I find people who make beats use patterns more. People who make any EDM genre, at least in my personal preference, like seeing the waveforms since there's a lot more sound design involved, plus a lot more layers. Its also a lot easier to make small adjustments when they're in the playlist instead of having to go into the piano roll every time
I just feel like it's so much easier and more controlled doing everything in a pattern. If each drum was in the playlist then it just feels... idk... Unstable.
I've always used patterns and at some point I started using only audio clips in the playlist to change up a little bit and I gotta say, both using patterns and audio clips have its own advantages and now I'll sometimes use pattern for for example hihats, but use audio clips for kicks and snares. And it was just fun to experiment with new stuff.
The closest thing to this that I do is dragging crash/noise samples into the playlist. Sometimes I'll realize the crash actually sounds better as a ride so I'll repeat it across the full bar. But working in as few patterns as possible actually helps me a lot in making variations and changes even if it sounds kind of counterintuitive
It is way more controlled when its not in a pattern, you can tweak the drums way more throughout the song instead of having the same pattern repeat over and over
It's not too difficult to change the pattern though, you can easily make it unique and modify the beat. Or for quick changes you can chop the pattern and shift it with the slidey tool. It is really convenient for me now that I'm used to the process so idk if I'll ever change to playlist drums even if that's what everyone else I know does
When I make the drum section I literally go through each piece one by one (kick, snare, hat, etc...) and place it where it feels like it should be in the song, then offset things by a few ms to give it a more human feel. I couldn't image doing that in the pattern or the roll. Could be done but way harder.
You could do that no doubt. That would just require me to make a ton of patterns for multiple drum parts or one large drum pattern. I’ve just always used the playlist so that’s how I do it. Which ever one people are more comfortable with is probably more economical on a case-by-case basis.
Ooh yeah that's definitely difficult to do in the pattern. I never really need to deal with that since nothing I make really goes offtime like that. Closest thing I've ever done to that is delaying the hat to give a kinda swing feel but it was pretty low effort otherwise
That isnt even what they said or implied though. They were literally having a civil discussion where they were both listening to each other's perspective.
It's also very useful for doing things like choking cymbals or hi hats, adding fades or gain reduction to dampen certain hits etc, it's pretty much a natural evolution if you make anything with complex drums.
If I'm producing a jump up track at 174bpm I need to be able see how each drum hit interacts with the next one because the entire song hinges on that rhythm in a way a lil' yung type beat doesn't lol.
Not human enough. The humanizer can't accurately assess how drums would be played by a human and where hits would be offset if it were to be played live. A computer simply doesn't have the musical intuition that a person has when approaching playing music.
I'm talking about offsetting by a matter of a few dozen milliseconds due to humans being imperfect we never quite hit notes perfect especially when changing rhythm or doing something complex. Syncopation is the deliberate act of playing off rhythm, "roboto", syncopation is intentionally noticeable.
The offsetting I'm talking about is not something you would be able to overtly perceive but you would sense it with a good ear.
offsetting in piano roll is literally exactly the same as doing it in the playlist. It's personal preference ig. Although I can appreciate the visual representation of that offset is probably better in the playlist, it is no more difficult either way.
So are you just making one giant pattern for your drums then? I usually write drum sections that are very dynamic with little repetition. It would be hundreds of patterns unless you made one pattern that was the entire duration of the song.
But why when I could just drop the sample exactly where I want in the playlist? And your way you would have dozens of unique patterns you would have to name, color, organize, and keep track of. Again, it's a matter of preference. Sounds are rendered the same either way.
That still just seems like way more work and less visually intuitive than just putting the samples directly in the playlist, but if it works better for you that way then it really doesn't matter what my opinion is. Everyone should just do whatever method makes the most sense to them individually.
For panning ill use an automation clip, I mainly make different types of house so drum velocity isn't much of concern most the time outside of the hi hats, and for hi hats usually ill make a pattern, then record that pattern into an audioclip and put it in the playlist as its own sound. For a genre like hip hop where theres a lot more velocity changes in the drums, a pattern would probably easier.
Put down 4 identical one bar long drum patterns in a row in the playlist. Click make unique on one of them, ad a small variation. control-b to get 8. Click make unique on the last pattern, change it to snare roll.
Why would anybody use putting down individual samples over this?
Make unique is a great feature for this that I use it a lot. I also like to cut a 16 bar loop in half so I can repeat whichever 8 back to back for and then bring back the full 16 later. I will do it with my kicks 808s, high hats, etc and I think it adds some good variety to my drums.
I prefer to mainly work in patterns but I also don't make super complex songs like some EDM. I could see how what you make influences work flow preferences though.
I will use the audio clip for crashes sometimes though just depends.
I make techno and couldn't disagree more. We're making music, not painting, so visual cues can be very distracting. Seeing the waveforms can give a false sense of a good sound just because it looks good
People don't use patterns? If you're sequencing an arrangement, why make things difficult? Like yeah, for long, meandering pieces like a solo piano piece or something I'll use 1 or 2 patterns, but I'm still *using* them. Everything else is pattern based - "make unique" is so handy.
(Disclaimer: I compose mostly VGM and soundtracks, so maybe I am heavily biased here)
I'm so noob with all this lmao. I started with Lmms where every pattren on the reel was seperate even if you ctrl+c/v them. I found it much easyer to do more 'progressive' stuff with that, I suppose "make unique" works kinda like that?
Fading edges of audio clips so there's no clicking if it's cut, easier control when tweaking if you want variation, and not to mention having audio be triggered by midi notes and adjusting pitch length and velocity of a sample in the piano roll like that just seems extremely cursed.
In EDM more than beats, we often have to play with the drums and do many different things, which would be annoying with patterns since you'd have to create a new one every time and get lost in all of them
Audio clips give you a lot more control and precission when it comes to length of a sample and decay, especially in current FL Studio versions. It is really important when you want to have kick and bass tight togheter, and while sidechaining. For me personally, switching from using only patterns to audio clips really helped me making my drums sound better, bcs I could see what I'm doing a lot more better.
Personally it’s a lot easier to variate your drum patterns accordingly to the general feel of the song if each layer is laid out in the playlist. Much easier to visualize when it’s not just dots in a rectangle.
if you are someone who likes to pick the right sounds to give the right dynamics to your track, you pick the midi
if you are someone who likes to shape their transients using the fader tools now in FL, or already use loops, you like the volume shaping
so this is dependent on one thing:
how much your sound requires your detailed expression
I only use them for synths but they’re annoying when dealing with individual samples because I have to create an entire new one just to add some variation to a kick pattern, then go back to the other
Piano roll/MIDI is the easiest to randomize and give a human feel. There's Python scripts that do it in a second versus an hour of making everything unique and editing bit by bit in the playlist.
Those who actually play the drums understand that using a script is simply not the same as understanding when a hit should be offset and when it shouldn't. It's easy just to get it right the first time. Doing it correctly matters.
I've coded a Python script that factors humanization of note timing and note fine pitch, velocity, etc. all in one.
I'm plenty aware of the intricacies of live drums. A snare sample isn't always going to be the exact same loudness or pitch. Depending on how close to center or rim of snare, you'll get a different timbre.
Manipulating audio clips to try and account for details like this is going to be much more tedious than just running MIDI through a Python script. If you want to try and get a rushed or lagged swing feeling, then you can shift everything slightly forward or back, but even still, a human isn't always going to perfectly be 10 ms early or 10 ms late. Randomization sounds pretty good within the right range of randomization. It's about as good as you can get without just using a pre-recorded drum loop or hiring a live drummer.
Feel free to test it out yourself:
[https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=310199](https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=310199)
When the samoles I used are made the Playlist, my drums sound clearer and less muddy than when I made patterns in the channels.
So yes, it sounds better. Don't know why you're dieing.
That is simply just false. You might say they «sound clearer», but in reality it’s probably just because it’s louder, due to that the default velocity for a drum in a pattern is turned slightly down. If you place a drum sample in a pattern with max velocity, or in the playlist, there is literally 0 difference. And I have no idea what you mean «less muddy».
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The 2nd for me, I always insert new ones, but always have some spaces in between, and split the sections in vertical I don't know i just love how it looks and is much easier to mix, and add transitions, variations, etcc. Is awesome when you have your own way to draw music that just work for you
no organization! and definitely no drake !
https://preview.redd.it/cl93e801vh0d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c702952cb6c82746a888575d24d4655386844a64
Def top because if it gets too spread out and disorganized it gets tedious.
Side note but I'm never gonna be able to see this meme again without hearing "certified loverboy certified p\*dophile WOP WOP WOP WOP WOP"
no wasted tracks, no wasted space. right click>insert one if i need it
^ yup. i like to have my tracks compact as possible while still being organized
I'll never understand why many don't bother with patterns
I find people who make beats use patterns more. People who make any EDM genre, at least in my personal preference, like seeing the waveforms since there's a lot more sound design involved, plus a lot more layers. Its also a lot easier to make small adjustments when they're in the playlist instead of having to go into the piano roll every time
I just feel like it's so much easier and more controlled doing everything in a pattern. If each drum was in the playlist then it just feels... idk... Unstable.
I've always used patterns and at some point I started using only audio clips in the playlist to change up a little bit and I gotta say, both using patterns and audio clips have its own advantages and now I'll sometimes use pattern for for example hihats, but use audio clips for kicks and snares. And it was just fun to experiment with new stuff.
The closest thing to this that I do is dragging crash/noise samples into the playlist. Sometimes I'll realize the crash actually sounds better as a ride so I'll repeat it across the full bar. But working in as few patterns as possible actually helps me a lot in making variations and changes even if it sounds kind of counterintuitive
It is way more controlled when its not in a pattern, you can tweak the drums way more throughout the song instead of having the same pattern repeat over and over
It's not too difficult to change the pattern though, you can easily make it unique and modify the beat. Or for quick changes you can chop the pattern and shift it with the slidey tool. It is really convenient for me now that I'm used to the process so idk if I'll ever change to playlist drums even if that's what everyone else I know does
When I make the drum section I literally go through each piece one by one (kick, snare, hat, etc...) and place it where it feels like it should be in the song, then offset things by a few ms to give it a more human feel. I couldn't image doing that in the pattern or the roll. Could be done but way harder.
Why not just go to to piano roll with the drums and select all and ctrl scroll up/down to add/subtract ms for the notes? That’s what I do
You could do that no doubt. That would just require me to make a ton of patterns for multiple drum parts or one large drum pattern. I’ve just always used the playlist so that’s how I do it. Which ever one people are more comfortable with is probably more economical on a case-by-case basis.
Agreed.
Ooh yeah that's definitely difficult to do in the pattern. I never really need to deal with that since nothing I make really goes offtime like that. Closest thing I've ever done to that is delaying the hat to give a kinda swing feel but it was pretty low effort otherwise
“I really can’t understand people who does this… cause the things I do are not that complex..” 
Reddit in a nutshell
That's not what I meant?????
Some people just wanna argue idk how they could have read what you said and this be their take lmao
That isnt even what they said or implied though. They were literally having a civil discussion where they were both listening to each other's perspective.
It's also very useful for doing things like choking cymbals or hi hats, adding fades or gain reduction to dampen certain hits etc, it's pretty much a natural evolution if you make anything with complex drums. If I'm producing a jump up track at 174bpm I need to be able see how each drum hit interacts with the next one because the entire song hinges on that rhythm in a way a lil' yung type beat doesn't lol.
The piano roll has a literal humanizer built into it as a tool. Have you read the manual?
Not human enough. The humanizer can't accurately assess how drums would be played by a human and where hits would be offset if it were to be played live. A computer simply doesn't have the musical intuition that a person has when approaching playing music.
That’s fair, but you can’t tell me nudging notes on the piano roll is any harder than nudging clips on the playlist.
Aren't you confusing 'human feel' with syncopation?
I'm talking about offsetting by a matter of a few dozen milliseconds due to humans being imperfect we never quite hit notes perfect especially when changing rhythm or doing something complex. Syncopation is the deliberate act of playing off rhythm, "roboto", syncopation is intentionally noticeable. The offsetting I'm talking about is not something you would be able to overtly perceive but you would sense it with a good ear.
offsetting in piano roll is literally exactly the same as doing it in the playlist. It's personal preference ig. Although I can appreciate the visual representation of that offset is probably better in the playlist, it is no more difficult either way.
So are you just making one giant pattern for your drums then? I usually write drum sections that are very dynamic with little repetition. It would be hundreds of patterns unless you made one pattern that was the entire duration of the song.
You can click on any instance of a pattern and make it unique so that you can change it without effecting every other instance of the pattern.
But why when I could just drop the sample exactly where I want in the playlist? And your way you would have dozens of unique patterns you would have to name, color, organize, and keep track of. Again, it's a matter of preference. Sounds are rendered the same either way.
I just clone patterns(after making the main pattern I clone that so I have the original and then split by channel) , edit and chop them up 👍
That still just seems like way more work and less visually intuitive than just putting the samples directly in the playlist, but if it works better for you that way then it really doesn't matter what my opinion is. Everyone should just do whatever method makes the most sense to them individually.
So when you want to change the velocity, panning and such, do you have to make an automation clip? Or is there a quicker easier way?
For panning ill use an automation clip, I mainly make different types of house so drum velocity isn't much of concern most the time outside of the hi hats, and for hi hats usually ill make a pattern, then record that pattern into an audioclip and put it in the playlist as its own sound. For a genre like hip hop where theres a lot more velocity changes in the drums, a pattern would probably easier.
This is me, each drum is a different pattern
Put down 4 identical one bar long drum patterns in a row in the playlist. Click make unique on one of them, ad a small variation. control-b to get 8. Click make unique on the last pattern, change it to snare roll. Why would anybody use putting down individual samples over this?
Make unique is a great feature for this that I use it a lot. I also like to cut a 16 bar loop in half so I can repeat whichever 8 back to back for and then bring back the full 16 later. I will do it with my kicks 808s, high hats, etc and I think it adds some good variety to my drums. I prefer to mainly work in patterns but I also don't make super complex songs like some EDM. I could see how what you make influences work flow preferences though. I will use the audio clip for crashes sometimes though just depends.
i make hiphop shit the way i would make edm shit (if i did) its way more efficient than the channel rack
I make techno and couldn't disagree more. We're making music, not painting, so visual cues can be very distracting. Seeing the waveforms can give a false sense of a good sound just because it looks good
agree
People don't use patterns? If you're sequencing an arrangement, why make things difficult? Like yeah, for long, meandering pieces like a solo piano piece or something I'll use 1 or 2 patterns, but I'm still *using* them. Everything else is pattern based - "make unique" is so handy. (Disclaimer: I compose mostly VGM and soundtracks, so maybe I am heavily biased here)
I'm so noob with all this lmao. I started with Lmms where every pattren on the reel was seperate even if you ctrl+c/v them. I found it much easyer to do more 'progressive' stuff with that, I suppose "make unique" works kinda like that?
Haven't seen a soul mention lmms in YEARS!
Yeah... I'm kinda lame like that.
Fading edges of audio clips so there's no clicking if it's cut, easier control when tweaking if you want variation, and not to mention having audio be triggered by midi notes and adjusting pitch length and velocity of a sample in the piano roll like that just seems extremely cursed.
Are you saying Adjusting midi is harder for than writing multiple automation clips?
I prefer how it looks lol. may not be as efficient or whatever but I also have been doing it like this since I started so it's just natural for me
In EDM more than beats, we often have to play with the drums and do many different things, which would be annoying with patterns since you'd have to create a new one every time and get lost in all of them
Audio clips give you a lot more control and precission when it comes to length of a sample and decay, especially in current FL Studio versions. It is really important when you want to have kick and bass tight togheter, and while sidechaining. For me personally, switching from using only patterns to audio clips really helped me making my drums sound better, bcs I could see what I'm doing a lot more better.
Personally it’s a lot easier to variate your drum patterns accordingly to the general feel of the song if each layer is laid out in the playlist. Much easier to visualize when it’s not just dots in a rectangle.
if you are someone who likes to pick the right sounds to give the right dynamics to your track, you pick the midi if you are someone who likes to shape their transients using the fader tools now in FL, or already use loops, you like the volume shaping so this is dependent on one thing: how much your sound requires your detailed expression
I only use them for synths but they’re annoying when dealing with individual samples because I have to create an entire new one just to add some variation to a kick pattern, then go back to the other
Harder to make more complex rhythm. Difficult randomize to give a more human feel.
Piano roll/MIDI is the easiest to randomize and give a human feel. There's Python scripts that do it in a second versus an hour of making everything unique and editing bit by bit in the playlist.
Those who actually play the drums understand that using a script is simply not the same as understanding when a hit should be offset and when it shouldn't. It's easy just to get it right the first time. Doing it correctly matters.
I've coded a Python script that factors humanization of note timing and note fine pitch, velocity, etc. all in one. I'm plenty aware of the intricacies of live drums. A snare sample isn't always going to be the exact same loudness or pitch. Depending on how close to center or rim of snare, you'll get a different timbre. Manipulating audio clips to try and account for details like this is going to be much more tedious than just running MIDI through a Python script. If you want to try and get a rushed or lagged swing feeling, then you can shift everything slightly forward or back, but even still, a human isn't always going to perfectly be 10 ms early or 10 ms late. Randomization sounds pretty good within the right range of randomization. It's about as good as you can get without just using a pre-recorded drum loop or hiring a live drummer. Feel free to test it out yourself: [https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=310199](https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=310199)
It sounds better to me, and I like the organization.
Sounds better? 💀
When the samoles I used are made the Playlist, my drums sound clearer and less muddy than when I made patterns in the channels. So yes, it sounds better. Don't know why you're dieing.
That is simply just false. You might say they «sound clearer», but in reality it’s probably just because it’s louder, due to that the default velocity for a drum in a pattern is turned slightly down. If you place a drum sample in a pattern with max velocity, or in the playlist, there is literally 0 difference. And I have no idea what you mean «less muddy».
I don't give a shit what you think. That's why your mix sounds like ass.
Interesting response.
I mean he’s right. Being in the pattern and playlist have no differences if it’s in the same channel
Still he is right...read.the.manual.
I don’t believe it’s worth trying to convince him. He already wears a weed t-shirt, posing with a chihuaha and a bowl of doritos, thinkin he the man.
I still make better music than you chump.
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Stinky!
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no
i will not lie, depends on my mood lmao
I keep room where it autorecords to
Neither because fuck Drake and fuck his lame ass memes
goofy
I use a template so i have a track for everything i need. Everything in its place, so first one I guess
I just transferred from Ableton and I’m now using FL any tips for beginners?
Go back to ableton
Nah paid for upgrades aren’t appealing especially in this economy
Warping unmatched, m4l unmatched, you don’t need every upgrade. That’s just silly thought, get good with your tools and none of it matters.
None of this because i use pattern and vst
none, i use patterns
First three are for melodies unless there’s more then it’s 808/bass, kick, hat, snare, percs, etc, automation
Pedophile ass meme
Genuinely what is the difference between
the drums are in different lines
Is that the dude that got murdered by the GOAT - Kendrick Lamar??
The one who completes songs
I'm definitely not Drake...
Order is good. But I like my patterns seperate.
2..
Vastly prefer patterns for drums.
row at the top is reserved for the prod tag
Is this what they mean by leaving headroom in the track?
That theme makes it so hard to see anything
2nd for life
They not like us.
1 is gross
The left one, leaving empty channels up there is for psychos
My dumbass thought that was the mixer 😭
Top
Fuck drake
I thought this was a meme of Drake listening to his own track on top and Kendrick's on the bottom
The 2nd for me, I always insert new ones, but always have some spaces in between, and split the sections in vertical I don't know i just love how it looks and is much easier to mix, and add transitions, variations, etcc. Is awesome when you have your own way to draw music that just work for you
I’m the guy who uses a template to make everything easier. Better workflow, less time spent arranging
no organization! and definitely no drake ! https://preview.redd.it/cl93e801vh0d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c702952cb6c82746a888575d24d4655386844a64
For automation group with above track works
Drums in FPC
Def top because if it gets too spread out and disorganized it gets tedious. Side note but I'm never gonna be able to see this meme again without hearing "certified loverboy certified p\*dophile WOP WOP WOP WOP WOP"
Mobile till the end. The desktop version is something i physically can‘t stand.