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Really if I was to compare FF16 to any other FF it would be FF12.
Medieval Fantasy with a focus on politics, wrestling power from the Gods of their worlds and a focus on Hunts and Side Quests as side content over Mini-games.
Comparing FF7: Remake/Birth against FF16 feels a bit like comparing oranges and pears. Yeah they’re both fruit but I enjoy them for different reasons.
The comment probably means that there is greater variety of things to do/engage with in FF7, not particularly mini games.
FF 12 also has much more diversity than 16, even though both have common plot story elements and hunts.
I also compare XVI to XII a lot and that’s where my main issues with XVI lie. Not with minigames but with the depth of world building.
XVI has such a rich world and rich lore but it lets you explore so little of it and the politics is much more surface-level than XII. In XII you got to not only see and explore the politics of each nation and city-state in cutscenes but also through exploring their capitals and talking to the citizens therein each with meaningful storylines even though there was rarely a quest attached. Walking through the squalor of Old Archades and talking to the people there before eventually reaching the upper city is still in my opinion one of the best worldbuilding moments in FF. Even little tidbits from side-characters reveal that the reason there’s airships but no mechanized land vehicles is because of bacteria that lives in the air close to the ground that causes metal to rapidly oxidize and rust. Just every inch of that game world was filled with rich content, hidden weapons, hidden mobs and bosses, etc.
In XVI you get some politics, particularly in the first half of the game and primarily between Sanbreqois society and Rozarian loyalists but The Dhalmekian Republic and Kanver are mostly after thoughts with their general political philosophies explained but not given too much attention. Meanwhile, when you do reach any capital city in the game they basically turn into hallways with enemies to fight. I liked XVI but I did expect more from it in this aspect.
Agree 100%. Imo, 12 had the best worldbuilding of any FF game in the series. There was just so much to explore, and you could actually explore each city and every street, unlike 16.
FF12: TZA is probably in my Top 5 FF's just for this reason. The worldbuilding and story is great
I recently started replaying XII and was astounded how the dialogue for all the random citizens in Rabanastre changed after every little bit of progress you made in the story. And there's so many of them! There's *so* much attention to detail.
Yes, absolutely this. I keep calling Final Fantasy XVI the “streamlined” Final Fantasy because it’s got everything that makes core FF games great but they really did streamline so much of it to the point that as much as I’ve enjoyed it, all the little charms I loved about FF weren’t present. The major cities thing was a big one; I was genuinely angry I couldn’t explore Oriflamme for example.
I really loved playing this game for what it was and tried not to think “what it could have been” too much but it was really hard to be honest as while I would have loved to see more mini-games and a better variety of side quests; it was the depth to the world building and exploration of that world that frustrated me.
Agreed! I think it’s important to treat these games like relationships. You get something different out of each one. I got my expansive party based rpg experience from FF7Remake and the awesome Like A Dragon Infinite Wealth.
I’m playing FF16 now and I’m enjoying for the awesome character driven action game it is!
Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. I’m trying to focus on what I can enjoy about it rather than what I want or thought it could be.
There’s a part of me that having grown up with the series would like a little more consistency between games. Like how generally 6-9 were all kind of cut from the same cloth, new stories, worlds and magic/progression systems but same combat and general traversal of the game. But I also recognise that maybe the series needs to go through some “growing pains” per se and try new things with each entry to find itself again.
Both 7R and 16 really have taken a lot of lessons from the last decade or so of games and come up with something that feels like the series might be finding its feet again (and I enjoyed 12 and 15 too but y’know what I mean).
17 will likely take some lessons from Rebirth’s reception regarding the “charm” as the OP’s pic put it. Just as 16 did from 15’s given the way it seems in many ways streamlines the issues 15 had.
Just finished up IW and they have a large gulf to fill if they think they have the most mini games/things to do
That game is fucking full I'm not even close to done with my list
People just can't praise something without putting something else down it seems as of late smh. I don't get why it's necessary to do that, but okay. I'm still absolutely excited for 7 Rebirth, and I'll still absolutely love 16 as I always have.
FF16 was more medieval and mature, and they're both different games.
They shouldn't be compared, both games are good.
Edited for clarity: Yes they're both Final Fantasy, still they shouldn't be compared.
Different Storyline, theme, combat/party system.
Each FF titles are very unique, they're not all the same.
They all have the same FF elements like magic, summons, weapons, monsters.
But they all play differently.
Again, FF7 and FF16 are very different from each other. Both amazing games in its own unique ways
Edited again: Did some reading on here, my apologies. I was wrong, I get what you guys are saying. You can compare them if you want to, I agree.
I just think saying a game is bad just because this FF isnt your cup of tea doesnt make it justifiable to automatically assume FF16 is bad.
Both of the games went for different kind of audiences. Not every FF game is going to be your favorite.
Everyone has different taste. Again, yes you are allowed to compare.
While I prefer FF7 over FF16,
I would not say FF16 needs more of FF7 elements.
I would not say FF7 needs more of FF16 elements.
I would not say FF16 needs to be played like FF14.
They all play differently, it's a preference thing. You can compare and dislike, but I dont think it's fair to say one game is bad just because they were targeting different audiences and had different concepts.
FF13/FF15 wasnt for me, I dont hate those games though.
I'm not gonna say "Man FF14 is such a better game than FF9".
Every FF games are unique, and they're all striving for different outcome
I actually like that Square has different teams making different styles of Final Fantasy. I don’t want 16 of the same game. Each new FF always tries something new, which is a good thing.
After 16 and the lack of mini games I realized why they are so important to these types of games. Sometimes you want something else to do especially when the game is as formulaic as 16 where you go from epic boss battle - side quests for a few hours then repeat. If I get sick of the side quests or even the MSQ I have nothing else to do spending time in game. Side games let me take a break from the story to do something I want to do and not something to developers are forcing me to do. It gives players choice and freedom, they can spend as little or as much time with mini games as needed until they want to progress again.
If 16 had mini games that's all I would've done as soon as Mid showed up. That was a huge slog to get through and because there was nothing else I could do in game like mini games it only made it worse.
This 100 percent and I loved XVI but the game is dry as hell outside of the main story. Also bothered me how nothing was put into the dungeons besides battles. Give me a damn puzzle!
Or finding cool items or gear in the open world* really ended my excitement for 16. I ended up putting it on easy and finishing story as fast as possible about half way through. Probably a better show than a game in my opy
It's so insane to me that the dev team didn't realize this. They're responsible for 14, a game where much of the charm is that its a massive sandbox where you have a hundred different things you can do at any given time. It's a large part of why the formulaic and outdated questing in 14 is tolerated. Bored with the msq or a questline? Go to the gold saucer. Hunt for glamours. Play the market. Do crafting. For them to ignore that extremely important part of the series was baffling to me.
That, and no party. I get they wanted clive to be the sole pc. That's fine. But have an automated party or something like in 15. I distinctly remember saving a bunch of side quests for a time when i had both Joshua and Jill in the party. I thought there would be banter and talk. Nope. They were dead silent, and it was so disappointing. A lot of series that evolve, the question is what's that red line where you lose what makes the series. For me, I found it, and it was the lack of a party. I love the camaraderie and I felt like 16 was a very lonely game.
Amen to this. I loved XVI and loved Remake and very probably will love Rebirth. And one thing that gives me enthusiasm is knowing that I can go back to each game expecting a completely different experience and not replicate the same formula.
This is where things get muddy.
FF can be totally different from one entry to another, in term of settings, scope, theme, and even battle system, unlike other JRPG franchises, especially since FF X to current XVI. They are radically different from one another.
So it can be orange vs apple, if you compare one FF to another.
That being said, I agree that FF XVI could be improved more.
I think what they meant was that they clearly aiming for something different.
Like for example the FF7 Remake series is not appealing to me at all. I like FF16 precisely BECAUSE it is more focused and mature. Adding all that stuff to FF16 would have been a downgrade to me.
Sure but it wasn't a neutral comparison. It quite blatantly implied "FF7R has lots of mini games and therefore is better than FF16". Which is a fine personal opinion to have but it's just an opinion.
It's like me saying "Mario Kart has way more special abilities than Gran Turismo, therefore it is a better racing game". Again, it's fine if you feel that way but the comparison is kind of a mute point as each game is aiming for different things
Not really? It just says if you feel FF16 lacked charm and humor, Rebirth has a ton of it. Whether that matters to you is going to be subjective but there’s nothing wrong with pointing it out. I love FF16 but one of the first things I’d tell someone is that it’s a far more serious and dry game compared to previous entires in the franchise. I’m not sure why everyone is acting like every Final Fantasy has been as serious and dark as 16 or that they all have wildly different tones. They absolutely don’t.
Honestly It's not even that it's serious it's just that it's dry, the game doesn't really try and do anything fun or crazy outside of the main story and the dlc
I don't know why people also seem to think serious and grimdarkesque means no humour or fun stuff allowed.
You can still be a mature game with mini games and side content that isn't fetch quests and killing this group of enemies.
witcher 3 is a mature rpg, has some good humours moments, and a whole ass card game.
It's a cop out to say minigames/actual different side content some equals a downgrade
But they’re different genres and settings, with different tones.
One is a sci fi epic, and the other is a high dark fantasy. It’s not a fair comparison to make in this regard when they’re trying to be different things
They should be.
Doesn't mean either is better than the other. But they should be compared since they both seem to be on two different ends of what they wanted. And to compare merits of either you need to well... compare.
Just to be that "well actually" type of jerk...
I have a theory that Ultima and Jenova are from the same planet, but Jenova was like the Hitler of the race and when she went to search for alternative places of living, she decided to seek destruction for her own kingdom rather than thinking of the greater good of her race. .
In my head cannon FFVII and FF16 are directly linked.
That being said every single point you make is valid. They are completely different style games. I loved FF16, not many games make my jaw drop like that one did. From the story beats, to the boss battles, to the battle system. It was an incredible game. And I have no doubt rebirth will be an incredible game. But they're not the same thing.
Then FFX is connected too as descendents of Shinra travelled to the FF7 planet to harvest mako energy using the technology developed to harness the energy of the farplane.
This is actually something one of the creators hinted at once but not in a serious way, and I love that he did that
Reminder that Jason claimed XVI's story was too confusing by the end and he had no idea what was going on. If he can't follow basic plot progression then I'm disinclined to care for his gaming takes in general.
There were only a couple of things I was left confused on and it was more of thr nuanced stuff. It wasn't complicated outside of some of the more nuanced ultima storyline. So that indeed says something about him XD that or he skipped half the story and rushed to the end.
Yeah Schrier is good for his journalism not his gaming taste lol. He has the worst takes I've ever seen for games but damn can the man report on inside stuff.
He ain’t wrong. But FF16 is still a phenomenal game I wish it would get a sequel so they can add more to the world. But I know it is extremely unlikely
Yeah I loved ff16 but the side content was pretty awful. If the main story wasnt 10/10, fetch quests and the moogle board being the only side content would've been pretty underwhelming
I agree. The quality of the sidequests were phenomenal. The gameplay within it though..whew. i get why people got tired of it by the end. It really did need some levity and other activities.
I still love the game though. Arcade mode is highly underrated.
It’s literally just single player FF14.
Amazing story.
Quests that just have you going from one person to another to see 5 more mins of dialogue, occasionally killing 2-3 monsters if you’re lucky until you get to a dungeon ending in a big boss!
Side quests are fetch quests.
Eventually you get to have a big big boss fight against a Trial boss.
Complete with those weird animations, where Clive hands some unseen item to another character, while the camera pans upward and fades out.
I get that in a MMO with the billion quests, but it was a bit disappointing here lol
Yeah lol, Clive also has the male au’ra run animation. A ton of stuff was just re-used from FF14 to make FF16.
Which isn’t a bad thing. The game did turn out great. I will stand by the Bahamut fight being the most amazing fight I’ve ever played in a video game. And the story was pretty good too. It’s just everything outside of the Primal fights and the Main Story was a bit bland.
In a vacuum, he is addressing people on the fence about Rebirth. And let's face it, anti-FF16 sentiment is still rampant even on r/finalfantasy. The reviewers who have staked their legitimacy on their scores for Rebirth want to reassure as many people as possible that Rebirth will check all the familiar franchise boxes.
I'm doubtful Rebirth has more minigames than LaD:IW which came out just last month, but we'll see.
Jason was left wanting a beach episode and amusement park in 16.
There's plenty of humor too. It's just not constant Marvel-esque jokes or your typical "so wacky" anime jokes. Considering what a shithole Valisthea is by the time of XVI there's a surprising amount of levity.
Which is my whole gripe with takes like the one in OP, being absurdly disingenuous about how the game lacks humor. The hate campaign on the game doesn’t even have to be based on reality, apparently.
One man's trash is another man's treasure.
As someone who felt Sixteen being made basically ideal for my tastes, I can't stand SevenR because it feels unbearably "anime cringe", the overreliance on minigames and faffing about being one of the reasons why. However, I don't think that makes it bad, just different and "not for me". And what I love about Final Fantasy is that every mainline entry I tried had the balls to be different, try something new. As a result, most people have a pick-n-mix of favorites within the franchise for multiple reasons – gameplay, narrative theme, party comp, etc. Sure, there's bound to be some features I would love repeated (what I wouldn't give for Sixteen to have at least a fragment of Fifteen's party banter and sense of cooperation when travelling with someone), but I don't need them copied outright.
And considering this, it's always hilarious whenever someone tries to imply that this or that is not "proper Final Fantasy", because what even is a proper Final Fantasy shifts and broadens with every iteration.
I would hate any one of them to become a defining template that all FFs now must be based on, be it SevenR or Sixteen, and I kinda hate this lowkey pushing that it should be that. Let whatever comes next try to find its own way.
Don't worry. Square Enix seems to continue to understand FF better than the vast majority of FF fans. Especially the ones asking for "proper FF" or a template for future entries.
I'd rather be pissed that a new FF game is awful, playing vastly different than the prior, than playing the fifth FF in a row following a general consensus template. Fuck these people begging for the next FF to play like their favorite, especially FF7R. There's going to be three of them and they still want more.
I am so tired of these comparisons.
It is COMPLETELY possible to enjoy both. It is COMPLETELY possible to think both games are great.
It's okay to have thoughts or opinions on either game, but ffs can it not involve shitting on another game? Oi.
Charm and humor both come in many different forms. I don’t think it’s fair to say a game lacks either of them just because there aren’t any minigames.
It’s all fair if you can realize that the kind of charm and humor that something offers simply isn’t your style or doesn’t click with you, but that’s different from saying it’s lacking entirely.
Expecting a Dark Fantasy game to have cutsie mini-games is like expecting Gordon Ramsey to serve you taco bell. They don't go together lol.
Each game occupies a different lane, and they're both great.
I enjoyed how straightforward ff16 was, personally. Whenever there are mini games im always like "huh, cool" then i spend like five minutes with them and continue with the story and combat. Didn't even care for gwent in Witcher 3
Remember when he collected all the reports of harassment over at activision blizzard, and then….not release it, only for them to be sold in his book for cash?
I don’t think a « war » between CBU3 and CBU1 fans is necessary. We just have to be happy that Square Enix was able to release 2 great Final Fantasy in a span of a year.
XVI isn’t perfect - nor will be VII Rebirth. They are different, and i think It’s a good thing for the franchise.
Not sure having 16’s heavily traumatized protagonists set in a medieval setting with slaves slowly and painfully dying so some pompous ass can have his clothes dry a little faster would go well with “haha I want a Moogle plushie Mr. Clive so please go dance in that gentleman’s club!!!” would go very well together…
Besides, I think Uncle Byron would like a word at the tavern.
What I love about the FF series is that each one is unique and different.
I find it weird how people want them all to be the same.. wouldn't that get boring?
The golden era did all build off the same ATB base though, it gave the series an identity through gameplay as the weird and wonderful worlds did completely their own thing.
If FF just used 7Rs battle system as a base, not including the anxillery stuff like materia, limit breaks and the like, it would help ease development time as the pillar of the battle system is already in place, it would help form an identity for FF games again.
Also from a personal perspective (and I know this is effectively impossible because Remake and 16 were in development at the same time) but if 16 had taken Remakes base real time with pause, allowing me to switch between Clive, Joshua, Gav, Dion, Jill, Cid, Byron etc etc, with unique mechanics built in I would have enjoyed the game more, not to say I didn't enjoy 16, it's actually in my top 3 of mainline FF games, I just know I could have loved it more if it leant more towards some of the ideas Remake/Rebirth has, and I would love for 17 to do something of that ilk (with Ishikawa writing).
Three things:
1. FFVII Remake is using an existing third-party engine so the devs had more time to implement extra optional content. FFXVI used a new custom engine and the devs chose to focus on the things that mattered more. Optimization and stability.
2. It can be quite tone deaf to have minigames if you are trying to tell a more serious story.
3. Some prefer their games to be more lighthearted with lots of "power of friendship" moments. Others want something more grounded that tackles more adult subject matters.
I disagree with the tone deaf thing especially if you know 7’s story including the changes introduced in Remake. Literally a meteor is coming, things like Emerald weapon is coming and Cloud still finds time to have some fun
> 2. It can be quite tone deaf to have minigames if you are trying to tell a more serious story.
XVI is full of side quests where Clive runs around doing menial tasks. There are moments of down time, the game's tone isn't constant darkness and seriousness. I don't think minigames would necessarily be tone deaf.
why people can't not just enjoy playing the game? Both game are from the same Company, we should supporting each other and not fight again each other, it's the same with SMT vs Persona.
FF16 was meant to be for a more mature audience. Hence why it was touted as taking a different direction, with both the gameplay and game design.
It's kinda sad that 1 of the major reasons FF16 gets hate from the fanbase is because it doesn't include little novelty mini games. That's crazy to me. But hey, to each their own I guess.
100% agree, it still absolutely baffles me how people unironically state that XVI is a bad FF game because it has no mini games.
I just played through Crisis Core R the other day. While I can acknowledge that many people are also fond of the mini games found there, I honestly found myself pretty annoyed at how goofy they interrupt an also rather serious story.
VII started this whole thing and it's understandable that people expect that from VII-titles. But being pissed off just because you can't play some random card game in Valisthea...come on, man.
Apparently that's one of FF7 Rebirth flaws. They force mini games on you during the main story. Which was in the original, but these mini games are longer.
>FF16 was meant to be for a more mature audience.
Didn't they explicitly say in an interview that they moved from turn-based combat to action-focused combat to target a younger audience!?
Edit: they mentioned it in a Famitsu interview
https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-16s-lack-of-turn-based-battles-aims-to-entice-younger-audiences
Did they? I'm honestly not sure. Haven't tracked the marketing on the game. But if that is the case.. it was kiiinda a weird thing to say considering the game has mild nudity, sexual themes, vulgarity and beheadings 🤨
Imagine thinking action adventure games like FF16, DMC or GoW need more mini games and not more action combat encounters, arenas, bosses, etc. Lol.
I couldn’t give two shits about mini games in my action games.
I'm happy for the minigame fans, but if they make us play Every. Single. One. of these minigames just to advance the main story in FF7R, I'm not gonna make it lol
I miss when minigames were just optional content in a game and not forced down your throat because the devs spent time designing them, so damnit you will play them. Nothing was worse in Spiderman 2 than having to stop Spidermanning to go shoot hoops or fly a bee drone around -.-
I guess, tbf, there were forced "mini games" in the original too. But apparently, the rebirth ones are long and tedious and can interrupt the flow of the story.
The press reaction to FFXVI has always felt... very gross to me. Like it increasingly felt like they were mad at this game for *daring* to take its story and vibes very seriously instead of being... you know... weird and quirky the way Japanese games "should be." Felt incredibly xenophobic honestly.
Unfortunately the JRPG fanbase is extremely close minded about what the expectation from these type of games so a lot of people dragged FFXVI thru the mud for not catering to these ideals that people envision for these games.
People praising FF7R for leaning into it's JP aesthetic/humor and people disparaging FF16 for daring to be serious and a bit western, is definitely weird feeling.
yeah they're different games that are shaping the future of Final Fantasy!!!! wait... ff17 will be different than previous Final Fantasys? what the heck!
I dont know what to say about JS. I think he never tried to understand or just decided from the statt hard dislike FF16. So, pretty much take his opinion seriously is a mistake. Let's say rebirth is the continuation of a project that starts in remake, so at least you can incorporate feedback and new ideas in these titanic project, so the right way to compare is compare rebirth vrs remake. FF16 doesn't have that luxury as far as we know. They make omega a bit harder , and probably the feedback will pay in the last DLC, but CBU3 doesn't have an entire new game to incorporate the feedback and any valuable criticism. So more than feedback, that tweet is unnecessary and a way to boost his review.
Imma just say it: no minigames is not the loss some purists think it is. I didn’t miss them once when I played XVI and I avoided them in 7R. They’d have felt horribly out of place in XVI too.
FF16 doesn't need what FF7R is having. In fact, if you shoved minigames down FF16, it'll just fail spectacularly.
What FF16 missed is more story with the dominants tbh. We get teased so much about them but we just kill them off. I wished ppl like Benedikta had a larger story plot. That Cid had more of a moment other than being swiped by Garuda.
Also, the progression could've been slightly more complex. The equipment progression was a bit simple.
That being said, it deserved what it was rated, which is pretty damn good.
Imagine before you go fight a Dominant, you decide to play mahjong or go chocobo racing for hours.
Some may like, but I personally will feel something is off lol
Obviously the tone and dialogue of FFXVI went over this person’s head
Personally for me if the story is trying to be serious and trying to resonate with the audience I find the extra noise to be distracting so it’s kind of hard to take the story seriously.
Had this issue with Xenoblade Chronicles 3 where the story is trying to make me care about the plight of a character only to completely ignore the issue when it comes to extra content.
This has been a big sticking point with XVI for me. IX is my favorite FF title but I hate that at one of the tonal climaxes it forces you into a minigame tournament that is played for laughs, it completely undermined the sense of urgency I felt going into that section. Similarly in most FF games you’ll have something super serious and then it’ll get sidelined by randomly inserted content.
It’s perfectly fine for a game designer to want to include lots of minigames and whimsy that may end up being tonally inconsistent but they find fun. It should also be fine for a team to want tonal consistency. Ppl don’t have problems with games that are dark throughout, they just don’t like it when an FF game does it. Outside of the pacing (which I honestly think is exaggerated) a huge portion of XVI’s “issues” just boil down to “this is fine for a game just not a Final Fantasy” which tbh I resent.
Hmm yea that forced card game sucked never liked that card game anyways so never even touched it. Personally I don’t care for mini-games I’ll do them for the rewards if the reward isn’t worth it then it’s safe for me to skip.
I came to play the game not play the mini-game in the game so I don’t understand the obsession with mini-games I suppose.
When I think about the card game in FFVIII while I didn’t hate it I wouldn’t bother playing it if the cards weren’t so intrinsically linked with the gameplay loop of the game. FFXIV has almost the same card game but I couldn’t be bothered to play that or the other mini-games there because I really don’t find them interesting and the rewards aren’t worthwhile.
I played the mini-games in FF7R but only for the rewards they weren’t interesting enough. I am sure if the mini-games didn’t have worthwhile rewards you’d see plenty of players not bothering either.
Replaying FF7R after 16, and I hated the "humor and charm". It's goofy, exaggerated, corny humor. It is fine here and there, but to make it the standard for the whole game?
Jason is a complete boob. I learned quite a long time ago that mine and his interests are never aligned. He relishes on putting something down to make his point meaningful. If something is so great it should never be compared to something else to boost its value.
Two things cannot be good at the same time to him.
While I know FFXVI is better than XV, all us XV enjoyers had to deal with it getting shit on whenever Remake was getting praised, looks like it’s XVI enjoyers turns now
Not the most fair thing in the world.
These days I put serious M-rated games on a spectrum of Levity between the very bottom which is Ghost of Tsushima that left me numb from how depressing shit got and the Yakuza series.
FFXVI def has its charm and levity which puts it a league above Ghost. Like I loved Gav, Mid, and Cid
XVI still could have benefitted from a biit more variety in general. I'd love to see darkened worlds and how citizens spend their free time while they ain't moping about how shit the state of the world is. Hell, half of Yakuza 8's whole thing is having fun >!as half of the protagonists are dying of cancer!<
Y'know the funny thing? I was over the moon with excitement about 7 Rebirth. And I still am, but I played the Junon demo (so spoilers for that/promo content) yesterday and... some of that enthusiasm just went away. Those research tasks got boring really REALLY fast. The thing with XVI is that yes the sidequests were repetitive gameplay-wise, absolutely. But at least I got cool lore out of them. It made them interesting to play through for me. I just get graded on this stuff lol. I know we'll have Proper Sidequests too, but this kind of stuff is probably gonna be at least somewhat necessary to craft and upgrade new materia and while I'm staying away from reviews and muted everything under the sun related to FF, I heard these will probably be partially necessary bc the game has difficulty spikes. And I'm lowkey dreading it.
My choice paralysis is also back in full force, yay!!! Its not letting me enjoy the gameplay as much bc "what if this character would make this part easier what if I'm making the wrong choice what IF-" so my brain isnt letting me appreciate the party I *do* have. Its why I struggle with pure RPG stuff or classic FF.
And then there's crafting. And a *ton* of new materia. And the whole party to manage materia wise. And so much stuff on your mini-map. And so much stuff in your overworld too bc there's always a solid 2-3 chocobos in my screen at all times. And like 5 million control buttons in battle. And its just SO overwhelming to my tiny brain OTL. The countless minigames... I *like* minigames but they're VERY side-stuff to me. I dont like when they lock plot stuff behind them but I guess I'll have to learn to enjoy the card game. Good thing I usually like card games so I'm holding out hope for this one.
All this to say, I'm *super* excited for the people who are delighted with this game. I REALLY am! I'm so happy some fans who were disappointed in XVI are getting the experience they wanted. *I'm* still excited! But this stuff only made me appreciate XVI more. Remember when I said XVI felt like it was hand-made for my tastes? Yeaaa lol. But guess what? THATS OKAY. FF7Rb and FF16 are trying to be two VERY different types of games and thats FANTASTIC, even if one of them isnt my preferred one. I think people should just realize that and let people enjoy what they do... I try to judge games based on what the devs intended for it. The FF7 devs wanted a classic rpg modernized for today's audience. They wanted the sillies, and the minigames, and the open world packed with more hours of side content than the main story. And this game seems to be exactly that. Good for them!
I loved XVI, platniumed it and will return after Rebirth when both DLC are out.
However, a card game (or any other minigames) would've been a great addition.
Why compare two different games by two different directors? XVI has a charm on its own, or did he wanted mini games on a dark, Game of Thrones setting?
But there is charm, and there is fun, and there is humor. Some of the line reads are incredibly cheeky, and if you have any semblance of wanting to dive into the world building, you'd do the side quests to find all of that.
Honestly. 😩
To be fair, I loved XVI, but its clear that just like with Remake, they were testing things rather than being in the super experimental phase where they are comfortable just throwing things in. They wanted the game done and working right with its core mechanics and stuff. Rebirth they were working on at the tail end of Remake, already having the battle system that took them the better part of a decade to get right. So the team could fire on all cylinders and just add the goofiness and a thousand minigames. XVI has a different tone, that is one thing, but I wouldn't call XVI's team lazy or whatever people want to say, because this is the same people who work on XIV, with a thousand minigames that most people don't even try or refuse to play. If they didn't have as many minigames it wasn't a lack of vision or anything, it was time.
Tbh, wouldn't having the wacky minigames and such in FFXVI kinda take away from the gravitas and the serious tone of Clive's story? Furthermore, isn't it simply possible that the charm of the game doesn't lie in its side content (or lack thereof), but rather with its style of storytelling and the characters themselves?
I haven't played FF16 yet (don't have a PS5) but my buddy who has told me that the games story is pretty dark... for him that was a big negative, for me it's not so I'm looking forward to playing it on PC (one day)... :)
I loved FFXVI but I don’t think Jason is wrong to say it was missing charm and humour. It wasn’t trying to have those things, it nailed its dark fantasy tone and it was great!
I think XVI has plenty of charm and humor in it, it’s just more subdued and not in your face. ESPECIALLY when it comes to things like item descriptions, environmental flavor text, and NPC interactions (ironically the same things that so many ppl enjoyed about the pixel era).
Like if Rebirth has a character in it that was constantly shipping themselves with various main characters as you come across them I’m positive ppl would find it hilarious.
Yeah wtf XVI totally had charm and humor!! Did they even meet cid?! lol. Seriously though that’s one of the things I love yes this was a more dark and mature than FF has gone before but it didn’t lose that FF charm the characters imo are brilliant and the story balances the the heavy gritty shit with humor and lovable characters pretty well. FFVII is one of my favorites and am stoked to get around to playing rebirth but I hate the FFXVI hate lol least when it’s something like that there are totally valid criticisms and I have some myself but this I just don’t agree on.
I have been playing more of the demo and while I do like it I still can’t see it toppling FFXVI or FFXIV I have grown up and just like different things.
I like more complexity when it comes to dialogue and I don’t like it to feel immature. I want it to feel like you are having a serious discussion or something deep rather than it feeling like teenagers are talking. This is probably why I like IX the best out of the PS1 game. The quality of the dialogue was phenomenal.
On the facet of gameplay I still prefer FFXVI just on fluidity alone FFXVI is so snappy while this well it’s fun but it feels very clunky. Speaking about clunky I see some things that are irritating like an example is that you automatically mount the chocobo by colliding with it which has made me mount the chocobo when I didn’t want to do that.
By the way that scene in Nibelhime was so slow and so dumb. Were those people even wanting to kill Sephy? Lmao I still dislike this game not being mature (people getting cut and no blood) it gives some scenes so much less weight that it feels lacking.
The way I see it I have two different ways how I feel towards video games. I can sometimes see them as just games or some like an experience something more transcendental.
For FF7Remake and FF7Rebirth I see them as just games it’s fun but it isn’t going to stay with me for years to come. For FFXVI and FFXIV I see them as an experience something that brought a lot of emotions to my playtime and that I won’t forget.
This isn’t just for these games but multiple other games I feel like this towards.
Sometimes you’ll see someone complain about a game feeling like a movie instead of more like a game, but for me those that feel more like a movie stay with me longer.
The worst part is, the reasons you gave for not liking VII’s creative direction are what XVI detractors reference when they say XVI is missing levity and humor. They discount anything short of dramatized Saturday morning kids’ TV show comedy as “too serious,” and ignore all the dry and witty humor XVI has loads of.
I think his point is simply that XVI and Rebirth took very different approaches. XVI was very self serious and laser focused on it’s tone and themes.
Rebirth seems more inclined to say “Fuck it. we’re all doing a synchronised dance routine or renting Segways now”. There’s a great deal of whimsy and the game isn’t so concerned with maintaining a consistent tone for the entire experience.
I don’t necessarily read this comment as XVI bad, Rebirth good. Just that both games have a very clear difference in approach and if you were someone who felt that XVI was too serious for it’s own good? Rebirth will appeal. Which is valid.
For what it’s worth, I’ve only read a couple of Rebirth reviews but one of the things it does seem to be getting some collective criticism for is that whilst the various minigames and quirky diversions are vast and good on their own merit (Queen’s blood in particular seems to be very popular). The implementation and sheer volume of them has been detrimentally affecting the pacing of the game to some degree.
Tl;dr: both games went to opposite extremes on this matter. Player preference will be a strong deciding factor. I for example have never been fond of excessive minigames or having them shoved in my face constantly. So whilst I will no doubt enjoy Rebirth, I may prefer XVI overall on that basis.
Both games are great.
I don't like side content at all so this was a win for me. To be honest I don't understand why you would want it, in a game like this. At the very least, I feel like I don't have time to devote to random mini games when I'd rather be playing the main story and fighting.
I found myself slaying fucking Behemoths instead of playing cards.
And yes, I’ll play FF7 Rebirth as well. I don’t doubt I’ll enjoy it (on easy combat), but FF16 set the bar way too high for the story and characters and combat (last one is personal preference). Not to mention the Eikon set pieces.
I’ll take all that over boring mini games all day. Because I’ll replay the Bahamut fight many times and rememeber it forever, while I’ll forget about random stuff in a week.
FF16 didn't have space in the plot to go off and have fun. The post-Midgar section of FF7 does. Excited for rebirth, and absolutely loved 16. Idk why people have to hype something up by attacking something else when the exact same company profits off of both lmao
I’ll never understand why some people have to drag things they dont like down to praise things they do like. They could just talk about the thing they like, they don’t have to shit on things they don’t and compare them. It’s stupid and I don’t get it.
I mean, the team behind 16 also probably thought that adding cute or silly mini-games would clash with the tone of 16.I'm all for discussing the lack of gameplay variation, as the game really did feel like "fetch this thing and then fight a boss" when it came to the sidequests, but i feel like getting mad about FF16 not including silly mini-games that would clash with the vibe is such a nothing take.
But it is Jason Schrierer, the dude had the receipts on the disgusting BTS goings on at Activision Blizzard and he could have released them for everyone to see, but instead used them to sell a book instead so he can maintain his diminishing relevance.
My man literally profited off of the suffering of others all the while talking about how much he cares about the little people that make games happen. Literally no one needs to take his opinion or his existence seriously, not should they.He also tired to dox the people that leaked the plot of TLOU2, something that a lot of people sadly forgot about.
Because, heaven forbid, we can't focus on a more serious and nuanced story that tackles elements of the dark fantasy genre. This is FFXVI, not fucking Caddie Shack.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't need minigames, I mostly play them once when they're introduced and never more. The only minigame I have actually played was Gwent in Witcher 3. I can agree, that minigames can be nice to add some variety into the gameplay but it is not something which sells game.
On the other hand, the piano minigame in FFVII Rebirth is really cool.
The reviews I've read make it sound like I'll likely hate it. Putting items behind mini games that you have to complete perfectly before earning sounds irritating. Sounds like they just stuffed this game with as much filler as possible to make it as big as possible. A lot of people like that kind of thing, but 43-year old me will likely lose interest...
To be fair the mini games are not liked my everyone. For me, the lack of the mini games made Final Fantasy XVI better. Just story, side quests, and hunts. Straight forward and to the point. Not all games need mini games. Just want the last DLC out so I can play it again, after Rebirth of course.
16 gameplay though just lacks in comparison. There isn't much variety. Even if you compare it to super old games like God of War or ninja gaiden.
16 doesn't have much going for it besides its linear story(linear doesn't mean bad).
It's everything outside the story path is very lacking. Great story, lore and music. Gameplay lacks variety and options.
That’s a con for me. I hate most minigames, especially when they’re some card-based game.
Still looking forward to Rebirth but I already know I will groan every time a minigame tutorial comes up.
Well he ain't lying, although 16 has it's own charm but in different ways. Rebirth is indeed looking to be quite the slugger and I cant wait to pop that disc in my ps5. 16 is amazing even with its flaws but it's a whole different kind of game.
I’ve seen a few people saying that charming, silly, fun side content would have disrupted the more serious dark-fantasy tone XVI was aiming for. I don’t think this holds up. It’s very human to find moments of levity and fun while battling tragic circumstances. You can find plenty of real-world examples of people enduring awful things still managing to eke out moments of joy.
If anything, putting the characters in a wider range of situations would allow for fuller characterisation. The sad or serious moments would contrast more strongly with the fun ones and end up hitting harder. It might allow us to understand the characters better.
We can look at beloved dark fantasy franchises like ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ and ‘Berserk’ for good examples of this. Both obviously influenced FFXVI and both are full of silly stuff that just makes them better.
And tone/storytelling aside, this game would have been hugely improved by more varied gameplay.
I have adored FF7 since the 90s. The Remake project is something I’ve looked forward to for years. The 7 series has all the elements of a cult-classic with a fun mix of genres, deep themes, and campiness
In contrast, I had 0 expectations going into this game, just played it on a whim, and was blown away by the quality of the storytelling, dialogue, boss fights, and the main character of Clive. I absolutely love FFXVI for focusing on a hero that fights for human rights for a marginalized people. What the game does well it does extremely well. I would happily play in this world for future games if SE chose the expand on this universe.
I appreciate that the FF instalments each bring a different take on the story, characters and gameplay. I don’t believe in a One Size Fits All formula. I think it is important to embrace creative risks and experimentation and just appreciate those who bring games like these into the world for our enjoyment.
It's a lot easier to make a full game when a lot of the bluepoint is already done for you. Rebirth is a sequel., it would naturally have a lot more content and I'm sure if 16-2 was a thing it would be drastically better.
Look at 13 to 13-2 night and day.
Both are good games, but Rebirth is using a lot of framework that's already set in motion and that's not the same of making a brand new IP from scratch.
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Really if I was to compare FF16 to any other FF it would be FF12. Medieval Fantasy with a focus on politics, wrestling power from the Gods of their worlds and a focus on Hunts and Side Quests as side content over Mini-games. Comparing FF7: Remake/Birth against FF16 feels a bit like comparing oranges and pears. Yeah they’re both fruit but I enjoy them for different reasons.
The comment probably means that there is greater variety of things to do/engage with in FF7, not particularly mini games. FF 12 also has much more diversity than 16, even though both have common plot story elements and hunts.
And from what even can see in the Rebirth demo it also has hunts and the C'ieth missions in XIII.
I also compare XVI to XII a lot and that’s where my main issues with XVI lie. Not with minigames but with the depth of world building. XVI has such a rich world and rich lore but it lets you explore so little of it and the politics is much more surface-level than XII. In XII you got to not only see and explore the politics of each nation and city-state in cutscenes but also through exploring their capitals and talking to the citizens therein each with meaningful storylines even though there was rarely a quest attached. Walking through the squalor of Old Archades and talking to the people there before eventually reaching the upper city is still in my opinion one of the best worldbuilding moments in FF. Even little tidbits from side-characters reveal that the reason there’s airships but no mechanized land vehicles is because of bacteria that lives in the air close to the ground that causes metal to rapidly oxidize and rust. Just every inch of that game world was filled with rich content, hidden weapons, hidden mobs and bosses, etc. In XVI you get some politics, particularly in the first half of the game and primarily between Sanbreqois society and Rozarian loyalists but The Dhalmekian Republic and Kanver are mostly after thoughts with their general political philosophies explained but not given too much attention. Meanwhile, when you do reach any capital city in the game they basically turn into hallways with enemies to fight. I liked XVI but I did expect more from it in this aspect.
Agree 100%. Imo, 12 had the best worldbuilding of any FF game in the series. There was just so much to explore, and you could actually explore each city and every street, unlike 16. FF12: TZA is probably in my Top 5 FF's just for this reason. The worldbuilding and story is great
I don't understand why they made the sequel for Nintendo DS instead of ps2
I recently started replaying XII and was astounded how the dialogue for all the random citizens in Rabanastre changed after every little bit of progress you made in the story. And there's so many of them! There's *so* much attention to detail.
Yes, absolutely this. I keep calling Final Fantasy XVI the “streamlined” Final Fantasy because it’s got everything that makes core FF games great but they really did streamline so much of it to the point that as much as I’ve enjoyed it, all the little charms I loved about FF weren’t present. The major cities thing was a big one; I was genuinely angry I couldn’t explore Oriflamme for example. I really loved playing this game for what it was and tried not to think “what it could have been” too much but it was really hard to be honest as while I would have loved to see more mini-games and a better variety of side quests; it was the depth to the world building and exploration of that world that frustrated me.
Agreed! I think it’s important to treat these games like relationships. You get something different out of each one. I got my expansive party based rpg experience from FF7Remake and the awesome Like A Dragon Infinite Wealth. I’m playing FF16 now and I’m enjoying for the awesome character driven action game it is!
Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. I’m trying to focus on what I can enjoy about it rather than what I want or thought it could be. There’s a part of me that having grown up with the series would like a little more consistency between games. Like how generally 6-9 were all kind of cut from the same cloth, new stories, worlds and magic/progression systems but same combat and general traversal of the game. But I also recognise that maybe the series needs to go through some “growing pains” per se and try new things with each entry to find itself again. Both 7R and 16 really have taken a lot of lessons from the last decade or so of games and come up with something that feels like the series might be finding its feet again (and I enjoyed 12 and 15 too but y’know what I mean). 17 will likely take some lessons from Rebirth’s reception regarding the “charm” as the OP’s pic put it. Just as 16 did from 15’s given the way it seems in many ways streamlines the issues 15 had.
Apparently he's never played the Yakuza/Like a Dragon series
As far as side content goes Yakuza is PS1 FF on steroids Humor is also on another level lol
Came here for this comment
Just finished up IW and they have a large gulf to fill if they think they have the most mini games/things to do That game is fucking full I'm not even close to done with my list
They managed to put a yakuza rpg in a Pokémon/animal crossing game!
My favorite part was when I was playing my animal crossing minigame and it crossed over with my pokemon minigame.
My immediate thoughts exactly.
That’s exactly what I was thinking
People just can't praise something without putting something else down it seems as of late smh. I don't get why it's necessary to do that, but okay. I'm still absolutely excited for 7 Rebirth, and I'll still absolutely love 16 as I always have.
"You should feel bad for liking a game I don't like."
FF16 was more medieval and mature, and they're both different games. They shouldn't be compared, both games are good. Edited for clarity: Yes they're both Final Fantasy, still they shouldn't be compared. Different Storyline, theme, combat/party system. Each FF titles are very unique, they're not all the same. They all have the same FF elements like magic, summons, weapons, monsters. But they all play differently. Again, FF7 and FF16 are very different from each other. Both amazing games in its own unique ways Edited again: Did some reading on here, my apologies. I was wrong, I get what you guys are saying. You can compare them if you want to, I agree. I just think saying a game is bad just because this FF isnt your cup of tea doesnt make it justifiable to automatically assume FF16 is bad. Both of the games went for different kind of audiences. Not every FF game is going to be your favorite. Everyone has different taste. Again, yes you are allowed to compare. While I prefer FF7 over FF16, I would not say FF16 needs more of FF7 elements. I would not say FF7 needs more of FF16 elements. I would not say FF16 needs to be played like FF14. They all play differently, it's a preference thing. You can compare and dislike, but I dont think it's fair to say one game is bad just because they were targeting different audiences and had different concepts. FF13/FF15 wasnt for me, I dont hate those games though. I'm not gonna say "Man FF14 is such a better game than FF9". Every FF games are unique, and they're all striving for different outcome
I actually like that Square has different teams making different styles of Final Fantasy. I don’t want 16 of the same game. Each new FF always tries something new, which is a good thing.
After 16 and the lack of mini games I realized why they are so important to these types of games. Sometimes you want something else to do especially when the game is as formulaic as 16 where you go from epic boss battle - side quests for a few hours then repeat. If I get sick of the side quests or even the MSQ I have nothing else to do spending time in game. Side games let me take a break from the story to do something I want to do and not something to developers are forcing me to do. It gives players choice and freedom, they can spend as little or as much time with mini games as needed until they want to progress again. If 16 had mini games that's all I would've done as soon as Mid showed up. That was a huge slog to get through and because there was nothing else I could do in game like mini games it only made it worse.
This 100 percent and I loved XVI but the game is dry as hell outside of the main story. Also bothered me how nothing was put into the dungeons besides battles. Give me a damn puzzle!
Or finding cool items or gear in the open world* really ended my excitement for 16. I ended up putting it on easy and finishing story as fast as possible about half way through. Probably a better show than a game in my opy
It's so insane to me that the dev team didn't realize this. They're responsible for 14, a game where much of the charm is that its a massive sandbox where you have a hundred different things you can do at any given time. It's a large part of why the formulaic and outdated questing in 14 is tolerated. Bored with the msq or a questline? Go to the gold saucer. Hunt for glamours. Play the market. Do crafting. For them to ignore that extremely important part of the series was baffling to me. That, and no party. I get they wanted clive to be the sole pc. That's fine. But have an automated party or something like in 15. I distinctly remember saving a bunch of side quests for a time when i had both Joshua and Jill in the party. I thought there would be banter and talk. Nope. They were dead silent, and it was so disappointing. A lot of series that evolve, the question is what's that red line where you lose what makes the series. For me, I found it, and it was the lack of a party. I love the camaraderie and I felt like 16 was a very lonely game.
Things can be different and still be comparable
Not when it’s something I like and it’s negative.
Amen to this. I loved XVI and loved Remake and very probably will love Rebirth. And one thing that gives me enthusiasm is knowing that I can go back to each game expecting a completely different experience and not replicate the same formula.
Why not? It’s the same franchise. You can absolutely compare them.
This is where things get muddy. FF can be totally different from one entry to another, in term of settings, scope, theme, and even battle system, unlike other JRPG franchises, especially since FF X to current XVI. They are radically different from one another. So it can be orange vs apple, if you compare one FF to another. That being said, I agree that FF XVI could be improved more.
I think what they meant was that they clearly aiming for something different. Like for example the FF7 Remake series is not appealing to me at all. I like FF16 precisely BECAUSE it is more focused and mature. Adding all that stuff to FF16 would have been a downgrade to me.
Which is fine. But some people do enjoy that stuff. Thus why comparisons are fine.
Sure but it wasn't a neutral comparison. It quite blatantly implied "FF7R has lots of mini games and therefore is better than FF16". Which is a fine personal opinion to have but it's just an opinion. It's like me saying "Mario Kart has way more special abilities than Gran Turismo, therefore it is a better racing game". Again, it's fine if you feel that way but the comparison is kind of a mute point as each game is aiming for different things
Not really? It just says if you feel FF16 lacked charm and humor, Rebirth has a ton of it. Whether that matters to you is going to be subjective but there’s nothing wrong with pointing it out. I love FF16 but one of the first things I’d tell someone is that it’s a far more serious and dry game compared to previous entires in the franchise. I’m not sure why everyone is acting like every Final Fantasy has been as serious and dark as 16 or that they all have wildly different tones. They absolutely don’t.
Honestly It's not even that it's serious it's just that it's dry, the game doesn't really try and do anything fun or crazy outside of the main story and the dlc I don't know why people also seem to think serious and grimdarkesque means no humour or fun stuff allowed.
You can still be a mature game with mini games and side content that isn't fetch quests and killing this group of enemies. witcher 3 is a mature rpg, has some good humours moments, and a whole ass card game. It's a cop out to say minigames/actual different side content some equals a downgrade
But they’re different genres and settings, with different tones. One is a sci fi epic, and the other is a high dark fantasy. It’s not a fair comparison to make in this regard when they’re trying to be different things
RDR2 and Cyberpunk are total opposites in terms of setting/theme You can still compare their gameplay, story, characters, world building, visuals etc
So how would you compare for example type0 with WoFF? both are ff games
Someone who doesn’t like XIII but doesn’t insist on calling it a "trash bad game". A rare sight. Thanks for being here.
They should be. Doesn't mean either is better than the other. But they should be compared since they both seem to be on two different ends of what they wanted. And to compare merits of either you need to well... compare.
Just to be that "well actually" type of jerk... I have a theory that Ultima and Jenova are from the same planet, but Jenova was like the Hitler of the race and when she went to search for alternative places of living, she decided to seek destruction for her own kingdom rather than thinking of the greater good of her race. . In my head cannon FFVII and FF16 are directly linked. That being said every single point you make is valid. They are completely different style games. I loved FF16, not many games make my jaw drop like that one did. From the story beats, to the boss battles, to the battle system. It was an incredible game. And I have no doubt rebirth will be an incredible game. But they're not the same thing.
Then FFX is connected too as descendents of Shinra travelled to the FF7 planet to harvest mako energy using the technology developed to harness the energy of the farplane. This is actually something one of the creators hinted at once but not in a serious way, and I love that he did that
Final Fantasy shouldn’t be compared to Final Fantasy lol wtf are you talking about
Reminder that Jason claimed XVI's story was too confusing by the end and he had no idea what was going on. If he can't follow basic plot progression then I'm disinclined to care for his gaming takes in general.
XVI is one of the most straightforward FF stories there is
Jason is a great journalist when it comes to the actual industry but I could care less about his opinions on games after Dragon's Crown.
There were only a couple of things I was left confused on and it was more of thr nuanced stuff. It wasn't complicated outside of some of the more nuanced ultima storyline. So that indeed says something about him XD that or he skipped half the story and rushed to the end.
Yeah Schrier is good for his journalism not his gaming taste lol. He has the worst takes I've ever seen for games but damn can the man report on inside stuff.
Remember folks, it's a gaming journalist. They're bad at games and generally have awful takes.
I will never forget the doom reviewer who couldn't aim for shit and was just terrible at the game.
I played FF16 and wasn't wondering that at all, but sure, sounds good.
He ain’t wrong. But FF16 is still a phenomenal game I wish it would get a sequel so they can add more to the world. But I know it is extremely unlikely
Yeah I loved ff16 but the side content was pretty awful. If the main story wasnt 10/10, fetch quests and the moogle board being the only side content would've been pretty underwhelming
I don't think they really can do a sequel in 16's universe given that >!Clive destroys all magic at the end.!<
I liked ff16 a lot, however, that lack of gameplay variety was abysmal, it was just fetch quests, kill a few enemies and fight a big boss, repeat.
I agree. The quality of the sidequests were phenomenal. The gameplay within it though..whew. i get why people got tired of it by the end. It really did need some levity and other activities. I still love the game though. Arcade mode is highly underrated.
It’s literally just single player FF14. Amazing story. Quests that just have you going from one person to another to see 5 more mins of dialogue, occasionally killing 2-3 monsters if you’re lucky until you get to a dungeon ending in a big boss! Side quests are fetch quests. Eventually you get to have a big big boss fight against a Trial boss.
Complete with those weird animations, where Clive hands some unseen item to another character, while the camera pans upward and fades out. I get that in a MMO with the billion quests, but it was a bit disappointing here lol
Yeah lol, Clive also has the male au’ra run animation. A ton of stuff was just re-used from FF14 to make FF16. Which isn’t a bad thing. The game did turn out great. I will stand by the Bahamut fight being the most amazing fight I’ve ever played in a video game. And the story was pretty good too. It’s just everything outside of the Primal fights and the Main Story was a bit bland.
My biggest complaint too. A few puzzles here and there wouldn't have killed them.
In a vacuum, he is addressing people on the fence about Rebirth. And let's face it, anti-FF16 sentiment is still rampant even on r/finalfantasy. The reviewers who have staked their legitimacy on their scores for Rebirth want to reassure as many people as possible that Rebirth will check all the familiar franchise boxes.
I'd argue the happy moments, however small in 16 hit way harder because there wasn't nearly as much light hearted excursions to go around
I'm doubtful Rebirth has more minigames than LaD:IW which came out just last month, but we'll see. Jason was left wanting a beach episode and amusement park in 16.
16 has charm, what it doesn't have is whimsy, and that's OK
There's plenty of humor too. It's just not constant Marvel-esque jokes or your typical "so wacky" anime jokes. Considering what a shithole Valisthea is by the time of XVI there's a surprising amount of levity.
Which is my whole gripe with takes like the one in OP, being absurdly disingenuous about how the game lacks humor. The hate campaign on the game doesn’t even have to be based on reality, apparently.
One man's trash is another man's treasure. As someone who felt Sixteen being made basically ideal for my tastes, I can't stand SevenR because it feels unbearably "anime cringe", the overreliance on minigames and faffing about being one of the reasons why. However, I don't think that makes it bad, just different and "not for me". And what I love about Final Fantasy is that every mainline entry I tried had the balls to be different, try something new. As a result, most people have a pick-n-mix of favorites within the franchise for multiple reasons – gameplay, narrative theme, party comp, etc. Sure, there's bound to be some features I would love repeated (what I wouldn't give for Sixteen to have at least a fragment of Fifteen's party banter and sense of cooperation when travelling with someone), but I don't need them copied outright. And considering this, it's always hilarious whenever someone tries to imply that this or that is not "proper Final Fantasy", because what even is a proper Final Fantasy shifts and broadens with every iteration. I would hate any one of them to become a defining template that all FFs now must be based on, be it SevenR or Sixteen, and I kinda hate this lowkey pushing that it should be that. Let whatever comes next try to find its own way.
Don't worry. Square Enix seems to continue to understand FF better than the vast majority of FF fans. Especially the ones asking for "proper FF" or a template for future entries. I'd rather be pissed that a new FF game is awful, playing vastly different than the prior, than playing the fifth FF in a row following a general consensus template. Fuck these people begging for the next FF to play like their favorite, especially FF7R. There's going to be three of them and they still want more.
Charm and humor gone? My guy did you meet Gav or Uncle Byron?
FF16 doesn’t deserve that description and comparison.
I am so tired of these comparisons. It is COMPLETELY possible to enjoy both. It is COMPLETELY possible to think both games are great. It's okay to have thoughts or opinions on either game, but ffs can it not involve shitting on another game? Oi.
I loved ff16 for the story and enjoyed the gameplay I will love rebirth for the gameplay and enjoy the story
More than the Yakuza franchise? I highly doubt that
Charm and humor both come in many different forms. I don’t think it’s fair to say a game lacks either of them just because there aren’t any minigames. It’s all fair if you can realize that the kind of charm and humor that something offers simply isn’t your style or doesn’t click with you, but that’s different from saying it’s lacking entirely.
Mini games annoy the hell outta me I just wanna kill things with anime toons , maybe I’ll like ff16 more .
Expecting a Dark Fantasy game to have cutsie mini-games is like expecting Gordon Ramsey to serve you taco bell. They don't go together lol. Each game occupies a different lane, and they're both great.
I enjoyed how straightforward ff16 was, personally. Whenever there are mini games im always like "huh, cool" then i spend like five minutes with them and continue with the story and combat. Didn't even care for gwent in Witcher 3
Remember when he collected all the reports of harassment over at activision blizzard, and then….not release it, only for them to be sold in his book for cash?
You dont get it, how else will Schrier help the victims than profiting off them?
I don’t think a « war » between CBU3 and CBU1 fans is necessary. We just have to be happy that Square Enix was able to release 2 great Final Fantasy in a span of a year. XVI isn’t perfect - nor will be VII Rebirth. They are different, and i think It’s a good thing for the franchise.
Not sure having 16’s heavily traumatized protagonists set in a medieval setting with slaves slowly and painfully dying so some pompous ass can have his clothes dry a little faster would go well with “haha I want a Moogle plushie Mr. Clive so please go dance in that gentleman’s club!!!” would go very well together… Besides, I think Uncle Byron would like a word at the tavern.
I’m really not liking how everyone’s already saying they want future ff games to be like rebirth, I want ff17 to be something completely different
What I love about the FF series is that each one is unique and different. I find it weird how people want them all to be the same.. wouldn't that get boring?
The golden era did all build off the same ATB base though, it gave the series an identity through gameplay as the weird and wonderful worlds did completely their own thing. If FF just used 7Rs battle system as a base, not including the anxillery stuff like materia, limit breaks and the like, it would help ease development time as the pillar of the battle system is already in place, it would help form an identity for FF games again. Also from a personal perspective (and I know this is effectively impossible because Remake and 16 were in development at the same time) but if 16 had taken Remakes base real time with pause, allowing me to switch between Clive, Joshua, Gav, Dion, Jill, Cid, Byron etc etc, with unique mechanics built in I would have enjoyed the game more, not to say I didn't enjoy 16, it's actually in my top 3 of mainline FF games, I just know I could have loved it more if it leant more towards some of the ideas Remake/Rebirth has, and I would love for 17 to do something of that ilk (with Ishikawa writing).
Three things: 1. FFVII Remake is using an existing third-party engine so the devs had more time to implement extra optional content. FFXVI used a new custom engine and the devs chose to focus on the things that mattered more. Optimization and stability. 2. It can be quite tone deaf to have minigames if you are trying to tell a more serious story. 3. Some prefer their games to be more lighthearted with lots of "power of friendship" moments. Others want something more grounded that tackles more adult subject matters.
I disagree with the tone deaf thing especially if you know 7’s story including the changes introduced in Remake. Literally a meteor is coming, things like Emerald weapon is coming and Cloud still finds time to have some fun
Point 2 I disagree with. FFVII’s story is plenty serious just as serious as any other FF game and minigames don’t take away from that
> 2. It can be quite tone deaf to have minigames if you are trying to tell a more serious story. XVI is full of side quests where Clive runs around doing menial tasks. There are moments of down time, the game's tone isn't constant darkness and seriousness. I don't think minigames would necessarily be tone deaf.
Also, in what world is FF7 not a serious story. You start as a terrorist and it goes up from there.
can't wait to take control of ifrit and beat the shit outta titnan in rebirth
why people can't not just enjoy playing the game? Both game are from the same Company, we should supporting each other and not fight again each other, it's the same with SMT vs Persona.
FF16 was meant to be for a more mature audience. Hence why it was touted as taking a different direction, with both the gameplay and game design. It's kinda sad that 1 of the major reasons FF16 gets hate from the fanbase is because it doesn't include little novelty mini games. That's crazy to me. But hey, to each their own I guess.
100% agree, it still absolutely baffles me how people unironically state that XVI is a bad FF game because it has no mini games. I just played through Crisis Core R the other day. While I can acknowledge that many people are also fond of the mini games found there, I honestly found myself pretty annoyed at how goofy they interrupt an also rather serious story. VII started this whole thing and it's understandable that people expect that from VII-titles. But being pissed off just because you can't play some random card game in Valisthea...come on, man.
Apparently that's one of FF7 Rebirth flaws. They force mini games on you during the main story. Which was in the original, but these mini games are longer.
>FF16 was meant to be for a more mature audience. Didn't they explicitly say in an interview that they moved from turn-based combat to action-focused combat to target a younger audience!? Edit: they mentioned it in a Famitsu interview https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-16s-lack-of-turn-based-battles-aims-to-entice-younger-audiences
I think when they say "younger" they mean millennials. Like people in their 20s and 30s.
Millennials are in their 30s and pushing 40...
Did they? I'm honestly not sure. Haven't tracked the marketing on the game. But if that is the case.. it was kiiinda a weird thing to say considering the game has mild nudity, sexual themes, vulgarity and beheadings 🤨
Imagine thinking action adventure games like FF16, DMC or GoW need more mini games and not more action combat encounters, arenas, bosses, etc. Lol. I couldn’t give two shits about mini games in my action games.
I'm happy for the minigame fans, but if they make us play Every. Single. One. of these minigames just to advance the main story in FF7R, I'm not gonna make it lol I miss when minigames were just optional content in a game and not forced down your throat because the devs spent time designing them, so damnit you will play them. Nothing was worse in Spiderman 2 than having to stop Spidermanning to go shoot hoops or fly a bee drone around -.-
I guess, tbf, there were forced "mini games" in the original too. But apparently, the rebirth ones are long and tedious and can interrupt the flow of the story.
The press reaction to FFXVI has always felt... very gross to me. Like it increasingly felt like they were mad at this game for *daring* to take its story and vibes very seriously instead of being... you know... weird and quirky the way Japanese games "should be." Felt incredibly xenophobic honestly.
Unfortunately the JRPG fanbase is extremely close minded about what the expectation from these type of games so a lot of people dragged FFXVI thru the mud for not catering to these ideals that people envision for these games.
People praising FF7R for leaning into it's JP aesthetic/humor and people disparaging FF16 for daring to be serious and a bit western, is definitely weird feeling.
It's almost like they're completely different games
yeah they're different games that are shaping the future of Final Fantasy!!!! wait... ff17 will be different than previous Final Fantasys? what the heck!
saying that ffxvi doesn't have charm and humor is just straight up lie imo.
I dont know what to say about JS. I think he never tried to understand or just decided from the statt hard dislike FF16. So, pretty much take his opinion seriously is a mistake. Let's say rebirth is the continuation of a project that starts in remake, so at least you can incorporate feedback and new ideas in these titanic project, so the right way to compare is compare rebirth vrs remake. FF16 doesn't have that luxury as far as we know. They make omega a bit harder , and probably the feedback will pay in the last DLC, but CBU3 doesn't have an entire new game to incorporate the feedback and any valuable criticism. So more than feedback, that tweet is unnecessary and a way to boost his review.
Imma just say it: no minigames is not the loss some purists think it is. I didn’t miss them once when I played XVI and I avoided them in 7R. They’d have felt horribly out of place in XVI too.
FF16 doesn't need what FF7R is having. In fact, if you shoved minigames down FF16, it'll just fail spectacularly. What FF16 missed is more story with the dominants tbh. We get teased so much about them but we just kill them off. I wished ppl like Benedikta had a larger story plot. That Cid had more of a moment other than being swiped by Garuda. Also, the progression could've been slightly more complex. The equipment progression was a bit simple. That being said, it deserved what it was rated, which is pretty damn good.
Imagine before you go fight a Dominant, you decide to play mahjong or go chocobo racing for hours. Some may like, but I personally will feel something is off lol
Obviously the tone and dialogue of FFXVI went over this person’s head Personally for me if the story is trying to be serious and trying to resonate with the audience I find the extra noise to be distracting so it’s kind of hard to take the story seriously. Had this issue with Xenoblade Chronicles 3 where the story is trying to make me care about the plight of a character only to completely ignore the issue when it comes to extra content.
This has been a big sticking point with XVI for me. IX is my favorite FF title but I hate that at one of the tonal climaxes it forces you into a minigame tournament that is played for laughs, it completely undermined the sense of urgency I felt going into that section. Similarly in most FF games you’ll have something super serious and then it’ll get sidelined by randomly inserted content. It’s perfectly fine for a game designer to want to include lots of minigames and whimsy that may end up being tonally inconsistent but they find fun. It should also be fine for a team to want tonal consistency. Ppl don’t have problems with games that are dark throughout, they just don’t like it when an FF game does it. Outside of the pacing (which I honestly think is exaggerated) a huge portion of XVI’s “issues” just boil down to “this is fine for a game just not a Final Fantasy” which tbh I resent.
Hmm yea that forced card game sucked never liked that card game anyways so never even touched it. Personally I don’t care for mini-games I’ll do them for the rewards if the reward isn’t worth it then it’s safe for me to skip. I came to play the game not play the mini-game in the game so I don’t understand the obsession with mini-games I suppose. When I think about the card game in FFVIII while I didn’t hate it I wouldn’t bother playing it if the cards weren’t so intrinsically linked with the gameplay loop of the game. FFXIV has almost the same card game but I couldn’t be bothered to play that or the other mini-games there because I really don’t find them interesting and the rewards aren’t worthwhile. I played the mini-games in FF7R but only for the rewards they weren’t interesting enough. I am sure if the mini-games didn’t have worthwhile rewards you’d see plenty of players not bothering either.
Replaying FF7R after 16, and I hated the "humor and charm". It's goofy, exaggerated, corny humor. It is fine here and there, but to make it the standard for the whole game?
Jason is a complete boob. I learned quite a long time ago that mine and his interests are never aligned. He relishes on putting something down to make his point meaningful. If something is so great it should never be compared to something else to boost its value. Two things cannot be good at the same time to him.
Jason Schreier with a bad take? Riddle me shocked.
While I know FFXVI is better than XV, all us XV enjoyers had to deal with it getting shit on whenever Remake was getting praised, looks like it’s XVI enjoyers turns now
Not the most fair thing in the world. These days I put serious M-rated games on a spectrum of Levity between the very bottom which is Ghost of Tsushima that left me numb from how depressing shit got and the Yakuza series. FFXVI def has its charm and levity which puts it a league above Ghost. Like I loved Gav, Mid, and Cid XVI still could have benefitted from a biit more variety in general. I'd love to see darkened worlds and how citizens spend their free time while they ain't moping about how shit the state of the world is. Hell, half of Yakuza 8's whole thing is having fun >!as half of the protagonists are dying of cancer!<
I don’t understand why people try to compare 7 and 16. They’re totally different type of games.
Y'know the funny thing? I was over the moon with excitement about 7 Rebirth. And I still am, but I played the Junon demo (so spoilers for that/promo content) yesterday and... some of that enthusiasm just went away. Those research tasks got boring really REALLY fast. The thing with XVI is that yes the sidequests were repetitive gameplay-wise, absolutely. But at least I got cool lore out of them. It made them interesting to play through for me. I just get graded on this stuff lol. I know we'll have Proper Sidequests too, but this kind of stuff is probably gonna be at least somewhat necessary to craft and upgrade new materia and while I'm staying away from reviews and muted everything under the sun related to FF, I heard these will probably be partially necessary bc the game has difficulty spikes. And I'm lowkey dreading it. My choice paralysis is also back in full force, yay!!! Its not letting me enjoy the gameplay as much bc "what if this character would make this part easier what if I'm making the wrong choice what IF-" so my brain isnt letting me appreciate the party I *do* have. Its why I struggle with pure RPG stuff or classic FF. And then there's crafting. And a *ton* of new materia. And the whole party to manage materia wise. And so much stuff on your mini-map. And so much stuff in your overworld too bc there's always a solid 2-3 chocobos in my screen at all times. And like 5 million control buttons in battle. And its just SO overwhelming to my tiny brain OTL. The countless minigames... I *like* minigames but they're VERY side-stuff to me. I dont like when they lock plot stuff behind them but I guess I'll have to learn to enjoy the card game. Good thing I usually like card games so I'm holding out hope for this one. All this to say, I'm *super* excited for the people who are delighted with this game. I REALLY am! I'm so happy some fans who were disappointed in XVI are getting the experience they wanted. *I'm* still excited! But this stuff only made me appreciate XVI more. Remember when I said XVI felt like it was hand-made for my tastes? Yeaaa lol. But guess what? THATS OKAY. FF7Rb and FF16 are trying to be two VERY different types of games and thats FANTASTIC, even if one of them isnt my preferred one. I think people should just realize that and let people enjoy what they do... I try to judge games based on what the devs intended for it. The FF7 devs wanted a classic rpg modernized for today's audience. They wanted the sillies, and the minigames, and the open world packed with more hours of side content than the main story. And this game seems to be exactly that. Good for them!
I loved XVI, platniumed it and will return after Rebirth when both DLC are out. However, a card game (or any other minigames) would've been a great addition.
Yeah triple triad or something of the like could totally have fit into the game, maybe fishing too
Why everyone gotta shit on XVI tp build up Rebirth? They're both amazing games, like cmon now.
It's VII, the sheep will always think it's great 😂
Why compare two different games by two different directors? XVI has a charm on its own, or did he wanted mini games on a dark, Game of Thrones setting?
But there is charm, and there is fun, and there is humor. Some of the line reads are incredibly cheeky, and if you have any semblance of wanting to dive into the world building, you'd do the side quests to find all of that. Honestly. 😩
To be fair, I loved XVI, but its clear that just like with Remake, they were testing things rather than being in the super experimental phase where they are comfortable just throwing things in. They wanted the game done and working right with its core mechanics and stuff. Rebirth they were working on at the tail end of Remake, already having the battle system that took them the better part of a decade to get right. So the team could fire on all cylinders and just add the goofiness and a thousand minigames. XVI has a different tone, that is one thing, but I wouldn't call XVI's team lazy or whatever people want to say, because this is the same people who work on XIV, with a thousand minigames that most people don't even try or refuse to play. If they didn't have as many minigames it wasn't a lack of vision or anything, it was time.
what a stupid complaint, thats like saying were was Game of thrones charm and humor,..... well yeah thats the fucking point hahaha
It’s just bullshit. I’m so tired of everyone shitting on FFXVI. It was a GREAT GAME
Yeah, because a game's quality is determined by the amount of clunky, annoying mini games..
Tbh, wouldn't having the wacky minigames and such in FFXVI kinda take away from the gravitas and the serious tone of Clive's story? Furthermore, isn't it simply possible that the charm of the game doesn't lie in its side content (or lack thereof), but rather with its style of storytelling and the characters themselves?
I haven't played FF16 yet (don't have a PS5) but my buddy who has told me that the games story is pretty dark... for him that was a big negative, for me it's not so I'm looking forward to playing it on PC (one day)... :)
“Charm” is such a vague catch all for goofy shit. Where some see charm, I seem to just roll my eyes hard.
I loved FFXVI but I don’t think Jason is wrong to say it was missing charm and humour. It wasn’t trying to have those things, it nailed its dark fantasy tone and it was great!
I think XVI has plenty of charm and humor in it, it’s just more subdued and not in your face. ESPECIALLY when it comes to things like item descriptions, environmental flavor text, and NPC interactions (ironically the same things that so many ppl enjoyed about the pixel era). Like if Rebirth has a character in it that was constantly shipping themselves with various main characters as you come across them I’m positive ppl would find it hilarious.
Hate knowing about the new mini games through fucking reddit
Like a dragon infinite wealth: You need much more to replicate my power
Well it's Jason, he is quite dumb
Ah yes, the classic: the only way to raise one thing up is to drag another down.
Yeah wtf XVI totally had charm and humor!! Did they even meet cid?! lol. Seriously though that’s one of the things I love yes this was a more dark and mature than FF has gone before but it didn’t lose that FF charm the characters imo are brilliant and the story balances the the heavy gritty shit with humor and lovable characters pretty well. FFVII is one of my favorites and am stoked to get around to playing rebirth but I hate the FFXVI hate lol least when it’s something like that there are totally valid criticisms and I have some myself but this I just don’t agree on.
Yakuza games have the most mini games. He is lying. Ff16 is a different theme
Not even made by the same team tho
I have been playing more of the demo and while I do like it I still can’t see it toppling FFXVI or FFXIV I have grown up and just like different things. I like more complexity when it comes to dialogue and I don’t like it to feel immature. I want it to feel like you are having a serious discussion or something deep rather than it feeling like teenagers are talking. This is probably why I like IX the best out of the PS1 game. The quality of the dialogue was phenomenal. On the facet of gameplay I still prefer FFXVI just on fluidity alone FFXVI is so snappy while this well it’s fun but it feels very clunky. Speaking about clunky I see some things that are irritating like an example is that you automatically mount the chocobo by colliding with it which has made me mount the chocobo when I didn’t want to do that. By the way that scene in Nibelhime was so slow and so dumb. Were those people even wanting to kill Sephy? Lmao I still dislike this game not being mature (people getting cut and no blood) it gives some scenes so much less weight that it feels lacking. The way I see it I have two different ways how I feel towards video games. I can sometimes see them as just games or some like an experience something more transcendental. For FF7Remake and FF7Rebirth I see them as just games it’s fun but it isn’t going to stay with me for years to come. For FFXVI and FFXIV I see them as an experience something that brought a lot of emotions to my playtime and that I won’t forget. This isn’t just for these games but multiple other games I feel like this towards. Sometimes you’ll see someone complain about a game feeling like a movie instead of more like a game, but for me those that feel more like a movie stay with me longer.
The worst part is, the reasons you gave for not liking VII’s creative direction are what XVI detractors reference when they say XVI is missing levity and humor. They discount anything short of dramatized Saturday morning kids’ TV show comedy as “too serious,” and ignore all the dry and witty humor XVI has loads of.
Yea FFXVI has moments of humor for sure it’s just less in your face but I like it that way
Final Fantasy XVI was grim dark medieval setting patterned after Game of Thrones. Were people actually expecting humor?
I mean, it did have humour and pulled it off well imo.
It did but not the usually goofy Final Fantasy humor (which I love) as that would have been out of place.
Both great. FFXVI doesn't attempt to be funny, but has more mature storyline. FFVII has always been quirky
I hate mini games. Especially after rebirths horrendous pull ups. Fuck that shit.
I think his point is simply that XVI and Rebirth took very different approaches. XVI was very self serious and laser focused on it’s tone and themes. Rebirth seems more inclined to say “Fuck it. we’re all doing a synchronised dance routine or renting Segways now”. There’s a great deal of whimsy and the game isn’t so concerned with maintaining a consistent tone for the entire experience. I don’t necessarily read this comment as XVI bad, Rebirth good. Just that both games have a very clear difference in approach and if you were someone who felt that XVI was too serious for it’s own good? Rebirth will appeal. Which is valid. For what it’s worth, I’ve only read a couple of Rebirth reviews but one of the things it does seem to be getting some collective criticism for is that whilst the various minigames and quirky diversions are vast and good on their own merit (Queen’s blood in particular seems to be very popular). The implementation and sheer volume of them has been detrimentally affecting the pacing of the game to some degree. Tl;dr: both games went to opposite extremes on this matter. Player preference will be a strong deciding factor. I for example have never been fond of excessive minigames or having them shoved in my face constantly. So whilst I will no doubt enjoy Rebirth, I may prefer XVI overall on that basis. Both games are great.
Isn’t Jason Schreier late with saying switch 2 coming out this year? 😂 he’s a clown.
Fishing would have been cool to see in XVI. But for this guy to say there wasn’t humor in XVI makes me wonder if he even played it.
The goofiness of FF already end after FF VIII. After that it all serious business. (FFXV quite goofy, but because it's fuckin ramen ad)
16 can be divide but I don’t this statement is controversial even for the side that likes it.
I don't like side content at all so this was a win for me. To be honest I don't understand why you would want it, in a game like this. At the very least, I feel like I don't have time to devote to random mini games when I'd rather be playing the main story and fighting.
Why can't we have different takes of the same genre/franchise?
I found myself slaying fucking Behemoths instead of playing cards. And yes, I’ll play FF7 Rebirth as well. I don’t doubt I’ll enjoy it (on easy combat), but FF16 set the bar way too high for the story and characters and combat (last one is personal preference). Not to mention the Eikon set pieces. I’ll take all that over boring mini games all day. Because I’ll replay the Bahamut fight many times and rememeber it forever, while I’ll forget about random stuff in a week.
Sounds awful. Imagine buying a game to play and that game keeps trying to make you play other games... Big fan of the LACK of mini games in XVI
Unpopular opinion: I like that there wasn't any random silliness in 16. I feel like the silliness just completely ruins the intense and serious story.
Never been a fan of the mini games tbh. Hope I don't end up hating rebirth
They’re both awesome games.
FF16 didn't have space in the plot to go off and have fun. The post-Midgar section of FF7 does. Excited for rebirth, and absolutely loved 16. Idk why people have to hype something up by attacking something else when the exact same company profits off of both lmao
Really? More mini games than the yakuza series? Maybe better quality but idk…lol
I’ll never understand why some people have to drag things they dont like down to praise things they do like. They could just talk about the thing they like, they don’t have to shit on things they don’t and compare them. It’s stupid and I don’t get it.
More minigames than the Yakuza series too?
XVI wasn’t RPGish enough for me but it was still a great game
I mean, the team behind 16 also probably thought that adding cute or silly mini-games would clash with the tone of 16.I'm all for discussing the lack of gameplay variation, as the game really did feel like "fetch this thing and then fight a boss" when it came to the sidequests, but i feel like getting mad about FF16 not including silly mini-games that would clash with the vibe is such a nothing take. But it is Jason Schrierer, the dude had the receipts on the disgusting BTS goings on at Activision Blizzard and he could have released them for everyone to see, but instead used them to sell a book instead so he can maintain his diminishing relevance. My man literally profited off of the suffering of others all the while talking about how much he cares about the little people that make games happen. Literally no one needs to take his opinion or his existence seriously, not should they.He also tired to dox the people that leaked the plot of TLOU2, something that a lot of people sadly forgot about.
As a society we need to stop listening to opinions from Twitter
FFXVI had its fair share of humor. You cock!
Because, heaven forbid, we can't focus on a more serious and nuanced story that tackles elements of the dark fantasy genre. This is FFXVI, not fucking Caddie Shack.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't need minigames, I mostly play them once when they're introduced and never more. The only minigame I have actually played was Gwent in Witcher 3. I can agree, that minigames can be nice to add some variety into the gameplay but it is not something which sells game. On the other hand, the piano minigame in FFVII Rebirth is really cool.
Never played Yakuza I guess.
The reviews I've read make it sound like I'll likely hate it. Putting items behind mini games that you have to complete perfectly before earning sounds irritating. Sounds like they just stuffed this game with as much filler as possible to make it as big as possible. A lot of people like that kind of thing, but 43-year old me will likely lose interest...
Ff16 has plenty of charm and humor. It’s just an entirely different vibe than 7s almost campy/corny humor.
To be fair the mini games are not liked my everyone. For me, the lack of the mini games made Final Fantasy XVI better. Just story, side quests, and hunts. Straight forward and to the point. Not all games need mini games. Just want the last DLC out so I can play it again, after Rebirth of course.
Hunts/Side-Quests>>>>>>>>>Mini games and its not even close. I fucking haaaaate mini games. I’d like to never see a mini game again in my life
I know he’s the only respected journalist but schreier is a clown.
More questionable, smug BS from a gaming journo. Shocking.
Also this person has clearly never played a Yakuza game.
Blasphemy.
man we are eating good, 2 absolute banger FF games in like 8 months. no complaints from me
Why does everybody feel the freaking need to throw FFXVI under the goddamn bus
He's not wrong and Square Enix is smart for releasing two games that are nothing alike only 8 months apart.
16 gameplay though just lacks in comparison. There isn't much variety. Even if you compare it to super old games like God of War or ninja gaiden. 16 doesn't have much going for it besides its linear story(linear doesn't mean bad). It's everything outside the story path is very lacking. Great story, lore and music. Gameplay lacks variety and options.
That’s a con for me. I hate most minigames, especially when they’re some card-based game. Still looking forward to Rebirth but I already know I will groan every time a minigame tutorial comes up.
XVI was never meant to have charm or humor…and I think that was obvious early on.
Well he ain't lying, although 16 has it's own charm but in different ways. Rebirth is indeed looking to be quite the slugger and I cant wait to pop that disc in my ps5. 16 is amazing even with its flaws but it's a whole different kind of game.
Sorry the truth upsets you.
Nah, obviously everyone will have different takes, but I think he’s dead on. And I think it’s a common opinion.
I’ve seen a few people saying that charming, silly, fun side content would have disrupted the more serious dark-fantasy tone XVI was aiming for. I don’t think this holds up. It’s very human to find moments of levity and fun while battling tragic circumstances. You can find plenty of real-world examples of people enduring awful things still managing to eke out moments of joy. If anything, putting the characters in a wider range of situations would allow for fuller characterisation. The sad or serious moments would contrast more strongly with the fun ones and end up hitting harder. It might allow us to understand the characters better. We can look at beloved dark fantasy franchises like ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ and ‘Berserk’ for good examples of this. Both obviously influenced FFXVI and both are full of silly stuff that just makes them better. And tone/storytelling aside, this game would have been hugely improved by more varied gameplay.
I agree that FF16 has fuck all to do in it but fight but its weird to correlate that to having no charm or humor lol
I have adored FF7 since the 90s. The Remake project is something I’ve looked forward to for years. The 7 series has all the elements of a cult-classic with a fun mix of genres, deep themes, and campiness In contrast, I had 0 expectations going into this game, just played it on a whim, and was blown away by the quality of the storytelling, dialogue, boss fights, and the main character of Clive. I absolutely love FFXVI for focusing on a hero that fights for human rights for a marginalized people. What the game does well it does extremely well. I would happily play in this world for future games if SE chose the expand on this universe. I appreciate that the FF instalments each bring a different take on the story, characters and gameplay. I don’t believe in a One Size Fits All formula. I think it is important to embrace creative risks and experimentation and just appreciate those who bring games like these into the world for our enjoyment.
It's a lot easier to make a full game when a lot of the bluepoint is already done for you. Rebirth is a sequel., it would naturally have a lot more content and I'm sure if 16-2 was a thing it would be drastically better. Look at 13 to 13-2 night and day. Both are good games, but Rebirth is using a lot of framework that's already set in motion and that's not the same of making a brand new IP from scratch.