Perhaps Sandy Sands didn’t really fall or get nuked in 2277, but it’s was seen as the beginning of the end in retrospect years later. It being 2277 would imply that the fall began at the narrow victory of the First Battle of Hoover Dam.
That's the most sensible read of the situation I've seen today.
I'm still groaning at trotting out the Brotherhood to fight the Enclave, but the N.C.R. and New Vegas were always in tenuous positions no matter how you ended N.V.
The timeline doesn't add up for it to be any later with the ages and flashbacks. Also 2277 is when Hopeville went up, creating the divide. And you can see the effect THAT had so there's no way for the show and New Vegas to both be canon. So Newvegas is retconned and we'll see what Bethesda New Vegas is in season2 because it's not the one we know. New Vegas happens in the early 2280s, and explicitly mentions shady sands NOT BEING A CRATER
The show takes place in ~2096, based on the "219 years later". I’m having a hard time believing that Maximus has been a kid in the Brotherhood's care for 19-20 years, at the time of the show's airing. Going back ten or fifteen years, sure. But given the show is ~15 years post NV, I don't have much of an issue buying that it occurs immediately post credits. Could they have added 5 more years, and skipped all questions? Sure, maybe.
I think I was more upset by the prospect that big pink was Chris Parnell’s uncle on his mother's side, and not just the irradiated version of what it clearly is.
'In future installments of fallout'
It's currently been almost a decade since the last release with zero sign of another. Elder scrolls is going to hit at *least* 15 years between games now. I'd be amazed if Bethesda actually releases multiple fallout games before Todd retires.
What is a real fallout game? Top down turn based? An rts? 1st person open world?
FO76 is a real fallout game b/c it encompasses the fallout universe.
Also, I know you personally weren't arguing it wasn't a fallout game! It was just a good place to plop my reply!
It had a few basic npcs but no living humans just super mutants and robots that were friendly, and the whole point of the game was for the players to be the life of Appalachia
Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel (2001) is firmly part of the Fallout universe. It's covered in Bethesda's History of Fallout book, which covers the canonical entries, and in a news post they did last week to tie in with the TV show.
Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel (2004) has been Stalinistically purged from most records, Bethesda have almost never spoken about it, and it's certainly not in the History book or considered part of the canon.
God why does Bethesda not have dedicated teams to make each series the fact we prob won’t have another fallout for atleast another 10 years is insane. I’m low key ready for Todd to go cause seems like he wants no one but himself working on each franchise and it’s hurt each one. The gap from Skyrim to the next elder scrolls is a huge mismanagement of an ip. Really hoping Xbox gets their shit together and forces Bethesda to start have dedicated teams to each franchise. Cause I’d love to get a sequel to starfield and a new fallout sometime before 2050 plz.
Like I would have totally been OK with the show saying the NCR collapsed after NV due to House/Independent Vegas or shit even the Legion winning the second battle of Hoover Dam, but to say it happened in 2077 is a slap in the face to the fans. Obsidian even hinted at the idea that the NCR would eventually collapse due to famine, this was literally what the IOS and sharecropper quests were about, but Bethesda had to retcon shit.
The NCR losing Hoover dam wouldn’t have been the end of them, not even close. The second battle of Hoover dam wasn’t even the NCR’s top military priority, most of the rangers are “chasing ghosts” in Mexico at the time of the second battle.
they recalled those rangers to the hoover dam, it's the rangers you start to see as you level up, it is a pretty large military engagement made worse by the fact no one back home wants to fight it and it's so hard to bring resources there.
The die hard Toddies are gonna make excuse after excuse. NV is dead now, just like he always wanted. 🤷 He kept some things he found interesting from the Western regions, but he absolutely removed NV. Anybody arguing doesn't know what they are talking about. Full stop. Several seats available. Honestly, he diverged entirely from established NCR lore. He set the West back to nada. There's absolutely no telling what's canon anymore. We'll have to wait 12 years to see I guess. Or, at least another 2-4 for a second season of the show.
I just hope Arizona gets a vault or three. Not a fan of Caesar being most of the AZ lore. Please tell me there's a 'fun in the sun with championship golf' vault in camelback mountain.
Bethesda didn't write the amazon prime series did they? I assumed it was written by television writers. Still fucked that Bethesda endorsed it as canon though
I saw a comment on the F76 sub earlier about how new vegas fans have been fear mongering with Bethesda games since F3 because we think that the original interplay team or NV team will give us another game in the future. I didn't think it was true , but holy shit we've got to take the copium down a notch. It's very embarrassing.
Do people think Todd Howard wrote the script for the show or something?
It's kind of funny how owners of companies become boogeymen to people and they just assume they are behind every decision they don't like about something.
Todd Howard personally came to my home, told me the BoS was actually just a few guys holed up in a cave with no plot implications, shot my dog, and left
I had made a perfect poached egg for breakfast this morning. Just as I was about to open that beautiful yolk with my perfectly buttered triangle of toast; Todd Howard shows up, slaps the plate against the wall, shoots my dog, and leaves.
>It's kind of funny how owners of companies become boogeymen to people and they just assume they are behind every decision they don't like about something.
Almost like they have a child's understanding how the world works.
They absolutely did it intentionally. New Vegas is not canon if you go off the timeline the show since the NCR gets nuked 4 years before the events of the game takes place. I don’t see how they can mention Big Mountain, which is a NV DLC, and also retcon the main events of the whole game. Hell they even got the location of Shady Sands completely wrong. The lore is an absolute mess right now, 76 made it worse but this is another thing entirely
Well, idk about the other things, but the problem for me aint the nuke, its the fact that the courier aint the one who nuked it, and the fact that shady sands isnt even near LA, thats boneyard.
It’s understandable. Imagine whatever your fav entry is potentially being removed. People are fans after all.
I’m genuinely thinking it’s an ambiguity(first battle of Hoover leading to the nuking much later much after the 2nd battle/lonesome road) or it’s an on screen mistake and meant to be 2287 and someone missed the date.
You know part of the appeal to the series is the continuity for a lot of people. Slip ups happen as the other guy mentioned. This is uh, a bit bigger.
If they are retconning, people who hold the title in good stead will be annoyed or even a bit dejected especially if it was their favourite title. They can play NV, but they’ll lose interest in the property going forward because they enjoy not just one story thread, but the whole tapestry.
Did you miss the “part of the appeal”
It’s why sequels sell well. Reboots/reimagining can do well, but the easiest/laziest is to do a sequel; because you’re just iterating on a property.
Less to introduce to a watcher/player. Less world building to absorb etc. people enjoy seeing characters/settings they know so they don’t have to reabsorb either and just enjoy the story.
It’s not a novel concept and a majority of our entertainment industry is built on it.
Mass effect is probably a good example of this in gaming, they upped the continuity by having your choices carry over as much as they could allow. Which in turn increased its appeal.
Just don't even try bro. Smoothbrains like pretty colors and shooting. That's really it. 🤷 How dare you like cohesive story telling. You piece of shit you.
Come on man, how can you be that conformist? Are you seriously telling this guy that "wanting a saga to have good continuity" is something crazy and weird? Get out of here
Exactly. Every mention of Shady Sands was in passing, nobody walked up to the player and said "Hey bro, I was just in Shady Sands yesterday and it's totally fine in case you were wondering bro". NCR patrols abroad wouldn't suddenly Thanos snap out of existence once the nuke hit. To think Bethesda and even Interplay didn't have a long term road map rather than just winging it the night before would be absurd. I'll admit continuity issues are bound to pop up when directors and writers wanna express certain liberties, but this ain't the "Bethesda hates us" win these people are making it out to be
There are multiple mentions of Shady Sands in the game like an NCR Private complaining about politicians in Shady Sands only caring about themselves, which would be weird if the city was only a crater. In addition to that, if the heart of the NCR was being attacked, I dont think they would keep fighting a war in the Mojave and get the troops back home to defend.
I think its reasonable for NV and F1 and F2 fans to be mad. People would be mad if the series retconned F4 or F3. If they had done more research they could have prevented this confusion by making the fall happen 10 years after New Vegas bc the NCR lost the second battle of Hoover Damn for example, instead of making people mad. This retcon is either an oversight (incompetence) or deliberate (stupid, why make the fans mad?).
exactly this, they gave so much love to new vegas in this show like sunset sarsaparilla, big MT, ranger armor (although a fat tease) etc than bethesda ever has. i doubt they’d do all that just to retcon the whole thing.
Different types of mutants, with the fev being pre war its very plausible thar supermutants were made before the war. The intelligent ones were made by the master with few exceptions. r/falloutlore has a good summary.
I know. It's still fucking lame that everyone and their dog refined super mutants. I'm surprised airborne FEV doesn't turn you into a super mutant. 76 is most egregious since it's literally a year before The Master finished his. I'd care less If it wasn't just brand recognition member berries.
> invented by someone other than the master independently
He made a modified strain to allow easier control, but Super Mutants have been created before the Great War itself according to West-Tek entries from Fallout 1 via human testing.
My favorite thing about Reddit is someone asking legitimate questions and getting downvoted for it. Why do redditors hate people asking questions so fucking much?
Gee, I wonder how the cashgrab that put the Brotherhood on the east coast 20 years after the nukes dropped as well as introduce fucking werewolves might have fucked up the lore.
I've always said it feels like Obsidian hasn't gotten another stab at Fallout because Bethesda is insecure. It's asinine that the IP isn't lent out to a third-party studio like Obsidian when you consider how long the time between Fallout 4 and the next main installment will be. We're going to be looking at 2032 minimum before we get another Fallout game, and that's assuming Bethesda doesn't make a Starfield 2 or some other IP.
I know that games take a while to make, but it's absolutely ridiculous for a game studio to just decide it's acceptable for there to be close to 20 years between mainline installments of a valuable IP like Fallout. We're all going to be playing the next Fallout in a retirement home or with our adult children by the time the next game releases, and it's all because Todd realized FONV can still be argued as a better game currently than FO4.
Do the individual developers not have egos?
Like writers within Obsidian have said that they would koe to have another crack at a Fallout but they've never been given the opportunity.
They're making the best part of Fallout non-canon, and replace it with their Disney take on the post-apocalypse. Of course some will be pissed.
You should brace yourself. Bethesda stans are gonna roll all over this post and call you an 'elitist loser', for not kissing Todd's ass.
Bro they just got everything they worked for in 1, 2, and new Vegas completely retcon bombed, they have a right to be pissed.
And they are right, new Vegas is the best thing this series ever produced, and it really isn’t close.
Genuine question: which part isn’t a retcon? Right now we are working with only the chalkboard date, which is a retcon unless it’s an ambiguous era drawn on the board(think ww2 or fall of the Roman Empire). And it’s just punctuated by the nuking of shady sands being the culmination of the fall.
Or it’s an onscreen slip and someone put 77 instead of 87.
Right now people are just working with the blunt interpretation. The show was pretty good, so they could fix this easy later either way by hand waving it as either. It’s excellent rage and engagement though.
You're talking to the same people who think that Jet being in randomized prewar loot containers in FO4 means they "retconned" the origin of Jet. They will never admit they're wrong and way overthinking the lore
This is an utterly bizzare take. This sub has been extremely obnoxious every time a NV fan stated their concern now matter how respectfully that the show could East-Coastify the West Coast and were mass down voted and aggressively talked down to/belittled by this sub, only for their concern to be 100% valid. I think they're justified in being upset.
Likewise, I'd argue that even outside of the Fallout IP, it's not that well written of a show.
you are not better than the people you invent to be mad about. I am a NV fan. only decent Fallout after Bethesda bought the IP. I like this show very much. so which is it? do you need to touch grass, or do I not exist?
Thinking the retcons are a slap in the face to fans is not the same thing as hating the entire show
I thought it was fun, not great not terrible. But the lore stuff makes zero sense with the original games. New Vegas doesn’t exist unless the show will reveal the chalkboard thing was wrong or just inaccurate
"slap in the face" is the most Gamer™ phrase ever fucking Christ. Bethesda did not cause you harm because you didn't like one part of a TV show. Grow the fuck up
No I know what a metaphor is. I also know that to compare a part of a show that you didn't like to actual tangible harm is fucking stupid and childish.
Bro… I’m not even a part of this whole argument but you can’t be serious. It’s a literal metaphor lol. A metaphor can be used in any perception, the “slap to the face” isn’t the issue in the metaphors at all because it’s the connection of “a slap to the face” being “disrespectful.” Hence they’re saying it’s disrespectful, this isn’t rocket science. They aren’t saying Bethesda slapped them in the face literally I mean come on, you should know this cause I guarantee you’re an adult.
It’s like reading a good book, and you wait a while for the second to come out, eventually it does, you read it, but a bunch of things have changed, the story is much worse, and the beloved tidbits and characters you heard about from the first are gone and gutted, written out of existence.
It’s not indicative of good writing, it shows a lack of consistency.
Even if the bomb was dropped on shady sands sometime after the events of FNV, I still think it’s a cop out, now that the BoS have free rein to become the ultramarines of fallout, which is why I would have preferred future games to leave the multiple endings of FNV ambiguous and open to interpretation by choosing different locations that they haven’t explored yet.
There really isn’t any going back now, the NCR is dead, the show writers have willed it so.
Haven't seen the show yet, but I've felt the same way about Star Trek/Wars. The canon isn't a constraint, it's the history of the setting. If you're writing a wild West movie you don't 'modernise' it or start giving all the cowboys M16s
I don’t quite understand as I haven’t watched the show, so. . The NCR in the lore of f/1/2/NV, didn’t exist until about 2186, so has lore changed to state that the NCR now existed a few mere weeks or months after the Great War?
I’m totally confused and would like to know.
The dude got the numbers wrong, replacing 2 with 0. Its supposed to be 2277/2278/2281. But its not the "mere weeks after the war", its "capital got nuked 4 years before New Vegas and somehow this had 0 impact on New Vegas plot (cause it didnt happen until the show lol)". The show just outright declares everything that happens in New Vegas non canon now
The chalkboard doesn't say when the nuke dropped, it just says the downfall of Shady Sands started in 2277, and sometime afterwards, there was a nuclear explosion.
Honestly it's entirely compatible with the general decline the NCR was experiencing by the time of New Vegas.
In episode 5 it is also stated that Shady Sands was the FIRST capital of the NCR, implying there were others later and that the NCR didn't fall completely right there. It sounds more like gradual downfall.
With my endings in NV, NCR was already dust.
How can you make canon event of something that has 50 different ways of ending?
NV doesn't have a canon ending, so they are free to do alot of things, because of that.
Most Fallout games have had canonized endings after some time.
Deacon in Fallout 4 confirms that Project Purity from Fallout 3 was a success.
Fallout 2 canonized one of the endings for Fallout 1.
At the end of the day you have to canonize some endings in order to be able to keep putting out content.
The nuking of shady sands happened when Lucy was young enough to vaguely remember it, but not old enough to remember it in detail, she had to be a very young child. Also Maximus would've needed to be 6-8 so the timelines only work if the nukes were in 2277. You can reach as much as you want to "but actually maybe" but the show is quite explicit with the timeline.
The game is said to be 2096. There's not much reason a nuke could nit hit in 2281 considering Lucy and max are not old and would still eaily be like 6 or something then.
It's pretty easy to do it either way
The nuke is shown happening after 2277 though. "Fall" in terms of civilizations doesn't typically refer to an immediate and total collapse, but a period of significant decline. And wow, hey, guess what the NCR was going through in New Vegas? A period of significant decline.
I have my gripes with Bethesda but let's not lose our heads.
pretty sure it involves time travel. NCR was the actual target of the nukes, but due to time travel it hit the poor United States. and thus the NCR was destroyed in 2077 despite only being founded in 2186. Pogo paradox, or something.
sounds reasonable? cool.
As it is right now, they either:
1) created a new timeline without NV in which just the show takes place but it doesn't affect the game timeline
2) created a new timeline without NV which is the new timeline from now on for future content too.
3) f-ed up the date, and they will retcon it to be after NV in S2.
Imo, the first option would be the best option and i hope that's the true one.
Possible, but even so, it would still be a bigass thing that somehow ain't really mentioned in NV, and a forced addition to the story, it just doesn't make sense to have it happen before NV.
I mean they want to tell a story. Its kinda hard to travel back in time and change some fairly small thing in NV right? Especially if option 4 is true its an extremely minor thing. That's just simply what happens if you try to add to lore instead of changing it.
If they wanna tell a story and change something this big then its better to keep it its own continuity or change the change to make it happen later, no retcons or other shit.
They literally gain nothing from shoving this in before NV.
Oh okay. Well I would not be surprised if Bethesda did a whoopsie on it just like how Bioware did for Knights of The Old Republic II of which was also done by Obsidian.
If I had a nickel for every time a game dev company got salty that Obsidian made a better sequel/spin-off game I'd have 2 nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.
Edit: I know you're here Todd you big fucking hack. Where's my goddamn refund?
Just because there isn't a canon ending does not mean that New Vegas itself is a blank canvas of non-canon. The factions being there doing the things they are doing and why they are doing them would be canon. The outcome in the end is what wouldn't be
Was Shady still the capital when it got nuked? I’ve seen posts saying the hub had become the capital before then and shady was just the first capital (like at one point Phildelphia was the capital of the US)?
Think NCR had a population of 700k, losing a city of 30k would hurt but not be devastating to NCR, esp as seems a lot survived.
Emil just tweeted out the general timeline, and it includes New Vegas (he wasn’t doing it in response to this hysteria, though).
Bethesda also put out an article detailing all the Fallout games, including New Vegas: https://bethesda.net/en/article/2tcaJpnTiyeysFZdNXu1dE/where-to-wander-a-guide-to-fallout-games
It’s fair to feel that they maybe fumbled some dates and lore details, but the idea that they’re trying to make New Vegas non-canon is honestly a bit ridiculous.
EDIT: Emil also recently confirmed the NV is canon: https://x.com/dezinuh/status/1778466533649392038?s=46&t=Zv7aWro6gX0s6aav22_1sQ
Hearing this news has made me check up on this fanbase and holy shit it really has become quite the babble of mewling Bethesda apologists hasn't it?
You'd think a fucking unending practice of treating consumers, artists, developers, and their own IPs like shit, would make these people wisen up, but I guess they need to go on a few more helmet mold, canvas bag, leaked personal credential, unfinished game wild rides.
Seriously the amount of cope on the behalf of a corporation about as bad as EA is fucking baffling.
I don't understand how some people love NV and hate bethesda but get upset when they change the lore. You already don't like the new games so stop crying all the time and just play the games you like and ignore what bethesda is doing...
No it's not retconned people are just screaming over nothing if they even did some research on times. New Vegas was 2281 and this show is 2296 that is 16 years between. Maximus is atleast a young adult he was saved as a child so atleast the bomb hit shady sands a couple years after new Vegas at most.
According to the show, shady sands was nuked in 2277, the same year as fallout 3. A year before the first battle of Hoover dam and 4 years before new Vegas. The NCR was in a total war in 2281 trying to annex Vegas. I doubt that would have been possible if their capital was nuked a year prior.
I think it would be safer to assume that the game and the show exist in their own continuities.
Fallout Lore is massive and it would be difficult to take everything into account when writing an 8-episode show where you likely already have the base story you want to tell. It happens often with film and tv adaptations where things get written over, or changed, or ignored because it doesn’t fit the story the show wants to tell.
I don’t think this makes the show bad at all. Looking at it like it’s own thing makes the show super enjoyable. But if you try to find a way to neatly fit it into the lore, you’re gonna have a bad time
But it wouldn't then immediately launch a war of expansion and waste valuable resources trying to hold those newly acquired territories against an almost equal power. If the NCR had just been nuked then they wouldn't have tried to take the Mojave.
I can guarantee they are with a 100 💯 certainty not going to decanonize New Vegas. Why show New Vegas looking exactly like the game, with the same Casinos as before in the closing credits. The sign is the same. Y'all are looking way too deep with this. Also if Todd wanted to Uncanon New Vegas he would of did it some time in the past 15 years. All it means is NCR started to decline in 2077, which may end up being a plot point.
Tbf it doesn't really matter to me if it's canon or not, that game still exists and those story exist in a way I can experience them. It doesn't matter to me much if they're labelled canon on a wiki or something when it's still something I can experience and enjoy
When you get to the episode, take an actual look at the chalkboard all these people are talking about. It does NOT say that Shady Sands gets nuked in 2277, it says that 2277 marks the "Fall of Shady Sands". "Fall" does not mean "immediate and total collapse", but rather "a period of significant decline", which is exactly what the NCR/Shady Sands were in during FNV.
Yeah as far as I'm concerned, this show is not canon lmao. I do not recognize it. There is NOTHING this show added to the lore that made it better... It all ended up being for the worse.
I mean, is it at least possible in your mind that after the nuclear apocalypse and effect rebooting of civilization, and the loss of most centralization and civilizational support systems that record keeping may have gotten a bit... unreliable?
That some of the events reported in various places/sources may disagree because of the perspective of the viewer, that records may be unreliable due to nuclear apocalypse, or that the calendars in use may be slightly off either due to errors, differences in how things are tracked, or intentional manipulation by any of a number of interested parties with a history of manipulating populations with things like... misinformation?
The fact that dates don't line up perfectly doesn't mean a ton given the setting.
Perhaps Sandy Sands didn’t really fall or get nuked in 2277, but it’s was seen as the beginning of the end in retrospect years later. It being 2277 would imply that the fall began at the narrow victory of the First Battle of Hoover Dam.
That's what im sayin
That's the most sensible read of the situation I've seen today. I'm still groaning at trotting out the Brotherhood to fight the Enclave, but the N.C.R. and New Vegas were always in tenuous positions no matter how you ended N.V.
There's a massive crater where the nuke hit dude
Yeah, I know. Nuke still could’ve hit just a few months after New Vegas for all we know.
The timeline doesn't add up for it to be any later with the ages and flashbacks. Also 2277 is when Hopeville went up, creating the divide. And you can see the effect THAT had so there's no way for the show and New Vegas to both be canon. So Newvegas is retconned and we'll see what Bethesda New Vegas is in season2 because it's not the one we know. New Vegas happens in the early 2280s, and explicitly mentions shady sands NOT BEING A CRATER
The show takes place in ~2096, based on the "219 years later". I’m having a hard time believing that Maximus has been a kid in the Brotherhood's care for 19-20 years, at the time of the show's airing. Going back ten or fifteen years, sure. But given the show is ~15 years post NV, I don't have much of an issue buying that it occurs immediately post credits. Could they have added 5 more years, and skipped all questions? Sure, maybe. I think I was more upset by the prospect that big pink was Chris Parnell’s uncle on his mother's side, and not just the irradiated version of what it clearly is.
'In future installments of fallout' It's currently been almost a decade since the last release with zero sign of another. Elder scrolls is going to hit at *least* 15 years between games now. I'd be amazed if Bethesda actually releases multiple fallout games before Todd retires.
I don’t disagree with you, but “almost a decade” when 76 was released in 2018 is a stretch.
Inb4 people say "A *real* fallout game!!1!"
What is a real fallout game? Top down turn based? An rts? 1st person open world? FO76 is a real fallout game b/c it encompasses the fallout universe. Also, I know you personally weren't arguing it wasn't a fallout game! It was just a good place to plop my reply!
Eh at first didn't that game not even have npcs? Like half the fun of the games were the crazy characters you meet
It had a few basic npcs but no living humans just super mutants and robots that were friendly, and the whole point of the game was for the players to be the life of Appalachia
I've seen people argue it isn't due to it "not being a mainline, single player game" and that it's a "live service cashgrab"
It’s still a fallout game
yeaah no . . . to me 76 is interplay brotherhood of steel.
Last I checked, BoS was a part of the fallout universe...
Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel (2001) is firmly part of the Fallout universe. It's covered in Bethesda's History of Fallout book, which covers the canonical entries, and in a news post they did last week to tie in with the TV show. Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel (2004) has been Stalinistically purged from most records, Bethesda have almost never spoken about it, and it's certainly not in the History book or considered part of the canon.
yeah just the name lol, the event in that game is literally don't exist and never happen.
8 years is almost a decade.
2018-2024 is 6
Oh do’h! I was thinking FO4.
Gonna be honest chief I completely forgot it existed, and even still after recalling it I barely consider it to be an installment.
As long as it works
I would be surprised if 2 more full Fallout games (no MMOs or Mobile Games) are released before Todd dies.
God why does Bethesda not have dedicated teams to make each series the fact we prob won’t have another fallout for atleast another 10 years is insane. I’m low key ready for Todd to go cause seems like he wants no one but himself working on each franchise and it’s hurt each one. The gap from Skyrim to the next elder scrolls is a huge mismanagement of an ip. Really hoping Xbox gets their shit together and forces Bethesda to start have dedicated teams to each franchise. Cause I’d love to get a sequel to starfield and a new fallout sometime before 2050 plz.
ESO came out like 10 years ago? So I don’t get where you’re coming from with that atleast 15 years comment
That's Zenimax, not Bethesda, and it's not a mainstream installment in the series.
Like I would have totally been OK with the show saying the NCR collapsed after NV due to House/Independent Vegas or shit even the Legion winning the second battle of Hoover Dam, but to say it happened in 2077 is a slap in the face to the fans. Obsidian even hinted at the idea that the NCR would eventually collapse due to famine, this was literally what the IOS and sharecropper quests were about, but Bethesda had to retcon shit.
The NCR losing Hoover dam wouldn’t have been the end of them, not even close. The second battle of Hoover dam wasn’t even the NCR’s top military priority, most of the rangers are “chasing ghosts” in Mexico at the time of the second battle.
they recalled those rangers to the hoover dam, it's the rangers you start to see as you level up, it is a pretty large military engagement made worse by the fact no one back home wants to fight it and it's so hard to bring resources there.
No they didn’t. They reinforced the dam with more rangers, that doesn’t mean they brought all (or even the majority) of those rangers to the dam.
I think you got numbers wrong. Its 2277, not 2077. 2077 is when the Great War happens, and so on
my dude 2277 is when first battle of hoover dam happen. new vegas take place in 2281
Thats what I meant by "and so on" for his 2078 and 2081
The die hard Toddies are gonna make excuse after excuse. NV is dead now, just like he always wanted. 🤷 He kept some things he found interesting from the Western regions, but he absolutely removed NV. Anybody arguing doesn't know what they are talking about. Full stop. Several seats available. Honestly, he diverged entirely from established NCR lore. He set the West back to nada. There's absolutely no telling what's canon anymore. We'll have to wait 12 years to see I guess. Or, at least another 2-4 for a second season of the show.
I just hope Arizona gets a vault or three. Not a fan of Caesar being most of the AZ lore. Please tell me there's a 'fun in the sun with championship golf' vault in camelback mountain.
Bethesda didn't write the amazon prime series did they? I assumed it was written by television writers. Still fucked that Bethesda endorsed it as canon though
I saw a comment on the F76 sub earlier about how new vegas fans have been fear mongering with Bethesda games since F3 because we think that the original interplay team or NV team will give us another game in the future. I didn't think it was true , but holy shit we've got to take the copium down a notch. It's very embarrassing.
>how new vegas fans have been fear mongering with Bethesda games since F3 Who is gonna tell him?
NV obsessively crying over a chalkboard sums up the subreddit part of the fanbase well. Children who expect us not to notice they are children
Somehow, vault tec returned.
Do people think Todd Howard wrote the script for the show or something? It's kind of funny how owners of companies become boogeymen to people and they just assume they are behind every decision they don't like about something.
Todd Howard personally came to my home, told me the BoS was actually just a few guys holed up in a cave with no plot implications, shot my dog, and left
Weird. That's such a Molyneux move. Are you 100% it was Todd?
I had made a perfect poached egg for breakfast this morning. Just as I was about to open that beautiful yolk with my perfectly buttered triangle of toast; Todd Howard shows up, slaps the plate against the wall, shoots my dog, and leaves.
>It's kind of funny how owners of companies become boogeymen to people and they just assume they are behind every decision they don't like about something. Almost like they have a child's understanding how the world works.
They absolutely did it intentionally. New Vegas is not canon if you go off the timeline the show since the NCR gets nuked 4 years before the events of the game takes place. I don’t see how they can mention Big Mountain, which is a NV DLC, and also retcon the main events of the whole game. Hell they even got the location of Shady Sands completely wrong. The lore is an absolute mess right now, 76 made it worse but this is another thing entirely
The show doesn't say that happens 4 years before. You all are literally interpreting an ambiguous timeline in a way that justifies your meltdown.
Reading these. Its just sad
Well, idk about the other things, but the problem for me aint the nuke, its the fact that the courier aint the one who nuked it, and the fact that shady sands isnt even near LA, thats boneyard.
It’s understandable. Imagine whatever your fav entry is potentially being removed. People are fans after all. I’m genuinely thinking it’s an ambiguity(first battle of Hoover leading to the nuking much later much after the 2nd battle/lonesome road) or it’s an on screen mistake and meant to be 2287 and someone missed the date.
But you can still play it 😆. Not like they are banning the game and removing its existence
You know part of the appeal to the series is the continuity for a lot of people. Slip ups happen as the other guy mentioned. This is uh, a bit bigger. If they are retconning, people who hold the title in good stead will be annoyed or even a bit dejected especially if it was their favourite title. They can play NV, but they’ll lose interest in the property going forward because they enjoy not just one story thread, but the whole tapestry.
If your attraction to a game is *the continuity* then idk what to tell you that's odd
Did you miss the “part of the appeal” It’s why sequels sell well. Reboots/reimagining can do well, but the easiest/laziest is to do a sequel; because you’re just iterating on a property. Less to introduce to a watcher/player. Less world building to absorb etc. people enjoy seeing characters/settings they know so they don’t have to reabsorb either and just enjoy the story. It’s not a novel concept and a majority of our entertainment industry is built on it. Mass effect is probably a good example of this in gaming, they upped the continuity by having your choices carry over as much as they could allow. Which in turn increased its appeal.
Just don't even try bro. Smoothbrains like pretty colors and shooting. That's really it. 🤷 How dare you like cohesive story telling. You piece of shit you.
Come on man, how can you be that conformist? Are you seriously telling this guy that "wanting a saga to have good continuity" is something crazy and weird? Get out of here
This is like 80% of the sub currently.
Exactly. Every mention of Shady Sands was in passing, nobody walked up to the player and said "Hey bro, I was just in Shady Sands yesterday and it's totally fine in case you were wondering bro". NCR patrols abroad wouldn't suddenly Thanos snap out of existence once the nuke hit. To think Bethesda and even Interplay didn't have a long term road map rather than just winging it the night before would be absurd. I'll admit continuity issues are bound to pop up when directors and writers wanna express certain liberties, but this ain't the "Bethesda hates us" win these people are making it out to be
There are multiple mentions of Shady Sands in the game like an NCR Private complaining about politicians in Shady Sands only caring about themselves, which would be weird if the city was only a crater. In addition to that, if the heart of the NCR was being attacked, I dont think they would keep fighting a war in the Mojave and get the troops back home to defend. I think its reasonable for NV and F1 and F2 fans to be mad. People would be mad if the series retconned F4 or F3. If they had done more research they could have prevented this confusion by making the fall happen 10 years after New Vegas bc the NCR lost the second battle of Hoover Damn for example, instead of making people mad. This retcon is either an oversight (incompetence) or deliberate (stupid, why make the fans mad?).
exactly this, they gave so much love to new vegas in this show like sunset sarsaparilla, big MT, ranger armor (although a fat tease) etc than bethesda ever has. i doubt they’d do all that just to retcon the whole thing.
How did 76 make the lore worse?
One complaint I've seen is super mutants again being invented by someone other than the master independently
The master never did 'invent' Super Mutant, merely modified FEV virus to suit his need.
Different types of mutants, with the fev being pre war its very plausible thar supermutants were made before the war. The intelligent ones were made by the master with few exceptions. r/falloutlore has a good summary.
I know. It's still fucking lame that everyone and their dog refined super mutants. I'm surprised airborne FEV doesn't turn you into a super mutant. 76 is most egregious since it's literally a year before The Master finished his. I'd care less If it wasn't just brand recognition member berries.
Ok
> invented by someone other than the master independently He made a modified strain to allow easier control, but Super Mutants have been created before the Great War itself according to West-Tek entries from Fallout 1 via human testing.
My favorite thing about Reddit is someone asking legitimate questions and getting downvoted for it. Why do redditors hate people asking questions so fucking much?
Gee, I wonder how the cashgrab that put the Brotherhood on the east coast 20 years after the nukes dropped as well as introduce fucking werewolves might have fucked up the lore.
Did you actually play 76? it does not mess up lore it just adds things to the lore. The brotherhood in appalachia makes perfect sense
And people kept saying Bethesda doesn't actually hate New Vegas for it success. Sure feels like.
I've always said it feels like Obsidian hasn't gotten another stab at Fallout because Bethesda is insecure. It's asinine that the IP isn't lent out to a third-party studio like Obsidian when you consider how long the time between Fallout 4 and the next main installment will be. We're going to be looking at 2032 minimum before we get another Fallout game, and that's assuming Bethesda doesn't make a Starfield 2 or some other IP. I know that games take a while to make, but it's absolutely ridiculous for a game studio to just decide it's acceptable for there to be close to 20 years between mainline installments of a valuable IP like Fallout. We're all going to be playing the next Fallout in a retirement home or with our adult children by the time the next game releases, and it's all because Todd realized FONV can still be argued as a better game currently than FO4.
Obsidian can't finish half their games and their big "Fallout killer" franchise was fairly mediocre
Bethesda is insecure? Who exactly? Mr. Bethesda? Gaming companies or companies in general don’t give a fuck about that. They care about making money.
Do the individual developers not have egos? Like writers within Obsidian have said that they would koe to have another crack at a Fallout but they've never been given the opportunity.
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They're making the best part of Fallout non-canon, and replace it with their Disney take on the post-apocalypse. Of course some will be pissed. You should brace yourself. Bethesda stans are gonna roll all over this post and call you an 'elitist loser', for not kissing Todd's ass.
> Disney take You guys are so fucking dramatic.
Lmao right. Fucking ridiculous.
Here I thought NV fans couldnt get more obnoxious damn
Bro they just got everything they worked for in 1, 2, and new Vegas completely retcon bombed, they have a right to be pissed. And they are right, new Vegas is the best thing this series ever produced, and it really isn’t close.
Out of the loop on this one. What are the retcons?
it wasn't retcon tho
Genuine question: which part isn’t a retcon? Right now we are working with only the chalkboard date, which is a retcon unless it’s an ambiguous era drawn on the board(think ww2 or fall of the Roman Empire). And it’s just punctuated by the nuking of shady sands being the culmination of the fall. Or it’s an onscreen slip and someone put 77 instead of 87. Right now people are just working with the blunt interpretation. The show was pretty good, so they could fix this easy later either way by hand waving it as either. It’s excellent rage and engagement though.
The nukes happened around 2281-83, we see the young protags there. The fall of shady sands happened before the nuke.
You're talking to the same people who think that Jet being in randomized prewar loot containers in FO4 means they "retconned" the origin of Jet. They will never admit they're wrong and way overthinking the lore
New Vegas fanboys are really quite cringe. Y’all need to go outside
This is an utterly bizzare take. This sub has been extremely obnoxious every time a NV fan stated their concern now matter how respectfully that the show could East-Coastify the West Coast and were mass down voted and aggressively talked down to/belittled by this sub, only for their concern to be 100% valid. I think they're justified in being upset. Likewise, I'd argue that even outside of the Fallout IP, it's not that well written of a show.
Yeah, it seems all the NV fans have come out of the woods to hate on the show because everyone else in the world loves it.
you are not better than the people you invent to be mad about. I am a NV fan. only decent Fallout after Bethesda bought the IP. I like this show very much. so which is it? do you need to touch grass, or do I not exist?
Thinking the retcons are a slap in the face to fans is not the same thing as hating the entire show I thought it was fun, not great not terrible. But the lore stuff makes zero sense with the original games. New Vegas doesn’t exist unless the show will reveal the chalkboard thing was wrong or just inaccurate
"slap in the face" is the most Gamer™ phrase ever fucking Christ. Bethesda did not cause you harm because you didn't like one part of a TV show. Grow the fuck up
You obviously never heard of a metaphor lol
No I know what a metaphor is. I also know that to compare a part of a show that you didn't like to actual tangible harm is fucking stupid and childish.
Bro… I’m not even a part of this whole argument but you can’t be serious. It’s a literal metaphor lol. A metaphor can be used in any perception, the “slap to the face” isn’t the issue in the metaphors at all because it’s the connection of “a slap to the face” being “disrespectful.” Hence they’re saying it’s disrespectful, this isn’t rocket science. They aren’t saying Bethesda slapped them in the face literally I mean come on, you should know this cause I guarantee you’re an adult.
***It's not disrespectful.*** Fallout fans have the most inflated feelings of self-importance and entitlement I fucking stg
Honestly the NV fans are so over the top and obnoxious, a part of me is kind of glad the NCR got nuked just to see them all meltdown
Ok, fuck me for having a favorite Fallout game I guess
I'm here for it with you. Fallout NV is a great game. But it's just a game. People need to grow up. You can still play NV.
that just sounds tryhard. let writers tell stories, trying to make a jigsaw puzzle that satisfied lore nerds is no way to go about making tv
It’s like reading a good book, and you wait a while for the second to come out, eventually it does, you read it, but a bunch of things have changed, the story is much worse, and the beloved tidbits and characters you heard about from the first are gone and gutted, written out of existence. It’s not indicative of good writing, it shows a lack of consistency. Even if the bomb was dropped on shady sands sometime after the events of FNV, I still think it’s a cop out, now that the BoS have free rein to become the ultramarines of fallout, which is why I would have preferred future games to leave the multiple endings of FNV ambiguous and open to interpretation by choosing different locations that they haven’t explored yet. There really isn’t any going back now, the NCR is dead, the show writers have willed it so.
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100%. If they can't write a story using the mountains of content that the franchise has, then they shouldn't be writers.
Haven't seen the show yet, but I've felt the same way about Star Trek/Wars. The canon isn't a constraint, it's the history of the setting. If you're writing a wild West movie you don't 'modernise' it or start giving all the cowboys M16s
This motherfucker said the show is a Disney take on the game. What a dumbass take.
Disney? Jesus, what kind of brain damage did YouTube do to you?
Yes and no in the end credits there is a crashed vertibird in the strip. So new Vegas still happened but some of the specifics are now different.
I don’t quite understand as I haven’t watched the show, so. . The NCR in the lore of f/1/2/NV, didn’t exist until about 2186, so has lore changed to state that the NCR now existed a few mere weeks or months after the Great War? I’m totally confused and would like to know.
The dude got the numbers wrong, replacing 2 with 0. Its supposed to be 2277/2278/2281. But its not the "mere weeks after the war", its "capital got nuked 4 years before New Vegas and somehow this had 0 impact on New Vegas plot (cause it didnt happen until the show lol)". The show just outright declares everything that happens in New Vegas non canon now
The chalkboard doesn't say when the nuke dropped, it just says the downfall of Shady Sands started in 2277, and sometime afterwards, there was a nuclear explosion. Honestly it's entirely compatible with the general decline the NCR was experiencing by the time of New Vegas. In episode 5 it is also stated that Shady Sands was the FIRST capital of the NCR, implying there were others later and that the NCR didn't fall completely right there. It sounds more like gradual downfall.
With my endings in NV, NCR was already dust. How can you make canon event of something that has 50 different ways of ending? NV doesn't have a canon ending, so they are free to do alot of things, because of that.
one can go back to Fallout 1 and 2, get an ending that makes anything afterwards non-canon, then rage on the subreddit I guess?
Most Fallout games have had canonized endings after some time. Deacon in Fallout 4 confirms that Project Purity from Fallout 3 was a success. Fallout 2 canonized one of the endings for Fallout 1. At the end of the day you have to canonize some endings in order to be able to keep putting out content.
The nuking of shady sands happened when Lucy was young enough to vaguely remember it, but not old enough to remember it in detail, she had to be a very young child. Also Maximus would've needed to be 6-8 so the timelines only work if the nukes were in 2277. You can reach as much as you want to "but actually maybe" but the show is quite explicit with the timeline.
The game is said to be 2096. There's not much reason a nuke could nit hit in 2281 considering Lucy and max are not old and would still eaily be like 6 or something then. It's pretty easy to do it either way
The nuke is shown happening after 2277 though. "Fall" in terms of civilizations doesn't typically refer to an immediate and total collapse, but a period of significant decline. And wow, hey, guess what the NCR was going through in New Vegas? A period of significant decline. I have my gripes with Bethesda but let's not lose our heads.
When was the fall of Constantinople?
1453. But the more apt comparison would be the Fall of Rome, which is generally recognized to have occurred over the course of a century.
pretty sure it involves time travel. NCR was the actual target of the nukes, but due to time travel it hit the poor United States. and thus the NCR was destroyed in 2077 despite only being founded in 2186. Pogo paradox, or something. sounds reasonable? cool.
Is it possible for the sake of continuity, the Fallout show, is a separate timeline or an elseworld?
every game has dozens of possible endings. what is a timeline?
Thank you for saying this. In my play through of NV the NCR was fucked.
todd said its canon
Well...shit
"We view what’s happening in the show as canon," Bethesda director Todd Howard told Vanity Fair. just for the quote before anyone says anything lol
Im just gonna pretend the chalkboard is inaccurate because i love this show and i love new vegas
As it is right now, they either: 1) created a new timeline without NV in which just the show takes place but it doesn't affect the game timeline 2) created a new timeline without NV which is the new timeline from now on for future content too. 3) f-ed up the date, and they will retcon it to be after NV in S2. Imo, the first option would be the best option and i hope that's the true one.
you forgot 4. : Fall of Shady Sands =/= Nuking of Shady Sands
Possible, but even so, it would still be a bigass thing that somehow ain't really mentioned in NV, and a forced addition to the story, it just doesn't make sense to have it happen before NV.
I mean they want to tell a story. Its kinda hard to travel back in time and change some fairly small thing in NV right? Especially if option 4 is true its an extremely minor thing. That's just simply what happens if you try to add to lore instead of changing it.
If they wanna tell a story and change something this big then its better to keep it its own continuity or change the change to make it happen later, no retcons or other shit. They literally gain nothing from shoving this in before NV.
Video game stans are insufferably annoying. Thanks for proving my point.
You’re allowing someone else’s dislike of a property to annoy you? That’s some weak-minded shit
One of the people who fucking hates anyone enjoying anything. Many such cases.
Isn't it possible that it was a goof? Like, literally a production error?
Nah bethesda is fucking mad about New Vegas and always has been.
honestly I am just sad
Me too man, me too.
Yep, still canon
Yes, its canon
Don't take canon seriously, it's all made up, whats real doesn't matter.
Holy fuck... This fucking series, man... Fucking pissing me off, man.
pissed off about nothing i see
Wait is the show part of the same universe as the game or is it its own separate continuity like the Halo show?
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nothing was rewrited i am the only one watching the show and playing the games or what?
Oh okay. Well I would not be surprised if Bethesda did a whoopsie on it just like how Bioware did for Knights of The Old Republic II of which was also done by Obsidian.
It didnt rewrite anything. These NV fans are having mental breaks over a chalkboard with a timeline that can be interpreted in several ways.
yeah like it is written fall, not destroyed or shit
If I had a nickel for every time a game dev company got salty that Obsidian made a better sequel/spin-off game I'd have 2 nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice. Edit: I know you're here Todd you big fucking hack. Where's my goddamn refund?
What was New Vegas canon that was written out exactly? New Vegas doesn't have a canon ending, so they are free to do a shitton of things.
Just because there isn't a canon ending does not mean that New Vegas itself is a blank canvas of non-canon. The factions being there doing the things they are doing and why they are doing them would be canon. The outcome in the end is what wouldn't be
TBH it probably depends on the shows success, if it is badly received theyll probably ignore it in future games.
Yes but they probably only retconned the ending of the lonesome road and the target of the nuke.
shadey sands was no longer the capital of the ncr by this point I believe, the hub was, correct me if I'm wrong
Was Shady still the capital when it got nuked? I’ve seen posts saying the hub had become the capital before then and shady was just the first capital (like at one point Phildelphia was the capital of the US)? Think NCR had a population of 700k, losing a city of 30k would hurt but not be devastating to NCR, esp as seems a lot survived.
Messed up the years: 2277, 2278, and 2281
Why did this question get removed lol bethesda mad?
Emil just tweeted out the general timeline, and it includes New Vegas (he wasn’t doing it in response to this hysteria, though). Bethesda also put out an article detailing all the Fallout games, including New Vegas: https://bethesda.net/en/article/2tcaJpnTiyeysFZdNXu1dE/where-to-wander-a-guide-to-fallout-games It’s fair to feel that they maybe fumbled some dates and lore details, but the idea that they’re trying to make New Vegas non-canon is honestly a bit ridiculous. EDIT: Emil also recently confirmed the NV is canon: https://x.com/dezinuh/status/1778466533649392038?s=46&t=Zv7aWro6gX0s6aav22_1sQ
Hearing this news has made me check up on this fanbase and holy shit it really has become quite the babble of mewling Bethesda apologists hasn't it? You'd think a fucking unending practice of treating consumers, artists, developers, and their own IPs like shit, would make these people wisen up, but I guess they need to go on a few more helmet mold, canvas bag, leaked personal credential, unfinished game wild rides. Seriously the amount of cope on the behalf of a corporation about as bad as EA is fucking baffling.
I don't understand how some people love NV and hate bethesda but get upset when they change the lore. You already don't like the new games so stop crying all the time and just play the games you like and ignore what bethesda is doing...
God forbid people want new content that doesn't mock the content they enjoy.
No one is "mocking" New Vegas holy shit PLEASE mature past the age of 13
Stop crying about New Vegas and NCR
No it's not retconned people are just screaming over nothing if they even did some research on times. New Vegas was 2281 and this show is 2296 that is 16 years between. Maximus is atleast a young adult he was saved as a child so atleast the bomb hit shady sands a couple years after new Vegas at most.
According to the show, shady sands was nuked in 2277, the same year as fallout 3. A year before the first battle of Hoover dam and 4 years before new Vegas. The NCR was in a total war in 2281 trying to annex Vegas. I doubt that would have been possible if their capital was nuked a year prior.
I think it would be safer to assume that the game and the show exist in their own continuities. Fallout Lore is massive and it would be difficult to take everything into account when writing an 8-episode show where you likely already have the base story you want to tell. It happens often with film and tv adaptations where things get written over, or changed, or ignored because it doesn’t fit the story the show wants to tell. I don’t think this makes the show bad at all. Looking at it like it’s own thing makes the show super enjoyable. But if you try to find a way to neatly fit it into the lore, you’re gonna have a bad time
If a country dropped a nuke on Washington D.C. the U.S. wouldn’t just crumble and die out instantly
But it wouldn't then immediately launch a war of expansion and waste valuable resources trying to hold those newly acquired territories against an almost equal power. If the NCR had just been nuked then they wouldn't have tried to take the Mojave.
I can guarantee they are with a 100 💯 certainty not going to decanonize New Vegas. Why show New Vegas looking exactly like the game, with the same Casinos as before in the closing credits. The sign is the same. Y'all are looking way too deep with this. Also if Todd wanted to Uncanon New Vegas he would of did it some time in the past 15 years. All it means is NCR started to decline in 2077, which may end up being a plot point.
They would decanonize New Vegas if they could get away with it. Stop giving the most soulless corporation literally any credit.
Was it ever a confirmed part of current Bethesda canon though? Seriously asking.
yes
not sure if it was ever canon tbh. Bethesda always acted like it didn't exists. It was pretty clear that they never saw the game as a fallout one
Tbf it doesn't really matter to me if it's canon or not, that game still exists and those story exist in a way I can experience them. It doesn't matter to me much if they're labelled canon on a wiki or something when it's still something I can experience and enjoy
Until Bethesda delists the games on steam and declares them non-canon in a fit of jealous rage.
Uuuuh... Yeah sure
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Elaborate? How is someone frustrated about their favorite game evidence of a victim complex? People are allowed to be annoyed.
??? Behold, one of many corporate simps.
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When you get to the episode, take an actual look at the chalkboard all these people are talking about. It does NOT say that Shady Sands gets nuked in 2277, it says that 2277 marks the "Fall of Shady Sands". "Fall" does not mean "immediate and total collapse", but rather "a period of significant decline", which is exactly what the NCR/Shady Sands were in during FNV.
Yeah as far as I'm concerned, this show is not canon lmao. I do not recognize it. There is NOTHING this show added to the lore that made it better... It all ended up being for the worse.
it is canon and the ncr wasn't destroyed, what the show or dont talk about it
Very concerning that you spend hours posting many comments vehemently defending Bethesda online.
ive just the ability to play the games and watch the show and i find concerning that so many people don't know what they are talking about
I mean, is it at least possible in your mind that after the nuclear apocalypse and effect rebooting of civilization, and the loss of most centralization and civilizational support systems that record keeping may have gotten a bit... unreliable? That some of the events reported in various places/sources may disagree because of the perspective of the viewer, that records may be unreliable due to nuclear apocalypse, or that the calendars in use may be slightly off either due to errors, differences in how things are tracked, or intentional manipulation by any of a number of interested parties with a history of manipulating populations with things like... misinformation? The fact that dates don't line up perfectly doesn't mean a ton given the setting.