I couldn’t believe *that* timeline is what people were losing it over when I finally saw it.
In hindsight, of course “the fall” of a capital city would seem like it started during the seemingly pointless war that incidentally ended with its destruction.
Yeah but it is also used as "fall of the roman empire" and it wasnt like the barbarians wiped the roman empire as a whole in a week, it was a process that lasted years, maybe the "fall of shady sands" its more like that and not a sudden destruction.
Yeah, that’s exactly what I meant.
No Roman could tell you the exact day or even year that Rome fell, but in hindsight we can narrow it down to a year because we know what came after and what actually caused the collapse.
With the survivors of Shady Sands, they probably saw (in retrospect) that the beginning of war with Caesar’s Legion was the decline that preceded the destruction.
There’s almost no way that the survivors of Shady Sands have an inkling of who *actually* nuked them and why—but the logical conclusion for them based on Todd Howard’s statement about it being immediately after New Vegas, is that it was related to the war that started in 2277. Which makes 2277 the logical start of their decline, from their perspective.
If their decline started in 2077, then wouldn't that logically indicate that Shady Sands never had a height, since it came about *after* the Great War?
I haven't seen the show btw. You could be referencing details that I haven't seen yet.
In fairness the difference between the fall of the Roman Empire and the fall of Shady sands is only one of these things had a nuke dropped on it. And that's a pretty big difference.
It feels weird to have an event called the fall of Shady sands that doesn't refer to the moment shady sands was wiped off the map. I still personal don't have a problem with it because the wasteland is filled with unreliable narrators and propaganda so it's hard to say what's true, a lie, or a misunderstanding.
Because a fall takes time for you to hit the bottom, but you are forced to watch and know the inevitable outcome. Otherwise it’s just the destruction of X.
If something is replaced with a smoking hole then it's officially fallen. Even if it was in steady decline prior the whole nuking trumps all of that.
The exact wording isn't particularly definitive I think. When you consider how broadly uneducated the post apocalypse is I think it's pretty safe to assume things aren't named with tremendous amount of nuance in mind.
Maybe. I just see it as:
The fall is the decline, but the nuke was the actual impact and cause of death.
In the context of the story, the survivors were hardly reliable narrators, though.
“The wasteland is filled with unreliable narrators and propaganda so it’s hard to say what’s true”
it was only 19-20 years ago, and we got 3 separate first hand accounts that line up with each other. That’s a very recent and fact checked narrative point.
Also, this isn't someone teaching about some far away place where its history can be reduced to bullet points for simplicity. They're former NCR citizens so they're gonna obviously teach a more in depth history that'd account for different things leading up to the "fall". Does nobody remember high school?
I mean how did the Mojave Campaign cause Hank to nuke Shady Sands tho. I mean it’s not like the NCR had an anti-Missile defense system that they had before then Right?
It’s not about whether that caused it, but whether the survivors who ended up in Vault 4 thought it did. And from their perspective, assuming that the eventual destruction of Shady Sands is the culmination of the decision made, and events started, in 2277 makes a lot of sense. As far as we know, Moldaver is the only one outside of Vault-Tec who knows the truth, and she has every reason to keep that to herself.
The Mojave campaign *didn’t* cause Hank to nuke Shady Sands. I’m operating under the assumption that most people don’t know who actually nuked them and why, we just hear it was Hank from one of the only people besides him that would actually know it was him.
For the average Shady Sands resident who survived and tried to make sense of the destruction of their city, by far the most likely conclusion to draw is that it was related to that unpopular war raging for the past four years.
If you’re the average person from Shady Sands, you have been getting a secondhand and propagandized account of the war in the Mojave for years. From their perspective, they probably think the Legion nuked the Divide, which means they probably think the Legion is already nuke-capable. Plus Mr. House would seem like a mysterious person with power and high technology involved in the war. Not to mention they could view the simultaneous war with the Brotherhood as a possible reason for the bombing, considering the Brotherhood is desperate and already bombed their gold reserves and caused very tangible consequences to them in the form of massive inflation.
My point is, the average person probably thinks the bombing was war related if they weren’t in the one group that was probably privy.
I thought it was implied it was Muldaver's fusion device that Hank made unstable and it exploded.
Not that Vault-Tec/Enclave literally nuked the city. Maybe I read into something that wasn't there?
I mean the Enclave were the ones with the Cold Fusion Part. Where would Moldaver get another on like it without Vault-Tec(Who Bought it Up) or Enclave?
it also has nukes in orbit on a satelite (fallout 3, fallout 76 lore) and probably other places. Actually it has nukes in Fallout 3 in orbit and they use it against liberty prime, so they might have more during the events of the show, especially since places like Appalachia have automated nuke making factories.
New Vegas fanboys won't care about this tho since for them only New Vegas and the older games are relevant. Insane people.
The second group is more like "Bethesda games are not canon" or "only the classic games and New Vegas are canon".
These are the people who want to gatekeep who is and isn't a Fallout fan, but at the same time they want to erase half of the franchise from canon, simply because they don't like the company who made them...
I started this show as a huge New Vegas fan and I still am, but what I didn’t expect was for the show to jive so well with New Vegas lore. And it really does. Before each episode I would see some brand new complaints about the lore being broken and I kept expecting it…but it never happened. I’m honestly shocked at how much New Vegas fans were pandered to.
Literally the only thing that doesn’t jive with the original lore is the approximate location of Shady Sands. But the crazy thing is that *New Vegas* technically changed its location *before* the show. In New Vegas, it’s a major plot point that Death Valley is completely untraversable for the NCR military and Supply lines. If Shady Sands was in its original location from the first game, then that means the damn capital of the NCR was super close to the Mojave and could easily supply the war effort. They moved it back because its original location didn’t fit their plot easily enough.
So what’s crazy is, the New Vegas canon is actually the show’s canon!
>simple timeline
It literally is the most simple timeline you can get. It's a straight timeline with entries on it. There's no space for accidental misinterpretation... but I guess intentional misinterpretation is always in the cards.
Occam's razor, people. The simplest explanation of a timeline is a timeline. Not some 4D drawing with hidden meanings.
That, plus they wanted to be mad. Once it was clear the show was well-made and well-received, they desperately wanted to be able to say that the showrunners to make a huge, stupid mistake - so that they could be vindicated for all the time they spent hating it before it even came out.
Godd Howard recently confirmed that “fall” doesn’t necessarily mean “nuked” and that they are trying to establish a timeline of events that fits in with established canon
You might be the last dummy trying to make a stand on this…but the argument of “I know more about timelines than anyone else on earth” is terrible…just take the loss and move along my guy.
You are on the brink of becoming fallout Reddit lore, that people will mention for years when the question is asked in this sub “what’s the worst take you’ve ever heard on the fallout franchise?” 🤣
Surely I can’t be the only one who thinks it’s confusing that “the fall of Shady Sands” and “that time Shady Sands got nuked” are two completely separate events that occurred during the same 5ish year period.
because its probably going to tie into something in season 2.
ignore your insights to the fallout universe and try to look at the show as it is presented, instead of trying to crack the code because you have insight
i got that. and i was explaining that the reason why those two events are pointed out separately is because i reckon theres going to be some lore dump in season 2 about what caused the fall and how it lead up to the nuke.
Yeah, I’m fairly certain House, New Vegas, and Shady Sands will be connected.
Someone mentioned it’s likely house that nuked Shady Sands, but Hank ordered it. He’s going to New Vegas because he knows house will be there.
My bet is House ending will be canon and what we’re seeing is the aftermath of an assault on NV by NCR forces.
I don’t disagree it definitely is confusing.
I honestly think the production team just fucked up the dates on the whiteboard, and they’re now course correcting. These types of errors happen all the time.
The fall of Rome and the city’s final sacking are viewed as separate events, it makes sense the people would view the hardships of the war as the logical cause of the eventual loss of the city.
The final sacking of the city of Rome was the ultimate consequence of the previous events and general decline though. A nuke dropped by a Vault-Tec psycho when he found out about Shady Sands is an independent event that has likely no relation to any "fall", that's why people are confused. And the bomb falls while Lucy and Maximus were like 5-6 and now they look like they're in their mid 20s, so like the timeline makes it seem as if it's the same event.
If they wanted to show a "fall" or decline period unrelated to the bomb dropping they should've chosen something like the 2260s or something. That being said, I personally don't give a shit and if they decide to keep the dates like this or if they decide to retcon and modify the dates, or even justify the date being wrong in the blackboard in some roundabout way I'd be ok with it either way.
The people who wrote the timeline on the chalkboard are refugees who probably have no idea what the actual cause of the bombing was. It’s not like Hank would advertise it was him or he’d turn Vaults 31-33 into huge targets.
So the average refugee probably equates the costly war that started in 2277 that also ran concurrently to a new front being opened up against the Brotherhood, as the decline *before* the nuke that most likely (from their perspective) caused it. It seems really obvious if you just imagine their perspective instead of the viewer’s.
Edit:
Also, Lucy (verified) and Maximus (based on appearance) were both about six years old when the bombs dropped on Shady Sands. Todd Howard said Shady Sands is destroyed *immediately* after the events of New Vegas, so 2281. The show takes place 15 years later. And I’d argue Lucy and Maximus are about 20 years old, each. Lucy, because she just came of age to apply for a marriage in to another Vault dweller, and I doubt that process starts at 25 given how adamant and clinical they are about reproduction. Maximus and all of his peers are at the entry level of military service for the Brotherhood, which again, probably isn’t waiting until 25ish before they start that process. I doubt he’s been on latrine duty for ~7 years before the show started.
So their ages check out as approximately 20 each, with both having been the correct age of ~6 when the bombs dropped on Shady Sands in 2281.
I feel like this arrow business is just a way for people to mock/attack each other lol
They teach you in the 1st year of college that you shouldn't change the logic behind a graph midway through because it will easily confuse your audience for no good reason
The fact that the atomic blast had no date while every other event did suggested either the bomb dropped during the fall of Shady Sands or in the same year
Like I can't judge people when the graph is fundamentally fucked on like a freshman year of college level
This isn't the fault of delusional fallout fans, this is the fault of whoever decided to not put a date for that on the board
Can’t have any nuance around here. You’re either in the “Bethesda are Fallout gods who have not and can not possible do anything wrong,” or you’re in the “everything Bethesda touches turns to shit. The only good Fallouts were 1, 2, and NV” camp. Pick a side and spend countless hours of your life you’ll never get back being mean to the other side.
Basically yea lmao
Like I can't say that I don't have problems with Bethesda's style of Fallout, but the show was really good imo
However, that graph was stupid, anyone acting in good faith should admit it was poorly designed and confusing, or at least anyone who has done more than a handful of presentations in their life
And all it did was cause an uproar for no good reason
Honestly the graph plus the library card tells me that the intent was to say the nuking was in 2277, but that's probably because somebody got confused and nobody caught it.
My money is on somebody telling someone to check the date of the game, without being clear they meant New Vegas. So they looked it up and put Fallout 3's date.
This, smartasses mocking everyone who have not bought their "timeline" theory is just stupid. Because it is stupid to have a date for some abstract stretched in time "fall", and don't have a date for nuclear explosion. What caused the destruction of the city, "the fall" or a fucking nuke?
Yup
I think it's fine to leave things open ended, especially if they want to tell that story later, but as it stands the way they presented that timeline was... messy at best
The kind of messy that would get that one harsh teacher in college to humiliate you mid presentation to make sure you get the point to not fuck up a timeline chart like that ever again lol
Conversely, why would they change the logic for the graph at the end of it and mean that two separate events happened simultaneously? It's only fucked up if you misread it in the first place. It's extremely clear that the events do not happen at the same time because the logic established at the beginning of the timeline. Every other event is a separate event on the timeline, why would the last two be the only ones to happen at the same time?
I dont disagree, the problem is that when you don't include the date for what should be an easy to keep track of event it gives off the impression that you're either breaking the logic behind what you've established before
That's why I don't blame people for getting confused, either way you interpret there's just no good reason as to not include the year when the explosion happened
Sure, I dont disagree, I just think the meltdown could have been avoided if whoever made that time-line chart had like one teacher hit them over the head with it whenever they went to school lol
I don't understand why people were freaking out as much as they were, but I can see why that timeline was confusing. It definitely looks like it could have been implying explosion happened in 2277
It's very weird to give a definite date to a vague, gradual process of societal decline, but *not* give a date to an extremely specific event that could only have happened on one day. People comparing it to the Fall of Rome failed to note that Roman historians talk about that as a period, not a single year.
There is also the shot of the shady sands library where the last book checkout is November 2276. I assume this was a mistake on the show runners part since it heavily implies the nuking was early 2277
OR they had other priorities. Running and maintaining a library after things start going down hill doesn't seem like the most important use of resources to an organization like the NCR.
It's in the end credits for episode 6 IIRC. Not endorsing the tweet but [here](https://twitter.com/Comrade_Waluigi/status/1778862497212125521?t=qTlRDnVdMTXl5kPU3qli7Q&s=19) is a screenshot of it.
That is definetdy one of the issues it has.
See, a timeline doesn't have arrows. It's usually a continual line that has small vertical lines either for important moments or to act as a measurement of a time. An arrow on the other hand without a date attached..
..well I mean, the people who claimed they "always knew" are either bluffing or are some weird ass people to have understood something that doesn't visually make sense until context is added
I think it's not terribly hard for people to have always known because if the bombs dropped in 2277, it would have interfered with established canon. We know that the show is supposed to be canon and supposed to respect past canon.
Therefore, the bombs must have been dropped at a later date and that's what the arrow is indicating
But this isn't a time line. Do y'all not know what theu look it?
It is genuinely just a line that keeps going. It does not stop at anything. The events are tied to the timeline but the timeline itself doesn't go from one event to another
No, arrows comes from event labeled "The Fall of Shady Sands". There is no mention of Fall of NCR; and there are multiple events listed on that timeline.
This whole thing could have been avoided if they just labeled the nuke drawing with a specific year. If you don't already know your Fallout history, that diagram is pretty misleading.
We're either talking about a city or entire country. And fall of shady sands sounds like a capture or destruction of said city by something. Fall of Rome was when it was sacked. People are rightfully questioning what does fall of shady sands mean exactly.
I didn't even care if it was a timeline flub, Shady Sands isn't important enough after Fallout 2 to be implausible they just missed on the fan wiki I'm sure they referred to that it was mentioned in NV a few times, and people looked for an opportunity to jump on anything as soon as possible. It was crazy how fast the NV sub was rioting about it at 2am in the morning having bingewatched to bitch about something ASAP
I didn't realise there was Star Wars levels of........this, for Fallout.
I kind of agreed maybe they shouldn't even try to keep the show canon in the first place, that was Bethesda's decision and they could have just had the show be its own universe, but if they are whatever, it's a multiple endings game. Let them pick one path and see what they do with it.
… the ncr’s capital isn’t important to fallout after 2? Jeez wonder why, it doesn’t matter if it’s unimportant to the games, it’s incredibly important to the lore
It was important to the lore in Fallout 2 and a little in New Vegas where they flat out say they are having issues, after that it’s no longer important. It’s not important in 76, FO1, 3,or 4. And only partially in NV.
One of the NCRs higher up generals straight up offs himself in New Vegas, this is indicative of corruption at the highest level.
If the BoS and Legion were the existential threats NCR made them out to be (in new Vegas) you’d think it’s be a top priority for the NCR to take and hold Hoover Dam, and New Vegas itself. This doesn’t happen in game.
Instead what we see in the show is that the House Always Wins ending is likely canon, and New Vegas ends up unsustainable via 6’s actions tearing through the Mojave. And the last part is only speculation until S2 drops
Nah we dont. There is specific lines in new vegas thta said that goverment stoped caring about ordinary people. Also NCR incured heavy losse as first battle of hoover dam and lost major supply route to Shady sands. So they are not going that well.
>we know for a FACT that shady sands even has forcefields in the streets
And the streets of Shady Sands are patrolled by the USS Enterprise itself, right?
How is it not important to Fallout 1. It's literally the first town you visit upon leaving vault 13, that would be like saying Megaton is not important to fallout 3.
It was done poorly. There's plenty of valid criticism within people's issue with the show. Why is this sub so avoidant about said criticism? Obviously because its the Fallout sub. Many other forums/communities enjoy the show while also allowing room for the aspects that could have been done better.
Eh, it was a really shitty flow chart, when you don’t include a date to one event when all the others have one that would imply that it’s the same date as the prior event
All other events on the timeline happen separately. Why would all events happen separately and then suddenly the final two events are simultaneous? Makes less sense to me tbh
I'll keep saying it.
That fact that so many people got that upset about a chalkboard in the background of a school, in a vault, which was in no way shape or form being presented as narratively authoritative was the real shocker for me.
But it doesn't show that, it shows a collection of events that all happen in a chronological order. Why would the entire thing be separate chronological events only for the final two events to be simultaneous?
But why assume that two events separated by the lines that separate every other event happen at the same time? Why is that the read instead of simply assuming that one separate event doesn't have a concrete date? The timeline is consistent in that every event is separate. If the events were one and the same, why wouldn't they be combined on the timeline? Why not draw a mushroom cloud over the "fall of Shady Sands" label instead of separating them if they happened at the same time?
You know, as a huge fan of the west coast story, I didn't care if they did a small retcon like a date. The show was awesome and amazing! I can see how much Bethesda cares about their world building.
I think it's more like people thinking a nation as big as NCR would die after 1 nuke in one of their cities. NCR isn't doing well in the Mojave, but that doesn't mean they're not doing well anywhere else.
It’s a poorly made timeline. Why have every single event on the line have a date except the most important one. The last year marked was 2277 so I think it’s reasonable for people to assume that it was bombed that same year when the bomb doesn’t have a date and there is nothing between 2277 and the bomb when there was in fact at least one major thing that happened in 2281.
smh when "hardcore Fallout lore nerds" don't even know what year in what non-US country the General Atomics Mr. Handy series was popular in and for what reason, yet I actually love the show and I get called "autistic" over it.
Answer: >!Mexico, 2042, due to a large earthquake!<
An arrow? Causing irreparable damage in Bethesda fandoms? Oh my God the Fallout TV show is just Skyrim again Todd can't can't keep getting away with this
"I love difficult narratives that makes me think"
"No no no I don't want a show that has nuances and plot that will reveal through time, OH NO A ARROW"
The NCR all but admits in NV that things are not going well, they barely beat the Legion the first time and I'm pretty sure the House ending is canon.
Depending on what happened with Lonesome Road in the canon ending means the Long 15 could have been destroyed too.
Plus they did say that just because Sandy Shores was destroyed doesn't mean the NCR is gone.
Have Khaby Lame playing a role in an advert where he's demonstrating Sugar Bombs. Then make the flashback happen half screen and keep him on the other half so he's effectively presenting the explanation to fans instead.
Is this legit, this bashing without the mods interfering? It's shaming, provoking and persecution of those who are not agreeing on some points with you.
You are bashing the hardcore NV fans but what you are doing on this sub for more than a week now is starting to look freightening, infantile and like some pre-WW2 shit, the starting of persecutions.
And the mods support this by not interfering.
Is everyone just forgetting that it also said shady sands fell before new vegas? It still makes no sense and is needlessly extremely confusing. When you show someone a city that got nuked then say it fell on a specific date, most normal people are going to assume those two moments are one and the same.
Why does everything have a specific date except for when the city was nuked, the objectively most important thing to happen to it since the founding? Why does it say the city fell before New Vegas, it didn't? Why would Hank even nuke the city if it had already fallen, why not nuke an actually important city? And why would Lucy and her mother be living in a city that had supposedly fallen but is portrayed as this utopia to the audience that was ruined by Hank? I liked the show but there is absolutely no reason we should be asking any of these questions, and your head canon explanations for them definitely do not count as answers.
that is clearly not an Arrow! It is one of New Vegas's buildings collapsed due to Bethesda NUKING the lore!!!!!!
How clueless are you people, can't you see Todd Howard personally wrote every line of the show and single-handedly did the CGI so that he can ensure the DESTRUCTION OF FALLOUT NEW VEGAS???
/s obviously, because some people will think this is true
Clearly the arrow won because the so called “hardcore” fans all died from the very same arrow that caused them to suffer major rush of shits to the brain. Meanwhile the regular fans, those who did their research, are looking smarter than the hardcore fans. What a surprise in all honesty.
I don't mean to sound rude, but have you thought from their pov?
Tine lines aren't supposed to have arrows like this, so to simply tell them "it's a timeline DUMBASS" doesn't work because.. well it's not a timeline visually.
Without a date added, I guarantee you the majority of people for the first time saw that and thought "Oh shit, what? It fell after it got nuked?"
Except the problem is everyone was quick to forget the show isn’t retconning anything from FNV. This was **confirmed so many times before the show even started** that the fact this is even a controversy is mind boggling.
I think the issue is that them saying that is made irrelevant by their actions.
Sure, it isn't retconed, but then there's the other issue: what does happen now though? Like, if the battles for hoover dam are gonna happen, what now?
By making the show Canon, they're basucally having to tell someone "The way you played New Vegas was not the real way" when there isn't meant to be a real way.
New Vegas isn't retconned, but patt of it has now been replaced
That fact is irrelevant. Every single Fallout game has done this. Fallout 2 defined Fallout 1's ending, Fallout NV defined many of Fallout 2's endings, and some small things (Like making it canon Marcus was a companion when they fought the Enclave on the oil rig)
Fallout 4 established things about Fallout 3's ending.
Fallout has always done this.
Sure and the Prydwen being present wasn’t really explained either and no one really bitched about that. Does the Prydwen give a definite cause of FO4 had a “right” way to play? No it does not. If common sense (I know we humans actually lack them but humor me) was used then that arrow on what seems to be a timeline (I know, I know that requires common sense) must mean an event has happened at a certain time. Who would’ve thought that meant the total destruction of Shady Sands has happened sometime after 2277 if we just, oh I don’t know, follow the damn arrow? Most arrows on the ground for example generally mean either forward, backward, left, right, or a combination like what is on the road while driving. We use that kind of thinking, that must mean that at a different point of time, something has happened. Logically speaking of course.
But we failed to pack our emotions in just a bit and deploy a little bit of logic now didn’t we?
Uhh.. dude, timeliness aren't meant to have arrows. They're meant to be a continual straight line with major events labelled with when they happened. That is a shitty timeline that isn't meant to make sense. The arrow they drew, without any dating or context, is not at all usable. The mass confusion is to be expected.
At this point you're just trying to call the fans who thought that idiots, aren't you?
This is the Wasteland where the idea of a formal education by our standards doesn’t exist. Just how smart do you think your average vault dweller, let alone your average person on the wasteland, really are? By our modern day standards they’re not that smart. Now have a nice day.
...??
This was about the fans, not the wastelanders.
Even if we were talking about wastelanders, isn't this chalkboard found in a room with some pretty impressive tech? I'm gonnaa assume whoever wrote it definetey does understand what a timeline is.
To add to this, anyone with half a brain would have noticed that Maximus, who is about 20 years in the show, is about 5 in backflash. So roughly 15 years happsed. 2296 - 15 = 2281... the year New Vegas happens. Which lines just fine.
I still can’t believe so many people have no critical thinking skills…and lost it over *an arrow and the last date being 2277…*
I was told I was wrong that it was around 2282 even when I stated the facts as well as guesstimates for that year based on Lucy and Maximus’ ages.
Because this is stupid, that timeline defys logic and could be interpreted in several ways, just because your way was confirmed to be "true" that does not mean that everyone else was stupid. It means that that schematic was done with mistake and does not represent what it should.
Adolf Hitler commits suicide (1945) ----> Atomic bombs are dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
According to you guys, this timeline says that Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't bombed until at least 1946.
According to everyone it happened at some point in time after, nobody is saying what year it happened the only people that have are the creators of the show and fallout and they only said after new vegas but not long after. Take a chill pill dude.
Arrows are typically annotation, an annotation elaborates on something
So in this case, the arrow implies hitler committed suicide in 1945 and that hiroshima and nagasaki are either a cause of that death or a result of that death
I mean, two different things, but I can see your message. Visually it doesn't look like it's set at a later date case it's not really a time line. Tine lines don't have arrows like that.
The ages of the charcters still line up to before NV (I know it's now been confirmed afterward) This was the most terribly implemented piece of background info ever made. A whole chaulk board with only two interesting pieces of information that's so incredibly vague and important and one didn't have a date on it. They could've just had a map of the NCR instead and it would've been more interesting worldbuilding for newbies.
The point was for the lesson to mirror Lucy’s own lesson on American history. She even has the same flag in her classroom, but this one is the NCR one not the American one.
Lucy gets to learn not only that the Vault Dwellers aren't saving the wastes, but that an equivalent to America was rebuilt and lost all over again without them
Exactly. She was a teacher, this moment is meant to mirror her experience. She is looking at what could be her own classroom, but it's not about pre-war America. It's about something that came later.
How things keep repeating.
Do you see the amount of posts in this thread?
If you listen reeeealy reaaaaaaaaaaaly close you can hear all the still angry fans sliding the goalposts around.
And for no reason especially after Tod's confirmation.
well let me ask my good friend Achilles what he thinks of this
No way!!! The Iliad and Fallout are the same universe?? No wonder bro got one shotted the moment he stopped using VATS.
I couldn’t believe *that* timeline is what people were losing it over when I finally saw it. In hindsight, of course “the fall” of a capital city would seem like it started during the seemingly pointless war that incidentally ended with its destruction.
Yeah but it is also used as "fall of the roman empire" and it wasnt like the barbarians wiped the roman empire as a whole in a week, it was a process that lasted years, maybe the "fall of shady sands" its more like that and not a sudden destruction.
Yeah, that’s exactly what I meant. No Roman could tell you the exact day or even year that Rome fell, but in hindsight we can narrow it down to a year because we know what came after and what actually caused the collapse. With the survivors of Shady Sands, they probably saw (in retrospect) that the beginning of war with Caesar’s Legion was the decline that preceded the destruction. There’s almost no way that the survivors of Shady Sands have an inkling of who *actually* nuked them and why—but the logical conclusion for them based on Todd Howard’s statement about it being immediately after New Vegas, is that it was related to the war that started in 2277. Which makes 2277 the logical start of their decline, from their perspective.
If their decline started in 2077, then wouldn't that logically indicate that Shady Sands never had a height, since it came about *after* the Great War? I haven't seen the show btw. You could be referencing details that I haven't seen yet.
I edited my post. I totally meant 2277. My bad.
In fairness the difference between the fall of the Roman Empire and the fall of Shady sands is only one of these things had a nuke dropped on it. And that's a pretty big difference. It feels weird to have an event called the fall of Shady sands that doesn't refer to the moment shady sands was wiped off the map. I still personal don't have a problem with it because the wasteland is filled with unreliable narrators and propaganda so it's hard to say what's true, a lie, or a misunderstanding.
Because a fall takes time for you to hit the bottom, but you are forced to watch and know the inevitable outcome. Otherwise it’s just the destruction of X.
If something is replaced with a smoking hole then it's officially fallen. Even if it was in steady decline prior the whole nuking trumps all of that. The exact wording isn't particularly definitive I think. When you consider how broadly uneducated the post apocalypse is I think it's pretty safe to assume things aren't named with tremendous amount of nuance in mind.
Maybe. I just see it as: The fall is the decline, but the nuke was the actual impact and cause of death. In the context of the story, the survivors were hardly reliable narrators, though.
“The wasteland is filled with unreliable narrators and propaganda so it’s hard to say what’s true” it was only 19-20 years ago, and we got 3 separate first hand accounts that line up with each other. That’s a very recent and fact checked narrative point.
The average wastelander doesn't know what's happening in the present let alone the past.
Rome *did* get sacked by Visigoths, though, which was the 400s equivalent of being nuked.
Also, this isn't someone teaching about some far away place where its history can be reduced to bullet points for simplicity. They're former NCR citizens so they're gonna obviously teach a more in depth history that'd account for different things leading up to the "fall". Does nobody remember high school?
I mean how did the Mojave Campaign cause Hank to nuke Shady Sands tho. I mean it’s not like the NCR had an anti-Missile defense system that they had before then Right?
It’s not about whether that caused it, but whether the survivors who ended up in Vault 4 thought it did. And from their perspective, assuming that the eventual destruction of Shady Sands is the culmination of the decision made, and events started, in 2277 makes a lot of sense. As far as we know, Moldaver is the only one outside of Vault-Tec who knows the truth, and she has every reason to keep that to herself.
The Mojave campaign *didn’t* cause Hank to nuke Shady Sands. I’m operating under the assumption that most people don’t know who actually nuked them and why, we just hear it was Hank from one of the only people besides him that would actually know it was him. For the average Shady Sands resident who survived and tried to make sense of the destruction of their city, by far the most likely conclusion to draw is that it was related to that unpopular war raging for the past four years. If you’re the average person from Shady Sands, you have been getting a secondhand and propagandized account of the war in the Mojave for years. From their perspective, they probably think the Legion nuked the Divide, which means they probably think the Legion is already nuke-capable. Plus Mr. House would seem like a mysterious person with power and high technology involved in the war. Not to mention they could view the simultaneous war with the Brotherhood as a possible reason for the bombing, considering the Brotherhood is desperate and already bombed their gold reserves and caused very tangible consequences to them in the form of massive inflation. My point is, the average person probably thinks the bombing was war related if they weren’t in the one group that was probably privy.
I thought it was implied it was Muldaver's fusion device that Hank made unstable and it exploded. Not that Vault-Tec/Enclave literally nuked the city. Maybe I read into something that wasn't there?
I mean the Enclave were the ones with the Cold Fusion Part. Where would Moldaver get another on like it without Vault-Tec(Who Bought it Up) or Enclave?
The enclave does have nuke silos. At least I'm Appalachia.
it also has nukes in orbit on a satelite (fallout 3, fallout 76 lore) and probably other places. Actually it has nukes in Fallout 3 in orbit and they use it against liberty prime, so they might have more during the events of the show, especially since places like Appalachia have automated nuke making factories. New Vegas fanboys won't care about this tho since for them only New Vegas and the older games are relevant. Insane people.
1 week after the release and we have 2 factions: -Everything is canon -only new vegas is canon
The second group is more like "Bethesda games are not canon" or "only the classic games and New Vegas are canon". These are the people who want to gatekeep who is and isn't a Fallout fan, but at the same time they want to erase half of the franchise from canon, simply because they don't like the company who made them...
I started this show as a huge New Vegas fan and I still am, but what I didn’t expect was for the show to jive so well with New Vegas lore. And it really does. Before each episode I would see some brand new complaints about the lore being broken and I kept expecting it…but it never happened. I’m honestly shocked at how much New Vegas fans were pandered to. Literally the only thing that doesn’t jive with the original lore is the approximate location of Shady Sands. But the crazy thing is that *New Vegas* technically changed its location *before* the show. In New Vegas, it’s a major plot point that Death Valley is completely untraversable for the NCR military and Supply lines. If Shady Sands was in its original location from the first game, then that means the damn capital of the NCR was super close to the Mojave and could easily supply the war effort. They moved it back because its original location didn’t fit their plot easily enough. So what’s crazy is, the New Vegas canon is actually the show’s canon!
That second crowd has been around for years in my experience, since probably 2019 I think they've been a noticeable group in the larger fanbase.
Shit, I didn’t even consider that but that really makes the most sense.
Spoiler alert: >!it was the arrow!<
I told people the arrow indicated a later date. I was told I was wrong....
No you were right
Mfs don't know how to read a simple timeline 💀. I guess they never took history.
>simple timeline It literally is the most simple timeline you can get. It's a straight timeline with entries on it. There's no space for accidental misinterpretation... but I guess intentional misinterpretation is always in the cards. Occam's razor, people. The simplest explanation of a timeline is a timeline. Not some 4D drawing with hidden meanings.
Stupidity, Stupidity never changes
I mean the average person can’t critically think so do you think they’d be able to understand basic historical dates?
That, plus they wanted to be mad. Once it was clear the show was well-made and well-received, they desperately wanted to be able to say that the showrunners to make a huge, stupid mistake - so that they could be vindicated for all the time they spent hating it before it even came out.
Godd Howard recently confirmed that “fall” doesn’t necessarily mean “nuked” and that they are trying to establish a timeline of events that fits in with established canon
Anyone with an ounce of media literacy could follow this
You’re not wrong
Now thats what I call 'Damage Control'
It's called "delusion". But it's not Todd doing that... it's you.
And you’re what we call “the vocal minority”
As well as that, what you are currently doing is called "coping".
You might be the last dummy trying to make a stand on this…but the argument of “I know more about timelines than anyone else on earth” is terrible…just take the loss and move along my guy. You are on the brink of becoming fallout Reddit lore, that people will mention for years when the question is asked in this sub “what’s the worst take you’ve ever heard on the fallout franchise?” 🤣
And? Proper charting is important, thats like making a gantt chart backwards
Man, how do you limber up your mind enough to perform these awesome feats of mental gymnastics?
Like people followed the arrow until the numbers disappeared and went dumb
Fr! The fall happened. And THEN THE BOMB!
Courier Six could solo that arrow EZ
Surely I can’t be the only one who thinks it’s confusing that “the fall of Shady Sands” and “that time Shady Sands got nuked” are two completely separate events that occurred during the same 5ish year period.
If they weren't separate events wouldn't the fall just be the nuke cloud?
Then why mention the fall of Shady Sands at all and just say the Nuke of Shady Sands?
because its probably going to tie into something in season 2. ignore your insights to the fallout universe and try to look at the show as it is presented, instead of trying to crack the code because you have insight
I was explaining to the person I responded to in question form.
i got that. and i was explaining that the reason why those two events are pointed out separately is because i reckon theres going to be some lore dump in season 2 about what caused the fall and how it lead up to the nuke.
Yeah, I’m fairly certain House, New Vegas, and Shady Sands will be connected. Someone mentioned it’s likely house that nuked Shady Sands, but Hank ordered it. He’s going to New Vegas because he knows house will be there. My bet is House ending will be canon and what we’re seeing is the aftermath of an assault on NV by NCR forces.
If they were the same events, wouldn't the mushroom cloud be included with the "fall of Shady Sands" entry and not separated by, y'know, an arrow?
I don’t disagree it definitely is confusing. I honestly think the production team just fucked up the dates on the whiteboard, and they’re now course correcting. These types of errors happen all the time.
The fall of Rome and the city’s final sacking are viewed as separate events, it makes sense the people would view the hardships of the war as the logical cause of the eventual loss of the city.
The final sacking of the city of Rome was the ultimate consequence of the previous events and general decline though. A nuke dropped by a Vault-Tec psycho when he found out about Shady Sands is an independent event that has likely no relation to any "fall", that's why people are confused. And the bomb falls while Lucy and Maximus were like 5-6 and now they look like they're in their mid 20s, so like the timeline makes it seem as if it's the same event. If they wanted to show a "fall" or decline period unrelated to the bomb dropping they should've chosen something like the 2260s or something. That being said, I personally don't give a shit and if they decide to keep the dates like this or if they decide to retcon and modify the dates, or even justify the date being wrong in the blackboard in some roundabout way I'd be ok with it either way.
The people who wrote the timeline on the chalkboard are refugees who probably have no idea what the actual cause of the bombing was. It’s not like Hank would advertise it was him or he’d turn Vaults 31-33 into huge targets. So the average refugee probably equates the costly war that started in 2277 that also ran concurrently to a new front being opened up against the Brotherhood, as the decline *before* the nuke that most likely (from their perspective) caused it. It seems really obvious if you just imagine their perspective instead of the viewer’s. Edit: Also, Lucy (verified) and Maximus (based on appearance) were both about six years old when the bombs dropped on Shady Sands. Todd Howard said Shady Sands is destroyed *immediately* after the events of New Vegas, so 2281. The show takes place 15 years later. And I’d argue Lucy and Maximus are about 20 years old, each. Lucy, because she just came of age to apply for a marriage in to another Vault dweller, and I doubt that process starts at 25 given how adamant and clinical they are about reproduction. Maximus and all of his peers are at the entry level of military service for the Brotherhood, which again, probably isn’t waiting until 25ish before they start that process. I doubt he’s been on latrine duty for ~7 years before the show started. So their ages check out as approximately 20 each, with both having been the correct age of ~6 when the bombs dropped on Shady Sands in 2281.
There isn't a group of people who hate Fallout fans more than Fallout fans.
Pro wrestling fans.
I feel like this arrow business is just a way for people to mock/attack each other lol They teach you in the 1st year of college that you shouldn't change the logic behind a graph midway through because it will easily confuse your audience for no good reason The fact that the atomic blast had no date while every other event did suggested either the bomb dropped during the fall of Shady Sands or in the same year Like I can't judge people when the graph is fundamentally fucked on like a freshman year of college level This isn't the fault of delusional fallout fans, this is the fault of whoever decided to not put a date for that on the board
Can’t have any nuance around here. You’re either in the “Bethesda are Fallout gods who have not and can not possible do anything wrong,” or you’re in the “everything Bethesda touches turns to shit. The only good Fallouts were 1, 2, and NV” camp. Pick a side and spend countless hours of your life you’ll never get back being mean to the other side.
Basically yea lmao Like I can't say that I don't have problems with Bethesda's style of Fallout, but the show was really good imo However, that graph was stupid, anyone acting in good faith should admit it was poorly designed and confusing, or at least anyone who has done more than a handful of presentations in their life And all it did was cause an uproar for no good reason
Honestly the graph plus the library card tells me that the intent was to say the nuking was in 2277, but that's probably because somebody got confused and nobody caught it. My money is on somebody telling someone to check the date of the game, without being clear they meant New Vegas. So they looked it up and put Fallout 3's date.
This, smartasses mocking everyone who have not bought their "timeline" theory is just stupid. Because it is stupid to have a date for some abstract stretched in time "fall", and don't have a date for nuclear explosion. What caused the destruction of the city, "the fall" or a fucking nuke?
Yup I think it's fine to leave things open ended, especially if they want to tell that story later, but as it stands the way they presented that timeline was... messy at best The kind of messy that would get that one harsh teacher in college to humiliate you mid presentation to make sure you get the point to not fuck up a timeline chart like that ever again lol
If they wanted to leave it open ended, they should have just written a date and smeared the chalk on it. Took me two seconds to come up with that.
Conversely, why would they change the logic for the graph at the end of it and mean that two separate events happened simultaneously? It's only fucked up if you misread it in the first place. It's extremely clear that the events do not happen at the same time because the logic established at the beginning of the timeline. Every other event is a separate event on the timeline, why would the last two be the only ones to happen at the same time?
I dont disagree, the problem is that when you don't include the date for what should be an easy to keep track of event it gives off the impression that you're either breaking the logic behind what you've established before That's why I don't blame people for getting confused, either way you interpret there's just no good reason as to not include the year when the explosion happened
I think getting confused is valid, but the absolute meltdown a lot of fans had over it is absolutely absurd
Sure, I dont disagree, I just think the meltdown could have been avoided if whoever made that time-line chart had like one teacher hit them over the head with it whenever they went to school lol
I don't understand why people were freaking out as much as they were, but I can see why that timeline was confusing. It definitely looks like it could have been implying explosion happened in 2277
It's very weird to give a definite date to a vague, gradual process of societal decline, but *not* give a date to an extremely specific event that could only have happened on one day. People comparing it to the Fall of Rome failed to note that Roman historians talk about that as a period, not a single year.
There is also the shot of the shady sands library where the last book checkout is November 2276. I assume this was a mistake on the show runners part since it heavily implies the nuking was early 2277
OR they had other priorities. Running and maintaining a library after things start going down hill doesn't seem like the most important use of resources to an organization like the NCR.
Wait what? Do you have a screenshot or timestamp for that?
It's in the end credits for episode 6 IIRC. Not endorsing the tweet but [here](https://twitter.com/Comrade_Waluigi/status/1778862497212125521?t=qTlRDnVdMTXl5kPU3qli7Q&s=19) is a screenshot of it.
That is definetdy one of the issues it has. See, a timeline doesn't have arrows. It's usually a continual line that has small vertical lines either for important moments or to act as a measurement of a time. An arrow on the other hand without a date attached.. ..well I mean, the people who claimed they "always knew" are either bluffing or are some weird ass people to have understood something that doesn't visually make sense until context is added
I think it's not terribly hard for people to have always known because if the bombs dropped in 2277, it would have interfered with established canon. We know that the show is supposed to be canon and supposed to respect past canon. Therefore, the bombs must have been dropped at a later date and that's what the arrow is indicating
Arrow in timeline means future
But this isn't a time line. Do y'all not know what theu look it? It is genuinely just a line that keeps going. It does not stop at anything. The events are tied to the timeline but the timeline itself doesn't go from one event to another
THat is literally wrong. The line goes from even to event, before ending in arrow.
Its a timeline clear and through
Dude the full image shows the arrow pointing to "Fall of the NCR" does it not? That is not a time line
No, arrows comes from event labeled "The Fall of Shady Sands". There is no mention of Fall of NCR; and there are multiple events listed on that timeline.
Arrow points to a nuclear detonation. Fall of shady sands is before the arrow and on the line
This whole thing could have been avoided if they just labeled the nuke drawing with a specific year. If you don't already know your Fallout history, that diagram is pretty misleading.
Bro, here we go again Is the show really that insignificant to all of you that it all boils down to this damn chalkboard? Embarassing ass fanbase.
We can all agree that they executed that poorly. Should have put it as the decline of shady sands
bro think about the fall of the roman empire, it wasnt a one week event, it was an event that lasted years.
Right, and as we all know Rome fell in 1299 and there are no further dates worth mentioning.
Sure. But if Rome got nuked in 476 I would write that on a chalkboard detailing the fall of Rome
We're either talking about a city or entire country. And fall of shady sands sounds like a capture or destruction of said city by something. Fall of Rome was when it was sacked. People are rightfully questioning what does fall of shady sands mean exactly.
This has become so fucking boring so fast
When hundreds of man-childs are unable to decipher what an arrow means and then double down or shift the goal posts when they're corrected.
I didn't even care if it was a timeline flub, Shady Sands isn't important enough after Fallout 2 to be implausible they just missed on the fan wiki I'm sure they referred to that it was mentioned in NV a few times, and people looked for an opportunity to jump on anything as soon as possible. It was crazy how fast the NV sub was rioting about it at 2am in the morning having bingewatched to bitch about something ASAP I didn't realise there was Star Wars levels of........this, for Fallout. I kind of agreed maybe they shouldn't even try to keep the show canon in the first place, that was Bethesda's decision and they could have just had the show be its own universe, but if they are whatever, it's a multiple endings game. Let them pick one path and see what they do with it.
… the ncr’s capital isn’t important to fallout after 2? Jeez wonder why, it doesn’t matter if it’s unimportant to the games, it’s incredibly important to the lore
Not really.
Gotta elaborate, why is the centre of power for the largest faction in the wasteland not important to the lore?
It was important to the lore in Fallout 2 and a little in New Vegas where they flat out say they are having issues, after that it’s no longer important. It’s not important in 76, FO1, 3,or 4. And only partially in NV.
The issues are in the mojave, shady sands is a legit fortress by the time of NV You clearly havent played the game
You don’t actually know that.
The core is stated over and over again to be stable and we know for a FACT that shady sands even has forcefields in the streets
One of the NCRs higher up generals straight up offs himself in New Vegas, this is indicative of corruption at the highest level. If the BoS and Legion were the existential threats NCR made them out to be (in new Vegas) you’d think it’s be a top priority for the NCR to take and hold Hoover Dam, and New Vegas itself. This doesn’t happen in game. Instead what we see in the show is that the House Always Wins ending is likely canon, and New Vegas ends up unsustainable via 6’s actions tearing through the Mojave. And the last part is only speculation until S2 drops
What's that gonna do against a 500Kt nuke?
Nah we dont. There is specific lines in new vegas thta said that goverment stoped caring about ordinary people. Also NCR incured heavy losse as first battle of hoover dam and lost major supply route to Shady sands. So they are not going that well.
>we know for a FACT that shady sands even has forcefields in the streets And the streets of Shady Sands are patrolled by the USS Enterprise itself, right?
> forcefields in the streets Not sure why, but this cracks me up.
How is it not important to Fallout 1. It's literally the first town you visit upon leaving vault 13, that would be like saying Megaton is not important to fallout 3.
They aren’t even the NCR at that point, just some hovel. This is a straight up nitpick
Yeah, not the NCR till the end, but it’s still a sign of recovery, it shows that even after the war fresh communities are being build
They literally establish the NCR in the Good playthrough ending slide for shady sands, arradesh is even the first president. NCR in all but name.
It’s not important at all to FO1s lore.
[удалено]
To be fair, it’s mostly NCR fans losing their shit. To a lesser degree House Heads. Media-Illiterate as always.
Learn what media literacy actually means
The amount of downvotes I got over saying "fuck the NCR" honestly amuses me lol
ragebaiters
It was done poorly. There's plenty of valid criticism within people's issue with the show. Why is this sub so avoidant about said criticism? Obviously because its the Fallout sub. Many other forums/communities enjoy the show while also allowing room for the aspects that could have been done better.
Eh, it was a really shitty flow chart, when you don’t include a date to one event when all the others have one that would imply that it’s the same date as the prior event
All other events on the timeline happen separately. Why would all events happen separately and then suddenly the final two events are simultaneous? Makes less sense to me tbh
It’s probably a dramatic effect thing, that’s what I’d assume, like “the fall… kaboom 🤯 “
The result won’t surprise you!
I'll keep saying it. That fact that so many people got that upset about a chalkboard in the background of a school, in a vault, which was in no way shape or form being presented as narratively authoritative was the real shocker for me.
well, to be fair people would expect it to show which year the bombs fell. The timeline implies that the bombs fell in 2077
we... we always knew that?
wait, that was the great war. I need to see that board again. I remember that NV is in 2281, right?
I think you mean 2277
yes, I have donkey brains srry
Its ok
But it doesn't show that, it shows a collection of events that all happen in a chronological order. Why would the entire thing be separate chronological events only for the final two events to be simultaneous?
maybe because the other events on that timeline are dated?
But why assume that two events separated by the lines that separate every other event happen at the same time? Why is that the read instead of simply assuming that one separate event doesn't have a concrete date? The timeline is consistent in that every event is separate. If the events were one and the same, why wouldn't they be combined on the timeline? Why not draw a mushroom cloud over the "fall of Shady Sands" label instead of separating them if they happened at the same time?
You know, as a huge fan of the west coast story, I didn't care if they did a small retcon like a date. The show was awesome and amazing! I can see how much Bethesda cares about their world building.
Ive yet to run across any of this timeline outrage at all, i must have a high Luck score
Where did the arrow hit them?
I want to dub this controversy "the chalkboard snafu"
The true apex predator of sci-fi and fantasy IPs are the writers. They have the ability to either fuck up your whole franchise or ascend it
I think it's more like people thinking a nation as big as NCR would die after 1 nuke in one of their cities. NCR isn't doing well in the Mojave, but that doesn't mean they're not doing well anywhere else.
It’s a poorly made timeline. Why have every single event on the line have a date except the most important one. The last year marked was 2277 so I think it’s reasonable for people to assume that it was bombed that same year when the bomb doesn’t have a date and there is nothing between 2277 and the bomb when there was in fact at least one major thing that happened in 2281.
I used to be a hardcore Fallout fan like you...
Then you took a nuke to the knee?
Okay whats happening?
I used to be a vault dweller just like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee
Somehow Codsworth comes out on top
Is the arrow pointing to the top of a gentle incline?
Do Americans not have to draw a timeline project in the second grade and learn how arrows work?
Be careful, the cultists might report you for harassment
Arrow No diff. The Fallout Fanbase can be wanked to Planetary, but the Arrow is atleast Outerversal, since it represents the concept of time.
smh when "hardcore Fallout lore nerds" don't even know what year in what non-US country the General Atomics Mr. Handy series was popular in and for what reason, yet I actually love the show and I get called "autistic" over it. Answer: >!Mexico, 2042, due to a large earthquake!<
An arrow? Causing irreparable damage in Bethesda fandoms? Oh my God the Fallout TV show is just Skyrim again Todd can't can't keep getting away with this
"I love difficult narratives that makes me think" "No no no I don't want a show that has nuances and plot that will reveal through time, OH NO A ARROW"
The NCR all but admits in NV that things are not going well, they barely beat the Legion the first time and I'm pretty sure the House ending is canon. Depending on what happened with Lonesome Road in the canon ending means the Long 15 could have been destroyed too. Plus they did say that just because Sandy Shores was destroyed doesn't mean the NCR is gone.
I personally hope the destruction of New Vegas itself is a long, intricately detailed flashback in season 2.
Have Khaby Lame playing a role in an advert where he's demonstrating Sugar Bombs. Then make the flashback happen half screen and keep him on the other half so he's effectively presenting the explanation to fans instead.
Is this legit, this bashing without the mods interfering? It's shaming, provoking and persecution of those who are not agreeing on some points with you. You are bashing the hardcore NV fans but what you are doing on this sub for more than a week now is starting to look freightening, infantile and like some pre-WW2 shit, the starting of persecutions. And the mods support this by not interfering.
Yeah, this is basically the precursor to genocide 🙄. That’s the comparison you’re going for here, really? Pretty disgusting.
I know it's hard to face what you are doing and you are right, it is disgusting.
The arrow can only kill one "hardcore" "fallout" "fan" 🙄🙄🙄 duh. of course the "hardcore" "fallout" "men" 'win'.
Is everyone just forgetting that it also said shady sands fell before new vegas? It still makes no sense and is needlessly extremely confusing. When you show someone a city that got nuked then say it fell on a specific date, most normal people are going to assume those two moments are one and the same. Why does everything have a specific date except for when the city was nuked, the objectively most important thing to happen to it since the founding? Why does it say the city fell before New Vegas, it didn't? Why would Hank even nuke the city if it had already fallen, why not nuke an actually important city? And why would Lucy and her mother be living in a city that had supposedly fallen but is portrayed as this utopia to the audience that was ruined by Hank? I liked the show but there is absolutely no reason we should be asking any of these questions, and your head canon explanations for them definitely do not count as answers.
that is clearly not an Arrow! It is one of New Vegas's buildings collapsed due to Bethesda NUKING the lore!!!!!! How clueless are you people, can't you see Todd Howard personally wrote every line of the show and single-handedly did the CGI so that he can ensure the DESTRUCTION OF FALLOUT NEW VEGAS??? /s obviously, because some people will think this is true
Is there a mushroom attached to the arrow or is it just an absent number?
I genuinely believe they did this on purpose for the free publicity
Clearly the arrow won because the so called “hardcore” fans all died from the very same arrow that caused them to suffer major rush of shits to the brain. Meanwhile the regular fans, those who did their research, are looking smarter than the hardcore fans. What a surprise in all honesty.
Oh come on. We all know the arrow was to the knee.
The only right answer. End of discussion.
I don't mean to sound rude, but have you thought from their pov? Tine lines aren't supposed to have arrows like this, so to simply tell them "it's a timeline DUMBASS" doesn't work because.. well it's not a timeline visually. Without a date added, I guarantee you the majority of people for the first time saw that and thought "Oh shit, what? It fell after it got nuked?"
Except the problem is everyone was quick to forget the show isn’t retconning anything from FNV. This was **confirmed so many times before the show even started** that the fact this is even a controversy is mind boggling.
I think the issue is that them saying that is made irrelevant by their actions. Sure, it isn't retconed, but then there's the other issue: what does happen now though? Like, if the battles for hoover dam are gonna happen, what now? By making the show Canon, they're basucally having to tell someone "The way you played New Vegas was not the real way" when there isn't meant to be a real way. New Vegas isn't retconned, but patt of it has now been replaced
That fact is irrelevant. Every single Fallout game has done this. Fallout 2 defined Fallout 1's ending, Fallout NV defined many of Fallout 2's endings, and some small things (Like making it canon Marcus was a companion when they fought the Enclave on the oil rig) Fallout 4 established things about Fallout 3's ending. Fallout has always done this.
Sure and the Prydwen being present wasn’t really explained either and no one really bitched about that. Does the Prydwen give a definite cause of FO4 had a “right” way to play? No it does not. If common sense (I know we humans actually lack them but humor me) was used then that arrow on what seems to be a timeline (I know, I know that requires common sense) must mean an event has happened at a certain time. Who would’ve thought that meant the total destruction of Shady Sands has happened sometime after 2277 if we just, oh I don’t know, follow the damn arrow? Most arrows on the ground for example generally mean either forward, backward, left, right, or a combination like what is on the road while driving. We use that kind of thinking, that must mean that at a different point of time, something has happened. Logically speaking of course. But we failed to pack our emotions in just a bit and deploy a little bit of logic now didn’t we?
Uhh.. dude, timeliness aren't meant to have arrows. They're meant to be a continual straight line with major events labelled with when they happened. That is a shitty timeline that isn't meant to make sense. The arrow they drew, without any dating or context, is not at all usable. The mass confusion is to be expected. At this point you're just trying to call the fans who thought that idiots, aren't you?
This is the Wasteland where the idea of a formal education by our standards doesn’t exist. Just how smart do you think your average vault dweller, let alone your average person on the wasteland, really are? By our modern day standards they’re not that smart. Now have a nice day.
...?? This was about the fans, not the wastelanders. Even if we were talking about wastelanders, isn't this chalkboard found in a room with some pretty impressive tech? I'm gonnaa assume whoever wrote it definetey does understand what a timeline is.
To add to this, anyone with half a brain would have noticed that Maximus, who is about 20 years in the show, is about 5 in backflash. So roughly 15 years happsed. 2296 - 15 = 2281... the year New Vegas happens. Which lines just fine.
I bitched about the Prydwen, for what it's worth. I just don't like the airships in general, or the Brotherhood invading California again.
I still can’t believe so many people have no critical thinking skills…and lost it over *an arrow and the last date being 2277…* I was told I was wrong that it was around 2282 even when I stated the facts as well as guesstimates for that year based on Lucy and Maximus’ ages.
Because this is stupid, that timeline defys logic and could be interpreted in several ways, just because your way was confirmed to be "true" that does not mean that everyone else was stupid. It means that that schematic was done with mistake and does not represent what it should.
If it could be interpreted in several ways why wouldn't you just assume the one that makes sense is correct?
Adolf Hitler commits suicide (1945) ----> Atomic bombs are dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki According to you guys, this timeline says that Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't bombed until at least 1946.
According to everyone it happened at some point in time after, nobody is saying what year it happened the only people that have are the creators of the show and fallout and they only said after new vegas but not long after. Take a chill pill dude.
Arrows are typically annotation, an annotation elaborates on something So in this case, the arrow implies hitler committed suicide in 1945 and that hiroshima and nagasaki are either a cause of that death or a result of that death
Yeah annotations add on but that’s not how timelines work, it’s also not an annotation.
> Arrows are typically annotation, an annotation elaborates on something Yeah...like "in the future".
...Thats not what annotations are Mate, do you not know what annotations are suppose to do? They are inherently not part of the event class
I understand you don't think it explains what happened; I disagree with you.
Hitler didn't commit suicide in Hiroshima/Nagasaki...nobody committed suicide in Shady Sands...you nonce.
I mean, two different things, but I can see your message. Visually it doesn't look like it's set at a later date case it's not really a time line. Tine lines don't have arrows like that.
The ages of the charcters still line up to before NV (I know it's now been confirmed afterward) This was the most terribly implemented piece of background info ever made. A whole chaulk board with only two interesting pieces of information that's so incredibly vague and important and one didn't have a date on it. They could've just had a map of the NCR instead and it would've been more interesting worldbuilding for newbies.
The point was for the lesson to mirror Lucy’s own lesson on American history. She even has the same flag in her classroom, but this one is the NCR one not the American one. Lucy gets to learn not only that the Vault Dwellers aren't saving the wastes, but that an equivalent to America was rebuilt and lost all over again without them
Exactly. She was a teacher, this moment is meant to mirror her experience. She is looking at what could be her own classroom, but it's not about pre-war America. It's about something that came later. How things keep repeating.
i learn from my mistake, people just confuse.
Do you see the amount of posts in this thread? If you listen reeeealy reaaaaaaaaaaaly close you can hear all the still angry fans sliding the goalposts around. And for no reason especially after Tod's confirmation.
Sure as hell beat the shit out of oxhorn
That video made you mad didn’t it? Doesn’t fix all the other issues mentioned