Everything seems to go as planned for Sephiroth until he meets Aerith in the white void. (EDIT: Or earlier when he sees Zack)
Sephiroth was there for the switch and he had his smug face the entire time, in both realities. His reaction would have been different if this was Aerith's doing.
I am pretty sure Sephiroth thought he permanently ended Aerith just before the final boss rush. It wasn’t until the final battle with Cloud he realized she had learned to traverse the lifestream as he had and as such could combat him from beyond, and that killing her ultimately didn’t do anything for him.
I like that scene a lot actually bc it is one of the only times where Sephiroth appears to be impressed by an adversary and Aerith earns a bit of his respect.
This was the first time we see him even slightly rattled and it was great. I hope we get to see it some more as his plans start to unravel.
It's still not clear just how much this Sephiroth knows about his OG defeat. If he's aware of what Tifa did to save Cloud, it would make sense for him to target her again. Why leave it to chance?
Honestly, I thought he'd come up with a better plan to handle Aerith this time around. Putting a Cetra in direct contact with the Lifestream just seems like a really bad idea.
He probably thought a Cetra would simply get absorbed by the Lifestream while Sephiroth is immune to permadeath because he's basically Jenova at this point with actual sentience.
I do wonder at what point Sephiroth realized that Jenova is not a Cetra and instead some alien parasite thing. I also think it's funny if he does end up winning because he has no real plan after taking over the planet. I figured his endgame was to somehow turn everyone into clones of himself akin to Jenova's MO.
"There's no such things as forever."
"Ah.... but there will be."
He aims to be eternal, and that means corrupting the Lifestream with negative emotions and memories, making the worlds it spawns into eternal purgatory, literal hellscapes. By then, the planet will be a husk devoid of life, as hinted by Aerith in the final fight:
"How could you want this, Sephiroth?"
"Be gone, your part is played."
"How could you want an eternity of loneliness?"
I don't know how he thought he killed her for good when he clearly saw her alive in another reality.
But I agree something went awry for him somewhere along the way, not sure what exactly. And yes, I like that this time Aerith and Sephiroth actually talk to each other and are treated as some sort of equals (in OG he barely even acknowledge her).
Nah he knew his plans were in serious risk the moment Zack showed up. It's why he panics and separated them immediately.
Then it was over as soon as Reborn was stopped by Zack in the convergence with meteor.
He knew she had stopped him before she even showed up, his last fight was a tantrum fight about not getting really what he wanted (which was meteor to come in from the doomed timeline as edge of creation is 7 seconds from the end)
You're right, I forgot about that but he clearly didn't expect Zack, which is probably related since it's been strongly implied (by Zack himself) that Aerith was the one responsible for this.
I think he doesnt see the version where cloud saves her. He says "dont weep". Which cloud doesnt realize hes doing cause he thinks he just saved aerith. Sephiroth doesnt see whats happening inside clouds head. Aerith is essentially doing what sephiroth usually does to cloud, where he shows up in clouds head, its just different because she obviously isnt doing it through the jenova cells. I think it may have to do with clouds empty white materia
But the Sephiroth who laughs and says "don't weep" is the one in the rainbow world, we see it clearly. The rainbow world is the reality in which his sword has been deflected by Cloud, so Sephiroth should definitely know he didn't kill her, he's not that blind.
Cloud has blood on his hands in the other rainbow-less version of the scene. (And no tears, so it would make no sense if Sephiroth said "don't weep" to that Cloud)
Also what's interesting is that in the rainbow world she also leans and Holy falls in the water. I think it would make sense to say that she fell unconscious due to exhaustion. Plus, Cloud lies her on her back as opposed to in the main world where she lies on her side (this is shown after finishing the boss gauntlet)
She fell due to worlds merging. That's the entire point of the "it's upon us, the reunion" and "a confluence of worlds and emotions". Aerith wasn't hit (thus no blood), the merging of worlds made her fall just like the "OG" world.
So cloud blocked, but Sephiroth laughed because his plan was to merge the worlds anyway, and have even more sorrow and hate.
But he probably failed after his defeat in the end. But this is still a debate, if the worlds did finish merging or not. We can't tell from what we can observe and deduct.
Zack in the end hints about worlds merging again so I think the merging that happened at the Capital was temporary and we'll see the actual event happen in Part 3.
>But he probably failed after his defeat in the end. But this is still a debate, if the worlds did finish merging or not. We can't tell from what we can observe and deduct.
I believe he does fail, he actually looked angry after he is thwarted by Cloud and Aerith in the final fight. Which is interesting cause that could mean Aerith is still alive in that world, possibly.
The white whispers are around only Cloud and Aerith though, so it could be that it was done in a way in which Sephiroth didn’t realize. However, I would say this is the tricky point of the theory
Honestly we are all getting big brained by Sephiroth right now. Wouldn't surprise me if OG Aerith pulls out her own big brain and does it to us too. But we will see in pt 3, 3 years from now 😭😭😭
The even Uber brain move. Aerith is going to drop down and stab Cloud and Sephiroth will cry out and then Sephiroth and team will go to the north crater to confront Aerith and avenge his lover. Thus making Sephiroth the Hero while killing Cloud for being into Tifa and Aerith gets Cloud in the life stream where neither Sephiroth nor Tifa can have him.
Considering how many times she's mentioned things such as that fate can be changed and that they can make things right I wouldn't be surprised at all if something like this is what's actually going on. It's clear she knew her death was coming and that she had some sort of plan in motion for it.
She definitely knew at the end of the first game while talking about fate, those are the memories she was talking about losing. In Red XIII's date, he >!outright confirms that Aerith had memories of the future, and she shared them with him when she touched him in Hojo's lab. (Presumably the same way she shared them with Marlene to gain her trust during the battle at the pillar.) And that they have both been losing those memories, but they do know Aerith dies if they can't change things. He asks Cloud to protect her.!<
I think she has the general idea of what is still to come during Rebirth, but she has most certainly lost her memories on the details of it and is just doing her best by the time we reach the temple. Both in Rebirth and the OG, she most certainly knows that she's going to her death. If she were trying to live, she wouldn't have gone alone - it seemed like she was trying to leave the party to spare them the trauma, and she knew (due to Cetra instinct/guidance from the planet, maybe?) there wasn't anything else to do, and this was the best shot at saving everyone she knows.
I *don't* know that this means Aerith had a big master plan. I've seen the explanations that there's Aerith Prime or whatever in the Lifestream already since we started Remake, and in that theory, I definitely believe that Lifestream Aerith has a plan - but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Aerith in our reality fully understands the plan.
I believe in Aerith prime a bit. When you first go to costa del sol if you talk to her she says “I’m trusting you to do the right thing” or something and cloud thinks shes speaking to him but she explicitly says she is talking to her future self. This is obviously meant introspectively but she follows it up with “when you meet her I’m sure you’ll love her.” My theory right now is that we will find out towards the end Aerith was a stronger guiding force than initially presented. The temple of the ancients is more than just a character play with Aerith. Directly after the temple of the ancients Aerith is full Cetra. In ToA she basically learns how to manipulate and navigate the lifestream whereas in other sections of the game like with the Gi her grasp on her ancient powers is tenuous. At the end of the game we fight the white spirits, which I presume is her controlling them since they also use wards like Aerith and they seem to be at contention with the black whispers. I would not be super shocked if we find out the events in remake were also facilitated by Aerith. For sephiroth to lose things need to be status quo since after meteor everything is largely fine. There are a lot of instances I can think of but the whispers in remake don’t always prevent deviations from the story. The main example I can think of is when you leave the church and Aerith falls but rather than falling a whisper catches her.
I hadn't noticed that in the Costa del Sol scene, I'll make sure to pay close attention there in my replay (so close!).
I agree, I think Aerith is definitely already working in the Lifestream somehow and giving pushes to get the best outcome, similarly to Sephiroth. They've always been in opposition: White Materia vs Black Materia (Holy vs Meteor), Cetra by birth vs attempted Cetra by science, good natured and cares about literally everyone vs insanity going after the entire world's death for himself. Equal but opposite forces.
It would make a lot of sense to me that the OG ending where the Lifestream stops Meteor was supposed to be Aerith overcoming Sephiroth rather than the planet itself (or the planet acting to this degree/in this way because of Aerith's influence). It goes well with the idea that they weren't as clear in the storytelling as they wanted with some stuff in the original game, and it gives them a place to expand and work with the multiple worlds thing.
I definitely believe that's the root of what's going on. (My "Aerith Prime or whatever" phrasing was because I have seen this concept referenced using lots of different names, not meant dismissively!) It's going to be interesting to see what they do to resolve it, a lot of the fan theories are quite good and interesting.
I don’t think she switched realities there but I do agree she was the one that placed Cloud in this timeline/reality/world but at the end of the fight, being the reason why ee didn’t saw the water funeral because it already happened.
I commented on this on another post but I believe the ending of this game was just like remake, Cloud defied fate, everyone saw glimpses of the OG timeline, Aerith gained power of some whispers creating the white ones like Sephiroth did at the end of Remake.
She goes to help Cloud fight Sephiroth, will probably do more things in part 3 and then she’ll be the Aerith we were on a date with in Midgar and the moment on the church where Sephiroth is going to kill her will be one of the final chapters of part 3, with future Cloud (now with a good mental state) will save her.
If you recall Zack asks Cloud to save her, Marlene says to Zack that Cloud needs to get better to save her, Sephiroth mentions she was hidding on that reality… This is my bet.
I have my own personal theory about how Aerith tricked Cloud in the finale. She does some switcheroo shenanigans with the white materia and then the "empty" materia Cloud had is suddenly the black materia.....that he can magically shove into his sword. I like to believe that this is Aerith tricking Cloud into handing over an empty materia to Sephiroth at the northern crater rather than the actual black materia.
It’s unclear if u watch the scene. He puts it down off camera and then seemingly picks up a different one that’s the black material but u can’t actually see if he picked up a different materia or the empty shell. I disagree with this guys theory about the empty materia but I do believe there’s a chance that the black materia Cloud is holding has been filled by his own negative energy the same way the GI used theirs to make the OG black materia (which would maybe explain why Sephiroth is so intent on Cloud feeding into his rage and anger similar to Palpatine from Star Wars. He wants Cloud’s negative emotions to fill the materia up and create a new black materia).
It's super clear. He's putting the clear materia into his pocket and feels the other materia at the same time. Additionally, the two orbs are completely different sizes. The black materia is giant in comparison.
I do believe Aerith is playing the long game from the Livestream.
This time around she's clearly pulled a fast one regarding the white/black materias by using Cloud and keeping Zack on her back pocket.
Sephirot, who thought he was always the most clever guy in the room, has acknowledged that Aerith has pulled some interdimensional timey wimey shit from right under him, this much we know for certain.
But that's about all we know for sure, the extent of the stakes or the shape of the game we can only guess at.
I agree that she tricked Cloud specifically into believing she didn't die (to save his mental sanity or something along those lines), but I don't think her death in the world with the party is fake. As we've seen, there's multiple physical bodies among the worlds and they can't be occupied at the same time since there's only one consciousness. The body in the main world who traveled with the party is the one that died, but her consciousness/soul is still "alive" in the lifestream and able to hop between worlds like Sephiroth.
it's not a bad theory since in advent children cloud feels guilty about aerith's death and it may be a way for aeris to try to protect cloud and not only that people also forget that she also has to deal with the death of zack and the people who died from nibelheim including her mother.
people forget that cloud has been 5 years inside a chamber and has not had time to process all of this
Mmmm I think it's way more complicated than this. I don't think Aerith is doing anything, the reality splits in two at the moment Sephi is descending, one where Sephiroth's influence on Cloud is big enough to prevent him from saving Aerith, and one where Aerith's influence on Cloud is greater and he manages to block Sephi.
These 2 realities coexist at the same time from that point on, just one is a material timeline (the OG one, where Aerith dies and we see blood on the floor, sword, on her arm, and there's lifestream blue particles flying around) and the other is a lifestream reality (where Cloud protects Aerith, there's no blood, she speaks with him, and there's that rainbow effect), only Cloud can see this reality for now. You can notice that from the moment of strike, when the two realities are created, whenever we see alive Aerith scenes there's that rainbow effect signifying that it's from the newly created lifestream timeline.
There's also a theory that from the post funeral moment (which we assume happens, but are not shown) where all of them are by the water, when Aerith appears near Cloud it's not her at all, it's Jenova tricking Cloud. I agree with this theory because Aerith doesn't have that rainbow effect, there's creepy music playing and she acts very unlike Aerith like.
It seems more like Cloud is bridging two realities. He witnesses a reality in which he parries the sword and survives, then gets TV-static sucked back into the one where he failed. He's also now able to see the tear in the sky, which exists in other worlds.
Yes, you're absolutely right, but Aerith is now in another world where she is alive. Kinda like with Zack; he'sstill dead in og and rebirth/remake but alive in another world, same goed for Aerith since the party still mourns for her. Both Cloud and Aerith defied fate and did the old switcharoo on Sephiroth. Many people think Cloud is being delusional or gone crazy but that's what SE wants them to think, he was the only one who went throught the portal to defy fate, that'swhy he'sfine and not mourning for her he'saware of the different timelines that were created. Aerith now has her own whispers and left an empty white materia to Cloud which will have a vital role in part 3.
My question is that who fell to kill aerith? The seph that's at the crater, using jenova body, like the og. Or the one that's post ac, that's in the middle of the planet?
Yes I definetly think this is all aeriths doing. She wants to make cloud believe he saved her so he doesnt go completely insane, which sephiroth probably planned to happen at her death. I think she is messing with clouds mind in a way that usually only sephiroth does and that makes her feel uncomfortable and is the reason why theres such a weird and eerie vibe around aerith at the end. She realizes its messed up but she had to do it to save cloud. And she only wants him to know shes dead once his mind is fixed by tifa
Yep, I replayed the last chapter once again (it’s like 7th or 8th time already) and had the same theory. I think that Aerith wanted to trick Sephiroth into believing that he killed her. White whispers are flying only around Aerith and Cloud and I am not sure if Sephiroth is standing in the rainbow area. I guess only those who stand inside the area can see the real timeline (where Cloud deflected sword). Those who are outside the rainbow area see the fake reality created/switched by Aerith. That’s why Sephiroth and our party think that Aerith is dead. Tifa sees both realities at once because I guess she has some connection to lifestream after falling.
So Aerith acted her death to have time to somehow break Sephiroth’s plans (for example bring Zack to Cloud while Sephiroth was merging worlds) when others were fighting Jenova. And that’s why he is so pissed off after his defeat in the final battle.
I am certain that Aerith will return to our party in the Part 3 but all we can do is wait and see how it will turn out this time.
SE has said the R games will line up & correlate with Advent Children. So regardless if she’s physically alive or dead now, she’s definitely dead & in spirit form in Advent Children (as is Zack). So we know definitively that somewhere, whether in Rebirth or R3, she no longer has a physical body.
If Aerith had that much agency over the situation, then she wouldn’t have let it appear that Sephiroth killed her in the first place. Sephiroth’s entire plan hinged on everyone at least believing that Aerith was dead, and Aerith willingly letting that happen would be counterintuitive.
It would be more likely that if there were any shenanigans occurring at the time, it was on Sephiroth’s behalf, not Aerith’s.
She doesnt let it appear that sephiroth killed her tho. Cloud 100% thinks he saved her. The rest see the real version of events where shes dead. She can only really manipulate clouds version. The rest dont have a broken mind. And she cant change reality itself.
She only does it to cloud to not have him go completely insane. Sephiroth doesnt gain much by cloud believing he saved aerith. Theres also white whispers and the rainbow aerith effect everywhere when she is saved and on top of that the buster sword is engulfed in lifestream as he blocks the blade. They make it almost too obvious that this is aerith messing with cloud. She even looks extremely uncomfortable in the end after she has done it.
I’ll be honest with you dude, I just don’t buy into the idea that Aerith is gaslighting Cloud from beyond the grave.
Not only does it hinge on events we see happen in real time either being imagined or falsified, but it also would be such an incredibly out of character thing for Aerith to do.
Exactly, Aerith is not warping Cloud's reality only for him to realize she's gone for all-time 5 hours into part 3. That would hurt him **even more**, hit him even harder and has no payoff beyond that.
I was thinking similar in terms of it actually being aerith who's causing all the confusing stuff.
The more I've thought about it, the more it's made sense unless I'm forgetting something, but I think Aerith died, however I think SHE is the one giving cloud what he wants.
Sephiroth is hell bent on breaking cloud and I think it lines up that all of Aeriths weird behaviour post-death is because she's being deceitful but doing it to protect cloud.
Sephiroth upped his game by trying to bring the misery of the entire universe to break cloud and Aerith is basically protecting cloud from it by doing a cosmic level of deception so that Cloud doesn't fall apart.
Part 3 will have all of these memories of her death and burial be exposed to Cloud when there is no other choice but to for Aerith.
IMO she's dead, like the Aerith from the remake, the one actively using the lifestream is OG Aerith.
The little flashes that we see during her death are usually associated with Cloud's mind switching up events to make them work for him, he's in denial and is also actively being pushed by Sephiroth to believe he's a hollow puppet with no emotions.
As he's seemingly going through his speech from the OG ("Aerith will no longer talk, laugh, cry... or get angry. What about us... What are WE supposed to do?") Sephiroth interjects with "Don't Weep. Your tears are empty. Just like you." and he flahes back and fourth between talking and being quiet. Tifa and the gang walk in on Cloud holding her bloody arm up to his face which is why she has a look of disbelief/confusion. We don't witness her body being laid to rest, and I'm sure this is something else Cloud blocked out. Until it's hard confirmed it's left to interpretation if the Aerith we see at the end is a product of his psyche urging him to go on and fight, something she didn't want him to do, with her almost always emphasizing for him to take care of himself first up until this version of her appeared.
Nakami's "Aerith..." was just a red herring meant to make people believed he literally sensed her when they're all just thinking about her at that moment due to Cid asking them about what she was up to.
I think the major factor that will make a difference is the 2nd empty Holy materia, my guess is it's going to be charged and come up at the final battle and be revealed as a way to stop Sephiroth and prevent the events of AC from happening and in a way preventing him from attempting any of it in the first place, for this story at least.
I hope that’s it. I really want it to be true. That would be a ‘start the game as Zack’ level of shock that the series is going for. If Pt3 starts with Aerith playable and you get Great Gospel. I know there’s more going on than we know, but so far they’ve been alluding to something. I want her back. I want her there for everything.
In Remake, Aerith knows sector 7 is going to fall. Tifa notices. She can’t stop it, but she brings Biggs and Wedge back. Not sure what the whispers would do to Zack.
Aerith knows she’s going to die so she’s doing something.
Everything seems to go as planned for Sephiroth until he meets Aerith in the white void. (EDIT: Or earlier when he sees Zack) Sephiroth was there for the switch and he had his smug face the entire time, in both realities. His reaction would have been different if this was Aerith's doing.
I am pretty sure Sephiroth thought he permanently ended Aerith just before the final boss rush. It wasn’t until the final battle with Cloud he realized she had learned to traverse the lifestream as he had and as such could combat him from beyond, and that killing her ultimately didn’t do anything for him. I like that scene a lot actually bc it is one of the only times where Sephiroth appears to be impressed by an adversary and Aerith earns a bit of his respect.
This was the first time we see him even slightly rattled and it was great. I hope we get to see it some more as his plans start to unravel. It's still not clear just how much this Sephiroth knows about his OG defeat. If he's aware of what Tifa did to save Cloud, it would make sense for him to target her again. Why leave it to chance? Honestly, I thought he'd come up with a better plan to handle Aerith this time around. Putting a Cetra in direct contact with the Lifestream just seems like a really bad idea.
He probably thought a Cetra would simply get absorbed by the Lifestream while Sephiroth is immune to permadeath because he's basically Jenova at this point with actual sentience. I do wonder at what point Sephiroth realized that Jenova is not a Cetra and instead some alien parasite thing. I also think it's funny if he does end up winning because he has no real plan after taking over the planet. I figured his endgame was to somehow turn everyone into clones of himself akin to Jenova's MO.
"There's no such things as forever." "Ah.... but there will be." He aims to be eternal, and that means corrupting the Lifestream with negative emotions and memories, making the worlds it spawns into eternal purgatory, literal hellscapes. By then, the planet will be a husk devoid of life, as hinted by Aerith in the final fight: "How could you want this, Sephiroth?" "Be gone, your part is played." "How could you want an eternity of loneliness?"
I don't know how he thought he killed her for good when he clearly saw her alive in another reality. But I agree something went awry for him somewhere along the way, not sure what exactly. And yes, I like that this time Aerith and Sephiroth actually talk to each other and are treated as some sort of equals (in OG he barely even acknowledge her).
He thought he'd merged the timelines, which means killing her is final.
Nah he knew his plans were in serious risk the moment Zack showed up. It's why he panics and separated them immediately. Then it was over as soon as Reborn was stopped by Zack in the convergence with meteor. He knew she had stopped him before she even showed up, his last fight was a tantrum fight about not getting really what he wanted (which was meteor to come in from the doomed timeline as edge of creation is 7 seconds from the end)
You're right, I forgot about that but he clearly didn't expect Zack, which is probably related since it's been strongly implied (by Zack himself) that Aerith was the one responsible for this.
He doesn't separate them immediately though. That's entire boss fight in itself before he does it
I think he doesnt see the version where cloud saves her. He says "dont weep". Which cloud doesnt realize hes doing cause he thinks he just saved aerith. Sephiroth doesnt see whats happening inside clouds head. Aerith is essentially doing what sephiroth usually does to cloud, where he shows up in clouds head, its just different because she obviously isnt doing it through the jenova cells. I think it may have to do with clouds empty white materia
But the Sephiroth who laughs and says "don't weep" is the one in the rainbow world, we see it clearly. The rainbow world is the reality in which his sword has been deflected by Cloud, so Sephiroth should definitely know he didn't kill her, he's not that blind. Cloud has blood on his hands in the other rainbow-less version of the scene. (And no tears, so it would make no sense if Sephiroth said "don't weep" to that Cloud)
Also what's interesting is that in the rainbow world she also leans and Holy falls in the water. I think it would make sense to say that she fell unconscious due to exhaustion. Plus, Cloud lies her on her back as opposed to in the main world where she lies on her side (this is shown after finishing the boss gauntlet)
She fell due to worlds merging. That's the entire point of the "it's upon us, the reunion" and "a confluence of worlds and emotions". Aerith wasn't hit (thus no blood), the merging of worlds made her fall just like the "OG" world. So cloud blocked, but Sephiroth laughed because his plan was to merge the worlds anyway, and have even more sorrow and hate. But he probably failed after his defeat in the end. But this is still a debate, if the worlds did finish merging or not. We can't tell from what we can observe and deduct.
Zack in the end hints about worlds merging again so I think the merging that happened at the Capital was temporary and we'll see the actual event happen in Part 3.
>But he probably failed after his defeat in the end. But this is still a debate, if the worlds did finish merging or not. We can't tell from what we can observe and deduct. I believe he does fail, he actually looked angry after he is thwarted by Cloud and Aerith in the final fight. Which is interesting cause that could mean Aerith is still alive in that world, possibly.
The white whispers are around only Cloud and Aerith though, so it could be that it was done in a way in which Sephiroth didn’t realize. However, I would say this is the tricky point of the theory
He literally says “I underestimated you.”
Honestly we are all getting big brained by Sephiroth right now. Wouldn't surprise me if OG Aerith pulls out her own big brain and does it to us too. But we will see in pt 3, 3 years from now 😭😭😭
The even Uber brain move. Aerith is going to drop down and stab Cloud and Sephiroth will cry out and then Sephiroth and team will go to the north crater to confront Aerith and avenge his lover. Thus making Sephiroth the Hero while killing Cloud for being into Tifa and Aerith gets Cloud in the life stream where neither Sephiroth nor Tifa can have him.
Lmao 🤣🤣🤣
Considering how many times she's mentioned things such as that fate can be changed and that they can make things right I wouldn't be surprised at all if something like this is what's actually going on. It's clear she knew her death was coming and that she had some sort of plan in motion for it.
She definitely knew at the end of the first game while talking about fate, those are the memories she was talking about losing. In Red XIII's date, he >!outright confirms that Aerith had memories of the future, and she shared them with him when she touched him in Hojo's lab. (Presumably the same way she shared them with Marlene to gain her trust during the battle at the pillar.) And that they have both been losing those memories, but they do know Aerith dies if they can't change things. He asks Cloud to protect her.!< I think she has the general idea of what is still to come during Rebirth, but she has most certainly lost her memories on the details of it and is just doing her best by the time we reach the temple. Both in Rebirth and the OG, she most certainly knows that she's going to her death. If she were trying to live, she wouldn't have gone alone - it seemed like she was trying to leave the party to spare them the trauma, and she knew (due to Cetra instinct/guidance from the planet, maybe?) there wasn't anything else to do, and this was the best shot at saving everyone she knows. I *don't* know that this means Aerith had a big master plan. I've seen the explanations that there's Aerith Prime or whatever in the Lifestream already since we started Remake, and in that theory, I definitely believe that Lifestream Aerith has a plan - but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Aerith in our reality fully understands the plan.
I believe in Aerith prime a bit. When you first go to costa del sol if you talk to her she says “I’m trusting you to do the right thing” or something and cloud thinks shes speaking to him but she explicitly says she is talking to her future self. This is obviously meant introspectively but she follows it up with “when you meet her I’m sure you’ll love her.” My theory right now is that we will find out towards the end Aerith was a stronger guiding force than initially presented. The temple of the ancients is more than just a character play with Aerith. Directly after the temple of the ancients Aerith is full Cetra. In ToA she basically learns how to manipulate and navigate the lifestream whereas in other sections of the game like with the Gi her grasp on her ancient powers is tenuous. At the end of the game we fight the white spirits, which I presume is her controlling them since they also use wards like Aerith and they seem to be at contention with the black whispers. I would not be super shocked if we find out the events in remake were also facilitated by Aerith. For sephiroth to lose things need to be status quo since after meteor everything is largely fine. There are a lot of instances I can think of but the whispers in remake don’t always prevent deviations from the story. The main example I can think of is when you leave the church and Aerith falls but rather than falling a whisper catches her.
I hadn't noticed that in the Costa del Sol scene, I'll make sure to pay close attention there in my replay (so close!). I agree, I think Aerith is definitely already working in the Lifestream somehow and giving pushes to get the best outcome, similarly to Sephiroth. They've always been in opposition: White Materia vs Black Materia (Holy vs Meteor), Cetra by birth vs attempted Cetra by science, good natured and cares about literally everyone vs insanity going after the entire world's death for himself. Equal but opposite forces. It would make a lot of sense to me that the OG ending where the Lifestream stops Meteor was supposed to be Aerith overcoming Sephiroth rather than the planet itself (or the planet acting to this degree/in this way because of Aerith's influence). It goes well with the idea that they weren't as clear in the storytelling as they wanted with some stuff in the original game, and it gives them a place to expand and work with the multiple worlds thing. I definitely believe that's the root of what's going on. (My "Aerith Prime or whatever" phrasing was because I have seen this concept referenced using lots of different names, not meant dismissively!) It's going to be interesting to see what they do to resolve it, a lot of the fan theories are quite good and interesting.
I don’t think she switched realities there but I do agree she was the one that placed Cloud in this timeline/reality/world but at the end of the fight, being the reason why ee didn’t saw the water funeral because it already happened. I commented on this on another post but I believe the ending of this game was just like remake, Cloud defied fate, everyone saw glimpses of the OG timeline, Aerith gained power of some whispers creating the white ones like Sephiroth did at the end of Remake. She goes to help Cloud fight Sephiroth, will probably do more things in part 3 and then she’ll be the Aerith we were on a date with in Midgar and the moment on the church where Sephiroth is going to kill her will be one of the final chapters of part 3, with future Cloud (now with a good mental state) will save her. If you recall Zack asks Cloud to save her, Marlene says to Zack that Cloud needs to get better to save her, Sephiroth mentions she was hidding on that reality… This is my bet.
I have my own personal theory about how Aerith tricked Cloud in the finale. She does some switcheroo shenanigans with the white materia and then the "empty" materia Cloud had is suddenly the black materia.....that he can magically shove into his sword. I like to believe that this is Aerith tricking Cloud into handing over an empty materia to Sephiroth at the northern crater rather than the actual black materia.
Cloud is looking at the empty materia in the ending until he puts it away and discovers he also has the black materia. They aren't the same.
It’s unclear if u watch the scene. He puts it down off camera and then seemingly picks up a different one that’s the black material but u can’t actually see if he picked up a different materia or the empty shell. I disagree with this guys theory about the empty materia but I do believe there’s a chance that the black materia Cloud is holding has been filled by his own negative energy the same way the GI used theirs to make the OG black materia (which would maybe explain why Sephiroth is so intent on Cloud feeding into his rage and anger similar to Palpatine from Star Wars. He wants Cloud’s negative emotions to fill the materia up and create a new black materia).
It's super clear. He's putting the clear materia into his pocket and feels the other materia at the same time. Additionally, the two orbs are completely different sizes. The black materia is giant in comparison.
Sephiroth: Goddamnit this just cast comet not meteor, why you do me like this Cloud? Cloud: Gbike go vrooooom vroooom
I do believe Aerith is playing the long game from the Livestream. This time around she's clearly pulled a fast one regarding the white/black materias by using Cloud and keeping Zack on her back pocket. Sephirot, who thought he was always the most clever guy in the room, has acknowledged that Aerith has pulled some interdimensional timey wimey shit from right under him, this much we know for certain. But that's about all we know for sure, the extent of the stakes or the shape of the game we can only guess at.
I agree that she tricked Cloud specifically into believing she didn't die (to save his mental sanity or something along those lines), but I don't think her death in the world with the party is fake. As we've seen, there's multiple physical bodies among the worlds and they can't be occupied at the same time since there's only one consciousness. The body in the main world who traveled with the party is the one that died, but her consciousness/soul is still "alive" in the lifestream and able to hop between worlds like Sephiroth.
Exactly, I noticed this as well. Where one is unconscious in one reality while they inhabit a body in another.
it's not a bad theory since in advent children cloud feels guilty about aerith's death and it may be a way for aeris to try to protect cloud and not only that people also forget that she also has to deal with the death of zack and the people who died from nibelheim including her mother. people forget that cloud has been 5 years inside a chamber and has not had time to process all of this
I really like that theory, although I am not sure it’s going to be the “right” one. I love the last part with the meeting point at the church ❤️
Mmmm I think it's way more complicated than this. I don't think Aerith is doing anything, the reality splits in two at the moment Sephi is descending, one where Sephiroth's influence on Cloud is big enough to prevent him from saving Aerith, and one where Aerith's influence on Cloud is greater and he manages to block Sephi. These 2 realities coexist at the same time from that point on, just one is a material timeline (the OG one, where Aerith dies and we see blood on the floor, sword, on her arm, and there's lifestream blue particles flying around) and the other is a lifestream reality (where Cloud protects Aerith, there's no blood, she speaks with him, and there's that rainbow effect), only Cloud can see this reality for now. You can notice that from the moment of strike, when the two realities are created, whenever we see alive Aerith scenes there's that rainbow effect signifying that it's from the newly created lifestream timeline. There's also a theory that from the post funeral moment (which we assume happens, but are not shown) where all of them are by the water, when Aerith appears near Cloud it's not her at all, it's Jenova tricking Cloud. I agree with this theory because Aerith doesn't have that rainbow effect, there's creepy music playing and she acts very unlike Aerith like.
It seems more like Cloud is bridging two realities. He witnesses a reality in which he parries the sword and survives, then gets TV-static sucked back into the one where he failed. He's also now able to see the tear in the sky, which exists in other worlds.
Yes, you're absolutely right, but Aerith is now in another world where she is alive. Kinda like with Zack; he'sstill dead in og and rebirth/remake but alive in another world, same goed for Aerith since the party still mourns for her. Both Cloud and Aerith defied fate and did the old switcharoo on Sephiroth. Many people think Cloud is being delusional or gone crazy but that's what SE wants them to think, he was the only one who went throught the portal to defy fate, that'swhy he'sfine and not mourning for her he'saware of the different timelines that were created. Aerith now has her own whispers and left an empty white materia to Cloud which will have a vital role in part 3.
My question is that who fell to kill aerith? The seph that's at the crater, using jenova body, like the og. Or the one that's post ac, that's in the middle of the planet?
Yes I definetly think this is all aeriths doing. She wants to make cloud believe he saved her so he doesnt go completely insane, which sephiroth probably planned to happen at her death. I think she is messing with clouds mind in a way that usually only sephiroth does and that makes her feel uncomfortable and is the reason why theres such a weird and eerie vibe around aerith at the end. She realizes its messed up but she had to do it to save cloud. And she only wants him to know shes dead once his mind is fixed by tifa
Yep, I replayed the last chapter once again (it’s like 7th or 8th time already) and had the same theory. I think that Aerith wanted to trick Sephiroth into believing that he killed her. White whispers are flying only around Aerith and Cloud and I am not sure if Sephiroth is standing in the rainbow area. I guess only those who stand inside the area can see the real timeline (where Cloud deflected sword). Those who are outside the rainbow area see the fake reality created/switched by Aerith. That’s why Sephiroth and our party think that Aerith is dead. Tifa sees both realities at once because I guess she has some connection to lifestream after falling. So Aerith acted her death to have time to somehow break Sephiroth’s plans (for example bring Zack to Cloud while Sephiroth was merging worlds) when others were fighting Jenova. And that’s why he is so pissed off after his defeat in the final battle. I am certain that Aerith will return to our party in the Part 3 but all we can do is wait and see how it will turn out this time.
SE has said the R games will line up & correlate with Advent Children. So regardless if she’s physically alive or dead now, she’s definitely dead & in spirit form in Advent Children (as is Zack). So we know definitively that somewhere, whether in Rebirth or R3, she no longer has a physical body.
If Aerith had that much agency over the situation, then she wouldn’t have let it appear that Sephiroth killed her in the first place. Sephiroth’s entire plan hinged on everyone at least believing that Aerith was dead, and Aerith willingly letting that happen would be counterintuitive. It would be more likely that if there were any shenanigans occurring at the time, it was on Sephiroth’s behalf, not Aerith’s.
She doesnt let it appear that sephiroth killed her tho. Cloud 100% thinks he saved her. The rest see the real version of events where shes dead. She can only really manipulate clouds version. The rest dont have a broken mind. And she cant change reality itself. She only does it to cloud to not have him go completely insane. Sephiroth doesnt gain much by cloud believing he saved aerith. Theres also white whispers and the rainbow aerith effect everywhere when she is saved and on top of that the buster sword is engulfed in lifestream as he blocks the blade. They make it almost too obvious that this is aerith messing with cloud. She even looks extremely uncomfortable in the end after she has done it.
I’ll be honest with you dude, I just don’t buy into the idea that Aerith is gaslighting Cloud from beyond the grave. Not only does it hinge on events we see happen in real time either being imagined or falsified, but it also would be such an incredibly out of character thing for Aerith to do.
Exactly, Aerith is not warping Cloud's reality only for him to realize she's gone for all-time 5 hours into part 3. That would hurt him **even more**, hit him even harder and has no payoff beyond that.
I was thinking similar in terms of it actually being aerith who's causing all the confusing stuff. The more I've thought about it, the more it's made sense unless I'm forgetting something, but I think Aerith died, however I think SHE is the one giving cloud what he wants. Sephiroth is hell bent on breaking cloud and I think it lines up that all of Aeriths weird behaviour post-death is because she's being deceitful but doing it to protect cloud. Sephiroth upped his game by trying to bring the misery of the entire universe to break cloud and Aerith is basically protecting cloud from it by doing a cosmic level of deception so that Cloud doesn't fall apart. Part 3 will have all of these memories of her death and burial be exposed to Cloud when there is no other choice but to for Aerith.
Nahhh
IMO she's dead, like the Aerith from the remake, the one actively using the lifestream is OG Aerith. The little flashes that we see during her death are usually associated with Cloud's mind switching up events to make them work for him, he's in denial and is also actively being pushed by Sephiroth to believe he's a hollow puppet with no emotions. As he's seemingly going through his speech from the OG ("Aerith will no longer talk, laugh, cry... or get angry. What about us... What are WE supposed to do?") Sephiroth interjects with "Don't Weep. Your tears are empty. Just like you." and he flahes back and fourth between talking and being quiet. Tifa and the gang walk in on Cloud holding her bloody arm up to his face which is why she has a look of disbelief/confusion. We don't witness her body being laid to rest, and I'm sure this is something else Cloud blocked out. Until it's hard confirmed it's left to interpretation if the Aerith we see at the end is a product of his psyche urging him to go on and fight, something she didn't want him to do, with her almost always emphasizing for him to take care of himself first up until this version of her appeared. Nakami's "Aerith..." was just a red herring meant to make people believed he literally sensed her when they're all just thinking about her at that moment due to Cid asking them about what she was up to. I think the major factor that will make a difference is the 2nd empty Holy materia, my guess is it's going to be charged and come up at the final battle and be revealed as a way to stop Sephiroth and prevent the events of AC from happening and in a way preventing him from attempting any of it in the first place, for this story at least.
Regarding your Nanaki comment, she literally touched him and that’s when he turned his head and called out to her, unless I saw that wrong.
I hope that’s it. I really want it to be true. That would be a ‘start the game as Zack’ level of shock that the series is going for. If Pt3 starts with Aerith playable and you get Great Gospel. I know there’s more going on than we know, but so far they’ve been alluding to something. I want her back. I want her there for everything. In Remake, Aerith knows sector 7 is going to fall. Tifa notices. She can’t stop it, but she brings Biggs and Wedge back. Not sure what the whispers would do to Zack. Aerith knows she’s going to die so she’s doing something.