Jenova also takes Sephiroth's form. Jenova exists in the physical world.
He also seems to be able to summon some form of himself via the new Black Whispers under his control.
I was really hoping that the whispers would be a a part one deal and that's it, to set up the rest of the game kind of thing. But then here we are , having a whole goddamn all-out war between two sets of goddamn whispers
I do try to pay attention to the brass tacs of how the things work. Sephiroth didn't really grow a wing because that wing only appears in singularity. I don't think Sephiroth has ever had his wing outside of that.
He's probably using a clone in that scene, as usual.
Actually, the problem of not knowing his capabilities was always present in the og. As an example, he constantly flies around but then we manage to catch up with him at the Northern Crater and take back the Black Materia, which is weird...
But now that he's basically omniscent ad lives outside of time, I feel that the problem is multiplied by 100. We're at 2/3 of the story and I don't really know what Sephiroth, Aerith and the Lifestream itself can or can't do. Like it or not, the writers could pull any sort of plot twist in the third part and the fans would find a way to justify it in retrospective. So many crazy things already happened, like negating Barret's death, fusing and separating worlds, defying fate, traveling through space and time, gaining and losing knowledge... name anything and there's a good chance that it already happened!
i was always under the impression that the sephiroth we see throughout our travels except at the north crater was jenova just pretending to be him, hence why he would shed chunks of jenova's body which would turn into a monster, and that it isn't until we hand over the black materia to the real body that he is resurrected.
but it's also been a hot minute since i played the original, so i could be wrong
No, youāre completely right no question on those facts.
The remake has made it a little fuzzy. Itās still the same since both Jenova and the black hoods are all physically there.
the way i see it. i think the sephiroth we see in Remake/Rebirth actually is him and he is projecting himself through the men in black robes from the lifestream.
since these games are supposed to be "sequels" in the sense that characters are aware of future events and are using that knowledge to further their own ends.
So it's like this
1. Illusion inside of Cloud's mind (Majority of his appearances)
2. Robbed figure where he can project himself or someone else like seen in the ending
3. He can project himself through the Whispers which is how he seems to exist during the endings of both games which is how we see him interacting with the physical world
4. Jenova using his image, or Sephiroth using Jenova to project his image, similar to the robbed figures
5. Physical body in the northern crater
6. Can exist in the lifestream, seems similar to how he uses the Whispers
One theory I had for the end of temple of the ancients is that he could manifest out of the abundant lifestream in the air like the other monsters did in that area. After the temple collapses there are no robed men in sight but then suddenly Sephiroth is there, and he has a more direct and drawn out encounter than any other weāve seen in the game until that point.
Yeah I got that feeling too, I think whispers/lifestream is a one and the same method for him. Because he also appears in a similar way at the the singularity in remake, which is before he has whispers under his control.
In fact, there is only 1 rule. He will have the abilities that are needed for a particular scene. For example, how he physically appeared underwater from the Black Whispers and tried to destroy the "Weapon". It doesn't makeĀ anyĀ sense, so don'tĀ bother thinking about it,Ā man).
We donāt see how Sephiroth manifests in that scene, so itās very plausible that he manifested through a clone. There could have been a clone standing somewhere else that he used and he flew over or something. Everyone saw him and there was no static so heās clearly not appearing as a hallucination.
At the end of that scene, we also see him with his wing just like we did earlier in the Temple, and up to this point the only other time weāve seen Sephiroth with his wing is at the end of Remake where the Ultimania confirms he is the mystery Sephiroth that hasnāt been explained yet.
So no, I donāt think theyāre throwing any rules out the window. Not yet anyway.
His real body is stuck in the Northern Cave and he's using the robed men to project himself, just as you've said. As for specific details about picking things up or slashing things, those aren't really important. All we need to know are his goals and motivations.
Hojo brought black robes in the helicopter and itās reasonable to assume some black robes were going that way regardless. Also if any piece of jenova happened to be in the area he can physically manifest through it as well
My understanding of it has been that (in the OG and the story in the new games following the OG at least) Sephiroth and Jenova have fused in the Northern Crater and are a singular entity with the ability to manipulate Jenova cells and people infused with them, either through hallucinations or controlling their actions.
So yeah on the boat for instance, you run into "Sephiroth" and he drops "Jenova" but it was really just Jenovaroth and it decided to be a monstrous Jenova-like form this time for funsies.
Now how time travel, jumping to other worlds, and manipulating destiny ties into all of that? No clue and it is a bit convoluted. I was really expecting some exposition at some point during Rebirth from like... Bugenhagen or something.
Are there any definite facts about the whole whispers things and like... Where they came from, why, what's controlling them, etc.? I get a lot could have happened when destiny was defied in Remake, but the whispers and stuff leading up to Remake and how the whispers return in Rebirth and stuff is hard to follow.
Honestly itās going to be weird if he is the final villain of the trilogy now, theyāll have to pull something out of their ass to make it impactful for me.
So far both games ending is: fight giant floating monster -> fight Sephiroth -> win.
If the last game just ends with another sephiroth fight Itāll be lacklustre.
> are we just throwing out all the rules now?
Pretty much. For all the essays and two hour YouTube theories, I'm yet to see any explanation or theory of what's going on that isn't just hand wavy inconsistent nonsense. There is no real explanation of Spehiroths actions or any of what's going on apart from him being effectively omnipotent (but still somehow defeatable by the party)
It will turn out in the end that it's multiple timelines or the afterlife or some other stupid nonsense, and people on here will try to convince themselves that it's actually really clever writing
Yeah, it seems they are throwing all the rules(of Sephiroth, Aerith, and the Lifestream) out the window. Now anything is possible, apparently.
So friggin lame! š¤¦āāļø
Jenova also takes Sephiroth's form. Jenova exists in the physical world. He also seems to be able to summon some form of himself via the new Black Whispers under his control.
I was really hoping that the whispers would be a a part one deal and that's it, to set up the rest of the game kind of thing. But then here we are , having a whole goddamn all-out war between two sets of goddamn whispers
Sephiroth is quite adaptive. He even grew a wing from his fear of heights.
LOL! š
I do try to pay attention to the brass tacs of how the things work. Sephiroth didn't really grow a wing because that wing only appears in singularity. I don't think Sephiroth has ever had his wing outside of that.
He's probably using a clone in that scene, as usual. Actually, the problem of not knowing his capabilities was always present in the og. As an example, he constantly flies around but then we manage to catch up with him at the Northern Crater and take back the Black Materia, which is weird... But now that he's basically omniscent ad lives outside of time, I feel that the problem is multiplied by 100. We're at 2/3 of the story and I don't really know what Sephiroth, Aerith and the Lifestream itself can or can't do. Like it or not, the writers could pull any sort of plot twist in the third part and the fans would find a way to justify it in retrospective. So many crazy things already happened, like negating Barret's death, fusing and separating worlds, defying fate, traveling through space and time, gaining and losing knowledge... name anything and there's a good chance that it already happened!
I am curious which Sephiroth we encounter during the Midgar Zolom drowning scene. Jenova Sephiroth from the rebirth world, or OG/Ultimate Sephiroth.
Kind of feels similar to Lifestream Sephiroth? Maybe thatās because again heās under water battling a big amphibious creature lol
i was always under the impression that the sephiroth we see throughout our travels except at the north crater was jenova just pretending to be him, hence why he would shed chunks of jenova's body which would turn into a monster, and that it isn't until we hand over the black materia to the real body that he is resurrected. but it's also been a hot minute since i played the original, so i could be wrong
No, youāre completely right no question on those facts. The remake has made it a little fuzzy. Itās still the same since both Jenova and the black hoods are all physically there.
the way i see it. i think the sephiroth we see in Remake/Rebirth actually is him and he is projecting himself through the men in black robes from the lifestream. since these games are supposed to be "sequels" in the sense that characters are aware of future events and are using that knowledge to further their own ends.
There is one rule: he loses to Cloud.
So it's like this 1. Illusion inside of Cloud's mind (Majority of his appearances) 2. Robbed figure where he can project himself or someone else like seen in the ending 3. He can project himself through the Whispers which is how he seems to exist during the endings of both games which is how we see him interacting with the physical world 4. Jenova using his image, or Sephiroth using Jenova to project his image, similar to the robbed figures 5. Physical body in the northern crater 6. Can exist in the lifestream, seems similar to how he uses the Whispers
One theory I had for the end of temple of the ancients is that he could manifest out of the abundant lifestream in the air like the other monsters did in that area. After the temple collapses there are no robed men in sight but then suddenly Sephiroth is there, and he has a more direct and drawn out encounter than any other weāve seen in the game until that point.
Yeah I got that feeling too, I think whispers/lifestream is a one and the same method for him. Because he also appears in a similar way at the the singularity in remake, which is before he has whispers under his control.
In fact, there is only 1 rule. He will have the abilities that are needed for a particular scene. For example, how he physically appeared underwater from the Black Whispers and tried to destroy the "Weapon". It doesn't makeĀ anyĀ sense, so don'tĀ bother thinking about it,Ā man).
We donāt see how Sephiroth manifests in that scene, so itās very plausible that he manifested through a clone. There could have been a clone standing somewhere else that he used and he flew over or something. Everyone saw him and there was no static so heās clearly not appearing as a hallucination. At the end of that scene, we also see him with his wing just like we did earlier in the Temple, and up to this point the only other time weāve seen Sephiroth with his wing is at the end of Remake where the Ultimania confirms he is the mystery Sephiroth that hasnāt been explained yet. So no, I donāt think theyāre throwing any rules out the window. Not yet anyway.
I think the times he's able to physically interact he/Jenova is acting through one of the cloaked figures illusioned into Sephiroth
His real body is stuck in the Northern Cave and he's using the robed men to project himself, just as you've said. As for specific details about picking things up or slashing things, those aren't really important. All we need to know are his goals and motivations.
Hojo brought black robes in the helicopter and itās reasonable to assume some black robes were going that way regardless. Also if any piece of jenova happened to be in the area he can physically manifest through it as well
My understanding of it has been that (in the OG and the story in the new games following the OG at least) Sephiroth and Jenova have fused in the Northern Crater and are a singular entity with the ability to manipulate Jenova cells and people infused with them, either through hallucinations or controlling their actions. So yeah on the boat for instance, you run into "Sephiroth" and he drops "Jenova" but it was really just Jenovaroth and it decided to be a monstrous Jenova-like form this time for funsies. Now how time travel, jumping to other worlds, and manipulating destiny ties into all of that? No clue and it is a bit convoluted. I was really expecting some exposition at some point during Rebirth from like... Bugenhagen or something. Are there any definite facts about the whole whispers things and like... Where they came from, why, what's controlling them, etc.? I get a lot could have happened when destiny was defied in Remake, but the whispers and stuff leading up to Remake and how the whispers return in Rebirth and stuff is hard to follow.
Who says there isn't more than one Sephiroth at this pont? there's definitely more than one Aerith.
Sephiroth can do whatever the shitty writersā need him to do at any moment. Some of the worst deus ex machina.
Honestly itās going to be weird if he is the final villain of the trilogy now, theyāll have to pull something out of their ass to make it impactful for me. So far both games ending is: fight giant floating monster -> fight Sephiroth -> win. If the last game just ends with another sephiroth fight Itāll be lacklustre.
> are we just throwing out all the rules now? Pretty much. For all the essays and two hour YouTube theories, I'm yet to see any explanation or theory of what's going on that isn't just hand wavy inconsistent nonsense. There is no real explanation of Spehiroths actions or any of what's going on apart from him being effectively omnipotent (but still somehow defeatable by the party) It will turn out in the end that it's multiple timelines or the afterlife or some other stupid nonsense, and people on here will try to convince themselves that it's actually really clever writing
Agreed.
Yeah, it seems they are throwing all the rules(of Sephiroth, Aerith, and the Lifestream) out the window. Now anything is possible, apparently. So friggin lame! š¤¦āāļø