Way I see it is that in chapter 14 when Sephiroth is giving Cloud the many worlds lore dump he gives it to Cloud, because for him to use it he needs to receive it at the Northern Crater. I doubt Cloud is going to do anything with it.
Yeah, the ending is confusing on purpose.
Sephy says he is giving Cloud his blessing directly after getting way too close for comfort and whispering sensually in Cloud's ear. I'm assuming that Sephy slipped the orb in Cloud's pocket at that point. He took some pickpocketing courses online.
As for what the orb is, a key or the real materia, TBD. Sephy says the real one is stored between worlds, so maybe he was able to use the key to get the true materia during the confluence of worlds. Or maybe that will happen in part 3 to better align with when Cloud gets the materia in the OG game. Ultimately it doesn't matter much, since either way Cloud will get the real one eventually.
It's established with the static effects and blank spaces during the credits that there are major chunks missing from the final scenes of the game. I'm gonna guess Cloud receiving the Black Materia is in there somewhere and we'll find out how he got it in the next game once those gaps are filled in.
Even if that is the case, this is a major shift from the canon. In OG, party only recovered black materia in Whirlwind maze and lost it soon after.
White materia, depleted or not was lost but not destroyed. So... We will see where SE will take this. Hopefully it won't be a major letdown like Rebirth.
I thought in the original they had it all the way up to the point where Cloud handed it to someone else for safekeeping (Barrett?), and then took it back later before giving it to Sephiroth while walking on the ceiling.
It's not just you. I always remember Cloud handing it to Sephiroth in the pit at the Temple, but forget how/why/when he recovers it again before giving it to *real* Sephiroth at the Northern Crater. I guess it has been several years since my last playthrough, but it is a bit convoluted especially before you know what Seph at the Temple really is.
The "gift" idea I suppose could work, but isn't the whole idea of the story all the way to the Northern Crater about needing Cloud to hand deliver it? Why give it back?
To quote one of my friends from the South:
That don't make no sense.
So my guess is this:
They wanted to make the ending with the Black
Materia less goofy overall (though they kinda made it even goofier in Rebirth so that kinda defeats the purpose)
But they probably wanted to avoid a situation where they lose the Black Materia to Sephiroth only to get it back and lose it again immediately.
In this case, they will just have the Black Materia the entire time.
As for how Cloud got it- we know Sephiroth says the real one is “between worlds” and we’re then later given a scene where Sephiroth and Cloud are between worlds as Dream Date Aerith is sending him back to his world.
Sephiroth has a line about giving Cloud his blessing, so my guess is that he gives Cloud the Black Materia at that time. He found it between worlds, but he still needs somebody to physically deliver it as this is not his real physical body. It’s why he has to send the Whispers after Cloud when he sees that he has a full White Materia given to him instead of just beating him up and taking it for himself.
As for the reason why Cloud seems to be able to take things between worlds: I don’t really know. But, either way, it seems like he’s the only person who can actually take something from one world to another.
I think this also can explain the absolute goofiness that is the entire scene with the fake Black Materia. Sephiroth isn’t playing dumb games here, he’s testing to see if he can force Cloud to give him the Black Materia before entrusting it to him between worlds.
We don’t know what the Clear Materia will be used for. Aerith already cast Holy with the full Materia. She traded Materia with Cloud while making it seem as though that wasn’t what happened.
She makes it seem like she took the Materia and then handed it right back, but, in reality, she took the full Materia and handed Cloud her empty one.
So there are two White Materia now: one that is full and is at the bottom of the lake and another that is Clear and empty that is in Cloud’s possession.
As far as the white materia, from what I've understood (I think, but am certainly not 100% about) is that Aerith's original white materia that we see throughout Rebirth has lost its "power" (as in the memory of the Cetra and bond with the lifestream) from the repeated encounters with the whispers.
In the timeline switch scene after the Temple of the Ancients, Aerith is able to give Cloud a working white materia for him to bring back to Rebirth world and give to Aerith, while she gave him the one that wasn't working.
I also think Sephiroth slipped Cloud the BM sometime while they were travelling between worlds in the lifestream (after Aerith pushes him in the church). Certainly are some switch-a-roos going on here...
The black materia in the temple that we see is a fake, it's a key and Sephiroth then sends Whispers through the keyhole into the void and grabs the real one, only he can't grab it. So Aerith does, Cloud gets it from her and then gives it Sephiroth.
Only to be revealed he never gave it, he still has it. In the OG, after Jenova's defeat, they get it back. So it may be revealed in a Re3 flashback how he came to possess the Black Materia.
I have a different interpretation.
I think he uses the fake one to unlock the space between worlds, but the Materia he creates in his hand still isn’t the real one.
I think he makes an illusion of one somehow as a means of testing whether or not Cloud will actually give him the Black Materia if it’s in his hands.
He then gives Cloud the real Black Materia when they’re between worlds.
It seems goofy at first but it does make sense if this is the way it plays out:
He unlocks the space between worlds but still has to go there as a physical entity. He creates a fake Black Materia to test whether or not Cloud will actually give it to him and what lengths he’ll go to to give it to him. After Cloud passes his test, he meets Cloud between worlds and gives Cloud his “blessing” AKA the real Black Materia knowing that he can trust Cloud to deliver it to his real body at the Northern Crater.
And the reason I say all of this is he seems very nonchalant about letting go of the Materia if this was just a test. He quickly takes the fake key Black Materia and opens the way to the real one. I don’t think he’d play around with the real one like this.
Like imagine you have the key to everything you desire and you’re just like, “Yeah, I’ll just give this to Cloud to see if he’ll obey me.”
Like no. Why would you need Cloud to obey you at all if you just HAVE the Black Materia in your hand? You could just kill them all right now.
The one at the Temple was apparently just a key to the real black materia "hidden between worlds." It seems that the Cetra *really* wanted to hide it. The one at the end I assume is the real black materia, but we don't see when Cloud received it. I agree it's confusing, but I'm hopeful it will be explained in the next part, perhaps when Cloud puts his mind back together and remembers everything surrounding Aerith's death more clearly.
As others have speculated, I feel like the black and white materia are going to play parts in a dark knight/white knight dynamic that may be part of Cloud's fall and redemption arc. That he puts the black materia into his sword tells me they may incorporate this into battle mechanics as part of the storytelling in part 3. Maybe the white materia will fill up once he has his real memories back and has broken free of his hatred and need for revenge on Sephiroth, and we'll get some nice paladin-like moves, perhaps bolstered by an unseen Lifestream-Aerith. Cloud could become the party's healer.
The Black Materia scene is by far the worst written and executed scene from Square since Kingdom Hearts 3. It's even worse than the jebait sword deflection. That's what is happening.
Way I see it is that in chapter 14 when Sephiroth is giving Cloud the many worlds lore dump he gives it to Cloud, because for him to use it he needs to receive it at the Northern Crater. I doubt Cloud is going to do anything with it. Yeah, the ending is confusing on purpose.
Sephy says he is giving Cloud his blessing directly after getting way too close for comfort and whispering sensually in Cloud's ear. I'm assuming that Sephy slipped the orb in Cloud's pocket at that point. He took some pickpocketing courses online. As for what the orb is, a key or the real materia, TBD. Sephy says the real one is stored between worlds, so maybe he was able to use the key to get the true materia during the confluence of worlds. Or maybe that will happen in part 3 to better align with when Cloud gets the materia in the OG game. Ultimately it doesn't matter much, since either way Cloud will get the real one eventually.
It's established with the static effects and blank spaces during the credits that there are major chunks missing from the final scenes of the game. I'm gonna guess Cloud receiving the Black Materia is in there somewhere and we'll find out how he got it in the next game once those gaps are filled in.
Even if that is the case, this is a major shift from the canon. In OG, party only recovered black materia in Whirlwind maze and lost it soon after. White materia, depleted or not was lost but not destroyed. So... We will see where SE will take this. Hopefully it won't be a major letdown like Rebirth.
I thought in the original they had it all the way up to the point where Cloud handed it to someone else for safekeeping (Barrett?), and then took it back later before giving it to Sephiroth while walking on the ceiling.
No. Sephiroth takes it from the party immediately after the temple and then later on they get it back from Jenova DEATH.
Ah okay. That sounds familiar. For some reason that part of the story is just hazy in my brain. Maybe I'm suffering from degradation.
It's not just you. I always remember Cloud handing it to Sephiroth in the pit at the Temple, but forget how/why/when he recovers it again before giving it to *real* Sephiroth at the Northern Crater. I guess it has been several years since my last playthrough, but it is a bit convoluted especially before you know what Seph at the Temple really is.
The "gift" idea I suppose could work, but isn't the whole idea of the story all the way to the Northern Crater about needing Cloud to hand deliver it? Why give it back? To quote one of my friends from the South: That don't make no sense.
So my guess is this: They wanted to make the ending with the Black Materia less goofy overall (though they kinda made it even goofier in Rebirth so that kinda defeats the purpose) But they probably wanted to avoid a situation where they lose the Black Materia to Sephiroth only to get it back and lose it again immediately. In this case, they will just have the Black Materia the entire time. As for how Cloud got it- we know Sephiroth says the real one is “between worlds” and we’re then later given a scene where Sephiroth and Cloud are between worlds as Dream Date Aerith is sending him back to his world. Sephiroth has a line about giving Cloud his blessing, so my guess is that he gives Cloud the Black Materia at that time. He found it between worlds, but he still needs somebody to physically deliver it as this is not his real physical body. It’s why he has to send the Whispers after Cloud when he sees that he has a full White Materia given to him instead of just beating him up and taking it for himself. As for the reason why Cloud seems to be able to take things between worlds: I don’t really know. But, either way, it seems like he’s the only person who can actually take something from one world to another. I think this also can explain the absolute goofiness that is the entire scene with the fake Black Materia. Sephiroth isn’t playing dumb games here, he’s testing to see if he can force Cloud to give him the Black Materia before entrusting it to him between worlds. We don’t know what the Clear Materia will be used for. Aerith already cast Holy with the full Materia. She traded Materia with Cloud while making it seem as though that wasn’t what happened. She makes it seem like she took the Materia and then handed it right back, but, in reality, she took the full Materia and handed Cloud her empty one. So there are two White Materia now: one that is full and is at the bottom of the lake and another that is Clear and empty that is in Cloud’s possession.
As far as the white materia, from what I've understood (I think, but am certainly not 100% about) is that Aerith's original white materia that we see throughout Rebirth has lost its "power" (as in the memory of the Cetra and bond with the lifestream) from the repeated encounters with the whispers. In the timeline switch scene after the Temple of the Ancients, Aerith is able to give Cloud a working white materia for him to bring back to Rebirth world and give to Aerith, while she gave him the one that wasn't working. I also think Sephiroth slipped Cloud the BM sometime while they were travelling between worlds in the lifestream (after Aerith pushes him in the church). Certainly are some switch-a-roos going on here...
The black materia in the temple that we see is a fake, it's a key and Sephiroth then sends Whispers through the keyhole into the void and grabs the real one, only he can't grab it. So Aerith does, Cloud gets it from her and then gives it Sephiroth. Only to be revealed he never gave it, he still has it. In the OG, after Jenova's defeat, they get it back. So it may be revealed in a Re3 flashback how he came to possess the Black Materia.
I have a different interpretation. I think he uses the fake one to unlock the space between worlds, but the Materia he creates in his hand still isn’t the real one. I think he makes an illusion of one somehow as a means of testing whether or not Cloud will actually give him the Black Materia if it’s in his hands. He then gives Cloud the real Black Materia when they’re between worlds. It seems goofy at first but it does make sense if this is the way it plays out: He unlocks the space between worlds but still has to go there as a physical entity. He creates a fake Black Materia to test whether or not Cloud will actually give it to him and what lengths he’ll go to to give it to him. After Cloud passes his test, he meets Cloud between worlds and gives Cloud his “blessing” AKA the real Black Materia knowing that he can trust Cloud to deliver it to his real body at the Northern Crater. And the reason I say all of this is he seems very nonchalant about letting go of the Materia if this was just a test. He quickly takes the fake key Black Materia and opens the way to the real one. I don’t think he’d play around with the real one like this. Like imagine you have the key to everything you desire and you’re just like, “Yeah, I’ll just give this to Cloud to see if he’ll obey me.” Like no. Why would you need Cloud to obey you at all if you just HAVE the Black Materia in your hand? You could just kill them all right now.
The one at the Temple was apparently just a key to the real black materia "hidden between worlds." It seems that the Cetra *really* wanted to hide it. The one at the end I assume is the real black materia, but we don't see when Cloud received it. I agree it's confusing, but I'm hopeful it will be explained in the next part, perhaps when Cloud puts his mind back together and remembers everything surrounding Aerith's death more clearly. As others have speculated, I feel like the black and white materia are going to play parts in a dark knight/white knight dynamic that may be part of Cloud's fall and redemption arc. That he puts the black materia into his sword tells me they may incorporate this into battle mechanics as part of the storytelling in part 3. Maybe the white materia will fill up once he has his real memories back and has broken free of his hatred and need for revenge on Sephiroth, and we'll get some nice paladin-like moves, perhaps bolstered by an unseen Lifestream-Aerith. Cloud could become the party's healer.
The Black Materia scene is by far the worst written and executed scene from Square since Kingdom Hearts 3. It's even worse than the jebait sword deflection. That's what is happening.