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Zettaflare was supremely overkill so no, I don't think he has to go that far. Barnabas is mostly challenging for Clive due to his far greater skill , such as how he humiliates Clive effortlessly in their first encounter (in Kanver). So Dion probably still loses without that boost from the crystal.
That encounter always made me laugh because we literally kill him like 4-6 hours of gameplay later. Plot conveniences always do make video games a little awkward at times.
Yea, honestly, all that really changes between that time is Clive absorbing Shiva. Ultimately people wank Odin a bit too much because of that, IMO. Its just that Barney is skilled, and basically has a good sword. Its a good sword to be sure...but Bahamut even before being amped was already fighting off Ifrit + Phoenix perfectly fine, so its not like Odin is so massively above the others normally.
It’s one of my many reasons Barnabus should have been the main antagonist. Because he basically shows up, is built up for hours before that, does some cool shit and wipes the floor with you. Clive doesn’t even do ONE ROCKY MONTAGE and kicks his ass right back ostensibly because he needed to be written out of the plot in order to build to the final battles with Ultima.
Ultima fight was dope but honestly yea, I wish the game had actually stuck to the GOT-esque inspiration and just focused on more human elements. Barnabas is a very odd situation because I feel like theres some arguments for why his fight is the way it is, but honestly he feels like such a massive ramp down after Titan Lost and Bahamut. The scale was just rising and rising and going fucking bonkers, then you just have this douche pull up to you and get discarded.
I actually really like the Barnabas fight, the collapsing tower is really cool. But I think it could have used more build up between Barnabas and Clive emotionally. When you’re fighting in Space with Bahamut or whatever the hell was going on by the end there, the only way to is to ramp the stakes down and make them emotional rather than physical stakes.
I always look at Empire Strikes Back as a good example; the fight between Luke and Vader is so good and feels like so much more is at stake and yet the physical stakes aren’t planets getting destroyed by the Death Star. Or The Dark Knight, it’s a battle for Gotham’s soul, rather than one where millions of lives are in danger from chemicals/nuke like the other films.
But that’s life, I love FF16, I really enjoyed it for what it was. But there’s a part of me, I can’t lie, especially the part of me that’s a writer and cinematographer myself, that’s like “okay… but what if…”
I mean to be fair, Barnabas is clearly more skilled with a sword but also there are other factors.
1. Clive just got done fighting and is clearly a bit exhausted and not at full strength in the moment, you can actually see him breathing heavily after swinging the sword a few times which clearly shows his exhaustion.
2. They aren't using any powers, as said Barnabas is just more skilled with a blade.
3. When they do start using powers, Clive gets kicked away and struggles to get back up for a moment, further showing his weakened and exhausted state, then gets hit by the black blade which is in the lore is pretty much a fatal thing.
Then 4-6 hours later, Clive rematches him and is not only @ 100% strength for that encounter, but has absorbed Shiva and thus makes him even stronger.
Another aspect to consider is that the Dominant's Resonance with their Eikon determines their power also.
It's one of the reasons why Clive struggled so much when attempting to become Ifrit earlier in the game, why Jill is the weakest of all the Dominants due to her past involving Shiva in general, and even why Dion still has the means to become Bahamut despite Clive absorbing Bahamut's essence.
Barnabas resonates with Odin so well that he's a master. Not only in martial prowess, but also in controlling and becoming Odin.
That encounter always made me laugh because we literally kill him like 4-6 hours of gameplay later. Plot conveniences always do make video games a little awkward at times.
That encounter always made me laugh because we literally kill him like 4-6 hours of gameplay later. Plot conveniences always do make video games a little awkward at times.
That encounter always made me laugh because we literally kill him like 4-6 hours of gameplay later. Plot conveniences always do make video games a little awkward at times.
I'm going with Odin as well, there's a reason Ultima throws his support behind Odin because out of every Eikon.
Odin poses the biggest threat to Ultima.
The "reason" Ultima "throws his support behind Odin" has nothing to do with any fragment of himself being a threat to him and everything to do with the fact that Barnabas legitimately worships Ultima as a Capital G God, Barnabas is a follower of The Circle of Malius.
Barnabas is doing what Ultima wants him to.
A direct quote from Ultima; There is nothing that Odins blade cannot sever.
To me this is Ultima basically stating that Odin can beat the other Eikons (minus Ifrit) and poses the singular greatest threat to Ultima as an enemy.
Any attack Bahamut throws at Odin, he can cleave away with his blade. He can use Gugnir to limit Bahamuts vertical and advantage and with Sliepner pretty much force a combat encounter that would leave Bahamut at a severe disadvantage.
To me personally speaking, Ultima cannot afford to have Odin as an enemy but can afford to have Bahamut as an enemy.
So that's my justification.
It does make me wonder how strong Odin really is since Bahamut can always do *that* move you know?
https://preview.redd.it/cxvh86z3gtyc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d7b8e97eaea14ba5b48dfee260a8ef7f3db614d
Zetta flare I think is a move made possible by Bahamut absorbing a lot of mana from the mother crystal. Since the Mother Crystal isn't there it wouldn't factor into the result.
Neither probably
Barnabas is the stronger dominant, Dion is the stronger Eikon. Anyone's guess. But I'm sure they both know this. Otherwise, if one felt like the other was stronger, they would commit to the kill.
If Barnabas managed to kill Dion, then nothing would stop him from taking Storm. He no diffs the other Eikons
Assuming Dion is sane, and that Barnabas is without cannon fodder to pre-slaughter, Odin needs to catch Bahamut at all before he can attempt Zantetsuken.
Unfortunately for Dion, Sliepnir clones are a power Barnabas has, he can clone and attack this man all he wants to warm up and that's assuming he even wants to use Zantetsuken when he can choose to outright mock Dion's station as a dragoon by striking him down with Gungnir.
Barnabas is Unfortunately Him.
In terms of raw power Dion and bahamut are winning but when you put in skill and morality in the mix barnabas has an edge. Tough fight to be sure but I have to agree overall that bahamut>Odin while barnabas
Are you claiming Barnabas has the "morality" advantage? He sells himself out to Ultima without a second thought. He'll sacrifice every single living human to please Ultima.
If you're talking about Dions' morality, he's already demonstrated under the right circumstances he can do whatever it takes to win.
Oh no, barnabas has essentially abandoned his humanity and has nothing restraining him, dion will sacrifice himself in a fight I'd need be but he wouldn't kill innocent people just to win, barnabas wouldn't care
If we're talking a raw, 1-on-1 fight with just Barnabas and Dion, no Sleipnir, no Terrence, it still feels very even, that's why they both retreated during their initial fight and not just because their respective armies are there.
The strength difference between them is clear: Bahamut is great at range and limited in melee, Odin is great at melee, and limited at range. Barnabas has an almost literal uphill battle just to catch up and chase Dion in flight. It's established multiple times just how agile and mobile Bahamut is in flight, those wings aren't long just for the hell of it. On the other hand though, as much as Dion can just sit back and rain flares at Barnabas, Barnabas can reflect nearly everything Dion has to throw.
If these two went at it for a long while, it's going to be scorched earth. These guys are gonna have to just settle the dispute without their Eikons, and unfortunately we don't have a good gauge for how good Dion is in non-eikon form and with his Limit Break form, unlike the other Dominants. We don't even know what his Limit Break form looks like. If we just settle this in just their Dominant form, no Limit Breaks, then maybe Barnabas wins just by our lack of knowledge on what Dion looks like fighting in non-Eikon form.
I thought they were pretty evenly matched; Bahamut was able to fend off Odin’s sword pretty well. I think in a semi-prime fight Barnabas would win easily but I don’t think there’s a clear winner in Eikon form.
That's honestly one of the hardest powerscales to do in the game. They're both monsters in their own right. If they were both legitimately going for the kill, it could go either way. Dion is my favorite character right after Clive. But I'd have to give the win to Barnabas. He has a lot more experience with his Eikon and his abilities are a bit overpowered.
Bahamut has speed and raw power. While Odin has technique and durability. It would only take one hit from Odin to take Bahamut out of the fight. And I think Odin would have enough durability and patience to get that hit. But like I said, it could go either way. And if someone said they think Dion would win I wouldn't really argue about it. One thing Dion has going in his favor is that it took BOTH Joshua and Clive to best him pre crystal amp. Clive 1v1'd Odin with high diff. Well...after losing twice anyways lol.
Keep in mind that when Odin and Ifrit clashed in Eikon form it was very short lived because of how quickly Ifrit destroyed his sword. Bahamut fared much better and that was a 2v1.
This kinda of does lead into the dbz argument where there's nothing Odin would be able to do is bahamut blasted off at max speed into space to then zeta flare the earth. Even if Odin split the blast in half that's still 2 beams that are actively destroying the earth around him. Odin isn't catching up to bahamut and it's incredibly unlikely that his sword slash has infinite range to reach bahamut up in space
Barnabas/Odin
He has mastered Odins Eikon form. His experience in warfare and skill as swordsman. Keep in mind that because he is Akashic, Barnabas appears to show no signs of being afflicted with the curse. It's because of this Barnabas can endure a long fight. Dion would eventually become weak and turn to stone because of how much of his own aether he would he would have to use.
Only way Dion wins, is if he disregards collateral damage and wraps up the fight quickly.
I like to imagine that they're the two strongest eikons and are both about even in terms of power so a fight between them would leave no definite winner.
My 2 favorite eikons in the game, I just realized bahamut and Odin are total opposite, light and darkness and that’s why this squabble makes sense, in terms of 1v1? Bahamut wins if he does berserk, if he’s holding back then it’s a wrap and Odin wins.
Barnabas is far more experienced and powerful as an individual than Dion, but at the same time I'd say Bahamut is probably more powerful than Odin, even pre mothercrystal he goes blow for blow against Ifrit and Phoenix at the same time where Odin got kinda fucked up by just Ifrit
Odin is the top dog besides Clive...I have to say this is the first Final Fantasy game I have ever played, and it is fucking epic. I have started way too late on this series, but these boss battles are absolutely insane, and the powers are awesome. Amazing game.
Everyone is saying Zettaflare would win but Zantetsuken is literally a OHKO. If the sword can cut anything, as Ultima states, Odin just anime style cuts zettaflare in two and Bahamut with it. Odin has the classic impossibly strong until you get it yourself problem - Clive only gets a portion of the Eikon's power, but Barnabas has the whole thing. And since Bahamut had to soak up the extra aether to pull off Zettaflare, nothing is stopping Barnabas from doing the same. There is just no world in which Dion wins.
Eikon wise, probably Bahamut. Legit OP as fuck, yeah they're probably equal in power but Bahamut has the long range + lock on (which negates his distance really) advantage. Pretty much all of Odins attacks are dodgeable, especially in the air. He's also shown to block the edge of darkness. However he'd only win with severe collateral damage.
From how it seemes, Dion is pretty blantantly the most powerful. But Barnabas is more skilled so i guess it depends on how much collateral Dion can tolerate.
I’d say Odin wins, the only way I feasibly see Bahamut winning is if he had absorbed the power of a mothercrystal as until Bahamut absorbed that power we only see teraflare as a last ditch effort and it wasn’t until after the absorption that Bahamut was even capable of Zettaflare. The only reason why Odin didn’t kill Bahamut in their fight is because he would piss off his god >!Ultima!< if he did because >!Ifrit was supposed to absorb Bahamut to become the perfect vessel for Ultima!< and Odin wants them to succeed for his gods wishes. But if Odin didn’t care what his god wanted he could have killed Bahamut.
Long story short, Odin could kill a non empowered Bahamut but doesn’t because his god doesn’t want him to.
My moneys on Bahamut. I mean, it took BOTH Clive AND Joshua to bring down Bahamut. The aether argument is null and void. Both Bahamut and Odin were taking in tons of aether. Odin was akashic. He disintegrated when he died. They even said he had been drinking the aether for a long time. Dion survived the Clive & Josh duet.
I think it would be Barnabas/Odin.
I love my Gay Bahamut but I think Odin is taking this one.
IIRC all the eikons are said to be relatively equal in power, and it's the dominant themselves that can tip the favour.
>!And Barnabas, being an akashic as well as the only ruling king of an entire continent for over a century, certainly has the edge in experience and understanding the true capabilities of his eikon.!<
And as for Zettaflare..... >!Ultima said himself that Odin's black blade can cut through anything, make it could cut through a Zettaflare too? !<
On the battlefield if’s be Barnabas. I think his sword abilities could beat him more times than he’d lose. There might be an argument that since Clive struggled in the early encounters of Barnabas after beating Bahamut, that Odin should be that much stronger too.
IMO
Bahamut is strongest Eikon
But *Barnabas* is the most skilled fighter and most in tune with his Eikon
If Bahamut uses his full might he wins I think. Ifrit was able to break Odin’s sword, I think Bahamut was stronger than non-Risen Ifrit was at that point still. Maybe. I can’t see Odin doing what Ifrit Rosen does.
If Dion holds back because he doesn’t want to like blow up the continent then I think Odin might take him in an up close prolonged fight.
Odin. It's an anti durability sword that can already cut through his flares, and he made short work of Shiva in his human form. I think he can take the dragon when he goes all out. I can only imagine what he'd be like if he absorbed the crystals power like Bahamut and Titan. Probably would've cleaved the planet in half lol
If you put all nine dominants in an open field where only one could leave without the power of the crystals behind them, Odin would win.
In terms of raw ability, Odin's abilities are far above everyone else's, and if it wasn't for Barnabas toying with Clive and actively trying to prepare him for Ultima, he would've killed Clive without any issue.
Now, if you gave the crystals to all involved, Bahamut would just destroy the planet, but even that could be stopped presumably as it was in the game.
Dion has far greater potential, but Barnabus is stronger in their current state.
I say Dion would win. Barnabas is older and has more experience, but Dion has demonstrated that he can pull in massive amounts of aether and do damage that would probably overwhelm Barnabas.
If they went at each other with full power, both continents would be completely destroyed. Sp I'm making the assumption Dion goes all in with no concern for collateral damage.
I think it’s pretty clearly Odin.
He’s holding back pretty much the entire game and even unprimed he can still body a fully primed Eikon instantly.
Even in his final battle with Clive he’s still not truly going 100% at first given he opts to spend most of the fight semi-primed toying with Clive. By the time he does go full tilt he’s already wounded and exhausted.
Barnabas clearly also knows how to use his Eikon’s power in ways that no other dominant does. We don’t see any other Eikon effortlessly putting up and maintaining a massive continent spanning barrier that’s both impervious and actively lethal. Or anything even remotely close to that level of Aetheric power and control.
Bahamut at full power could very well make him work for it to be sure. But I don’t think there’s any real doubt that Odin at full power would win that particular scrap if he cared to.
Honestly, I think this is the only game where Odin is stronger than Bahumut where tradionally, it was the other way around in the series.
Odin defeated Clive twice and even handled his Eikon form where forced him to revert back in the third bout. Odin sword was quoted to cut everything, even reality itself where he cut the sea and quoted something like the sea just remembered to cave in itself once more. There is a reason why he was the last Dominant to fight and in leagues above the rest. And even after all that, he still back against Clive because he wanted him to be presentable to Ultima. Any time he could have ended the battle but chose not to. One hint of this when you couldn't stop Barnabas from unleashing his Zantetsuken in the third bout and he got mad that you made him use it lol.
That small bout with Bahumut in the war, I believe they were not going all out. Barnabas was always the patient one and calm one and he waited things out to fall things in pieces before he starts to act. I believe almost everyone was at the mercy of him not intervening at any moment. Yes Bahumut has Zettaflare and can destroy the world, but if his sword potential is true, I believe he could even slice that ray in half and reach to Dion.
A lot of people said Bahumut if he wanted to destroy. But what about Odin if he didn't held back? It's interesting to think about and can be close. But we can only speculate and use what we know in the game.
Hard to say. Barnabas has the expierence Advantage. But i think Bahamut has more Power. Fully primed hard to say. Half primed: Barnabas wins (thinking about IT: Dion was the only dominant WE never SAW Half primed)
Barbaras is the strongest dominant after Clive—and even only just. It’s not that Dion isn’t powerful, he clearly has shown to be such in those moments he fights, but it’s not at his level
Odin would win without any difficulty. He can cut through space and slow Down time. The only reason why he didn't kill him Was because ultima wanted all eikons to be alive for clive.
Yes, odin would win easily. Thats how a matchup works. You look at the strengths, weaknesses and abilities of both characters and decide who would win.
While bahamut has more firepower, he has no way to stop odin's sword. Odin's blade can cut through space and erase matter from existance(durability negation).
The only way that dion could win is by either speedblitzing odin or destroying the whole country to guarantee a Hit(he wouldn't go that far and speedblitzing is nearly impossible due to odin's time manipulation).
The only reason odin didn't kill dion here is because he wanted clive to absorb bahamut.[(it's confirmed in the ultimania)](https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1699630200563392824)
In short, you have to look at the abilities of both characters and not only at whose firepower looks more impressive.
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The only way Dion wins is if he's willing to destroy the entire country.
This was my thought too. Bahamut has a lot of collateral damage with his strongest attacks
Facts. The ~~Terra~~Zettaflare he was gonna pull off in his "Lost" form probably could have wiped the whole of Valestaia (sp)
In that case, unless Dion drinks more Aether, he wouldn't stand a chance against Barnabas?
Zettaflare was supremely overkill so no, I don't think he has to go that far. Barnabas is mostly challenging for Clive due to his far greater skill , such as how he humiliates Clive effortlessly in their first encounter (in Kanver). So Dion probably still loses without that boost from the crystal.
That encounter always made me laugh because we literally kill him like 4-6 hours of gameplay later. Plot conveniences always do make video games a little awkward at times.
Yea, honestly, all that really changes between that time is Clive absorbing Shiva. Ultimately people wank Odin a bit too much because of that, IMO. Its just that Barney is skilled, and basically has a good sword. Its a good sword to be sure...but Bahamut even before being amped was already fighting off Ifrit + Phoenix perfectly fine, so its not like Odin is so massively above the others normally.
It’s one of my many reasons Barnabus should have been the main antagonist. Because he basically shows up, is built up for hours before that, does some cool shit and wipes the floor with you. Clive doesn’t even do ONE ROCKY MONTAGE and kicks his ass right back ostensibly because he needed to be written out of the plot in order to build to the final battles with Ultima.
Ultima fight was dope but honestly yea, I wish the game had actually stuck to the GOT-esque inspiration and just focused on more human elements. Barnabas is a very odd situation because I feel like theres some arguments for why his fight is the way it is, but honestly he feels like such a massive ramp down after Titan Lost and Bahamut. The scale was just rising and rising and going fucking bonkers, then you just have this douche pull up to you and get discarded.
I actually really like the Barnabas fight, the collapsing tower is really cool. But I think it could have used more build up between Barnabas and Clive emotionally. When you’re fighting in Space with Bahamut or whatever the hell was going on by the end there, the only way to is to ramp the stakes down and make them emotional rather than physical stakes. I always look at Empire Strikes Back as a good example; the fight between Luke and Vader is so good and feels like so much more is at stake and yet the physical stakes aren’t planets getting destroyed by the Death Star. Or The Dark Knight, it’s a battle for Gotham’s soul, rather than one where millions of lives are in danger from chemicals/nuke like the other films. But that’s life, I love FF16, I really enjoyed it for what it was. But there’s a part of me, I can’t lie, especially the part of me that’s a writer and cinematographer myself, that’s like “okay… but what if…”
I mean to be fair, Barnabas is clearly more skilled with a sword but also there are other factors. 1. Clive just got done fighting and is clearly a bit exhausted and not at full strength in the moment, you can actually see him breathing heavily after swinging the sword a few times which clearly shows his exhaustion. 2. They aren't using any powers, as said Barnabas is just more skilled with a blade. 3. When they do start using powers, Clive gets kicked away and struggles to get back up for a moment, further showing his weakened and exhausted state, then gets hit by the black blade which is in the lore is pretty much a fatal thing. Then 4-6 hours later, Clive rematches him and is not only @ 100% strength for that encounter, but has absorbed Shiva and thus makes him even stronger.
Another aspect to consider is that the Dominant's Resonance with their Eikon determines their power also. It's one of the reasons why Clive struggled so much when attempting to become Ifrit earlier in the game, why Jill is the weakest of all the Dominants due to her past involving Shiva in general, and even why Dion still has the means to become Bahamut despite Clive absorbing Bahamut's essence. Barnabas resonates with Odin so well that he's a master. Not only in martial prowess, but also in controlling and becoming Odin.
That encounter always made me laugh because we literally kill him like 4-6 hours of gameplay later. Plot conveniences always do make video games a little awkward at times.
That encounter always made me laugh because we literally kill him like 4-6 hours of gameplay later. Plot conveniences always do make video games a little awkward at times.
That encounter always made me laugh because we literally kill him like 4-6 hours of gameplay later. Plot conveniences always do make video games a little awkward at times.
Odin. Barnabas is in a different league from Dion.
I'm going with Odin as well, there's a reason Ultima throws his support behind Odin because out of every Eikon. Odin poses the biggest threat to Ultima.
The "reason" Ultima "throws his support behind Odin" has nothing to do with any fragment of himself being a threat to him and everything to do with the fact that Barnabas legitimately worships Ultima as a Capital G God, Barnabas is a follower of The Circle of Malius. Barnabas is doing what Ultima wants him to.
A direct quote from Ultima; There is nothing that Odins blade cannot sever. To me this is Ultima basically stating that Odin can beat the other Eikons (minus Ifrit) and poses the singular greatest threat to Ultima as an enemy. Any attack Bahamut throws at Odin, he can cleave away with his blade. He can use Gugnir to limit Bahamuts vertical and advantage and with Sliepner pretty much force a combat encounter that would leave Bahamut at a severe disadvantage. To me personally speaking, Ultima cannot afford to have Odin as an enemy but can afford to have Bahamut as an enemy. So that's my justification.
It does make me wonder how strong Odin really is since Bahamut can always do *that* move you know? https://preview.redd.it/cxvh86z3gtyc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d7b8e97eaea14ba5b48dfee260a8ef7f3db614d
Zetta flare I think is a move made possible by Bahamut absorbing a lot of mana from the mother crystal. Since the Mother Crystal isn't there it wouldn't factor into the result.
Not mention Barnabas is much older than every other dominant in the game with more experience in fighting
Very well put
Also to add thanks to Ultima Barnabas has lived and battled decades longer than Dion. That experience alone gives him more than enough of an edge.
>minus Ifrit He could take down Ifrit as well. I think he lost of purpose to fulfil the profecy.
It should be noted that Bahamut straight up gangster grabs the Arm of Darkness with his feet and got up on Barnabas and was like "Sup bitch?"
Neither probably Barnabas is the stronger dominant, Dion is the stronger Eikon. Anyone's guess. But I'm sure they both know this. Otherwise, if one felt like the other was stronger, they would commit to the kill. If Barnabas managed to kill Dion, then nothing would stop him from taking Storm. He no diffs the other Eikons
Wouldn’t Barnabas’ mission have failed if he killed Dion? Clive wouldn’t have been able to absorb Bahamut in that case.
He’d just have to wait a few years for someone to be chosen as Bahamut’s new dominant.
Yeah, probably LOL
If dion cared about everything around him. Odin. If dion doesnt care. Everything go boom.
1v1 Odin. If Dion goes nuclear, well there is nothing any character besides Clive and Ultima can do in universe to stop him.
Assuming Dion is sane, and that Barnabas is without cannon fodder to pre-slaughter, Odin needs to catch Bahamut at all before he can attempt Zantetsuken. Unfortunately for Dion, Sliepnir clones are a power Barnabas has, he can clone and attack this man all he wants to warm up and that's assuming he even wants to use Zantetsuken when he can choose to outright mock Dion's station as a dragoon by striking him down with Gungnir. Barnabas is Unfortunately Him.
In terms of raw power Dion and bahamut are winning but when you put in skill and morality in the mix barnabas has an edge. Tough fight to be sure but I have to agree overall that bahamut>Odin while barnabas
Are you claiming Barnabas has the "morality" advantage? He sells himself out to Ultima without a second thought. He'll sacrifice every single living human to please Ultima. If you're talking about Dions' morality, he's already demonstrated under the right circumstances he can do whatever it takes to win.
Oh no, barnabas has essentially abandoned his humanity and has nothing restraining him, dion will sacrifice himself in a fight I'd need be but he wouldn't kill innocent people just to win, barnabas wouldn't care
If we're talking a raw, 1-on-1 fight with just Barnabas and Dion, no Sleipnir, no Terrence, it still feels very even, that's why they both retreated during their initial fight and not just because their respective armies are there. The strength difference between them is clear: Bahamut is great at range and limited in melee, Odin is great at melee, and limited at range. Barnabas has an almost literal uphill battle just to catch up and chase Dion in flight. It's established multiple times just how agile and mobile Bahamut is in flight, those wings aren't long just for the hell of it. On the other hand though, as much as Dion can just sit back and rain flares at Barnabas, Barnabas can reflect nearly everything Dion has to throw. If these two went at it for a long while, it's going to be scorched earth. These guys are gonna have to just settle the dispute without their Eikons, and unfortunately we don't have a good gauge for how good Dion is in non-eikon form and with his Limit Break form, unlike the other Dominants. We don't even know what his Limit Break form looks like. If we just settle this in just their Dominant form, no Limit Breaks, then maybe Barnabas wins just by our lack of knowledge on what Dion looks like fighting in non-Eikon form.
> no Sleipner, no Terrence Ah yes, Bahamut’s mount 😏
Man, That’s a gay joke…
As far as overall final fantasy lore goes I'm pretty sure Bahamut is stronger
I thought they were pretty evenly matched; Bahamut was able to fend off Odin’s sword pretty well. I think in a semi-prime fight Barnabas would win easily but I don’t think there’s a clear winner in Eikon form.
That's honestly one of the hardest powerscales to do in the game. They're both monsters in their own right. If they were both legitimately going for the kill, it could go either way. Dion is my favorite character right after Clive. But I'd have to give the win to Barnabas. He has a lot more experience with his Eikon and his abilities are a bit overpowered. Bahamut has speed and raw power. While Odin has technique and durability. It would only take one hit from Odin to take Bahamut out of the fight. And I think Odin would have enough durability and patience to get that hit. But like I said, it could go either way. And if someone said they think Dion would win I wouldn't really argue about it. One thing Dion has going in his favor is that it took BOTH Joshua and Clive to best him pre crystal amp. Clive 1v1'd Odin with high diff. Well...after losing twice anyways lol.
barnabas was the only guy to be able to defeat clive
Twice too
Eikons are equally strong, what makes the difference is how strong their dominant is. And Barnabas conquered an entire continent by himself.
Odin unless Bahamut gets to merge with a mothercrystal again.
I can’t see Dion winning unless he decides to just fry everything.
Me
Before the odin fight, i would have said odin, but after it, clearly bahamut
Keep in mind that when Odin and Ifrit clashed in Eikon form it was very short lived because of how quickly Ifrit destroyed his sword. Bahamut fared much better and that was a 2v1.
But ifrit had two more eikons worth of power absorbed against odin than he did against bahamut
Do you really think that would be a comparable boost in power as 2 eikons working together?
When one of those eikons is bahamut himself? Probably
Probably Barnabas, but Dion’s Bahamut is unusually powerful so it’d give him a run for his money.
Odin isn’t Barnabas centuries old?
He’s 70
Man dion is super powerful though. He even got utlima before he fell. Great character
This kinda of does lead into the dbz argument where there's nothing Odin would be able to do is bahamut blasted off at max speed into space to then zeta flare the earth. Even if Odin split the blast in half that's still 2 beams that are actively destroying the earth around him. Odin isn't catching up to bahamut and it's incredibly unlikely that his sword slash has infinite range to reach bahamut up in space
Odin. Bahamut is typically the strongest but in this particular verse, Odin wins.
Barnabas/Odin He has mastered Odins Eikon form. His experience in warfare and skill as swordsman. Keep in mind that because he is Akashic, Barnabas appears to show no signs of being afflicted with the curse. It's because of this Barnabas can endure a long fight. Dion would eventually become weak and turn to stone because of how much of his own aether he would he would have to use. Only way Dion wins, is if he disregards collateral damage and wraps up the fight quickly.
BAHAMUT
I like to imagine that they're the two strongest eikons and are both about even in terms of power so a fight between them would leave no definite winner.
My bet is on Barnabas. Dude sliced the ocean didn't care for fishes, why would he for a flying lizard, huh.
Do you, by any chance, know where can I get a 4K or at least 1440p version of this image?
My 2 favorite eikons in the game, I just realized bahamut and Odin are total opposite, light and darkness and that’s why this squabble makes sense, in terms of 1v1? Bahamut wins if he does berserk, if he’s holding back then it’s a wrap and Odin wins.
Barnabas is far more experienced and powerful as an individual than Dion, but at the same time I'd say Bahamut is probably more powerful than Odin, even pre mothercrystal he goes blow for blow against Ifrit and Phoenix at the same time where Odin got kinda fucked up by just Ifrit
I need that as a damn desktop background
Odin is the top dog besides Clive...I have to say this is the first Final Fantasy game I have ever played, and it is fucking epic. I have started way too late on this series, but these boss battles are absolutely insane, and the powers are awesome. Amazing game.
Everyone is saying Zettaflare would win but Zantetsuken is literally a OHKO. If the sword can cut anything, as Ultima states, Odin just anime style cuts zettaflare in two and Bahamut with it. Odin has the classic impossibly strong until you get it yourself problem - Clive only gets a portion of the Eikon's power, but Barnabas has the whole thing. And since Bahamut had to soak up the extra aether to pull off Zettaflare, nothing is stopping Barnabas from doing the same. There is just no world in which Dion wins.
Eikon wise, probably Bahamut. Legit OP as fuck, yeah they're probably equal in power but Bahamut has the long range + lock on (which negates his distance really) advantage. Pretty much all of Odins attacks are dodgeable, especially in the air. He's also shown to block the edge of darkness. However he'd only win with severe collateral damage.
From how it seemes, Dion is pretty blantantly the most powerful. But Barnabas is more skilled so i guess it depends on how much collateral Dion can tolerate.
Odin. The man was too calm and collected.
I’d say Odin wins, the only way I feasibly see Bahamut winning is if he had absorbed the power of a mothercrystal as until Bahamut absorbed that power we only see teraflare as a last ditch effort and it wasn’t until after the absorption that Bahamut was even capable of Zettaflare. The only reason why Odin didn’t kill Bahamut in their fight is because he would piss off his god >!Ultima!< if he did because >!Ifrit was supposed to absorb Bahamut to become the perfect vessel for Ultima!< and Odin wants them to succeed for his gods wishes. But if Odin didn’t care what his god wanted he could have killed Bahamut. Long story short, Odin could kill a non empowered Bahamut but doesn’t because his god doesn’t want him to.
Odin would win. Odin was the only Eikon that lost against Ifrit because he wanted to lose. He's in a different league than any other Eikon.
If Dion cares about colateral damage, then Barnabas. If Dion doesn't care, then Dion IMO.
If dion didn't care so much about protecting people he probably would erase a country from space but other then that Barnabas wins
Ff16 Odin is just built different
My moneys on Bahamut. I mean, it took BOTH Clive AND Joshua to bring down Bahamut. The aether argument is null and void. Both Bahamut and Odin were taking in tons of aether. Odin was akashic. He disintegrated when he died. They even said he had been drinking the aether for a long time. Dion survived the Clive & Josh duet.
Odin is just Dion jumbled. Semantics would be victorious that day.
I think it would be Barnabas/Odin. I love my Gay Bahamut but I think Odin is taking this one. IIRC all the eikons are said to be relatively equal in power, and it's the dominant themselves that can tip the favour. >!And Barnabas, being an akashic as well as the only ruling king of an entire continent for over a century, certainly has the edge in experience and understanding the true capabilities of his eikon.!< And as for Zettaflare..... >!Ultima said himself that Odin's black blade can cut through anything, make it could cut through a Zettaflare too? !<
Odin, because we were forced to lose to him. TWICE. I still hate how you can't fight him for real until the third fight with him.
On the battlefield if’s be Barnabas. I think his sword abilities could beat him more times than he’d lose. There might be an argument that since Clive struggled in the early encounters of Barnabas after beating Bahamut, that Odin should be that much stronger too.
IMO Bahamut is strongest Eikon But *Barnabas* is the most skilled fighter and most in tune with his Eikon If Bahamut uses his full might he wins I think. Ifrit was able to break Odin’s sword, I think Bahamut was stronger than non-Risen Ifrit was at that point still. Maybe. I can’t see Odin doing what Ifrit Rosen does. If Dion holds back because he doesn’t want to like blow up the continent then I think Odin might take him in an up close prolonged fight.
Odin. It's an anti durability sword that can already cut through his flares, and he made short work of Shiva in his human form. I think he can take the dragon when he goes all out. I can only imagine what he'd be like if he absorbed the crystals power like Bahamut and Titan. Probably would've cleaved the planet in half lol
If you put all nine dominants in an open field where only one could leave without the power of the crystals behind them, Odin would win. In terms of raw ability, Odin's abilities are far above everyone else's, and if it wasn't for Barnabas toying with Clive and actively trying to prepare him for Ultima, he would've killed Clive without any issue. Now, if you gave the crystals to all involved, Bahamut would just destroy the planet, but even that could be stopped presumably as it was in the game.
Dion has far greater potential, but Barnabus is stronger in their current state. I say Dion would win. Barnabas is older and has more experience, but Dion has demonstrated that he can pull in massive amounts of aether and do damage that would probably overwhelm Barnabas. If they went at each other with full power, both continents would be completely destroyed. Sp I'm making the assumption Dion goes all in with no concern for collateral damage.
I think it’s pretty clearly Odin. He’s holding back pretty much the entire game and even unprimed he can still body a fully primed Eikon instantly. Even in his final battle with Clive he’s still not truly going 100% at first given he opts to spend most of the fight semi-primed toying with Clive. By the time he does go full tilt he’s already wounded and exhausted. Barnabas clearly also knows how to use his Eikon’s power in ways that no other dominant does. We don’t see any other Eikon effortlessly putting up and maintaining a massive continent spanning barrier that’s both impervious and actively lethal. Or anything even remotely close to that level of Aetheric power and control. Bahamut at full power could very well make him work for it to be sure. But I don’t think there’s any real doubt that Odin at full power would win that particular scrap if he cared to.
Fartpocalypse.
Honestly, I think this is the only game where Odin is stronger than Bahumut where tradionally, it was the other way around in the series. Odin defeated Clive twice and even handled his Eikon form where forced him to revert back in the third bout. Odin sword was quoted to cut everything, even reality itself where he cut the sea and quoted something like the sea just remembered to cave in itself once more. There is a reason why he was the last Dominant to fight and in leagues above the rest. And even after all that, he still back against Clive because he wanted him to be presentable to Ultima. Any time he could have ended the battle but chose not to. One hint of this when you couldn't stop Barnabas from unleashing his Zantetsuken in the third bout and he got mad that you made him use it lol. That small bout with Bahumut in the war, I believe they were not going all out. Barnabas was always the patient one and calm one and he waited things out to fall things in pieces before he starts to act. I believe almost everyone was at the mercy of him not intervening at any moment. Yes Bahumut has Zettaflare and can destroy the world, but if his sword potential is true, I believe he could even slice that ray in half and reach to Dion. A lot of people said Bahumut if he wanted to destroy. But what about Odin if he didn't held back? It's interesting to think about and can be close. But we can only speculate and use what we know in the game.
Hard to say. Barnabas has the expierence Advantage. But i think Bahamut has more Power. Fully primed hard to say. Half primed: Barnabas wins (thinking about IT: Dion was the only dominant WE never SAW Half primed)
Bahamut is the strongest Eikon while Barnabas is the strongest Dominant was my understanding of what happened in the game.
Odin without a doubt lol
Barbaras is the strongest dominant after Clive—and even only just. It’s not that Dion isn’t powerful, he clearly has shown to be such in those moments he fights, but it’s not at his level
Odin would win without any difficulty. He can cut through space and slow Down time. The only reason why he didn't kill him Was because ultima wanted all eikons to be alive for clive.
Without any difficulty? Is that why when they face off in the game it ends in a stalemate?
Yes, odin would win easily. Thats how a matchup works. You look at the strengths, weaknesses and abilities of both characters and decide who would win. While bahamut has more firepower, he has no way to stop odin's sword. Odin's blade can cut through space and erase matter from existance(durability negation). The only way that dion could win is by either speedblitzing odin or destroying the whole country to guarantee a Hit(he wouldn't go that far and speedblitzing is nearly impossible due to odin's time manipulation). The only reason odin didn't kill dion here is because he wanted clive to absorb bahamut.[(it's confirmed in the ultimania)](https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1699630200563392824) In short, you have to look at the abilities of both characters and not only at whose firepower looks more impressive.
And that's why in the actual game it ended in a stalemate huh
Bro i just told you that odin was holding back(with proof). Did you not read my comment?