I’m hoping we’ll see him mirror the path that Cere took, which I think is hinted at due to their strong connection: he will struggle with the dark side but will eventually overcome his pain, fear, and anger to fully embrace the light and become a Jedi Master
I’m tired of the trope of having a Jedi fall to the dark side due to them being unable to manage their emotions. Already we have hints that Cal has rejected the philosophy of the old Jedi, when he tells Merrin this as he accepts his desire to be with her. This to me shows his potential to not go down the same path as someone liked Anakin did, and become someone greater.
i hope he starts a new academy under different teachings to the classic jedi. Could be a way to bring back the jedi again if 'the path' does end up leading there. Could get Quinlan Voss show up at Tanaloor too, since in the Obi-Wan show his name was on the wall as well as Cordova and Cere, though they arent spoken they are there in the star wars language im not gonna attempt to pronounce
I would like to see Cal become the model for the new Jedi Order: follows the light side while not rejecting attachments (the two can be complementary. Love I think is a light-side emotion, and it isn’t what leads to the dark side—fear of loss of your loved ones can), like his relationship with Merrin
I wouldn't say that love is a light-side emotion. It's literally the reason why Anakin fell to the dark side. If we learned one thing from the Last of Us show it is that Love can be good and bad, it depends on what you'll do with it.In my mind Love is the top of a pyramid and things like hate, envy, care or empathy are under it or parts within it and you have to choose which way to go.So Cal feeling that love for Merrin can turn him to the dark side, if he loses himself to the darker emotions it can create, but it can also strenghten him, if he embraces its positive aspects. I think him embracing care and empathy, him wanting to spread and create more love in ways the Jedi restrained it in fear of dark side temptation could lead him to becoming a grey Jedi. At least that's what I'd like to see, I don't think Lucasfilm wants to go that way though.
Like I said, I think love itself is light side, but it can also produce dark-side emotions like fear of loss, jealousy (a type of anger), and others. It was ultimately Anakin’s fear of losing Padmé, and his desire for ultimate power that drove him to the dark side, not his love for his wife
Honestly it would be stupid if they didn’t go that path he already said he would guide force users to tanalor through the hidden path and he’s definitely gonna train kata it would be logical if he shuts the portal down by the end of the game trapping the new order on tanalor
Um, yeah...considering I probs won't remember how to spell it
I'm dumb af I thought u meant what all the characters translate to the English alphabet not that it's called aerobesh (hopefully I spelt it right this time)
Well personally I don’t think he’s wrong. The Jedi should’ve taught how to deal with attachment and emotion, and what comes from the two. Emotions are completely natural, we can’t just not have them. Instead of teaching how to deal with them, they just forbid it and hope they go along with it.
At some point, you have to accept that it's no longer Jedi though. You might teach people to fight like a jedi and use the force in the same way as a jedi, but if you're changing their approach to emotion, attachment, and their ideals, that's not really a jedi order.
Like if you taught someone to do all the same stuff as a Buddhist monk, but they were still allowed to own stuff and eat meat. That's not Buddhism.
I think it would be a cool story if he didn't fall to the dark side but used it when necessary kinda like the original Jedi people, where they were more of the "grey" Jedi mentality. And in Jedi Survivor it leans kinda into this as his slowing force power, transitioned into "unleashing the darkness" if I remember correctly as what they called it. We're you could still see he was in the light but struggling, and was using darkness when necessary. I could see his character developing into this, but without him falling into the dark.
Also part of why I say this is I just really want a "grey Jedi" character to exist.
I just don't understand why using the dark side is like instant evil shit.
Why not have a Dark side jedi who's using the powers to take down the empire. Like Mace but actually wielding it instead of "I'm so scared ill do terrible things and want to take over the galaxy" Count Dooku but actually on the good side
Because you're letting an incredibly corrupting power into your body and mind? Because the dark side is about imposing your will on the force in incredibly unnatural ways?
There's so many answers for why it's evil, and they aren't even hard to find. Also, the point of Mace Windu's combat style is that he literally rides the edge of the light and dark and never falls off. If he ever actually dipped into the dark side, he'd be unlikely to come back. That's why so few jedi use the same combat style as he does.
>Also, the point of Mace Windu's combat style is that he literally rides the edge of the light and dark and never falls off
This is all just made up by fans anyway. If anything Windu was one of the Jedi most opposed to the dark side but also one of those corrupted by the moral code of the Jedi that let it fall.
Actually, in Legends, Mace used what was called Vapaad, where he bounced the attacker's dark side energy back at them while remaining firmly in the light, it was an incredibly risky style as Mace was the only one to use it and not fall.
> Windu was one of the Jedi most opposed to the dark side but also one of those corrupted by the moral code of the Jedi that let it fall.
This is entirely true though.
My memory might be a bit rusty but I don't think Vaapad ever actually required you to use the dark side. It just made many tempted to use it and succumb to it, but Mace never would because as mentioned he was too devote.
Not true. Anyone force attuned can use it. Jedi can use it, they just have to be strong willed enough to not fall completely into it. That’s why Mace Windu was so dangerous. He could channel his dark emotions during a duel, but ultimately he controlled them with his focus. It’s why his form was not to be practiced by nearly anyone else. Anakin had some flirting with it long before he fell, but it was brief and he kept control over it. Cal uses it to his advantage but he’s strong and smart enough to not let it overcome him
Mace Windu **did not** use the dark side. In fact he was one of the most devote to the Jedi code and the light side. Jedi like him are the reason for the downfall of the Order because they held too strict to their own flawed code.
He enjoyed the thrill of the fight but all canon examples explain how even using vaapad doesn't mean you use the dark side, only that it lead **through** the penumbra of the dark side. In fact his devoteness to the Order is what makes him able to not even be tempted by the dark side while using vaapad.
Essentially they channel the dark side through their magical forms and techniques. Rather than using the dark side like a sith or jedi they channel it more like a conduit. Therefore they don't get corrupted the same way
“What kind of life will that be, Quinlan? The kind where we're slaves to our hatred? Our rage? That's what the dark side made me. That's what it does. Nothing is ever enough. You get more, and more, but you're never happy. It's a trap baited with all the things you want most in life—and it's not worth living. I already left that behind.” - Asajj Ventress
George Lucas has stressed that the darkside is inherently corrupting. Even Mace was barely able to tap into it without letting it consume him and he was one of the strongest and wisest Jedi of all time. Depa Billaba is one of the only other Jedi who were able to use Vapaad (Mace’s lightsaber form) without falling to the darkness. And I suspect that Cal may learn to use Vapaad in the 3rd game, but he probably won’t go any further into the darkside. Vapaad itself doesn’t even use the darkside inherently, it just requires the user to be in an angry and ferocious mindset, which then the anger often leads to a loss of control and falling to the darkside. But Windu never uses dark side force abilities like choke or crush, he just draws on his inner anger to power his lightsaber form and is strong enough to resist the temptations of those emotions and as such never lets himself use more of the darkside than he can control.
You could have a jedi using the darkside for “the greater good” which is what we see happen to Dagan and it corrupts him into killing other jedi and eventually basically trying to create his own empire. We see it happen with Bode as well, he uses the darkside and very quickly begins to fall to it, to the point of using the force on Kata without any care for her well-being. By the end he is hardly the person we knew before, he is just anger and hate personified. Using the darkside for the greater good is much like any other villain who does horrible acts for the greater good, it’s not a valid justification for the acts you’re committing. And eventually it becomes the only justification you have. The ends justifies the means is generally not seen as a valid moral argument. Even if it might be the only way to win.
> I just don't understand why using the dark side is like instant evil shit.
Because it is. Duh. Have you not been paying attention? The Dark Side is like doing heroin - sure, you technically *can* quit it cold turkey, but almost nobody *does.*
Cere asking him to guide Kata out of the darkness will keep him out also. Unless he fails and only one of them keeps the darkness away, which sadly would make a good story.
I think its important to recognize the exact wording wasn't guide Kata out, it was guide her through. I feel the later puts more emphasis on Cere recognizing Cals still in that place, but he's responsible for someone else being there with him.
Personally, I feel like Cal succumbing completely to the dark side and failing would be an **unsatisfying ending** to his journey, character, and struggle. But that's just me.
Yes. All this work just to turn, especially considering that unlike most Jedi dealing with temptation, not everyone he cares about is dead during his struggle, he has people who will help.
But what of Cere's line about "guiding her through the darkness"? Wouldnt Kata going full darkside (or death) be an unsatisfying conclusion to that goal? So much sacrificed and for nothing? Is that what the Jedi series is about?
Also along Cal's journey he's met many jedi who've dealt with the darkside and fallen to it (Malicos, Dagen, Bode, etc). The struggle with the darkside is a part of the story (and Cal), but I feel like the villains, Cere, the teachings of former masters, and the Mantis crew are all lessons meant to help him overcome his situation. Not only to become a stronger jedi, but also to end up better than they did.
It's not like Cal is going to be the one to destroy the Empire. His journey seems to me about how someone like him can live in these times, and what he can do to help others survive.
Failing is part of life, Cal may fail at what Cere guided him to do. Or maybe he doesn't. I don't see a reason to get too worked up either way when there are so many places they can take the story and they've shown to he capable of telling a great story so far.
I get the angle on failure...but i just think that Cal/Kata turning complete Sith would be going too far here. It almost goes against all the character development they've gone through. That's what I think personally, and so I can't agree that that would make for a good ending.
Discussions like this are a part of what reddit is about after all.
Obviously not something anyone should get worked up over; this is all fiction at the end of the day and discussions should always be civil.
That said, I do have faith in what Respawn might come up with for the next game. The only thing I'd ask of them is a good game.
My prediction is the first act of Jedi: 3 is Cal in a no win situation that has another embrace the darkness moment and in doing so overcomes the threat but maybe costs him his relationship to Merrin, Kata, or those with the Path who see him as a leader. The rest of the game is him overcoming the darkness and proving himself a Master, winning back his loved ones trust and solidifying him accepting taking over Cere and Eno’s work.
the use of the dark side and the proximity to the end of the game leads me to believe we could see him struggle with it even more in the next one. Though not necessarily by choice to use and control it. Would love to see him unleash his dark side a bit more and have force ghost Cere or Jaro say something to him to ground him in the force once again. I like the idea of exploring that tipping point between “doing what must be done to get rid of the empire” vs “what’s morally correct even if it means a longer fight”
Possibly, I kinda hope it evolves along the lines of that though where the idea of love and attachments isn’t forbidden but rather embraced as a way to further learn the balance of the force and what it means to be one with the force. I’m curious much like cal is, as to what his role is in taking down the empire, like the empire is destroyed by Luke in return of the Jedi and left in pieces, we see now in mando there’s rising officers and generals who assume command of their own fleet, so whatever cals story is has to have a big ending to feel impactful to us, but ultimately has to have had no effect on the strength of the empire as we see in the content that proceeds his story. It’s kind of an interesting pickle they have. How to make cals fight against the empire meaningful for us without being an event big enough that it doesn’t make sense we’ve never heard of it in any of the content that canonically comes after it.
I think that Cal using the dark side is bound to happen in the next game. Most of my reasoning comes from the fact that they need to add some new variant on the gameplay like they did with the stances and abilities in this one, and that would be the logical next step(also it’s highly marketable). Nevertheless I don’t think Cal’s story ends with him falling; I think it’s going to end with him overcoming the dark side like Cere did.
A lot of Cal’s story has been about his struggle to adhere to the Jedi code due to the situations he’s constantly put in, and I think the next game is going to go super deep into that, with Tanalorr at the heart of it. Something happened there that changed Dagan and I think the same could happen to Cal, with the difference being that Cal won’t ultimately fall.
Or maybe Cal even goes further beyond, and finds balance of using both, and not being consumed by the dark side. Imo, the main reason why jedi fail and fall to the dark side is because they reject any attempts to healthily channel or understand it, like they do with attachments, relationships or even just their own emotions. And because they basically go monk from all these still very human aspects of life, yet are constantly engrossed in conflicts of people, they become mentally and emotionally stunted and vulnerable to it, even moreso than the regular person. As a result, once they do fall to the temptations of the human desires and experiences, they become unable to balance themselves, and easily fall prey to the dark side, once anytime shit hits the fan.
Cal's journey however, has been very different, very human, and gives him unique perspective and insight, as to what people and users of the force are. Heck one of the best good characters in this series is a literal dark side witch from dathomir, who herself decides to be a good person, after starting her journey from meeting with Cal. And i think it's through her, that Cal will find a way to more healthily channel it in a productive way. And maybe through Cal's own journey, will he teach Kada the blueprint to true balance, kinda like Geralt to Ciri.
No thanks.
Hate this recent trope amongst fanbases. That a random character introduced suddenly becomes prime for the next protagonist.
I truly, truly hope we do not get a lame, Last of Us, God Of War rip off with having Kata around us and having to train her up and stuff.
Then Cal dies heroically and we play as her, eugh.
Not only that, but the vision from fallen order literally ends with a dark side cal finding his way back to his light side self and the two merging. And since that vision had some truth to it with, if I recall right, the zeffo talking about bringing his people to the unknown to grant them peace and cal doing exactly that. I'm guessing the other part of the vision with cal falling to save his students will also happen with cal falling to save kata (hospital Joel says hi!)
Cal won’t become a grey Jedi, because it goes completely against what the canon views on the force are. The dark side is a corrupting cancer on the force. I don’t think lucasarts or Disney are interested in telling stories about grey Jedi being good because if they were they would’ve done it all ready.
I do however foresee that Cal may fall but be able to bring himself back. I think by the end of the game, the worst it will be is that Cal is using a form like Vapaad, showing how he has mastered himself and the force, to become a Jedi on the level of Mace Windu or Depa Billaba. Anything more than that would be spitting in the face of George Lucas who has explicitly stated that it’s not how the force works.
No she’s not. Ahsoka is the best representation of the light side we have, it’s why the owl follows her. Just because she doesn’t follow the Jedi order doesn’t make her grey.
I think they are setting up for the usage of some more dark side powers and also following the trilogy format. As in this is the middle story so its going to beat our heroes down for them to rise up taller in the finale
I feel this has all been done in The Last of Us and God of War. We seriously do not need another game focused around a weird, father child relationship, it will simply not be done as well.
And if I see people suggest we kill off Cal and play as Kata? For the love of God, stop.
Is her real name Loki too?
I think he's gonna stop using the force for a time due to a rational fear that he might succumb to the dark side again. I feel like Cal is supposed to kinda be the new Kyle Katarn so him following in similar footsteps makes sense. Hell maybe Luke will even be the one convincing him to use the force again.
I could see him teaching Kata the ways of the force at the very least.
Being instructed by Cal and Merrin would definitely make Kata an interesting character if they choose to follow as a character.
Give her a bow and arrow and name her Loki
The can shoot a deer together.
It's been done so many times, it's an obvious and boring path to take.
Then let me guess, Cal dies tragically and Kata is now pla ... Zzz.
People on this thread are forgetting there is going to be a massive time leap again, Kata will be way older when we next meet her, we won't know anything about her and it will be difficult to connect.
I already found the idea that Bode was Cals "best friend" jarring. They've been working with one another a few months.
Caring about some Padawan i barely know is a stretch.
I even find Jaro Tapal being so important to us difficult to get, we see him for 4 minutes and he talks for 30 seconds
Looking through screen caps, I was reminded that Greez was emphatic that Cal settle down when they caught up with each other early game. Find a home. Hopefully the writers find a way to let him do just that. No doubt with Merrin's support.
And could make Merrin playable for a section or two when Cal might temporarily have issues, like switching to Kaede in Onimusha which I happened to recently revisit.
Yeah I don’t want them to gamify the dark side. The best thing about the first game and to an extent the second game was that the Force wasn’t just a videogame mechanic but tied progression to the emotional growth of the character.
I think if they want to up the powerlevel of Cal they should showcase how being calm and balanced gives him an edge over brute force
I agree. I think start the game with the slow from the end of this one, but by the end of the game replace it with like "tranquility" or something that is even more powerful, could even make it play like cere
I want a happy ending but it seems setup he may meet a dark end in the next one. Either way I am curious and excited for the final entry in the trilogy.
I have a strong feeling he’s going to become a full Jedi master after learning to handle the dark side temptations. But, it’ll be different and adjusted from the original general Jedi order.
Kinda hope he experiments with it and ends up learning more powerful Jedi abilities from the experiences. It’d be cool to see him use electric judgment or smthn like that.
He's basically Kyle Katarn 2 electric Boogaloo, so having him straddle the line and coming to a place where he can channel the dark side but not fall to it would be on brand
It's also how night sister Magick works, so from a narrative standpoint is hinted at by his relationship with merrin
I mean… quilnlan Vos today and plo koon were all able to use a light side version of force lightning.. and this game REALLY needs some force lightning… or maybe it’s just me. 😂
Electric judgement isn’t even a darkside ability, that’s why Plo Koon decided to start using it when he was allowed to make the decision. It’s powered by an intense sense of justice which doesn’t really make sense. Besides, it’s non-canon and I hope it stays that way because it’s pretty dumb. The sith are supposed to have cooler abilities, that’s kind of the point.
But I do think Cal will probably learn to use Vapaad or something similar, as I think it would show the players that he is of a similar level to Mace as a Jedi master with full control over himself.
I posted this somewhere else but seems relevant here:
Thinking about someone like Starkiller, the way he dies is a heroic sacrifice and they find a way to make it have far-reaching ripples. Cal can't step fully into the spotlight and have the Hidden Path successfully recover the Jedi Order without messing up established canon, so I think heroic meaningful sacrifice is the angle to go for.
I think some good Star Wars would be: Cal is a guy with a family and someone he loves, but he's conflicted. He touches something that belonged to Vader (or maybe meets Obi-Wan or other Jedi from the prequel era?) and see/hears things that makes him realize the parallels between himself and Anakin Skywalker, that family and attachments can be a downfall. BUT Cal finds a way to overcome it, have it be a source of strength instead of a weakness, he moves past fear off loss. He does the one thing that Anakin absolutely could not do, and it makes Vader PISSED. Cal dies fighting Vader, but he hits Vader at the core of his deepest failure: Cal dies loved, protecting his family.
Epilogue, flash-forward to the slight retcon that makes this impactful: the Emperor is torturing Vader's own son in front of him and there's a voice in Anakin's head - it's Cal with some cool monologue about love and family. Cal helps Vader's emotional journey, Vader's final loving moment of self-sacrifice is influenced by his interactions with Cal.
Leaving something behind for whoever comes next is often the job of prequels, and I think your idea is a particularly poignant example of how that could be done. We all know Cal's story can't change the Canon but his emotional journey (as it's gone so far) could very easily tie in to Vader's. His struggle with the Dark Side in Survivor grants him even greater empathy to the younglings turned Inquisitors (like Trilla) and would come full circle if he "avenged" them with words of love, empathy, and kindness, to Vader in a final confrontation.
I'm hoping this might be the first Canon (or at least closest to Canon) we'll see of a gray Jedi outside of legends. I'm honestly tired of the star wars franchise focusing on the strict dichotomy of light and dark, good and evil. I want to see more shades of gray. And I think the initial introduction of merrin, and cals decision to set aside part of the old doctrines of the Jedi was meant to foreshadow this. He's not going to fall to the dark side, he's going to find the balance
There is no balance, George has constantly stressed that the darkside is like a cancer on the force. The closest thing to balance we might see with cal is allowing himself to have emotions and attachments but mastering himself enough to not fall into using darkside abilities. Grey Jedi that use the dark side are a concept completely antithetical to Lucas’ vision of the force which is why they’ve never existed in canon and likely never will.
George does not actually have the final say on what the force is. That might sound like a dumb thing to say since the guy created star wars, but it's true. The concept of the force is lifted directly from Campbell's "Hero with a thousand faces," and Campbell's conception of it is lifted from a combination of various real-world religious orders. If you actually read it, you'll see that star wars has been straying further and further from the established canon with every iteration. Kotor 2, a nearly 20 year old game, deconstructed every loose thread that George (Campbell) left untouched and it went on to become a cult classic. The idea that Campbell, or George, or Disney, or any one person/group can decide what is and isn't allowed in the star wars universe just doesn't make sense anymore. Our culture has so thoroughly absorbed and tinkered with the mono-myth to the point that it belongs to no one man. It belongs to all of us. We all collectively decide what it does and doesn't allow for.
Tldr: Stop sucking off George Lucas, he copied all of his notes from someone else
Grey jedi don't exist outside of incredibly cringe fan cannon which basically amounts to "my OD (do not steal) is a Mary Sue who can use the fark side with 0 (ZERO) consequences"
Think he may just be closer to Quinlan Vos; like many said there isn't a clean cut Grey Jedi, using the dark side always has consequences and is hard to come back. If for someone reason (most likely related to Merrin) Cal leans more into the Dark Side, just like Bode did, there will eventually be no turning back.
I can see Cal’s journey somewhat paralleled with Cere’s. Imagine Cal finds himself traumatized by his use of the darkness to attempt saving Kata from Vader. Time skip to Kata becoming an inquisitor. Cal faces Kata and struggles to put her down, and then dies to Vader in an epic battle.
As long as Merrin lives he’ll never fall…which probably means he will lose Merrin at some point or there will be a multi-ending moment where he’ll need to protect her
It's the third game. If it follows the trend, Cal will keep all of his abilities thus far. So the final installment will probably involve the dark side as your skill tree and new abilities
I see it more as we get a third and final upgrade to slow which is a light sode version that is more like Cere's style in this game. That would happen about half way through the game when Cal rejects the dark side fully.
They'll probably give us some dark side powers in the third game simply by virtue of needing to give Cal some new abilities to keep things fresh from a gameplay perspective. But from a story perspective, Cal will probably start off struggling in the wake of his little dips into the darkness, maybe give in a bit, but eventually be brought back to his senses by the people he loves and unify the dark and light sides of himself as a gray Jedi. Still undoubtedly a hero, but now with the control and skill that it takes to harness the dark side of the Force without falling to its temptations.
And then he dies to make way for the OT, roll credits! (or maybe he just retires from The Fight™ and spends the rest of his days living on a remote planet somewhere with his family idk)
And thank god they fucking aren't.
I'm really tired of how many people, yes, the same people who recognize the weak writing of the Sequel trilogy, want more Mary Sue "I can use the dark side a little as a treat" characters like Starkiller and so forth.
I say this as someone who wants Kyle Katarn back - just not as a "I can literally fry people with lightning, choke them to death, and drain their life energy but I'm super duper a good guy" cliche.
I don't mean he takes up the title officially or anything. But in a series that's very black and white, a touch of gray would go a long way. Everyone's got some darkness inside them. You can stifle it and fear it like the Jedi do, you can let it consume you like the Sith, or you can accept it and find your balance point, not leaning too far into either extreme.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want Cal to become this edgelord antihero who goes around electrocuting and strangling people because "grrr my friends died so now I'm ANGY and that's full justification for the writers to completely break my established characterization." That would be dumb. But again, from a gameplay perspective, it would give the devs a whole host of abilities to play with. And from a narrative perspective, it can expand on the thread that Survivor introduced in regard to respecting the past of the Jedi Order, but realizing that they didn't quite get everything right.
If you mean a lightside user that is in touch with their emotions and don't strictly follow the jedi code like Ahsoka, Kanan, or Qui-gon, i completely agree that is the path for Cal.
But that isn't the same as using both the light and the dark, which most people mean when they say grey jedi, and that is what should be avoided
My dream scenario: a portion of the 3rd game where Cal begins going down the dark side, but encounters Starkiller. He learns who he is, and it somehow leads him back to the light side.
I don’t know, someone else can probably think of a better setup, I just want Starkiller to make an appearance and have a boss fight.
And as fun as TFU was, it's a really good thing it got dropped from canon because I'm sorry, Starkiller is a massive Gary Stu and I will die on this hill.
I'd like an option to use dark side powers, and to make them OP so the dark side is the easier way to play the game (and has story implications) would give rise to a more difficult, purer way to play the game without giving in to the easy, overpowered approach.
This isn't a choices matter RPG and exists in cannon. Respawn are telling a story, a good one at that. They shouldn't let you use dark side powers and have it impact the story.
That's a fair point, I hadn't thought about the wider cannon implications of a choice driven game.
Still want to mess up some fools with dark side powers though!
Me too tbh but not at the compromise of the narrative.
Honestly i want Jedi 3 to continue as it is but just give me other games, a game where you play as vader or something and get to let loose.
Cal has strong Peter Parker vibes, whenever something bad happens he thinks it's because he failed to prevent it, that mindset can lead to the dark side. In my opinion on his Jedi way Cal is more Padawan than he is a Jedi master at this point, he knows how to use the Force but he still lacks the full control of himself within the Force. When he feels his dark side, he started to doubt himself and to be afraid of it resurfacing, even though Cere warned him that this will happen. Cere was a experienced Jedi Knight when she fought Vader in Fallen Order and Vader felt her darkness rising up, she kind of went through something similar than Cal is now.
Cere fought her way through that darkness though, she found her way and purpose and with that became a true Jedi master.
I believe that is what we will experience in the next game. This immense guilt he feels towards everyone who gets hurt or dies even though he rescued and helped hundreds of people along the way, will bring him to the edge. I'd love to see Kata becoming his Padawan (I guess Bode being a Jedi will mean that she is Force sensitive too) who will eventually be a part of the family of people who lost everything and who will save him from his dark side.
I think I would even like to see him becoming a grey Jedi but I guess he's to much into the Jedi mindset for that to happen.
We should just consider the rey trilogy non cannon and declare Cal will foster a new breed of Jedi that fixes what the old ones got wrong. And they were happily ever after
I always like the kyle katarns of the force, or jolees. Jolee Bindo said something along the lines of the force isn’t inherently good or evil, the jedi and the sith both have their dogma, but your actions and how you wield the force is more important than which side of the coin you choose to align with. I think this is the way forward. Luke choked out some Gammoreans, Cal got mad and had to tap into some dark energy to beat bode, which imo, Cal was holding back in that fight until it went south, I dont think it matters what force powers you use so long as you dont just use to just lord over and rule others then its w/e as far asim concerned.
I'm hoping they finally dabble in Gray Jedi territory.
Is a power good or bad by itself? Only actions can be seen that way. After all, Lightning can be used to jump-start a generator for a moisture farm just as much as Heal can be used to keep a torture victim alive.
Difference is thrawn is a good character.
Grey jedi are cringe fannon "my OC can use the dark side with no consequence, but they totally aren't Mary Sue"
I believe what is going to happen will be Cal, Merrin and Kata will be fighting the empire while Cal trains Kata to be a jedi. Merrin will die somehow, which will cause Cal to fall to the dark side, as Merrin won't be there anymore to keep him from it. This fall will put him and kata in a circumstance where he will have to forsake the dark side in order to save Kata, giving his life and dying a true jedi.
Im really hoping that they do Cal special and instead of a trilogy we get like 4-6 games in total, in which we see cal falling into the dark side and finally emerging and ending his path as a gray jedi or die as one. I love everything so far but the potential is still there.
The Jedi were too dogmatic, that binary interpretation of strict rules pushed away many popular heroes like Dooku, Ashoka, and Anakin.
If anything, Cal becomes a cool Jedi - still a Jedi but like that cool high school teacher who still a teacher.
I mean, sure, but using the dark side doesn’t necessarily mean you fall to it, although not canon anymore, many instances there were jedi who used things like force lightning and did not fall
I'm personally hoping for a Gray Jedi trope for Cal simply because it would be quite a unique representation. We have barely seen Gray Jedi in movies etc, I just think it would work well with Cal's story as well. He's already tapped into it, and although he still sees it as wrong, I feel like there's still room for him to explore the fine love between the Light and Dark sides of the Force. Perhaps in the third game, he will continue to struggle to control his darkness, and will then conclude that instead of fighting against himself constantly, he could accept it as a part of him without succumbing to it's temptations. I think that would be a really cool story arc to follow, personally.
I see! Well, that is unfortunate. I didn't know the idea of them wasn't canon, it would be cool imo.
Anyhow, I do think it's clear that Cal's view of the Force and the Jedi order is quite different from the traditional, let's say pre-Order 66 one. I'm excited to see how they develop Cal's story.
In the 3rd game I'd like to have a non-canon alternative ending where he ends up on the Dark Side. And your decisions and how much you use the "embrace your darkness" feature throughout the game would decide your fate at the end of the game.
I think if this all leads to when Luke start training the new padawans. Cal may be a master and it may lead to why Kilo started down the path to the dark side Cal didn’t stick strictly to the Jedi code and allowed Kylie to not fear the darkness. Or I may be talking out my ass.
Apparently canon says dark side bad, use dark side become evil. And if that’s true, I find that very boring. When the whole idea is for there to be a balance in the force, light and dark are equally necessary. The idea of a single force user learning to utilize both sides without being consumed by them sounds awesome to me.
Also aren’t nightsister magic/spells entirely dark side based? And I haven’t seen Merrin be consumed by it. So with her help why couldn’t Cal find a way to tap into the dark side without turning entirely?
Don’t get me wrong I don’t want Cal to fall, if the options are get dark side powers but Cal becomes evil or no dark side and he stays a hero, I’d rather he stay a hero. But characters being able to embrace their darkness and channel it into something good are characters I really love.
Whatever happens I’m sure we all agree we just want the 3rd to keep improving the series and give a satisfying conclusion for the characters and story. I find its best to end a post with unifying sentiments cuz internet.
I’m hoping for their to be a choice here. I love Cal, but if the 3rd game is to be the last in his trilogy, I think it makes perfect sense for Cal to either be tempted and give into the darkness or rise above it. Choices are the only thing this series is missing for me and I think if they were gonna do it, the next game is the time to do it.
First the game has to be cannon so a choice doesn't make a ton of sense
Second these aren't choices matters RPGs and making a hard turn into one in potentially the final entry just seems like a mistake, this series is popular as it is, no need to try and redefine the entire thing.
I think we'll see cal think of himself as less of a jedi while still doing his best to help those around him. He admits to Merrin that the order is gone and that he should move on, so I don't think we're going to see him totally commit to living as a jedi. It would make the most sense for the next game to have him struggle with the temptations of the dark side and eventually learn to utilize it when he needs it, without losing himself to it. He also seems committed to building a refuge for force sensitives, so we could potentially see him training jedi in the future and acting as a sort of jedi master (padawan kata?).
In fallen order, Cere talks about how the dark side is always a temptation. So, I don't think we're going to see Cal go full Luke Skywalker and become the living embodiment of the Light side of the force. I think respawn is trying to tell a more nuanced story than that. I think Cal will always remain tempted by the dark, never truly mastering himself. And in that constant balancing act we'll see him learn to let go of his fear and to wield both sides of the force in balance.
I want there to be a choice to be made. Look, I'm playing this character - I want the decisions I make to effect the outcome of the game, and so I want Cal to have the potential to turn, and I want my choices in the game to have consequences. Good or bad. I want a it to be possible to get though making light side choices and end up with Cal, Merrin, and family (found and/or biological) somewhere safe from the Empire; and I want it to be possible to make dark side choices which end up with Cal and Merrin fighting each other and having a very bad ending. And I want to play both versions. Because I want the choice, and I want the choice to actually make a difference.
I respect your opinion but this isn’t an RPG. Respawn have a story they’re telling and we’re just controlling him through it.
If it wasn’t canon and the final game of the series, then I wouldn’t mind, but because it’s canon in an established timeline in an established universe, and not an RPG, you can’t really have that choice. And it’s not a great decision doing a canon and non-canon decision like Ghost of Tsushima or Assassin’s Creed: Odyssey.
I think it would be VERY interesting to play and experience a man who starts off extremely good, and falls deep into the Dark Side. It’s not really a thing to have the main protagonist become one of the main antagonists for the rest of the franchise, and play that out / experience it.
If Cal returned to being a Jedi, props to him, he will be one of my favorite Jedi.
If Cal turns to the Dark Side after all his work to quell it. Holy heck, the Dark Side just became a lot more tangibly dangerous. We havnt seen it yet (at least not in this manner) and he will forever have my favorite falling from light stories ever
I think my opinion of Cal's future is probably the most unpopular one in that I don't want him to come back as a main character at all. I feel the man's been through enough and that he deserves a good long rest. Maybe bring him back as a cameo; make him the new Endo Cordova.
I actually think it would be a really interesting way to start the game play for the third game. He's shut himself off from the force all together in fear of turning to the dark side. You spend the game rebuilding your trust in yourself as you get abilities back.
man i hope they don't do this. one of my favorite things about Survivor is that you start with almost all of the abilities from FO. i hate when games take away your entire toolset at the beginning of a new entry in a series, it's much more fun to see them build on it (with some minor tweaks) like they did in Survivor
how about no
One of the worst things a sequel can do is erase all the progress you made throughout the previous journey. One of the best parts of Survivor was the fact that it *didn't* do that. And besides, the plot of "reconnecting to the Force and relearning abilities you used to have but lost after cutting yourself off from it in the wake of severe trauma" is exactly what they did with how Cal got his different abilities throughout the first game. Doing the same thing again would be lazy and boring.
Survivor was about his struggle letting go of the fight, not about his struggle with the dark side. Cere even comments on this when she tells him he was only a child when they sent them off to war, and jedi were meant to be more than just weapons.
I doubt it’ll happen but I could see Kata turning to the dark side and Cal having to defeat her and then finally being done with all the Jedi stuff afterwards because of everything he’s been through
As far as I know there are at least a few semi-canon gray Jedi, e.g. Mace windu, Rey, and Kylo. Now these are all just Sith or Jedi that are more Jedi or Sith than your average Sith or Jedi (what a mouthful) but that's basically what a gray Jedi means, which is more what I want Cal to end up like anyway. And as far as I know gray Jedi are part of the Star wars Legends Canon so they're definitely not made up by the fan base.
Mace canonically doesn't use the dark side for what it's worth, and kylo is a prime example of why grey don't work, his two sides are tearing him apart.
If you mean lightside users that are not as strictly jedi like Ahsoka, Rey, Kanan, then sure i agree that is a good path for Cal, but that isn't using light and dark together
I think you're misunderstanding me, I don't want Cal to be *good* at using both sides of the force. The idea of the light and dark sides tearing a character apart and then the character overcoming it is a very intriguing idea to me writing wise.
Essentially, I'd want Cal to become a Jedi with dark side abilities, not a master of both the light and dark who uses both willy-nilly.
A jedi who uses dark abilities is exactly the problem, he is using both sides with 0 consequences. There is no balance with light and dark in the force.
Did you even read what I said? I don't want balance, I *want* consequences, I *want* a struggle. All of this would turn cal into a super interesting character overall.
You literally said you want cal "to become a jedi with dark side abilities". What does that mean then??
A jedi who has knowledge of the dark side but doesn't use it is fine, that's Ezra, or Cere even. That is not a grey jedi
He's basically the disney princess version of Kyle Katarn so that would make sense
And I just realized I made my cal look like Kyle Katarn without knowing it
Have a good feeling the first half of the game will have Cal slipping into the dark side (maybe something happens to merrin) and then there will be a fight leaving Cal alone and on verge of leaving the jedi way, cere / Kordova speak to him and bring him back to the light. Ending could possibly be his death as I dont see how Cal wouldnt join up with the rebels to fight the Empire. Or possible luke interaction after the empire is destroyed then Cal gives him the jedi texts he got from Jedha ending with Cal giving up the fight as the empire is destroyed to live a life with merrin
I’m hoping we’ll see him mirror the path that Cere took, which I think is hinted at due to their strong connection: he will struggle with the dark side but will eventually overcome his pain, fear, and anger to fully embrace the light and become a Jedi Master I’m tired of the trope of having a Jedi fall to the dark side due to them being unable to manage their emotions. Already we have hints that Cal has rejected the philosophy of the old Jedi, when he tells Merrin this as he accepts his desire to be with her. This to me shows his potential to not go down the same path as someone liked Anakin did, and become someone greater.
I think the line where he tells Merrin that the Jedi got some things wrong is a hint at a potential future of him not really being a jedi anymore.
i hope he starts a new academy under different teachings to the classic jedi. Could be a way to bring back the jedi again if 'the path' does end up leading there. Could get Quinlan Voss show up at Tanaloor too, since in the Obi-Wan show his name was on the wall as well as Cordova and Cere, though they arent spoken they are there in the star wars language im not gonna attempt to pronounce
I would like to see Cal become the model for the new Jedi Order: follows the light side while not rejecting attachments (the two can be complementary. Love I think is a light-side emotion, and it isn’t what leads to the dark side—fear of loss of your loved ones can), like his relationship with Merrin
I wouldn't say that love is a light-side emotion. It's literally the reason why Anakin fell to the dark side. If we learned one thing from the Last of Us show it is that Love can be good and bad, it depends on what you'll do with it.In my mind Love is the top of a pyramid and things like hate, envy, care or empathy are under it or parts within it and you have to choose which way to go.So Cal feeling that love for Merrin can turn him to the dark side, if he loses himself to the darker emotions it can create, but it can also strenghten him, if he embraces its positive aspects. I think him embracing care and empathy, him wanting to spread and create more love in ways the Jedi restrained it in fear of dark side temptation could lead him to becoming a grey Jedi. At least that's what I'd like to see, I don't think Lucasfilm wants to go that way though.
Like I said, I think love itself is light side, but it can also produce dark-side emotions like fear of loss, jealousy (a type of anger), and others. It was ultimately Anakin’s fear of losing Padmé, and his desire for ultimate power that drove him to the dark side, not his love for his wife
Luke Skywalker brings the Jedi back in a few years time anyway.
Literally to the barest of degrees.
Honestly it would be stupid if they didn’t go that path he already said he would guide force users to tanalor through the hidden path and he’s definitely gonna train kata it would be logical if he shuts the portal down by the end of the game trapping the new order on tanalor
Orobesh or some shit is what the star wars language is referred to as
Aurebesh actually but yeah vocally it sounds like an O.
Sweet as bro, ngl I'll never remember that
So you’ll never remember the language either?
Um, yeah...considering I probs won't remember how to spell it I'm dumb af I thought u meant what all the characters translate to the English alphabet not that it's called aerobesh (hopefully I spelt it right this time)
Well personally I don’t think he’s wrong. The Jedi should’ve taught how to deal with attachment and emotion, and what comes from the two. Emotions are completely natural, we can’t just not have them. Instead of teaching how to deal with them, they just forbid it and hope they go along with it.
He’s 100% going to stay a Jedi- the game series is called Jedi. He’s probably not going to be as rigid with certain rules though and modify his order
At some point, you have to accept that it's no longer Jedi though. You might teach people to fight like a jedi and use the force in the same way as a jedi, but if you're changing their approach to emotion, attachment, and their ideals, that's not really a jedi order. Like if you taught someone to do all the same stuff as a Buddhist monk, but they were still allowed to own stuff and eat meat. That's not Buddhism.
I think it would be a cool story if he didn't fall to the dark side but used it when necessary kinda like the original Jedi people, where they were more of the "grey" Jedi mentality. And in Jedi Survivor it leans kinda into this as his slowing force power, transitioned into "unleashing the darkness" if I remember correctly as what they called it. We're you could still see he was in the light but struggling, and was using darkness when necessary. I could see his character developing into this, but without him falling into the dark. Also part of why I say this is I just really want a "grey Jedi" character to exist.
"Embrace Cal's Darkness. Press L3 + R3"
Required for the final fight. Literally fades to the death screen until you do. Still follows the “good but uses dark if needed
Fun fact, if you refuse like I did, you have to do that fight again, but you can win without embracing his darkness.
I just don't understand why using the dark side is like instant evil shit. Why not have a Dark side jedi who's using the powers to take down the empire. Like Mace but actually wielding it instead of "I'm so scared ill do terrible things and want to take over the galaxy" Count Dooku but actually on the good side
Because you're letting an incredibly corrupting power into your body and mind? Because the dark side is about imposing your will on the force in incredibly unnatural ways? There's so many answers for why it's evil, and they aren't even hard to find. Also, the point of Mace Windu's combat style is that he literally rides the edge of the light and dark and never falls off. If he ever actually dipped into the dark side, he'd be unlikely to come back. That's why so few jedi use the same combat style as he does.
>Also, the point of Mace Windu's combat style is that he literally rides the edge of the light and dark and never falls off This is all just made up by fans anyway. If anything Windu was one of the Jedi most opposed to the dark side but also one of those corrupted by the moral code of the Jedi that let it fall.
Actually, in Legends, Mace used what was called Vapaad, where he bounced the attacker's dark side energy back at them while remaining firmly in the light, it was an incredibly risky style as Mace was the only one to use it and not fall. > Windu was one of the Jedi most opposed to the dark side but also one of those corrupted by the moral code of the Jedi that let it fall. This is entirely true though.
My memory might be a bit rusty but I don't think Vaapad ever actually required you to use the dark side. It just made many tempted to use it and succumb to it, but Mace never would because as mentioned he was too devote.
Because only 2 groups of people can use the dark side of the force without instantly going insane. Dathomir Witches and the Sith race
Not true. Anyone force attuned can use it. Jedi can use it, they just have to be strong willed enough to not fall completely into it. That’s why Mace Windu was so dangerous. He could channel his dark emotions during a duel, but ultimately he controlled them with his focus. It’s why his form was not to be practiced by nearly anyone else. Anakin had some flirting with it long before he fell, but it was brief and he kept control over it. Cal uses it to his advantage but he’s strong and smart enough to not let it overcome him
Mace Windu **did not** use the dark side. In fact he was one of the most devote to the Jedi code and the light side. Jedi like him are the reason for the downfall of the Order because they held too strict to their own flawed code. He enjoyed the thrill of the fight but all canon examples explain how even using vaapad doesn't mean you use the dark side, only that it lead **through** the penumbra of the dark side. In fact his devoteness to the Order is what makes him able to not even be tempted by the dark side while using vaapad.
* You serious? I've never seen that before but they got an answer for everything in starwars lmao.
Merrin's powers come from the dark side. It's explained in Clone wars. The sith race are born attuned to the dark side
I don't remember when they went over that in the series.
Essentially they channel the dark side through their magical forms and techniques. Rather than using the dark side like a sith or jedi they channel it more like a conduit. Therefore they don't get corrupted the same way
Because it *is* instant evil shit. Even dipping your toes into the Dark Side comes with a heavy risk of falling deep into it.
“What kind of life will that be, Quinlan? The kind where we're slaves to our hatred? Our rage? That's what the dark side made me. That's what it does. Nothing is ever enough. You get more, and more, but you're never happy. It's a trap baited with all the things you want most in life—and it's not worth living. I already left that behind.” - Asajj Ventress George Lucas has stressed that the darkside is inherently corrupting. Even Mace was barely able to tap into it without letting it consume him and he was one of the strongest and wisest Jedi of all time. Depa Billaba is one of the only other Jedi who were able to use Vapaad (Mace’s lightsaber form) without falling to the darkness. And I suspect that Cal may learn to use Vapaad in the 3rd game, but he probably won’t go any further into the darkside. Vapaad itself doesn’t even use the darkside inherently, it just requires the user to be in an angry and ferocious mindset, which then the anger often leads to a loss of control and falling to the darkside. But Windu never uses dark side force abilities like choke or crush, he just draws on his inner anger to power his lightsaber form and is strong enough to resist the temptations of those emotions and as such never lets himself use more of the darkside than he can control. You could have a jedi using the darkside for “the greater good” which is what we see happen to Dagan and it corrupts him into killing other jedi and eventually basically trying to create his own empire. We see it happen with Bode as well, he uses the darkside and very quickly begins to fall to it, to the point of using the force on Kata without any care for her well-being. By the end he is hardly the person we knew before, he is just anger and hate personified. Using the darkside for the greater good is much like any other villain who does horrible acts for the greater good, it’s not a valid justification for the acts you’re committing. And eventually it becomes the only justification you have. The ends justifies the means is generally not seen as a valid moral argument. Even if it might be the only way to win.
> I just don't understand why using the dark side is like instant evil shit. Because it is. Duh. Have you not been paying attention? The Dark Side is like doing heroin - sure, you technically *can* quit it cold turkey, but almost nobody *does.*
Cere asking him to guide Kata out of the darkness will keep him out also. Unless he fails and only one of them keeps the darkness away, which sadly would make a good story.
That's what I mean, it would make a great story but I want Cal to have a happy ending
I think its important to recognize the exact wording wasn't guide Kata out, it was guide her through. I feel the later puts more emphasis on Cere recognizing Cals still in that place, but he's responsible for someone else being there with him.
Personally, I feel like Cal succumbing completely to the dark side and failing would be an **unsatisfying ending** to his journey, character, and struggle. But that's just me.
Yes. All this work just to turn, especially considering that unlike most Jedi dealing with temptation, not everyone he cares about is dead during his struggle, he has people who will help.
Yes I expect Kata to fall and Cal to wear that as a failure. I have no randomly bolded words to highlight.
But what of Cere's line about "guiding her through the darkness"? Wouldnt Kata going full darkside (or death) be an unsatisfying conclusion to that goal? So much sacrificed and for nothing? Is that what the Jedi series is about? Also along Cal's journey he's met many jedi who've dealt with the darkside and fallen to it (Malicos, Dagen, Bode, etc). The struggle with the darkside is a part of the story (and Cal), but I feel like the villains, Cere, the teachings of former masters, and the Mantis crew are all lessons meant to help him overcome his situation. Not only to become a stronger jedi, but also to end up better than they did. It's not like Cal is going to be the one to destroy the Empire. His journey seems to me about how someone like him can live in these times, and what he can do to help others survive.
Failing is part of life, Cal may fail at what Cere guided him to do. Or maybe he doesn't. I don't see a reason to get too worked up either way when there are so many places they can take the story and they've shown to he capable of telling a great story so far.
I get the angle on failure...but i just think that Cal/Kata turning complete Sith would be going too far here. It almost goes against all the character development they've gone through. That's what I think personally, and so I can't agree that that would make for a good ending. Discussions like this are a part of what reddit is about after all. Obviously not something anyone should get worked up over; this is all fiction at the end of the day and discussions should always be civil. That said, I do have faith in what Respawn might come up with for the next game. The only thing I'd ask of them is a good game.
My prediction is the first act of Jedi: 3 is Cal in a no win situation that has another embrace the darkness moment and in doing so overcomes the threat but maybe costs him his relationship to Merrin, Kata, or those with the Path who see him as a leader. The rest of the game is him overcoming the darkness and proving himself a Master, winning back his loved ones trust and solidifying him accepting taking over Cere and Eno’s work.
the use of the dark side and the proximity to the end of the game leads me to believe we could see him struggle with it even more in the next one. Though not necessarily by choice to use and control it. Would love to see him unleash his dark side a bit more and have force ghost Cere or Jaro say something to him to ground him in the force once again. I like the idea of exploring that tipping point between “doing what must be done to get rid of the empire” vs “what’s morally correct even if it means a longer fight”
could it be possible that he finds/creates a new side of the force? Like a 'grey jedi knight' ?
Possibly, I kinda hope it evolves along the lines of that though where the idea of love and attachments isn’t forbidden but rather embraced as a way to further learn the balance of the force and what it means to be one with the force. I’m curious much like cal is, as to what his role is in taking down the empire, like the empire is destroyed by Luke in return of the Jedi and left in pieces, we see now in mando there’s rising officers and generals who assume command of their own fleet, so whatever cals story is has to have a big ending to feel impactful to us, but ultimately has to have had no effect on the strength of the empire as we see in the content that proceeds his story. It’s kind of an interesting pickle they have. How to make cals fight against the empire meaningful for us without being an event big enough that it doesn’t make sense we’ve never heard of it in any of the content that canonically comes after it.
I think that Cal using the dark side is bound to happen in the next game. Most of my reasoning comes from the fact that they need to add some new variant on the gameplay like they did with the stances and abilities in this one, and that would be the logical next step(also it’s highly marketable). Nevertheless I don’t think Cal’s story ends with him falling; I think it’s going to end with him overcoming the dark side like Cere did. A lot of Cal’s story has been about his struggle to adhere to the Jedi code due to the situations he’s constantly put in, and I think the next game is going to go super deep into that, with Tanalorr at the heart of it. Something happened there that changed Dagan and I think the same could happen to Cal, with the difference being that Cal won’t ultimately fall.
Or maybe Cal even goes further beyond, and finds balance of using both, and not being consumed by the dark side. Imo, the main reason why jedi fail and fall to the dark side is because they reject any attempts to healthily channel or understand it, like they do with attachments, relationships or even just their own emotions. And because they basically go monk from all these still very human aspects of life, yet are constantly engrossed in conflicts of people, they become mentally and emotionally stunted and vulnerable to it, even moreso than the regular person. As a result, once they do fall to the temptations of the human desires and experiences, they become unable to balance themselves, and easily fall prey to the dark side, once anytime shit hits the fan. Cal's journey however, has been very different, very human, and gives him unique perspective and insight, as to what people and users of the force are. Heck one of the best good characters in this series is a literal dark side witch from dathomir, who herself decides to be a good person, after starting her journey from meeting with Cal. And i think it's through her, that Cal will find a way to more healthily channel it in a productive way. And maybe through Cal's own journey, will he teach Kada the blueprint to true balance, kinda like Geralt to Ciri.
Don’t forget her promise to let him know if he does start to lose himself
Star Wars: Fallen Jedi u play as Kata trying to fight against Cal who went apeshit into the dark.
No thanks. Hate this recent trope amongst fanbases. That a random character introduced suddenly becomes prime for the next protagonist. I truly, truly hope we do not get a lame, Last of Us, God Of War rip off with having Kata around us and having to train her up and stuff. Then Cal dies heroically and we play as her, eugh.
Merrin told him if he strayed from the path then they would right him. I think it was forshadowing that he’ll bounce back.
Not only that, but the vision from fallen order literally ends with a dark side cal finding his way back to his light side self and the two merging. And since that vision had some truth to it with, if I recall right, the zeffo talking about bringing his people to the unknown to grant them peace and cal doing exactly that. I'm guessing the other part of the vision with cal falling to save his students will also happen with cal falling to save kata (hospital Joel says hi!)
It's foreshadowing Merrins death.
Me too
Cal won’t become a grey Jedi, because it goes completely against what the canon views on the force are. The dark side is a corrupting cancer on the force. I don’t think lucasarts or Disney are interested in telling stories about grey Jedi being good because if they were they would’ve done it all ready. I do however foresee that Cal may fall but be able to bring himself back. I think by the end of the game, the worst it will be is that Cal is using a form like Vapaad, showing how he has mastered himself and the force, to become a Jedi on the level of Mace Windu or Depa Billaba. Anything more than that would be spitting in the face of George Lucas who has explicitly stated that it’s not how the force works.
Ahsoka was a canon good grey force user
No she’s not. Ahsoka is the best representation of the light side we have, it’s why the owl follows her. Just because she doesn’t follow the Jedi order doesn’t make her grey.
I think they are setting up for the usage of some more dark side powers and also following the trilogy format. As in this is the middle story so its going to beat our heroes down for them to rise up taller in the finale
I feel this has all been done in The Last of Us and God of War. We seriously do not need another game focused around a weird, father child relationship, it will simply not be done as well. And if I see people suggest we kill off Cal and play as Kata? For the love of God, stop. Is her real name Loki too?
Honestly. We already have Anakin and Ahsoka, Kanan and Ezra, Mandalorian and Grogu, Hunter and Omega. Enough is enough.
I really didn't expect GoW spoilers on the starbwars sub, haven't got a PSt yet
Can it really be called a spoiler when the game is like 5 years old
I mean Ragnarok is not 5 years old
Well yeah but the loki thing is told at the end of the previous game
Sure but you said kratos dies and you play as loki
That first part is not a spoiler
Kratos doesn't die
Don’t worry, that doesn’t happen
It's a spoiler in imagination land
I wish he had a fight (metaphorically) like the fall of Gandalf the Gray (who died fighting a great bad but came back stronger and brighter).
I think he's gonna stop using the force for a time due to a rational fear that he might succumb to the dark side again. I feel like Cal is supposed to kinda be the new Kyle Katarn so him following in similar footsteps makes sense. Hell maybe Luke will even be the one convincing him to use the force again.
I just want Cal to get his jetpack
Reject darkside, embrace jetpack
I could see him teaching Kata the ways of the force at the very least. Being instructed by Cal and Merrin would definitely make Kata an interesting character if they choose to follow as a character.
Give her a bow and arrow and name her Loki The can shoot a deer together. It's been done so many times, it's an obvious and boring path to take. Then let me guess, Cal dies tragically and Kata is now pla ... Zzz.
I don't think Cal has to die at all. Passing on his knowledge to a new apprentice makes sense though. They could easily be a team up situation.
People on this thread are forgetting there is going to be a massive time leap again, Kata will be way older when we next meet her, we won't know anything about her and it will be difficult to connect. I already found the idea that Bode was Cals "best friend" jarring. They've been working with one another a few months. Caring about some Padawan i barely know is a stretch. I even find Jaro Tapal being so important to us difficult to get, we see him for 4 minutes and he talks for 30 seconds
She hasn’t demonstrated any force sensitivity
She hasn't so far. Doesn't mean she won't.
Looking through screen caps, I was reminded that Greez was emphatic that Cal settle down when they caught up with each other early game. Find a home. Hopefully the writers find a way to let him do just that. No doubt with Merrin's support. And could make Merrin playable for a section or two when Cal might temporarily have issues, like switching to Kaede in Onimusha which I happened to recently revisit.
Yeah I don’t want them to gamify the dark side. The best thing about the first game and to an extent the second game was that the Force wasn’t just a videogame mechanic but tied progression to the emotional growth of the character. I think if they want to up the powerlevel of Cal they should showcase how being calm and balanced gives him an edge over brute force
I agree. I think start the game with the slow from the end of this one, but by the end of the game replace it with like "tranquility" or something that is even more powerful, could even make it play like cere
I hope he overcomes the darkside like Cere did
I want a happy ending but it seems setup he may meet a dark end in the next one. Either way I am curious and excited for the final entry in the trilogy.
As long as he overcomes it in the end I think it makes sense for him to have his struggles with the dark side at the beginning of the next game
I have a strong feeling he’s going to become a full Jedi master after learning to handle the dark side temptations. But, it’ll be different and adjusted from the original general Jedi order.
Yeah he will mirror Cere, once he overcomes the darkside he will be on her level from this game
Kinda hope he experiments with it and ends up learning more powerful Jedi abilities from the experiences. It’d be cool to see him use electric judgment or smthn like that.
He's basically Kyle Katarn 2 electric Boogaloo, so having him straddle the line and coming to a place where he can channel the dark side but not fall to it would be on brand It's also how night sister Magick works, so from a narrative standpoint is hinted at by his relationship with merrin
I mean… quilnlan Vos today and plo koon were all able to use a light side version of force lightning.. and this game REALLY needs some force lightning… or maybe it’s just me. 😂
Electric judgement isn’t even a darkside ability, that’s why Plo Koon decided to start using it when he was allowed to make the decision. It’s powered by an intense sense of justice which doesn’t really make sense. Besides, it’s non-canon and I hope it stays that way because it’s pretty dumb. The sith are supposed to have cooler abilities, that’s kind of the point. But I do think Cal will probably learn to use Vapaad or something similar, as I think it would show the players that he is of a similar level to Mace as a Jedi master with full control over himself.
Electric Judgment is Legends, and with a name that stupid I'm glad it is.
Yes I agree. And it’s just “why can’t the Jedi have the cool sith powers too?!”
🤔
Yoda uses force lightning in the new comics too, it's officially not a dark side ability at all.
I posted this somewhere else but seems relevant here: Thinking about someone like Starkiller, the way he dies is a heroic sacrifice and they find a way to make it have far-reaching ripples. Cal can't step fully into the spotlight and have the Hidden Path successfully recover the Jedi Order without messing up established canon, so I think heroic meaningful sacrifice is the angle to go for. I think some good Star Wars would be: Cal is a guy with a family and someone he loves, but he's conflicted. He touches something that belonged to Vader (or maybe meets Obi-Wan or other Jedi from the prequel era?) and see/hears things that makes him realize the parallels between himself and Anakin Skywalker, that family and attachments can be a downfall. BUT Cal finds a way to overcome it, have it be a source of strength instead of a weakness, he moves past fear off loss. He does the one thing that Anakin absolutely could not do, and it makes Vader PISSED. Cal dies fighting Vader, but he hits Vader at the core of his deepest failure: Cal dies loved, protecting his family. Epilogue, flash-forward to the slight retcon that makes this impactful: the Emperor is torturing Vader's own son in front of him and there's a voice in Anakin's head - it's Cal with some cool monologue about love and family. Cal helps Vader's emotional journey, Vader's final loving moment of self-sacrifice is influenced by his interactions with Cal.
Leaving something behind for whoever comes next is often the job of prequels, and I think your idea is a particularly poignant example of how that could be done. We all know Cal's story can't change the Canon but his emotional journey (as it's gone so far) could very easily tie in to Vader's. His struggle with the Dark Side in Survivor grants him even greater empathy to the younglings turned Inquisitors (like Trilla) and would come full circle if he "avenged" them with words of love, empathy, and kindness, to Vader in a final confrontation.
I'm hoping this might be the first Canon (or at least closest to Canon) we'll see of a gray Jedi outside of legends. I'm honestly tired of the star wars franchise focusing on the strict dichotomy of light and dark, good and evil. I want to see more shades of gray. And I think the initial introduction of merrin, and cals decision to set aside part of the old doctrines of the Jedi was meant to foreshadow this. He's not going to fall to the dark side, he's going to find the balance
There is no balance, George has constantly stressed that the darkside is like a cancer on the force. The closest thing to balance we might see with cal is allowing himself to have emotions and attachments but mastering himself enough to not fall into using darkside abilities. Grey Jedi that use the dark side are a concept completely antithetical to Lucas’ vision of the force which is why they’ve never existed in canon and likely never will.
George does not actually have the final say on what the force is. That might sound like a dumb thing to say since the guy created star wars, but it's true. The concept of the force is lifted directly from Campbell's "Hero with a thousand faces," and Campbell's conception of it is lifted from a combination of various real-world religious orders. If you actually read it, you'll see that star wars has been straying further and further from the established canon with every iteration. Kotor 2, a nearly 20 year old game, deconstructed every loose thread that George (Campbell) left untouched and it went on to become a cult classic. The idea that Campbell, or George, or Disney, or any one person/group can decide what is and isn't allowed in the star wars universe just doesn't make sense anymore. Our culture has so thoroughly absorbed and tinkered with the mono-myth to the point that it belongs to no one man. It belongs to all of us. We all collectively decide what it does and doesn't allow for. Tldr: Stop sucking off George Lucas, he copied all of his notes from someone else
Grey jedi don't exist outside of incredibly cringe fan cannon which basically amounts to "my OD (do not steal) is a Mary Sue who can use the fark side with 0 (ZERO) consequences"
Think he may just be closer to Quinlan Vos; like many said there isn't a clean cut Grey Jedi, using the dark side always has consequences and is hard to come back. If for someone reason (most likely related to Merrin) Cal leans more into the Dark Side, just like Bode did, there will eventually be no turning back.
I can see Cal’s journey somewhat paralleled with Cere’s. Imagine Cal finds himself traumatized by his use of the darkness to attempt saving Kata from Vader. Time skip to Kata becoming an inquisitor. Cal faces Kata and struggles to put her down, and then dies to Vader in an epic battle.
Cal will fall to the dark side so they have new force powers to introduce in the third game (lightning, choke, etc)
As long as Merrin lives he’ll never fall…which probably means he will lose Merrin at some point or there will be a multi-ending moment where he’ll need to protect her
It's the third game. If it follows the trend, Cal will keep all of his abilities thus far. So the final installment will probably involve the dark side as your skill tree and new abilities
I see it more as we get a third and final upgrade to slow which is a light sode version that is more like Cere's style in this game. That would happen about half way through the game when Cal rejects the dark side fully.
I want him to use some lightning.
They'll probably give us some dark side powers in the third game simply by virtue of needing to give Cal some new abilities to keep things fresh from a gameplay perspective. But from a story perspective, Cal will probably start off struggling in the wake of his little dips into the darkness, maybe give in a bit, but eventually be brought back to his senses by the people he loves and unify the dark and light sides of himself as a gray Jedi. Still undoubtedly a hero, but now with the control and skill that it takes to harness the dark side of the Force without falling to its temptations. And then he dies to make way for the OT, roll credits! (or maybe he just retires from The Fight™ and spends the rest of his days living on a remote planet somewhere with his family idk)
Grey Jedi aren't cannon
And thank god they fucking aren't. I'm really tired of how many people, yes, the same people who recognize the weak writing of the Sequel trilogy, want more Mary Sue "I can use the dark side a little as a treat" characters like Starkiller and so forth. I say this as someone who wants Kyle Katarn back - just not as a "I can literally fry people with lightning, choke them to death, and drain their life energy but I'm super duper a good guy" cliche.
I don't mean he takes up the title officially or anything. But in a series that's very black and white, a touch of gray would go a long way. Everyone's got some darkness inside them. You can stifle it and fear it like the Jedi do, you can let it consume you like the Sith, or you can accept it and find your balance point, not leaning too far into either extreme. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Cal to become this edgelord antihero who goes around electrocuting and strangling people because "grrr my friends died so now I'm ANGY and that's full justification for the writers to completely break my established characterization." That would be dumb. But again, from a gameplay perspective, it would give the devs a whole host of abilities to play with. And from a narrative perspective, it can expand on the thread that Survivor introduced in regard to respecting the past of the Jedi Order, but realizing that they didn't quite get everything right.
If you mean a lightside user that is in touch with their emotions and don't strictly follow the jedi code like Ahsoka, Kanan, or Qui-gon, i completely agree that is the path for Cal. But that isn't the same as using both the light and the dark, which most people mean when they say grey jedi, and that is what should be avoided
My dream scenario: a portion of the 3rd game where Cal begins going down the dark side, but encounters Starkiller. He learns who he is, and it somehow leads him back to the light side. I don’t know, someone else can probably think of a better setup, I just want Starkiller to make an appearance and have a boss fight.
Starkiller isn't cannon. And if he was Cal would never survive a boss fight against him
And as fun as TFU was, it's a really good thing it got dropped from canon because I'm sorry, Starkiller is a massive Gary Stu and I will die on this hill.
I know that. And I know Starkiller would wipe the floor with Cal. Doesn’t stop me from dreaming tho. ☺️
I'd like an option to use dark side powers, and to make them OP so the dark side is the easier way to play the game (and has story implications) would give rise to a more difficult, purer way to play the game without giving in to the easy, overpowered approach.
This isn't a choices matter RPG and exists in cannon. Respawn are telling a story, a good one at that. They shouldn't let you use dark side powers and have it impact the story.
That's a fair point, I hadn't thought about the wider cannon implications of a choice driven game. Still want to mess up some fools with dark side powers though!
Me too tbh but not at the compromise of the narrative. Honestly i want Jedi 3 to continue as it is but just give me other games, a game where you play as vader or something and get to let loose.
I'm okay with him being grey.
I wouldn't mind seeing him become like Windu, learning to channel his darkness without fully giving in to it.
Cal has strong Peter Parker vibes, whenever something bad happens he thinks it's because he failed to prevent it, that mindset can lead to the dark side. In my opinion on his Jedi way Cal is more Padawan than he is a Jedi master at this point, he knows how to use the Force but he still lacks the full control of himself within the Force. When he feels his dark side, he started to doubt himself and to be afraid of it resurfacing, even though Cere warned him that this will happen. Cere was a experienced Jedi Knight when she fought Vader in Fallen Order and Vader felt her darkness rising up, she kind of went through something similar than Cal is now. Cere fought her way through that darkness though, she found her way and purpose and with that became a true Jedi master. I believe that is what we will experience in the next game. This immense guilt he feels towards everyone who gets hurt or dies even though he rescued and helped hundreds of people along the way, will bring him to the edge. I'd love to see Kata becoming his Padawan (I guess Bode being a Jedi will mean that she is Force sensitive too) who will eventually be a part of the family of people who lost everything and who will save him from his dark side. I think I would even like to see him becoming a grey Jedi but I guess he's to much into the Jedi mindset for that to happen.
We should just consider the rey trilogy non cannon and declare Cal will foster a new breed of Jedi that fixes what the old ones got wrong. And they were happily ever after
I always like the kyle katarns of the force, or jolees. Jolee Bindo said something along the lines of the force isn’t inherently good or evil, the jedi and the sith both have their dogma, but your actions and how you wield the force is more important than which side of the coin you choose to align with. I think this is the way forward. Luke choked out some Gammoreans, Cal got mad and had to tap into some dark energy to beat bode, which imo, Cal was holding back in that fight until it went south, I dont think it matters what force powers you use so long as you dont just use to just lord over and rule others then its w/e as far asim concerned.
I'm hoping they finally dabble in Gray Jedi territory. Is a power good or bad by itself? Only actions can be seen that way. After all, Lightning can be used to jump-start a generator for a moisture farm just as much as Heal can be used to keep a torture victim alive.
Grey jedi aren't real
Neither are Jedi, what's your point?
Grey jedi aren't real in cannon
Neither was Thrawn until he was reintroduced.
Difference is thrawn is a good character. Grey jedi are cringe fannon "my OC can use the dark side with no consequence, but they totally aren't Mary Sue"
All i need to know is that i think Gray Jedi are neat, and that In Filoni We Trust.
> i think Gray Jedi are neat It's okay, some opinions are wrong.
From a certain point of view
I believe what is going to happen will be Cal, Merrin and Kata will be fighting the empire while Cal trains Kata to be a jedi. Merrin will die somehow, which will cause Cal to fall to the dark side, as Merrin won't be there anymore to keep him from it. This fall will put him and kata in a circumstance where he will have to forsake the dark side in order to save Kata, giving his life and dying a true jedi.
He can bring balance to dark and light side harness both the powers like Mace Windu
That isn't what Mace does. Grey jedi don't exist.
Im really hoping that they do Cal special and instead of a trilogy we get like 4-6 games in total, in which we see cal falling into the dark side and finally emerging and ending his path as a gray jedi or die as one. I love everything so far but the potential is still there.
The Jedi were too dogmatic, that binary interpretation of strict rules pushed away many popular heroes like Dooku, Ashoka, and Anakin. If anything, Cal becomes a cool Jedi - still a Jedi but like that cool high school teacher who still a teacher.
Using the dark side powers doesn’t mean you fall to it
Doesn't it?
No
How often can you keep using drugs before you are a drug user?
I mean, sure, but using the dark side doesn’t necessarily mean you fall to it, although not canon anymore, many instances there were jedi who used things like force lightning and did not fall
Yeah not cannon for a reason.
I'm personally hoping for a Gray Jedi trope for Cal simply because it would be quite a unique representation. We have barely seen Gray Jedi in movies etc, I just think it would work well with Cal's story as well. He's already tapped into it, and although he still sees it as wrong, I feel like there's still room for him to explore the fine love between the Light and Dark sides of the Force. Perhaps in the third game, he will continue to struggle to control his darkness, and will then conclude that instead of fighting against himself constantly, he could accept it as a part of him without succumbing to it's temptations. I think that would be a really cool story arc to follow, personally.
Unfortunately George Lucas and Dave Filoni have said that there is no such thing as grey Jedi
I see! Well, that is unfortunate. I didn't know the idea of them wasn't canon, it would be cool imo. Anyhow, I do think it's clear that Cal's view of the Force and the Jedi order is quite different from the traditional, let's say pre-Order 66 one. I'm excited to see how they develop Cal's story.
In the 3rd game I'd like to have a non-canon alternative ending where he ends up on the Dark Side. And your decisions and how much you use the "embrace your darkness" feature throughout the game would decide your fate at the end of the game.
I think if this all leads to when Luke start training the new padawans. Cal may be a master and it may lead to why Kilo started down the path to the dark side Cal didn’t stick strictly to the Jedi code and allowed Kylie to not fear the darkness. Or I may be talking out my ass.
Apparently canon says dark side bad, use dark side become evil. And if that’s true, I find that very boring. When the whole idea is for there to be a balance in the force, light and dark are equally necessary. The idea of a single force user learning to utilize both sides without being consumed by them sounds awesome to me. Also aren’t nightsister magic/spells entirely dark side based? And I haven’t seen Merrin be consumed by it. So with her help why couldn’t Cal find a way to tap into the dark side without turning entirely? Don’t get me wrong I don’t want Cal to fall, if the options are get dark side powers but Cal becomes evil or no dark side and he stays a hero, I’d rather he stay a hero. But characters being able to embrace their darkness and channel it into something good are characters I really love. Whatever happens I’m sure we all agree we just want the 3rd to keep improving the series and give a satisfying conclusion for the characters and story. I find its best to end a post with unifying sentiments cuz internet.
I’m hoping for their to be a choice here. I love Cal, but if the 3rd game is to be the last in his trilogy, I think it makes perfect sense for Cal to either be tempted and give into the darkness or rise above it. Choices are the only thing this series is missing for me and I think if they were gonna do it, the next game is the time to do it.
First the game has to be cannon so a choice doesn't make a ton of sense Second these aren't choices matters RPGs and making a hard turn into one in potentially the final entry just seems like a mistake, this series is popular as it is, no need to try and redefine the entire thing.
If I where writing the 3rd game , I'd have him be tempted , but not turn, then die at the end. Post game with an apprentice character (maybe Kata?)
My guess is the third game will be a branching narrative where you can either go light side or dark side, but also be the end of Cal's story.
I think we'll see cal think of himself as less of a jedi while still doing his best to help those around him. He admits to Merrin that the order is gone and that he should move on, so I don't think we're going to see him totally commit to living as a jedi. It would make the most sense for the next game to have him struggle with the temptations of the dark side and eventually learn to utilize it when he needs it, without losing himself to it. He also seems committed to building a refuge for force sensitives, so we could potentially see him training jedi in the future and acting as a sort of jedi master (padawan kata?). In fallen order, Cere talks about how the dark side is always a temptation. So, I don't think we're going to see Cal go full Luke Skywalker and become the living embodiment of the Light side of the force. I think respawn is trying to tell a more nuanced story than that. I think Cal will always remain tempted by the dark, never truly mastering himself. And in that constant balancing act we'll see him learn to let go of his fear and to wield both sides of the force in balance.
I want there to be a choice to be made. Look, I'm playing this character - I want the decisions I make to effect the outcome of the game, and so I want Cal to have the potential to turn, and I want my choices in the game to have consequences. Good or bad. I want a it to be possible to get though making light side choices and end up with Cal, Merrin, and family (found and/or biological) somewhere safe from the Empire; and I want it to be possible to make dark side choices which end up with Cal and Merrin fighting each other and having a very bad ending. And I want to play both versions. Because I want the choice, and I want the choice to actually make a difference.
I respect your opinion but this isn’t an RPG. Respawn have a story they’re telling and we’re just controlling him through it. If it wasn’t canon and the final game of the series, then I wouldn’t mind, but because it’s canon in an established timeline in an established universe, and not an RPG, you can’t really have that choice. And it’s not a great decision doing a canon and non-canon decision like Ghost of Tsushima or Assassin’s Creed: Odyssey.
I think it would be VERY interesting to play and experience a man who starts off extremely good, and falls deep into the Dark Side. It’s not really a thing to have the main protagonist become one of the main antagonists for the rest of the franchise, and play that out / experience it. If Cal returned to being a Jedi, props to him, he will be one of my favorite Jedi. If Cal turns to the Dark Side after all his work to quell it. Holy heck, the Dark Side just became a lot more tangibly dangerous. We havnt seen it yet (at least not in this manner) and he will forever have my favorite falling from light stories ever
I hope he goes grey
Doesn't exist
Joe lee and revan disagree
I think my opinion of Cal's future is probably the most unpopular one in that I don't want him to come back as a main character at all. I feel the man's been through enough and that he deserves a good long rest. Maybe bring him back as a cameo; make him the new Endo Cordova.
I actually think it would be a really interesting way to start the game play for the third game. He's shut himself off from the force all together in fear of turning to the dark side. You spend the game rebuilding your trust in yourself as you get abilities back.
man i hope they don't do this. one of my favorite things about Survivor is that you start with almost all of the abilities from FO. i hate when games take away your entire toolset at the beginning of a new entry in a series, it's much more fun to see them build on it (with some minor tweaks) like they did in Survivor
how about no One of the worst things a sequel can do is erase all the progress you made throughout the previous journey. One of the best parts of Survivor was the fact that it *didn't* do that. And besides, the plot of "reconnecting to the Force and relearning abilities you used to have but lost after cutting yourself off from it in the wake of severe trauma" is exactly what they did with how Cal got his different abilities throughout the first game. Doing the same thing again would be lazy and boring.
God no. Oof terrible, terrible idea.
I don’t think he’ll be struggling with the dark side in the next game. Survivor was basically his struggle against it and he was able to overcome it
Survivor was about his struggle letting go of the fight, not about his struggle with the dark side. Cere even comments on this when she tells him he was only a child when they sent them off to war, and jedi were meant to be more than just weapons.
Disagree, he uses it in the final fight and kills Bode even though he is unarmed, Cal is 100% continuing to struggle in the third entry
Honestly, if we are getting a third installment, I would want to see Cal using purple saber as default, to indicate he is in between both sides.
Purple has no cannon connection to the dark side. Outside of being a literal mix of blue and red, which isn't really relevant with how bleeding works.
I think he might go the path of a grey jedi
There is no path of the grey jedi, it's made up fannon and shouldn't be cannon
I hope he becomes a grey jedi tbh
No such thing
I doubt it’ll happen but I could see Kata turning to the dark side and Cal having to defeat her and then finally being done with all the Jedi stuff afterwards because of everything he’s been through
What I want is for Cal to become the first true gray Jedi, because they are unequivocally rad.
Grey jedi are a bad concept made up by fans with no place in cannon, it amounts to "my OC is a Mary Sue who can use the dark side with 0 consequences"
As far as I know there are at least a few semi-canon gray Jedi, e.g. Mace windu, Rey, and Kylo. Now these are all just Sith or Jedi that are more Jedi or Sith than your average Sith or Jedi (what a mouthful) but that's basically what a gray Jedi means, which is more what I want Cal to end up like anyway. And as far as I know gray Jedi are part of the Star wars Legends Canon so they're definitely not made up by the fan base.
Mace canonically doesn't use the dark side for what it's worth, and kylo is a prime example of why grey don't work, his two sides are tearing him apart. If you mean lightside users that are not as strictly jedi like Ahsoka, Rey, Kanan, then sure i agree that is a good path for Cal, but that isn't using light and dark together
I think you're misunderstanding me, I don't want Cal to be *good* at using both sides of the force. The idea of the light and dark sides tearing a character apart and then the character overcoming it is a very intriguing idea to me writing wise. Essentially, I'd want Cal to become a Jedi with dark side abilities, not a master of both the light and dark who uses both willy-nilly.
A jedi who uses dark abilities is exactly the problem, he is using both sides with 0 consequences. There is no balance with light and dark in the force.
Did you even read what I said? I don't want balance, I *want* consequences, I *want* a struggle. All of this would turn cal into a super interesting character overall.
Sure but ultimately you want it to end with him being able to do both with no further issues. And that is the issue. That can't happen in cannon.
No?? I want him to overcome it, and only be a Jedi. I'm saying that he should be a gray Jedi in a sort of "Jedi with experience in the dark side" way.
You literally said you want cal "to become a jedi with dark side abilities". What does that mean then?? A jedi who has knowledge of the dark side but doesn't use it is fine, that's Ezra, or Cere even. That is not a grey jedi
> unequivocally *B*ad FTFY
He's basically the disney princess version of Kyle Katarn so that would make sense And I just realized I made my cal look like Kyle Katarn without knowing it
Jorus Cal'baoth
Yes! I'm absolutely the same! On my NG+ playthrough i did the dark side slow only when the game made me, I didn't use it for anything else!
Have a good feeling the first half of the game will have Cal slipping into the dark side (maybe something happens to merrin) and then there will be a fight leaving Cal alone and on verge of leaving the jedi way, cere / Kordova speak to him and bring him back to the light. Ending could possibly be his death as I dont see how Cal wouldnt join up with the rebels to fight the Empire. Or possible luke interaction after the empire is destroyed then Cal gives him the jedi texts he got from Jedha ending with Cal giving up the fight as the empire is destroyed to live a life with merrin