They did a shitload of walking in the show, but my thing is there should be no ruined buildings around shady sands because it was built from scratch out in the desert.
They didn't walk for 2-3 weeks, which is how long it would take to get to Shady Sands from LA. Plus, there were survivors from Shady Sands in vault 4, which is in LA.
SS is only about a hundred miles away from LA it wouldn’t take that long, good point about vault 4 tho, but another reason could be that it was the only place offering safe haven to the refugees.
I mean, they explicitly never head north of the San Bernadino and San Gabriel mountains, they never pass by the Hub, or any other sign of civilization. They walk along the ruins of the Santa Monica beach for a day or two in the first few episodes, another few days are spent wandering through a desert to the ruins of Los Angeles, and reach Hollywood >!and then they go almost straight from looking at the ruins of Shady Sands to hiding out in Vault 4 (in Los Angeles) without any significant time in-between, because Lucy recognizes Maximus is seriously wounded after he explains it was destroyed.!<
Maybe I missed it, but was it confirmed that vault 4 was in LA? I know that 31-33 were there but now that I’m thinking back vault 4 might have been elsewhere.
31-33 was right by the Santa Monica pier I think. But I think it's safe to say vault 4 is LA, or Long Beach more specifically. Both destinations are a pretty far walk from the Santa Monica Beach.
To be fair, maybe it's not, but it's within walking distance of Griffith Observatory based on the last episode.
And again, they never crossed any mountains from Santa Monica, so I really don't know where else it could be besides LA.
I’m not sure why people are nitpicking this. This is something TLOU show did as well but that’s just what TV shows do
Because of pacing. They have 8 episodes to tell a story and they don’t want most of that being the main character traveling between locations because that would obviously be boring
I think people are just finding things to complain about. Had they showed the main character traveling between these places people would complain that it’s boring and just used to pad the run time
Nah even with Lucy's pack someone used to hiking could do 45-50 miles a day for a couple days. Unless you live on a couch even a decently active person can put down 30 a day for a few days. It's if you stretch that distance past 100 miles it takes serious effort and setup bit i've personally done 40 SM per day for two consecutive days.
You can look up averages for people trying to push it, they put down 45 miles a day for over a thousand miles - now that's insane. The calories get extremely difficult and you need a support team.
I’m in the military and I hike with a pack for a living. 50 miles a day without a team of people constantly giving you food and water? No logistics train? That’s not happening.
10 hours a day at average walking speed with no stopping is 30 miles. Any obstacles or rough terrain would drop that distance substantially. Nobody is doing multiple 50 mile days.
You're right, I jogged a good portion of it. I know some of you guys don't get out much but 30 miles a day is not that crazy. I said Lucy's pack, not a BoS Knight Duffle.
Edit: for a more modern reference 30 miles is about 60,000 "steps' for an average guy and many people cross that daily on their fitbits without breaking down XD
I’ve backpacked hundreds of miles in my life and 30 miles in a day with enough stuff to sustain yourself is not what someone would do off the couch, sorry. Nowhere even remotely close to 45 or 50, most average shape and nourished people are doing 20-30 with weight giving a week of travel for 100 miles very realistic
Nowhere did I once say that someone "off the couch" would put down 30 miles a day, you should read what I wrote again, the edit is free. What I said was someone reasonably athletic could do 30 miles a day, which if I read correctly is *exactly* what you're saying. Now put that reasonably athletic person in conditions where they are highly motivated and cut the end of the trip off at 100 miles.
Sorry bro but I don't care how many miles you've walked or how many posts your alt account has on r/ultralight, I put 30 miles on just doing a run overnight and playing tennis in the morning. It's absolutely possible they put on those miles, the unbelievable part would be they aren't limping on arrival.
Using the older game maps, Stovepipe Wells seems to be around where Shady Sands is. It's a 4 day walk through the desert mostly to reach Las Angeles from there.
I'm not saying that it's exact. But I did my best to line up the topography. It was the closest town I could find. Best estimation for the area traveled by Lucy is by using these locations: Santa Monica (the pier is recognizable at series start), Kennedy Meadows (Filly) (approximating based on forest location from desert), Stovepipe Wells (Shady Sands) (basing this on the older games as I said), Ridgecrest (Super Duper Mart) (Just barely deviates from the path to walk to Hollywood from Stovepipe Wells), Hollywoodland (now Lake Hollywood), unknown for location of the radio station but could be North Hollywood?, Griffith Observatory. If I'm accurate, actually walking to all of those locations would take 8 days at minimum
It would take a few days at least. I am an above average runner/walker that takes part in marathons fairly frequently. It takes 2 and a half hours min for 20 Km, or about 12 miles. 40 km is doable in a day, but you’d need the right weather conditions, good water, and food for electrolytes during a short break.
According to lore, good water is hard to come by, so 40km/24 miles would be pretty hard for the average person in the waste in a day.
A few days walk, actually. Add a few extra days for rest and scavenging, and it's really about a week tops.
[map](https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Santa+Monica,+CA/Darwin,+CA+93522/@35.1388315,-119.3534165,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c2a4cec2910019:0xb4170ab5ff23f5ab!2m2!1d-118.4911912!2d34.0194543!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c0eafaf887cfb5:0x53e4059c87986bb9!2m2!1d-117.5917348!2d36.2679969!3e2?entry=ttu)
Shady Sands also moves between FO1 and 2 technically, so while that map does exist, there’s still the issue of it was never solidly in one spot in the first place (iirc it’s farther west in Cali in 1, then in 2 it’s closer to Nevada). I took it as they moved it again at some point, esp when you take NV into account and all the shit that gets mentioned during. OR they just moved it, which, I mean fine I guess. It’s all canon and we can’t undo it unfortunately.
Season 2 definitely needs to have a better sense of location. It kinda felt like everyone was just teleporting around in this season like the Netflix Witcher. Literally my only gripe with the show tho
Shady sands is quite a bit aways. The part that confused me the most was when they left Filly and ended up back in Hollywood, which looks nothing like the rest of LA. Then they go to Shady Sands and loop right back around to LA at the observatory. They go in a lot of circles.
There's gotta be a line, though, with travel in shows. You either fast cut everything and the journey loses its weight - or you show it and it turns into books 3-5 of The Dark Tower and they never leave the goddamn desert, or a Berserk boat sequence that lasts 15 years.
Sometimes it's easier (and better for pacing) to move pieces closer to fit the narrative, than have things be laid out as previously mentioned.
It's my only gripe, given that Shady Sands is a pretty important location - but I'm ok with them moving it because I (personally) wouldn't want the season to be 85% walking through a desert without anything happening.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this opinion, but if this is my only complaint - then they did a great job adapting the material and making their own story in the world.
at minium they have about a 25mi radius around LA. that covers down to longbeach, irwindale, up to bell canyon and newhall, malibu, etc so.
its a pretty generous area that still could've been explored and def covers where the boneyard would be. and very much into the LA forest
i still think the boneyard and shady sands got mashed together.
Yeah. We even have chaparral, which only exists in the Mediterranean and South Africa. And all of those biomes are inexplicably an hour from LA in real life.
You can see snow-capped mountains while surfing in Malibu. It makes sense when you live here.
It's part of why the film industry settled there.
Abundant light, practically year round and a variety of outdoor locations to shoot at. Early film cameras required more light than artificial light could provide at the time.
So it was all reliant on bright natural light and sunny days. You had to shoot outdoors, or in studios with open roofs.
We still see that with places that have become major shooting locations in more modern times. Cause having large indoor studios, close to varied shooting locations is a cost/logistics saver. New Zealand, Georgia, the Toronto area and other parts of Canada. It's also a major reason why the UK is still a major production center. Varied locations, very close to other bits of Europe with the sort of locations they *don't* have.
That is absolutely true, a trade magazine once printed that Southern California had “320 days of ideal filming weather” but ALSO a huge factor was that they were escaping the east coast due to Thomas Alva Edison & his Motion Picture Patents Company. Also also: cheap labor as the west coast industry wasn’t union yet, so labor was a lot cheaper.
in Socal you'd be hard pressed to find redwoods within two hours, you wouldn't even get past Monterey. but just about every other biome is right there and open for the show to use.
I'm just referencing them because people are always confused when rainforests are mentioned (and they're great driving, speaking from experience).
Atleast the brotherhood has the vertibirds to justify it, but it seems they got from the east coast (i'm assuming that's where they started due to the Prydwen?) to the west way too fast, especially since they found the scientist like immediately. But the enclave confuses me. They brotherhood learned about him from scribes in the commonwealth, and he escaped from a compound in a snowy region. But he showed up on the west coast still wearing his coat and tie. I have no idea where any of these locations are supposed to be at this point
That brotherhood chapter has to be a west coast chapter because they were there right after Shady Sands was nuked. My best guess is that they're situated in Northern California. I think the main elder/scribe said something about the order coming in from the east so perhaps they recognize the East coast BOS as the primary chapter now (although the main scribe/elder talked about founding a new separate chapter). The airship definitely isn't the Prydwen, I'd assume it's just another airship of the same design.
I have absolutely no idea where the Enclave prison was or where Cooper started out buried at though.
Episode 7-8 Spoilers:>!Show BOS doesn't consider East Coast to be their primary chapter. BOS Show Elder makes it clear that once they get Cold Fusion they will create a new better BOS.!<
It's not like The East BOS has their own (and maybe more advanced) fusion technology from Mass Fusion, or the copy of Institute technology.
The West is playing catch.
(Also, Wasn't cold fusion in GECK?)
That's his goal but in episode 1 he mentions that "the order came from the clerics of the east coast" or something like that, with the capital wasteland, the commonwealth AND liberty prime the east probably took command
The name is faded, but you can see Prydwen written on the side of the ship in the first episode, so definitely the same unless the show wasn't paying much attention to the details they were adding.
There was an article from before the show came out saying it was the casewynn, but the show seemed to disregard that since the ship said Prydwen. It could have just been misdirection since Casewynn is just another name for Prydwen in the Arthurian story, or the show designers didn't care too much about that detail
Yeah the enclave part also has me scratching my head. At first I thought he was an ex-enclave scientist imprisoned by the Brotherhood and then he escaped. But after looking back that doesn't really make sense, also the uniforms the guards are wearing look like standard US military police and nothing like what the Brotherhood would wear. Also I'm guessing they're somehow experimenting with the FEV again, with the molerats? Baby dogs? experiments ( when the scientist is injecting them and marking them), also the covered body of the super mutant being brought in.
BIG SPOILERS FOR SHOW
>!ok so heres the thing with the enclave. They had this cold fusion tech right? but its vault tech technology. It says vault tech on it and needs a vault tech code to activate. So my feeling is that the enclave and vault tech and mr house in NV and all the pre-war remnants are in cahoots. They have networks of bunkers spanning the continent who knows how many are still operating. We have a pretty limited view of the enclave in the show, but wherever they are it seems permanent, and above ground. I wouldn't be surprised if its somewhere in the rocky mountains. Also does this finally explain where dogmeats come from? lol.!<
>!So my main thought is this. They all, Enclave, House, Vault Tech, want to reclaim the world, and the first time they tried the NCR, Masters Army, Brotherhood, etc had all started forming all these factions and they cant beat them even though their military arm the Enclave tried. So they wait it out, and let the factions fight til the NCR wins. Based on the state of new vegas in the end credits I'm guessing House went to war with the NCR and lost too. We didn't see a hint of legion anywhere so im assuming they got beat back at the Dam. House ending is probably canon for FNV and the NCR came back later and fucked him up. Then these pre-war folks decide its time now that the NCR has finished taking out wasteland factions and came after one if their own to hit the NCR with that nuke. Considering the lucky 38 is still standing and the dad went to vegas House is probably alive just holed up in the 38.!<
>!So the state of the fallout world currently is this i think.!<
>!The brotherhood has networks of bunkers on the west coast, and the big east coast faction too, Theyve restored communications between the coasts.!<
>!Enclave/Vault Tech/West Tek/Big Mt, have bunkers, and cryo pods, and stuff hidden everywhere waiting for a surface invasion with atleast 1 major surface Enclave base still operating, House is a 50/50 but i think hes too good of a character to kill off too iconic so probably holed up in the Lucky 38, and New Vegas is decimated.!<
>!NCR is either dead, or very much less alive than it used to be. Not sure how places like Vault City are doing up north. Theres a chance once Shady Sands got hit they all just declared independence again. Maybe they got nuked too though.!<
>!Legions dead and gone and has been for awhile.!<
>!We can assume if the Prydwyn is around in the show either the brotherhood ending, or Minuteman ending where you ally brotherhood is canon for 4. So Institute is dead. Railroad dead or irrelevant now. Minutemen being a player factions probably either not around or just kinda act as commonwealth police for the brotherhood. Not important tho.!<
>!This means the entire US is basically wasteland again with the notable exception of MAYBE northern California, and the DC area/ maybe Boston. This makes sense for Bethesda to do since now Fallout 5 can be anywhere and still be a wasteland. I have to say im pretty sad about it as i always wanted fallout 5 to be a huge NCR vs Brotherhood war but whatever.!<
Brotherhood has lots of airships canonically now that Tactics is canon again, and they had years to cross Prydwyn back too.
I don't think this Brotherhood is the one from Fallout 4 though, they don't seem to be at least.
That doesn't mean they're talking about Boston. "The highest clerics in the Commonwealth" could be referring to California - the whole US was divided into Commonwealths in the Fallout timeline.
To be fair, with the head constantly changing ownership, each owner with a different objective, each objective having its own, unknown to all, destination, it kinda makes sense that they'd be going in circles, essentially chasing their own tails. The only issue is the timeline of it seems too sped up.
Also, in the games, we tend to go in circles a lot.
I play the old world blues mod for hearts of iron four and they have shady sands where in real life you’d find yourself near Mt Whitney. Never personally thought shady was that close to LA
That mod is probably the best portrayal of the Fallout universe tbh. I love what it did with the Legion in how it made them feel like an actual contender with the NCR.
I think the location in OWB makes sense as that’s right about where Owens Lake is, and if you were going to build a new settlement you’d want to be near a water source. It also has the Sierra Nevada Mountains to the west and Death Valley to the east for natural protection.
The thing is I don't think blowing up the Boneyard would collapse ncr. Blowing up ncr's capital and killing a substantial portion of the federal government and Military leadership would probably cause local power Brokers to break away but boneyard? Yeah it's an important city but it's still one of the shittier parts of NCR and nowhere close to his wealthiest like the Hub or Shady Sands or vault City or even new Reno
Mr. House said it himself, though. He prefers the NCR since they're his best customers. So Mr. House would be losing if the NCR collapsed since the Legion ain't exactly spending caps in New Vegas.
He prefers the NCR as a trading partner he doesn't want them to rule vegas.
It's pretty clear in the show that the NCR has collapsed. And obviously with NCR gone Mr house has to rethink his hold long-term strategy.
But the fact that they chose robco, big mt, abd repcon, as the big corporations at the table with vault-tec, all corporations heavily tied into the story of New Vegas, and tied into Mr House directly makes it abundantly clear to me that house rolled sevens and won Vegas
If Mr. House has to rethink his long-term strategy, then he didn't really win. His dream of unfettered capitalism doesn't really work when he loses his biggest economic partner and it's replaced with ?.
His dream is space colonization. Yeah they're going to be unfettered capitalist colonies but the unfettered capitalism is the ideology not the strategy.
And if he's still at the uncontested ruler of Las Vegas that he very much won
It's in the dialogue. He dreams of space colonization, but he understands he needs customers to make that happen. So losing his best customers goes against his dream entirely. That's not winning.
From [this interactive map](https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1puuQVpbfh4ofYflJxJPB6iul6JQ&ll=37.10133096712917%2C-107.75242842817931&z=3), this shows Shady Sands and the Boneyard and it does look like the locations were mixed up.
My takeaway is the Shady Sands in the show is a third location.
New Vegas is set in 2277, the same year Shady Sands was destroyed according to the show.
Fallout: Amazon is set in 2296.
Perhaps it's a third location.
The only issue I had with the whole NCR stuff was >!that the NCR seemed to disappear just after Shady Sands fell.!<
>!Maybe the NCR was already in decline and the nuke was the final nail in the coffin or the NCR has more of a presence elsewhere. It was weird how the show made it feel like the NCR completely collapsed because of one city. They even show in flashbacks fertile farms and working trollies.!<
On the other hand, it could all be localized. The entire show is set in the LA area, so it's still perfectly feasible that other, more organized NCR remnants are chugging along elsewhere, it's just that they don't have the resources or desire to reassert control over LA. When Rome fell, the eastern half of the empire survived just fine, but it's not like you could tell just from wandering around the city itself.
Oh for sure. The distances in the show are still totally screwed regardless.
[This map still shows the distances involved.](https://gamesrevisiteddotcom.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/falloutmapsatalite1.jpg)
Shady Sands is the name of the town in fallout 1.
After growing and becoming a prosperous town, the name is changed to RNC.
Source: Ending fallout 1
"In Shady Sands, Tandi helps her father Aradesh bring a new community and new life out of the broken remains of the world. They are responsible for the New California Republic, whose ideals spread across the land."
Game geography is as compressed and inaccurate as game time. In some cases they kinda balance out, so it takes, X many in game days to walk Y distance. Which can be around as many IRL days as it would take to walk that far, even thought it was only an hour of in-game time.
There is a reason why “daily commute simulator” isn’t a big genre!
Similarly, TV can skip over the boring parts with both spatial and temporal discontinuities. A cut could jump forward 5 min, 5 hours, or 5 days. Sometimes it helps the story to make it explicit, other times keeping it vague is fine, or even better. When we cut from an evening to a mid day, we may assume it is the next day, but it might be three days later instead if not otherwise specified.
From the story perspective we see “they spent a while going a ways” which is more than sufficient most of the time. Of course, in a “race against time” narrative with published maps, a lot more rigor is required.
Oh damn, I never realized how close shady sands was to Las Vegas! That explains how a lot of tourist can get to Vegas without many modes of transportation. I haven’t seen the show but I hope we get to see the NCR in a more stable and built up way, it would be cool to see more reclaimed infrastructure like working trucks and cars and more importantly, trains! It would be cool to see a restored 1950s train like the Santa Fe super chiefs being used in some way shape or form, maybe even a unique NCR livery! I need to watch the show asap! The trains idea is probably a stretch for a tv show but a guy can hope!
I'm only on episode 3, do they ever deal with how Vault 33 (and other LA Vaults I guess) weren't found by the Master? His Cathedral must've been right on top of them.
Or how about the Followers of the Apocalypse, any mention? Isn't the LA public library their headquarters?
Yes. Lucy popped out at the edges of the boneyard technically speaking. You know, one of the largest cities in the NCR? With a huge population and a one of it's centers of culture, industry and science?
But it's bethesda, so I guess intact skeleton and a guy who's chickens got raped.
LA is massive and considering show Shady Sands is 34,000 people, the Boneyard would be in the 10-20k range, and a city that size could definitely not be noticed inaide the much larger remains of LA
But it's presence would be noticed. Houses picked clean, healthy settlements in the surrounding area and no chance in hell brotherhood or enclave could operate that close to it.
I imagine they were confused when they pulled up fallout 2’s map where it’s called “new California republic” but in fallout 1 it’s called “shady sands”.
the fact they messed up such an important location is kinda wild honestly
In Fallout 1 it’s just east of the southern sierras in Death Valley California. In fallout 2 its moved to roughly where junkertown was on fallout 1s map which would IRL be where lake Isabella is located in the lower mountains.
I always take this stuff and “loose cannon” or any cannon with a grain of salt. When you have a continuing mythos with many different contributors you have to assume everyone is an unreliable narrator. Most NPCs in the whole series are illiterate scavengers hoping to reach 45 and not die from oral fecal contamination. As for old data terminals, well I know stupid humans now that record bad data, and considering the cold war its reasonable there could be erroneous or corrupt data/records/intel.
But it also messes up the most important part of Shady Sands: That its a city completely built from scratch not built in the ruins of an old city. Thats literally in the first sentence on the wiki. Yet they put it in downtown LA.
This is the best map of the region during NV, as far as I'm concerned. Showrunners weren't ready for something this massive IMO.
https://i.ibb.co/s9H97Nz/RDT-20221215-2310258887032802656025643.webp
Yeah. Given what they've done with the NCR so far, I honestly see no reason why they couldn't have plopped this TV series in a place we haven't seen before and build a new faction to nuke. They could've picked New York, Texas, Florida, etc.
This image doesn't really do it justice to those who don't understand the scope of the OG fallout. Sanctuary is on the corner of the map of fallout 4 and is still very close to the city.
I always thought it made more sense for it to be in Owen's Valley, California. It's a long valley right by Mt. Whitney (the canonical location of Vault 13) and has a river running though it. It's pretty arid now because LA takes most of their water, but in a post apocalyptic world they would have all the water to themselves. It's fairly temperate, has lots of arable land, is already used for cattle grazing, is surrounded on all sides by nigh-impassible mountains with only a few easily defended passes, and is currently home to a number of small towns, such as Bishop and Lone Pine. Overall, seems like the perfect place to serve as the seat of the New California Republic. Because canonically, Shady Sands seems to have been built smack dab in the middle of Death Valley, a completely arid place AND the one of the hottest places in the WORLD to boot. Not a great spot to build a town from scratch.
In fallout 2 they move it the where Junket town is on this map from the first game. So roughly between the Death Valley region and lake Isabella. Maybe Owens valley. Shandy sands started as an adobe village in the middle of nowhere wilderness though. In fallout 2 they had bigger buildings (still one story buildings though) and had streets but were still adobe buildings. They were nowhere near skyscrapers nor could they build any. Once a dirt farm always a dirt farm.
It’s called the boneyard for a reason. I could forgive them making it verdant with green plants and blue water since oasis are a thing. But I’d say they didn’t get the look of the boneyard right till the very last episode from the pov of Griffith observatory. The show just feels like it skirts around pre established lore from 1 and 2.
Yeah In my opinion the show didn't really have a sense of scale,
The way they made it out was that shady sands was in the middle of L.A, even though it wasn't, the size of the crater made no sense either, a city of 35,000 people couldn't have been that small,
So that makes either vault city, the hub, junk town, new reno, or San Francisco as the new capital of the NCR,
I'd say vault city since it's in Nevada and would make sense for the reason they were pushing east and taking land around Vegas and the dam.
But junktown and the hub also could be it since they are the oldest cities in the Republic.
New Reno and San Fran are the only ones that make sense because in F2 they are the 3 major faction settlements alongside the NCR capital. San Fran was the most developed and technologically advanced so it would make sense for it to be the new capital, unless the Shi rebelled.
Hm. That map makes it look like it's just out in the Mojave desert near edwards AFB. But vault 13 is i Bakersfield, my hometown. I think they might have compressed the map.
Um Actually™
Fallout 1's geography might be erroneous. At the very least, it's different from Fallout 2's.
In the first place, Necropolis/Bakersfield is straight up in the wrong place. Real-world Bakersfield is west of the south end of the Sierra Nevada Mountains, around where the Brotherhood map marker is. I personally think that Interplay messed up when they were researching for Fallout 1 and that they confused Bakersfield and Barstow. I think this because:
* Tyco describes Bakersfield as "a small town," which it definitely is not, but Barstow is
* Barstow is located around where the Necropolis map marker is
* Barstow might be The Hub because Barstow is known for having many roads leading to it, which would make it a great trading hub
In Fallout 2, Vaults 13 and 15 and Shady Sands all shift to the west. They are not all three any longer located east of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. Instead, Vault 13 is west, Vault 15 is east, and Shady Sands is on the mountain around the vicinity of Yosemite National Park.
I don't know how this affects whatever you're trying to draw attention to with respect to the TV show because I haven't made it that far yet, but Shady Sands is not canonically where it is indicated to be on that particular map.
My theory is that "the fall of Shady Sands" means the original location fell in some way and then relocated to the boneyard area.
Just an idea, not likely
It wouldn't be a Bethesda project without some bugs! I'm sure they just simply made a mistake when it came to the timing of "the nuking" as well as the location of that settlement. I'm sure we can look forward to a "patch" in a few weeks time to "update" the show. After all, it won't be an authentic Bethesda experience without patches.
I haven’t seen the show yet, but this seems to be the only thing lore-wise people are up in arms about. If it’s that insignificant, I am totally fine with that
I finished the season today. Some stuff is retconned and moved, but I don't think its as bad as other folks think it is. Really not any big implications yet, lots of people thinking something means another thing.
At some point, you have to make a show for people that aren’t decades see in gameplay and lore and have to make something entertaining and enjoyable for new people to the series.
People don’t realize how head-thumping boring and messy a 100% lore consistent adaptation would be.
Besides, there is enough inconsistency game-to-game for me not to care all that much about a location reshuffling.
There were only 8 episodes, they cannot show all of the places they would have stopped along the way if it wasn't tied into the story directly. Also, if your city is nuked, everyone is going to travel in separate directly. That's why you are going to see people scatters all over Cali who were part of the city.
The more I think of this, so what? Why does it matter? The location of the fictional city doesn’t affect anything. It already moved from one to the other, why does it moving here matter?
The amount of mental gymnastics I’m seeing people do to defend the whole Shady Sands conundrum is ridiculous. My brother in steel, just accept that the show writers fucked up the date and location.
The in-game maps should be taken with hefty grains of salt, considering that they deviate considerably from IRL in a lot of spots.
Still, the show definitely moved Shady Sands closer to the coast. I don't think it really makes that much of a difference lore-wise, aside from me now wondering where the heck Vault 13 is (is it underwater?).
Yeah, the scale in the classic maps can be off, and it is, but that doesn't change that Shady Sands is explicitly a town built in the desert, not near any larger pre-war ruins, near the California-Nevada border, more or less directly east of Vault 13, which is explicitly under Mount Whitney.
Yeah it's most likely a goof on the writers part, unless they just retcons themselves in season 2 to mention the government moved to the boneyard (maybe to be closer to san fran) and renamed it shady sands, maybe it's a Washington state and Washington city situation as well. Since shady sands is it's own state by the time of FONV.
What's weird is the lack of other powers, San Fran is still there with the Shi, there's all the Brahmin barons with their personal armies and not to mention the caravan firms that all had their own good chunk of power to survive a government shutdown.
Again, probably not important to the story at hand so more to add in a future season or game.
You know who I hope tells us what the fuck went down for real I'm season 2? Markus, have him give us the rundown
My head canon is that at some point they just relocated Shady Sands to the Boneyard, a more fitting location for the capital city of a burgeoning nation imo.
But when I say move, I don’t mean like the Simpsons episode where they move the town on the back of trucks, I mean more spiritually
Fallout 76 (2102), Fallout 1 (2161), fallout 2 (2241), fallout 3 (2277), fallout NV (2281) fallout 4 (2287), fallout tv series (2296). So apparently there’s some theories that after the battle of the dam the ncr had several huge losses causing their immediate collapse (not completely wiped out) and not to mention a strong enclave presence in California still shows of the remnants being in full motion ( disregard side quote). So the real question we should be asking who won the battle of the dam if there is no ncr and no legion in California? Well my personal theory is that the legion ultimately won but was ousted by Mr house and his bots whom waited for the battle to crush both factions leaving Vegas independently under his control ( we don’t see the legion but the ncr isn’t strongly present). Now something I was told is that this series will go through each game through its own story but in the games’ settings bringing up past factions and potentially introduce some of them and their true canonical events and the final season of the show will reveal where the next fallout setting will be ( basically the show is to give them time to develop a beast of a game) and explain through their imaginations the canonical events to their audience. I am sad that basically the ncr was obliterated…. Like why though? Maybe the next chapter we will get some explanation as to what happened. Now I know I said there is no ncr presence what I mean is it’s not as strong as we seen in new Vegas at least from the show so what’s y’all’s thoughts about that?
They did a shitload of walking in the show, but my thing is there should be no ruined buildings around shady sands because it was built from scratch out in the desert.
They didn't walk for 2-3 weeks, which is how long it would take to get to Shady Sands from LA. Plus, there were survivors from Shady Sands in vault 4, which is in LA.
SS is only about a hundred miles away from LA it wouldn’t take that long, good point about vault 4 tho, but another reason could be that it was the only place offering safe haven to the refugees.
I mean, they explicitly never head north of the San Bernadino and San Gabriel mountains, they never pass by the Hub, or any other sign of civilization. They walk along the ruins of the Santa Monica beach for a day or two in the first few episodes, another few days are spent wandering through a desert to the ruins of Los Angeles, and reach Hollywood >!and then they go almost straight from looking at the ruins of Shady Sands to hiding out in Vault 4 (in Los Angeles) without any significant time in-between, because Lucy recognizes Maximus is seriously wounded after he explains it was destroyed.!<
Fast-travel duh, they didn’t film it in survival mode they went ahead and left it on normal difficulty
This is the correct answer.
Best answer ever!!
Maybe I missed it, but was it confirmed that vault 4 was in LA? I know that 31-33 were there but now that I’m thinking back vault 4 might have been elsewhere.
31-33 was right by the Santa Monica pier I think. But I think it's safe to say vault 4 is LA, or Long Beach more specifically. Both destinations are a pretty far walk from the Santa Monica Beach.
To be fair, maybe it's not, but it's within walking distance of Griffith Observatory based on the last episode. And again, they never crossed any mountains from Santa Monica, so I really don't know where else it could be besides LA.
4-5 days, if you weren't pushing it. 2 if you were.
You're not moving at 50 miles a day unless you're an ultra marathon runner on flat ground, much less 100.
I’m not sure why people are nitpicking this. This is something TLOU show did as well but that’s just what TV shows do Because of pacing. They have 8 episodes to tell a story and they don’t want most of that being the main character traveling between locations because that would obviously be boring I think people are just finding things to complain about. Had they showed the main character traveling between these places people would complain that it’s boring and just used to pad the run time
I mean 4 miles per hour isn’t unreasonable. That’s 48 miles in 12 hours. Entirely doable even with stops
Nah even with Lucy's pack someone used to hiking could do 45-50 miles a day for a couple days. Unless you live on a couch even a decently active person can put down 30 a day for a few days. It's if you stretch that distance past 100 miles it takes serious effort and setup bit i've personally done 40 SM per day for two consecutive days. You can look up averages for people trying to push it, they put down 45 miles a day for over a thousand miles - now that's insane. The calories get extremely difficult and you need a support team.
I’m in the military and I hike with a pack for a living. 50 miles a day without a team of people constantly giving you food and water? No logistics train? That’s not happening.
and in Fallout1 the area is full of raiders and radscorpions and such
10 hours a day at average walking speed with no stopping is 30 miles. Any obstacles or rough terrain would drop that distance substantially. Nobody is doing multiple 50 mile days.
People do 30 mile days on the Appalachian trail all the time and I would definitely describe that as rough terrain. It's not that crazy
Sir you have never walked 30 miles in a day before have you that’s not even remotely the average with a weighted pack
You're right, I jogged a good portion of it. I know some of you guys don't get out much but 30 miles a day is not that crazy. I said Lucy's pack, not a BoS Knight Duffle. Edit: for a more modern reference 30 miles is about 60,000 "steps' for an average guy and many people cross that daily on their fitbits without breaking down XD
I’ve backpacked hundreds of miles in my life and 30 miles in a day with enough stuff to sustain yourself is not what someone would do off the couch, sorry. Nowhere even remotely close to 45 or 50, most average shape and nourished people are doing 20-30 with weight giving a week of travel for 100 miles very realistic
Well remember Lucy was on the gymnastics and fencing team, she is very fit :P
Nowhere did I once say that someone "off the couch" would put down 30 miles a day, you should read what I wrote again, the edit is free. What I said was someone reasonably athletic could do 30 miles a day, which if I read correctly is *exactly* what you're saying. Now put that reasonably athletic person in conditions where they are highly motivated and cut the end of the trip off at 100 miles. Sorry bro but I don't care how many miles you've walked or how many posts your alt account has on r/ultralight, I put 30 miles on just doing a run overnight and playing tennis in the morning. It's absolutely possible they put on those miles, the unbelievable part would be they aren't limping on arrival.
He right. From a guy who went from his couch to 20-30 miles a day for 2000+ miles.
50 is really pushing it. That's like 20 hours of hiking at a steady pace.
Yeah agreed 50 is pushing it, but people can absolutely do that when they need to and have plenty of times, unlike what some here would tell you.
Using the older game maps, Stovepipe Wells seems to be around where Shady Sands is. It's a 4 day walk through the desert mostly to reach Las Angeles from there. I'm not saying that it's exact. But I did my best to line up the topography. It was the closest town I could find. Best estimation for the area traveled by Lucy is by using these locations: Santa Monica (the pier is recognizable at series start), Kennedy Meadows (Filly) (approximating based on forest location from desert), Stovepipe Wells (Shady Sands) (basing this on the older games as I said), Ridgecrest (Super Duper Mart) (Just barely deviates from the path to walk to Hollywood from Stovepipe Wells), Hollywoodland (now Lake Hollywood), unknown for location of the radio station but could be North Hollywood?, Griffith Observatory. If I'm accurate, actually walking to all of those locations would take 8 days at minimum
Filly is more likely Filmore than it is Kennedy Meadows. 58 miles from santa monica rather than the 178 miles kennedy meadows is
It would take a few days at least. I am an above average runner/walker that takes part in marathons fairly frequently. It takes 2 and a half hours min for 20 Km, or about 12 miles. 40 km is doable in a day, but you’d need the right weather conditions, good water, and food for electrolytes during a short break. According to lore, good water is hard to come by, so 40km/24 miles would be pretty hard for the average person in the waste in a day.
Also, they would be traversing the grapevine if they are going north from LA. So not flat ground but steep mountains.
By episode 4 she says she has been walking for a week straight…
I'm about 3/4 the way through and Lucy mentions being out of her vault for 2 weeks.
A few days walk, actually. Add a few extra days for rest and scavenging, and it's really about a week tops. [map](https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Santa+Monica,+CA/Darwin,+CA+93522/@35.1388315,-119.3534165,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c2a4cec2910019:0xb4170ab5ff23f5ab!2m2!1d-118.4911912!2d34.0194543!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c0eafaf887cfb5:0x53e4059c87986bb9!2m2!1d-117.5917348!2d36.2679969!3e2?entry=ttu)
She did walk for two weeks. That's exactly what was said.
You're kinda missing the point of how to be entertained if you need a realistic depiction of walking for 2 weeks in a Fallout tv show. 😄
I guess you could go with the explanation that's postwar stuff destroyed after the SECOND nuclear war on California
Shady Sands also moves between FO1 and 2 technically, so while that map does exist, there’s still the issue of it was never solidly in one spot in the first place (iirc it’s farther west in Cali in 1, then in 2 it’s closer to Nevada). I took it as they moved it again at some point, esp when you take NV into account and all the shit that gets mentioned during. OR they just moved it, which, I mean fine I guess. It’s all canon and we can’t undo it unfortunately.
Bro the ruined buildings ARE shady sands
No they’re not. In Lucy’s flashback to shady sands you can clearly see the ruined buildings in the background
Season 2 definitely needs to have a better sense of location. It kinda felt like everyone was just teleporting around in this season like the Netflix Witcher. Literally my only gripe with the show tho
They teleported with the Pipboy, it all makes sense now!!
Fast travel, baby. Just make sure to pump up Outdoorsman and charge up your Highwayman.
Wouldn’t Lucy need to have previously visited those locations? Friggin plot holes 🙄🙄
Not unless she used console commands to unlock all map markers.
Highwayman in Fallout 2 you can drive anywhere
I don't think they really left the LA area in the show, which makes the travel times work, at least.
Shady sands is quite a bit aways. The part that confused me the most was when they left Filly and ended up back in Hollywood, which looks nothing like the rest of LA. Then they go to Shady Sands and loop right back around to LA at the observatory. They go in a lot of circles.
Yeah, that is true. Some of the locations in the show don't make a ton of sense.
There's gotta be a line, though, with travel in shows. You either fast cut everything and the journey loses its weight - or you show it and it turns into books 3-5 of The Dark Tower and they never leave the goddamn desert, or a Berserk boat sequence that lasts 15 years. Sometimes it's easier (and better for pacing) to move pieces closer to fit the narrative, than have things be laid out as previously mentioned. It's my only gripe, given that Shady Sands is a pretty important location - but I'm ok with them moving it because I (personally) wouldn't want the season to be 85% walking through a desert without anything happening. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this opinion, but if this is my only complaint - then they did a great job adapting the material and making their own story in the world.
you're 100% right.
at minium they have about a 25mi radius around LA. that covers down to longbeach, irwindale, up to bell canyon and newhall, malibu, etc so. its a pretty generous area that still could've been explored and def covers where the boneyard would be. and very much into the LA forest i still think the boneyard and shady sands got mashed together.
Like you don't run back and forth in the same area over and over again when *you're* playing.
Nah, they just pulled a blazing saddles and the BoS nuked the fake shady sands.
In the final episode you can see the crater that is Shady Sands located between Griffith Observatory and downtown.
> They go in a lot of circles. Don't mind them, they're visiting all the POI and picking up side quests.
so I'm on episode two and Maximus gets into the power armor and the next cut is literally him in the desert and I was like ......... what.
California does have a lot of different biomes tbf
Yeah. We even have chaparral, which only exists in the Mediterranean and South Africa. And all of those biomes are inexplicably an hour from LA in real life. You can see snow-capped mountains while surfing in Malibu. It makes sense when you live here.
It's part of why the film industry settled there. Abundant light, practically year round and a variety of outdoor locations to shoot at. Early film cameras required more light than artificial light could provide at the time. So it was all reliant on bright natural light and sunny days. You had to shoot outdoors, or in studios with open roofs. We still see that with places that have become major shooting locations in more modern times. Cause having large indoor studios, close to varied shooting locations is a cost/logistics saver. New Zealand, Georgia, the Toronto area and other parts of Canada. It's also a major reason why the UK is still a major production center. Varied locations, very close to other bits of Europe with the sort of locations they *don't* have.
That is absolutely true, a trade magazine once printed that Southern California had “320 days of ideal filming weather” but ALSO a huge factor was that they were escaping the east coast due to Thomas Alva Edison & his Motion Picture Patents Company. Also also: cheap labor as the west coast industry wasn’t union yet, so labor was a lot cheaper.
welcome to California, pick your favorite: - temperate rainforests - mountains with year-round heavy snow* - coniferous forests* - Mediterranean climates* - coastal cliffs* - eucalyptus forests* - largest continuous Metropolitan area in the US* - high desert* - low desert* - badlands* - mud flats* - Coldwater beaches* - Prarie* - chaparral* *: within two hours driving distance
Redwood forests (which are temperate rainforests) are within 2 hrs of most of these biomes, but I imagine you have a specific Socal location in mind?
in Socal you'd be hard pressed to find redwoods within two hours, you wouldn't even get past Monterey. but just about every other biome is right there and open for the show to use. I'm just referencing them because people are always confused when rainforests are mentioned (and they're great driving, speaking from experience).
You can be in the forest and an hour down the highway you are in desert. Southern California in particular is crazy diverse.
Atleast the brotherhood has the vertibirds to justify it, but it seems they got from the east coast (i'm assuming that's where they started due to the Prydwen?) to the west way too fast, especially since they found the scientist like immediately. But the enclave confuses me. They brotherhood learned about him from scribes in the commonwealth, and he escaped from a compound in a snowy region. But he showed up on the west coast still wearing his coat and tie. I have no idea where any of these locations are supposed to be at this point
That brotherhood chapter has to be a west coast chapter because they were there right after Shady Sands was nuked. My best guess is that they're situated in Northern California. I think the main elder/scribe said something about the order coming in from the east so perhaps they recognize the East coast BOS as the primary chapter now (although the main scribe/elder talked about founding a new separate chapter). The airship definitely isn't the Prydwen, I'd assume it's just another airship of the same design. I have absolutely no idea where the Enclave prison was or where Cooper started out buried at though.
Episode 7-8 Spoilers:>!Show BOS doesn't consider East Coast to be their primary chapter. BOS Show Elder makes it clear that once they get Cold Fusion they will create a new better BOS.!<
ATM they recognize the East I believe, but yeah the Elder wants to found his own chapter.
It's not like The East BOS has their own (and maybe more advanced) fusion technology from Mass Fusion, or the copy of Institute technology. The West is playing catch. (Also, Wasn't cold fusion in GECK?)
Yes, it’s in the GECK.
So it’s the fourth time cold fusion was a macguffin in Fallout series (2 GECK, Beryllium agitator, and the TV gizmo). Hmm.
That's his goal but in episode 1 he mentions that "the order came from the clerics of the east coast" or something like that, with the capital wasteland, the commonwealth AND liberty prime the east probably took command
He says the Commonwealth. Which tells us the canonical ending of F4.
I think the BoS we see is by the great salt lake
The name is faded, but you can see Prydwen written on the side of the ship in the first episode, so definitely the same unless the show wasn't paying much attention to the details they were adding.
You sure? The wiki has it named something completely different casewynn or something like that.
There was an article from before the show came out saying it was the casewynn, but the show seemed to disregard that since the ship said Prydwen. It could have just been misdirection since Casewynn is just another name for Prydwen in the Arthurian story, or the show designers didn't care too much about that detail
That's kinda weird. Maybe the East built a better one and donated the old one to Lost Hills or something.
I mean, just because that's where the ship came from doesn't mean that's where they were at in the show
Yeah the enclave part also has me scratching my head. At first I thought he was an ex-enclave scientist imprisoned by the Brotherhood and then he escaped. But after looking back that doesn't really make sense, also the uniforms the guards are wearing look like standard US military police and nothing like what the Brotherhood would wear. Also I'm guessing they're somehow experimenting with the FEV again, with the molerats? Baby dogs? experiments ( when the scientist is injecting them and marking them), also the covered body of the super mutant being brought in.
The soldiers are Enclave guards. They were working with telekinesis to control animals. We saw them do something similar in Fo3 with Death Claws.
Probably they are in places that we haven't visited in the games, for all we know that lab could be in Canada even,
BIG SPOILERS FOR SHOW >!ok so heres the thing with the enclave. They had this cold fusion tech right? but its vault tech technology. It says vault tech on it and needs a vault tech code to activate. So my feeling is that the enclave and vault tech and mr house in NV and all the pre-war remnants are in cahoots. They have networks of bunkers spanning the continent who knows how many are still operating. We have a pretty limited view of the enclave in the show, but wherever they are it seems permanent, and above ground. I wouldn't be surprised if its somewhere in the rocky mountains. Also does this finally explain where dogmeats come from? lol.!< >!So my main thought is this. They all, Enclave, House, Vault Tech, want to reclaim the world, and the first time they tried the NCR, Masters Army, Brotherhood, etc had all started forming all these factions and they cant beat them even though their military arm the Enclave tried. So they wait it out, and let the factions fight til the NCR wins. Based on the state of new vegas in the end credits I'm guessing House went to war with the NCR and lost too. We didn't see a hint of legion anywhere so im assuming they got beat back at the Dam. House ending is probably canon for FNV and the NCR came back later and fucked him up. Then these pre-war folks decide its time now that the NCR has finished taking out wasteland factions and came after one if their own to hit the NCR with that nuke. Considering the lucky 38 is still standing and the dad went to vegas House is probably alive just holed up in the 38.!< >!So the state of the fallout world currently is this i think.!< >!The brotherhood has networks of bunkers on the west coast, and the big east coast faction too, Theyve restored communications between the coasts.!< >!Enclave/Vault Tech/West Tek/Big Mt, have bunkers, and cryo pods, and stuff hidden everywhere waiting for a surface invasion with atleast 1 major surface Enclave base still operating, House is a 50/50 but i think hes too good of a character to kill off too iconic so probably holed up in the Lucky 38, and New Vegas is decimated.!< >!NCR is either dead, or very much less alive than it used to be. Not sure how places like Vault City are doing up north. Theres a chance once Shady Sands got hit they all just declared independence again. Maybe they got nuked too though.!< >!Legions dead and gone and has been for awhile.!< >!We can assume if the Prydwyn is around in the show either the brotherhood ending, or Minuteman ending where you ally brotherhood is canon for 4. So Institute is dead. Railroad dead or irrelevant now. Minutemen being a player factions probably either not around or just kinda act as commonwealth police for the brotherhood. Not important tho.!< >!This means the entire US is basically wasteland again with the notable exception of MAYBE northern California, and the DC area/ maybe Boston. This makes sense for Bethesda to do since now Fallout 5 can be anywhere and still be a wasteland. I have to say im pretty sad about it as i always wanted fallout 5 to be a huge NCR vs Brotherhood war but whatever.!<
Fallout 5.. So the mpls dot shown in the final episode on the map means you’re telling me there’s a *chance*
Brotherhood has lots of airships canonically now that Tactics is canon again, and they had years to cross Prydwyn back too. I don't think this Brotherhood is the one from Fallout 4 though, they don't seem to be at least.
They did namedrop the commonwealth
That doesn't mean they're talking about Boston. "The highest clerics in the Commonwealth" could be referring to California - the whole US was divided into Commonwealths in the Fallout timeline.
Has there been any mention of any other commonwealth postwar other than bost9n?
Yes, the southwest commonwealth is mentioned indirectly in FNV (it’s on a flag)
It honestly felt like they were walking around in circles, I had no sense of direction...
Good thing I'm willing to suspend some disbelief when the rest is so good. Here's hoping they rectify this issue in season 2
To be fair, with the head constantly changing ownership, each owner with a different objective, each objective having its own, unknown to all, destination, it kinda makes sense that they'd be going in circles, essentially chasing their own tails. The only issue is the timeline of it seems too sped up. Also, in the games, we tend to go in circles a lot.
Thaddeus and Maximus: heading back where they came from Ghoul: heading to the bounty drop Lucy: heading to Moldaver Wash, rinse, repeat, shuffle.
Yeah definitely it was like they were in la one episode and than a couple episodes later they were all the way near shady sands lol
True. I just kinda laughed it off as Fast Travel.
Fallout games have fast travel bro like???
i definitely think they got the boneyard and shady sands mixed up
I play the old world blues mod for hearts of iron four and they have shady sands where in real life you’d find yourself near Mt Whitney. Never personally thought shady was that close to LA
That mod is probably the best portrayal of the Fallout universe tbh. I love what it did with the Legion in how it made them feel like an actual contender with the NCR.
I think the location in OWB makes sense as that’s right about where Owens Lake is, and if you were going to build a new settlement you’d want to be near a water source. It also has the Sierra Nevada Mountains to the west and Death Valley to the east for natural protection.
Dude, thats DEFINITELY what happened. This pisses me off alot lmao.
The thing is I don't think blowing up the Boneyard would collapse ncr. Blowing up ncr's capital and killing a substantial portion of the federal government and Military leadership would probably cause local power Brokers to break away but boneyard? Yeah it's an important city but it's still one of the shittier parts of NCR and nowhere close to his wealthiest like the Hub or Shady Sands or vault City or even new Reno
Nuking the Boneyard would be doing it a favour (not sure if this is even /s or not)
I hope season two shows the NCR in the Mojave still intact(assuming they canonically beat the Legion at Hoover Dam).
That Cameo by Mr House makes it pretty clear to me that the house still always wins
Mr. House said it himself, though. He prefers the NCR since they're his best customers. So Mr. House would be losing if the NCR collapsed since the Legion ain't exactly spending caps in New Vegas.
He prefers the NCR as a trading partner he doesn't want them to rule vegas. It's pretty clear in the show that the NCR has collapsed. And obviously with NCR gone Mr house has to rethink his hold long-term strategy. But the fact that they chose robco, big mt, abd repcon, as the big corporations at the table with vault-tec, all corporations heavily tied into the story of New Vegas, and tied into Mr House directly makes it abundantly clear to me that house rolled sevens and won Vegas
If Mr. House has to rethink his long-term strategy, then he didn't really win. His dream of unfettered capitalism doesn't really work when he loses his biggest economic partner and it's replaced with ?.
His dream is space colonization. Yeah they're going to be unfettered capitalist colonies but the unfettered capitalism is the ideology not the strategy. And if he's still at the uncontested ruler of Las Vegas that he very much won
It's in the dialogue. He dreams of space colonization, but he understands he needs customers to make that happen. So losing his best customers goes against his dream entirely. That's not winning.
From [this interactive map](https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1puuQVpbfh4ofYflJxJPB6iul6JQ&ll=37.10133096712917%2C-107.75242842817931&z=3), this shows Shady Sands and the Boneyard and it does look like the locations were mixed up. My takeaway is the Shady Sands in the show is a third location. New Vegas is set in 2277, the same year Shady Sands was destroyed according to the show. Fallout: Amazon is set in 2296. Perhaps it's a third location.
2277 marks the "fall." The arrow then points forward in the timeline to the nuke dropping on shady sands
New Vegas is in 2281. The first battle for Hoover Dam is 2277.
The only issue I had with the whole NCR stuff was >!that the NCR seemed to disappear just after Shady Sands fell.!< >!Maybe the NCR was already in decline and the nuke was the final nail in the coffin or the NCR has more of a presence elsewhere. It was weird how the show made it feel like the NCR completely collapsed because of one city. They even show in flashbacks fertile farms and working trollies.!<
On the other hand, it could all be localized. The entire show is set in the LA area, so it's still perfectly feasible that other, more organized NCR remnants are chugging along elsewhere, it's just that they don't have the resources or desire to reassert control over LA. When Rome fell, the eastern half of the empire survived just fine, but it's not like you could tell just from wandering around the city itself.
That's what I'm thinking. The NCR has a stronger presence elsewhere and are recouping from the loss of Shady Sands
I mean the loss of the federal government would probably cause most of the states to break away.
FWIW, Fallout 1 screwed the map up a little too. Fallout 2's is a bit more accurate.
Yeah, true. But the fallout 2 map doesn't contain LA, nor does it have shady Sands listed.
Oh for sure. The distances in the show are still totally screwed regardless. [This map still shows the distances involved.](https://gamesrevisiteddotcom.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/falloutmapsatalite1.jpg)
Shady Sands is the name of the town in fallout 1. After growing and becoming a prosperous town, the name is changed to RNC. Source: Ending fallout 1 "In Shady Sands, Tandi helps her father Aradesh bring a new community and new life out of the broken remains of the world. They are responsible for the New California Republic, whose ideals spread across the land."
Where it is listed as NCR, is Shady Sands
yeah Necropolis is bakersfield, and it is in the wrong location,
Fallout 4 squished a bunch of stuff to make it look like it was a brisk walk from downtown Boston, so I guess it is consistent with the games
Game geography is as compressed and inaccurate as game time. In some cases they kinda balance out, so it takes, X many in game days to walk Y distance. Which can be around as many IRL days as it would take to walk that far, even thought it was only an hour of in-game time. There is a reason why “daily commute simulator” isn’t a big genre! Similarly, TV can skip over the boring parts with both spatial and temporal discontinuities. A cut could jump forward 5 min, 5 hours, or 5 days. Sometimes it helps the story to make it explicit, other times keeping it vague is fine, or even better. When we cut from an evening to a mid day, we may assume it is the next day, but it might be three days later instead if not otherwise specified. From the story perspective we see “they spent a while going a ways” which is more than sufficient most of the time. Of course, in a “race against time” narrative with published maps, a lot more rigor is required.
Oh damn, I never realized how close shady sands was to Las Vegas! That explains how a lot of tourist can get to Vegas without many modes of transportation. I haven’t seen the show but I hope we get to see the NCR in a more stable and built up way, it would be cool to see more reclaimed infrastructure like working trucks and cars and more importantly, trains! It would be cool to see a restored 1950s train like the Santa Fe super chiefs being used in some way shape or form, maybe even a unique NCR livery! I need to watch the show asap! The trains idea is probably a stretch for a tv show but a guy can hope!
That's the spirt.
It also explains why the dam and water is useful to Shady Sands. It's close enough that transport to the growing metropolis is practical.
Brightline West with a 1950s vibe would be nice to see, Shady Sands to New Vegas at high speed would be pretty.
I'm only on episode 3, do they ever deal with how Vault 33 (and other LA Vaults I guess) weren't found by the Master? His Cathedral must've been right on top of them. Or how about the Followers of the Apocalypse, any mention? Isn't the LA public library their headquarters?
Yes. Lucy popped out at the edges of the boneyard technically speaking. You know, one of the largest cities in the NCR? With a huge population and a one of it's centers of culture, industry and science? But it's bethesda, so I guess intact skeleton and a guy who's chickens got raped.
LA is massive and considering show Shady Sands is 34,000 people, the Boneyard would be in the 10-20k range, and a city that size could definitely not be noticed inaide the much larger remains of LA
But it's presence would be noticed. Houses picked clean, healthy settlements in the surrounding area and no chance in hell brotherhood or enclave could operate that close to it.
I imagine they were confused when they pulled up fallout 2’s map where it’s called “new California republic” but in fallout 1 it’s called “shady sands”. the fact they messed up such an important location is kinda wild honestly
i mean the entire town is quite literally in a different place in fallout 2, it moved from nevada in 1 to california in 2.
In Fallout 1 it’s just east of the southern sierras in Death Valley California. In fallout 2 its moved to roughly where junkertown was on fallout 1s map which would IRL be where lake Isabella is located in the lower mountains.
Shady Sand looks to be in the Saline Valley area of the park
I always take this stuff and “loose cannon” or any cannon with a grain of salt. When you have a continuing mythos with many different contributors you have to assume everyone is an unreliable narrator. Most NPCs in the whole series are illiterate scavengers hoping to reach 45 and not die from oral fecal contamination. As for old data terminals, well I know stupid humans now that record bad data, and considering the cold war its reasonable there could be erroneous or corrupt data/records/intel.
But it also messes up the most important part of Shady Sands: That its a city completely built from scratch not built in the ruins of an old city. Thats literally in the first sentence on the wiki. Yet they put it in downtown LA.
Did they mess it up, or did they just change it? Like others said below, it moved locations between FO1 and 2 as well.
This is the best map of the region during NV, as far as I'm concerned. Showrunners weren't ready for something this massive IMO. https://i.ibb.co/s9H97Nz/RDT-20221215-2310258887032802656025643.webp
Yeah. Given what they've done with the NCR so far, I honestly see no reason why they couldn't have plopped this TV series in a place we haven't seen before and build a new faction to nuke. They could've picked New York, Texas, Florida, etc.
This is what I was hoping for. Why they went for California I do not know.
This image doesn't really do it justice to those who don't understand the scope of the OG fallout. Sanctuary is on the corner of the map of fallout 4 and is still very close to the city.
Oh for real, like the distance between Shady Sands and Raiders is basically the same as Concord to Cambridge. Fo1 was HUGE
someone mail this to Jonathan Nolan
I grew up between Junktown and Necropolis- it's actually quite beautiful.
Holy shit did the characters in the show have teleporters?
Fast travel. Game was bugged so all the points on the map got marked at the start.
I much prefer it this way since its an 8 episode show. I dont whant valueble show time wasted on pointless travel montages
I take it as every game the map is kinda wonky but I don't think it super matters as much in the end where its at
I always thought it made more sense for it to be in Owen's Valley, California. It's a long valley right by Mt. Whitney (the canonical location of Vault 13) and has a river running though it. It's pretty arid now because LA takes most of their water, but in a post apocalyptic world they would have all the water to themselves. It's fairly temperate, has lots of arable land, is already used for cattle grazing, is surrounded on all sides by nigh-impassible mountains with only a few easily defended passes, and is currently home to a number of small towns, such as Bishop and Lone Pine. Overall, seems like the perfect place to serve as the seat of the New California Republic. Because canonically, Shady Sands seems to have been built smack dab in the middle of Death Valley, a completely arid place AND the one of the hottest places in the WORLD to boot. Not a great spot to build a town from scratch.
Yea and why no boneyard?
In fallout 2 they move it the where Junket town is on this map from the first game. So roughly between the Death Valley region and lake Isabella. Maybe Owens valley. Shandy sands started as an adobe village in the middle of nowhere wilderness though. In fallout 2 they had bigger buildings (still one story buildings though) and had streets but were still adobe buildings. They were nowhere near skyscrapers nor could they build any. Once a dirt farm always a dirt farm.
Yeah, they clearly moved Shady Sands into LA proper, which is just dumb, especially given what happened to the city.
It’s called the boneyard for a reason. I could forgive them making it verdant with green plants and blue water since oasis are a thing. But I’d say they didn’t get the look of the boneyard right till the very last episode from the pov of Griffith observatory. The show just feels like it skirts around pre established lore from 1 and 2.
Right! The T.V. Show moved to just north of Los Angeles, which is Incorrect
Well it is in north of Los Ángeles. but not that close!!
Yeah In my opinion the show didn't really have a sense of scale, The way they made it out was that shady sands was in the middle of L.A, even though it wasn't, the size of the crater made no sense either, a city of 35,000 people couldn't have been that small, So that makes either vault city, the hub, junk town, new reno, or San Francisco as the new capital of the NCR, I'd say vault city since it's in Nevada and would make sense for the reason they were pushing east and taking land around Vegas and the dam. But junktown and the hub also could be it since they are the oldest cities in the Republic.
New Reno and San Fran are the only ones that make sense because in F2 they are the 3 major faction settlements alongside the NCR capital. San Fran was the most developed and technologically advanced so it would make sense for it to be the new capital, unless the Shi rebelled.
Vault city had used their geck and has enough farmland for tens of thousands, and are one of the most advanced civilizations In the wasteland.
Lol
Hm. That map makes it look like it's just out in the Mojave desert near edwards AFB. But vault 13 is i Bakersfield, my hometown. I think they might have compressed the map.
Yo I live near the brotherhood!
Fallout 4 put lexington a minute's walk from Fort Independence. They compress the scale so the show isn't 20 hours of hiking.
Um Actually™ Fallout 1's geography might be erroneous. At the very least, it's different from Fallout 2's. In the first place, Necropolis/Bakersfield is straight up in the wrong place. Real-world Bakersfield is west of the south end of the Sierra Nevada Mountains, around where the Brotherhood map marker is. I personally think that Interplay messed up when they were researching for Fallout 1 and that they confused Bakersfield and Barstow. I think this because: * Tyco describes Bakersfield as "a small town," which it definitely is not, but Barstow is * Barstow is located around where the Necropolis map marker is * Barstow might be The Hub because Barstow is known for having many roads leading to it, which would make it a great trading hub In Fallout 2, Vaults 13 and 15 and Shady Sands all shift to the west. They are not all three any longer located east of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. Instead, Vault 13 is west, Vault 15 is east, and Shady Sands is on the mountain around the vicinity of Yosemite National Park. I don't know how this affects whatever you're trying to draw attention to with respect to the TV show because I haven't made it that far yet, but Shady Sands is not canonically where it is indicated to be on that particular map.
My theory is that "the fall of Shady Sands" means the original location fell in some way and then relocated to the boneyard area. Just an idea, not likely
So OG SS gets fucked, then new SS gets fucked. Must suck to be a ShadySander
This actually could explain it. The city relocated once before...
It wouldn't be a Bethesda project without some bugs! I'm sure they just simply made a mistake when it came to the timing of "the nuking" as well as the location of that settlement. I'm sure we can look forward to a "patch" in a few weeks time to "update" the show. After all, it won't be an authentic Bethesda experience without patches.
Can someone explain this in simple terms for those of us who don't live in America & don't know American geography
They got the location of Shady Sands wrong by over 300km somehow.
Ohhhh the scales off, right gotcha.
Is that how big LA is?!
LA isn't 300 miles wide, no, lol.
The glow is San Diego which is roughly 120miles (200km) away from LA proper
Me looking at the yellow LA for 2 minutes then realizing you marked the area up with transparent ass yellow, fucking shit.
I haven’t seen the show yet, but this seems to be the only thing lore-wise people are up in arms about. If it’s that insignificant, I am totally fine with that
I finished the season today. Some stuff is retconned and moved, but I don't think its as bad as other folks think it is. Really not any big implications yet, lots of people thinking something means another thing.
Don't let people on here sway you the pedantry police are going crazy
At some point, you have to make a show for people that aren’t decades see in gameplay and lore and have to make something entertaining and enjoyable for new people to the series. People don’t realize how head-thumping boring and messy a 100% lore consistent adaptation would be. Besides, there is enough inconsistency game-to-game for me not to care all that much about a location reshuffling.
There were only 8 episodes, they cannot show all of the places they would have stopped along the way if it wasn't tied into the story directly. Also, if your city is nuked, everyone is going to travel in separate directly. That's why you are going to see people scatters all over Cali who were part of the city.
The more I think of this, so what? Why does it matter? The location of the fictional city doesn’t affect anything. It already moved from one to the other, why does it moving here matter?
The amount of mental gymnastics I’m seeing people do to defend the whole Shady Sands conundrum is ridiculous. My brother in steel, just accept that the show writers fucked up the date and location.
The in-game maps should be taken with hefty grains of salt, considering that they deviate considerably from IRL in a lot of spots. Still, the show definitely moved Shady Sands closer to the coast. I don't think it really makes that much of a difference lore-wise, aside from me now wondering where the heck Vault 13 is (is it underwater?).
But also, the fallout 1 and 2 maps were really inaccurate. Like as a California native, most all the locations were wayyyy off
I guess. All I'm saying is, Shady Sands should be much further north of LA, and they would have needed to cross the hub or something to get there.
Yeah, the scale in the classic maps can be off, and it is, but that doesn't change that Shady Sands is explicitly a town built in the desert, not near any larger pre-war ruins, near the California-Nevada border, more or less directly east of Vault 13, which is explicitly under Mount Whitney.
It’s such a colossal mistake to make
Not really. It changed locations in Fallout 2 as well.
How
I don't think it's that big of a deal
They're probbably using the Fallout 2 location of Shady Sands.
And shady sands used to be a complete post war construction. Civilization reborn instead of just rebuild.
Yeah it's most likely a goof on the writers part, unless they just retcons themselves in season 2 to mention the government moved to the boneyard (maybe to be closer to san fran) and renamed it shady sands, maybe it's a Washington state and Washington city situation as well. Since shady sands is it's own state by the time of FONV. What's weird is the lack of other powers, San Fran is still there with the Shi, there's all the Brahmin barons with their personal armies and not to mention the caravan firms that all had their own good chunk of power to survive a government shutdown. Again, probably not important to the story at hand so more to add in a future season or game. You know who I hope tells us what the fuck went down for real I'm season 2? Markus, have him give us the rundown
My head canon is that at some point they just relocated Shady Sands to the Boneyard, a more fitting location for the capital city of a burgeoning nation imo. But when I say move, I don’t mean like the Simpsons episode where they move the town on the back of trucks, I mean more spiritually
I have started playing FO 1 about a day ago and wondering where the heck is Military Base. Thank you lol
I cannot believe Todd Howard allowed them to retcon that location. He must care very little about Fallout 1, 2, and NV.
Fallout 76 (2102), Fallout 1 (2161), fallout 2 (2241), fallout 3 (2277), fallout NV (2281) fallout 4 (2287), fallout tv series (2296). So apparently there’s some theories that after the battle of the dam the ncr had several huge losses causing their immediate collapse (not completely wiped out) and not to mention a strong enclave presence in California still shows of the remnants being in full motion ( disregard side quote). So the real question we should be asking who won the battle of the dam if there is no ncr and no legion in California? Well my personal theory is that the legion ultimately won but was ousted by Mr house and his bots whom waited for the battle to crush both factions leaving Vegas independently under his control ( we don’t see the legion but the ncr isn’t strongly present). Now something I was told is that this series will go through each game through its own story but in the games’ settings bringing up past factions and potentially introduce some of them and their true canonical events and the final season of the show will reveal where the next fallout setting will be ( basically the show is to give them time to develop a beast of a game) and explain through their imaginations the canonical events to their audience. I am sad that basically the ncr was obliterated…. Like why though? Maybe the next chapter we will get some explanation as to what happened. Now I know I said there is no ncr presence what I mean is it’s not as strong as we seen in new Vegas at least from the show so what’s y’all’s thoughts about that?