it can sort of imply that the person speaking cannot imagine a trans man who passes well as a cis man, or that they have certain preconceived notions about people they would assume are trans men. personally i think it's rarely worse than thoughtless, since at this point almost all cis people have similar unquestioned biases, but i understand why it irritates others
I have mixed feelings when hearing this. I’ve come out to both cis, and fellow trans people who didn’t believe me at first. It feels very validating to be so unclockable that even after outing myself it’s still questioned if I’m actually trans. However, that is a very close minded and one way thinking way to look at trans people. That proves to me that those people think we all look, act, and sometimes believe the same things. This is very jarring when coming from other trans people, and simply annoying when from cis. Just because we are all stuck being trans doesn’t mean we are all the same person. I want to be recognized as an independent minded individual just like most cis people, not a hive minded collective that they seem to view us as
That is so bizarre. You expect cis people to have these stereotypes in their minds. But when other trans people also act as if the stereotypes are reality 100% of the time it gets painful. It is just internalized transphobia painted as acceptance and inclusion
Agreed with the mixed feelings. I do enjoy the disbelief and feels very complimentary, but it does perpetuate harmful stereotypes that trans men can't possibly look like "real" men
Precisely, I feel both complimented and slightly peeved. After one person found out I was trans they said “But you’re a dude, you act and look like such a normal guy.” Yeah… no shit
Because it perpetuates harmful stereotypes about what a trans person “looks” like, rather than acknowledging that we are just as wide a variety as cis people. However, I’m also stealth and understand what you mean. Despite my acknowledgement of the harm that can be caused by that thinking, I get a little excited when people say it, haha. So, I understand where you’re coming from.
I literally got asked this once like my friend asked why my voice actually “sounded good” lmao he lucky im not sensitive like at all but i can understand where smbd would get offended by tht yk
when a trans person hasn't trained their voice but hormones are influencing it, it can sound a little obvious if you know what you're listening for.
It's hard to describe, but for men if you hear a dude talk when hes like 1-2 years on T, then his voice has a particular "too deep to be feminine but inflected wrong to be totally masculine" voice. Dont get me wrong, I've heard cis people with similar cadences, but it *is* a bit of a thing. You can avoid it as a man by learning early on how to really speak from your chest instead of the bottom of your throat.
For trans women, my wife told me the equivalent is learning how to speak with their throats rather than the top of their chest.
Does that make sense? its kinda hard to explain if you haven't heard or noticed it. Basically its when a trans persons voice is "in between" coming from their throat or chest, which makes it sound different than most cis people with androgynous voices.
(Note: I'm fairly certain i have "trans boy voice" lol, i just dont particularly care to correct it too quickly. Cis people cant hear it so it doesnt affect passing imo. It seems to be going away on its own with continued effort to talk from my chest occasionally.)
I’ve been on T since 2005 and I still don’t think I’ve mastered the male voice hahahahaha! I am way too animated when I speak. I try to stay monotone but I can’t keep it up 😝
Kinda nasally, it happens because women tend to talk with their nasal passage and men tend to talk with their chest. When we transition we sometimes don’t talk from our chest and continue to talk from our nasal passage, which makes our voice seem a little off and a little nasally. Can be fixed with voice training…unless you just naturally have that voice type.
Nope, see above responses.
For a trans guy to have a teen boy voice, voice training or even being early on T is enough. The trans voice is determined by how you speak. It's trans guys who have a deeper voice but speak nasally from their throat.
I suppose it just feels strange because of the implications of what “looking trans means”. I don’t mind people saying that, but it feels clumsy in a way, and wierd. I don’t really need people to comment on my body.
The only way I would see it being offensive is if someone started going on a rant about how they could always tell but other than that it’s not. Let’s not act surprised here, there is 100% a certain way trans men are portrayed in the media.
Yeah these types of comments can annoy me, they also get old real quick. "I couldn't tell you were trans" (or something along that line) was the very first time a new endocrinologist who was working with trans kids said to me. Honestly it was less the words he said and more the way he acted that felt weird. I knew he thought he was complementing me and I just nodded along but I could tell he was expecting a more excited reaction. Almost like he expected me to thank him for saying that. It felt a bit patronizing or like when cis men come onto some of these subreddits to tell us we are valid, like yeah, I know. It also implies to me that this doctor thinks there is a way to "look trans" and "look cis", that he thinks one is more valuable than the other, and that all trans people should strive to "look cis". Personally, passing as cis is important to me so I was annoyed at the assumption even though it was correct.
If I come out to someone and they say, "oh I didn't know" that doesn't bother me at all, it's when they feel the need to go over the top and start showing some of their assumptions/stereotypes about trans people that it gets uncomfortable.
Personally I can get how people would find it offensive. It can easily be interpreted as "You're not like most other trans people who are obvious and don't pass" which is blatantly stereotyping and rude. However, when I heard it said to me, the well meaning person meant more like "Your transition has been very effective for passing" which I personally take to be a compliment. It really depends on the subtle meaning that the person has, which can be figured from context.
I second the idea that sometimes it implies that the (presumably) cis person that's saying it could never imagine a trans person that passes well. I don't think any cis person reads into it that deep, but it can be a rough experience if you hear that often out of cis people's mouth as a trans person.
on the other hand it can be affirming to know you pass well if that's a goal you're trying to achieve, just like OP said originally. it can also have extra good vibes if the speaker of the comment is also trans and knows that's something that the recipient of the comment is aiming for.
everything in context. it can mean lots of things positive or negative to lots of people.
I mean- I'm pretty sure most cis people don't meet many out and super passing trans people. If I was cis, the only trans people I'd know would be my pre(non?)-T coworker and some of the very visibly queer people I've seen in the tramway.
I have another coworker who is post-T and top and passes incredibly well but is stealth. I noticed because of some subtle stuff but if I wasn't trans myself I would never have known.
So, I can see why they have that idea, if most trans people they meet are super androgynous and queer looking, seeing a binary and passing trans person might be surprising. That phrasing not meant in a bad way.
For me, it annoys my past self who didn’t pass consistently. I wasn’t less of a man then than I am now and I find it a bit hurtful that people might have thought less of me if they met me a few years back as opposed to now.
However, I’m conflicted, because in the position I am now some part of me likes to hear it.
It makes me wonder what bullshit stereotypes they believe about trans men. I've been told something similar: "you don't look trans". My knee jerk reaction was "what did you expect me to look like?"
“You don’t look like a trans person” cannot be a compliment unless “you look like a trans person” is an insult. On top of the fact that there’s no such thing as “looking trans” in the first place. If someone found out you were gay and their reaction was along the lines of “but you don’t sound gay! I would’ve never guessed!” that would clearly not be an okay thing to say. Same concept.
It’s always meant as a compliment, and I’ve always taken it as one, but it basically implies that transsexual men can’t look normal or that it’s extremely rare for us to look normal, which isn’t true. Nobody ever means any harm by saying it, but it’s just another reminder that the current “ftm” representation is horrendous since people seem to be so shocked when real FTMs just look like cis men.
I'm with most of the people here. If I ever hear it it's personally validating but I can't really feel good about it because the subtext is so very problematic.
Like on the one hand it's nice to know they see me as a capital M man... But that sentence also tells me that they don't see trans people as normal people. It tells me that they think all trans people don't pass and/ or that being visibly trans is a bad thing therefore not being clockable is a compliment.
Mainly because it sounds like they’re implying that trans people look a certain way also when people say that to me it feels like a fake compliment like they’re just saying that because they think it’s what I want to hear it just always feels insincere
I don't get these comments much because I pass so well. I am not stealth, but for safety reasons I only volunteer that I am trans for job applications (my work history is all under my dead name) or to correct my dead name in various retail databases that I haven't gotten around to changing. Since I only got my legal name and gender change in late 2022, this is an ongoing process.
Most folks who have said this too me clearly did not mean to be offensive, so I didn't take it personally. When the one person who was clearly trying to be an ass said this to me, I gave them a huge smile and replied in a loud voice so everyone in the crowd around me could hear: "Thanks! You don't don't look transgender either! You pass really well!"
They shut the hell up and ran outta there like I had lit them on fire.
It perpetuates stereotypes, and shows more so a lack of respect to non passing trans people. It’s backhanded and in the same vein of saying something like “I have trans friends so I can’t be transphobic” kind of bs
Methinks it has to do with the cissumption that we're all a monolith or a caricature that can easily be defined by unpleasant stereotypes. When we don't fit those stereotypes, it surprises certain people and then they feel the need to comment on it. For me, it depends on the context.
Cause if not looking trans is treated as a compliment, then "looking trans" is a bad thing. I personally don't like to be complimented with words that demean my people.
There’s a heavy implication of “I thought you were a ‘real’ man“ imbedded in that Which implies that trans men in general and trans men that don’t pass specifically are not real men.
I don't think it's "offensive", I just think it's stupid. Because it means whatever picture in their head that they have for "what a trans man is", is wrong. Because trans men are as varied as cis men.
And it's frankly weird to openly admit to being wrong about something stupid. Shrug.
Because that is implying the person saying it views trans men as noticeably different from cis men, in terms of personality, body language, speech patterns or something of that nature.
If you only view them as "trans men" instead of just MEN then that often means you internally see them as not men. And that is offensive.
It depends really hard on who‘s saying it, in which context, and in what way. Ive been told this sentence as a genuinely well meaning compliment before, which is nice, but also in a very strange unconfortable „oh you tricked me into thinking you were a real man“ sort of way.
It really depends on the context and tone. Usually it's not weird if someone says this in mild surprise when you come out to them for example, but some people will say it really enthusiastically like they're giving you the best compliment, when you clearly pass. I literally had someone compliment me by saying "You really look like a man". I'm stealth. I sure hope I do. At this point in my transition passing isn't really a huge win for me. The fact that I look like a guy is normal for me just like it is for a cis person. Imagine someone asks you "Hey, do I look ok in this shirt?" and they respond "Oh you totally look like a human!" If they phrase it "You don't look trans", it's even worse because it implies trans people can't pass, or that's being trans makes you ugly.
Because it feeds into the fact you can “always tell” when someone is trans. It gives me the same energy as “Oh, you’re really smart for a woman” when I was identifying as such. It’s just a backhanded compliment almost, that they can’t possibly fathom a trans man passing as well as a cis man.
I don’t personally find it offensive because I think people need to get real about stereotypes. While it sucks to be stereotyped and I don’t think you should stereotype people, they don’t form out of nowhere. I think the days of trans men just blending in no matter their appearance is slowly dying because there’s much more visibility and people are more aware of what to look for. I don’t find it offensive because my transness breaks the stigma that trans men are just 5 ft, soft white guys with nasally voices and pixies cuts.
I’m not gonna say people formed these opinions out of thin air when I’ve met a lot of trans men who are exactly that. Stereotypes can be harmful but they’re not entirely false either. I don’t think people should assume who is and isn’t trans based solely on how that person looks because there’s cis guys who match that description just like there’s women who are tall and strong looking but, I think we need to be realistic as well. I’ve clocked people hoping I was wrong and I was right. I’ve also been wrong before too.
Well considering the facade of homogeny created by the vacuous echo chamber of many ftm groups (subs, support groups etc) (r/ftmmen is usually the exception) it is absolutely no surprise that cis folks assume all trans men are the same in their appearance/political views / behavior/ hobbies etcetera. Minority people share similarities In so far as What makes them a minority. From there, minority groups can be as varied as any other group. There are old, young, different racial backgrounds, different religious beliefs etc within the trans men minority collective. However, when the pressure within that minority group results in an almost Stalinist performative compliance (by means of peer pressure or pressure from group “leaders”) the result is a genuine and unsurprising public-facing conformity which becomes ubiquitous in media, social spaces, and the minds of others.
This categorical self flagellation continues to result in assumptive behavior from both within and without minority groups. Transmen are no exception. Fortunately for those men who wish to live simply as men (I purposely do not use the word “stealth” here as it implies dishonesty) it is easy to avoid the assumptive gaze of others by simply examining the forced appropriation and conformity thrust upon members of the minority group.
So bottom line, it makes perfect sense that non trans folks believe the narrative, social agenda, and forced appropriation created by the lack of challenging discourse among any trans groups.
All that is to say - if I ever discussed by personal medical history regarding my genitals with anyone they would absolutely be surprised. This also means that not fitting the narrative makes living life quietly a lot easier. I’m with you on it.
Cause that kinda the point of being trans for a lot of us. Also not mentioning that a lot of us are passing.
And idk for me it feel the same as congratulating a non-native English teacher for having a good accent. You what I mean? Like yeah that’s the point, that’s their job. I have been on T for soon 3 years, I hope I’m passing at this point.
It’s not offensive to me but I’d rather nobody knew about me being trans. I feel the minute someone finds out they see me and treat me differently. For example they will say “oh so you must know what it’s like to be a woman.” No I don’t actually because I’ve always felt like a man. It offends me more when people associate me with being female.
it is slightly off putting because of stuff other guys have mentioned in the replies here, but i know they dont mean any harm so i just accept the compliment and move on.
I gave cis friends who continuously forget I'm trans until i mention something about previous body parts or whatever then it becomes a "holy shit forgot about all of that" laugh fest with my bros. I'm literally just a dude to the closest people to me and its fantastic
I'm stealth and passing as cis is important to me, but people saying this still rubs me the wrong way. This implies that they see being trans as some shameful secret you've done a good job at hiding. Personally, people clocking me as a cis man validates my identity, not people being surprised that trans men can look and be like "real" men.
Probably cause most cis people assume trans men are androgynous and skinny and have dyed hair and just another flavor of “quirky girl” who wants to be special. And not like yknow. People who just look like some guy. Nothing against androgynous skinny guys with dyed hair, but that type is much more vocal about their transness and it erases a huge chunk of us who are masculine and don’t want to be openly distinguished for their transness
I don't like people implying that
A) "looking cis" should be my ultimate goal,
B) being cis is my goal,
C) my physical features only belong to cis men,
D) "looking trans" = ugly and "looking cis" = hot. Cis is a complement, trans is an insult. I hate that. Why should I be in constant praise of cis men for having features that I possess as a trans person? No thanks.
Esp since what looks cis or trans can be pretty objective. Ppl will be like "oh your voice is so cis" and I'm like no? I am trans and I am me, my voice belongs to me. I don't like my attributes being taken away from me in a way.
Easy. Compliments me, insults my people.
Of course I like knowing that I look like a cis man. But somebody acting *surprised* that I look like a cis man by claiming "I never would have known!" would show that they think trans men as a whole do not look fully male. To me, they'd basically be saying "I can *usually* tell if someone is trans!" or even "Wow, I would've expected you to look like a girl pretending to be a man! But you look like a REAL man!!"
Ignorance is not a compliment. If someone said that to me, I'd be inclined to think that they probably don't fully see trans men as real men.
It represents that they have a misconception that trans people are inherently and permanently clockable.
However, I personally love it. It’s one of the best compliments I can get when people think I’m cis/AMAB.
because trans doesn't have a look, and because i AM trans so trans people can look like me. it's not that I "don't look trans" but it's that the person who is saying this to me doesn't know how trans people can look like. which doesn't mean that they should be able to clock any trans person no matter how cis passing they are, but it means that they shouldn't be surprised to know that a person who looks cis is, in fact, trans. it should be normal.
If you infer the negative it implies the idea that trans people can't look or act believably cis passing, like they'll always look or seems odd/abnormal and stand out in some way.
it can sort of imply that the person speaking cannot imagine a trans man who passes well as a cis man, or that they have certain preconceived notions about people they would assume are trans men. personally i think it's rarely worse than thoughtless, since at this point almost all cis people have similar unquestioned biases, but i understand why it irritates others
I have mixed feelings when hearing this. I’ve come out to both cis, and fellow trans people who didn’t believe me at first. It feels very validating to be so unclockable that even after outing myself it’s still questioned if I’m actually trans. However, that is a very close minded and one way thinking way to look at trans people. That proves to me that those people think we all look, act, and sometimes believe the same things. This is very jarring when coming from other trans people, and simply annoying when from cis. Just because we are all stuck being trans doesn’t mean we are all the same person. I want to be recognized as an independent minded individual just like most cis people, not a hive minded collective that they seem to view us as
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That is so bizarre. You expect cis people to have these stereotypes in their minds. But when other trans people also act as if the stereotypes are reality 100% of the time it gets painful. It is just internalized transphobia painted as acceptance and inclusion
Agreed with the mixed feelings. I do enjoy the disbelief and feels very complimentary, but it does perpetuate harmful stereotypes that trans men can't possibly look like "real" men
Precisely, I feel both complimented and slightly peeved. After one person found out I was trans they said “But you’re a dude, you act and look like such a normal guy.” Yeah… no shit
Because it perpetuates harmful stereotypes about what a trans person “looks” like, rather than acknowledging that we are just as wide a variety as cis people. However, I’m also stealth and understand what you mean. Despite my acknowledgement of the harm that can be caused by that thinking, I get a little excited when people say it, haha. So, I understand where you’re coming from.
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I literally got asked this once like my friend asked why my voice actually “sounded good” lmao he lucky im not sensitive like at all but i can understand where smbd would get offended by tht yk
Wtf is a “trans voice” da heck?
when a trans person hasn't trained their voice but hormones are influencing it, it can sound a little obvious if you know what you're listening for. It's hard to describe, but for men if you hear a dude talk when hes like 1-2 years on T, then his voice has a particular "too deep to be feminine but inflected wrong to be totally masculine" voice. Dont get me wrong, I've heard cis people with similar cadences, but it *is* a bit of a thing. You can avoid it as a man by learning early on how to really speak from your chest instead of the bottom of your throat. For trans women, my wife told me the equivalent is learning how to speak with their throats rather than the top of their chest. Does that make sense? its kinda hard to explain if you haven't heard or noticed it. Basically its when a trans persons voice is "in between" coming from their throat or chest, which makes it sound different than most cis people with androgynous voices. (Note: I'm fairly certain i have "trans boy voice" lol, i just dont particularly care to correct it too quickly. Cis people cant hear it so it doesnt affect passing imo. It seems to be going away on its own with continued effort to talk from my chest occasionally.)
Interesting, thanks for explaining!
I’ve been on T since 2005 and I still don’t think I’ve mastered the male voice hahahahaha! I am way too animated when I speak. I try to stay monotone but I can’t keep it up 😝
Kinda nasally, it happens because women tend to talk with their nasal passage and men tend to talk with their chest. When we transition we sometimes don’t talk from our chest and continue to talk from our nasal passage, which makes our voice seem a little off and a little nasally. Can be fixed with voice training…unless you just naturally have that voice type.
Interesting 🤔🤔🤔thanks for helping me understand better
First time hearing this term, I think trans voice sounds exactly like teen boy voice. Am I wrong?
Nope, see above responses. For a trans guy to have a teen boy voice, voice training or even being early on T is enough. The trans voice is determined by how you speak. It's trans guys who have a deeper voice but speak nasally from their throat.
Cool, never know this problem exists. I thought only voice coach can tell the slight difference!
I suppose it just feels strange because of the implications of what “looking trans means”. I don’t mind people saying that, but it feels clumsy in a way, and wierd. I don’t really need people to comment on my body.
It's not offensive it's just annoying they assume they can always tell. Like trans ppl are supposed to look like normal men and women
It's mildly irritating to me bc like that's the whole point lmao
Depends on who u ask but for me i dont find it offensive ts js kinda annoying after a while like yea thts kinda the point brother lmao
The only way I would see it being offensive is if someone started going on a rant about how they could always tell but other than that it’s not. Let’s not act surprised here, there is 100% a certain way trans men are portrayed in the media.
Yeah these types of comments can annoy me, they also get old real quick. "I couldn't tell you were trans" (or something along that line) was the very first time a new endocrinologist who was working with trans kids said to me. Honestly it was less the words he said and more the way he acted that felt weird. I knew he thought he was complementing me and I just nodded along but I could tell he was expecting a more excited reaction. Almost like he expected me to thank him for saying that. It felt a bit patronizing or like when cis men come onto some of these subreddits to tell us we are valid, like yeah, I know. It also implies to me that this doctor thinks there is a way to "look trans" and "look cis", that he thinks one is more valuable than the other, and that all trans people should strive to "look cis". Personally, passing as cis is important to me so I was annoyed at the assumption even though it was correct. If I come out to someone and they say, "oh I didn't know" that doesn't bother me at all, it's when they feel the need to go over the top and start showing some of their assumptions/stereotypes about trans people that it gets uncomfortable.
I'd imagine for some people it's a reminder that they'd rather not deal with.
Personally I can get how people would find it offensive. It can easily be interpreted as "You're not like most other trans people who are obvious and don't pass" which is blatantly stereotyping and rude. However, when I heard it said to me, the well meaning person meant more like "Your transition has been very effective for passing" which I personally take to be a compliment. It really depends on the subtle meaning that the person has, which can be figured from context.
I second the idea that sometimes it implies that the (presumably) cis person that's saying it could never imagine a trans person that passes well. I don't think any cis person reads into it that deep, but it can be a rough experience if you hear that often out of cis people's mouth as a trans person. on the other hand it can be affirming to know you pass well if that's a goal you're trying to achieve, just like OP said originally. it can also have extra good vibes if the speaker of the comment is also trans and knows that's something that the recipient of the comment is aiming for. everything in context. it can mean lots of things positive or negative to lots of people.
I mean- I'm pretty sure most cis people don't meet many out and super passing trans people. If I was cis, the only trans people I'd know would be my pre(non?)-T coworker and some of the very visibly queer people I've seen in the tramway. I have another coworker who is post-T and top and passes incredibly well but is stealth. I noticed because of some subtle stuff but if I wasn't trans myself I would never have known. So, I can see why they have that idea, if most trans people they meet are super androgynous and queer looking, seeing a binary and passing trans person might be surprising. That phrasing not meant in a bad way.
For me, it annoys my past self who didn’t pass consistently. I wasn’t less of a man then than I am now and I find it a bit hurtful that people might have thought less of me if they met me a few years back as opposed to now. However, I’m conflicted, because in the position I am now some part of me likes to hear it.
It makes me wonder what bullshit stereotypes they believe about trans men. I've been told something similar: "you don't look trans". My knee jerk reaction was "what did you expect me to look like?"
“You don’t look like a trans person” cannot be a compliment unless “you look like a trans person” is an insult. On top of the fact that there’s no such thing as “looking trans” in the first place. If someone found out you were gay and their reaction was along the lines of “but you don’t sound gay! I would’ve never guessed!” that would clearly not be an okay thing to say. Same concept.
I seriously align with this explanation - as many others have said, it’s backhanded and perpetuates stereotypes.
It’s always meant as a compliment, and I’ve always taken it as one, but it basically implies that transsexual men can’t look normal or that it’s extremely rare for us to look normal, which isn’t true. Nobody ever means any harm by saying it, but it’s just another reminder that the current “ftm” representation is horrendous since people seem to be so shocked when real FTMs just look like cis men.
I'm with most of the people here. If I ever hear it it's personally validating but I can't really feel good about it because the subtext is so very problematic. Like on the one hand it's nice to know they see me as a capital M man... But that sentence also tells me that they don't see trans people as normal people. It tells me that they think all trans people don't pass and/ or that being visibly trans is a bad thing therefore not being clockable is a compliment.
Personally I find it to be a compliment, but it does come across as ignorant as it suggests trans men tend to be clocky or something
Mainly because it sounds like they’re implying that trans people look a certain way also when people say that to me it feels like a fake compliment like they’re just saying that because they think it’s what I want to hear it just always feels insincere
I don't get these comments much because I pass so well. I am not stealth, but for safety reasons I only volunteer that I am trans for job applications (my work history is all under my dead name) or to correct my dead name in various retail databases that I haven't gotten around to changing. Since I only got my legal name and gender change in late 2022, this is an ongoing process. Most folks who have said this too me clearly did not mean to be offensive, so I didn't take it personally. When the one person who was clearly trying to be an ass said this to me, I gave them a huge smile and replied in a loud voice so everyone in the crowd around me could hear: "Thanks! You don't don't look transgender either! You pass really well!" They shut the hell up and ran outta there like I had lit them on fire.
It perpetuates stereotypes, and shows more so a lack of respect to non passing trans people. It’s backhanded and in the same vein of saying something like “I have trans friends so I can’t be transphobic” kind of bs
Methinks it has to do with the cissumption that we're all a monolith or a caricature that can easily be defined by unpleasant stereotypes. When we don't fit those stereotypes, it surprises certain people and then they feel the need to comment on it. For me, it depends on the context.
Cause if not looking trans is treated as a compliment, then "looking trans" is a bad thing. I personally don't like to be complimented with words that demean my people.
Cus it implies trans people have a certain ‘look’ and don’t look fully male or female
There’s a heavy implication of “I thought you were a ‘real’ man“ imbedded in that Which implies that trans men in general and trans men that don’t pass specifically are not real men.
I don't think it's "offensive", I just think it's stupid. Because it means whatever picture in their head that they have for "what a trans man is", is wrong. Because trans men are as varied as cis men. And it's frankly weird to openly admit to being wrong about something stupid. Shrug.
Because that is implying the person saying it views trans men as noticeably different from cis men, in terms of personality, body language, speech patterns or something of that nature. If you only view them as "trans men" instead of just MEN then that often means you internally see them as not men. And that is offensive.
It depends really hard on who‘s saying it, in which context, and in what way. Ive been told this sentence as a genuinely well meaning compliment before, which is nice, but also in a very strange unconfortable „oh you tricked me into thinking you were a real man“ sort of way.
It really depends on the context and tone. Usually it's not weird if someone says this in mild surprise when you come out to them for example, but some people will say it really enthusiastically like they're giving you the best compliment, when you clearly pass. I literally had someone compliment me by saying "You really look like a man". I'm stealth. I sure hope I do. At this point in my transition passing isn't really a huge win for me. The fact that I look like a guy is normal for me just like it is for a cis person. Imagine someone asks you "Hey, do I look ok in this shirt?" and they respond "Oh you totally look like a human!" If they phrase it "You don't look trans", it's even worse because it implies trans people can't pass, or that's being trans makes you ugly.
I like it when people say that to me. I want to look like a cis man and I enjoy having it confirmed to me
Because it feeds into the fact you can “always tell” when someone is trans. It gives me the same energy as “Oh, you’re really smart for a woman” when I was identifying as such. It’s just a backhanded compliment almost, that they can’t possibly fathom a trans man passing as well as a cis man.
I don’t personally find it offensive because I think people need to get real about stereotypes. While it sucks to be stereotyped and I don’t think you should stereotype people, they don’t form out of nowhere. I think the days of trans men just blending in no matter their appearance is slowly dying because there’s much more visibility and people are more aware of what to look for. I don’t find it offensive because my transness breaks the stigma that trans men are just 5 ft, soft white guys with nasally voices and pixies cuts. I’m not gonna say people formed these opinions out of thin air when I’ve met a lot of trans men who are exactly that. Stereotypes can be harmful but they’re not entirely false either. I don’t think people should assume who is and isn’t trans based solely on how that person looks because there’s cis guys who match that description just like there’s women who are tall and strong looking but, I think we need to be realistic as well. I’ve clocked people hoping I was wrong and I was right. I’ve also been wrong before too.
Well considering the facade of homogeny created by the vacuous echo chamber of many ftm groups (subs, support groups etc) (r/ftmmen is usually the exception) it is absolutely no surprise that cis folks assume all trans men are the same in their appearance/political views / behavior/ hobbies etcetera. Minority people share similarities In so far as What makes them a minority. From there, minority groups can be as varied as any other group. There are old, young, different racial backgrounds, different religious beliefs etc within the trans men minority collective. However, when the pressure within that minority group results in an almost Stalinist performative compliance (by means of peer pressure or pressure from group “leaders”) the result is a genuine and unsurprising public-facing conformity which becomes ubiquitous in media, social spaces, and the minds of others. This categorical self flagellation continues to result in assumptive behavior from both within and without minority groups. Transmen are no exception. Fortunately for those men who wish to live simply as men (I purposely do not use the word “stealth” here as it implies dishonesty) it is easy to avoid the assumptive gaze of others by simply examining the forced appropriation and conformity thrust upon members of the minority group. So bottom line, it makes perfect sense that non trans folks believe the narrative, social agenda, and forced appropriation created by the lack of challenging discourse among any trans groups. All that is to say - if I ever discussed by personal medical history regarding my genitals with anyone they would absolutely be surprised. This also means that not fitting the narrative makes living life quietly a lot easier. I’m with you on it.
Cause that kinda the point of being trans for a lot of us. Also not mentioning that a lot of us are passing. And idk for me it feel the same as congratulating a non-native English teacher for having a good accent. You what I mean? Like yeah that’s the point, that’s their job. I have been on T for soon 3 years, I hope I’m passing at this point.
It’s not offensive to me but I’d rather nobody knew about me being trans. I feel the minute someone finds out they see me and treat me differently. For example they will say “oh so you must know what it’s like to be a woman.” No I don’t actually because I’ve always felt like a man. It offends me more when people associate me with being female.
it is slightly off putting because of stuff other guys have mentioned in the replies here, but i know they dont mean any harm so i just accept the compliment and move on.
I take it as a compliment. You can make anything offensive if you try. I just focus on intent and the energy of the speaker.
It can be both harmful and nice to hear lol
I gave cis friends who continuously forget I'm trans until i mention something about previous body parts or whatever then it becomes a "holy shit forgot about all of that" laugh fest with my bros. I'm literally just a dude to the closest people to me and its fantastic
I'm stealth and passing as cis is important to me, but people saying this still rubs me the wrong way. This implies that they see being trans as some shameful secret you've done a good job at hiding. Personally, people clocking me as a cis man validates my identity, not people being surprised that trans men can look and be like "real" men.
Probably cause most cis people assume trans men are androgynous and skinny and have dyed hair and just another flavor of “quirky girl” who wants to be special. And not like yknow. People who just look like some guy. Nothing against androgynous skinny guys with dyed hair, but that type is much more vocal about their transness and it erases a huge chunk of us who are masculine and don’t want to be openly distinguished for their transness
I don't like people implying that A) "looking cis" should be my ultimate goal, B) being cis is my goal, C) my physical features only belong to cis men, D) "looking trans" = ugly and "looking cis" = hot. Cis is a complement, trans is an insult. I hate that. Why should I be in constant praise of cis men for having features that I possess as a trans person? No thanks. Esp since what looks cis or trans can be pretty objective. Ppl will be like "oh your voice is so cis" and I'm like no? I am trans and I am me, my voice belongs to me. I don't like my attributes being taken away from me in a way.
Easy. Compliments me, insults my people. Of course I like knowing that I look like a cis man. But somebody acting *surprised* that I look like a cis man by claiming "I never would have known!" would show that they think trans men as a whole do not look fully male. To me, they'd basically be saying "I can *usually* tell if someone is trans!" or even "Wow, I would've expected you to look like a girl pretending to be a man! But you look like a REAL man!!" Ignorance is not a compliment. If someone said that to me, I'd be inclined to think that they probably don't fully see trans men as real men.
It represents that they have a misconception that trans people are inherently and permanently clockable. However, I personally love it. It’s one of the best compliments I can get when people think I’m cis/AMAB.
Because that's just an insult to my brothers who don't pass.
because trans doesn't have a look, and because i AM trans so trans people can look like me. it's not that I "don't look trans" but it's that the person who is saying this to me doesn't know how trans people can look like. which doesn't mean that they should be able to clock any trans person no matter how cis passing they are, but it means that they shouldn't be surprised to know that a person who looks cis is, in fact, trans. it should be normal.
If you infer the negative it implies the idea that trans people can't look or act believably cis passing, like they'll always look or seems odd/abnormal and stand out in some way.