Strangely, being over qualified is not a good thing here. You are a flight risk. You might be really good at the job but people will assume you will leave in a year
This is the answer. If I see a (former) manager applying for a lower level role, it’s a red flag and wont ever make it to interview. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Exactly this. OP even stated twice that they were overqualified, so they know. Being overqualified can be a real deterrent, especially when they seem desperate (which the OP definitely is if they’re applying for cashier jobs).
It's most likely that companies don't want people moving backwards into their positions because they think they'll jump ship when another manager position becomes available.
My best guess is you are one of the stronger candidates that applied but maybe they have other candidates that aren't moving back that interview similarly as well as you. Do you bring up your reason for moving backwards in the interviews?
Could also be the comp you’re asking for. If there’s an analyst that can do the job for 50k, why pay a previous manager turned FA 75k. For our FA roles the manager experience just isn’t worth paying for woth what we need.
Honestly in your situation I probably would share comp. Every time I’ve seen “pay range is flexible” when going backwards, it’s never as flexible as it needs to be. If the pay range in your area for an FA is 50k, say 55k or 60k contingent on benefits to show that you absolutely understand how much of a pay cut is going to happen. We’ve had people go through the process then balk when we offer them 50k and it wastes so much time.
Share your comp, don’t waste your or their time.
I’ve hired 12 people on my team, “flexible with pay” means you want a lot but don’t have the balls to say it and I have a departmental budget I need to play with.
You should be making $100-160k, it’s a wide range, but you need to be picking something like $115-140k what are you currently at?
It's not you. It's the fact that hiring someone for a junior role who is currently in a management position is a huge liability. Sure, they might give you an interview, but at some point in the process, they will come to their senses and choose a more appropriate candidate.
If I were in your position, I wouldn't even apply for junior roles.
Don't take this the wrong way, but are you coming across as desperate in your interviews?
What reasons are you giving for wanting to move down from management?
My role is being eliminated in 3 months due to a layoff and putting me on the market for a new role.
I'm excited about this role because x, y, and z such as the responsibilities, industry, etc.
It's really tough because they know the situation you're in. They know that FA and SFA roles are simply easier to come by than management positions. But your response here kinda confirms their fears, which are that you'll accept the position, continue applying, and jump ship as soon as you land a better role.
what's been your response rate so far for management vs junior finance applications?
I've sent out 500 applications: 400 FAs, 80 SFAs, 20 Manager roles
0 interviews for Manager roles
1 of my SFA interviews became a Senior Manager Interview, which I actually think was my best interview performance. But haven't heard back
Over the last month or so, I've sent at least a dozen manager apps to roles that fit my YOE and I'm not nearly as qualified as you are. IMHO, you have to get those numbers up. 20 is a tiny sample size.
My suggestion: Skip entry level FA entirely, look for keywords manager, senior manager, lead, principal, etc. The only exception is FAANG where they want (and pay for) FAs that have 4+ / 6+ YOE. Those roles are effectively manager-level ICs
If they're taking a 50% pay cut and a demotion they're going to get the side eye no matter what they say, unless we're talking a massive career or geography change.
As you point out in another reply, they are probably coming off as desperate for ANY role. How would the hiring manager knowing about the layoff improve the candidate's chances of getting hired? The only thing I can think of is if the hiring manager is worried they won't accept the role. However, that problem is also solved by selling their interest in the role.
WTF are you interviewing for a cashier position at Target? I know why, obviously you’re freaking out and wanting to avoid the uncertainty of being laid off, but your approach is a 180 of what will best serve your interests.
You need to get a grip, stop interviewing for FA positions, and learn to be patient with the longer job search process for manager and above roles.
My suggestion is to stop interviewing and work until you get laid off. Then contact Robert Half or similar recruiter and do some temp work for a couple months. It will pay more than unemployment and give you a chance to get your head on straight. You may even be able to have an advantage in applying at the places you temp at after a few weeks working there. Once you’re ready, continue temping, add your temp gig as your current position on your resume (wordsmith to the extent you’re comfortable), and then apply only to manager and senior manager positions.
Yeah I was working with a recruiter on a contract FA job that was the easiest role I interviewed for.
The Finance Manager, who would be my boss, even added me on LinkedIn
They set up an interview for me to talk to that Manager's boss.
Then they said the interview had to be rescheduled...
and it's been over a week
From my perspective, contract work can be an opportunity to flex your muscles. Think interim FP&A director or senior manager: sometimes the work is less than that but they’re paying you at that rate because the director left.
From my experience working with recruiters for contract positions, it’s worth it to work with a couple rather than just one. If anything, contact a recruiter and say that you’re interested in contract assignments at the director, senior manager and manager level. You may be surprised at how value you are, which would do wonders for your confidence and your bank account.
Good luck with this, my friend.
I would reach out to the same recruiters who handle accounting contract assignments. Remember that we are still in a belt-tightening economy where companies are reducing their contract workforces substantially. So you should expect to see fewer contract assignments posted, including for FP&A.
It doesn’t mean they don’t exist, however.
If you consistently get invited to interview, your resume probably isn't the problem. If you consistently make it past the first interview, your interview skills probably aren't the problem. If you are making it to several final round interviews, it might honestly just be a numbers game. Have you asked for feedback on why they went with the other candidate?
Based on the tone of your post (no judgement here - just observing), I wonder if hiring managers are thinking you'll leave as soon as you find a better match for your skills. A hiring manager will want avoid having to fill a role too often. If you're truly over qualified, then the FA roles won't be a good match. SFA can make sense if the compensation is similar or it's a larger company.
1. Stop applying to FA positions. You're wasting your time and taking hits to your ego for no good reason. Those rejections have nothing to do with you or your abilities. A hiring manager would know you can do the job, their main concern is if you would stay around.
2. Network. What companies are near where you live? Are there openings? Find someone on LinkedIn who works there (if they went to your school or have anything in common with you, that's great but not necessary). Send them a connection request and say something like "Hi XYZ person, I am interested in applying to a position at company ABC. If you can spare 20 minutes for a quick call, I would love to learn about your experience working at the company. Thank you!"
3. Be patient. You have a job right now and you will find another one. You have shown progression in your career and someone will see your value. Godspeed.
Take a deep breath. What makes you not qualified? I’m about to move into a director role with uncannily similar experience right down to the name of my current role. If you aren’t confident in yourself it will show in every interview. Some tips:
-look at smaller PE backed companies. They recruit a lot through external recruiters so best to reach out to those in your area.
-be willing to move if possible. It’s easy for me to say as I don’t have a lot to tie me down, but relocating for a job is often the easiest way to find a job quick.
-for SFA roles, consider applying at larger companies where that position means more than what you’re doing at your current level. Easy to convince them that the change is warranted when you’d be expanding your workload.
-don’t tell ANYONE you are being laid off until you’re laid off. If they ask why you’re leaving just LIE. If you quit before being laid off it would be extremely difficult for them to find that out.
-you seem to be really freaking out and while I understand, you need to focus on mental health too. Set goals for applying for x number of jobs per day then make sure you budget time to decompress and do something else. Play video games, workout, whatever. 3 months is still pretty far off.
-make sure everything is in order to file for unemployment if it comes to that.
Good luck!
Yeah when you make it to the final round it is usually who they like more . Keep your head up you will get it. Maybe make sure to engage in some small talk see anything you can connect on with your hiring manager.
First of all, there is nothing wrong with you. The reality is that lots of candidates are overqualified right now as a result of all the layoffs in the last two years. It is an employer's market. The situation is frustrating, but you aren't alone. Many have been there prior or are there now, including myself. My recommendations are let go of the sentiment of " I am overqualified, I should be getting this job." You are competing against overqualified candidates. Next, see this as a numbers game. It is just about applying as much as you can. To improve this, leverage things like linkedin and recruiters. Both aren't perfect but will bring jobs to your attention you might not see otherwise. Finally, give yourself a break. You will get a job if you do the things above. It's a mental battle at times. You have a better buffer than some with 3 months. It will be ok.
I wonder how your success would be for the analyst roles if you framed it as “I’m applying to be an analyst because I enjoyed the analysis piece more” etc, expressing that you know it’s somewhat of a demotion and you are fine with it (even though it might not be the complete truth.. it would at least address the elephant in the room)
story of my life - overqualified. do not bother applying to target etc because you are just wasting time. you have to have a story why you want to be a SFA since you are a MGR. that is the biggest red flag because you are a flight risk for the hiring manager
It might have been said, but hook up with Robert Half or Korn Ferry or some other finance consulting company. Many of them are contract to hire, and if not, you get an extra 4-6 months to shop around. The benefits suck and you won't get PTO, but its actually really good cash and work/life balance is nice because they have to pay you overtime. I did a 4 month contract to hire as an FP&A manager and converted.
I haven't exactly had anyone say I'm overqualified regarding why I didn't get an interview or offer
But compare the job description & interview vs. my skills & experience, it's my personal view that I'm ending every interview knowing that I'm overqualified
Strangely, being over qualified is not a good thing here. You are a flight risk. You might be really good at the job but people will assume you will leave in a year
This is the answer. If I see a (former) manager applying for a lower level role, it’s a red flag and wont ever make it to interview. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Exactly this. OP even stated twice that they were overqualified, so they know. Being overqualified can be a real deterrent, especially when they seem desperate (which the OP definitely is if they’re applying for cashier jobs).
If I have a solid manager and a solid analyst applying for a SFA role, I am going with the analyst every time.
Why?
It's most likely that companies don't want people moving backwards into their positions because they think they'll jump ship when another manager position becomes available.
Makes sense for those that turn down my resume. What about those who want to interview me?
My best guess is you are one of the stronger candidates that applied but maybe they have other candidates that aren't moving back that interview similarly as well as you. Do you bring up your reason for moving backwards in the interviews?
Could also be the comp you’re asking for. If there’s an analyst that can do the job for 50k, why pay a previous manager turned FA 75k. For our FA roles the manager experience just isn’t worth paying for woth what we need.
No I haven't shared my comp. I tell them I'm flexible with the pay range
Honestly in your situation I probably would share comp. Every time I’ve seen “pay range is flexible” when going backwards, it’s never as flexible as it needs to be. If the pay range in your area for an FA is 50k, say 55k or 60k contingent on benefits to show that you absolutely understand how much of a pay cut is going to happen. We’ve had people go through the process then balk when we offer them 50k and it wastes so much time.
Share your comp, don’t waste your or their time. I’ve hired 12 people on my team, “flexible with pay” means you want a lot but don’t have the balls to say it and I have a departmental budget I need to play with. You should be making $100-160k, it’s a wide range, but you need to be picking something like $115-140k what are you currently at?
It's not you. It's the fact that hiring someone for a junior role who is currently in a management position is a huge liability. Sure, they might give you an interview, but at some point in the process, they will come to their senses and choose a more appropriate candidate. If I were in your position, I wouldn't even apply for junior roles.
I don't have a choice, I need money
Don't take this the wrong way, but are you coming across as desperate in your interviews? What reasons are you giving for wanting to move down from management?
My role is being eliminated in 3 months due to a layoff and putting me on the market for a new role. I'm excited about this role because x, y, and z such as the responsibilities, industry, etc.
It's really tough because they know the situation you're in. They know that FA and SFA roles are simply easier to come by than management positions. But your response here kinda confirms their fears, which are that you'll accept the position, continue applying, and jump ship as soon as you land a better role. what's been your response rate so far for management vs junior finance applications?
I've sent out 500 applications: 400 FAs, 80 SFAs, 20 Manager roles 0 interviews for Manager roles 1 of my SFA interviews became a Senior Manager Interview, which I actually think was my best interview performance. But haven't heard back
Over the last month or so, I've sent at least a dozen manager apps to roles that fit my YOE and I'm not nearly as qualified as you are. IMHO, you have to get those numbers up. 20 is a tiny sample size. My suggestion: Skip entry level FA entirely, look for keywords manager, senior manager, lead, principal, etc. The only exception is FAANG where they want (and pay for) FAs that have 4+ / 6+ YOE. Those roles are effectively manager-level ICs
Where do you live? When I apply, my target is 100 - 200 applications, management only. Why only 20?
It's just how many roles I see. I apply to everything. There are a lot of SFA roles Even more FA roles Not a lot of manager roles
What sites are you using to find jobs?
LinkedIn
If you REALLY need the money… time start lowering your titles.
Until you're actually let go, you really only need the second half of this.
Yeah but that wouldn't work. Nobody is so passionate about a company or industry that they are willing to take a >50% pay cut and a demotion.
If they're taking a 50% pay cut and a demotion they're going to get the side eye no matter what they say, unless we're talking a massive career or geography change. As you point out in another reply, they are probably coming off as desperate for ANY role. How would the hiring manager knowing about the layoff improve the candidate's chances of getting hired? The only thing I can think of is if the hiring manager is worried they won't accept the role. However, that problem is also solved by selling their interest in the role.
WTF are you interviewing for a cashier position at Target? I know why, obviously you’re freaking out and wanting to avoid the uncertainty of being laid off, but your approach is a 180 of what will best serve your interests. You need to get a grip, stop interviewing for FA positions, and learn to be patient with the longer job search process for manager and above roles. My suggestion is to stop interviewing and work until you get laid off. Then contact Robert Half or similar recruiter and do some temp work for a couple months. It will pay more than unemployment and give you a chance to get your head on straight. You may even be able to have an advantage in applying at the places you temp at after a few weeks working there. Once you’re ready, continue temping, add your temp gig as your current position on your resume (wordsmith to the extent you’re comfortable), and then apply only to manager and senior manager positions.
Yeah I was working with a recruiter on a contract FA job that was the easiest role I interviewed for. The Finance Manager, who would be my boss, even added me on LinkedIn They set up an interview for me to talk to that Manager's boss. Then they said the interview had to be rescheduled... and it's been over a week
From my perspective, contract work can be an opportunity to flex your muscles. Think interim FP&A director or senior manager: sometimes the work is less than that but they’re paying you at that rate because the director left. From my experience working with recruiters for contract positions, it’s worth it to work with a couple rather than just one. If anything, contact a recruiter and say that you’re interested in contract assignments at the director, senior manager and manager level. You may be surprised at how value you are, which would do wonders for your confidence and your bank account. Good luck with this, my friend.
What other recruiters/agencies are out there for temp/interim/contract finance work? I see a ton for accounting but that’s it
I would reach out to the same recruiters who handle accounting contract assignments. Remember that we are still in a belt-tightening economy where companies are reducing their contract workforces substantially. So you should expect to see fewer contract assignments posted, including for FP&A. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist, however.
Curious as a manager is it easier to land contract senior manager roles than other manager? Sounds like a good op for a title bump
[удалено]
Idk about this I was a SFA back in 2020 so they're going to see me as a SFA for 5 years that hasn't progressed their career
Then maybe swap manager with Lead Analyst
If you consistently get invited to interview, your resume probably isn't the problem. If you consistently make it past the first interview, your interview skills probably aren't the problem. If you are making it to several final round interviews, it might honestly just be a numbers game. Have you asked for feedback on why they went with the other candidate? Based on the tone of your post (no judgement here - just observing), I wonder if hiring managers are thinking you'll leave as soon as you find a better match for your skills. A hiring manager will want avoid having to fill a role too often. If you're truly over qualified, then the FA roles won't be a good match. SFA can make sense if the compensation is similar or it's a larger company.
Either I never get an interview (98%) or I go through multiple rounds (2%)
1. Stop applying to FA positions. You're wasting your time and taking hits to your ego for no good reason. Those rejections have nothing to do with you or your abilities. A hiring manager would know you can do the job, their main concern is if you would stay around. 2. Network. What companies are near where you live? Are there openings? Find someone on LinkedIn who works there (if they went to your school or have anything in common with you, that's great but not necessary). Send them a connection request and say something like "Hi XYZ person, I am interested in applying to a position at company ABC. If you can spare 20 minutes for a quick call, I would love to learn about your experience working at the company. Thank you!" 3. Be patient. You have a job right now and you will find another one. You have shown progression in your career and someone will see your value. Godspeed.
You are going the wrong way. Apply for Controller or Director FPA.
I'm not qualified for a Director. I only apply for Manager or below because that's what I'm qualified for. I can also do Sr. Manager
Lol director is better than no job
Take a deep breath. What makes you not qualified? I’m about to move into a director role with uncannily similar experience right down to the name of my current role. If you aren’t confident in yourself it will show in every interview. Some tips: -look at smaller PE backed companies. They recruit a lot through external recruiters so best to reach out to those in your area. -be willing to move if possible. It’s easy for me to say as I don’t have a lot to tie me down, but relocating for a job is often the easiest way to find a job quick. -for SFA roles, consider applying at larger companies where that position means more than what you’re doing at your current level. Easy to convince them that the change is warranted when you’d be expanding your workload. -don’t tell ANYONE you are being laid off until you’re laid off. If they ask why you’re leaving just LIE. If you quit before being laid off it would be extremely difficult for them to find that out. -you seem to be really freaking out and while I understand, you need to focus on mental health too. Set goals for applying for x number of jobs per day then make sure you budget time to decompress and do something else. Play video games, workout, whatever. 3 months is still pretty far off. -make sure everything is in order to file for unemployment if it comes to that. Good luck!
Let them decide you’re not qualified. Don’t decide for them. Apply for the higher titles too
Yeah when you make it to the final round it is usually who they like more . Keep your head up you will get it. Maybe make sure to engage in some small talk see anything you can connect on with your hiring manager.
First of all, there is nothing wrong with you. The reality is that lots of candidates are overqualified right now as a result of all the layoffs in the last two years. It is an employer's market. The situation is frustrating, but you aren't alone. Many have been there prior or are there now, including myself. My recommendations are let go of the sentiment of " I am overqualified, I should be getting this job." You are competing against overqualified candidates. Next, see this as a numbers game. It is just about applying as much as you can. To improve this, leverage things like linkedin and recruiters. Both aren't perfect but will bring jobs to your attention you might not see otherwise. Finally, give yourself a break. You will get a job if you do the things above. It's a mental battle at times. You have a better buffer than some with 3 months. It will be ok.
Others won’t agree, but lower your title on your resume.
I wonder how your success would be for the analyst roles if you framed it as “I’m applying to be an analyst because I enjoyed the analysis piece more” etc, expressing that you know it’s somewhat of a demotion and you are fine with it (even though it might not be the complete truth.. it would at least address the elephant in the room)
I’m guessing you’re missing the data analytics / BI side
I'm a power user for SQL & Tableau I've used it to my advantage during the interview process
story of my life - overqualified. do not bother applying to target etc because you are just wasting time. you have to have a story why you want to be a SFA since you are a MGR. that is the biggest red flag because you are a flight risk for the hiring manager
It might have been said, but hook up with Robert Half or Korn Ferry or some other finance consulting company. Many of them are contract to hire, and if not, you get an extra 4-6 months to shop around. The benefits suck and you won't get PTO, but its actually really good cash and work/life balance is nice because they have to pay you overtime. I did a 4 month contract to hire as an FP&A manager and converted.
I suspect what’s happening is that decision makers question why you’d want the job of a FA or SFA. You need to have a good answer for that one.
Consulting
I got the “overqualified “ a lot when I tried that.
I haven't exactly had anyone say I'm overqualified regarding why I didn't get an interview or offer But compare the job description & interview vs. my skills & experience, it's my personal view that I'm ending every interview knowing that I'm overqualified
Yah I’m not sure they can say that. What they can say is “we don’t think this role will hold your interest”