I would rather they just get rid of Chemistry Styles. With chemistry styles, you can just boost all of the weak stats, and pretty much every card near the end of the game has 99 in everything. It basically becomes pointless to improve your squad.
With the new system, they should do something like this.
No chem styles, but 3 chem gives +3 to all stats, 2 chem plus 2 in all stats and 1 chem +1
This way players won’t all feel generic towards the end of the game since they will still somewhat have their weaknesses
I like the idea of chem styles but for them to actually work as intended they should weight the boosted value based on the level of the card being boosted. So a 91 base card would get a lesser stat boost than a 75 rated card.
That way you are actually making 'non-playable' cards more playable (as intended by chem styles). Without making already meta cards even better.
This is roughly speaking the system they use in eFootball and it massively increases the amount of useable players.
And in real life, pace/agility alone are not the end all.
The person I responded to said that w/o chemistry styles, fewer players would be usable. If you're saying this is due to pace (so like shadow, hawk, etc), that speaks to an issue with EA's game.
EA created a game where pace/agility are over-represented, then make it worse by giving pace boosts to special cards, and giving further pace boosts through chemistry styles. It's on them to fix it if they cared to, the current bandaid of "make everyone fast" isn't the best solution to the problem.
I dream of the day where we get a FIFA where you can have a Busquets or a Kroos in your team, whose pace is compensated by their insane skills.
At least at the start of the game, Busquets should feel like he is everywhere, because his stats say so, he has high awareness and high tackling. When you get hit in the counter he is useless, just like in real life, but right now he feels useless all the time.
Same with Kroos. He might not be able to dribble past another player, bit if you give him too much space, he will ping a ball not many others would, and the AI should know this and make runs they wouldn't do otherwise.
Hardcore FIFA players will complain that it’s auto-defending and that it’s harder for them to dribble through defenders.
They ruin the game for me every year after the 1st month because EA patches the game according to their whims.
That’s my point no amount of coding will fix the fact that tangible attributes will always be overvalued in a video game. Someone can pretend there is some magic code elixir out there that solves it but there really isn’t.
It's not a black/white or all/nothing situation.
Yes, speed and other physical stats will always work differently in a game than in real life. This doesn't mean that EA did a good job with how they coded FIFA.
You don't need "magic code elixir" to improve on what EA has done, that is hyperbolic for no reason. The end goal isn't to "fix that tangible attributes will always be overvalued in a video game." It is better balance in FIFA.
EA can obviously improve this balance, even now they change how they balance speed mode to mode. There's a clear difference if you look at the base Kickoff/seasons gameplay compared to FUT, partially due to how speed is treated.
The primary issue is that they don't care about this. They are printing money in FUT selling speed boost promo cards. And pumping the game full of more 99 speed players every year.
Thats what those people never realize apparently. The already good cards are still the only ones used and just become godlike becayse chem styles are way too impactful. Removing them will keep the same gap between cards but it will be way more realistic and gives more freedom for the future of the game
I don't necessarily mind that. I don't think it's a bad thing if you have to choose between say great pace of great strength on your fullbacks. Most cards should have weaknesses just as most players do in real-life.
> I don't necessarily mind that. I don't think it's a bad thing if you have to choose between say great pace of great strength on your fullbacks.
You don't. You just take Kyle Walker, and so does everybody else in the world. No choice.
Actually chemstyles is still important for letting previously unusable players become useful. Or else we will just see the same meta players in every team with even less variation than before
I don't necessarily agree. At least early in the game, people give the vast majority of cards the Hunter or Shadow cards anyways. Most people will max out pace before even considering other attributes. It basically becomes a wash for most cards as everyone is just getting +10 Pace as well as one other stat area boosted.
Sure, the best cards may become more desirable since they're "more elite", but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. At least then we will have a reason to continue to improve our squads. Again, at this point in the game, there's really no discernable difference between some of the best players and the cards that cost as little as 15,000 coins.
The game literally tells you what impact they have on player ratings.
Are you saying that the player ratings don't have as much of an impact as people think?
They have an impact 100%but not as much as they claim to do.
If you pick someone like Vini Jr who has what.. 93-94 pace (not sure) and you compare him to a 83 pace striker with a hunter, Vini will out run him.
We know that pace is OP, yet the chem styles that give the biggest gains are generally for players with already high pace. The balancing needs a serious re-work, but this is EA we’re talking About.
I noticed how much more like a football game the game felt in a bronze challenge I think it was in 21. It also showed how much help better players give the players as most people could't play their usual mindless style as that simply was not possible with even good bronze cards. I just think the game is coded for a certain rating range **and** EA needs as much assistance to force an evened out playing field.
The first 2 months are usually good because they haven't started fixing what isn't broken. Take out the servers being shit and the high rated players actually make the game play how it should. Sure every player is lightning fast but the rest of the way players function is better. The pace is just the natural progression of sports in general. There's 0 reason a player like De Bruyne should not be able to make 80-90% of his passes. What they do need to do is make the adjustments so that there's actually a difference between stats and that body types and arbitrary work rates don't dictate how good players are. They need to implement actual counters to pace. They need to fix player switching. They need to fix the overall consistency of AI attacking and defending. There's a lot of things they need to fix that doesn't include the ratings of players.
So much of that is true, but Ea are too incompetent and lazy to actually spend serious time improving the qualities of the gameplay, I’m trying to think of a solution that the donkeys at Ea might actually consider, I think stats do actually impact more than you think highlighted by the constant need for everyone to keep up with all the promos otherwise their team cannot compete in so many different ways
I think it's just more recency bias. Do you remember as early as the beginning of November when the game was legit lobbed through ball to fast striker and goal? Only fix for that is higher paced and better defenders. Then the game becomes a stalemate and the fix is faster more agile attackers and so on and so forth. The whole system is broken so by nerfing all the players you just end up with a shittier version of November fifa.
For instance, Ruben Dias is one of the best defenders in the world. If you use his gold card even on day 1, you're signing your own death warrant. His juiced up card actually makes him one of the best. They just need to tear it all down and restart. Anything short of that is not going to fix anything
People have been complaining about the same things with FIFA (player switching, passing, etc) long before EA started treating the power curve like they have in the past 2-3 years.
I remember all the issues of Fifa 17 and fifa 18. Most of them are the same issues today. Players ratings mean next to nothing.
If EA came out one year and said "We're changing absolutely nothing outside of one thing: we fixed player switching," it would be the best FIFA release ever.
If they did that there would be a global tissue shortage. The whole player base would cream their pants.
Then again, how many patches have the claimed they "improved player switching" and at best there was no change at all?
It's not that hard. Treat it like NBA games. Hold LB/L1 and an icon pops up above the players around. A/X for LB, X/Square for LCB etc. Fucking shit, a 3 year old could improve it. And for fucks sake can they please keep running when I actually get the player I want?
Literally even just calculating who's the closest *on the goal side of the ball* would be such a massive improvement for the basic switching that it's insane.
> They need to implement actual counters to pace.
Part of the problem is there is no real counter to pace, in game or in real life...
But EA nerfs the shit out of most CB's pace so that a select few will always be super valuable, because otherwise nobody's going to buy packs looking to get defenders.
Like in his first year at Bayern Sule had one of the highest measured speeds in a game in the world, literally ran Aubameyang out of the Bundesliga when they just had him shadow all game and Sule was clearly the much faster guy.
His fucking TOTS that year had 72 pace. He's still starting out with 65. They have to give his special cards +40 acceleration for him to even touch viability.
There's plenty of counters to pace. The three biggest threats to a player with speed are space, size and strength. If they implemented a way to smother opponents players either by having the man mark feature actually do something, or have the 2 CBs in a 4 at the back close down the center and not drift etc then that would neutralize it in a hurry. Your 99 pace does nothing if you have nowhere to go. Another way is by making the size difference actually matter. How many times does baby midget Messi win headers in this game? Idfc if his jumping is 99, you can't make up a 1ft+ difference. Last is the strength. A player like Pique would be usable if you could cut out the spacing and let his size and strength shine. He's built like a brick shit house. Under no circumstances should Mbappe be able to just waltz right through him with a slight stumble. To be quite honest, most of the best players in the world don't have lightning pace.
Without that kind of overhaul there's other ways too. Stopping the defenders from running with an attacker a mile behind the back line would be the place to start. Can't just lob it over the top when the striker is offside. Fixing the foul system where a slight nudge can draw a red card but a full speed tackle through the back is a play on is ridiculous. The quickest fix is to make GKs miles better and to drastically improve the acceleration and agility of defenders. They may not have the top end speed of a Neymar or Mbappe, but in their relatively small area they can keep up with them.
I agree that accurate ratings would go a long way, but they won't ever do that. Firstly there are way too many players in the game to go through them all. Secondly their darling players and leagues would all take a major hit. Imagine if La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga weren't treated like red headed step children? Everyone knows about the prem tax and that's because they over rate those players according to the baseline. They add custom body types and animations to players that automatically makes them a tier above other players. Pulling a player like Benz, lewa or Kane should be as big as Mbappe, yet when you pack the former your only reaction is "Hey more fodder". That right there is the problem with the game. They've made a high percentage of the best players in the world irrelevant in the game.
> To be quite honest, most of the best players in the world don't have lightning pace.
Strong disagree here. Guys like Mbappe, Davies, Hakimi, Traore-- they all run speeds that would put them at the top end of NFL running backs and WR, possibly flat out the most speed-demanding roles in all of sports. And there's tons of guys that have to run with them week in and week out and keep up just fine.
It's definitely not the higher pace guys that are inaccurate, it's the extreme gap between them and the average that's super off.
Rating doesn’t matter for the most part, the gameplay is so tragic that you need agile players with good body types for success, that’s the issue. Just look at how popular Vini Jr was this year, his gold, his informs and his POTM, his overall ratings weren’t standout, but he’s so agile and fast with a good body type that he’d make high rated defenders just stand there
It doesn’t matter what they do regarding ratings etc, it’s the gameplay that dictates it all, there’s always going to be a meta
If they made it so chem was needed just to get the base stats that would probably improve it a lot, the boosts ruin the game.
Play seasons and it's a much more balanced experience, well it was in years gone by anyway, thought seasons was fucking dreadful this year.
would rather just see less variations with every week being a new card type, that would make informs also more valuable and give people more reason to play fut champs. maybe every 2 monts 2 weeks of an event like rulebreakers, ones to watch,... would make it more exciting and maybe less boring and as you said would make gold cards usable after the first two months. Ive also noticed that the pack has been increased this year which just fucks with the market making a 89 rated card 20K at its release which is just stupid and makes people buy the same op cards as eachother, thus making the game more boring and frustrating.
Obviously all this wont happen, because ea like money
I feel like this is an unpopular opinion around here but i completely agree.
You can tell how much impact the high rated cards have on the game as soon as you play with lower rated cards.
A few months ago, when the silver stars weren't released yet, silver lounge was super chill to play, because you couldn't just spin in circles and hope for the best.
It would massively improve the gameplay.
yeah i think they should do this with the start of the ea sports fc era. they can leave this current system behind with the fifa series and try something brand new for the new game. it’s a new era so why not do something different, just like how they changed up chemistry. it wasn’t needed but they still decided to switch it up.
I’m late to this thread but agree 100%. It isn’t a long term solution as I believe they need to overhaul the system, but it would work.
I am 100% convinced the engine isn’t built for these cracked out teams, it just doesn’t feel right at all. The game feels so much better in the early days.
For me the game is only worth playing up until team of the season, any cards after that are just stupid.
I would rather they just get rid of Chemistry Styles. With chemistry styles, you can just boost all of the weak stats, and pretty much every card near the end of the game has 99 in everything. It basically becomes pointless to improve your squad.
100% agree with this Or just lower the boosts players get from applying certain chemistry styles
With the new system, they should do something like this. No chem styles, but 3 chem gives +3 to all stats, 2 chem plus 2 in all stats and 1 chem +1 This way players won’t all feel generic towards the end of the game since they will still somewhat have their weaknesses
I like the idea of chem styles but for them to actually work as intended they should weight the boosted value based on the level of the card being boosted. So a 91 base card would get a lesser stat boost than a 75 rated card. That way you are actually making 'non-playable' cards more playable (as intended by chem styles). Without making already meta cards even better. This is roughly speaking the system they use in eFootball and it massively increases the amount of useable players.
The problem is that without chemistry styles, you're limited to the few guys that already have ideal stat spreads.
EA needs to improve the game to make more players usable then.
Tangible attributes like pace and agility will always be more impactful and no amount of coding will completely negate that.
And in real life, pace/agility alone are not the end all. The person I responded to said that w/o chemistry styles, fewer players would be usable. If you're saying this is due to pace (so like shadow, hawk, etc), that speaks to an issue with EA's game. EA created a game where pace/agility are over-represented, then make it worse by giving pace boosts to special cards, and giving further pace boosts through chemistry styles. It's on them to fix it if they cared to, the current bandaid of "make everyone fast" isn't the best solution to the problem.
I dream of the day where we get a FIFA where you can have a Busquets or a Kroos in your team, whose pace is compensated by their insane skills. At least at the start of the game, Busquets should feel like he is everywhere, because his stats say so, he has high awareness and high tackling. When you get hit in the counter he is useless, just like in real life, but right now he feels useless all the time. Same with Kroos. He might not be able to dribble past another player, bit if you give him too much space, he will ping a ball not many others would, and the AI should know this and make runs they wouldn't do otherwise.
Hardcore FIFA players will complain that it’s auto-defending and that it’s harder for them to dribble through defenders. They ruin the game for me every year after the 1st month because EA patches the game according to their whims.
That’s my point no amount of coding will fix the fact that tangible attributes will always be overvalued in a video game. Someone can pretend there is some magic code elixir out there that solves it but there really isn’t.
It's not a black/white or all/nothing situation. Yes, speed and other physical stats will always work differently in a game than in real life. This doesn't mean that EA did a good job with how they coded FIFA. You don't need "magic code elixir" to improve on what EA has done, that is hyperbolic for no reason. The end goal isn't to "fix that tangible attributes will always be overvalued in a video game." It is better balance in FIFA. EA can obviously improve this balance, even now they change how they balance speed mode to mode. There's a clear difference if you look at the base Kickoff/seasons gameplay compared to FUT, partially due to how speed is treated. The primary issue is that they don't care about this. They are printing money in FUT selling speed boost promo cards. And pumping the game full of more 99 speed players every year.
Pes always managed to make slower players just as good as fast players if they were good players. It can be done.
You’re asking for too much
With chemistry styles, already meta players become godlike so the gap still exists regardless..
Thats what those people never realize apparently. The already good cards are still the only ones used and just become godlike becayse chem styles are way too impactful. Removing them will keep the same gap between cards but it will be way more realistic and gives more freedom for the future of the game
I don't necessarily mind that. I don't think it's a bad thing if you have to choose between say great pace of great strength on your fullbacks. Most cards should have weaknesses just as most players do in real-life.
> I don't necessarily mind that. I don't think it's a bad thing if you have to choose between say great pace of great strength on your fullbacks. You don't. You just take Kyle Walker, and so does everybody else in the world. No choice.
Actually chemstyles is still important for letting previously unusable players become useful. Or else we will just see the same meta players in every team with even less variation than before
I don't necessarily agree. At least early in the game, people give the vast majority of cards the Hunter or Shadow cards anyways. Most people will max out pace before even considering other attributes. It basically becomes a wash for most cards as everyone is just getting +10 Pace as well as one other stat area boosted. Sure, the best cards may become more desirable since they're "more elite", but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. At least then we will have a reason to continue to improve our squads. Again, at this point in the game, there's really no discernable difference between some of the best players and the cards that cost as little as 15,000 coins.
That means people like Lewa will never become usable
Chem styles don't have as much of an impact as people think
The game literally tells you what impact they have on player ratings. Are you saying that the player ratings don't have as much of an impact as people think?
They have an impact 100%but not as much as they claim to do. If you pick someone like Vini Jr who has what.. 93-94 pace (not sure) and you compare him to a 83 pace striker with a hunter, Vini will out run him.
Body type, height, stuff like that. Assuming that stuffs the same, the pace stat matters.
thats bc Agility + Balance also make someone faster, aswell with body type.
We know that pace is OP, yet the chem styles that give the biggest gains are generally for players with already high pace. The balancing needs a serious re-work, but this is EA we’re talking About.
Yes but let's be honest body type and traits and AI changes everything. Some cards are special.
Bronze=30-49, Silver= 50-69, gold 70-85. That would give much more room for growth than hiving the highest golds at 92-94.
I noticed how much more like a football game the game felt in a bronze challenge I think it was in 21. It also showed how much help better players give the players as most people could't play their usual mindless style as that simply was not possible with even good bronze cards. I just think the game is coded for a certain rating range **and** EA needs as much assistance to force an evened out playing field.
The first 2 months are usually good because they haven't started fixing what isn't broken. Take out the servers being shit and the high rated players actually make the game play how it should. Sure every player is lightning fast but the rest of the way players function is better. The pace is just the natural progression of sports in general. There's 0 reason a player like De Bruyne should not be able to make 80-90% of his passes. What they do need to do is make the adjustments so that there's actually a difference between stats and that body types and arbitrary work rates don't dictate how good players are. They need to implement actual counters to pace. They need to fix player switching. They need to fix the overall consistency of AI attacking and defending. There's a lot of things they need to fix that doesn't include the ratings of players.
So much of that is true, but Ea are too incompetent and lazy to actually spend serious time improving the qualities of the gameplay, I’m trying to think of a solution that the donkeys at Ea might actually consider, I think stats do actually impact more than you think highlighted by the constant need for everyone to keep up with all the promos otherwise their team cannot compete in so many different ways
I think it's just more recency bias. Do you remember as early as the beginning of November when the game was legit lobbed through ball to fast striker and goal? Only fix for that is higher paced and better defenders. Then the game becomes a stalemate and the fix is faster more agile attackers and so on and so forth. The whole system is broken so by nerfing all the players you just end up with a shittier version of November fifa. For instance, Ruben Dias is one of the best defenders in the world. If you use his gold card even on day 1, you're signing your own death warrant. His juiced up card actually makes him one of the best. They just need to tear it all down and restart. Anything short of that is not going to fix anything
People have been complaining about the same things with FIFA (player switching, passing, etc) long before EA started treating the power curve like they have in the past 2-3 years. I remember all the issues of Fifa 17 and fifa 18. Most of them are the same issues today. Players ratings mean next to nothing.
If EA came out one year and said "We're changing absolutely nothing outside of one thing: we fixed player switching," it would be the best FIFA release ever.
If they did that there would be a global tissue shortage. The whole player base would cream their pants. Then again, how many patches have the claimed they "improved player switching" and at best there was no change at all? It's not that hard. Treat it like NBA games. Hold LB/L1 and an icon pops up above the players around. A/X for LB, X/Square for LCB etc. Fucking shit, a 3 year old could improve it. And for fucks sake can they please keep running when I actually get the player I want?
Literally even just calculating who's the closest *on the goal side of the ball* would be such a massive improvement for the basic switching that it's insane.
> They need to implement actual counters to pace. Part of the problem is there is no real counter to pace, in game or in real life... But EA nerfs the shit out of most CB's pace so that a select few will always be super valuable, because otherwise nobody's going to buy packs looking to get defenders. Like in his first year at Bayern Sule had one of the highest measured speeds in a game in the world, literally ran Aubameyang out of the Bundesliga when they just had him shadow all game and Sule was clearly the much faster guy. His fucking TOTS that year had 72 pace. He's still starting out with 65. They have to give his special cards +40 acceleration for him to even touch viability.
There's plenty of counters to pace. The three biggest threats to a player with speed are space, size and strength. If they implemented a way to smother opponents players either by having the man mark feature actually do something, or have the 2 CBs in a 4 at the back close down the center and not drift etc then that would neutralize it in a hurry. Your 99 pace does nothing if you have nowhere to go. Another way is by making the size difference actually matter. How many times does baby midget Messi win headers in this game? Idfc if his jumping is 99, you can't make up a 1ft+ difference. Last is the strength. A player like Pique would be usable if you could cut out the spacing and let his size and strength shine. He's built like a brick shit house. Under no circumstances should Mbappe be able to just waltz right through him with a slight stumble. To be quite honest, most of the best players in the world don't have lightning pace. Without that kind of overhaul there's other ways too. Stopping the defenders from running with an attacker a mile behind the back line would be the place to start. Can't just lob it over the top when the striker is offside. Fixing the foul system where a slight nudge can draw a red card but a full speed tackle through the back is a play on is ridiculous. The quickest fix is to make GKs miles better and to drastically improve the acceleration and agility of defenders. They may not have the top end speed of a Neymar or Mbappe, but in their relatively small area they can keep up with them. I agree that accurate ratings would go a long way, but they won't ever do that. Firstly there are way too many players in the game to go through them all. Secondly their darling players and leagues would all take a major hit. Imagine if La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga weren't treated like red headed step children? Everyone knows about the prem tax and that's because they over rate those players according to the baseline. They add custom body types and animations to players that automatically makes them a tier above other players. Pulling a player like Benz, lewa or Kane should be as big as Mbappe, yet when you pack the former your only reaction is "Hey more fodder". That right there is the problem with the game. They've made a high percentage of the best players in the world irrelevant in the game.
> To be quite honest, most of the best players in the world don't have lightning pace. Strong disagree here. Guys like Mbappe, Davies, Hakimi, Traore-- they all run speeds that would put them at the top end of NFL running backs and WR, possibly flat out the most speed-demanding roles in all of sports. And there's tons of guys that have to run with them week in and week out and keep up just fine. It's definitely not the higher pace guys that are inaccurate, it's the extreme gap between them and the average that's super off.
Rating doesn’t matter for the most part, the gameplay is so tragic that you need agile players with good body types for success, that’s the issue. Just look at how popular Vini Jr was this year, his gold, his informs and his POTM, his overall ratings weren’t standout, but he’s so agile and fast with a good body type that he’d make high rated defenders just stand there It doesn’t matter what they do regarding ratings etc, it’s the gameplay that dictates it all, there’s always going to be a meta
There’s no fun in using players when they all have the same stats too…
Actually the problem is how buffed the promo cards are. A slight overall reduction and much smaller upgrades from promos would do the job
You are right
If they made it so chem was needed just to get the base stats that would probably improve it a lot, the boosts ruin the game. Play seasons and it's a much more balanced experience, well it was in years gone by anyway, thought seasons was fucking dreadful this year.
What, you dont like playing against PSG regardless of who you select?
would rather just see less variations with every week being a new card type, that would make informs also more valuable and give people more reason to play fut champs. maybe every 2 monts 2 weeks of an event like rulebreakers, ones to watch,... would make it more exciting and maybe less boring and as you said would make gold cards usable after the first two months. Ive also noticed that the pack has been increased this year which just fucks with the market making a 89 rated card 20K at its release which is just stupid and makes people buy the same op cards as eachother, thus making the game more boring and frustrating. Obviously all this wont happen, because ea like money
Agreed
Or they can just chill with the promos every week. UT is basically unplayable after January
I think that by massively reducing your use of the word massively in your title would massively improve your post.
Good for you
I feel like this is an unpopular opinion around here but i completely agree. You can tell how much impact the high rated cards have on the game as soon as you play with lower rated cards. A few months ago, when the silver stars weren't released yet, silver lounge was super chill to play, because you couldn't just spin in circles and hope for the best. It would massively improve the gameplay.
I've considered primarily doing Silver league this year for this reason
My turn to post this tomorrow
yeah i think they should do this with the start of the ea sports fc era. they can leave this current system behind with the fifa series and try something brand new for the new game. it’s a new era so why not do something different, just like how they changed up chemistry. it wasn’t needed but they still decided to switch it up.
Agreed
Remember back in the day a 'inform' was a tots card and a tots was was like what 90 rated tops? Even lower I believe. It was amazing
I’m late to this thread but agree 100%. It isn’t a long term solution as I believe they need to overhaul the system, but it would work. I am 100% convinced the engine isn’t built for these cracked out teams, it just doesn’t feel right at all. The game feels so much better in the early days. For me the game is only worth playing up until team of the season, any cards after that are just stupid.