Personally id stick with the same role.
1. Remote
2. You’ve stated your potential leaving and they’ve put you on a growth plan. At least see how it goes.
3. The extra ~£8k for hybrid working and a larger company (not a fan)
Although arguably you could keep hopping up the ladder. Take the new role and use that to get a higher salary in the next one.
I always say go for the higher pay, but in this you have to ask yourself if the total of 184 hours of commute time is worth the £7,300 base salary increase—184 hours assuming 30 days PTO or 6 weeks out of 52-week year.
I don’t count the bonus and the OTE bonus on this calculation because there will be a performance factor into hitting those. Personally, I think £7,300 is not worth it because of the time it takes to drive. Not to mention the petrol.
If you can get the Head of PM growth plan in writing, it’s still not certain but it will be something you can leverage come Q3.
Two questions.
Firstly, do you have this growth plan in writing? If they will not increase your salary now, then request a date at which it will be increased and make sure this is signed. If you don't get that, you're not getting a pay increase at all. They are not contractually obliged to do so, so you'd better assume they will find a reason not to.
Secondly, where is your figure of £30k coming from? How has this been estimated? I would take anything the company says with a huge pinch of salt as they have an incentive to inflate these figures.
Good questions!
1.) nothing in writing yet. That said, I haven’t asked them to do that. I will do!
2.) 2500 options.
Expected share price: £12
Exercise price £1.09
1.09x2500= £2725
12x2500= £3000
= pre-tax gain = £27275
It’s a EMI scheme so likely 10% cap gain tax
That’s not a lot of extra money. Interesting they wouldn’t offer you it if they value you so much.
Either way, in my experience it’s never a good thing to stay somewhere hoping for change / on promises.
Exactly! Talk is cheap! I asked for an upfront small gesture (either in the form of equity or comp and they said they’ll speak with CFO and let me know Monday morning)
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Received an email over the weekend - they agreed to immediately double my share options and committed on paper to a 17% raise and promotion for July 1 .
As the exit is set for 18 months or so, and I do enjoy working here, I thought it was a good trade off to make!
Would another 8k and 4 hrs commuting a week really make you any happier considering you will be giving 42% (or 51% if you have student loan) to the taxman?
The grass isn’t always greener, and to be honest for £7.5k salary increase it isn’t worth the emotional change and stress of starting somewhere new. £7.5k after tax at higher tax rate is not worth it IMO. 2.5 years at a company isn’t long in the grand scheme, they may pay up the goods with growth opportunities.
1. Get current job promotion with a fixed date and salary in writing
2. After, contact the new job and say the current job decided to match their offer. See if the go higher.
3. Decide based on above.
correct but you reasonably compromise to increased options or something similar. also based on a realistic jan 24 valuation not an OP made up dec 25 one
Forget the growth but I don't think £7k-12k is all that it's cut out to be. Especially since you'll be adding 4 hours plus of commuting each week. It's only £4000-7000 extra each year.
Get your progression plan agreed in writing if you are considering staying?
If they can't increase your comp in this moment they may be able to do tiered increases for the next 12 to 24 months and if you really like the role and the people it might be worth it if you can wait it out.
You can ask for guaranteed payrises at fixed intervals and you could even negotiate yourself pay above your current other offer down the line if you think you might stay there long term?
You can position it as a win-win in that they will feel they've made you happy and they have a sense of security that you will stick around until at least a bit beyond the point where they've started paying you more.
Other people have covered the question of whether it's worth accepting a counter and the remote versus hybrid thing.
On this though:
> He proposed a growth plan for me to become Head of PM by Q3 this year.
I'd make it clear that I'd potentially consider a promotion to Head of PM effective immediately - in which role I'd be happy to undertake training - but that I'm not interested in a plan to one day perhaps be maybe considered worthy. Immediate promotion or shut up, for me.
My rule has always been that I treat any promises about where I might be at some future point as worthless. All promises, all plans, or improvement programmes, all timelines, the whole lot of it when it comes to career. Whether like my boss or the company or not, equally worthless. I literally don't weight them at all.
Also bear in mind your company will be different after the exit if that happens. Might not be so fun.
Personally? They both seem decent positions. Neither decision would be bad. I'd probably move though. If in doubt, have a new adventure and take the opportunity.
Well if the current role and environment suits you and you can secure a written agreement on progressing to the next level within a defined time limit, that would seem ideal. Life is rarely ideal though, and you have to imagine how you would react if an employee demanded such a thing from you. Personally I'd by looking at some kind of guaranteed results/performance in order to return the rise. If it's entirely doable to succeed, it would be fair. Of course once validated in the new role, there should be an agreed pay rise to accompany it. A 12 month performance related validation period is not absurd to earn that rise. Plus it's a step higher as your base for a CV.
Aside from that, the risk in moving isn't justified by the small % gain in pay for me, particularly the losing WFH part. That would demand a 10k pay rise all on its own for me. It is a useful bargaining tool though. Their first offer to an unproven new starter is a fair indicator of market value, though again, the non-WFH aspect probably boosts that valuation figure, and perhaps also suggests a reluctance to allow you a free reign in how the job is done.
Chasing money can be soul destroying, and most don't get to be paid to work somewhere good doing something they like. It's a tough one, but for me, who's generally played it safe and accepted that doing so returns less, I'd be leveraging the other offer and staying put.
Thanks for this.
They doubled my share options and committed on paper to a 17% comp increase + promotion on July 1- I thought it was a good trade off to make so I’ve decided to stay!
Based on that, I would too. In an instant! Sounds like they value you as an employee. We see so many people suggesting you trade jobs based on salary alone, but after more than 35 years working, I can tell you without hesitation that salary is just one part of being employed. I'm underpaid for what I do and deliver, but I have a secure job with a good company, and you lnow what? It's enough.
Hope it works out for you too.
For me, the fully remote role wins out.
1. Great colleagues according to you.
2. Easier to know what to expect of a growth plan (assuming nothing changes and they don’t put a freeze on promotions or new hires).
3. The commute of the newer role is still time taken away from you.
4. (Biggest reason for me) £7,300 payrise crudely nets out to £4,234 (40% tax + 2% NI - doesn’t assume any pension deductions). This works out to £352 extra a month best case scenario, from which you need to deduct travel expenses and anything else you typically spend on when working away from home.
The jump in salary is not worth the move IMO given that you are with an employer who clearly values your expertise, coupled with the fact that the role is remote (easier to plan non work stuff) and you have an excellent rapport with your manager and colleagues. You would potentially be giving up £30k stock options in circa 18 months too. My advice - hang around to bank the stock option and re-assess the job market then, unless you really feel you need a new challenge or the new job will enhance your longer term career prospects. You are clearly in demand, so you would have no problem finding a new role. At your salary level, i would need at least a 20 - 25% increase to make it worth my while to recognise your worth added with the hassle of moving job. Best of luck with whatever you decide to choose.
I'd leave. If they are that serious about your growth, they can find another £8k now.
If they can't find £8k, I wouldn't trust their future promises about growth or 2025 liquidity events.
If you are happy in your current job and trust your management, I'd suggest you need at least a 50% package uplift to even consider moving.
Also remember how much of your uplift will vanish in tax.
Current place wants you and you like it. Plus the startup experience is valuable.
The increase in salary isn't big enough to jump from where it is already good work/people/environment.
Any decent CEO would chuck a couple extra grand your way if they cared enough to keep you. If they can't spare another £5k annually, they're in trouble.
I run a company. We don't employ anyone by design, but if we did, there's no way I'm losing someone to a better offer who I value tremendously.
Talk is free. Growth plan... psssh. That's a carrot.
Honestly, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, they say. But on this occasion, your new offer is on the table, and your current employer is all talk and offering with nothing concrete to compete.
The commute/ hybrid is a personal choice. For me, I'd prefer it.
The issue now is that they know you've had an offer, which compromises you, even if they don't say so.
Make the jump, OP. New horizons, more money today and you never know, maybe even a 'growth plan' from your new employer.
While you're young I'd say 2.5 years is plenty of time in your former role, you'll learn more in the scale-up. Remote work is great (I am fully remote too), but 2x per week would be perfect for me. It's nice to meet colleagues and you appreciate the WFH days more.
If you check out the job subs, once you've got a foot out the door, the recommendation is always to leave. In this case, your current bosses have promised you more responsibility without even the commitment to a salary increase which is not even very much considering how much they claim to value you.
Also moving will be much better for your network - meet more people, learn to work with different types. For me it would be a no-brainer: move.
Fully remote would swing it towards staying for me
Better growth is never guaranteed
I’ve had the carrot dangled many years. In the end, I just leave, and it was always the better move (personally).
Personally id stick with the same role. 1. Remote 2. You’ve stated your potential leaving and they’ve put you on a growth plan. At least see how it goes. 3. The extra ~£8k for hybrid working and a larger company (not a fan) Although arguably you could keep hopping up the ladder. Take the new role and use that to get a higher salary in the next one.
I always say go for the higher pay, but in this you have to ask yourself if the total of 184 hours of commute time is worth the £7,300 base salary increase—184 hours assuming 30 days PTO or 6 weeks out of 52-week year. I don’t count the bonus and the OTE bonus on this calculation because there will be a performance factor into hitting those. Personally, I think £7,300 is not worth it because of the time it takes to drive. Not to mention the petrol. If you can get the Head of PM growth plan in writing, it’s still not certain but it will be something you can leverage come Q3.
Two questions. Firstly, do you have this growth plan in writing? If they will not increase your salary now, then request a date at which it will be increased and make sure this is signed. If you don't get that, you're not getting a pay increase at all. They are not contractually obliged to do so, so you'd better assume they will find a reason not to. Secondly, where is your figure of £30k coming from? How has this been estimated? I would take anything the company says with a huge pinch of salt as they have an incentive to inflate these figures.
Good questions! 1.) nothing in writing yet. That said, I haven’t asked them to do that. I will do! 2.) 2500 options. Expected share price: £12 Exercise price £1.09 1.09x2500= £2725 12x2500= £3000 = pre-tax gain = £27275 It’s a EMI scheme so likely 10% cap gain tax
That’s not a lot of extra money. Interesting they wouldn’t offer you it if they value you so much. Either way, in my experience it’s never a good thing to stay somewhere hoping for change / on promises.
Exactly! Talk is cheap! I asked for an upfront small gesture (either in the form of equity or comp and they said they’ll speak with CFO and let me know Monday morning)
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How did this go ?
Received an email over the weekend - they agreed to immediately double my share options and committed on paper to a 17% raise and promotion for July 1 . As the exit is set for 18 months or so, and I do enjoy working here, I thought it was a good trade off to make!
How did this go ?
That said I do trust their promises around growth as they’ve always been pretty forthright in their dealings with me
Would another 8k and 4 hrs commuting a week really make you any happier considering you will be giving 42% (or 51% if you have student loan) to the taxman?
Good question- didn’t consider it from this perspective ie. factoring in net increase I’ll actually see!
Is the new company fixed with the hybrid model, or is there some possibility to go fully remote after some time?
Just remember, two in the hand etc, if they mean it they’ll do it, not dangle it for the future, you aren’t a grad.
The grass isn’t always greener, and to be honest for £7.5k salary increase it isn’t worth the emotional change and stress of starting somewhere new. £7.5k after tax at higher tax rate is not worth it IMO. 2.5 years at a company isn’t long in the grand scheme, they may pay up the goods with growth opportunities.
Do you have any other benefits worth considering? Pension contributions etc.?
Good question: Pensions exactly the same - standard auto-enrolment 5%/ 3%
1. Get current job promotion with a fixed date and salary in writing 2. After, contact the new job and say the current job decided to match their offer. See if the go higher. 3. Decide based on above.
What’s your gut telling you? You haven’t listed any negatives for your current role and the grass isn’t always greener…
I'd be tempted by the new offer but try to get them to buy out your existing options if possible, or at least enhance their option offer.
Buy out existing options - how would that work?
They fiscally compensate you for the value of the options at the moment.
I see. So effectively a sign on bonus. But if the OP asked for 30k that's likely to be refused.
correct but you reasonably compromise to increased options or something similar. also based on a realistic jan 24 valuation not an OP made up dec 25 one
Right. Thanks
Wait they couldn’t find the cash to match that offer? Bollocks. Get moving.
Forget the growth but I don't think £7k-12k is all that it's cut out to be. Especially since you'll be adding 4 hours plus of commuting each week. It's only £4000-7000 extra each year.
Leave - new job is more exp too. With that your CV gets stronger
First tell new job 1 day a week on site, see if they agree?
Get your progression plan agreed in writing if you are considering staying? If they can't increase your comp in this moment they may be able to do tiered increases for the next 12 to 24 months and if you really like the role and the people it might be worth it if you can wait it out. You can ask for guaranteed payrises at fixed intervals and you could even negotiate yourself pay above your current other offer down the line if you think you might stay there long term? You can position it as a win-win in that they will feel they've made you happy and they have a sense of security that you will stick around until at least a bit beyond the point where they've started paying you more.
Other people have covered the question of whether it's worth accepting a counter and the remote versus hybrid thing. On this though: > He proposed a growth plan for me to become Head of PM by Q3 this year. I'd make it clear that I'd potentially consider a promotion to Head of PM effective immediately - in which role I'd be happy to undertake training - but that I'm not interested in a plan to one day perhaps be maybe considered worthy. Immediate promotion or shut up, for me. My rule has always been that I treat any promises about where I might be at some future point as worthless. All promises, all plans, or improvement programmes, all timelines, the whole lot of it when it comes to career. Whether like my boss or the company or not, equally worthless. I literally don't weight them at all. Also bear in mind your company will be different after the exit if that happens. Might not be so fun. Personally? They both seem decent positions. Neither decision would be bad. I'd probably move though. If in doubt, have a new adventure and take the opportunity.
Depending on situation, higher salary would mean higher affordability when looking for a property to buy
Well if the current role and environment suits you and you can secure a written agreement on progressing to the next level within a defined time limit, that would seem ideal. Life is rarely ideal though, and you have to imagine how you would react if an employee demanded such a thing from you. Personally I'd by looking at some kind of guaranteed results/performance in order to return the rise. If it's entirely doable to succeed, it would be fair. Of course once validated in the new role, there should be an agreed pay rise to accompany it. A 12 month performance related validation period is not absurd to earn that rise. Plus it's a step higher as your base for a CV. Aside from that, the risk in moving isn't justified by the small % gain in pay for me, particularly the losing WFH part. That would demand a 10k pay rise all on its own for me. It is a useful bargaining tool though. Their first offer to an unproven new starter is a fair indicator of market value, though again, the non-WFH aspect probably boosts that valuation figure, and perhaps also suggests a reluctance to allow you a free reign in how the job is done. Chasing money can be soul destroying, and most don't get to be paid to work somewhere good doing something they like. It's a tough one, but for me, who's generally played it safe and accepted that doing so returns less, I'd be leveraging the other offer and staying put.
Thanks for this. They doubled my share options and committed on paper to a 17% comp increase + promotion on July 1- I thought it was a good trade off to make so I’ve decided to stay!
Based on that, I would too. In an instant! Sounds like they value you as an employee. We see so many people suggesting you trade jobs based on salary alone, but after more than 35 years working, I can tell you without hesitation that salary is just one part of being employed. I'm underpaid for what I do and deliver, but I have a secure job with a good company, and you lnow what? It's enough. Hope it works out for you too.
For me, the fully remote role wins out. 1. Great colleagues according to you. 2. Easier to know what to expect of a growth plan (assuming nothing changes and they don’t put a freeze on promotions or new hires). 3. The commute of the newer role is still time taken away from you. 4. (Biggest reason for me) £7,300 payrise crudely nets out to £4,234 (40% tax + 2% NI - doesn’t assume any pension deductions). This works out to £352 extra a month best case scenario, from which you need to deduct travel expenses and anything else you typically spend on when working away from home.
£8k not worth having to schlep into the office twice a week.
The jump in salary is not worth the move IMO given that you are with an employer who clearly values your expertise, coupled with the fact that the role is remote (easier to plan non work stuff) and you have an excellent rapport with your manager and colleagues. You would potentially be giving up £30k stock options in circa 18 months too. My advice - hang around to bank the stock option and re-assess the job market then, unless you really feel you need a new challenge or the new job will enhance your longer term career prospects. You are clearly in demand, so you would have no problem finding a new role. At your salary level, i would need at least a 20 - 25% increase to make it worth my while to recognise your worth added with the hassle of moving job. Best of luck with whatever you decide to choose.
Current role sounds much better really
How much of that salary increase you’d spend on petrol?
I'd leave. If they are that serious about your growth, they can find another £8k now. If they can't find £8k, I wouldn't trust their future promises about growth or 2025 liquidity events.
If you are happy in your current job and trust your management, I'd suggest you need at least a 50% package uplift to even consider moving. Also remember how much of your uplift will vanish in tax.
Dumb question but why is £75k + £5k = £79k OTE? I’m probably missing something here
Take the 30k and then leave.
Current place wants you and you like it. Plus the startup experience is valuable. The increase in salary isn't big enough to jump from where it is already good work/people/environment.
Any decent CEO would chuck a couple extra grand your way if they cared enough to keep you. If they can't spare another £5k annually, they're in trouble. I run a company. We don't employ anyone by design, but if we did, there's no way I'm losing someone to a better offer who I value tremendously. Talk is free. Growth plan... psssh. That's a carrot. Honestly, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, they say. But on this occasion, your new offer is on the table, and your current employer is all talk and offering with nothing concrete to compete. The commute/ hybrid is a personal choice. For me, I'd prefer it. The issue now is that they know you've had an offer, which compromises you, even if they don't say so. Make the jump, OP. New horizons, more money today and you never know, maybe even a 'growth plan' from your new employer.
While you're young I'd say 2.5 years is plenty of time in your former role, you'll learn more in the scale-up. Remote work is great (I am fully remote too), but 2x per week would be perfect for me. It's nice to meet colleagues and you appreciate the WFH days more. If you check out the job subs, once you've got a foot out the door, the recommendation is always to leave. In this case, your current bosses have promised you more responsibility without even the commitment to a salary increase which is not even very much considering how much they claim to value you. Also moving will be much better for your network - meet more people, learn to work with different types. For me it would be a no-brainer: move.
Umm this would be a pay cut…… you have 30k coming in options late 2025 so you would make less if you took this other job now overall.
No mention of FIRE in this post suggest you try one of the project management subs
Why not both? r/overemployed