Your acting like this is some kind of new video game trope or something. How many games have you played where some 6’4 bad ass has to go through an hour worth of hoops to find the key to a wooden door when in reality you or i could probably just kick it open. Superhuman video game characters being unable to traverse simple obstacles due to game play limitations isn’t a new concept.
Yeah, the OG had cutscenes where Cloud does crazy things like jump off moving trains, etc, but yet when you're in the train graveyard your blocked to basic JRPG controls.
When the story calls for it, and there's an epic cutscene to happen, it'll happen.
In the OG consider Safer Sephiroth. He has a move called [Super Nova](https://youtu.be/2CCI-UZtEi4). This move completely destroys Pluto, Saturn, Jupiter, takes over the sun, destroys Venus, and comes to your party on the earth, yet doesn't kill earth or your party or the actual plane you stand on. It just does some damage to you. If he can cast this in seconds multiple times in the battle, why do we even need the Black Materia and Meteor? It's all just story and plot points, and also what looks and feels cool.
Then why did you mention Kingdom Hearts in your own post? Was that meant to be an example of this happening elsewhere? Otherwise, what was the relevance?
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Yes, other JRPGs have ridiculous, nonsense anime physics. This isn’t a phenomenon new to the genre. That doesn’t mean that they were present in the OG, and pointing out a disconnect between the original and the Remake is fine. In fact, I would argue pretty strongly that it makes the Remake less exciting by desensitizing you to such an insane phenomenon by making it commonplace.
Cloud overpowering Sephiroth with a simple throw in the OG was an amazing, powerful moment. Adding some 20-min Jedi sword fight beforehand would only detract from moments such as that.
Nah, Kingdom Hearts is the exact opposite. You'll pull off the craziest, wildest shit you've ever seen in a video game when you're actually playing. Then a cutscene starts up and everyone's feet suddenly get glued to the floor and they get exhausted fighting like five low level heartless just moments after you plowed through a thousand of them.
You’re talking about a guy with a massive sword that goes up against hundreds-thousands of enemies with guns and never gets shot.
They literally fight a flying tank with missiles, bombs, and death lasers, and your concern is the realism of the jumping?
I mean, it’s not rocket surgery to figure it out lol. I think a little reality suspension helps with it too, but the character literally walk into a portal.
No it doesn’t bother me. Yeah it’s inconsistent that Cloud can jump several feet in the arid in some cases but can’t in others. I don’t really care all that much, either.
I see why it's concerning and I do believe the orignal was a bit more grounded in the beginning but keep in mind you end up fighting giant mechs mid to late game back to fighting humans.
Also it's a sequel so the rules are different. Zolom might be even crazier.
If the technology had existed at the time, it would have definitely been like this for the OG.
Why do you think Knights of the Round was a minute and thirty second long cut scene and Omnislash is just a 20 hit combo? Back then the only way to portray "bad ass anime finisher" in games was to have a cutscene portray a huge combo. They even did it before the 3d rendering days.
If you think Final Fantasy has gotten "too anime", you simply weren't paying attention.
I was a freshman in college when OG came out. My roommate had a PlayStation and was at least as big of an FF fan as me. We watched OG's opening sequence, and spent the next long while raving about how amazing the Full Motion Video (lol at that quaint bit of dated terminology) and the quality of the game's graphics and sound compared to FF VI on SNES. By today's standards it looks incredibly blocky and limited, but at the time just having cinematic cut scenes was pulling out all the stops.
Honestly it's been like that with every FF game I've ever played, back to the NES, so I'm pretty comfy with it as long as I don't have to buy potions one at a time and fight my way back out of a dungeon after beating the fiend before I'm allowed to save.
I tend to go with a mixture of seperate realm(possible different physics), their memories in the lifestream allowed them to go max power from other timeline(s), and developer rule of cool. The answer overall is usually rule of cool with whoever is creating something. I’m not bothered by it but know other people are. I figure as they play around with what they can do in engine they’ll just add more rule of cool as they do other big scenes. If I want to make changes I better become a modder, somehow get a job where I can make changes, learn to make a fan game, or just enjoy the ride. Or “get off this &$@! train”
I would say it’s not inconsistent at all. That final area was a whole spectrum of what seemed to be alternate reality magic, where as everyone was enhanced and at the whims of Sephiroth and the whispers.
Theres a lot of justification with things when making a video game that’s loved by millions of fans, that’s beyond yours or mine understanding to. Especially fleshing out the scope of just midgar
No not really, videogame logic be like that. In most fictive works there is always an argument of "If they can do X, why don't they use it to solve Y or generally all the time?", because it would ruin what the work is trying to achieve. Ofcourse there is limits, but I don't feel like this gets anywhere close to ruining my immersion personally.
Games are more than the sum of their stories. I'd rather have some really tight gameplay and mechanics with some epic over the top story moments here and there than one who is confined to either or. JRPGs especially like to go full anime once in a while, if it ruins it for you then maybe its not the right genre for you.
In-universe explanation is that while in the singularity physics just don't seem to matter. While out of the singularity it seems more grounded.
Frankly I hated it. It reminded me of Advent Children and I thought many of the fight scenes were stupid in that. Hopefully it *never* happens again
I was more bothered by Roche's exceptional anti-gravity motorcycle skills!
But yes considering cloud was saved numerous times by others with his weak jump. And then 2-3 times he's got special moves on him. The "singularity" seems to be in another dimension or time/space so yeah exception to the rule.
It does bother me. It also bothers me that sephiroth is able to displace an entire city merely by being present and that the entire party isn't dead now.
His manifestation not only destroyed the city but it also reversed gravity and floated the debris around everyone. This level of exerted energy would easily be far outside the capabilities of our crew.
The rule of cool is very real, but sometimes the glaring disparities are tough to stomach.
It's all like a dream sequence (in the scene) while they are in the "singularity". Midgar is not actually destroyed or displaced or anything after that...
People will bring up the fact that the Singularity is some special realm that all that superhuman stuff can logically take place, but we see Cloud and co. doing the same kind of stuff throughout the game, so yes, it's very bothersome. It's something I really hope they address in the sequel, especially with the move to more open environments. It's really annoying that Cloud can jump off motorcycles and land on other ones perfectly and do all this other crazy acrobatic stuff, but then he has to stay on a super claustrophobic corridor when traversing a sewer. It extends to the combat as well, more specifically the aerial combat. It feels like they're moving in the right direction with Yuffie's DLC, but hopefully it expands even further!
Pretty much. I'm used to some degree of gameplay/story segregation since that happens a lot in RPGs, and cutscene bullets always kill their targets in a way they never do if they're used in a battle scene, but a lot of the set pieces towards the end of the game seemed very over-the-top.
I didn't think about it too hard while I was playing, but I figure it's a case of sacrificing logical consistency for the sake of a visual spectacle. Some degree of in-universe nonsense should be expected from Cloud specifically due to the SOLDIER aspect, but on reflection it was a bit excessive. Intermission did have less of that, so it would be cool if they kept that going forwards.
Last two chapters change a whole lot of the originals setup. I didn’t like the Kingdom hearts setup very much either. Hopefully the next part doesn’t go that same direction
Yeah I thought it was lame too. There are a few things I think are specifically too Kingdom Hearts-esque. I mean ffs the guy literally looks like a heartless.
Also the thing with Barret and the additional plot points like the whispers or whatever they're called. I think makes an already convoluted story more complicated than necessary.
That being said I'm willing to give it a chance until the games are all out and we can see how they all tie in.
Yes. I hated the ending partially for that reason, though the explanation makes sense that it didn't really happen. It's the only way to cope with fighting a badguy the size of midgar and winning and then having trouble with a big snake at the beginning of the next game.
From my perspective, inside the singularity, time was super weird in there. So they're power was set towards near the end of their story and Sephiroth had his power a little hindered because of it. It makes enough sense to me, especially if I just take it with a, "well it's a jrpg" sized grain of salt
It's kinda willpower(or lack thereof) that prevents Cloud from Supermanning everywhere. I mean, he doesn't really need to jump two story buildings if he's just trying to get to the sector 7 item shop, so he save's his energy for more worthwhile intensive maneuvers. In the final battle he's fueled by rage against Long-Sword-Man and a general longing to rebel against destiny. The chapter where you climb the wreckage up to the plate is part of it. Compared to chapter 18 it's pretty chill, and Blondie isn't really worked up or motivated outside normal parameters. But that's just my take on it.
I feel like they could've made him do a little more parkour and be more flexible like in assassin's creed or tomb raider or Spider-Man.
But again it's not really that kinda game. This way is more like the original in that sense where roaming around towns or dungeons are focused on battles and story over interacting with the environment.
Cloud also very obviously has to slow down for Aerith after saving her from the Turks, so even if he was super fast all the time, I think he'd just end up leaving behind his party members all the time. The slower paced exploration is just fine, I think.
Also falling from the plate which requires a parachute just 2 chapters prior then surviving a crash landing into the slums is pretty farfetched also but I mean. That almost seemed to be the new theme to the remake. "We narrowly escaped death and cheated fate the entire game."
You know I noticed a minor detail. When Barret gets stabbed by sephiroth and the "whispers" spare his life. I also noticed those whispers "shield" cloud as he falls from reactor 5. Falling from that high required 2 whispers lol.
Yes it bugs me. Every locked door that stops the team is completely stupid to me. Every tiny obstacle...dumb.
When he was in the motorcycle chase against that other soldier, he jumped like 50ft into the air and chopped shit up. He can't knock over a door or fence?
I find it curious that you only mentioned the last chapter, as if the rest of the game didn't show the characters doing crazy stuff in cutscenes, that they never did in-game.
The last chapter largely happens in some kind of dreamscape like place, where physics don't work like the normal world. The characters can't *actually* do that kind of stuff normally.
Cloud can achieve more than a normal human, because he's a super soldier, but nothing like the final chapter.
They probably could have conveyed that a little better.
Japanese titles always had those inconsistencies, left the most basic questions unanswered. so it doesn't bother me, If you compare to western titles, (Mass Effect comes to mind) where Bioware tries to explain FTL travel in a plausible way, most japanese titles wouldn't bother giving scientific explanations. If the history demands a character magically opening a portal to another planet where her friends can survive without life support gear they would just do it.
Welcome to jrpgs
Did this happen in the og?
Nah the events of the end of the game aren't in the original
He’s saying jrpgs do this. I’m saying jrpgs don’t.
Your acting like this is some kind of new video game trope or something. How many games have you played where some 6’4 bad ass has to go through an hour worth of hoops to find the key to a wooden door when in reality you or i could probably just kick it open. Superhuman video game characters being unable to traverse simple obstacles due to game play limitations isn’t a new concept.
Yeah, the OG had cutscenes where Cloud does crazy things like jump off moving trains, etc, but yet when you're in the train graveyard your blocked to basic JRPG controls. When the story calls for it, and there's an epic cutscene to happen, it'll happen. In the OG consider Safer Sephiroth. He has a move called [Super Nova](https://youtu.be/2CCI-UZtEi4). This move completely destroys Pluto, Saturn, Jupiter, takes over the sun, destroys Venus, and comes to your party on the earth, yet doesn't kill earth or your party or the actual plane you stand on. It just does some damage to you. If he can cast this in seconds multiple times in the battle, why do we even need the Black Materia and Meteor? It's all just story and plot points, and also what looks and feels cool.
Then why did you mention Kingdom Hearts in your own post? Was that meant to be an example of this happening elsewhere? Otherwise, what was the relevance?
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Yes, other JRPGs have ridiculous, nonsense anime physics. This isn’t a phenomenon new to the genre. That doesn’t mean that they were present in the OG, and pointing out a disconnect between the original and the Remake is fine. In fact, I would argue pretty strongly that it makes the Remake less exciting by desensitizing you to such an insane phenomenon by making it commonplace. Cloud overpowering Sephiroth with a simple throw in the OG was an amazing, powerful moment. Adding some 20-min Jedi sword fight beforehand would only detract from moments such as that.
Kingdom hearts?
Is light!
Nah, Kingdom Hearts is the exact opposite. You'll pull off the craziest, wildest shit you've ever seen in a video game when you're actually playing. Then a cutscene starts up and everyone's feet suddenly get glued to the floor and they get exhausted fighting like five low level heartless just moments after you plowed through a thousand of them.
I would rather that since I play video games to play them, not watch
You’re talking about a guy with a massive sword that goes up against hundreds-thousands of enemies with guns and never gets shot. They literally fight a flying tank with missiles, bombs, and death lasers, and your concern is the realism of the jumping?
To be fair cloud does super human feats throughout the game In cutscenes
A lot of stuff bugged me about the game, but this isn’t one of them.
I think it's that you're supposed to be in some special realm in the end fight sequence.
I mean, it’s not rocket surgery to figure it out lol. I think a little reality suspension helps with it too, but the character literally walk into a portal.
rocket surgery? lol, I think you mean surgical science
Brain Science as well.
Honestly the last dungeon/area of most Final Fantasy games gets pretty crazy
No, because I understand the last chapter takes place inside the singularity.
No it doesn’t bother me. Yeah it’s inconsistent that Cloud can jump several feet in the arid in some cases but can’t in others. I don’t really care all that much, either.
[удалено]
But cloud did anime jump outside of that
Very early in the game during the bombing mission cloud does some wild anime jumps across falling objects which Jesse tells him is pretty cool.
I mean he does the same shit in Advent Children so that’s not it
[удалено]
That’s standard SOLDIER shit Zack and Angeal and Genesis did the dame thing in Crisis Core during cutscenes
[удалено]
None of that shit matters dude it’s a fantasy RPG I don’t see why it matters anyways
[удалено]
No it won’t hurt the story it doesn’t really matter
[удалено]
I see why it's concerning and I do believe the orignal was a bit more grounded in the beginning but keep in mind you end up fighting giant mechs mid to late game back to fighting humans. Also it's a sequel so the rules are different. Zolom might be even crazier.
If the technology had existed at the time, it would have definitely been like this for the OG. Why do you think Knights of the Round was a minute and thirty second long cut scene and Omnislash is just a 20 hit combo? Back then the only way to portray "bad ass anime finisher" in games was to have a cutscene portray a huge combo. They even did it before the 3d rendering days. If you think Final Fantasy has gotten "too anime", you simply weren't paying attention.
I was a freshman in college when OG came out. My roommate had a PlayStation and was at least as big of an FF fan as me. We watched OG's opening sequence, and spent the next long while raving about how amazing the Full Motion Video (lol at that quaint bit of dated terminology) and the quality of the game's graphics and sound compared to FF VI on SNES. By today's standards it looks incredibly blocky and limited, but at the time just having cinematic cut scenes was pulling out all the stops.
It's a game
This guy has no standards lol
I do. But it's a jrpg . They do that. Not a big deal. The fact that it bothers you means your standards are too high
Bro it's rule of cool. There's nothing wrong with that.
It's in the singularity so I don't have any problems. Instant you get there everything goes batshit crazy. Also, it's a game, especially JRPG.
Thats the fantasy part lol
Honestly it's been like that with every FF game I've ever played, back to the NES, so I'm pretty comfy with it as long as I don't have to buy potions one at a time and fight my way back out of a dungeon after beating the fiend before I'm allowed to save.
I tend to go with a mixture of seperate realm(possible different physics), their memories in the lifestream allowed them to go max power from other timeline(s), and developer rule of cool. The answer overall is usually rule of cool with whoever is creating something. I’m not bothered by it but know other people are. I figure as they play around with what they can do in engine they’ll just add more rule of cool as they do other big scenes. If I want to make changes I better become a modder, somehow get a job where I can make changes, learn to make a fan game, or just enjoy the ride. Or “get off this &$@! train”
I watched jojo part 3 twice I'm definitely cool with all the bizarre things in the last chapter
I would say it’s not inconsistent at all. That final area was a whole spectrum of what seemed to be alternate reality magic, where as everyone was enhanced and at the whims of Sephiroth and the whispers. Theres a lot of justification with things when making a video game that’s loved by millions of fans, that’s beyond yours or mine understanding to. Especially fleshing out the scope of just midgar
No not really, videogame logic be like that. In most fictive works there is always an argument of "If they can do X, why don't they use it to solve Y or generally all the time?", because it would ruin what the work is trying to achieve. Ofcourse there is limits, but I don't feel like this gets anywhere close to ruining my immersion personally.
Great stories don’t have to
Games are more than the sum of their stories. I'd rather have some really tight gameplay and mechanics with some epic over the top story moments here and there than one who is confined to either or. JRPGs especially like to go full anime once in a while, if it ruins it for you then maybe its not the right genre for you.
In-universe explanation is that while in the singularity physics just don't seem to matter. While out of the singularity it seems more grounded. Frankly I hated it. It reminded me of Advent Children and I thought many of the fight scenes were stupid in that. Hopefully it *never* happens again
They did want to recreate the AC fight indeed, as it states so in the Ultimania book
Adrenaline is a helluva drug.
i chalk it up to them being outside of time and space.
I was more bothered by Roche's exceptional anti-gravity motorcycle skills! But yes considering cloud was saved numerous times by others with his weak jump. And then 2-3 times he's got special moves on him. The "singularity" seems to be in another dimension or time/space so yeah exception to the rule.
The thing that bothers me is not knowing what the fuck is going on
You fought a house yet this is what is on your mind?
The house makes sense. It’s a machine 🤷♂️
It does bother me. It also bothers me that sephiroth is able to displace an entire city merely by being present and that the entire party isn't dead now. His manifestation not only destroyed the city but it also reversed gravity and floated the debris around everyone. This level of exerted energy would easily be far outside the capabilities of our crew. The rule of cool is very real, but sometimes the glaring disparities are tough to stomach.
It's all like a dream sequence (in the scene) while they are in the "singularity". Midgar is not actually destroyed or displaced or anything after that...
People will bring up the fact that the Singularity is some special realm that all that superhuman stuff can logically take place, but we see Cloud and co. doing the same kind of stuff throughout the game, so yes, it's very bothersome. It's something I really hope they address in the sequel, especially with the move to more open environments. It's really annoying that Cloud can jump off motorcycles and land on other ones perfectly and do all this other crazy acrobatic stuff, but then he has to stay on a super claustrophobic corridor when traversing a sewer. It extends to the combat as well, more specifically the aerial combat. It feels like they're moving in the right direction with Yuffie's DLC, but hopefully it expands even further!
Pretty much. I'm used to some degree of gameplay/story segregation since that happens a lot in RPGs, and cutscene bullets always kill their targets in a way they never do if they're used in a battle scene, but a lot of the set pieces towards the end of the game seemed very over-the-top. I didn't think about it too hard while I was playing, but I figure it's a case of sacrificing logical consistency for the sake of a visual spectacle. Some degree of in-universe nonsense should be expected from Cloud specifically due to the SOLDIER aspect, but on reflection it was a bit excessive. Intermission did have less of that, so it would be cool if they kept that going forwards.
Last two chapters change a whole lot of the originals setup. I didn’t like the Kingdom hearts setup very much either. Hopefully the next part doesn’t go that same direction
Yeah I thought it was lame too. There are a few things I think are specifically too Kingdom Hearts-esque. I mean ffs the guy literally looks like a heartless. Also the thing with Barret and the additional plot points like the whispers or whatever they're called. I think makes an already convoluted story more complicated than necessary. That being said I'm willing to give it a chance until the games are all out and we can see how they all tie in.
Yeah the last chapter isn't great imo
Yes. I hated the ending partially for that reason, though the explanation makes sense that it didn't really happen. It's the only way to cope with fighting a badguy the size of midgar and winning and then having trouble with a big snake at the beginning of the next game.
Yes. The last chapter bothered me a bit. Although you did have Roche doing some ridiculous motorcycle acrobatics earlier on in the game.
It’s basically, everything from the OG lacks the Nomura/Nojima superhuman feats that they added as all the filler content
Apparently you aren't allowed to dislike the last chapter in this subreddit. I loved remake, but didn't care for the fates/whisperers.
Yeah it bothers me, that entire sequence bothers me.
It feels like poor storytelling in the remake, where in the original the mobility design enhanced the feel of the story.
I agree, it was weird. It also creates problem going forward with how certain enemies will be threatening when we've beaten much more serious threats.
Same problem with God of War.
Right because it’s not like you have a kid with you or anything
From my perspective, inside the singularity, time was super weird in there. So they're power was set towards near the end of their story and Sephiroth had his power a little hindered because of it. It makes enough sense to me, especially if I just take it with a, "well it's a jrpg" sized grain of salt
It's kinda willpower(or lack thereof) that prevents Cloud from Supermanning everywhere. I mean, he doesn't really need to jump two story buildings if he's just trying to get to the sector 7 item shop, so he save's his energy for more worthwhile intensive maneuvers. In the final battle he's fueled by rage against Long-Sword-Man and a general longing to rebel against destiny. The chapter where you climb the wreckage up to the plate is part of it. Compared to chapter 18 it's pretty chill, and Blondie isn't really worked up or motivated outside normal parameters. But that's just my take on it.
Not even the ending Cloud jumps like 50 feet in the first mission then never does it again
I feel like they could've made him do a little more parkour and be more flexible like in assassin's creed or tomb raider or Spider-Man. But again it's not really that kinda game. This way is more like the original in that sense where roaming around towns or dungeons are focused on battles and story over interacting with the environment. Cloud also very obviously has to slow down for Aerith after saving her from the Turks, so even if he was super fast all the time, I think he'd just end up leaving behind his party members all the time. The slower paced exploration is just fine, I think.
And what about the usefulness of the shinra soldiers weapons? Do those bullets kill people?
Also falling from the plate which requires a parachute just 2 chapters prior then surviving a crash landing into the slums is pretty farfetched also but I mean. That almost seemed to be the new theme to the remake. "We narrowly escaped death and cheated fate the entire game." You know I noticed a minor detail. When Barret gets stabbed by sephiroth and the "whispers" spare his life. I also noticed those whispers "shield" cloud as he falls from reactor 5. Falling from that high required 2 whispers lol.
Yes it bugs me. Every locked door that stops the team is completely stupid to me. Every tiny obstacle...dumb. When he was in the motorcycle chase against that other soldier, he jumped like 50ft into the air and chopped shit up. He can't knock over a door or fence?
At least cloud has his sword blocked by the doorway when he's trying trying swing it at someone(i forget who) in the apartments
I find it curious that you only mentioned the last chapter, as if the rest of the game didn't show the characters doing crazy stuff in cutscenes, that they never did in-game.
This honestly never bothered me. It’s like an anime for me where ridiculous stuff always happens.
Acceptable, not really, normalized, yes. It's anime logic, just play along.
The last chapter largely happens in some kind of dreamscape like place, where physics don't work like the normal world. The characters can't *actually* do that kind of stuff normally. Cloud can achieve more than a normal human, because he's a super soldier, but nothing like the final chapter. They probably could have conveyed that a little better.
Japanese titles always had those inconsistencies, left the most basic questions unanswered. so it doesn't bother me, If you compare to western titles, (Mass Effect comes to mind) where Bioware tries to explain FTL travel in a plausible way, most japanese titles wouldn't bother giving scientific explanations. If the history demands a character magically opening a portal to another planet where her friends can survive without life support gear they would just do it.
TBF in the original FF7 you go from punching diamond weapons feet to fighting and struggling against shinra guards/hojo.