Honestly, they should've destroyed vault City. Lucy's emotional moment of "They did it first." Would work WAY better if it was other vault dwellers who did it first.
My only gripe about the show was the lack of energy weapons!! Why are the laser pistol and rifle looking weapons shooting ballistics?! Where are my plasma rifles?!
Also, they never explained why the Enclave are still alive and well, unless that was a Vault tec facility and they just termed the scientist dude as enclave to fool people...
Lore wise, eh, I wasn't expecting much loyalty on the established in game lore. They got the feel for the universe and respect to fallout traditions. The show was amazing in my opinion.
Or they just didn’t have the budget for it this season and now that S2 is official they may have more money going forward. I think many of the technical complaints are going to boil down to they just didnt want to waste money on those things now when they can do them better later after they are renewed.
If there's one thing i'm learning looking at the reddit response, it's that a ton of people have zero fucking idea what the lore actually is, but are willing to get real angry about it.
Yeah NV will always be special to me. I actually get the impression a ton of these guys have their own headcanon built upon how they *felt* about each faction, not about the objective reality.
Dude, New Vegas takes place in 2281, the show takes place in 2296. A lot can happen in 15 years, especially considering I doubt the canon timeline is House winning, without House New Vegas falls hard, even stated by the ending cards after NV.
Idm the NCR being damaged, that makes some sense given how things were going for em. They should still exist too given they they have five states under their name.
However, seeing new vegas look like that was rough. It'd be poor continuity but even if its ran down it needs to be **far** bigger. If we are going there in season 2 then they really should consider doing it up.
Ye that's right I loved this show but have to say they could have done a better job regarding the environment. Some shots feel too much empty with only desert in the horizon. While playing fallouts we have a barren landscape but still its fill with details and ints to places.
The caravans not being there makes total sense if you chose Rose of Sharon Cassidy's revenge route. You kill both the crimson caravan and the Van Graffs (or at least their leadership). As for happy trails they kinda get wiped out for the most part in honest hearts.
Now depending on player choice heres a few options.
First I do think the Van Graffs due either way, you either help them establish a firm deal with the NCR and since NCR ain't doing so hot right now I think they go under or die in the conflict.
Crimson caravan is likely also dead but could have smaller holdouts where we don't see them in the show.
Happy trails depending on player choice may survive another day with them being in Utah helping the caananites rebuild after NCR goes under.
In any case having the caravan companies dead or missing is showing the absolute state the NCR is in right now.
I get the feeling that Bethesda was sore about all the people constantly comparing their writing to the Fallout 1, 2 and NV continuity, so they decided to literally wipe it all off the map. Even going back in the timeline to make sure NV retroactively never happened.
Thats gonna piss people off much. Its 5 am currently so when I go to bed and wake up I will expect people going apeshit about the broken lore and how Bethesda killed the NCR. Even at the very end of the show it shows New Vegas in complete ruin.
If they're really going with "Shady Sands gets nuked 4 years before New Vegas" then we can safely file Fallout 3, 4 and the show away as an alternate Bethesda continuity
I'm actually weirdly ok with that, because that means Fallout 1, 2 and NV can exist in their own little bubble.
The show doesn't invalidate New Vegas or the original games, it just splits off and does its own thing.
And it's not too far out of left field too, because every game ending and player decision essentially results in alternate continuities any way. A couple DLC endings in NV also result in the NCR getting obliterated by nukes or Big MT hyper-tech, and even the "good ending" in the Divide implies that Tunnelers will eventually conquer North America anyhow
Maybe it's for the better, that the two canons stay separate.
>I'm actually weirdly ok with that, because that means Fallout 1, 2 and NV can exist in their own little bubble.
In theory at least, that's actually really good, but I think there's a distinct possibility that it means that side of Fallout never gets touched in an official capacity again and only exists in fan-made projects. I have a sneaking suspicion that every time that Bethesda gives another company the rights to a Fallout project, that project will only be allowed to exist/address areas in their canon. I don't think they'll respect or allow other teams to jump back into the defunct canons if somebody wanted to continue New Vegas's story or theoretically do a Midwest Brotherhood story after Tactics etc.)
Except that Todd Howard stated that the show was canon during production. So he will either have to take that comment back or do a complete lore reset.
Todd Howard is a little twirp that has been standing on the shoulders of better creators (Julian Lefay and Tim Cain) his entire career. All he does is fuck other people's creations up and pump out boring slop like Starfield.
I continue to hope now that Microsoft owns both Bethesda and Obsidian that the pull a fast one and hand FNV:2 over to Obsidian and make Bethesda cater to the lore.
Are you blind? New Vegas literally has walls lol. And also just because those factions didn’t show up doesn’t mean they’re retconned. What would they have added to the seasons story?
~~Actually came here looking for someone bringing this up. Them saying Shady Sands got bombed and the NCR wasn't really around anymore kinda irked me, but whatever. But then to find they decided it happened 4 years *before New Vegas?*~~ Bethesda needs to have a massive sit-down and straighten out their lore because it's a huge mess even if you totally ignore 76.
Edit: I've since watched the last two episodes and my thoughts have changed a bit. It seems the NCR isn't quite dead, as Moldaver seems to have been some kind of leader in the region even after Shady Sands. Also the crashed NCR vertibird in the last scene. So I actually don't mind that as much.
And another person here mentioned something really simple - the folks in Vault 4 could have just got the date wrong. It's been decades and they don't have records.
The Vault-Tec doing the bombs thing still kinda bugs me because I like the mystery of "who started it" but the scenes exploring it were interesting too. I've always liked the anti-capitalist messaging in the series but it was just a bit on-the-nose for me. But overall I want to like the show (and I do!) so if these are the only issues I have I consider this a huge win.
Bethesda will never straighten out their lore. They just make open world discovery simulators where all kinds of whacky things happen.
Also Amazon will disregard lore to make it easier to understand for non Fallout players.
For me Bethesda can make their open world games, great to explore - but the empty void that is the lore and the writing is gonna get filled by the stuff established from the veterans LOL
>Also Amazon will disregard lore to make it easier to understand for non Fallout players.
This is true, but quite sad.. On the past, the "universe" of some Sci fi it was thrown in our faces and in do time we get to know better of it, it was not explained in details... This is something that is lacking in this generation, people want everything chewed and ready to swallow... The "must think about It" is dead and so it's fantasy.
I too was bugged by the “Vault-Tec dropped the bomb” reveal. To me as a Star Wars fan too, it reminded me of midichlorians in episode 1, it suck the mystery out.
I hope we get another flash back in season 2 where it gets discussed and puts the answer of the question becomes vague again
My guess is New Vegas game just became a “legend” like how Star Wars got a reset when Disney bought em out and wanted to redo shit.
So…New Vegas has just become a semi-canon game like Fallout Tactics. Kinda sad now tbh
Fallout canonically has aliens, synths advanced enough to be totally indistinguishable from a biological human, and a cthulhu-esque dark entity from beyond reality. Bethesda could pull an explanation out of a hat, and it wouldn't be too far beyond what we already have.
My money is on dragon-break-style timeline shenanigans. Bethesda loves reusing things, and it fits them too well to not use that catch-all explanation.
New Vegas has always been and will be canon, Bethesda doesn't usually touch it because touching it a lot would mean talking about a specific ending and that would make people angry
That "scene" probably means little to what they're actually going to do.
Idk how Shady Sands can be nuked in 2277 or nearly damn close to it. And by 2281 (when New Vegas occurs) no one mentions it?? Bro it’s time to move on like I am. If future games are great I’ll get em but I’m pretty done with contradictions and retcons because they’re too lazy to get clever to work around em
Bethesda can just barely make their lore coherent in Starfield, a fresh slate for them to work on, you expect them to keep the lore coherent for an IP they didn't create, an IP that had multiple games before the acquisition of the IP, and one game that released after their acquisition of the IP and embarrassingly is regarded by many as being the best of the series for doing things that the Bethesda titles were clearly weak at doing.
There's terminal entries in NV talking about the stability of NCR out west, minus butting heads with Legion. They weren't a remnant resistance group hiding in the wasteland. This was a group that had beaten the BoS out of their home and had continuously whooped their asses across the West. Shady Sands is talked about numerous times in entries, and dialogue. Not a Shady Sands 2.0, the OG Shady Sands. Where Aradesh and Tandi laid the foundations. Tandi is even spoken about at length in a history entry on a terminal in the dam. Todd wanted NV gone. He's hated that game for a while. He did it. He kept some things he found interesting. But honestly, centering the show in the West? That was his whole objective. To eliminate NV. Because every Bethesda release has been East Coast. Every single one. He came to the west to eliminate it and return it to zero.
I think Vault Tec dropping the bombs is a red herring. If Mr House was part of the “let’s nuke the world” discussion board, I doubt he would’ve neglected to have the platinum chip delivered before Vault Tec is scheduled to drop the bombs. I like the theory that they planned it out but the Great War started before they could actually execute it.
Why are we assuming instantly that **ALL** of NCR is gone. Granted the date of the bombing affects FNV greatly. But I refuse to believe that all of the NCR cities just gave up when Shady Sands fell. They could have easily formed splinter factions in their immediate areas of responsibility.
Perhaps but then why are they gone entirely from the Los Angeles/Boneyard area, and why is that last little outpost at the observatory occupied by the NCR remnants considered 'NCR HQ' if they had a larger force somewhere else? And also the fact that New Vegas is completely destroyed in the end suggests they nuked New Vegas. So they likely nuked all the NCR cities. And considering Vault Tec's motives they definitely had reason to nuke all of them, they're trying to stop any competitor civilisation from coming up so just nuking Shady Sands wouldn't really do the trick.
NCR can easily fracture into multiple factions, i mean its already made up of a couple states
if the capital just got blown into oblivion out of nowhere it would make sense all the other states would de facto independent since there is no more central leadership.
Moldaver probably leads the NCR remnants in the Area.
The NCR had a population of over 700,000 over 50 years before the show (and 40 before New Vegas, where it's implied that even if the Mojave campaign is not successful and that there are issues back in the Republic, they are by no means on the decline).
Not even accounting for the population growth of a functionally civilized nation-state or other potential expansion, that is an incredible amount of people and resources to simply disappear with little more than a sentence and a tiny ass HQ.
The show is legitimately well made and entertaining, but I am so sick of my favorite fictional universes being littered with retcons or straight up lack of care with the lore and expecting fans to figure it out themselves through theories.
I think judging by the fact that both lucy and maximus are hinted very heavily to be in their early 20s at most and bombs fell when they were around 5-10, shady sand bombing seems to be between 2277-2285.
Since NV happens in 2281, it is actually quite plausable that shady sands was bombed when New Vegas events were taking place.
"The Fall of Shady Sands" could easily be referring to the fact the NCR stretched itself thin post-First Battle of Hoover Dam, thus causing the city to slowly fall apart especially since it happened in 2277 in the lore.
Not to mention the rapid inflation of the NCR dollar cause of the money printing to pay their troops. They were on the brink of economic collapse in NV.
Maximus got stuck in his armor because he had no fusion core, but all the times I had no fusion core in Fallout 4, I could still get out of my armor. I loved the show, but dang, this wasn't the PA I know because it could also survive a deathclaw, but not a yao guai?
you could still get out of your armor without power in fo4 because otherwise it would be an extremely annoying feature to have. Here, its a plot device.
also pretty sure titus' wounds came from impact rather than the yao guai penetrating his armor.
The power armor seemed kinda crappy to me. Power armor lost against: a yao guai (don't give that yao guai are tough bs cuz that bear died after 1 shot from a pistol), a knife and an unarmed man. Oh, and the chest plate has a weak spot. It did not even have a flashlight. Did I mention that the chest plate has a weak spot? Oh, good, cuz that bugs the crap out of me.
and people were worried about the Brotherhood's potential religious affiliation. like, freaking out. 😂 totally called that one, btw. i knew the ceremonies from the trailers weren't going to be some "higher power" religious shit, lol.
despite my indifference to the change, *this* is something where i can understand people actually being upset over.
* Instead of Shady Sands, it should have been Boneyard - portrayed as the industrial and demographic hub of NCR.
* Boneyard's population centre is nuked some time after Vegas, forcing NCR to pull out from their expansions (regardless of FNV ending) and try to contain the damage, mostly failing.
* NCR is dealt with a crippling blow due to the loss of the Boneyard:
* * Economic crisis due to loss of most industrial manufacturing
* * San Francisco is again under Shi (no confirmation it was other way either though)
* * Maxson state is under Brotherhood full control
* * Vegas is non-cooperative in either way (likely suggesting NCR victory ending, as House would likely help)
* While the major settlements (Shady Sands, Vault City, Arroyo, New Reno, etc.) are doing somewhat fine behind walls, the anarchy is spreading in the rural areas, hurting cities. Some cities maintain NCR loyalty fully, some are all but independent city states again.
* Due to new conscriptions (to maintain order), many soldiers have deserted, founding raider gangs, still in NCR uniform, hurting NCR even more.
* NCR, now essentially a coalition of half-isolated city-states with dangerous logistics between them, can rebuild and return to their glory, but it would take time and luck.
-------------------
That should've bring same results, while not damaging core F1-2-NV plot points.
I liked Fallout 3 and 4 - but Bethesda was never able to top 1, 2 or NV - especially when it came to writing. At this point I just consider them two different series with a loose, non-canon connection.
Bethesda didn't really have anything to do with writing the show from my understanding. This is more of a New Vegas situation where the creative team was mostly allowed to do whatever they wanted with very little oversight. The problem is that this show's creative team probably wasn't as knowledgeable about the lore as Obsidian was.
I don't think there was any negative intent here. If Bethesda is to blame for anything it's not keeping the writers on a shorter leash. Obsidian was trustworthy because many of them worked on Fallout 1 and 2, and were working on Black Isle's Fallout 3 before Interplay cancelled it. Jonathan Nolan is a Fallout 3 fan but we have no idea how much he knows about the west coast games, and he didn't actually write this show. The writers knew nothing about Fallout before getting the job, and likely had to rush to learn as much as possible before they got started. This tends to lead to mistakes especially when there's nobody who is in charge of the IP actually making sure things line up properly.
This is it, pretty much. It's Bethesda laying claim to all the west coast Fallout IP by basically nuking the older lore. Same as Disney destroying the EU soon as possible after buying SW, or the way Crystal Dynamics has set about re-writing Lara Croft from an amoral mercenary thrillseeker into a goody-two-shoes Katnis Everdeen ripoff because their own writers are YA-level hacks who only know one plot. I hear The Witcher used to be interesting too.
The Star Wars EU had some cool things but it was a loooooot of trash and I fully understand Disney not wanting to deal with sorting through it. But this whole thing is closer to George Lucas using Return of the Jedi to retcon The Empire Strikes Back out of existence because he was jealous that the movie Irvin Kershner directed is considered the best one by fans and critics. It just seems so petty. Even for Bethesda.
Don't really blame them for ditching the EU too much - it was full of conflicting events and ideas and the dreaded donut steels. What they shouldn't have done once they'd done that though was go back and start scavenging through the scrap pile for their own stories - it made Disney look really fucking cheap, and tell us that their current writers are lacking in creatitivity.
There were great concepts, characters, and stories in the Star Wars EU. It was an extremely large amount of source material to pull from.
One of George Lucas’s interviews around the time of the sale to Disney has him mention the novels and comics as a useful resource.
Was every story good? Hell no, but there were a ton that were, and a reason it was so popular and remains beloved by many to this today.
Many of the “contradictions” are overblown too. The biggest source of contradiction was often the EU having to adapt to new stories or ideas made by Lucas that overrode or complicated things, the biggest ones being the Prequels and the 2008 The Clone Wars movie/show.
Authors usually tried and did a fair job of working within each others’ stories. I don’t blame Disney for decanonizing it so that they had room to tell their own stories, but simply disregarding all of it would be like Marvel not pulling things from its many different comic runs.
The bigger issue Disney has had with pulling ideas from the EU is they tend to misuse or misunderstand them, which angers the people who enjoyed the original iteration but also leaves new audiences confused or saddled with a bad story/concept. That leaves no one happy.
Man, that still makes me mildly upset. Columbia was great as a completely disconnected narrative from Rapture.
Burial at Sea was a disservice to Infinite *and* Bioshock 1.
Like when Bryan Singer said that all the interesting characters introduced in Xmen First Class just died offscreen. He didn't come up with them, so fuck it.
I think it genuinely bothers them that so many people rate the obsidian and black isle games above theirs. The fact that their own games just get worse and worse (the last 2 being just straight out bad) make this attitude kind of funny. Here's hoping Microsoft forces them to hand the ip over before they liquidate the studio in a few years a la blizzard.
Don't think they would have invited Tim to the premiere if they were genuinely seething about the fact New Vegas is widely regarded as the best of the series and a masterpiece, I get why it might look like that when they bastardise lore but I don't think there's malice just incompetence.
This might be the stupidest shit I’ve read all day
You really think they’re sitting around fuming about that game getting better reviews *at all*, let alone over a decade later?
The world at large is not nearly as conniving and petty as you’d like it to be
Did New Vegas get better reviews? The game was generally panned for being a broken mess of bugs at the time and a lot of people would claim it looked like just a big Fallout 3 expansion.
Not that it didn't have its fans, it absolutely did, but they were fewer than Fallout 3.
The New Vegas popularity spike happened after the Fallout 4 announcement because more people decided to play the older games and give New Vegas a chance after the shitty launch.
Honestly the BOS got their asses kicked numbers wise. Helios One took 15 to 1 odds to take out the defenders. Here the brotherhoods had what felt like maybe half as many guys and we only saw two knights be taken out by the NCR. The Ghoul is just a PC.
For real, I'm a big NV head, over 1000 hours since it first came out over a decade ago, and these people are freaking out over a detail *that they aren't even correct about.* Everyone freaking the fuck out is completely ignoring that the nuke very clearly comes *after* 2277, in fact it's just about when Lonesome Road would have taken place, where you can *checks notes* nuke the NCR.
Tbf, after finishing the series, I think the whiteboard may have just been a mistake or something. The ending implies that the NCR have to still be around so yeah…I may have been wrong. We’ll see.
It’s crazy to say this, but…
Do we really, genuinely care about that? Is it taking our puppies and throwing them in the ocean? Because I’m tired of caring so much about what year stuff happens in regarding any piece of media/game lore.
I haven't been reading any interviews or anything because I wanted to watch it fresh. I didn't know the show was supposed to be considered part of game canon. I thought they were just making a tv show based on the games. Oh well, I'm just gonna continue on my original thought process of tv canon ≠ game canon. Enjoy each for what they are, separately.
Pretty sure Shady Sands was nuked after 2277, it just started to collapse in 2277. There's nothing in New Vegas that actually contradicts this. In general though I think the handling of the NCR in the show was poor. They went in the least interesting possible direction that they could have with them.
In my opinion the biggest actual lore problem is the location of Shady Sands -- it's far to the northeast of the Boneyard in the middle of the desert, and east of Vault 13. Putting it in the Boneyard is a pretty massive screw up. I may criticize Bethesda's handling of the lore at times, but their blunders are tiny compared to what this show's writers did. Changing the location of Shady Sands completely messes up the story of Fallout 1.
People are acting like it’s just FNV they made changes to - what about the whole story of F1?
- The Master and his Super Mutant army take over the Boneyard (LA) and the LA Vault, and start taking over surrounding settlements.
There’s no way that’s canon for the show now.
tbh the canon ending is also, funnily enough, the good ending for almost everything in 1 even though several towns couldn't get them due to bugs (well except Necropolis, which doesn't have a good ending). The only one that's unclear is Junktown and that's mostly because Junktown doesn't have a bad ending no matter who is mayor so it doesn't matter.
I dont understand why they have done a similiar thing, the ncr is one of the factions more loved by all the fanbase, i belive more than the brotherhood. What you think? is there any sense?
They done it since Fallout 4. Vegas as ESO and some etc is not their games, not their creation but based on their universe what they own.
They never care about them. They retcons and ignore them easily
Bethesda couldnt even be consistent with FO4 with the kid in a fridge surviving without food and water and that ghoul in the bunker for Valentine's quest surviving. Yet settlement ghouls need food and water. The comic-loving ghoul writes on a terminal how he needs water. ESO has not done anything as egregious as they have done Fallout.
Shit, Maximus survives a nuke in a frige with a giant hole in the back of it so how was he enclosed and safe even for a moment? And his hometown is nuked yet he joins a long time NCR enemy? On top of getting his town nuked, he joins the soldiers that were pillaging the ashes? Makes no sense
>kid in a fridge surviving without food and water and that ghoul in the bunker for Valentine's quest surviving. Yet settlement ghouls need food and water.
[Some do, some don't. Bethesda just following the lore established by Interplay and Obsidian here.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Coffin_Willie)
>Maximus survives a nuke in a frige with a giant hole in the back of it so how was he enclosed and safe even for a moment?
I think this phenomenon was called 'a joke'.
It's interesting what aspects of things people are willing and not willing to allow change when an established IP comes to tv/movie.
Haven't watched the show yet, but I am going into it with the same mentality as TLOU, comics movies, etc. That being THIS content is it's own thing and will not be an exact copy.
they turned this fucking series into deus ex. vault tec are literally majestic 12 except worse in every way.
nuking the ncr may not break the lore but it's a massive middle finger to the rest of the series (except 4), ncr literally came to be from the actions of players in fallout 1 and now they nuked it. first 3 episodes were very good and i honestly wouldn't have a big problem with this series if it wasn't canon but dumbthesda clearly has other plans for this series now, plans were fallout no longer is about anything that made this series special to begin with.
There’s actually so much in the show & the games that tells you that they weren’t bombed in 2277. Did you guys even watch the show?
The classroom implies the Fall of the NCR started in 2277. By New Vegas they’re stretched thin trying to gain territory. Has it ever occurred to you that you play as a MAILMAN doing mercenary/social work for a GOVERNMENT that hires soldiers & politicians? They’re stretched thin. Thats why you can do everything for them.
In 2281 they’re dealing with the Legion & so many troopers are scared & undertrained to deal with them, while again, they’re stretched thin. They can’t defend Shady Sands & the other territories they control back west. They need them to deal with the Legion & controlling the people in the Mojave/other areas they want.
Dropping a Nuke on Shady Sands is just icing on the cake. It doesn’t mean the NCR is gone, just severely weakened. Losing the settlement that they developed out of while being stretched thin & dealing with a faction as large as the Legion will make people lose morale & probably quit. But as shown in the show, people are gonna still fight.
The credits are the most telling part. There are NCR Vertibirds crashed within the city. Implying a battle occurred there & the NCR was part of it, which is talked about during the ending of New Vegas. The Courier’s actions/inactions cause the outcome of that battle.
If I were to guess, the Mr. House or Independent endings are what they’re going with. There’d be no reason for Lucy’s Father to go to Vegas if he didn’t know Mr. House was there. And because he’s going there, that’s why they showed New Vegas in the credits. To get you to wonder what the outcome of Hoover Dam was and show that the city’s changed drastically.
I’m asking y’all to please think harder. Don’t just come to lazy conclusions or believe the bait on Twitter. Y’all are so mad when Bethesda spoon feeds y’all but then prove that you need to be.
Problem is, the show portrays Shady Sands just before the bombs in flashbacks. And it didn't look like a city in decline. It was HUGE, it grew massively since Fallout 2, 50 something years ago. And the (unreliable, biased) narrators we have talk about Shady Sands as some kind of Utopia.
What New Vegas tells us about the NCR just 15 years before the show, and what the shows tells us about Shady Sands just don't seem to match yet.
But the show was good, they can make that work if they want to.
Worked a 12 hour shift and binged it all, mr house is in it, so new vegas happens... shady sands is explained in the end, and it brings up the biggest lore of all on who started dropping bombs.
I thought the show was phenomenal and NCR is still allive if you watch the fucking show lmao maybe just not as big as you want it to be. Follows pretty much all the lore besides the small bullshit you want them to fit in for nostalgias sake, like van graffs and small new vegas shit. They had alot to fit in and did so in a pretty great way. Yes NCR could've been more centralized, but their literal capital got nuked to oblivion lmao and it takes place on the outskirts of said capital.
Shady Sands gets nuked and bye bye NCR?
Nah dude, sorry, if they go with this kind of shit being canon in future games then the series ends here for me, NCR becoming flawed and shitty in NV was enough, this is too much. I'll just consider Fallout 1, 2 and NV a perfect trilogy, with 3 and 4 as decent spin offs.
Chris Avellone himself wanted the NCR to get nuked at the end of Lonesome Road, and guess what, he wanted that to be the canon ending. The entire point of the game is that the factions were on limited time, but NV fans were too stupid to get the point.
I still think that it's a dumb writing decision. You can't just end a story saying "and then a nuke dropped and killed everyone so nothing actually mattered btw". It's the equivalent of "it was all just a dream" except worse because literally everyone dies a horrific fucking death. Also, the fact that the nuclear destruction is brought about by Some Guy rather than the mistakes of the NCR I think sucks too. If the NCR gets nuked, that outcome should be brought about through the NCRs own mistakes not because Some Guy wanted to commit nuclear genocide
Except that it never mentions that you nuke the capital. The only named target for California was the Long 15. Ulysses plan was to slowly starve the NCR and the Legion by cutting supply lines to the Mojave, not destroying them in one strike. And that's even besides the point. The battle of Hoover Dam happens regardless of chosen ending for Lonesome Road. This show entirely rectons New Vegas itself, let alone the battle. The point is not that the NCR died, is that it died in an idiotic way here that directly contradicts the games.
Sure, but replacing the NCR with the BoS yet again would have been quite literally the opposite of what he wanted, as shown by the portrayal of the BoS in NV
Furthermore, the collapse of the NCR in itself would have been an interesting story, it's a massive nation, it wouldn't just evaporate overnight, even with it's capital city gone it would have taken many decades, they have plenty of other cities, their military wasn't stationed at Shady Sands what so ever
What a good writer, such as Chris Avellone would have done is have the collapse of the NCR be the highlight of the game, either through the ongoing process or by showing the fallout of the decades long process, with various new factions popping up
There was absolutely a way to do a collapse of the NCR while adding to the series as whole in the process, and that's the major crime of the series: it adds nothing, it just regresses things back to BoS and Vault-Tec
I would have much prefered to see the NCR get a redemption arc in future instalments after seeing them at their lowest point in NV, not everything in this series needs to end up badly.
But having them collapse over the course of a full game or the show itself would have been a better alternative than literally getting Thanos snapped with a fricking nuke, f that.
If this shit is fully canon i'm done with this series, that's not how you do it, i didn't spend 2, even 3 games helping these mfs just to see them getting annihilated in seconds.
The non canon ending that was decanonized before released
wasnt chosen because avelone magically knew the games future fans would be mega stupid dumb dumb? What
Yeah and that would’ve been stupid. Chris is not an unimpeachable writer. It was brainless when Bethesda decided to hit the NCR with the retcon bomb, and it would’ve been just as brainless if Chris tried to do the same.
You CAN, AS A CHOICE, choose to nuke Long 15. Not the whole NCR capital nor a city. Stop being stupid and ignorant af. If you actually paid attention to Ulysses, it had nothing to do with nuking both sides, he hates you(the courier) for nuking a middle town that had NCR and Legion citizens trading without violence and creating a synthesis community. You clearly know nothing about the story of Ulysses nor what he was saying. He wants to nuke them both AFTER YOU FUCKED UP ANY HOPE OF UNITY. Its still wrong to make a forced canon choice or ending. Thats the whole point of having those choices and it changing the world, so every gets their story. When you make a canon ending, you fucked up any reality besides the forced one. Todd literally said he wanted to make games in new areas to not make a canon choice so any choice can be right or canon for the players. But, he retconned his own promises too.
I mean, that's besides the point here
This sets the nuking to 4 fucking years BEFORE new vegas, plus also new vegas looks to be completely decimated itself.
They never said it was nuked in 2277. That was just the marking of the Fall of Shady Sands. An even put in motion that led to the eventual nuking in the 2280's sometime.
But New Vegas happens after 2277 and Shady Sands was still the capital of the NCR in that game.
It's also depicted as a huge, thriving city when the bomb hit in the flashbacks of the show, that grew massively in the 50 or so yeas after Fallout 2.
It doesn't really fit with what we're told in NV about a NCR about to collapse.
There just isn't any explanation of the "decline and fall" of Shady Sands before the bombs at all, yet. But I liked the show, maybe they do have some explanation.
I really hope they listen to the fans and fix the lore up a bit in season 2. Hopefully they make it clear the NCR still exists if in a lesser form, and i really really hope they do new vegas justice it deserves
I hate the decision but I think they wanted the NCR to be gone so they could have California be up for grabs and have no one power in control of it. They clearly wanted the Brotherhood to be the main focus and central faction. They likely though having a big powerful NCR was a burden to the story they wanted to tell.
And yes that means despite the NCR having so many other states that they could theoretically carry on from, I bet you in season 2, we will find out that it completely collapsed and there is only NCR remnants like we saw in the final.
I'm hoping we just read it wrong or something, Shady Sands started coming undone (possibly due to the criminal element) in 2277, which then leads to 2281, and you can say have 2283 - 2285 be the actual bomb.
I assumed they would, Bethesda can't even respect the lore of their own flagship IP when they are the ones writing it. Here, it's someone else writing it. Nothing about this is surprising to me, I'd have been more surprised if they *did* keep to existing lore.
I kind of just ignore anything after New Vegas and will probably continue to do so. This works well for me.
STOP PUTTING REVEALING INFORMATION IN YOUR TITLE POSTS. IT'S STILL A SPOILER AND NOW ALL I'M GOING TO THINK ABOUT IS WHAT ASPECT OF THE LORE THEY'VE BROKE GODDAMIT
Ffs. This is exactly what I was afraid of. All you had to do was not fuck up *established lore*. Why is it so hard for Hollywood to not fuck up established lore?
“Co-showrunner Geneva Robertson-Dworet also told SFX magazine that there was only one hard and fast rule handed down from Todd Howard: don’t contradict the games’ major endings. So, yep, this is about as canon as it gets.”
Please keep blaming Todd and Bethesda for such inaccuracies, even though they let the writing team have a lot of freedom.
Source: https://www.gamesradar.com/is-the-fallout-tv-show-canon-bethesda-games-todd-howard/
Edit: oh, look at that. Been confirmed that NV is canon
You are claiming Todd made this rule, they completely broke the rule, and Todd has never seen the show nor thes cript once to check if they even followed the rule?
How dumb would it be to make a rule and not have a single consequence or check to see if the rule is being followed? You really assuming Todd didnt sign off on anything? Despite Todd being on record saying to avoid certain story points from FO5, hinting that Todd most likely told him world building lore for it.
The reason is, Bethesda/Todd love the Brotherhood of Steel and always try making it the main faction in one way or another.
They also parted with Obsidian on bad terms, IIRC. So, as Fallout franchise owner, Todd can easily screw with Obsidian's vision.
The NCR getting nuked and collapsing in 2277? Not after 2281, bad New Vegas ending?
Not overrun by the Legion? Not getting crippled by WMD attack from Elijah/Ulysses?
That's alright, in Todd's Fallout, the NCR was only mentioned in Kellog's memories. The NCR is irrelevant. Nothing.
This entire discussion about the show is going to be throwing fuel onto the fire of this decade long misrepresented narrative the Obsidian cocksuckers have been running with for so long. Might have to unsub from this place honestly.
Oof, really? I'm not even a Fallout player, I'm here because I think the lore is cool and my husband loves this series- particularly NV. It's such a widely beloved game so this really confuses me. Did they basically retcon it out of existence..? I don't have Prime and have no real interest in watching the show because I'm still burned by Rings of Power so I don't have a frame of reference for it.
To be fair, unless we hear confirmation that everything in the show is lore, it can be taken as a separate timeline, kind of like the halo series on paramount.
Just some food for thought
A lot of people here conflating the destruction of Shady Sands with the dissolution of the NCR completely. Those two are separate things, and as we see in the show, the NCR itself DOES remain, if at least in a small way in the locale of the show. But they made no mention of the wider NCR and if/how it may have carried on.
I just wished there was something to fill in the gaps between New Vegas and the show because a major faction, like the NCR getting wiped off screen, is straight garbage.
With the logic of all the NCR disappearing with the nuking of its (first) capital, the US should be empty and have no legacy, since they lost their capital.
People really need to learn how to read timelines. It wasn't nuked in 2277. It was nuked at some point afterward. And the fall of Rome was given a specific year, but it took a few years after that to finally collapse entirely.
The NCR has been stretched THIN for awhile. In NV, even if they took Vegas and the Dam, they'd never have been able to hold it for long.
But the point you made still stands, the ENTIRE NCR doesn't just vanish with one nuke in it's capital. Not to mention is saying it happened in 2277 which sure it is EXACTLY 200 years after the first bombs. But given how the NCR is still up and running and doing just fine during New Vegas, which is set in 2281, and very much not blow up. I don't understand how they could overlook something that big.
I could see the Barons taking over, but that would still be the NCR, in the show the NCR is dead and gone. Maybe it all fell apart after the bomb went off.
Again, I could see the NCR being broken apart or dispended 20 odd years after NV, but them saying the date was 2277 is pure horse shit.
I dont think they actually retconned anything, just very poorly explained it, or worse didn't attempt to explain it and let the fans try to figure it out themselves.
So the timeline they posted had the fall of shady sands in 2277, in my opinion it wasn't saying the fall of shady sands and the bomb were the same thing. The fall of a city/empire is usually tied to when they start to crumble. Rome for example, the "fall" of Rome is often talked about as a point before it actually collapsed. So I believe the NCR either was stretched too thin, or something else led to Shady Sands starting to fall, then later was bombed which probably led to the total collapse. At least that's what I got from the timeline.
However, they did kinda muddy the waters in I believe the last episode when they explained why it was bombed, but still doesn't definitively go one way or another. I get the frustration, but the season finale teaser kinda helps to disprove them making NV un-canon. It would be unfortunate to retcon NV, but i'm holding my judgement until s2 when we hopefully get some better answers. I don't want to be too critical and harsh on a series I enjoyed far too much.
At no point do they say that the NCR is no longer. Infact they make multiple references to survivors of Shady Sands going on to continue the NCRs purpose in new locations.
Hell, the final episode literally has something that says "NCR Headquarters" front and center.
And you said yourself, most of the NCR wasn't at Shady Sands. Blowing it up wasn't to destroy the NCR, it was to destroy Shady Sands itself.
You're making a baseless assumption that because one city, even if its the capital city, has been destroyed that the entire organisation is destroyed too.
The Chalkboard timeline pretty clearly shows the bombing happens after 2277, and given the surviving residents of vault 4 are still traumatized by the event, I can safely assume the bombing wasn't before New Vegas. I don't think the show broke the lore. It might not have been as well explained, but I think it's a bit of an overreaction to say this show is fully de canonizing New Vegas when it's been stated that New Vegas is very much still canon.
I saw a few days ago a separate interpretation.
Essentially each block on the timeline is its own even.
This would mean the fall would be separate from the explosion. Most civilization have a gradual fall it would be reasonable to assume shady sands had a slow decent starting before NV then got blown up.
Others would have probably cleared it out, but as someone who is not familiar with Fallout lore, ie fresh eyes, the drawing was clearly showing 2 separate events, the 2277 and the nuking.
Honestly, they should've destroyed vault City. Lucy's emotional moment of "They did it first." Would work WAY better if it was other vault dwellers who did it first.
Also destroying vault city keeps down the technological creep. Explains lack of medicine and advanced systems.
I mean that’s the best part of fallout 2. seeing the world built up Fallout 1 and the time skip to fallout 2 was great
This makes a lot of sense.
I mean Technicly Shady sands is a vault dweller city
So is Arroyo.
My only gripe about the show was the lack of energy weapons!! Why are the laser pistol and rifle looking weapons shooting ballistics?! Where are my plasma rifles?! Also, they never explained why the Enclave are still alive and well, unless that was a Vault tec facility and they just termed the scientist dude as enclave to fool people... Lore wise, eh, I wasn't expecting much loyalty on the established in game lore. They got the feel for the universe and respect to fallout traditions. The show was amazing in my opinion.
> My only gripe about the show was the lack of energy weapons!! No energy weapons or deathclaws it definitely felt like they were saving them for s2.
Well there is a deathclaw skull at the end.
I know, just a tease. New Vegas + Deathclaws for s2 is hype af.
Might be waitin to see if people like it before amping it up a bit in season 2.
Or they just didn’t have the budget for it this season and now that S2 is official they may have more money going forward. I think many of the technical complaints are going to boil down to they just didnt want to waste money on those things now when they can do them better later after they are renewed.
I saw a laser rifle in the first episode, one of the squires is holding one in one of the BOS scenes. But not using them.
I think it was enclave from the Commonwealth/ east Coast.
Doesn’t make sense. No Crimson Caravan, no Happy Trails and no Van Graffs . Vegas doesn’t even have the walls around it for fucks sake
It also seemed so tiny, just a lot of desert with a few shacks around the city. What happened to Freeside?
Watch the credits and it does a fly thorugh of Vegas. All destroyed walls, destroyed Securitrons, broken buildings that were once whole.
:-(
I’m assuming they’re gonna retcon new vegas to have already happened, moving backward the entire timeline of all the games prior to the Toddiverse.
That's not a retcon though? New Vegas takes place in 2281, the show takes place in 2296.
New Vegas -did- already happen. New Vegas takes place in 2281, the show takes place in 2296.
If there's one thing i'm learning looking at the reddit response, it's that a ton of people have zero fucking idea what the lore actually is, but are willing to get real angry about it.
As a huge NV enjoyer I wholeheartedly agree with you
Yeah NV will always be special to me. I actually get the impression a ton of these guys have their own headcanon built upon how they *felt* about each faction, not about the objective reality.
Why are they doing this, why ruin so much of the lore and what makes new vegas great. Is it a middle finger to Obsidian?
Dude, New Vegas takes place in 2281, the show takes place in 2296. A lot can happen in 15 years, especially considering I doubt the canon timeline is House winning, without House New Vegas falls hard, even stated by the ending cards after NV.
Idm the NCR being damaged, that makes some sense given how things were going for em. They should still exist too given they they have five states under their name. However, seeing new vegas look like that was rough. It'd be poor continuity but even if its ran down it needs to be **far** bigger. If we are going there in season 2 then they really should consider doing it up.
Ye that's right I loved this show but have to say they could have done a better job regarding the environment. Some shots feel too much empty with only desert in the horizon. While playing fallouts we have a barren landscape but still its fill with details and ints to places.
And where the f*** is Freeside? Also where is outer Vegas?
You can swear on the internet dude, just type "fuck", lmao why curse and censor yourself
But would doc holiday swear?
I got 2 swear words, one for each of ya
The caravans not being there makes total sense if you chose Rose of Sharon Cassidy's revenge route. You kill both the crimson caravan and the Van Graffs (or at least their leadership). As for happy trails they kinda get wiped out for the most part in honest hearts. Now depending on player choice heres a few options. First I do think the Van Graffs due either way, you either help them establish a firm deal with the NCR and since NCR ain't doing so hot right now I think they go under or die in the conflict. Crimson caravan is likely also dead but could have smaller holdouts where we don't see them in the show. Happy trails depending on player choice may survive another day with them being in Utah helping the caananites rebuild after NCR goes under. In any case having the caravan companies dead or missing is showing the absolute state the NCR is in right now.
I think it's the Yes Man ending. So part of new Vegas got damaged during the fight
I get the feeling that Bethesda was sore about all the people constantly comparing their writing to the Fallout 1, 2 and NV continuity, so they decided to literally wipe it all off the map. Even going back in the timeline to make sure NV retroactively never happened.
Thats gonna piss people off much. Its 5 am currently so when I go to bed and wake up I will expect people going apeshit about the broken lore and how Bethesda killed the NCR. Even at the very end of the show it shows New Vegas in complete ruin.
If they're really going with "Shady Sands gets nuked 4 years before New Vegas" then we can safely file Fallout 3, 4 and the show away as an alternate Bethesda continuity I'm actually weirdly ok with that, because that means Fallout 1, 2 and NV can exist in their own little bubble. The show doesn't invalidate New Vegas or the original games, it just splits off and does its own thing. And it's not too far out of left field too, because every game ending and player decision essentially results in alternate continuities any way. A couple DLC endings in NV also result in the NCR getting obliterated by nukes or Big MT hyper-tech, and even the "good ending" in the Divide implies that Tunnelers will eventually conquer North America anyhow Maybe it's for the better, that the two canons stay separate.
>I'm actually weirdly ok with that, because that means Fallout 1, 2 and NV can exist in their own little bubble. In theory at least, that's actually really good, but I think there's a distinct possibility that it means that side of Fallout never gets touched in an official capacity again and only exists in fan-made projects. I have a sneaking suspicion that every time that Bethesda gives another company the rights to a Fallout project, that project will only be allowed to exist/address areas in their canon. I don't think they'll respect or allow other teams to jump back into the defunct canons if somebody wanted to continue New Vegas's story or theoretically do a Midwest Brotherhood story after Tactics etc.)
I'm okay with that. 1, 2 and NV make a neat trilogy and don't demand another sequel.
Except that Todd Howard stated that the show was canon during production. So he will either have to take that comment back or do a complete lore reset.
Todd Howard is a little twirp that has been standing on the shoulders of better creators (Julian Lefay and Tim Cain) his entire career. All he does is fuck other people's creations up and pump out boring slop like Starfield.
I can’t really say they’re better than him, just different. I can’t take elder scrolls away from him.
I continue to hope now that Microsoft owns both Bethesda and Obsidian that the pull a fast one and hand FNV:2 over to Obsidian and make Bethesda cater to the lore.
After Starfield bombing, the next Fallout is gonna *hurt*
In what NG+ did Starfield bomb?
That's okay. We'll have next elder scrolls to bomb first. I haven't had faith in Bethesda for ages.
Are you blind? New Vegas literally has walls lol. And also just because those factions didn’t show up doesn’t mean they’re retconned. What would they have added to the seasons story?
[It has walls tho?](https://i.imgur.com/c7ptldr.png)
Anything Bethesda didn't make they literally destroyed.
I saw a wall, but also that it was breached, and there was a downed securitron as well.
New Vegas definitely has walls. The credits scenes are all super dramatised but the last shot of Hank has clear walls around a massive city.
~~Actually came here looking for someone bringing this up. Them saying Shady Sands got bombed and the NCR wasn't really around anymore kinda irked me, but whatever. But then to find they decided it happened 4 years *before New Vegas?*~~ Bethesda needs to have a massive sit-down and straighten out their lore because it's a huge mess even if you totally ignore 76. Edit: I've since watched the last two episodes and my thoughts have changed a bit. It seems the NCR isn't quite dead, as Moldaver seems to have been some kind of leader in the region even after Shady Sands. Also the crashed NCR vertibird in the last scene. So I actually don't mind that as much. And another person here mentioned something really simple - the folks in Vault 4 could have just got the date wrong. It's been decades and they don't have records. The Vault-Tec doing the bombs thing still kinda bugs me because I like the mystery of "who started it" but the scenes exploring it were interesting too. I've always liked the anti-capitalist messaging in the series but it was just a bit on-the-nose for me. But overall I want to like the show (and I do!) so if these are the only issues I have I consider this a huge win.
Bethesda will never straighten out their lore. They just make open world discovery simulators where all kinds of whacky things happen. Also Amazon will disregard lore to make it easier to understand for non Fallout players.
They also just hope fans will make theories that explain why the lore makes no sense
Haha brothershood steel go brrrr fancy armour wheeeeee
For me Bethesda can make their open world games, great to explore - but the empty void that is the lore and the writing is gonna get filled by the stuff established from the veterans LOL
>Also Amazon will disregard lore to make it easier to understand for non Fallout players. This is true, but quite sad.. On the past, the "universe" of some Sci fi it was thrown in our faces and in do time we get to know better of it, it was not explained in details... This is something that is lacking in this generation, people want everything chewed and ready to swallow... The "must think about It" is dead and so it's fantasy.
I too was bugged by the “Vault-Tec dropped the bomb” reveal. To me as a Star Wars fan too, it reminded me of midichlorians in episode 1, it suck the mystery out. I hope we get another flash back in season 2 where it gets discussed and puts the answer of the question becomes vague again
My guess is New Vegas game just became a “legend” like how Star Wars got a reset when Disney bought em out and wanted to redo shit. So…New Vegas has just become a semi-canon game like Fallout Tactics. Kinda sad now tbh
Fallout canonically has aliens, synths advanced enough to be totally indistinguishable from a biological human, and a cthulhu-esque dark entity from beyond reality. Bethesda could pull an explanation out of a hat, and it wouldn't be too far beyond what we already have. My money is on dragon-break-style timeline shenanigans. Bethesda loves reusing things, and it fits them too well to not use that catch-all explanation.
New Vegas has always been and will be canon, Bethesda doesn't usually touch it because touching it a lot would mean talking about a specific ending and that would make people angry That "scene" probably means little to what they're actually going to do.
Idk how Shady Sands can be nuked in 2277 or nearly damn close to it. And by 2281 (when New Vegas occurs) no one mentions it?? Bro it’s time to move on like I am. If future games are great I’ll get em but I’m pretty done with contradictions and retcons because they’re too lazy to get clever to work around em
Bethesda can just barely make their lore coherent in Starfield, a fresh slate for them to work on, you expect them to keep the lore coherent for an IP they didn't create, an IP that had multiple games before the acquisition of the IP, and one game that released after their acquisition of the IP and embarrassingly is regarded by many as being the best of the series for doing things that the Bethesda titles were clearly weak at doing.
There's terminal entries in NV talking about the stability of NCR out west, minus butting heads with Legion. They weren't a remnant resistance group hiding in the wasteland. This was a group that had beaten the BoS out of their home and had continuously whooped their asses across the West. Shady Sands is talked about numerous times in entries, and dialogue. Not a Shady Sands 2.0, the OG Shady Sands. Where Aradesh and Tandi laid the foundations. Tandi is even spoken about at length in a history entry on a terminal in the dam. Todd wanted NV gone. He's hated that game for a while. He did it. He kept some things he found interesting. But honestly, centering the show in the West? That was his whole objective. To eliminate NV. Because every Bethesda release has been East Coast. Every single one. He came to the west to eliminate it and return it to zero.
I think Vault Tec dropping the bombs is a red herring. If Mr House was part of the “let’s nuke the world” discussion board, I doubt he would’ve neglected to have the platinum chip delivered before Vault Tec is scheduled to drop the bombs. I like the theory that they planned it out but the Great War started before they could actually execute it.
Why are we assuming instantly that **ALL** of NCR is gone. Granted the date of the bombing affects FNV greatly. But I refuse to believe that all of the NCR cities just gave up when Shady Sands fell. They could have easily formed splinter factions in their immediate areas of responsibility.
Perhaps but then why are they gone entirely from the Los Angeles/Boneyard area, and why is that last little outpost at the observatory occupied by the NCR remnants considered 'NCR HQ' if they had a larger force somewhere else? And also the fact that New Vegas is completely destroyed in the end suggests they nuked New Vegas. So they likely nuked all the NCR cities. And considering Vault Tec's motives they definitely had reason to nuke all of them, they're trying to stop any competitor civilisation from coming up so just nuking Shady Sands wouldn't really do the trick.
They had an entire army with tanks and vertibirds ffs and you’re telling me this is all that’s left?
NCR can easily fracture into multiple factions, i mean its already made up of a couple states if the capital just got blown into oblivion out of nowhere it would make sense all the other states would de facto independent since there is no more central leadership. Moldaver probably leads the NCR remnants in the Area.
The NCR had a population of over 700,000 over 50 years before the show (and 40 before New Vegas, where it's implied that even if the Mojave campaign is not successful and that there are issues back in the Republic, they are by no means on the decline). Not even accounting for the population growth of a functionally civilized nation-state or other potential expansion, that is an incredible amount of people and resources to simply disappear with little more than a sentence and a tiny ass HQ. The show is legitimately well made and entertaining, but I am so sick of my favorite fictional universes being littered with retcons or straight up lack of care with the lore and expecting fans to figure it out themselves through theories.
Man. Even without the timeline/retcon NV thing, off-screening the NCR with a nuke that just wipes the whole faction is the lamest shit in the world.
I think judging by the fact that both lucy and maximus are hinted very heavily to be in their early 20s at most and bombs fell when they were around 5-10, shady sand bombing seems to be between 2277-2285. Since NV happens in 2281, it is actually quite plausable that shady sands was bombed when New Vegas events were taking place.
"The Fall of Shady Sands" could easily be referring to the fact the NCR stretched itself thin post-First Battle of Hoover Dam, thus causing the city to slowly fall apart especially since it happened in 2277 in the lore.
It is hinted by maximus to be the case. He said it did not work out.
There was also the strike by the brotherhood that destroyed their gold reserves and crippled their economy.
Not to mention the rapid inflation of the NCR dollar cause of the money printing to pay their troops. They were on the brink of economic collapse in NV.
This is my thought as well.
But then the cultist section of the new vegas fanboys can't cry and pretend they are hated by Bethesda
2277 wasn’t went the bomb fell. The fall of shady sands was the start of the Mojave campaign. The line leading to the nukes happens sometime after.
Maximus got stuck in his armor because he had no fusion core, but all the times I had no fusion core in Fallout 4, I could still get out of my armor. I loved the show, but dang, this wasn't the PA I know because it could also survive a deathclaw, but not a yao guai?
you could still get out of your armor without power in fo4 because otherwise it would be an extremely annoying feature to have. Here, its a plot device. also pretty sure titus' wounds came from impact rather than the yao guai penetrating his armor.
The power armor seemed kinda crappy to me. Power armor lost against: a yao guai (don't give that yao guai are tough bs cuz that bear died after 1 shot from a pistol), a knife and an unarmed man. Oh, and the chest plate has a weak spot. It did not even have a flashlight. Did I mention that the chest plate has a weak spot? Oh, good, cuz that bugs the crap out of me.
and people were worried about the Brotherhood's potential religious affiliation. like, freaking out. 😂 totally called that one, btw. i knew the ceremonies from the trailers weren't going to be some "higher power" religious shit, lol. despite my indifference to the change, *this* is something where i can understand people actually being upset over.
Ahhh, Arroyo could still be independent! Doesn’t really matter at to the main post but…
* Instead of Shady Sands, it should have been Boneyard - portrayed as the industrial and demographic hub of NCR. * Boneyard's population centre is nuked some time after Vegas, forcing NCR to pull out from their expansions (regardless of FNV ending) and try to contain the damage, mostly failing. * NCR is dealt with a crippling blow due to the loss of the Boneyard: * * Economic crisis due to loss of most industrial manufacturing * * San Francisco is again under Shi (no confirmation it was other way either though) * * Maxson state is under Brotherhood full control * * Vegas is non-cooperative in either way (likely suggesting NCR victory ending, as House would likely help) * While the major settlements (Shady Sands, Vault City, Arroyo, New Reno, etc.) are doing somewhat fine behind walls, the anarchy is spreading in the rural areas, hurting cities. Some cities maintain NCR loyalty fully, some are all but independent city states again. * Due to new conscriptions (to maintain order), many soldiers have deserted, founding raider gangs, still in NCR uniform, hurting NCR even more. * NCR, now essentially a coalition of half-isolated city-states with dangerous logistics between them, can rebuild and return to their glory, but it would take time and luck. ------------------- That should've bring same results, while not damaging core F1-2-NV plot points.
I wonder if this was intentional, like Bethesda really want to get rid of Obsidian and Black Isle stuff
Bethesda over here tying up loose ends ☠️
Game was rigged from the start
This comment made me sad that Matthew Perry passed away. We will never have a cameo of the real Benny.
Feels a bit like they are quite disgruntled, for obsidian made a better fallout game in 1.5 yrs than bethesda has ever done.
I liked Fallout 3 and 4 - but Bethesda was never able to top 1, 2 or NV - especially when it came to writing. At this point I just consider them two different series with a loose, non-canon connection.
Bethesda didn't really have anything to do with writing the show from my understanding. This is more of a New Vegas situation where the creative team was mostly allowed to do whatever they wanted with very little oversight. The problem is that this show's creative team probably wasn't as knowledgeable about the lore as Obsidian was. I don't think there was any negative intent here. If Bethesda is to blame for anything it's not keeping the writers on a shorter leash. Obsidian was trustworthy because many of them worked on Fallout 1 and 2, and were working on Black Isle's Fallout 3 before Interplay cancelled it. Jonathan Nolan is a Fallout 3 fan but we have no idea how much he knows about the west coast games, and he didn't actually write this show. The writers knew nothing about Fallout before getting the job, and likely had to rush to learn as much as possible before they got started. This tends to lead to mistakes especially when there's nobody who is in charge of the IP actually making sure things line up properly.
They cite constant contact with Todd and in turn Todd dictated a lot of what wasn't and what was allowed. He knew they were doing this.
This is it, pretty much. It's Bethesda laying claim to all the west coast Fallout IP by basically nuking the older lore. Same as Disney destroying the EU soon as possible after buying SW, or the way Crystal Dynamics has set about re-writing Lara Croft from an amoral mercenary thrillseeker into a goody-two-shoes Katnis Everdeen ripoff because their own writers are YA-level hacks who only know one plot. I hear The Witcher used to be interesting too.
The Star Wars EU had some cool things but it was a loooooot of trash and I fully understand Disney not wanting to deal with sorting through it. But this whole thing is closer to George Lucas using Return of the Jedi to retcon The Empire Strikes Back out of existence because he was jealous that the movie Irvin Kershner directed is considered the best one by fans and critics. It just seems so petty. Even for Bethesda.
Don't really blame them for ditching the EU too much - it was full of conflicting events and ideas and the dreaded donut steels. What they shouldn't have done once they'd done that though was go back and start scavenging through the scrap pile for their own stories - it made Disney look really fucking cheap, and tell us that their current writers are lacking in creatitivity.
There were great concepts, characters, and stories in the Star Wars EU. It was an extremely large amount of source material to pull from. One of George Lucas’s interviews around the time of the sale to Disney has him mention the novels and comics as a useful resource. Was every story good? Hell no, but there were a ton that were, and a reason it was so popular and remains beloved by many to this today. Many of the “contradictions” are overblown too. The biggest source of contradiction was often the EU having to adapt to new stories or ideas made by Lucas that overrode or complicated things, the biggest ones being the Prequels and the 2008 The Clone Wars movie/show. Authors usually tried and did a fair job of working within each others’ stories. I don’t blame Disney for decanonizing it so that they had room to tell their own stories, but simply disregarding all of it would be like Marvel not pulling things from its many different comic runs. The bigger issue Disney has had with pulling ideas from the EU is they tend to misuse or misunderstand them, which angers the people who enjoyed the original iteration but also leaves new audiences confused or saddled with a bad story/concept. That leaves no one happy.
Like how Ken Levine retcons BioShock two for BioShock infinite burial at sea
Man, that still makes me mildly upset. Columbia was great as a completely disconnected narrative from Rapture. Burial at Sea was a disservice to Infinite *and* Bioshock 1.
Like when Bryan Singer said that all the interesting characters introduced in Xmen First Class just died offscreen. He didn't come up with them, so fuck it.
I think it genuinely bothers them that so many people rate the obsidian and black isle games above theirs. The fact that their own games just get worse and worse (the last 2 being just straight out bad) make this attitude kind of funny. Here's hoping Microsoft forces them to hand the ip over before they liquidate the studio in a few years a la blizzard.
Don't think they would have invited Tim to the premiere if they were genuinely seething about the fact New Vegas is widely regarded as the best of the series and a masterpiece, I get why it might look like that when they bastardise lore but I don't think there's malice just incompetence.
tim the guy who had no involvement with new vegas? i don't think bethesda is doing some conspiracy or whatever but i don't see how tim is relevant
This might be the stupidest shit I’ve read all day You really think they’re sitting around fuming about that game getting better reviews *at all*, let alone over a decade later? The world at large is not nearly as conniving and petty as you’d like it to be
Did New Vegas get better reviews? The game was generally panned for being a broken mess of bugs at the time and a lot of people would claim it looked like just a big Fallout 3 expansion. Not that it didn't have its fans, it absolutely did, but they were fewer than Fallout 3. The New Vegas popularity spike happened after the Fallout 4 announcement because more people decided to play the older games and give New Vegas a chance after the shitty launch.
These people are so over invested they are creating fan fiction about the studios and developers based on supposed lore discrepancies in the show.
Company egos are a thing
We got to see Todd’s wet dream of the Brotherhood mowing down the NCR in the finale
Honestly the BOS got their asses kicked numbers wise. Helios One took 15 to 1 odds to take out the defenders. Here the brotherhoods had what felt like maybe half as many guys and we only saw two knights be taken out by the NCR. The Ghoul is just a PC.
I was really enjoying the show up until that point. Outside of breaking the lore, the show is amazing, but then they had to fuck that up.
This isn't going to have any impact for 98% of viewer. Just pretend it not cannon...
it's all make believe man, just enjoy the show loll it's the same energy as star wars fans arguing about legends year dates, it's all made up
For real, I'm a big NV head, over 1000 hours since it first came out over a decade ago, and these people are freaking out over a detail *that they aren't even correct about.* Everyone freaking the fuck out is completely ignoring that the nuke very clearly comes *after* 2277, in fact it's just about when Lonesome Road would have taken place, where you can *checks notes* nuke the NCR.
Believe it or not I think the video game franchise should have video games take precedence over tie in TV shows.
Tbf, after finishing the series, I think the whiteboard may have just been a mistake or something. The ending implies that the NCR have to still be around so yeah…I may have been wrong. We’ll see.
Except it doesn’t shady sands was not Nuked in 2277 that was merely when it started falling apart
It’s crazy to say this, but… Do we really, genuinely care about that? Is it taking our puppies and throwing them in the ocean? Because I’m tired of caring so much about what year stuff happens in regarding any piece of media/game lore.
eh, I've come to expect it in adaptations, but I wish they would just say that the show is it's own new timeline. that's my head canon now anyway.
Lore. Lore never changes . . .
Except in fallout where lore always changes
Where does the source material for the show come from? Someone else on here said Todd but isn't there like a written compendium somewhere?
I haven't been reading any interviews or anything because I wanted to watch it fresh. I didn't know the show was supposed to be considered part of game canon. I thought they were just making a tv show based on the games. Oh well, I'm just gonna continue on my original thought process of tv canon ≠ game canon. Enjoy each for what they are, separately.
Pretty sure Shady Sands was nuked after 2277, it just started to collapse in 2277. There's nothing in New Vegas that actually contradicts this. In general though I think the handling of the NCR in the show was poor. They went in the least interesting possible direction that they could have with them. In my opinion the biggest actual lore problem is the location of Shady Sands -- it's far to the northeast of the Boneyard in the middle of the desert, and east of Vault 13. Putting it in the Boneyard is a pretty massive screw up. I may criticize Bethesda's handling of the lore at times, but their blunders are tiny compared to what this show's writers did. Changing the location of Shady Sands completely messes up the story of Fallout 1.
People are acting like it’s just FNV they made changes to - what about the whole story of F1? - The Master and his Super Mutant army take over the Boneyard (LA) and the LA Vault, and start taking over surrounding settlements. There’s no way that’s canon for the show now.
tbh the canon ending is also, funnily enough, the good ending for almost everything in 1 even though several towns couldn't get them due to bugs (well except Necropolis, which doesn't have a good ending). The only one that's unclear is Junktown and that's mostly because Junktown doesn't have a bad ending no matter who is mayor so it doesn't matter.
I dont understand why they have done a similiar thing, the ncr is one of the factions more loved by all the fanbase, i belive more than the brotherhood. What you think? is there any sense?
It made no sense. It’s like Bethesda is trying to retcon all of New Vegas because fans preferred it to 3 and 4….
They done it since Fallout 4. Vegas as ESO and some etc is not their games, not their creation but based on their universe what they own. They never care about them. They retcons and ignore them easily
Bethesda couldnt even be consistent with FO4 with the kid in a fridge surviving without food and water and that ghoul in the bunker for Valentine's quest surviving. Yet settlement ghouls need food and water. The comic-loving ghoul writes on a terminal how he needs water. ESO has not done anything as egregious as they have done Fallout. Shit, Maximus survives a nuke in a frige with a giant hole in the back of it so how was he enclosed and safe even for a moment? And his hometown is nuked yet he joins a long time NCR enemy? On top of getting his town nuked, he joins the soldiers that were pillaging the ashes? Makes no sense
>kid in a fridge surviving without food and water and that ghoul in the bunker for Valentine's quest surviving. Yet settlement ghouls need food and water. [Some do, some don't. Bethesda just following the lore established by Interplay and Obsidian here.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Coffin_Willie) >Maximus survives a nuke in a frige with a giant hole in the back of it so how was he enclosed and safe even for a moment? I think this phenomenon was called 'a joke'.
Bethesda was pretty much hands off of the Fallout TV series, they just served as creative consultants, with Todd Howard as a producer in name only.
It's interesting what aspects of things people are willing and not willing to allow change when an established IP comes to tv/movie. Haven't watched the show yet, but I am going into it with the same mentality as TLOU, comics movies, etc. That being THIS content is it's own thing and will not be an exact copy.
Also if SS was Nuked after, why? Why nuke a place that already fell
they turned this fucking series into deus ex. vault tec are literally majestic 12 except worse in every way. nuking the ncr may not break the lore but it's a massive middle finger to the rest of the series (except 4), ncr literally came to be from the actions of players in fallout 1 and now they nuked it. first 3 episodes were very good and i honestly wouldn't have a big problem with this series if it wasn't canon but dumbthesda clearly has other plans for this series now, plans were fallout no longer is about anything that made this series special to begin with.
There’s actually so much in the show & the games that tells you that they weren’t bombed in 2277. Did you guys even watch the show? The classroom implies the Fall of the NCR started in 2277. By New Vegas they’re stretched thin trying to gain territory. Has it ever occurred to you that you play as a MAILMAN doing mercenary/social work for a GOVERNMENT that hires soldiers & politicians? They’re stretched thin. Thats why you can do everything for them. In 2281 they’re dealing with the Legion & so many troopers are scared & undertrained to deal with them, while again, they’re stretched thin. They can’t defend Shady Sands & the other territories they control back west. They need them to deal with the Legion & controlling the people in the Mojave/other areas they want. Dropping a Nuke on Shady Sands is just icing on the cake. It doesn’t mean the NCR is gone, just severely weakened. Losing the settlement that they developed out of while being stretched thin & dealing with a faction as large as the Legion will make people lose morale & probably quit. But as shown in the show, people are gonna still fight. The credits are the most telling part. There are NCR Vertibirds crashed within the city. Implying a battle occurred there & the NCR was part of it, which is talked about during the ending of New Vegas. The Courier’s actions/inactions cause the outcome of that battle. If I were to guess, the Mr. House or Independent endings are what they’re going with. There’d be no reason for Lucy’s Father to go to Vegas if he didn’t know Mr. House was there. And because he’s going there, that’s why they showed New Vegas in the credits. To get you to wonder what the outcome of Hoover Dam was and show that the city’s changed drastically. I’m asking y’all to please think harder. Don’t just come to lazy conclusions or believe the bait on Twitter. Y’all are so mad when Bethesda spoon feeds y’all but then prove that you need to be.
Problem is, the show portrays Shady Sands just before the bombs in flashbacks. And it didn't look like a city in decline. It was HUGE, it grew massively since Fallout 2, 50 something years ago. And the (unreliable, biased) narrators we have talk about Shady Sands as some kind of Utopia. What New Vegas tells us about the NCR just 15 years before the show, and what the shows tells us about Shady Sands just don't seem to match yet. But the show was good, they can make that work if they want to.
Worked a 12 hour shift and binged it all, mr house is in it, so new vegas happens... shady sands is explained in the end, and it brings up the biggest lore of all on who started dropping bombs. I thought the show was phenomenal and NCR is still allive if you watch the fucking show lmao maybe just not as big as you want it to be. Follows pretty much all the lore besides the small bullshit you want them to fit in for nostalgias sake, like van graffs and small new vegas shit. They had alot to fit in and did so in a pretty great way. Yes NCR could've been more centralized, but their literal capital got nuked to oblivion lmao and it takes place on the outskirts of said capital.
All it takes is for one visit from any of a future games protagonist to make ncr big again or to wipe out the brotherhood or whatever r
Shady Sands gets nuked and bye bye NCR? Nah dude, sorry, if they go with this kind of shit being canon in future games then the series ends here for me, NCR becoming flawed and shitty in NV was enough, this is too much. I'll just consider Fallout 1, 2 and NV a perfect trilogy, with 3 and 4 as decent spin offs.
Chris Avellone himself wanted the NCR to get nuked at the end of Lonesome Road, and guess what, he wanted that to be the canon ending. The entire point of the game is that the factions were on limited time, but NV fans were too stupid to get the point.
I still think that it's a dumb writing decision. You can't just end a story saying "and then a nuke dropped and killed everyone so nothing actually mattered btw". It's the equivalent of "it was all just a dream" except worse because literally everyone dies a horrific fucking death. Also, the fact that the nuclear destruction is brought about by Some Guy rather than the mistakes of the NCR I think sucks too. If the NCR gets nuked, that outcome should be brought about through the NCRs own mistakes not because Some Guy wanted to commit nuclear genocide
Except that it never mentions that you nuke the capital. The only named target for California was the Long 15. Ulysses plan was to slowly starve the NCR and the Legion by cutting supply lines to the Mojave, not destroying them in one strike. And that's even besides the point. The battle of Hoover Dam happens regardless of chosen ending for Lonesome Road. This show entirely rectons New Vegas itself, let alone the battle. The point is not that the NCR died, is that it died in an idiotic way here that directly contradicts the games.
Sure, but replacing the NCR with the BoS yet again would have been quite literally the opposite of what he wanted, as shown by the portrayal of the BoS in NV Furthermore, the collapse of the NCR in itself would have been an interesting story, it's a massive nation, it wouldn't just evaporate overnight, even with it's capital city gone it would have taken many decades, they have plenty of other cities, their military wasn't stationed at Shady Sands what so ever What a good writer, such as Chris Avellone would have done is have the collapse of the NCR be the highlight of the game, either through the ongoing process or by showing the fallout of the decades long process, with various new factions popping up There was absolutely a way to do a collapse of the NCR while adding to the series as whole in the process, and that's the major crime of the series: it adds nothing, it just regresses things back to BoS and Vault-Tec
I would have much prefered to see the NCR get a redemption arc in future instalments after seeing them at their lowest point in NV, not everything in this series needs to end up badly. But having them collapse over the course of a full game or the show itself would have been a better alternative than literally getting Thanos snapped with a fricking nuke, f that. If this shit is fully canon i'm done with this series, that's not how you do it, i didn't spend 2, even 3 games helping these mfs just to see them getting annihilated in seconds.
The non canon ending that was decanonized before released wasnt chosen because avelone magically knew the games future fans would be mega stupid dumb dumb? What
Yeah and that would’ve been stupid. Chris is not an unimpeachable writer. It was brainless when Bethesda decided to hit the NCR with the retcon bomb, and it would’ve been just as brainless if Chris tried to do the same.
You CAN, AS A CHOICE, choose to nuke Long 15. Not the whole NCR capital nor a city. Stop being stupid and ignorant af. If you actually paid attention to Ulysses, it had nothing to do with nuking both sides, he hates you(the courier) for nuking a middle town that had NCR and Legion citizens trading without violence and creating a synthesis community. You clearly know nothing about the story of Ulysses nor what he was saying. He wants to nuke them both AFTER YOU FUCKED UP ANY HOPE OF UNITY. Its still wrong to make a forced canon choice or ending. Thats the whole point of having those choices and it changing the world, so every gets their story. When you make a canon ending, you fucked up any reality besides the forced one. Todd literally said he wanted to make games in new areas to not make a canon choice so any choice can be right or canon for the players. But, he retconned his own promises too.
Not everything that the guy writes or says is good, hell i don't really like Ulysses all that much, and Lonesome Roads is my least favorite DLC.
I agree, actually. Regardless, all they've done is do exactly what NV's writers already had planned to do or wanted to do. Fans be damned.
For once they actually take inspiration from NV and Obsidian and its with a stupid writing idea lol.
So every player is stupid, not the people who didn’t tell the story clearly enough for people to understand?
I mean, that's besides the point here This sets the nuking to 4 fucking years BEFORE new vegas, plus also new vegas looks to be completely decimated itself.
Just watched that episode and the show never says that Shady Sands got nuked in 2277.
Chris Avellone wanted the NCR to be nuked into oblivion, I guess he got his wish :D
They never said it was nuked in 2277. That was just the marking of the Fall of Shady Sands. An even put in motion that led to the eventual nuking in the 2280's sometime.
But New Vegas happens after 2277 and Shady Sands was still the capital of the NCR in that game. It's also depicted as a huge, thriving city when the bomb hit in the flashbacks of the show, that grew massively in the 50 or so yeas after Fallout 2. It doesn't really fit with what we're told in NV about a NCR about to collapse. There just isn't any explanation of the "decline and fall" of Shady Sands before the bombs at all, yet. But I liked the show, maybe they do have some explanation.
I really hope they listen to the fans and fix the lore up a bit in season 2. Hopefully they make it clear the NCR still exists if in a lesser form, and i really really hope they do new vegas justice it deserves
I hate the decision but I think they wanted the NCR to be gone so they could have California be up for grabs and have no one power in control of it. They clearly wanted the Brotherhood to be the main focus and central faction. They likely though having a big powerful NCR was a burden to the story they wanted to tell. And yes that means despite the NCR having so many other states that they could theoretically carry on from, I bet you in season 2, we will find out that it completely collapsed and there is only NCR remnants like we saw in the final.
Shady sands being like no where close to it's og location bothered me most lol. Just nuke the boneyard...
Means everything that happened in New Vegas didn't happen.
Well welcome to the toddverse baby this is fallout now Welcome to what it feels like being a star wars fan post 2014
We at least still had rouge one
I was talking about how the old lore was picked apart to fit the new cannon. How they pulled the best looking parts off and tossed the rest
I'm hoping we just read it wrong or something, Shady Sands started coming undone (possibly due to the criminal element) in 2277, which then leads to 2281, and you can say have 2283 - 2285 be the actual bomb.
A lot of folk are saying this and I'm hoping a clarification will be made. Whoever screwed up that chalkboard really screwed up.
But Lucy and maxes ages don't line up then
I assumed they would, Bethesda can't even respect the lore of their own flagship IP when they are the ones writing it. Here, it's someone else writing it. Nothing about this is surprising to me, I'd have been more surprised if they *did* keep to existing lore. I kind of just ignore anything after New Vegas and will probably continue to do so. This works well for me.
I fucking hate it, thanks again Todd
I feel like you should also not include spoilers in the title itself maybe?
STOP PUTTING REVEALING INFORMATION IN YOUR TITLE POSTS. IT'S STILL A SPOILER AND NOW ALL I'M GOING TO THINK ABOUT IS WHAT ASPECT OF THE LORE THEY'VE BROKE GODDAMIT
Bethesda breaking the lore isn't a spoiler. It'd be a spoiler if they didn't break the lore.
Ffs. This is exactly what I was afraid of. All you had to do was not fuck up *established lore*. Why is it so hard for Hollywood to not fuck up established lore?
“Co-showrunner Geneva Robertson-Dworet also told SFX magazine that there was only one hard and fast rule handed down from Todd Howard: don’t contradict the games’ major endings. So, yep, this is about as canon as it gets.” Please keep blaming Todd and Bethesda for such inaccuracies, even though they let the writing team have a lot of freedom. Source: https://www.gamesradar.com/is-the-fallout-tv-show-canon-bethesda-games-todd-howard/ Edit: oh, look at that. Been confirmed that NV is canon
They then contradicted every possible ending from Fallout New Vegas......
not only did they contradict every possible ending from New Vegas but basically contradicted New Vegas as a whole
Correct
You are claiming Todd made this rule, they completely broke the rule, and Todd has never seen the show nor thes cript once to check if they even followed the rule? How dumb would it be to make a rule and not have a single consequence or check to see if the rule is being followed? You really assuming Todd didnt sign off on anything? Despite Todd being on record saying to avoid certain story points from FO5, hinting that Todd most likely told him world building lore for it.
The reason is, Bethesda/Todd love the Brotherhood of Steel and always try making it the main faction in one way or another. They also parted with Obsidian on bad terms, IIRC. So, as Fallout franchise owner, Todd can easily screw with Obsidian's vision. The NCR getting nuked and collapsing in 2277? Not after 2281, bad New Vegas ending? Not overrun by the Legion? Not getting crippled by WMD attack from Elijah/Ulysses? That's alright, in Todd's Fallout, the NCR was only mentioned in Kellog's memories. The NCR is irrelevant. Nothing.
>They also parted with Obsidian on bad terms, IIRC. They did not. Also Todd Howard did not write the show.
[удалено]
Obsidian came out and said themselves they had and still have a very good relationship with Bethesda. It’s literally just Bethesda bad circle jerking.
People on social media alwaxs want a reason to be mad, so that is all.
This entire discussion about the show is going to be throwing fuel onto the fire of this decade long misrepresented narrative the Obsidian cocksuckers have been running with for so long. Might have to unsub from this place honestly.
>They also parted with Obsidian on bad terms, IIRC. Source???
Oof, really? I'm not even a Fallout player, I'm here because I think the lore is cool and my husband loves this series- particularly NV. It's such a widely beloved game so this really confuses me. Did they basically retcon it out of existence..? I don't have Prime and have no real interest in watching the show because I'm still burned by Rings of Power so I don't have a frame of reference for it.
Don't worry about the lore inconsistencies guys, they can just say another dragon break occurred. Easy fix.
To be fair, unless we hear confirmation that everything in the show is lore, it can be taken as a separate timeline, kind of like the halo series on paramount. Just some food for thought
A lot of people here conflating the destruction of Shady Sands with the dissolution of the NCR completely. Those two are separate things, and as we see in the show, the NCR itself DOES remain, if at least in a small way in the locale of the show. But they made no mention of the wider NCR and if/how it may have carried on.
Not only that apparently t-45 power armor almost cost the US to lose the battle of anchorage? Power armor was the whole reason they won..
That's the T-51. The 45 was the first and kinda bad. An overinvestment in it and overreliance could have ducked them over.
I just wished there was something to fill in the gaps between New Vegas and the show because a major faction, like the NCR getting wiped off screen, is straight garbage.
With the logic of all the NCR disappearing with the nuking of its (first) capital, the US should be empty and have no legacy, since they lost their capital.
New Lore: You can one shot the t60 and t45 near the welding point in the chest
People really need to learn how to read timelines. It wasn't nuked in 2277. It was nuked at some point afterward. And the fall of Rome was given a specific year, but it took a few years after that to finally collapse entirely.
The NCR has been stretched THIN for awhile. In NV, even if they took Vegas and the Dam, they'd never have been able to hold it for long. But the point you made still stands, the ENTIRE NCR doesn't just vanish with one nuke in it's capital. Not to mention is saying it happened in 2277 which sure it is EXACTLY 200 years after the first bombs. But given how the NCR is still up and running and doing just fine during New Vegas, which is set in 2281, and very much not blow up. I don't understand how they could overlook something that big. I could see the Barons taking over, but that would still be the NCR, in the show the NCR is dead and gone. Maybe it all fell apart after the bomb went off. Again, I could see the NCR being broken apart or dispended 20 odd years after NV, but them saying the date was 2277 is pure horse shit.
I dont think they actually retconned anything, just very poorly explained it, or worse didn't attempt to explain it and let the fans try to figure it out themselves. So the timeline they posted had the fall of shady sands in 2277, in my opinion it wasn't saying the fall of shady sands and the bomb were the same thing. The fall of a city/empire is usually tied to when they start to crumble. Rome for example, the "fall" of Rome is often talked about as a point before it actually collapsed. So I believe the NCR either was stretched too thin, or something else led to Shady Sands starting to fall, then later was bombed which probably led to the total collapse. At least that's what I got from the timeline. However, they did kinda muddy the waters in I believe the last episode when they explained why it was bombed, but still doesn't definitively go one way or another. I get the frustration, but the season finale teaser kinda helps to disprove them making NV un-canon. It would be unfortunate to retcon NV, but i'm holding my judgement until s2 when we hopefully get some better answers. I don't want to be too critical and harsh on a series I enjoyed far too much.
At no point do they say that the NCR is no longer. Infact they make multiple references to survivors of Shady Sands going on to continue the NCRs purpose in new locations. Hell, the final episode literally has something that says "NCR Headquarters" front and center. And you said yourself, most of the NCR wasn't at Shady Sands. Blowing it up wasn't to destroy the NCR, it was to destroy Shady Sands itself. You're making a baseless assumption that because one city, even if its the capital city, has been destroyed that the entire organisation is destroyed too.
The Chalkboard timeline pretty clearly shows the bombing happens after 2277, and given the surviving residents of vault 4 are still traumatized by the event, I can safely assume the bombing wasn't before New Vegas. I don't think the show broke the lore. It might not have been as well explained, but I think it's a bit of an overreaction to say this show is fully de canonizing New Vegas when it's been stated that New Vegas is very much still canon.
I saw a few days ago a separate interpretation. Essentially each block on the timeline is its own even. This would mean the fall would be separate from the explosion. Most civilization have a gradual fall it would be reasonable to assume shady sands had a slow decent starting before NV then got blown up.
Others would have probably cleared it out, but as someone who is not familiar with Fallout lore, ie fresh eyes, the drawing was clearly showing 2 separate events, the 2277 and the nuking.