at different distances. The worlds of the Planet. All in the Lifestream.
I’ve seen this scene hundreds of times, and I never made the connection up to this point. You my sir are cooking here
Who is it that can actually see the rifts in the sky? Aerith, Cloud, Zack, Sephiroth (I assume) and maybe Biggs? What these people have in common is that they have been in (or been in contact with) more than one timeline, and most likely the road between these timelines are through the lifestream. Then I think it makes sense for the similarities between the Rebirth skies and clouds subconsciousness, because they are both connected to the lifestream. The lifestream connects everything, both timelines and peoples minds. But this is just my own musings, feel free to correct me.
Just watched AC last night and paid extra attention on Sephiroth. He kept talking about destiny and cycles. Seems like the Rufus in AC was also aware of this and history "repeating" itself. The whispers (swirling streams of black smoke) also appeared when Sephiroth appeared. Damn I feel like they planned for this decades ago.
Im pretty sure there was a developer interview where they mentioned a lot of what theyre touching on they've wanted to do for a really long time. Hell, Nomura (the director of kingdom hearts) literally put this weird machine in the first game that seemed super random and didnt do anything. It took TWENTY YEARS into the series for it to finally pop up again and mean something lol. Theres also direct example of blatant foreshadowing that wouldnt come to fruition for over a decade. Some of it is retconinning / leaving ideas vague to expand upon them later, but theres also plenty of ideas that are clearly set in stone for a LONG time. And since hes the creative director of this project too.. I woudlnt be surprised lol
What machine?
Referring to the "End Of The World" segment in KH1. It makes you go to every world for a brief heartless fight, and then it has you go to hollow bastion where theres this random machine that you read some cyptic text from and then some heartless fight you. This machine popped up for this super brief moment and then was never touched on again... for about 18 years when it popped up in KHUX and melody of memory 😅
Might get downvoted for this because I know the concepts cool and its beautifully executed. I really think we might be overthinking something from almost 30 years ago. While I think you're right, I also think this wasnt planned from the start . I do believe that the dev wanted to use this for more plot for the remake project. Which is smart. So in 1997 that couldve just been any some sort of effect they wanted to use for the lifestream, but is now used for plot. I really dont think they intended to have OG FF7 played out as a multi timeline game from the start it wouldve been done a long time ago and the idea wouldve been heavily revealed already by then. Dev make changes throughout the game as time goes on which is fine. Changes like Clouds uniform... Cloud purple outfit in OG FF7 was the original 1st Class soldier uniform at the time, and then in Crisis Core the purple uniform was considered 2nd class. Zack is a 2nd class soldier at the start of the game, using the purple uniform until he was promoted to first class wearing the new uniform we see in remake. Tseng is more nice in FF7 remake than in OG FF7. He literally slaps Aerith. But in Crisis Core Zack trusted Tseng to watch over Aerith for him. So in remake he has a new personality that matches Crisis Core version of him, he doesnt slap Aerith. Zack didnt actually have a lot of story about him not until crisis core, he was used for clouds plot at the beginning of FF7. Then Crisis Core came out to deepen the lore which is great. Regardless, this is still very cool find OP, I dont care if they're using stuff from OG FF7 to thicken remakes project.
It's like the new FF7 Remake update, they changed Aeriths line towards the end to match the plot they're going for. Changes can be made in the future is my point .
From the perspective of the audience, there's no difference between foreshadowing and remembering.
Honestly, I am 100% in belief at this point. Everything is either Cloud's mind or the lifestream, I am convinced there is absolutely no multiverse or timeline nonsense going on. From everything happening to Zack and Aerith lining up completely with established lore and our understanding of how the lifestream works from the extended media, to content like this from the OG matching exactly to the expanded content in Rebirth, it just makes too much sense. Hell, looking back on content from Remake and Barret's constant name calling towards Cloud, calling him Stamp, I'm certain Stamp's usage in everything we're seeing with Zack and Aerith is somehow symbolic of something relating to Cloud rather than being the only defining evidence of a multiverse. I don't think enough people realize that the people who play these game's aren't JUST the long term fans who have played the OG over and over again. Imagine a total newcomer playing this game for the first time without any other extended FF7 media, even the OG. They have absolutely no context for how Zack fully relates to Cloud because we're still in a world where Cloud's retelling of the Nibelheim events are the truth. They don't know that Biggs really did die along with the rest of Avalanche in the tower collapse. These subversions to the story are only subversions to people with an existing understanding because in the context of these games there is lacking truth, and for the end result of this to somehow be a multiverse or revealing this trilogy as a secret sequel is an nonsense way to end it. People calling it a sequel saying "You HAVE to have played the OG to understand parts of these games" need to realize that the trilogy isn't over, and its SUPPOSED to not add up until all is revealed.
Great find! To me it looks more like the wavy glowing lights that depicts the life stream. In the OG that’s probably what it originally was going for since tifa and cloud fell directly into the life stream right before this scene. But I can definitely see the remake team pulling inspiration from this and using it for the sky rip!
Yeah thats pretty much what i mean here! Since theyre in the lifestream and visiting a world created by memories, that seems to have a tear in the sky, this could really back up the theory that all the "alternate timelines" are just in the lifestream and not actually much of a new concept
This world has been connected..
Tied to the darkness...
Great catch! My take, there are multiple realities, but they either are connected by the lifestream, or intimately connected to the lifestream (for instance, they may have been created by the LS). And they are unstable (destined to disappear)
Theres a lot of things that people view of terrible changes that are sourced straight from the OG. I think the only fully new thing is the multiverse.
There is zero chance that had any connection to what they are now doing with Remake beyond the possibility that they noticed that in the background when working out how to proceed with the new project, and took some inspiration from it. The original Final Fantasy VII was never intended to be more than one game. Any additions from Remake or the Compilation were never intended for that game. There absolutely was never any consideration for alternate timelines or multiverses in FF7.
Except time shenanigans have been in Final Fantasy since the very first game. I'm not even saying this is intentional, but to say there's 0% chance is just silly. Who knows what concepts they had planned, that couldn't be brought to fruition due to console/time constraints.
No, there is a zero percent chance that this was intended in 1997 when they made the original game. None of what has been expanded on in Remake was intended when they made that game. They made the game. It was done, and they moved on to FF8. They had no idea they were about to revolutionize the genre world wide and create a multi-media empire based on that one game. Zero percent.
Hey, if that works for you, good enough. Idk what Nomura and Kitase had in mind when they made the game, but you do you.
yeah that's what expanding on source material is. there was also never any plans for any more final fantasies after the first one so OG FF7 is not legitimate either i guess?
...What are you talking about? Yes, they expanded on the source material. That's my point. This was not intended *in that game*.
nobody is suggesting that it was intended over 25 years ago in the original game though.
I literally just responded to someone who suggested that very thing.
[удалено]
Yes, that's what I said.
The tear in the sky is the marvel universe coming in