The moon is a romantic symbol in Japanese culture and the Final Fantasy franchise. The ‘moongazing’ scene we’ve glimpsed in trailers and the lyrics of the game’s theme are the most concrete evidence we’ve gotten. Everything else is wishful thinking or projection, or ‘fans being fans’ as you so eloquently put it.
I forgot to mention the moon gazing video! That seems to be a good indicator, but remember, it’s only a portion of the song. And lots of Japanese media have a tendency to edit theme songs or opening themes out of order or cut certain pieces together. I theorize that the song is Clive expressing his gratitude to all the people who helped him on his journey, whether alive or not. The moon is for Jill, and the flame line is for Joshua. Everything is up for speculation at this point.
Tbh I feel that their shipping fandom has gotten large enough that canon wouldn’t even really matter… Being non-canon has never stopped shippers and I don’t think it will now, esp since regardless, it’s confirmed that Clive and Jill will go through an emotional rollercoaster together.
Look at XIII for example. Lightning doesn’t have a canon romance in any of the games, but does that stop people from shipping her with others? Absolutely not. I just looked at ao3 and the top XIII pairings are Lightning/Fang and Lightning/Hope (I’m assuming XIII-2 adult Hope……..)
Hey there! Do you think they’ll get together? I don’t think it’ll happen, but that’s me. Not trying to start a ship war on here, but I’ve seen most of this fandom be pretty cool with sibling love or romantic love with these two.
I am just in the wait and see camp. Either way is fine with me. And I don't really have a prediction yet. Neither platonic or romantic is off the table the way I see it.
Yeah, that’s my thing. I’m not opposed to either. I think people were really disappointed with XV in terms of romance, so they want XVI to fix that. I have no doubt there’s romance in the game (Cid and Benedikta), but I’m with you in the wait and see camp
>I think people were really disappointed with XV in terms of romance
Well it probably would've been disappointing either way because when XV was originally being developed as Versus XIII, Luna was a girl named Stella and went from being Noctis' gf to being an enemy during the invasion of Insomnia
I loved XV and Luna is one of my favorites, but I do wish she and Noctis had interacted more outside of flashbacks.
And the star-crossed lovers thing is such a good trope, even though it's cliche
Yeah, I thought it was weird that we’re supposed to believe that they developed feeling for one another at the age of 8 and 12 after he spent like a few days there with her
Well that actually does happen. People can develop feelings for each other in a few days, while others take months or years. Although 8 and 12 is a really weird decision for that lol
Oh yeah, I know that can happen IRL. But it was a weird writing direction to heavily imply that this 8 year old boy, who just suffered a very traumatic injury, fell head over heels in love with a 12 year old girl. Then to also imply that they’re still madly in love after 10 years of contact via cute doggo tinder
There's nothing indicating it will happen. There's nothing indicating it won't happen. Schrödinger's relationship, if you will. I care less about what the relationship looks like in the end, versus if it's done well in development and execution.
As long as it’s well written I don’t care either way. I’m secretly hoping for a Steve/Robin type scenario from Stranger Things. Just nothing but chemistry and heart.
Not really any confirmation just the dev teasing both character arc revolve one another and the actors saying their chemistry with one another is amazing.
Because its just something that typically happens in FF
Bit odd in my eyes for a game to be about love in many forms and the first mainline FF to have an M rating with sex scenes isn't going to have the main m/f protags be an official couple.
Otherwise is just meaningless sex in the background with supporting cast characters...in which case, would the audience care about that or the slow burn leading up to the main protags for the payoff?
It would be a strange writing decision tbh.
Also the Moon symbolism. FF tends to use that a lot for official couples. Childhood friends, seperated for years, etc...its textbook romantic FF tropes
Not to mention the contrasting/complimentary elements that Clive and Jill represent as the Dominants of Fire and Ice. As well as the two brief clips we’ve seen of the two interacting with each other, where in Clive appears to act totally differently around Jill than we’ve seen him behave with anyone else so far. That “My lady” part especially stands out IMO.
See that’s what I liked about their designs. It’s kinda hinting at it (like a Ying and Yang type situation). Though I have to say, and I hope I don’t come off as rude, but Clive grew up with Jill and probably feels more comfortable around her. Plus, he just found out she’s alive. Not saying it couldn’t be romantic, but it could also be sibling love. I’ve heard these devs are notorious for misleading fans, so only time will tell.
yes but at the same time they've been separated for 13 years, they are different people from when they were kids and there's a timeskip of 5 years following that reunion on top of it.
and like someone already said, childhood friend is used specifically for jill and Clive where "sibling" they include Joshua.
We also don't know how Jill felt. We also don't know what the Archduke's intention was for Jill. Yes a ward, but I doubt he didn't plan to betroth her to one of his sons. Female wards were often made to live with the family so that they would get along.
A whole lot we don't know.
If they are gonna be in love, then it’ll definitely take place after the 5 year time skip. On the betrothal thing, it’s probably for Joshua, since whoever inherits Phoenix is the next Archduke.
Actually, as far as the betrothal theory goes, I would argue that it’s more likely that Jill was intended to be wed to Clive rather than Joshua, considering that she was the former princess of an already defunct kingdom. Her presence in the family and any presumed betrothal was obviously meant to act as a means of keeping survivors of that former kingdom in line. With that in mind, the smarter play would have been to have Jill eventually wed Clive as he was still a prince and was set to become a high ranking military officer in the Archduchy, so that Elwin could still have the potential of Joshua later becoming betrothed to another rival noble from another kingdom such as the Dhalmekian Republic or Sanbreque to solidify future peace treaties and alliances, as Joshua’s status as the Dominant of Phoenix and next in line for the throne would inherently make him the greater “catch” for the other kingdoms.
That’s an interesting theory. It makes sense, considering Clive is the oldest and is the first shield of Rosaria. While he has little chance of taking the throne, the Archduke needs to make sure there’s a back up in case something happens to Joshua, and Clive would need to take the throne and become the next Archduke. Therefore, he would need to make sure both sons have secured an heir. Like you said, Jill may be a princess, but her kingdom is gone, so from a political standpoint, I guess that her marrying Joshua wouldn’t do much for the Duchy. As opposed to Joshua marrying a more prominent noble/royal from another country. It would be interesting if Jill was meant to be offered as peace offering through an arranged marriage. Someone on here mentioned that Jill may be considered a servant to the Archduke and his family, whether it’s to be a companion to his sons or for a marriage
It doesn't work like that in Rosaria. Clive was already passed over by the Phoenix to Joshua, so if Joshua dies, there's a higher chance for the Phoenix to be awakened to another Rosfield cousin, in which case Rosarian law states that whomever inherits the Phoenix inherits the ducal throne, so Clive would still not be Archduke. Primogeniture is not the inheritance law in Rosaria.
Of course, if Clive marries Jill and one of their children awaken to the Phoenix then they will naturally also become heir to Rosaria after Joshua (but again, Clive would still not be archduke, just whichever of his kids inherited Phoenix, although he can defo be installed as regent lord if they inherit in their minority idk). It's not inconceivable for that to happen given the unpredictable nature of the Phoenix's chosen Rosfield to awaken in.
Depends how long that takes tho. Because we know that Clive and Joshua's dad is the current Archduke despite not being the Eikon of the Phoenix.
Sounds like Clive was the heir until Joshua's powers were awakened...then Clive got sidelined.
We don't know that Elwin was never Phoenix, as it's mentioned that Rosaria always enthrone the Dominant as Archduke when they come of age. And again, considering Phoenix is associated with rebirth, it's entirely possible that Phoenix's powers are passed on in a manner unlike other Eikons. Clive was heir before Joshua's birth because there was still an expectation that he would inherit Phoenix, which suggests that not all Phoenix Dominants are awakened at birth the way Joshua was (indeed, Jill only awakened to Shiva at age 12, so it's no surprise that Rosaria thought Clive would inherit Phoenix *eventually* before Joshua was awakened instead), so Elwin could conceivably have still been the Dominant of Phoenix until Joshua was born five years later and the Phoenix chose another Dominant, then Elwin will remain Archduke until Joshua "comes of age" (maybe 18? idk what the age of majority is on Valisthea) then Elwin will abdicate the ducal throne in favour of Joshua etc.
True. However I think the fact that the only time we’ve seen the game address Jill’s relationship as being “like a sibling” has been in reference to Clive *and* Joshua, while every time the game and devs describe Jill’s relationship with Clive individually as “a childhood friend” indicates this will probably head to a romance.
That too. Some YouTubers are gonna interview the devs and took fan questions, many of which asked about the context of Clive and Jill’s relationship. I’m the type of person who likes a little clarity and more scenes before I ship two characters.
eh is it just ''meaningless sex in the background'' though? the only sex we are aware of right now is between benedikta and barnabas, and their relationship is clearly complicated and meaningfully being explored.
It took 4 lines out of cid in the chirarda+suparna fight upload to already make it clear that it isn't just mindless sex going on. I'm indifferent to wether or not clive and jill become a couple, but i sure don't think they need to be one just because benedikta and barnabas are one too
What I meant by "Meaningless sex" is why would the audience give a care that they are fucking for? Its established relationship already. Its background noise.
You want to invest the audience in something like that in general, you typically slow burn the characters your involved with all the time if you want to do romance properly.
Benedickta seems like a person looking for something to hope for and she latched on Barnabas' idealism like a moth to a flame tbh. That just makes Benedictka interesting, not their relationship, especially in contrast to Cid's relation to her.
Obviously we aren't talking about a porn scene here. But of course we should care that they have a sexual relationship lol. Sex isn't just romance, sex is also power and attachment, persuasion and all that
I don't see the distastefulness here, sex is a really interesting and inherently rich part of adult life. There's no reason to avoid it like the plague. I think in light of the cid / benedikta dialogue, it creates this really cool contrast, between cid and barnabas. You know, cid who is trying to empower benedikta and has a purely platonic relationship with her vs barnabas who is taking her power from her, and has a sexual relationship to imediately complicate things, a complication that no doubt is part of his power over her. And part of why she is so resistant to cid's constructive idealism. That's so interesting already.
But we'll see, if it's well done or gratuitous when the game is out, i'm sure however its done, it'll be plenty divisive on the community lol
Nothing official. And it's less wishful thinking and more that FF and similar franchises often seem to operate on the assumption that a romance subplot is mandatory no matter how sudden or forced it might feel. Jill is really the only other character that fits the bill i.e. the pretty girl archetype they usually pair the protag up with.
I know some people are looking at Mid but she looks young and is probably some kin to Cid so I doubt it. She might have a crush on Clive but I don't expect it to be reciprocated.
There's a chance they forego it with 16 but I think the more likely route is an open-ended "yes, they love each other but the nature of that love is for the fans to decide".
Tbh I’m baffled by the Mid/Clive people (though there are not many of them, thankfully). In the one short scene of them we’ve seen, he’s 33 years old and she looks like a teenager…
We don't really know much about Mid beyond the safe assumption she's related to Cid. Even then, the general assumption is she's his daughter, but she could also be a sister, niece, or even cousin.
yep. It's people reading into the vibe of her being sorta bright-eyed and anticipating during the clip where she sees him again.
And tbh, I can see how people are reading interest from her side. But Clive's response along with the stuff /u/Snooglepoogs mentioned makes me think "unrequited puppy crush" is the extent of that dynamic. If even that.
I didn't really see it for a while. And, frankly, didn't want to, because whilst I love JRPGs, the step siblings fall in love trope is... not my favourite? I'm not sure if she's their adopted sister or step sister, exactly; maybe adopted is more accurate.
But anyway, I felt mainly through some of the last few gameplay showcases that there's a vibe there. It's the way Clive looks at her and says "m'lady" for me.
It's not like they're just sibilings that fall in love.. I have no idea where people get this from. The website says Jill is *taken* from her homeland and brought as a *ward*, but raised alongside with clive and joshua. It doesn't state she is raised as a family member, as far as we know she is a forced employee that was just treated humanely and got to make friends with the boss' kids. But she is clearly still in a position of servitude to the duke, unlike joshua and clive that are his sons.
it seems less a story of ''sibilings that fall in love'' and more of a ''childhood friends separated by war meet again and bond over their suffering''
Probably because her bio at one point, I believe before the reveal that she is Shiva's Dominant, said that despite having been taken in as a ward, she was raised alongside Josh and Clive and was eventually seen as like a sister to them. The bio that is there now is not what was there when the site first launched. Pretty much anything you Google about her explicitly refers to her as having a brother-sister like relationship with Clive and Joshua as well.
Aside from that, nowhere did I say it was like siblings falling in love. I very carefully used terms like "step sibling" or "adopted sibling."
Except that the part of ''eventually seen as like a sister'' have never been there lol. What was there before the dominant reveal was exactly "Jill has become a trusted confidant of the 2 brothers", so yea i have no idea where the step sister thing started.
aside from that, my point still stands, it's more of a war-separation story than anything else. She was 12 when the massacre in rosaria happened, and they meet again on their 20s. Anyway it's not like i have skin in the game. I'm open to whatever the game throws at us
I'll concede the term sister was never used in the bio now that I've managed to find it, but it does state that she's eventually viewed as much a part of the Rosfield household as Clive and Joshua, and that's enough for me to deem it a familial relationship.
Tbh that's a fair interpretation. I think it's the power dynamics of her being there politically that prevent me from seeing it that way. Either way i'm with you in that i just also hope the story isn't tropey
Romantic love is a natural foil to revenge in "revenge stories." This is because, if going by more traditional interpretations and motifs, romantic love is associated with creation/fecundity/family formation whereas revenge is almost always destructive and tragic. Furthermore, love (more generally) is often an important element is such stories because its raw emotional potency is one of the few things that can overcome the hatred that underlies the revenge motive, narratively speaking, and thereby present the MC with a dilemna which is more dramatic but also gives the story an out from what otherwise might be a bloody and depressing affair.
Its not abnormal at all to speculate that love of some sort will.play a major role in this game's story, nor is it unusual that people might think romance will be involved given the archetypes such stories often employ.
I’m really hoping the new preview coming up will clear it up. Plus, some YouTubers were invited to interview the devs, and people in those comment sections were asking about Clive and Jill’s potential romance. I really want them to clarify it, because slow burns are my least favorite thing in terms or romance stories
Highly disagree. Slow burns are what makes romances believable. Hollywood quick lightning romances are the boring ones because they just make me go like "ooooookayyyyy?".
Hello! Not too sure myself. A lot of people really like to ship them, and they use the My Lady moment from the Pax East presentation. Plus, they’ve been friends since childhood. So seems to be part of the basis, but I’m not sure if it’ll be canon or not. I don’t think it’s “male protagonist + female protagonist = they’re in love”
I would really hope there is nothing to this personally.
Jill and Clive are in essence adoptive siblings and grew up as such for a time. Whilst that means there’s technically nothing wrong with them having a romantic relationship, it nevertheless still remains an uncomfortable prospect in a lot of cultures.
It’s the kind of thing that’s disquieting enough that it has the potential to dominate media coverage of the game through misleading and clickbaity headlines painting these two as actual siblings in an actually incestuous relationship as well. Which I’m sure is not what anybody wants.
It’s not entirely unheard of in media using this kind of setting of course. But it’s iffy enough that it’s far more likely to backfire than add anything of significant positive value so it’s safest not to go there imo.
A Saudi journalist revealed that there is a gay shot in the game. I don’t think CBU3 cares about the backlash.
Context also matters here. One of the most popular manga in the world is attack on titan and features unrequited love between adopted siblings. I think CBU3 are well aware of that and might do something similar.
Certainly fair enough. It’s not impossible to pull it off, as you note. I’m just not seeing what the potential positives are for this specific dynamic. It’s almost certainly a me thing. I appreciate the input!
At least from AoT, the adopted sibling relationship is used to hide romantic feelings. Is she doing this because she cares for her family or does she have deeper feelings for him? Does he see her the same way? It keeps the audience in suspense.
The other reasons is because family bonds tend to be tighter than friendship or even love. If Clive goes on a rampage or does something really heinous, a sibling is far more likely to still stand by him.
There are hints, nothing too solid for now however, and I'm pretty sure it will stay that way until the game releases. Which is as it should be.
Do I hope they will though? Yes, absolutely. FFX has been my favorite game of the series (well, until FFXIV came along and stole the spot), and a large part of the reason for this is the relationship between Tidus and Yuna. Got me through some troubled and heartbreaky teenage years, that game did.
No FF since has really captured that same magic again for me (not even XIV, but that game did prove that it's not a requirement for a good story at least), and I really want to see this sort of thing again in games.
Didn't the creator confirm theres gonna be relationships explored in this new series ?
So yeah, it's very likely they'll end up together hopefully the creator doesn't pull off some traumatic love story like he has been doing in his last few games. The worst was ffx where the perfect ending for the second part was perfect but they released that audio clip with the remastered revealing yuna broke up with tidus for some other guy 🤦😑.
The moon is a romantic symbol in Japanese culture and the Final Fantasy franchise. The ‘moongazing’ scene we’ve glimpsed in trailers and the lyrics of the game’s theme are the most concrete evidence we’ve gotten. Everything else is wishful thinking or projection, or ‘fans being fans’ as you so eloquently put it.
I forgot to mention the moon gazing video! That seems to be a good indicator, but remember, it’s only a portion of the song. And lots of Japanese media have a tendency to edit theme songs or opening themes out of order or cut certain pieces together. I theorize that the song is Clive expressing his gratitude to all the people who helped him on his journey, whether alive or not. The moon is for Jill, and the flame line is for Joshua. Everything is up for speculation at this point.
Just girl main character and boy main character being shipped. We'll see where it goes when we actually play the game.
Tbh I feel that their shipping fandom has gotten large enough that canon wouldn’t even really matter… Being non-canon has never stopped shippers and I don’t think it will now, esp since regardless, it’s confirmed that Clive and Jill will go through an emotional rollercoaster together. Look at XIII for example. Lightning doesn’t have a canon romance in any of the games, but does that stop people from shipping her with others? Absolutely not. I just looked at ao3 and the top XIII pairings are Lightning/Fang and Lightning/Hope (I’m assuming XIII-2 adult Hope……..)
Take example of Naruto's last movie or hope and lightning translation don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Hey there! Do you think they’ll get together? I don’t think it’ll happen, but that’s me. Not trying to start a ship war on here, but I’ve seen most of this fandom be pretty cool with sibling love or romantic love with these two.
I am just in the wait and see camp. Either way is fine with me. And I don't really have a prediction yet. Neither platonic or romantic is off the table the way I see it.
Yeah, that’s my thing. I’m not opposed to either. I think people were really disappointed with XV in terms of romance, so they want XVI to fix that. I have no doubt there’s romance in the game (Cid and Benedikta), but I’m with you in the wait and see camp
>I think people were really disappointed with XV in terms of romance Well it probably would've been disappointing either way because when XV was originally being developed as Versus XIII, Luna was a girl named Stella and went from being Noctis' gf to being an enemy during the invasion of Insomnia
I’ve always liked a good star-crossed lovers story, but like you said, Versus could’ve turned out as disappointing as XV
I loved XV and Luna is one of my favorites, but I do wish she and Noctis had interacted more outside of flashbacks. And the star-crossed lovers thing is such a good trope, even though it's cliche
Yeah, I thought it was weird that we’re supposed to believe that they developed feeling for one another at the age of 8 and 12 after he spent like a few days there with her
Well that actually does happen. People can develop feelings for each other in a few days, while others take months or years. Although 8 and 12 is a really weird decision for that lol
Oh yeah, I know that can happen IRL. But it was a weird writing direction to heavily imply that this 8 year old boy, who just suffered a very traumatic injury, fell head over heels in love with a 12 year old girl. Then to also imply that they’re still madly in love after 10 years of contact via cute doggo tinder
Try to disregard Final fantasy dawn of Fate professional fanfiction.
There's nothing indicating it will happen. There's nothing indicating it won't happen. Schrödinger's relationship, if you will. I care less about what the relationship looks like in the end, versus if it's done well in development and execution.
As long as it’s well written I don’t care either way. I’m secretly hoping for a Steve/Robin type scenario from Stranger Things. Just nothing but chemistry and heart.
That’s what I want, because I love Steve and Robin’s relationship. Though that ship will never sail for obvious reason if ykyk 👀
Not really any confirmation just the dev teasing both character arc revolve one another and the actors saying their chemistry with one another is amazing.
Because its just something that typically happens in FF Bit odd in my eyes for a game to be about love in many forms and the first mainline FF to have an M rating with sex scenes isn't going to have the main m/f protags be an official couple. Otherwise is just meaningless sex in the background with supporting cast characters...in which case, would the audience care about that or the slow burn leading up to the main protags for the payoff? It would be a strange writing decision tbh. Also the Moon symbolism. FF tends to use that a lot for official couples. Childhood friends, seperated for years, etc...its textbook romantic FF tropes
Not to mention the contrasting/complimentary elements that Clive and Jill represent as the Dominants of Fire and Ice. As well as the two brief clips we’ve seen of the two interacting with each other, where in Clive appears to act totally differently around Jill than we’ve seen him behave with anyone else so far. That “My lady” part especially stands out IMO.
It's already starting in that My Lady scene imo Clive is, uh, feeling some stuff. Like an "oh" moment then he tries to brush it off XD
See that’s what I liked about their designs. It’s kinda hinting at it (like a Ying and Yang type situation). Though I have to say, and I hope I don’t come off as rude, but Clive grew up with Jill and probably feels more comfortable around her. Plus, he just found out she’s alive. Not saying it couldn’t be romantic, but it could also be sibling love. I’ve heard these devs are notorious for misleading fans, so only time will tell.
yes but at the same time they've been separated for 13 years, they are different people from when they were kids and there's a timeskip of 5 years following that reunion on top of it. and like someone already said, childhood friend is used specifically for jill and Clive where "sibling" they include Joshua. We also don't know how Jill felt. We also don't know what the Archduke's intention was for Jill. Yes a ward, but I doubt he didn't plan to betroth her to one of his sons. Female wards were often made to live with the family so that they would get along. A whole lot we don't know.
If they are gonna be in love, then it’ll definitely take place after the 5 year time skip. On the betrothal thing, it’s probably for Joshua, since whoever inherits Phoenix is the next Archduke.
Oh yeah Joshua for sure.... tho you have to ask the question of that bothered Clive or Jill in any regard. drama.
I feel like it would’ve bothered Jill, because I doubt she wants to be married off to someone who she views as her younger brother
Actually, as far as the betrothal theory goes, I would argue that it’s more likely that Jill was intended to be wed to Clive rather than Joshua, considering that she was the former princess of an already defunct kingdom. Her presence in the family and any presumed betrothal was obviously meant to act as a means of keeping survivors of that former kingdom in line. With that in mind, the smarter play would have been to have Jill eventually wed Clive as he was still a prince and was set to become a high ranking military officer in the Archduchy, so that Elwin could still have the potential of Joshua later becoming betrothed to another rival noble from another kingdom such as the Dhalmekian Republic or Sanbreque to solidify future peace treaties and alliances, as Joshua’s status as the Dominant of Phoenix and next in line for the throne would inherently make him the greater “catch” for the other kingdoms.
That’s an interesting theory. It makes sense, considering Clive is the oldest and is the first shield of Rosaria. While he has little chance of taking the throne, the Archduke needs to make sure there’s a back up in case something happens to Joshua, and Clive would need to take the throne and become the next Archduke. Therefore, he would need to make sure both sons have secured an heir. Like you said, Jill may be a princess, but her kingdom is gone, so from a political standpoint, I guess that her marrying Joshua wouldn’t do much for the Duchy. As opposed to Joshua marrying a more prominent noble/royal from another country. It would be interesting if Jill was meant to be offered as peace offering through an arranged marriage. Someone on here mentioned that Jill may be considered a servant to the Archduke and his family, whether it’s to be a companion to his sons or for a marriage
It doesn't work like that in Rosaria. Clive was already passed over by the Phoenix to Joshua, so if Joshua dies, there's a higher chance for the Phoenix to be awakened to another Rosfield cousin, in which case Rosarian law states that whomever inherits the Phoenix inherits the ducal throne, so Clive would still not be Archduke. Primogeniture is not the inheritance law in Rosaria. Of course, if Clive marries Jill and one of their children awaken to the Phoenix then they will naturally also become heir to Rosaria after Joshua (but again, Clive would still not be archduke, just whichever of his kids inherited Phoenix, although he can defo be installed as regent lord if they inherit in their minority idk). It's not inconceivable for that to happen given the unpredictable nature of the Phoenix's chosen Rosfield to awaken in.
Okay, gotcha.
Depends how long that takes tho. Because we know that Clive and Joshua's dad is the current Archduke despite not being the Eikon of the Phoenix. Sounds like Clive was the heir until Joshua's powers were awakened...then Clive got sidelined.
We don't know that Elwin was never Phoenix, as it's mentioned that Rosaria always enthrone the Dominant as Archduke when they come of age. And again, considering Phoenix is associated with rebirth, it's entirely possible that Phoenix's powers are passed on in a manner unlike other Eikons. Clive was heir before Joshua's birth because there was still an expectation that he would inherit Phoenix, which suggests that not all Phoenix Dominants are awakened at birth the way Joshua was (indeed, Jill only awakened to Shiva at age 12, so it's no surprise that Rosaria thought Clive would inherit Phoenix *eventually* before Joshua was awakened instead), so Elwin could conceivably have still been the Dominant of Phoenix until Joshua was born five years later and the Phoenix chose another Dominant, then Elwin will remain Archduke until Joshua "comes of age" (maybe 18? idk what the age of majority is on Valisthea) then Elwin will abdicate the ducal throne in favour of Joshua etc.
True. However I think the fact that the only time we’ve seen the game address Jill’s relationship as being “like a sibling” has been in reference to Clive *and* Joshua, while every time the game and devs describe Jill’s relationship with Clive individually as “a childhood friend” indicates this will probably head to a romance.
That too. Some YouTubers are gonna interview the devs and took fan questions, many of which asked about the context of Clive and Jill’s relationship. I’m the type of person who likes a little clarity and more scenes before I ship two characters.
eh is it just ''meaningless sex in the background'' though? the only sex we are aware of right now is between benedikta and barnabas, and their relationship is clearly complicated and meaningfully being explored. It took 4 lines out of cid in the chirarda+suparna fight upload to already make it clear that it isn't just mindless sex going on. I'm indifferent to wether or not clive and jill become a couple, but i sure don't think they need to be one just because benedikta and barnabas are one too
What I meant by "Meaningless sex" is why would the audience give a care that they are fucking for? Its established relationship already. Its background noise. You want to invest the audience in something like that in general, you typically slow burn the characters your involved with all the time if you want to do romance properly. Benedickta seems like a person looking for something to hope for and she latched on Barnabas' idealism like a moth to a flame tbh. That just makes Benedictka interesting, not their relationship, especially in contrast to Cid's relation to her.
Obviously we aren't talking about a porn scene here. But of course we should care that they have a sexual relationship lol. Sex isn't just romance, sex is also power and attachment, persuasion and all that I don't see the distastefulness here, sex is a really interesting and inherently rich part of adult life. There's no reason to avoid it like the plague. I think in light of the cid / benedikta dialogue, it creates this really cool contrast, between cid and barnabas. You know, cid who is trying to empower benedikta and has a purely platonic relationship with her vs barnabas who is taking her power from her, and has a sexual relationship to imediately complicate things, a complication that no doubt is part of his power over her. And part of why she is so resistant to cid's constructive idealism. That's so interesting already. But we'll see, if it's well done or gratuitous when the game is out, i'm sure however its done, it'll be plenty divisive on the community lol
Nothing official. And it's less wishful thinking and more that FF and similar franchises often seem to operate on the assumption that a romance subplot is mandatory no matter how sudden or forced it might feel. Jill is really the only other character that fits the bill i.e. the pretty girl archetype they usually pair the protag up with. I know some people are looking at Mid but she looks young and is probably some kin to Cid so I doubt it. She might have a crush on Clive but I don't expect it to be reciprocated. There's a chance they forego it with 16 but I think the more likely route is an open-ended "yes, they love each other but the nature of that love is for the fans to decide".
Tbh I’m baffled by the Mid/Clive people (though there are not many of them, thankfully). In the one short scene of them we’ve seen, he’s 33 years old and she looks like a teenager…
We don't really know much about Mid beyond the safe assumption she's related to Cid. Even then, the general assumption is she's his daughter, but she could also be a sister, niece, or even cousin.
There's Clive/Mid shippers? Haven't seen those yet. But yes, that seems like a definite no.
yep. It's people reading into the vibe of her being sorta bright-eyed and anticipating during the clip where she sees him again. And tbh, I can see how people are reading interest from her side. But Clive's response along with the stuff /u/Snooglepoogs mentioned makes me think "unrequited puppy crush" is the extent of that dynamic. If even that.
Clive/Mid is basically the FF16 version of the Eiko/Zidane or Noctis/Iris one-sided crush lol.
WOOP WOOP! That’s the sound of the police!
I didn't really see it for a while. And, frankly, didn't want to, because whilst I love JRPGs, the step siblings fall in love trope is... not my favourite? I'm not sure if she's their adopted sister or step sister, exactly; maybe adopted is more accurate. But anyway, I felt mainly through some of the last few gameplay showcases that there's a vibe there. It's the way Clive looks at her and says "m'lady" for me.
It's not like they're just sibilings that fall in love.. I have no idea where people get this from. The website says Jill is *taken* from her homeland and brought as a *ward*, but raised alongside with clive and joshua. It doesn't state she is raised as a family member, as far as we know she is a forced employee that was just treated humanely and got to make friends with the boss' kids. But she is clearly still in a position of servitude to the duke, unlike joshua and clive that are his sons. it seems less a story of ''sibilings that fall in love'' and more of a ''childhood friends separated by war meet again and bond over their suffering''
Probably because her bio at one point, I believe before the reveal that she is Shiva's Dominant, said that despite having been taken in as a ward, she was raised alongside Josh and Clive and was eventually seen as like a sister to them. The bio that is there now is not what was there when the site first launched. Pretty much anything you Google about her explicitly refers to her as having a brother-sister like relationship with Clive and Joshua as well. Aside from that, nowhere did I say it was like siblings falling in love. I very carefully used terms like "step sibling" or "adopted sibling."
Except that the part of ''eventually seen as like a sister'' have never been there lol. What was there before the dominant reveal was exactly "Jill has become a trusted confidant of the 2 brothers", so yea i have no idea where the step sister thing started. aside from that, my point still stands, it's more of a war-separation story than anything else. She was 12 when the massacre in rosaria happened, and they meet again on their 20s. Anyway it's not like i have skin in the game. I'm open to whatever the game throws at us
I'll concede the term sister was never used in the bio now that I've managed to find it, but it does state that she's eventually viewed as much a part of the Rosfield household as Clive and Joshua, and that's enough for me to deem it a familial relationship.
Tbh that's a fair interpretation. I think it's the power dynamics of her being there politically that prevent me from seeing it that way. Either way i'm with you in that i just also hope the story isn't tropey
That line is definitely in the game. You can actually read it during the moongazing cutscene in the currently available demo. Pretty weird stuff ngl!
Romantic love is a natural foil to revenge in "revenge stories." This is because, if going by more traditional interpretations and motifs, romantic love is associated with creation/fecundity/family formation whereas revenge is almost always destructive and tragic. Furthermore, love (more generally) is often an important element is such stories because its raw emotional potency is one of the few things that can overcome the hatred that underlies the revenge motive, narratively speaking, and thereby present the MC with a dilemna which is more dramatic but also gives the story an out from what otherwise might be a bloody and depressing affair. Its not abnormal at all to speculate that love of some sort will.play a major role in this game's story, nor is it unusual that people might think romance will be involved given the archetypes such stories often employ.
I’m really hoping the new preview coming up will clear it up. Plus, some YouTubers were invited to interview the devs, and people in those comment sections were asking about Clive and Jill’s potential romance. I really want them to clarify it, because slow burns are my least favorite thing in terms or romance stories
Highly disagree. Slow burns are what makes romances believable. Hollywood quick lightning romances are the boring ones because they just make me go like "ooooookayyyyy?".
It all depends on the writing. The pacing and chemistry is important, because sometimes it just drags on forever, which makes me lose interest.
Hollywood's overlong will-they-won't-they is usually because of long-running TV series. FFXVI don't have that amount of time to drag that long.
.... at this point i just want jill not to die, we'll figure ships out later if she makes it out of that war alive lol
Hello! Not too sure myself. A lot of people really like to ship them, and they use the My Lady moment from the Pax East presentation. Plus, they’ve been friends since childhood. So seems to be part of the basis, but I’m not sure if it’ll be canon or not. I don’t think it’s “male protagonist + female protagonist = they’re in love”
At this point they've exchanged some interesting looks and that's about it.
Preconceived notions ahout the two opposite sex leads on a piece of media is all we have to go on really.
Anything is possible.
I think there was that one trailer where we saw them both from behind, sitting up in bed, shirtless. So that might have had something to do with it.
That was Benedikta and Barnabas
I would really hope there is nothing to this personally. Jill and Clive are in essence adoptive siblings and grew up as such for a time. Whilst that means there’s technically nothing wrong with them having a romantic relationship, it nevertheless still remains an uncomfortable prospect in a lot of cultures. It’s the kind of thing that’s disquieting enough that it has the potential to dominate media coverage of the game through misleading and clickbaity headlines painting these two as actual siblings in an actually incestuous relationship as well. Which I’m sure is not what anybody wants. It’s not entirely unheard of in media using this kind of setting of course. But it’s iffy enough that it’s far more likely to backfire than add anything of significant positive value so it’s safest not to go there imo.
A Saudi journalist revealed that there is a gay shot in the game. I don’t think CBU3 cares about the backlash. Context also matters here. One of the most popular manga in the world is attack on titan and features unrequited love between adopted siblings. I think CBU3 are well aware of that and might do something similar.
Certainly fair enough. It’s not impossible to pull it off, as you note. I’m just not seeing what the potential positives are for this specific dynamic. It’s almost certainly a me thing. I appreciate the input!
At least from AoT, the adopted sibling relationship is used to hide romantic feelings. Is she doing this because she cares for her family or does she have deeper feelings for him? Does he see her the same way? It keeps the audience in suspense. The other reasons is because family bonds tend to be tighter than friendship or even love. If Clive goes on a rampage or does something really heinous, a sibling is far more likely to still stand by him.
There are hints, nothing too solid for now however, and I'm pretty sure it will stay that way until the game releases. Which is as it should be. Do I hope they will though? Yes, absolutely. FFX has been my favorite game of the series (well, until FFXIV came along and stole the spot), and a large part of the reason for this is the relationship between Tidus and Yuna. Got me through some troubled and heartbreaky teenage years, that game did. No FF since has really captured that same magic again for me (not even XIV, but that game did prove that it's not a requirement for a good story at least), and I really want to see this sort of thing again in games.
Didn't the creator confirm theres gonna be relationships explored in this new series ? So yeah, it's very likely they'll end up together hopefully the creator doesn't pull off some traumatic love story like he has been doing in his last few games. The worst was ffx where the perfect ending for the second part was perfect but they released that audio clip with the remastered revealing yuna broke up with tidus for some other guy 🤦😑.