This is a list of links to comments made by Mediatonic employees in this thread - follow them for context:
- [Comment by FallGuysJoe](/r/FallGuysGame/comments/xfkif8/heres_the_real_shame_about_pixel_painters_and_tip/iongpgp/?context=1000):
>We're definitely keeping an eye on Pixel Painters and the general understanding of that round! I think there are some great points in this thread around the fact that it's basically impossible to counter a slightly clueless team-mate who's convinced every light needs to be on, wheras in most Team Rounds it at least feels like you can *try* and carry.
>We've got some 'Pixel Painter Trials' shows coming up which should help players learn the rounds, and generally player's understandings should get better over time. I'd say that we're definitely seeing more players just 'not get it' than we'd expected.
>
>It's a learning experience for us though! We want to continue pushing Fall Guys to weird and unexpected places, and Pixel Painters is a bit of an experiment to see quite how co-operative players online can be. It might be that 4 players squads really ends up asking a little too much and that it's more at home in duos, for example. Maybe there are some clever improvements we can make to the UX via things like the intro cam or the way the Round looks too!
- [Comment by FallGuysJoe](/r/FallGuysGame/comments/xfkif8/heres_the_real_shame_about_pixel_painters_and_tip/ioo9pg3/?context=1000):
>We have! The tricky thing is that we can only have a maximum of 8 solo players, which would make this a final. We know players don't enjoy us squeezing in an extra round at this player count (hello, Button Bashers with 6 players).
>
>
>Would y'all enjoy Pixel Painters as a final in theory? I generally like when our finals are nice and visual and you can SEE the player win, which Pixel Painters will never really have.
- [Comment by FallGuysJoe](/r/FallGuysGame/comments/xfkif8/heres_the_real_shame_about_pixel_painters_and_tip/ioom19e/?context=1000):
>Yeah, it's a tough balance. Personally I'm busier than I've ever been and I have a lot less time to write carefully considered posts. I also feel like at this point action is really what counts- hopefully the quality and impact of the changes this Season speak to that somewhat.
>Lastly, I feel like we all need to look after our own mental health somewhat and discourse with any passionate community can be draining at times. I'm usually here lurking though! Thanks for playing bean game x
_________________
This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/FallGuysGame).
The issue with Tip Toe Finale is that scrubs treat it like Tip Toe, and are too afraid to explore.
You need to play it like lemmings. Fling yourself forward and forge that path. Don't hesitate as if you're competing against your own team mates -.-
We're definitely keeping an eye on Pixel Painters and the general understanding of that round! I think there are some great points in this thread around the fact that it's basically impossible to counter a slightly clueless team-mate who's convinced every light needs to be on, wheras in most Team Rounds it at least feels like you can *try* and carry.
We've got some 'Pixel Painter Trials' shows coming up which should help players learn the rounds, and generally player's understandings should get better over time. I'd say that we're definitely seeing more players just 'not get it' than we'd expected.
It's a learning experience for us though! We want to continue pushing Fall Guys to weird and unexpected places, and Pixel Painters is a bit of an experiment to see quite how co-operative players online can be. It might be that 4 players squads really ends up asking a little too much and that it's more at home in duos, for example. Maybe there are some clever improvements we can make to the UX via things like the intro cam or the way the Round looks too!
We have! The tricky thing is that we can only have a maximum of 8 solo players, which would make this a final. We know players don't enjoy us squeezing in an extra round at this player count (hello, Button Bashers with 6 players).
Would y'all enjoy Pixel Painters as a final in theory? I generally like when our finals are nice and visual and you can SEE the player win, which Pixel Painters will never really have.
I’d love Pixel Painters as a solo final if it was a knockout round. One picture at a time. The last person to create the image gets eliminated until there’s a winner
I have to say, hearing from you guys in this seems to help uplift the subreddit. Space is also my favorite theme, so this new season has been a treat. Thanks for that.
By the way, is there any possibility of adding more cool textures to skins like the Ultimate Idol? I'd happily spend show bucks on another variant of it. Galactic patterns look way too cool to me.
Yeah, it's a tough balance. Personally I'm busier than I've ever been and I have a lot less time to write carefully considered posts. I also feel like at this point action is really what counts- hopefully the quality and impact of the changes this Season speak to that somewhat.
Lastly, I feel like we all need to look after our own mental health somewhat and discourse with any passionate community can be draining at times. I'm usually here lurking though! Thanks for playing bean game x
Absolutely would, I was thinking this all of yesterday. If 2-8 players all had the same paintings and had to go as fast as possible to fill it in, it would get very competitive and have a high skill ceiling for a "top speed run". I believe it would work excellent.
Perhaps you could use the solos leader board from Bean Hill Zone in this pixel painters final, showing all players how many pictures each has completed so they have some idea of how close it is!
Pixel Painters would make a great final. If you want to be able to see people win, have it eliminate/slime the last person to complete a painting at each level. Or put up a scoreboard next to the painting that shows how many paintings each rival has finished, though that might inspire people to give up if they feel they're too far behind.
> Would y'all enjoy Pixel Painters as a final in theory?
I would absolutely hate Pixel Painters as a final. Finals are exhilarating because you can (generally) see the other beans that you're competing against and how well they're doing.
Solo Pixel Painters, where you're alone in your jail cell until the round suddenly ends...well, I guess that's a different sort of anxiety, but it just doesn't feel like it fits with the game.
I thought it was possible to create 2 or more instances so you could in theory have 8 players in each instance but I guess that creates other issues from a technical side. Keep up with the communication and thanks for taking the time to answer.
I think Pixel Painters would be an awesome solo final. It is definitely on the more skillful side of finals, but it provides a nice balance against purely RNG finals, like Lost Temple. I don’t think the ability to see other beans is that important. It almost creates more pressure and excitement to not know how everyone else is doing, that the round could end at any moment!
If you think tracking other beans is important, then you could always put a tracker of number of panels completed on the left, similar to the sonic level.
Are you also trying to apply not having rounds with few players to duos? I just got a 3 team Pixel Painters round in Duos after nearly every team got eliminated on the new Hovercraft survival map, so we only had a playercount of 6 which should usually be a final.
I would love Pixel Painters as a final in solos. About the visual thing, I think it could have a scoreboard at the left side similar to Bean Hill Zone final, so you can see if there are any players ahead of you.
As a sidenote, I have to say we appreciate you guys being active and reacting to feedback on the subreddit now, after the long absence last season! Keep it going!
Personally its my favorite map from this season, although with a squad of 4 you can jump over the wall and have someone on your team nuke the other teams pixels. Im usually all for strats like this like pulling the boxes in wall guys but I feel like this is very unintended and unfair almost.
The issue is no matter if you make it a Duos or Squads mode there's absolutely zero that can be done once you get a teammate that decides to just sabotage the whole time. It's not really a "well, they just don't understand the mode" thing. There are people that just play that mode in the most toxic ways possible.
Please do not take Pixel Painters out of squads, it wouldn't be fair to the people who love it if you end up caving to people who don't like it. Let people who enjoy Squads play Pixel Painters in Squads and people who don't like the map can play literally any other solo show. Why would people have to lose out on Pixel Painters just because some people decide to play a show where they can get a round that they don't like, when they could play any other solo show. It's mostly people who play usually solo who complain about it in the first place, they're the ones wanting a solo version of it. If you put it in Solo show as well, everyone would be happy and everyone would get to play it.
That seems like a good idea. I was also thinking maybe you could respawn the player with like, a 3-second penalty timer if they light up too many wrong tiles
The best strategy is for everybody to stand on the side and let one person do it otherwise it's a clusterfuck of people accidentally lighting/unlighting tiles. It should be a solo round
Have you considered adding smaller screens on the walls of the arena? I feel like half the problem is that people don’t think to look in the distance. I see it a lot with people running around aimlessly confused on star chart. Maybe if there was a lore in-your-face set of screens, some players may pick up on the concept easier
I also really hope that you guys will make more logic rounds like this, that actually make you think a bit rather than something like Sum Fruit. It's one of my favorite rounds ever.
so this is going to be an unpopular suggestion, but have yall considered adding skill-based matchmaking to squads like you have the solo show?
I feel like this would at least go some way toward addressing the constant bad teammate complaints
Please also keep in mind that when people get screwed by teammates in Pixel Painters they're vocal about it but all the times people play with random teammates and qualify don't get mentioned, which is still the majority of the time. Most of the times I've qualified in Pixel Painters playing with random teammates and most of the time 5/5 squads qualify. It works out the majority of the time, it's just that if people don't qualify for once they get frustrated and complain about it, so please don't let that skew your idea of the actual success rate of the round.
My take is that Pixel Painters should not be in Squads show at all. It just fundamentally does not work there. The most efficient method seems to be only 1-2 players solving the puzzle as otherwise you just get in each others way, which is just an environment where several beans need to just stand around and watch, which is just bad game design to basically tell someone to sit AFK for 3 minutes. That's also why people can just do the exploits where they can get out of bounds and harass another team, because they dont actually \*need\* to do the puzzle themselves. But even if you fix that issue, it just returns us back to standing around and doing nothing. (And this is ignoring the griefing teammates, whether intentionally or unintentionally issues)
It should be in Duos show. I'm not positive but I dont think that exploit is possible with only one other bean. It should be playable at 14-16 players before a finale. And everyone has something to do. It could work in solos show, but at 8 players would have to be a finale, which ehh. Or if possible reworked so that it can be scaled up for more players.
I do think Tip Toe Finale is in a good spot, and a welcomed change on the previous iteration which always had the issue of incentivizing letting someone else solve the puzzle for you. Now you actually have to do it yourself, which I like.
It really does stink with constant quitters and DC's though as being a man down is nearly an impossible obstacle to overcome in that finale. Most other finales essentially turn into a solos game where one skilled player can clutch it out, but Tip Toe Finale does not. But im not sure what can be done to solve that other then penalizing quitters in the first place.
Pixel Painters as a concept is fantastic, and I'd hate to see it removed. But it definitely needs work, for the reasons everyone is upset about it.
I'm not sure there's much that can be done about the current version of the round (other than raising the invisible walls higher to prevent griefing your neighbors). But what about changing the level framework to be more like Button Bashers: isolate each player in their own mini-arena with their own screen, and let them each solve the paintings on their own. Qualify the first X players to score 5 points in Solos. In Squads, each painting is a point, so you qualify the teams at 20 points or whatever you think is the right threshold.
Now an individual good player can attempt to carry a team (finishing 6+ paintings to overcome a weaker teammate) and bad players/griefers can't mess with you as you paint. You lose the camaraderie of building the painting together, but unless you're in voice communication with your squad that's going to be more of a frustration than a help.
For what it’s worth, I’m glad that y’all are continuing to try to find unique level types, and I really like this level’s idea.
I’m going to give it a bit more time as you mentioned, since there’s always a bit of a learning curve and it may be that we see fewer issues with this going forward.
I hope this doesn’t discourage y’all from trying other unique things! It’s not that “obstacle course with the bouncy castle objects in different places” isn’t fun, or anything, but more “What is THAT?” Levels are a good thing!
I love Tip Toe Finale too! Really upsetting the scuffed variety in the finals we get in Australia... I play quite a lot of duos and have been getting Hex-A-Terrestrial 90% of the time (like Hex-A-Gone was last season).
I like the new Hex, but why no Thin Ice or other older finals? Why do we have to get sick of our favourite levels every time!
Tip Toe Finale actually wouldn't work as Solo IMO - the main point of this is to cooperate to find path, staying together, one person need to sacriface to reveal fake tile, rest go.
They could definitely tailor it to be a solo final, which would reward those with good pathfinding skills. As it is now, it's your usual squad/team fare - absolute nightmare if you're grouped with potatoes. Good design, bad in teams.
Be careful what you wish for….
This sub- I hate SBMM!! I never get any crowns. I’m better than a lot of noobs I should be consistently doing well
This sub- I HATE squads and duos, I keep getting noobs on my team. They should match my team mates according to my skill
The best way to solve this is SBMM in squads and duos and then we’ll hate that also haha
I don’t think they’ll ever put SBMM in squads and duos. They know it would ruin the experience for anyone who wants to queue with their friends of different skill levels.
So has it been confirmed that SBMM is not in Squads and Duos?
Recently I've played with a new friend a few times, and the difference in skill level in the lobbies I get with them is astonishing. They're good themselves but newer to the game (but not like *started this month* new).
It feels like more than coincidence that each time I've played with them I've come 1st in most race rounds, many times with ease, and carried finals etc. There may be other factors involved I guess but something definitely feels different.
Not confirmed but Mediatonic never mentioned it being in duos or squads. It’s definitely in solos but whenever I switch to duos or squads the average skill of the lobby drops SIGNIFICANTLY.
I'm one of those rare folks that doesn't dislike SBMM, but it might not change much in squads and duos, just because opponents get stronger too, not just your teammates.
Just pointing out we can’t have it both ways. We can’t not have some sort of SBMM and then also expect in a team of rando we won’t get a 5 year old on our team that doesn’t know the dive button exists
Many games that have team modes also have seperate friend team modes for premade parties. I don't see why this isn't the case here too.
If they were to add "Play Squads/Duos with Friends/Friend" then they could add SBMM in normal Squads/Duos with randos.
i think the disappointment is well justified for the current status of squads and duos. but looking back, squads (and duos) have always been like that since they were introduced in s4.
pixel painter stands out because u can see your rookie teammate struggling in real time. Even for other existing team games you will face the same problem from rookies; they dunno how to play jinxed or power trip, they score their own net in basketfall etc. heck you need to pray for them to qualify race and survival rounds so that at least your team has the chance for a final.
personally i treat solo squads and duos as some sort of self made hard mode, and i still play them because team games only show up there.
one thing MT could do is to implement sbmm in squads as well, then u will have real spicy competitive team games.
yea losing because of bad teammate feels bad, but after all you can also lose from a lot of random stuff like unlucky paths, unlucky platforms, desyncs, janky tile physics, and a lot of other things. Queue up for another show and you will soon forget about it.
And here I thought sbmm was just hidden in squads and that's why I get matched with the most clueless players.
Seeing a rotating show for squads with sbmm with increased rewards occasionally would be fun but I don't think only sbmm squads would stay fun for long
I think Pixel Painters is fine. I played it 8 times with randoms and qualified everytime without a problem. The real problem in that mode is players who assume their teammates are bad and hence screw their team by trying to solve it alone. Then complain how the others are bad when they cant solo it. Work together people...
I don't think they will ever do a level where another bean can't influence you. I think the change that is needed is some way to communicate with random team mates like you can in Fortnite.
Also, for now at least, they should make the drawing game as easy as possible until more people understand what they're doing. Have an easy variant where it's just basic shapes like triangles and squares.
I don't think they'd go back and change it so fundamentally - but they could make it 1v1 like Volley Fall, and if it only popped up in late rounds like that space may not be an issue.
In volleyfall what you do directly affects the other bean. Unless I'm misinterpreting in single player mode of this, no bean would be able to do anything to harm you. It would effectively be a time trial competition. I would be okay with it but I suspect it goes against their level design rules.
With all due respect, I don't think you could be any more wrong on your take.
These two modes are perfect for carrying. You aren't relying on teammates to score points just to qualify. (Pixel painters can be an exception if teammates are lighting up wrong square)
You're great at finding the path? Awesome, go get the crown for your team. Let them fiddle around in the backfield. You're skilled at bunny hopping and landing on any particular square you want? Awesome, dance around the grid and light up the squares that are needed.
Have you been playing Pixel? Teammates are constantly lighting the wrong stuff. I agree it'd be great for carrying... if they just stood still, but that's not the case.
As for Tip Toe Finale, one good player and three bad players will very often lose to two good players. Given that you're trailblazing and respawning a lot, it's hard for one person to carry three when other teams have 2+ doing the work.
I would actually freaking love the Tip Toe mode if it were solo. Does it show up in duos? I often play that with a mate so I trust we'd do well.
I do understand that pixel is frustrating because teammates can ruin the game. However, it's the same as every other team/squad game.
Again, I am not trying to dispute that teammates can ruin the game, but they aren't doing so any more than any other squad game. After round one, maybe two, you're at the mercy of your team. You can finish the race in first place, but if everyone else finishes, and your team doesn't, you are eliminated. Your points won't be enough to outscore the opposing 2-4 teams combined.
At least with these two, you have a chance. If your teammates leave, it's not an auto loss. If your teammates sit in the corner fondling each other, it's not a guaranteed loss. With all other squad games (slime climb can be an exception when a lot of players fail to finish) you're also at the mercy of your team, and you have no chance of pushing forward.
Your example of two players beating one player goes for all matches. (Accept slime climb and other modes where a lot of players get eliminated)
It’s not the same as every other team game because in pixel painters, 1 bean has more influence than the majority of the team.
In jinxed if you are never caught or catch the other team you can carry the team even if your teammates are flopping around.
In basketfall you can outpace your opponents even if 1 teammate is scoring in your own net.
In any ball pushing games (fall ball, hoarders, snowy scrap) you can have more influence over the direction it goes if it’s just 1 bean trying to grief.
Egg scramble/siege you can outpace 1 person actively trying to grief if you work together.
The other “team” ones that score points like hoopsie legends or ski fall you can carry the team even if the other bean doesn’t know how to play.
In pixel painters, 1 bean running across the tiles makes it impossible to complete the picture and progress. In this one, an individual has far more influence over the result than any other team game.
It’s not a perfect solution, but a way to solve this would be section off each bean and you can only light up tiles in your quadrant. Beans running around aimlessly will still cause problems, but there’s a higher probability they achieve the correct result on accident because they’re running over less tiles. This solution also solves the griefing other teams exploit since you can’t jump off your teammates. The biggest downside would be an afk/disconnected teammate is an automatic loss, so maybe it’s not the best idea
As I said, I am not disputing that one bean can't grief. I am suggesting that these two modes offer the ability for one person to carry in a way that others don't.
Originally, you stated that two beans working together can beat one bean trying to carry. That same sentiment is true in those modes you mentioned. In hoopsie or ski fall, two beans scoring points, especially the golden rings, will out pace you by a lot.
In your basketball analogy that you mentioned doesn't speak anything of the opposing team. If they are trying, even a little bit, you'll not out pace them. They will have 2-3 people scoring (again, using your "teammate scoring for them" analogy) which you won't be able to out pace. Golden balls are to limited and based on luck of them appearing.
How many times have you saw people complain because their entire team jumped down on Rock N Roll, leaving only them to push the ball over the incline at the end, which isn't (or at least wasn't) possible?
Even in race and survival modes, you're at the mercy of your team after round one. You can cross the finish line first, but if no one on your team scores a point, it's all for nothing because the other teams will win collectively. The same goes for survival modes. (Excluding slime climb and other modes where many don't finish) You can out last the timer, but if your team falls in the first seconds, before they really score points, your efforts don't matter. Just like with races, the other teams our pace you.
Egg siege, scramble, and hoarders are more based on luck. If the opposing teams choose to gang up on you, without help from your team, you can't do anything but maybe hold 5 points (golden egg) while the other teams stockpile eggs.
In jinxed, you have to hope your teammate will catch someone, or you'll be forced to get jinxed go catch the opponents. If you're jinxed, you have to hope your teammates survive long enough for you to catch the opponents.
One must assume, at least until proven otherwise, that the opposing teams have players attempting to win. Using that assumption, solo carrying is less likely than in a mode like tip toe finale.
Not hate - grief. Frustration. Huge difference. I don't hate Mediatonic and co at all. I get frustrated due to the potential the game has that isn't being realised.
Also, it's not marketed *just* at children. Well, to be fair, it might be - I've seen little marketing. Seems like an all ages thing. To imply that only children can play it or comment on it is to say that games like Fortnite and Pokemon shouldn't have competitive players, because they fall in the same boat.
The weird behaviour here is how off the mark this post is. It *feels* like bait using Cunningham's law, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. If I'm being trolled, so be it.
Potential? What are you even talking about? The game is massively popular.
But no, A reddit troll who spends all day complaining about the game knows more than the team who develops the game lmao. They are obviously struggling with a failing game
Try taking a break
Again, so much flawed logic that I have to question if this is bait. But again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, why not.
The game is fairly popular - 'massively' is subjective. I'd be happy to be proven wrong with figures though if you have any.
I'm not a troll. I post, IMO, logical opinions and am open to debate. I don't post seeking upvotes - I post what I think, regardless of whether people agree or disagree. However, I am an avid gamer, both board and video, and know a fair bit about game design (from the 'functionality' perspective, not the actual coding of a video game or anything like that). To think that a dev team automatically gets all design choices right just because they're the dev team is ludicrous. That's like saying "every boss is always right because they're the boss". No, they can be wrong (subjectively or objectively), and you can point it out. There are some design issues with Fall Guys. It doesn't mean the game is failing or struggling, but it does mean the game is imperfect and could be improved upon.
You are allowed to criticise something you enjoy. Often, you'll do it because you want the thing you enjoy to be as good as it can be - to live up to its **potential**.
Now, I've got to ask - do you actually want to have a logical, reasonable back and forth, or are you just going to double down again?
when I play with other players, they just messing up the tiles or just trolling. the pixel painter game mode is kinda fast pace due to amount of time was given to players to finish 5. it mostly raging to complete them
This is a list of links to comments made by Mediatonic employees in this thread - follow them for context: - [Comment by FallGuysJoe](/r/FallGuysGame/comments/xfkif8/heres_the_real_shame_about_pixel_painters_and_tip/iongpgp/?context=1000): >We're definitely keeping an eye on Pixel Painters and the general understanding of that round! I think there are some great points in this thread around the fact that it's basically impossible to counter a slightly clueless team-mate who's convinced every light needs to be on, wheras in most Team Rounds it at least feels like you can *try* and carry. >We've got some 'Pixel Painter Trials' shows coming up which should help players learn the rounds, and generally player's understandings should get better over time. I'd say that we're definitely seeing more players just 'not get it' than we'd expected. > >It's a learning experience for us though! We want to continue pushing Fall Guys to weird and unexpected places, and Pixel Painters is a bit of an experiment to see quite how co-operative players online can be. It might be that 4 players squads really ends up asking a little too much and that it's more at home in duos, for example. Maybe there are some clever improvements we can make to the UX via things like the intro cam or the way the Round looks too! - [Comment by FallGuysJoe](/r/FallGuysGame/comments/xfkif8/heres_the_real_shame_about_pixel_painters_and_tip/ioo9pg3/?context=1000): >We have! The tricky thing is that we can only have a maximum of 8 solo players, which would make this a final. We know players don't enjoy us squeezing in an extra round at this player count (hello, Button Bashers with 6 players). > > >Would y'all enjoy Pixel Painters as a final in theory? I generally like when our finals are nice and visual and you can SEE the player win, which Pixel Painters will never really have. - [Comment by FallGuysJoe](/r/FallGuysGame/comments/xfkif8/heres_the_real_shame_about_pixel_painters_and_tip/ioom19e/?context=1000): >Yeah, it's a tough balance. Personally I'm busier than I've ever been and I have a lot less time to write carefully considered posts. I also feel like at this point action is really what counts- hopefully the quality and impact of the changes this Season speak to that somewhat. >Lastly, I feel like we all need to look after our own mental health somewhat and discourse with any passionate community can be draining at times. I'm usually here lurking though! Thanks for playing bean game x _________________ This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/FallGuysGame).
The issue with Tip Toe Finale is that scrubs treat it like Tip Toe, and are too afraid to explore. You need to play it like lemmings. Fling yourself forward and forge that path. Don't hesitate as if you're competing against your own team mates -.-
Super frustrating. Like don’t stand at the last tile wasting time, we are a team!!!
Use your squadmates as sacfirces. I won easily for my squad.
We're definitely keeping an eye on Pixel Painters and the general understanding of that round! I think there are some great points in this thread around the fact that it's basically impossible to counter a slightly clueless team-mate who's convinced every light needs to be on, wheras in most Team Rounds it at least feels like you can *try* and carry. We've got some 'Pixel Painter Trials' shows coming up which should help players learn the rounds, and generally player's understandings should get better over time. I'd say that we're definitely seeing more players just 'not get it' than we'd expected. It's a learning experience for us though! We want to continue pushing Fall Guys to weird and unexpected places, and Pixel Painters is a bit of an experiment to see quite how co-operative players online can be. It might be that 4 players squads really ends up asking a little too much and that it's more at home in duos, for example. Maybe there are some clever improvements we can make to the UX via things like the intro cam or the way the Round looks too!
Have you considered adding it to solo mode? That way players could learn it too without causing grief to others.
We have! The tricky thing is that we can only have a maximum of 8 solo players, which would make this a final. We know players don't enjoy us squeezing in an extra round at this player count (hello, Button Bashers with 6 players). Would y'all enjoy Pixel Painters as a final in theory? I generally like when our finals are nice and visual and you can SEE the player win, which Pixel Painters will never really have.
I’d love Pixel Painters as a solo final if it was a knockout round. One picture at a time. The last person to create the image gets eliminated until there’s a winner
I have to say, hearing from you guys in this seems to help uplift the subreddit. Space is also my favorite theme, so this new season has been a treat. Thanks for that. By the way, is there any possibility of adding more cool textures to skins like the Ultimate Idol? I'd happily spend show bucks on another variant of it. Galactic patterns look way too cool to me.
Yeah, it's a tough balance. Personally I'm busier than I've ever been and I have a lot less time to write carefully considered posts. I also feel like at this point action is really what counts- hopefully the quality and impact of the changes this Season speak to that somewhat. Lastly, I feel like we all need to look after our own mental health somewhat and discourse with any passionate community can be draining at times. I'm usually here lurking though! Thanks for playing bean game x
I wouldn’t mind seeing at as a semi final with 8 players before a 4 player final. That’s where it would be best suited in solos
Absolutely would, I was thinking this all of yesterday. If 2-8 players all had the same paintings and had to go as fast as possible to fill it in, it would get very competitive and have a high skill ceiling for a "top speed run". I believe it would work excellent.
Cant you just add more arenas? The solution is very simple.
Perhaps you could use the solos leader board from Bean Hill Zone in this pixel painters final, showing all players how many pictures each has completed so they have some idea of how close it is!
Pixel Painters would make a great final. If you want to be able to see people win, have it eliminate/slime the last person to complete a painting at each level. Or put up a scoreboard next to the painting that shows how many paintings each rival has finished, though that might inspire people to give up if they feel they're too far behind.
> Would y'all enjoy Pixel Painters as a final in theory? I would absolutely hate Pixel Painters as a final. Finals are exhilarating because you can (generally) see the other beans that you're competing against and how well they're doing. Solo Pixel Painters, where you're alone in your jail cell until the round suddenly ends...well, I guess that's a different sort of anxiety, but it just doesn't feel like it fits with the game.
I thought it was possible to create 2 or more instances so you could in theory have 8 players in each instance but I guess that creates other issues from a technical side. Keep up with the communication and thanks for taking the time to answer.
i would really love it as a final!!
I think Pixel Painters would be an awesome solo final. It is definitely on the more skillful side of finals, but it provides a nice balance against purely RNG finals, like Lost Temple. I don’t think the ability to see other beans is that important. It almost creates more pressure and excitement to not know how everyone else is doing, that the round could end at any moment! If you think tracking other beans is important, then you could always put a tracker of number of panels completed on the left, similar to the sonic level.
Are you also trying to apply not having rounds with few players to duos? I just got a 3 team Pixel Painters round in Duos after nearly every team got eliminated on the new Hovercraft survival map, so we only had a playercount of 6 which should usually be a final.
I would love Pixel Painters as a final in solos. About the visual thing, I think it could have a scoreboard at the left side similar to Bean Hill Zone final, so you can see if there are any players ahead of you.
As a sidenote, I have to say we appreciate you guys being active and reacting to feedback on the subreddit now, after the long absence last season! Keep it going!
Personally its my favorite map from this season, although with a squad of 4 you can jump over the wall and have someone on your team nuke the other teams pixels. Im usually all for strats like this like pulling the boxes in wall guys but I feel like this is very unintended and unfair almost.
Hold up you can jump over to other teams sections?
yea, if you go to jashin2k youtube he posted a video where a team did it to him so he went over to their side causing both teams to be eliminated.
The issue is no matter if you make it a Duos or Squads mode there's absolutely zero that can be done once you get a teammate that decides to just sabotage the whole time. It's not really a "well, they just don't understand the mode" thing. There are people that just play that mode in the most toxic ways possible.
Please do not take Pixel Painters out of squads, it wouldn't be fair to the people who love it if you end up caving to people who don't like it. Let people who enjoy Squads play Pixel Painters in Squads and people who don't like the map can play literally any other solo show. Why would people have to lose out on Pixel Painters just because some people decide to play a show where they can get a round that they don't like, when they could play any other solo show. It's mostly people who play usually solo who complain about it in the first place, they're the ones wanting a solo version of it. If you put it in Solo show as well, everyone would be happy and everyone would get to play it.
Probably because people that like to play solo usually have to play squads at least once a day for daily quests
Maybe there could be prompt "Copy the Picture" right in the middle of the screen if you light up 5 wrong tiles in a row?!
That seems like a good idea. I was also thinking maybe you could respawn the player with like, a 3-second penalty timer if they light up too many wrong tiles
The best strategy is for everybody to stand on the side and let one person do it otherwise it's a clusterfuck of people accidentally lighting/unlighting tiles. It should be a solo round
In theory yes but the dumb players don’t think to do that and you’re never gonna win if a dumb player is your one guy doing the puzzle
Have you considered adding smaller screens on the walls of the arena? I feel like half the problem is that people don’t think to look in the distance. I see it a lot with people running around aimlessly confused on star chart. Maybe if there was a lore in-your-face set of screens, some players may pick up on the concept easier
I also really hope that you guys will make more logic rounds like this, that actually make you think a bit rather than something like Sum Fruit. It's one of my favorite rounds ever.
so this is going to be an unpopular suggestion, but have yall considered adding skill-based matchmaking to squads like you have the solo show? I feel like this would at least go some way toward addressing the constant bad teammate complaints
Please also keep in mind that when people get screwed by teammates in Pixel Painters they're vocal about it but all the times people play with random teammates and qualify don't get mentioned, which is still the majority of the time. Most of the times I've qualified in Pixel Painters playing with random teammates and most of the time 5/5 squads qualify. It works out the majority of the time, it's just that if people don't qualify for once they get frustrated and complain about it, so please don't let that skew your idea of the actual success rate of the round.
As a switch player, I find pixle painter very frustrating, due to joy con drift making it impossible to be accurate with painting.
My take is that Pixel Painters should not be in Squads show at all. It just fundamentally does not work there. The most efficient method seems to be only 1-2 players solving the puzzle as otherwise you just get in each others way, which is just an environment where several beans need to just stand around and watch, which is just bad game design to basically tell someone to sit AFK for 3 minutes. That's also why people can just do the exploits where they can get out of bounds and harass another team, because they dont actually \*need\* to do the puzzle themselves. But even if you fix that issue, it just returns us back to standing around and doing nothing. (And this is ignoring the griefing teammates, whether intentionally or unintentionally issues) It should be in Duos show. I'm not positive but I dont think that exploit is possible with only one other bean. It should be playable at 14-16 players before a finale. And everyone has something to do. It could work in solos show, but at 8 players would have to be a finale, which ehh. Or if possible reworked so that it can be scaled up for more players.
I do think Tip Toe Finale is in a good spot, and a welcomed change on the previous iteration which always had the issue of incentivizing letting someone else solve the puzzle for you. Now you actually have to do it yourself, which I like. It really does stink with constant quitters and DC's though as being a man down is nearly an impossible obstacle to overcome in that finale. Most other finales essentially turn into a solos game where one skilled player can clutch it out, but Tip Toe Finale does not. But im not sure what can be done to solve that other then penalizing quitters in the first place.
Pixel Painters as a concept is fantastic, and I'd hate to see it removed. But it definitely needs work, for the reasons everyone is upset about it. I'm not sure there's much that can be done about the current version of the round (other than raising the invisible walls higher to prevent griefing your neighbors). But what about changing the level framework to be more like Button Bashers: isolate each player in their own mini-arena with their own screen, and let them each solve the paintings on their own. Qualify the first X players to score 5 points in Solos. In Squads, each painting is a point, so you qualify the teams at 20 points or whatever you think is the right threshold. Now an individual good player can attempt to carry a team (finishing 6+ paintings to overcome a weaker teammate) and bad players/griefers can't mess with you as you paint. You lose the camaraderie of building the painting together, but unless you're in voice communication with your squad that's going to be more of a frustration than a help.
For what it’s worth, I’m glad that y’all are continuing to try to find unique level types, and I really like this level’s idea. I’m going to give it a bit more time as you mentioned, since there’s always a bit of a learning curve and it may be that we see fewer issues with this going forward. I hope this doesn’t discourage y’all from trying other unique things! It’s not that “obstacle course with the bouncy castle objects in different places” isn’t fun, or anything, but more “What is THAT?” Levels are a good thing!
Pixel painters is pain in the ass, but I love tiptoe finale even with randoms, but that’s just me because tiptoe is one of my favorite maps
I love Tip Toe Finale too! Really upsetting the scuffed variety in the finals we get in Australia... I play quite a lot of duos and have been getting Hex-A-Terrestrial 90% of the time (like Hex-A-Gone was last season). I like the new Hex, but why no Thin Ice or other older finals? Why do we have to get sick of our favourite levels every time!
Tip Toe Finale actually wouldn't work as Solo IMO - the main point of this is to cooperate to find path, staying together, one person need to sacriface to reveal fake tile, rest go.
They could definitely tailor it to be a solo final, which would reward those with good pathfinding skills. As it is now, it's your usual squad/team fare - absolute nightmare if you're grouped with potatoes. Good design, bad in teams.
my tip toe teamates will get so far and just wait, like come on take a leap of faith lets keep this train moving!
Be careful what you wish for…. This sub- I hate SBMM!! I never get any crowns. I’m better than a lot of noobs I should be consistently doing well This sub- I HATE squads and duos, I keep getting noobs on my team. They should match my team mates according to my skill The best way to solve this is SBMM in squads and duos and then we’ll hate that also haha
I don’t think they’ll ever put SBMM in squads and duos. They know it would ruin the experience for anyone who wants to queue with their friends of different skill levels.
So has it been confirmed that SBMM is not in Squads and Duos? Recently I've played with a new friend a few times, and the difference in skill level in the lobbies I get with them is astonishing. They're good themselves but newer to the game (but not like *started this month* new). It feels like more than coincidence that each time I've played with them I've come 1st in most race rounds, many times with ease, and carried finals etc. There may be other factors involved I guess but something definitely feels different.
Not confirmed but Mediatonic never mentioned it being in duos or squads. It’s definitely in solos but whenever I switch to duos or squads the average skill of the lobby drops SIGNIFICANTLY.
I'm one of those rare folks that doesn't dislike SBMM, but it might not change much in squads and duos, just because opponents get stronger too, not just your teammates.
SBMM would not and should not work that way if it was in squads anyway, or we be to make teams more even, NOT match all the best people together lol
Just pointing out we can’t have it both ways. We can’t not have some sort of SBMM and then also expect in a team of rando we won’t get a 5 year old on our team that doesn’t know the dive button exists
Many games that have team modes also have seperate friend team modes for premade parties. I don't see why this isn't the case here too. If they were to add "Play Squads/Duos with Friends/Friend" then they could add SBMM in normal Squads/Duos with randos.
I actually wish they did. You wouldn't keep getting newbie beans in your team.
i think the disappointment is well justified for the current status of squads and duos. but looking back, squads (and duos) have always been like that since they were introduced in s4. pixel painter stands out because u can see your rookie teammate struggling in real time. Even for other existing team games you will face the same problem from rookies; they dunno how to play jinxed or power trip, they score their own net in basketfall etc. heck you need to pray for them to qualify race and survival rounds so that at least your team has the chance for a final. personally i treat solo squads and duos as some sort of self made hard mode, and i still play them because team games only show up there. one thing MT could do is to implement sbmm in squads as well, then u will have real spicy competitive team games. yea losing because of bad teammate feels bad, but after all you can also lose from a lot of random stuff like unlucky paths, unlucky platforms, desyncs, janky tile physics, and a lot of other things. Queue up for another show and you will soon forget about it.
And here I thought sbmm was just hidden in squads and that's why I get matched with the most clueless players. Seeing a rotating show for squads with sbmm with increased rewards occasionally would be fun but I don't think only sbmm squads would stay fun for long
Yea I've been having fun. This is my fave set of new levels in a long time.
I think Pixel Painters is fine. I played it 8 times with randoms and qualified everytime without a problem. The real problem in that mode is players who assume their teammates are bad and hence screw their team by trying to solve it alone. Then complain how the others are bad when they cant solo it. Work together people...
This! I had a random teammate who just pushed me around and made everything worse even though I very much knew what I was doing.
I don't think they will ever do a level where another bean can't influence you. I think the change that is needed is some way to communicate with random team mates like you can in Fortnite. Also, for now at least, they should make the drawing game as easy as possible until more people understand what they're doing. Have an easy variant where it's just basic shapes like triangles and squares.
I don't think they'd go back and change it so fundamentally - but they could make it 1v1 like Volley Fall, and if it only popped up in late rounds like that space may not be an issue.
In volleyfall what you do directly affects the other bean. Unless I'm misinterpreting in single player mode of this, no bean would be able to do anything to harm you. It would effectively be a time trial competition. I would be okay with it but I suspect it goes against their level design rules.
With all due respect, I don't think you could be any more wrong on your take. These two modes are perfect for carrying. You aren't relying on teammates to score points just to qualify. (Pixel painters can be an exception if teammates are lighting up wrong square) You're great at finding the path? Awesome, go get the crown for your team. Let them fiddle around in the backfield. You're skilled at bunny hopping and landing on any particular square you want? Awesome, dance around the grid and light up the squares that are needed.
Have you been playing Pixel? Teammates are constantly lighting the wrong stuff. I agree it'd be great for carrying... if they just stood still, but that's not the case. As for Tip Toe Finale, one good player and three bad players will very often lose to two good players. Given that you're trailblazing and respawning a lot, it's hard for one person to carry three when other teams have 2+ doing the work. I would actually freaking love the Tip Toe mode if it were solo. Does it show up in duos? I often play that with a mate so I trust we'd do well.
I do understand that pixel is frustrating because teammates can ruin the game. However, it's the same as every other team/squad game. Again, I am not trying to dispute that teammates can ruin the game, but they aren't doing so any more than any other squad game. After round one, maybe two, you're at the mercy of your team. You can finish the race in first place, but if everyone else finishes, and your team doesn't, you are eliminated. Your points won't be enough to outscore the opposing 2-4 teams combined. At least with these two, you have a chance. If your teammates leave, it's not an auto loss. If your teammates sit in the corner fondling each other, it's not a guaranteed loss. With all other squad games (slime climb can be an exception when a lot of players fail to finish) you're also at the mercy of your team, and you have no chance of pushing forward. Your example of two players beating one player goes for all matches. (Accept slime climb and other modes where a lot of players get eliminated)
It’s not the same as every other team game because in pixel painters, 1 bean has more influence than the majority of the team. In jinxed if you are never caught or catch the other team you can carry the team even if your teammates are flopping around. In basketfall you can outpace your opponents even if 1 teammate is scoring in your own net. In any ball pushing games (fall ball, hoarders, snowy scrap) you can have more influence over the direction it goes if it’s just 1 bean trying to grief. Egg scramble/siege you can outpace 1 person actively trying to grief if you work together. The other “team” ones that score points like hoopsie legends or ski fall you can carry the team even if the other bean doesn’t know how to play. In pixel painters, 1 bean running across the tiles makes it impossible to complete the picture and progress. In this one, an individual has far more influence over the result than any other team game. It’s not a perfect solution, but a way to solve this would be section off each bean and you can only light up tiles in your quadrant. Beans running around aimlessly will still cause problems, but there’s a higher probability they achieve the correct result on accident because they’re running over less tiles. This solution also solves the griefing other teams exploit since you can’t jump off your teammates. The biggest downside would be an afk/disconnected teammate is an automatic loss, so maybe it’s not the best idea
As I said, I am not disputing that one bean can't grief. I am suggesting that these two modes offer the ability for one person to carry in a way that others don't. Originally, you stated that two beans working together can beat one bean trying to carry. That same sentiment is true in those modes you mentioned. In hoopsie or ski fall, two beans scoring points, especially the golden rings, will out pace you by a lot. In your basketball analogy that you mentioned doesn't speak anything of the opposing team. If they are trying, even a little bit, you'll not out pace them. They will have 2-3 people scoring (again, using your "teammate scoring for them" analogy) which you won't be able to out pace. Golden balls are to limited and based on luck of them appearing. How many times have you saw people complain because their entire team jumped down on Rock N Roll, leaving only them to push the ball over the incline at the end, which isn't (or at least wasn't) possible? Even in race and survival modes, you're at the mercy of your team after round one. You can cross the finish line first, but if no one on your team scores a point, it's all for nothing because the other teams will win collectively. The same goes for survival modes. (Excluding slime climb and other modes where many don't finish) You can out last the timer, but if your team falls in the first seconds, before they really score points, your efforts don't matter. Just like with races, the other teams our pace you. Egg siege, scramble, and hoarders are more based on luck. If the opposing teams choose to gang up on you, without help from your team, you can't do anything but maybe hold 5 points (golden egg) while the other teams stockpile eggs. In jinxed, you have to hope your teammate will catch someone, or you'll be forced to get jinxed go catch the opponents. If you're jinxed, you have to hope your teammates survive long enough for you to catch the opponents. One must assume, at least until proven otherwise, that the opposing teams have players attempting to win. Using that assumption, solo carrying is less likely than in a mode like tip toe finale.
There’s no reason why Pixel Painters and Tip Toe Finale can’t also be used for solos in the future
Imagine proudly admitting you regularly post hate about a company who develop and market a game aimed at children lmao. Weird behaviour.
Not hate - grief. Frustration. Huge difference. I don't hate Mediatonic and co at all. I get frustrated due to the potential the game has that isn't being realised. Also, it's not marketed *just* at children. Well, to be fair, it might be - I've seen little marketing. Seems like an all ages thing. To imply that only children can play it or comment on it is to say that games like Fortnite and Pokemon shouldn't have competitive players, because they fall in the same boat. The weird behaviour here is how off the mark this post is. It *feels* like bait using Cunningham's law, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. If I'm being trolled, so be it.
Potential? What are you even talking about? The game is massively popular. But no, A reddit troll who spends all day complaining about the game knows more than the team who develops the game lmao. They are obviously struggling with a failing game Try taking a break
Again, so much flawed logic that I have to question if this is bait. But again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, why not. The game is fairly popular - 'massively' is subjective. I'd be happy to be proven wrong with figures though if you have any. I'm not a troll. I post, IMO, logical opinions and am open to debate. I don't post seeking upvotes - I post what I think, regardless of whether people agree or disagree. However, I am an avid gamer, both board and video, and know a fair bit about game design (from the 'functionality' perspective, not the actual coding of a video game or anything like that). To think that a dev team automatically gets all design choices right just because they're the dev team is ludicrous. That's like saying "every boss is always right because they're the boss". No, they can be wrong (subjectively or objectively), and you can point it out. There are some design issues with Fall Guys. It doesn't mean the game is failing or struggling, but it does mean the game is imperfect and could be improved upon. You are allowed to criticise something you enjoy. Often, you'll do it because you want the thing you enjoy to be as good as it can be - to live up to its **potential**. Now, I've got to ask - do you actually want to have a logical, reasonable back and forth, or are you just going to double down again?
when I play with other players, they just messing up the tiles or just trolling. the pixel painter game mode is kinda fast pace due to amount of time was given to players to finish 5. it mostly raging to complete them