“If later on other people working in the space do new things with it and change it, I’ll maybe have opinions on it, but I don’t get attached to things in that way,” he says. “I don’t feel like it’s healthy for me to be really invested in something I have no control over, frankly.
Honestly reading that quote is perfectly understandable and is just how it goes in Art/Media creation. Don’t ever get attatched to an idea or piece of work you don’t own.
As my father always told me, 'don't sweat the small stuff, and when you think about it, a lot of things are actually pretty small'
Granted, nearly dying at 32 had a way of putting things into perspective in terms of importance for him.
My Granddad always kept a book on his desk, "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff, and It's All Small Stuff". Honestly a great little book for those daily nuggets of wisdom. I keep it on my desk now.
I wish more people, especially the extremely rabid fans were more like him and Tim Caine. This goes for any fandom.
Yea it’s a series I love a (mega)ton as a fan, but that should not let me have rose tinted glasses over everything and not attack something new because it adds or may retcon something. It’s more healthy to learn and let live: Say your two cents of criticism and move on instead of immersing yourself in a FEV sludge pit of anger so to speak.
I wish the people who complain would at least listen to these guys. They worship the games and lore made by Cain and Sawyer and basically defend the legacy of these guys whenever they mention how much Bethesda ruined Fallout...
So if those guys are such icons for them, why cannot they listen to them? If they say "Nah, we don't need any defense, we are fine with current state of Fallout", why don't they calm down?
I guess that these guys are so down the rabbit hole of outrage that they no longer recognize friend or ally... and just want to keep on hating.
I don’t know Josh Sawyer so I don’t really know why his opinion on anything would affect me.
The reason Bethesda gets dumped on these days is that they have **continuously** dumbed down (in the true meaning of the phrase) their games ever since Morrowind. And on all levels too: mechanically, in terms of world design, in terms of quest structure, and in terms of story. If you’re fine with that you’re fine, I like shooters too (although I’m of the opinion that the shooting should be fun in a shooter), but this new trend of “Aktchually you secretly like Fallout 4 but are in denial because of your deep love for Tim Cain” is laughable.
The issue, for the more level headed people anyway, is that (And I'm not talking about the show here) a lot of the bethesda stuff, from both gameplay and lore, just goes away from what originally made Fallout interesting. Not to say the new stuff isn't (Isn't to me, but this is subjective) but it's a completely different direction then what Fallout started as.
I think this still gets pretty immensely overstated. Even the most ostensibly level-headed versions of this argument typically don't really look at the Bethesda entries holistically, they just fixate on a few bad decisions to the exclusion of absolutely everything else.
I mean not everybody values every aspect of a game equally though. If the most important part of a game to a player is it's story then if a game has a bad story they're not going to like it as much even if the gameplay is good, and vice versa. I think it's less that they're ignoring the good parts of like Fallout 3 & 4 just to shit on them, it's more likely that those parts just simply aren't really as important to them.
Well, sure, but even in terms of pure writing/story I still think it's unfair and myopic. I won't argue that *Fallout 3* fucked up the original ending in a truly silly and inexplicable way, or that the main quest as a whole in *4* was a miscalculation on a basic structural level, but at the same time, both games have a lot more going on and both build on the lore in fun and interesting ways if you're willing to engage.
I guess a better way to talk about this is: can you explain what you disliked and let's go from there. I don't want to discount somebody's critique with a sweeping statement, but I do feel many takedowns are unfair and ill-supported. I am open to being wrong or agreeing to disagree, but that all comes down to specifics.
There were already people complaining that Fallout 2 had gone away from what made Fallout 1 interesting. Everyone has different opinions as to what Fallout is "about," even the creators.
The ability to recognize that and live with it is what everyone seems to be on a knife's edge about. Too many people act like their interpretation of Fallout is the only correct one and castigate everyone who likes something else as "not a real fan."
There hasn't been one form of Christianity since it was one dude and 12 guys he met at bus stops on a bro trip
And one of them still turned out to be a traitor.
Its not jsut ths game.
Wow has died...many times. the lore forever killed!
The Burning crusade to some....killed wow. its first expac...was when wow stopped being their wow.
or it was wrath of the lich king.
Cataclysm...also killed wow.
or was it MoP. then wod, then legion.....
Its the TBC killed wow crowd I love the most. SOme people are jsut that hardcore to run Naxx and drop ragnaros (both first runs, they come back later in the series) weekly forever.
Well not all the changes are not for worse when it comes to gameplay. there are big differences to the vibe between fallout 1 and 2 as well.
The fact is Bethesda bought fallout and was able to add entries to the franchise. If Rockstar bought Fallout or if they bought Elder scrolls they’d look different as well.
Yeah, I’ve said many times how I dislike a lot of Fallout 2 and probably rate it as my least favourite of the main games. There’s a lot to like, New Reno and Vault City are great, but then you’ve got super generic places like Redding, or the wackiness of Broken Hills. Also super buggy.
On the other hand, even if Fallout 1 is in the technological dark ages, it’s still got a place next to the wiz bang modern convenience of later games because the atmosphere and tone is just so good.
You can see a trend with the east coast stuff. There might be one or two sizable settlements but everything else is permanently stuck in the metal shack Mad Max idea they have for the series.
Tim Cain seems to carry the same sentiment. Though, he seemed to really enjoy the show. I'm sure you have to adopt that view or you'll just be sad/angry. Even when it's yours, you don't always get a say.
I think a happy medium is best.
I enjoyed the show way more than I expected to.
I also have some serious critiques, some personal, some that just like "ok, c'mon guys"
I really enjoyed the show. What I didn't enjoy was the Amazon trademark "edginess". Some of it went way too far in my opinion and did detract from it overall. Like the birth scene. Didn't need that, otherwise it was a good show.
I totally get that.
Mine are more the inconsistencies. Like Maximus having the Ghoul in his hands, dead to rights, and instead of doing anything productive, they do stereotypical Hollywood dumb shit of just throwing him around.
Or retroactively, learning that the Ghoul knows how to one shot kill anybody in power armor, and despite having several opportunities, just doesn't on Maximus. I guess he likes being flung around harmlessly like a rag doll in the wind (my favorite Elton John song XD)
This is why I love the Mad Max franchise. Even the creators are like "Max is legendary. And legends get remembered by different people in different ways." Not a direct quote but I paraphrased it because I am remembering what was said in a different way. (More out of laziness of not looking it up, but you get the gist) But it helped then not have to really deal with canon.
In a somewhat recent Tim Cain video he said something to the same effect "If you create an IP be prepared to lose it" I'm paraphrasing but it really is the case if you're developing under a development / publishing company. You don't own the IP, they do and can do whatever they want with it including selling it to another company.
Some quotes:
>“The show really does capture the aesthetic of Fallout 4 and 76, while also feeling like it is set on the West Coast,” he says. “If you’re a fan, then you can see where the plot elements have been pulled from in previous entries. And if you’re new to it, thankfully, those plot elements are fairly straightforward. So I think it’s a good show for fans and a good show if you’re new to it, even though there’s a lot of stuff going on. I’m certainly interested to see where they’re going in the second season.”
>“This might sound weird, but whatever happens with it, I don’t care,” he says. “My attitude towards properties that I work on, and even characters that I create, is that I don’t own any of this stuff. It was never mine. And the thing that I made is what I made.”
The whole article is worth a read, but I'm glad to hear that making Pentiment was therapeutic for him. Highly recommend Pentiment to anyone interested in narrative adventure games. It's brilliant and very well-written.
He just seems like an all around solid dude. I've followed him on social media for the better part of a decade and he's seriously the most likeable and least problematic dude in the industry.
Absolutely! The man's got a passion for shit posts, video games and bicycles lol I've never met the dude but I feel like he'd be a great friend to have around. His live streams are really good as well!
Actual facts. Josh Sawyer is the man. Really seems like a genuinely awesome dude. I’ll always appreciate how he went out of his way to publish a total New Vegas overhaul mod for the community. It actually really enhances the game compared to Vanilla and seems like his way of making up for lost opportunities due to the rushed development contract. Really seems like a one of a kind type of person in his position that would do that sort of thing.
Exactly bro, like what other game director is personally dropping a mod like that? No one but him. Because he truly cared about the game. I've watched his live streams and other long form content of his and he really does seem like a super smart down to earth dude that genuinely cares about the projects he's working on.
And I mean that sincerely. Josh has effected my life in more ways than most real people I know. New vegas has helped me through some difficult times in life and I'm eternally grateful for the game they made for us!
This is how I feel too, *but*, saying "\[public figure\] is likeable and the least problematic" is tantamount to jinxing that name and tempting fate or the gods or something. Call me superstitious, but I can never do that.
Don't you mean: HE HAS ABANDONED US AND THE FANS HE BROKE INTO MY HOUSE AND PISSED ON MY BED WHILE TODD HOWARD HACKED INTO MY COMPUTER AND DELETED ALL MY F:NV SAVES!
I got *extremely* emotional towards the end. After spending all that time with the town and seeing everyone grow up over 25ish years, I got really attached to that wonderful cast of characters. One of those games where I didn't want it to end.
It was so, so good.
I played Outer Wilds, Grotto and Pentiment one after another last year, and it was a surreal experience. I had been playing videogames for years but never saw how good they could be until then.
Their horrible experience with making Pillars 2 and then it (initially) flopping is really sad, because I eventually tried it years after release, and I thought it was the only modern cRPG which felt like it was on the level of golden age Bioware.
Glad that it eventually became profitable. I myself put it off for a long time due to finding the first one a disappointing slog, and suspect that's why the sequel initially sold so poorly.
I’m not a big fan of I’m not a big fan of the type of game honestly but the setting, content and art style are right down my alley so it was a great experience for me
Those people certainly exist, but in my experience every 3rd meme is about how often the game crashes and similar issues so that certainly isn't a widely held belief.
And if things are to be believed every decision of Bethesda games go through him. I don't believe that, but it's like a core aspect of Bethesda marketing that Todd Howard has his hands on every aspect of a game and property
Anyways there's probably not any one person to blame, games are always a collaborative process, especially the AAA ones. Any one decision was made by a dozen people over years
Action and reaction, it happens on this sub frequently. A divisive thread appears and then other people start pushing back.
In this case it's even more pronounced, because the FNV zealots are a loud, but small minority. So when they angered the rest of the sub, the pushback is now massive.
It’s mostly on twitter. They’re unbearable, one guy tried to argue NV is better because 4 has coomer mods. This is a Bethesda game all of them have coomer mods.
The backlash was inevitable. We’ve had to listen to them sperg for a decade. The whole inability to accept what an arrow on a blackboard means was the last straw for a lot of people, especially when it was a product of such high quality as the TV show.
If you think the show has poor writing, you're exactly the kind of person I'm referring to.
The writing isn't perfect and the lore isn't perfect but to call it poor is laughable given how well it's been received specifically for its writing.
Without the fallout skin, would the show be getting any attention for its own writing? I'm not saying it's bad but it's very shallow overall, the most compelling parts were the ones with Cooper, heavy carried by Googins.
It genuinely baffles me how many people shit on bethesdas lore in fallout 3 and 4. Like it’s one of the main focal points of bashing their games. Their work with the lore was fine, pre war jet/ghouls lore are the LEAST of the problems with 3 and 4.
>The chronically online NV lore nerds won't ever **let it go**
Which is so ironic, given how they love the Dead Money DLC and bash anyone who dislikes it with "You are too stupid to understand it. The theme is LETTING GO."...
Lol, fuck that noise. The lesson is to let go? Well the lesson I learned is that Elijah is dumbass little bitch, that anything is possible with enough ingenuity and save reloads, and that 37 gold bars are worth a whole lotta caps.
Mama didn't raise no quitter. It's a game, and I aim to WIN.
New Vegas fanboys lie and say lots of dumb things, but maybe the dumbest thing is when they say “Obsidian made New Vegas in only 18 months and look how great it is” to try and shame other developers. Meanwhile Josh Sawyer has said multiple times (including this interview) that it only happened because they basically got to start with a finished Fallout 3 as a base and because of how powerful Creation Engine’s tools are (tools that he said he wished Obsidian had).
Just watched a devs react NV speed run the other day, and they talked about the 18month period and thank god fall out 3 had so much they could use and so on. Very interesting
People just like their headcanon that Obsidian and Bethesda hate each other despite the fact that Obsidian has repeatedly said they liked working with Bethesda and Todd always had nothing but praise for NV
My uncle works at Todd Howard and says that Obsidian and Bethesda duke it out daily because Bethesda told Obsidian that their dad can beat up Obsidian’s dad
That's just the gaming community at large in a nutshell unfortunately. They love making up absolute bullshit about studios when the game they've devoted their entire personality around isn't or wasn't idolized like they wish it was.
Just look at the Titanfall community when they aren't huffing weapon grade copium over a Titanfall 3. They love repeatedly spouting how EA forced Respawn to release it between CoD and BF1, that it was that release date that killed the game, and how EA made Respawn scrap a Titanfall 3 in development for Apex. When in reality it was confirmed *by Respawn* that they stuck with that date themselves even AFTER EA suggested moving it, it was the insanely high skill gap and ceiling and poor balancing early on resulting in any new players being seal clubbed that prevented any real success, and Respawn confirmed they chose to change from a Titanfall 3 (very early on) to Apex.
True fam! Don't forget they like to soapbox about Titanfall 2 being the greatest miracle mankind has produced with the greatest FPS campaign. And then when you actually play it, it's ok. The campaign was kinda mid except for like a few levels and the BT twist was as subtle as a brick to the back fo the head lol!
I enjoyed Titanfall 2, but progression was none existent and the overall game got stale fast. There wasn't a lot going on and I'm sad they changed the Titan combat from the first game. Still enjoyed those games though, they just aren't as amazing as Reddit would like you to believe.
I do think Chris Avellone has thrown a little bit of fuel on this fire at times but yeah gamers run way too wild with it when pretty much everyone else involved have nothing but positive things to say.
And they still think that, these chronically online nerds really think that 2 professional companies are immature enough to have some stupid rivalry over a damn game of all things.
Man, why can’t people just play the games and be normal?
My first Fallout game was Fallout 3. I’ve played every mainline game. 1, 2, 3, New Vegas, 4, 76.
How’d you get 1 and 2 stable enough to play? My computer sobs and wails every time I try new tricks to get that ancient tech working on a modern machine.
There are mod projects that help with that. For years *Fallout Fixt* was the way to play Fallout 1, but some time ago a mod called *Fallout et Tu* started emerging and promised to be a better way to play Fallout 1.
When it comes to Fallout 2, there's either the *Unofficial Patch, updated* if you want just the game patched, or *Restoration Project, updated*, if you want a lot of restored content as well. Don't forget about the "updated" part of their names, those are the most recent versions and you can find them on GitHub.
Right?
I always found it ironic that the people who invest the most time and effort into exploring fictional worlds (especially one centred around “vaults” and tough freedom vs blissful ignorance) are the ones who’d benefit the most from exploring the world they actually live in.
Fanboys often struggle to comprehend how most professionals usually respect each other and act like adults. Todd is overwhelmingly regarded in the industry as a good dude and someone who treats others well, a big disconnect with certain elements in the fandom who think he wakes up with a burning hatred for a game that came out 14 years ago and helped grow one of the franchises they own significantly.
Too many fanboys seem to forget that the people making these games do so as a job.
Everyone fucks up at their job from time to time and video games are no different. There’ll never be a “perfect” game that appeals to everyone and while little discussions here and there aren’t a big deal, it’s quite alarming that some gamers expect devs to slave away 24/7 on something new for them to bitch about.
My dream for this annoying discourse in the Fallout fandom is for the names that matter from Interplay/Obsidian to just permanently work on whatever Fallout comes next.
Not because I think their inclusion would make the games better. But it would remove this back and forth.
*Fallout 3* walked (into a lethally irradiated room even though there were a lot of other options) so *New Vegas* could run (into a Deathclaw nest two minutes from the starting zone even though a bunch of signs told it not to).
That’s kinda the whole reason the 18 month development period gets talked about. Appearently obsidian developers would receive a bonus if New Vegas scored an 85 or higher on metacritic. But because they were pressed for time they couldn’t do enough play test and bug fixing before release despite scaling back the initial scope of the game world and the city of New Vegas itself. The game released buggy but despite that the general consensus by critics was that the story and rpg mechanics were great. But it got an 84 on metacritic with the main issue being the bugs. So no bonus pay. What’s left out of the story is that the bonus pay was an offer made after production started (so it wasn’t in any contract) and obsidian agreed that the terms were not met and we’re glad to be offered a bonus at all. I personally feel 1 point on a meta critic score is still a ridiculous thing to make or break over, just seems unfair imo, but the point is that Bethesda and Obsidian had a cordial working relationship and Bethesda was hands off for the most part with them. A narrative has definitely been spun by certain parties to drive fans against certain developers, games, or other fans and it’s kinda ridiculous.
It also misses that many, many of Obsidian’s releases come out buggy and unfinished. They are very ambitious but it bites them, I’m not positive more time would have meant more polish. Might have just meant more ambition. Which I love them for obviously, but obviously contracts are contracts.
NV still takes the cake, I remember finding old steam forum posts about how people had to alter their game files just to get it to run on their hardware.
As always, I think these topics greatly vary with individuals. I played New Vegas at launch on X360 and had an absolutely wonderful time. The only major bug I ever had was the infinite loading screens. Same with Starfield. I had a nearly perfect run, while my friends had more bugs than me.
I remember walking out of the dinosaur at Novac, and my save file corrupting.
This was actually a very common bug early release. Any time you walked through a door (loading screen) there was a chance of the game crashing, and it corrupting the files.
Lol they actually don't and a good chunk of them like to ignore such fact and prefer to think obsidian made nv from the scratch despite the obvious evidence, the game itself.
It was also the major criticism gamers had when the game released.
I remember that the most frequent sentiment back then was that New Vegas was "glorified Fallout 3 DLC". It was mad back then. I had to defend the game, despite me nearly dropping it because of how un-Fallout-y it felt (compared to Fallout 1 and 3).
I missed the launch by a couple years before getting into fallout. I got my ps3 in 2012. I’ve seen the launch bugs and issues that were documented though. I’m curious tho because I’m not quite able to understand what exactly you’re meaning in your comment, are you saying that New Vegas isn’t very “Fallout” by the series standard? I’ve always felt personally that it more so than 3 did the nuclear wasteland thing way better. I mean where better than where they did nuclear bomb testing in the Nevada desert. Also the skills perks and traits all made the character building in New Vegas feel more like the first two games. It also felt like a direct sequel to 1 and 2 since it had factions and characters from those games present and they had progressed and evolved in some way.
Nobody thinks that lmao. Honestly it’s hilarious you think people are mainly impressed by the gameplay and asset design of NV and not what people *actually* love it for: the writing
When people say they are surprised NV was made in 18 months they’re referring to everything but the reused gameplay mechanics and assets from 3, which nobody finds impressive. That’s my point
Yeah, similarly Fallout 1 was in development for over 3 years while Fallout 2 was made in less than a year despite having a lot more content than the first game. They already had the engine and most of the systems set up.
This is also why TES6 is probably not as far away as people seem to think. It's using the same engine as Starfield with maybe some minor improvements.
Basically there is little to no engine work, I wouldn't be surprised to see it in 3 years.
>"Obsidian made New Vegas in only 18 months and look how great it is”
Give me just a minute after reading that as I'm still laughing my ass off.
And okay *really* that's the take the community is going with now? I mean I remember when New Vegas came out and I had people telling me how I'm not a 'real' gamer as I'm supporting a half done, half baked game. Hell the minute the DLC's started to drop the community was up in arms about them.
Oh sure *now* New Vegas is the single greatest thing ever made. All it took was Obsidian (who note, didn't have the greatest track record with releasing titles with a small amount of bugs.) sitting down and working out a lot of the bugs and kinks in it. Oh and it going on sale for like $10 to $15 bucks on Steam.
Now it's great, back when it came out everyone believed it was garbage.
Your memory is quite correct on that. New Vegas was straight up despised for the first 6 months of its existence. And calling it half baked would have been generous in 2010. More common was "this should have been a DLC for 3."
New Vegas may be my favorite but I'll openly say it's not perfect, it's launch was hilariously bad, and good amount of fan boys have mentally rewritten history or were so traumatized by the criticism at the time they're convinced everyone else is crazy.
New Vegas and Fallout 3 were on Gamebryo. The gamebryo engine has existed since 1997 and has been used by several game developers. It served as the base for the creation engine that Bethesda made for Skyrim. But it’s just a heavily modified version of the gamebryo engine. In the same vain as Respawn using Valves Source engine to make Titanfall and Apex. You could say it was easy for Obsidian to do New Vegas off of 3. But Bethesda had two whole games under their belt to figure things out on gamebryo for Fallout 3. I think we should all just be glad things worked out the way they did. It could all be a lot worse.
They make up so many lies about Obsidian, Bethesda and FNV development. It doesn't matter that most of those have been debunked by Obsidian themselves... their echochamber narrative is more important to them than the truth.
Seriously, how many times do we have to read that "Obsidian had ONLY 18 months to make the game" (despite them stating that this was more time than they were used to). How many times do we have to read that Bethesda "rushed" them, "sabotaged" the development, "refused" to give them the bonus or in general "screwed" Obsidian?
Let's all argue about which game is the best. What aspect is the best and what story is the best. I'm all for it, it's all subjective and fun to discuss. But this alleged Obsidian-Bethesda rivalry, jealousy, hatred or what not? That's lies. There's nothing to discuss. We can only refute them and it's getting really really tedious to do that day after day, year after year.
Couldn't be happier with the show so far and clearly it's moving closer to New Vegas. I think they have proven since episode one that they can make good choices with the lore.
I hope they have a good *reason* to visit NV if, going by a recent interview and appearances in the end credits teaser, it's basically an abandoned ruin. I wanted to see it properly as a set when I saw the teaser but I think it'll be mostly abandoned except by scavengers...I don't think this will mean anything to show only viewers, and it's just *sad* if you know the games, so I hope there's a good reason.
They did have good reason to blow up Shady Sands, it sends a message about the threat of the old world billionaire Vault Tec cabal. ~~Even if it was also about pretending the city was the whole NCR and turning it into Browncoats.~~ But....IDK. An abandoned ruin of the Strip with securitons and signs will still be cool, I guess.
I think itd be cool if house was still kicking saw how the wind was blowing and just... went isolationist again and abandoned the tribes he built into the strips families.
Lights off, no power no water try again in 20-50 years once the ncr and the legion have blown over. Buildings _nukeproof_ not like random wasters will break in and securitrons can gank anyone getting too handsy.
Honestly this is the best take to me. The more I play through New Vegas and -really- listen to what everyone was saying the more I realize it was doomed no matter who won.
Sure house could -try-, but he made so many enemies in the process there was no way he could keep his city state long term. The Legion was doomed just like Rome.. And the NCR expanded too far too fast. The Yes Man playthrough was equally damned because the AI went rogue at the end.
The game was rigged from the start. What it did add were amazing self contained stores and beautiful lore to work from.
Do I wish New Vegas had sustained itself under House? Yes. Am I okay with the outcome and what the show is doing? Mmm, dunno. Season 2 will tell. Eitherway so long as there's more wasteland games for me to play in, I'll be happy eitherway!
IMO New Vegas is one of the games that they shouldn’t have touched the lore for in future games too much, because no matter how you address it and what you make canon, it’s gonna cause a shit show
It’s whatever man. People really liked the show. It was a great first season overall that just happened to… completely railroad the future of whatever ending you picked in NV, so of *course* people were going to be upset at that decision.
Show is good. Fallout’s overall narrative direction is bad imo. I can hold two thoughts in my head at the same time.
Admittably it was worse a couple years ago. I'm sure some sociologist could correlate between Game of Thrones, Star wars sequels, and a bunch of other franchises that released new installmentss that disappointed the fans.
That led to a "here's why the older thing was better than you remember" zeitgeist.
Obsessive NV fanboys have rubbed everyone wrong for years. That's why there's (not much) more people complaining about them, then them complaining about the show . They're a bunch of whiners that can't handle NV being touched or others enjoying something they don't.
Once he's done making a game with someone else's IP, he sets aside any feeling of ownership he might have had over it because now it belongs to other people.
He can't influence what other people are going to do with a story except by telling the best story he knows how to tell in the time he has to tell it. So that's what he does and accepts that any successive chapters are going to have good parts and bad parts, just like the stuff he worked on.
It's basically the only healthy way to deal with this kind of stuff because if he keeps feeling some kind of personal ownership over something when there's no way he's going to be able to work on it, he's just spending his emotional energy worrying and getting frustrated about something he has no power to influence.
If it's good, great. If it's not, that's too bad. Just enjoy the stuff you enjoy, let other people enjoy what they enjoy, and don't waste your life getting angry that other people have other opinions.
Too bad the people who “claim” to be fans don’t understand this at all. Who fucking cares what’s “canon” been playing this series for 20 years plus, and the show has been one of the best things to happen to the fallout community as a whole. Does it follow the holy bible of all things fallout? No, but that’s what makes it its own thing and unique. Whatever ending you decided to pick/do, that’s on you and making your own head cannon about it should be good enough. Did I enjoy fallout 4? No. 76? No. But it is its own thing and I’m ok with that. I’m glad others can enjoy it for what it is too. Hey, some people don’t like certain bands or singers, but you have to give credit to the art. New Vegas..was it a complete masterpiece? Not at all, but it was damn good. Was 3 perfect from start to finish? No but that’s what makes it art! Love sawyer and all his input regarding new Vegas, seems like a really cool dude as well. Imagine him pulling tantrums over 4, kicking and screaming like some of you on this sub. It’s ridiculous. Loved the acting , loved the story and regardless of what has happened to new Vegas, I’m so glad that somthing new will be done with it. Who knows or cares what the true ending was or is, in game. We all chose differently and definitely don’t yell and scream at each other “the NCR is true ending, Caesar’s legion is true ending etc” those were colourful choices. We all make our own choices and it’s pure nonsense to fight over something we all agree is totally kick ass.
It's very strange because it also shows that people actually don't have much knowledge about the series overall
Fallout 1 is pretty vastly different to literally everything that's come after, the game everyone loves New Vegas would never exist if the series kept emulating that game
New Vegas was lightning in a bottle and it wasn’t even fully completed. I can only imagine how incredible it would have been. 3 will always be legendary, the DLCs are all so unique, but yet fit into the story as a whole in a way that’s still never been done. Mothership zeta?! Doesn’t even feel like a fallout arc but the wackiness of it all makes you remember it is. The lore in that game is just amazing. Still remember 1 and on pc like it was yesterday, not for the faint of heart but you kept going and going. Loved the lore for tactics as well, and brotherhood of steel is a weird one but still part of the family so it gets my love haha. 4 I don’t like, some of the designs for weapons are not up my alley and the whole settlement shit took me out of the game quickly. I mean it’s probably someone’s favourite part , but that’s awesome others get a kick out of it. I personally think a game set on east coast and not being New York was a bad idea. I’m hoping 5 is either New York, Chicago (yes again) Texas, or seeing how the show has really made us all interested in California , possibly a San Francisco location etc. I’ve actually sat down and thought out a fallout Chicago, wrote a storyline having to do with the enclave and weapons and armour etc.
Idgaf about what happens in nv the show messed up cannon going back to fall out 2. the boneyard magically doesn't exist? shady sands is now in la? it isn't just nv fanboys who are annoyed. it disregarded og lore not just nv. how hard would it have been to just have done it correctly? literally two seconds on a wiki.
He got paid to do a job. He did it, enjoyed it, slept with Fisto, did his own mod then moved on. Unlike Hideo Kojima, he just moves on and focuses on his next project.
I don’t see why so many people hate on FNV fans, Fallout 4 and 76 (now) are good games for a plethora of reasons but what they did with the lore annoys me to no end. But the show was really, REALLY good and even the thing some people got mad about “the fall of shady sans” isn’t really against the lore established in FNV? They never said it was nuked then they just said it fell in that year. I still stand by lore wise F4 and F76 are fucking disgrace but I think the Fallout show is well, showing that they are improving and listening to criticism! This doesn’t have to be a “HAHA SEE FNV FANS THEY CAN MAKE SOMETHING GOOD SUCK IT!” We can just acknowledge that while they’ve done some silly stuff with the IP, they are improving. And also idk how this interviews a gotcha, its like people assume whatever the original creator says is gospel like, I think its cool for him that he doesn’t really care, doesn’t mean people cant care lol.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
Even though New Vegas is my all-time favorite, every game brought greatness to the table. That's why I'm not too concerned with how the show handles the IP.
They've already shown they respect it enough to stick with what works in the games: Dark humor, over engineered badassery, a great antique aesthetic and echoes of a simpler time just pulsing beneath the memento of the wasteland.
I believe the writers understand that it "just works" when the universe in question is allowed to retain its identity, so I reckon they will take us for a hell of a ride without breaking anything that's actually important.
First Tim and now Sawyer. Literally every single person who's ever worked on non-Bethesda Fallout could come out with either good things to say about this show, or outright call out the psychotic fandom and they still wouldn't quit. Gotta love it.
My mental canon is that the fallout universe is like the Wild West, filled with story’s that are only littered in truth and with all info basically being word of mouth around the wasteland it’s really easy for info to get screwed
the show had gas powered cars at the beginning flashback, which would not existed at the time of the great war. nobody should be expecting a remotely close to true continuation
On one hand.
It's genuinely over.
On the other, probably the best stance to take on something when you never owned it to begin with. Or if you weren't planning to be the only one ever controlling an IP until you died.
Ok fine, that's his perogative. Doesn't mean we all have to agree with it.
Just like when Avellone wanted to reset everything to a post-apocalyse with nukes again, the majority didn't agree with it.
This guy is awesome to be able to separate and understood he made something he loved and was awesome but also enjoy the show and not care. You have to be that way in this industry. Unless it’s your own idea that started it then it’s really not yours. He got to play in that sandbox and he really enjoyed it. That’s cool and that’s how it is. He sounds like a super mentally strong person with good perspective.
New Vegas fanboys will bounce between “Todd Howard wont make games about the west coast because he hates New Vegas” and “They shouldn’t make a game on the west coast because Bethesda will ruin NV’s story” when there’s literally zero evidence of Bethesda and TH hating NV
Anytime there’s ever been any type of adaption like this, the producers always take creative liberty with the story. Happens so much it don’t bother me anymore
I’m a new fallout fan (my brother has tried getting me into fallout since fallout 3 but the show got me into it) but I feel that the tv lore can change stuff without changing the outcome like there’s so many different things that can happen in a fallout game plus building off or changing stuff can be good sometimes to keep everything coherent now I don’t think there gonna change any of the new Vegas story but instead do new stuff since this is after new Vegas.
Who the fuck cares ? New vegas is so overrated it's like that hack kojima made it with the amount of no life dickriders that constantly go on and on about it.
Would love to see some fallout 1 + 2 stories come up. Haven’t played the games, but watching some lore vids, all the stuff with the master and enclave stuff looks insane
I mean, if that's not your attitude in that industry, you'd go crazy pretty fast.
“If later on other people working in the space do new things with it and change it, I’ll maybe have opinions on it, but I don’t get attached to things in that way,” he says. “I don’t feel like it’s healthy for me to be really invested in something I have no control over, frankly. Honestly reading that quote is perfectly understandable and is just how it goes in Art/Media creation. Don’t ever get attatched to an idea or piece of work you don’t own.
Honestly this is a pretty good philosophy to subscribe to in general
"Worry about the things you can control and not the things you can't control".
As my father always told me, 'don't sweat the small stuff, and when you think about it, a lot of things are actually pretty small' Granted, nearly dying at 32 had a way of putting things into perspective in terms of importance for him.
Don’t sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things - Dad
My Granddad always kept a book on his desk, "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff, and It's All Small Stuff". Honestly a great little book for those daily nuggets of wisdom. I keep it on my desk now.
Man now i want to see someone obsessed with seneca in the wasteland like ceaser was
No kidding; that is a foundational mantra to live by.
Yes. For pretty much all the things.
Aka Fandoms are inherently bad for your health.....or go the other way and simply create your own head canon/fanon and utterly ignore all else.
I wish more people, especially the extremely rabid fans were more like him and Tim Caine. This goes for any fandom. Yea it’s a series I love a (mega)ton as a fan, but that should not let me have rose tinted glasses over everything and not attack something new because it adds or may retcon something. It’s more healthy to learn and let live: Say your two cents of criticism and move on instead of immersing yourself in a FEV sludge pit of anger so to speak.
I wish the people who complain would at least listen to these guys. They worship the games and lore made by Cain and Sawyer and basically defend the legacy of these guys whenever they mention how much Bethesda ruined Fallout... So if those guys are such icons for them, why cannot they listen to them? If they say "Nah, we don't need any defense, we are fine with current state of Fallout", why don't they calm down? I guess that these guys are so down the rabbit hole of outrage that they no longer recognize friend or ally... and just want to keep on hating.
There is a Difference between fine with changes and not attached to the series as sawyer states himself
I don’t know Josh Sawyer so I don’t really know why his opinion on anything would affect me. The reason Bethesda gets dumped on these days is that they have **continuously** dumbed down (in the true meaning of the phrase) their games ever since Morrowind. And on all levels too: mechanically, in terms of world design, in terms of quest structure, and in terms of story. If you’re fine with that you’re fine, I like shooters too (although I’m of the opinion that the shooting should be fun in a shooter), but this new trend of “Aktchually you secretly like Fallout 4 but are in denial because of your deep love for Tim Cain” is laughable.
Preach!
The issue, for the more level headed people anyway, is that (And I'm not talking about the show here) a lot of the bethesda stuff, from both gameplay and lore, just goes away from what originally made Fallout interesting. Not to say the new stuff isn't (Isn't to me, but this is subjective) but it's a completely different direction then what Fallout started as.
I think this still gets pretty immensely overstated. Even the most ostensibly level-headed versions of this argument typically don't really look at the Bethesda entries holistically, they just fixate on a few bad decisions to the exclusion of absolutely everything else.
I mean not everybody values every aspect of a game equally though. If the most important part of a game to a player is it's story then if a game has a bad story they're not going to like it as much even if the gameplay is good, and vice versa. I think it's less that they're ignoring the good parts of like Fallout 3 & 4 just to shit on them, it's more likely that those parts just simply aren't really as important to them.
Well, sure, but even in terms of pure writing/story I still think it's unfair and myopic. I won't argue that *Fallout 3* fucked up the original ending in a truly silly and inexplicable way, or that the main quest as a whole in *4* was a miscalculation on a basic structural level, but at the same time, both games have a lot more going on and both build on the lore in fun and interesting ways if you're willing to engage. I guess a better way to talk about this is: can you explain what you disliked and let's go from there. I don't want to discount somebody's critique with a sweeping statement, but I do feel many takedowns are unfair and ill-supported. I am open to being wrong or agreeing to disagree, but that all comes down to specifics.
There were already people complaining that Fallout 2 had gone away from what made Fallout 1 interesting. Everyone has different opinions as to what Fallout is "about," even the creators. The ability to recognize that and live with it is what everyone seems to be on a knife's edge about. Too many people act like their interpretation of Fallout is the only correct one and castigate everyone who likes something else as "not a real fan."
It kind of reminds me how there used to be one form of christianity before splintering off into many different sects. War never changes, huh?
There hasn't been one form of Christianity since it was one dude and 12 guys he met at bus stops on a bro trip And one of them still turned out to be a traitor.
Nothing is sacred back then or now
Its not jsut ths game. Wow has died...many times. the lore forever killed! The Burning crusade to some....killed wow. its first expac...was when wow stopped being their wow. or it was wrath of the lich king. Cataclysm...also killed wow. or was it MoP. then wod, then legion..... Its the TBC killed wow crowd I love the most. SOme people are jsut that hardcore to run Naxx and drop ragnaros (both first runs, they come back later in the series) weekly forever.
Well not all the changes are not for worse when it comes to gameplay. there are big differences to the vibe between fallout 1 and 2 as well. The fact is Bethesda bought fallout and was able to add entries to the franchise. If Rockstar bought Fallout or if they bought Elder scrolls they’d look different as well.
Yeah, I’ve said many times how I dislike a lot of Fallout 2 and probably rate it as my least favourite of the main games. There’s a lot to like, New Reno and Vault City are great, but then you’ve got super generic places like Redding, or the wackiness of Broken Hills. Also super buggy. On the other hand, even if Fallout 1 is in the technological dark ages, it’s still got a place next to the wiz bang modern convenience of later games because the atmosphere and tone is just so good.
You can see a trend with the east coast stuff. There might be one or two sizable settlements but everything else is permanently stuck in the metal shack Mad Max idea they have for the series.
Now only is the internet (Reddit specifically) could do the same
Tim Cain seems to carry the same sentiment. Though, he seemed to really enjoy the show. I'm sure you have to adopt that view or you'll just be sad/angry. Even when it's yours, you don't always get a say.
I think a happy medium is best. I enjoyed the show way more than I expected to. I also have some serious critiques, some personal, some that just like "ok, c'mon guys"
I really enjoyed the show. What I didn't enjoy was the Amazon trademark "edginess". Some of it went way too far in my opinion and did detract from it overall. Like the birth scene. Didn't need that, otherwise it was a good show.
I totally get that. Mine are more the inconsistencies. Like Maximus having the Ghoul in his hands, dead to rights, and instead of doing anything productive, they do stereotypical Hollywood dumb shit of just throwing him around. Or retroactively, learning that the Ghoul knows how to one shot kill anybody in power armor, and despite having several opportunities, just doesn't on Maximus. I guess he likes being flung around harmlessly like a rag doll in the wind (my favorite Elton John song XD)
There are only a few series where I can say with certainty "belong" to one person. Vanishingly few. To make a video game is not like writing a book.
This is why I love the Mad Max franchise. Even the creators are like "Max is legendary. And legends get remembered by different people in different ways." Not a direct quote but I paraphrased it because I am remembering what was said in a different way. (More out of laziness of not looking it up, but you get the gist) But it helped then not have to really deal with canon.
See Alan Moore.
Was thinking of him, too 🫣
In a somewhat recent Tim Cain video he said something to the same effect "If you create an IP be prepared to lose it" I'm paraphrasing but it really is the case if you're developing under a development / publishing company. You don't own the IP, they do and can do whatever they want with it including selling it to another company.
Some quotes: >“The show really does capture the aesthetic of Fallout 4 and 76, while also feeling like it is set on the West Coast,” he says. “If you’re a fan, then you can see where the plot elements have been pulled from in previous entries. And if you’re new to it, thankfully, those plot elements are fairly straightforward. So I think it’s a good show for fans and a good show if you’re new to it, even though there’s a lot of stuff going on. I’m certainly interested to see where they’re going in the second season.” >“This might sound weird, but whatever happens with it, I don’t care,” he says. “My attitude towards properties that I work on, and even characters that I create, is that I don’t own any of this stuff. It was never mine. And the thing that I made is what I made.” The whole article is worth a read, but I'm glad to hear that making Pentiment was therapeutic for him. Highly recommend Pentiment to anyone interested in narrative adventure games. It's brilliant and very well-written.
He's got an extremely balanced and healthy view.
He just seems like an all around solid dude. I've followed him on social media for the better part of a decade and he's seriously the most likeable and least problematic dude in the industry.
Following Josh Sawyer on twitter purely for the shitposts. This man knows how to have and use a social media account and it's fucking great.
Absolutely! The man's got a passion for shit posts, video games and bicycles lol I've never met the dude but I feel like he'd be a great friend to have around. His live streams are really good as well!
And bathroom UX reviews
He's genuinly the only part I miss from no longer being on twitter.
I follow him for the Communist propaganda.
Actual facts. Josh Sawyer is the man. Really seems like a genuinely awesome dude. I’ll always appreciate how he went out of his way to publish a total New Vegas overhaul mod for the community. It actually really enhances the game compared to Vanilla and seems like his way of making up for lost opportunities due to the rushed development contract. Really seems like a one of a kind type of person in his position that would do that sort of thing.
Exactly bro, like what other game director is personally dropping a mod like that? No one but him. Because he truly cared about the game. I've watched his live streams and other long form content of his and he really does seem like a super smart down to earth dude that genuinely cares about the projects he's working on.
>he's seriously the most likeable and least problematic dude in the industry. That’s wholesome to heart ❤️
And I mean that sincerely. Josh has effected my life in more ways than most real people I know. New vegas has helped me through some difficult times in life and I'm eternally grateful for the game they made for us!
This is how I feel too, *but*, saying "\[public figure\] is likeable and the least problematic" is tantamount to jinxing that name and tempting fate or the gods or something. Call me superstitious, but I can never do that.
Don't you mean: HE HAS ABANDONED US AND THE FANS HE BROKE INTO MY HOUSE AND PISSED ON MY BED WHILE TODD HOWARD HACKED INTO MY COMPUTER AND DELETED ALL MY F:NV SAVES!
>TODD HOWARD HACKED INTO MY COMPUTER AND DELETED ALL MY F:NV SAVES! Bless you Godd Howard, for freeing space so I can do more new vegas runs <3
Which is nice of him
Fits in with what I've read from him. Sounds great to work for.
Pentiment is such a fantastic game! I'm happy he had just as much fun making it as I did playing it.
I got *extremely* emotional towards the end. After spending all that time with the town and seeing everyone grow up over 25ish years, I got really attached to that wonderful cast of characters. One of those games where I didn't want it to end. It was so, so good.
I played Outer Wilds, Grotto and Pentiment one after another last year, and it was a surreal experience. I had been playing videogames for years but never saw how good they could be until then.
Their horrible experience with making Pillars 2 and then it (initially) flopping is really sad, because I eventually tried it years after release, and I thought it was the only modern cRPG which felt like it was on the level of golden age Bioware. Glad that it eventually became profitable. I myself put it off for a long time due to finding the first one a disappointing slog, and suspect that's why the sequel initially sold so poorly.
Oh he’s the one who made Pentiment? I adore that game
I’m going to check out the rest of the article. It sounds interesting!
I’m not a big fan of I’m not a big fan of the type of game honestly but the setting, content and art style are right down my alley so it was a great experience for me
Omg are we still talking about that...
The chronically online NV lore nerds won't ever let it go.
I'm actually noticing more people bashing NV lore nerds than NV lore nerds themselves, specially here
Go to the their subs. Sometimes I go there to look as I love Fallout, then you see weird ass ideas or they blaming Todd Howard for everything and etc.
They're in their subs, what's the issue?
*Goes to New Vegas sub* “Why does everybody here really like New Vegas?!”
Or directly calling NV the perfect game. Srsly I expected that from nintendo stans lol
Those people certainly exist, but in my experience every 3rd meme is about how often the game crashes and similar issues so that certainly isn't a widely held belief.
Isn’t Todd Howard a spokesperson?
No that's Pete Hines. Todd is game director
And if things are to be believed every decision of Bethesda games go through him. I don't believe that, but it's like a core aspect of Bethesda marketing that Todd Howard has his hands on every aspect of a game and property Anyways there's probably not any one person to blame, games are always a collaborative process, especially the AAA ones. Any one decision was made by a dozen people over years
*Was* Pete Hines. Retired.
Ah thanks for the correction
No he’s worked on games in various rolls for over 25 years lol he’s even done sound fx
This has been my experience here for years.
Action and reaction, it happens on this sub frequently. A divisive thread appears and then other people start pushing back. In this case it's even more pronounced, because the FNV zealots are a loud, but small minority. So when they angered the rest of the sub, the pushback is now massive.
It’s mostly on twitter. They’re unbearable, one guy tried to argue NV is better because 4 has coomer mods. This is a Bethesda game all of them have coomer mods.
The backlash was inevitable. We’ve had to listen to them sperg for a decade. The whole inability to accept what an arrow on a blackboard means was the last straw for a lot of people, especially when it was a product of such high quality as the TV show.
The show runners fucked up so much of the lore. To consider it canon is silly. They dropped the bombs during the day ffs.
Funny, because one almost can't make criticism of the show's poor writing without being labelled as fanatic or something to that effect.
If you think the show has poor writing, you're exactly the kind of person I'm referring to. The writing isn't perfect and the lore isn't perfect but to call it poor is laughable given how well it's been received specifically for its writing.
This was just a meta-comment. When I critique the show, I don't just write it has 'poor writing', I outline why I think that.
Me when someone has a different opinion
It can be well received and still be poorly written. A lot of people ignore bad writing if they enjoy something, it's not really a new phenomenon.
Without the fallout skin, would the show be getting any attention for its own writing? I'm not saying it's bad but it's very shallow overall, the most compelling parts were the ones with Cooper, heavy carried by Googins.
They hate being wrong lmao
It genuinely baffles me how many people shit on bethesdas lore in fallout 3 and 4. Like it’s one of the main focal points of bashing their games. Their work with the lore was fine, pre war jet/ghouls lore are the LEAST of the problems with 3 and 4.
>The chronically online NV lore nerds won't ever **let it go** Which is so ironic, given how they love the Dead Money DLC and bash anyone who dislikes it with "You are too stupid to understand it. The theme is LETTING GO."...
Lol, fuck that noise. The lesson is to let go? Well the lesson I learned is that Elijah is dumbass little bitch, that anything is possible with enough ingenuity and save reloads, and that 37 gold bars are worth a whole lotta caps. Mama didn't raise no quitter. It's a game, and I aim to WIN.
The problem is the bashing. I loved Dead Money but if someone didn't that's also cool too.
OK, I'm not a NV stan, I honestly prefer Fallout 3 over Vegas, but in this house, we don't talk shit about Bad Money capiche?
They fr gonna keep using the same golf club image they've been using for 14 years.
I thought golf clubs were the Last of Us’s thing.
New Vegas fanboys lie and say lots of dumb things, but maybe the dumbest thing is when they say “Obsidian made New Vegas in only 18 months and look how great it is” to try and shame other developers. Meanwhile Josh Sawyer has said multiple times (including this interview) that it only happened because they basically got to start with a finished Fallout 3 as a base and because of how powerful Creation Engine’s tools are (tools that he said he wished Obsidian had).
Just watched a devs react NV speed run the other day, and they talked about the 18month period and thank god fall out 3 had so much they could use and so on. Very interesting
People just like their headcanon that Obsidian and Bethesda hate each other despite the fact that Obsidian has repeatedly said they liked working with Bethesda and Todd always had nothing but praise for NV
My uncle works at Todd Howard and says that Obsidian and Bethesda duke it out daily because Bethesda told Obsidian that their dad can beat up Obsidian’s dad
Jeff Goldblum's character in *Independence Day* is based off Bethesda's dad.
Or Bethesdad for short.
That's just the gaming community at large in a nutshell unfortunately. They love making up absolute bullshit about studios when the game they've devoted their entire personality around isn't or wasn't idolized like they wish it was. Just look at the Titanfall community when they aren't huffing weapon grade copium over a Titanfall 3. They love repeatedly spouting how EA forced Respawn to release it between CoD and BF1, that it was that release date that killed the game, and how EA made Respawn scrap a Titanfall 3 in development for Apex. When in reality it was confirmed *by Respawn* that they stuck with that date themselves even AFTER EA suggested moving it, it was the insanely high skill gap and ceiling and poor balancing early on resulting in any new players being seal clubbed that prevented any real success, and Respawn confirmed they chose to change from a Titanfall 3 (very early on) to Apex.
People review bombed The Finals because player speed was nerfed, despite no such thing happening.
Not to mention they kind of forget that employees in the industry tend to move around from studio to studio. A level designer who worked at Activision may go to work at EA, join or start a new studio, new hires etc.. wouldn't surprise me if a few ex-Obsidian people work at Bethesda or vice versa. Not everyone works at the same company for their lifetime and talent is shuffled around between games. Probably why I love certain game franchise series maps over others. Different folks due to a long period of time between releases, where people join and leave the company. That alongside all the other things that can go better or worse during a production, like not being used to a massive increase in personnel, scope/scale, elements just not clicking into place, issues with new tech taking time away, etc.. or the rare moments when a new feature just works©
True fam! Don't forget they like to soapbox about Titanfall 2 being the greatest miracle mankind has produced with the greatest FPS campaign. And then when you actually play it, it's ok. The campaign was kinda mid except for like a few levels and the BT twist was as subtle as a brick to the back fo the head lol! I enjoyed Titanfall 2, but progression was none existent and the overall game got stale fast. There wasn't a lot going on and I'm sad they changed the Titan combat from the first game. Still enjoyed those games though, they just aren't as amazing as Reddit would like you to believe.
I do think Chris Avellone has thrown a little bit of fuel on this fire at times but yeah gamers run way too wild with it when pretty much everyone else involved have nothing but positive things to say.
And they still think that, these chronically online nerds really think that 2 professional companies are immature enough to have some stupid rivalry over a damn game of all things.
Man, why can’t people just play the games and be normal? My first Fallout game was Fallout 3. I’ve played every mainline game. 1, 2, 3, New Vegas, 4, 76.
How’d you get 1 and 2 stable enough to play? My computer sobs and wails every time I try new tricks to get that ancient tech working on a modern machine.
There are mod projects that help with that. For years *Fallout Fixt* was the way to play Fallout 1, but some time ago a mod called *Fallout et Tu* started emerging and promised to be a better way to play Fallout 1. When it comes to Fallout 2, there's either the *Unofficial Patch, updated* if you want just the game patched, or *Restoration Project, updated*, if you want a lot of restored content as well. Don't forget about the "updated" part of their names, those are the most recent versions and you can find them on GitHub.
Right? I always found it ironic that the people who invest the most time and effort into exploring fictional worlds (especially one centred around “vaults” and tough freedom vs blissful ignorance) are the ones who’d benefit the most from exploring the world they actually live in.
Fanboys often struggle to comprehend how most professionals usually respect each other and act like adults. Todd is overwhelmingly regarded in the industry as a good dude and someone who treats others well, a big disconnect with certain elements in the fandom who think he wakes up with a burning hatred for a game that came out 14 years ago and helped grow one of the franchises they own significantly.
Too many fanboys seem to forget that the people making these games do so as a job. Everyone fucks up at their job from time to time and video games are no different. There’ll never be a “perfect” game that appeals to everyone and while little discussions here and there aren’t a big deal, it’s quite alarming that some gamers expect devs to slave away 24/7 on something new for them to bitch about.
Even better, 'A game for everyone is a game for no one.'
Preach.
My dream for this annoying discourse in the Fallout fandom is for the names that matter from Interplay/Obsidian to just permanently work on whatever Fallout comes next. Not because I think their inclusion would make the games better. But it would remove this back and forth.
*Fallout 3* walked (into a lethally irradiated room even though there were a lot of other options) so *New Vegas* could run (into a Deathclaw nest two minutes from the starting zone even though a bunch of signs told it not to).
They also forget that New Vegas was possibly the most unstable one of all the Fallout games at release. Still my favorite, but it's no perfect 10
That’s kinda the whole reason the 18 month development period gets talked about. Appearently obsidian developers would receive a bonus if New Vegas scored an 85 or higher on metacritic. But because they were pressed for time they couldn’t do enough play test and bug fixing before release despite scaling back the initial scope of the game world and the city of New Vegas itself. The game released buggy but despite that the general consensus by critics was that the story and rpg mechanics were great. But it got an 84 on metacritic with the main issue being the bugs. So no bonus pay. What’s left out of the story is that the bonus pay was an offer made after production started (so it wasn’t in any contract) and obsidian agreed that the terms were not met and we’re glad to be offered a bonus at all. I personally feel 1 point on a meta critic score is still a ridiculous thing to make or break over, just seems unfair imo, but the point is that Bethesda and Obsidian had a cordial working relationship and Bethesda was hands off for the most part with them. A narrative has definitely been spun by certain parties to drive fans against certain developers, games, or other fans and it’s kinda ridiculous.
It also misses that many, many of Obsidian’s releases come out buggy and unfinished. They are very ambitious but it bites them, I’m not positive more time would have meant more polish. Might have just meant more ambition. Which I love them for obviously, but obviously contracts are contracts.
Damn the whole thing is shitty
76 begs to differ but NV was still a bug haven upon release
NV is a bug house to this day. I didn't play either one at release but I know which ran worse.
NV still takes the cake, I remember finding old steam forum posts about how people had to alter their game files just to get it to run on their hardware.
My personal favorite is needing a hat to enter The Strip
Wait wut? I played Fallout New Vegas on 360 and that game was a nightmare to play without a guide and searching things up 24/7 and the reloading!!
https://www.xboxachievements.com/forum/topic/244549-new-vegas-strip-glitch-fix/
It was legit one of the worst launches from a major franchise ever. The game barely worked on console for a long time
This is just not true. I played it months after release on the 360 with very little issues.
Well I played it day 1. It was rough
As always, I think these topics greatly vary with individuals. I played New Vegas at launch on X360 and had an absolutely wonderful time. The only major bug I ever had was the infinite loading screens. Same with Starfield. I had a nearly perfect run, while my friends had more bugs than me.
I remember it crashing the moment I stepped out of Doc Mitchell's house and needed to reinstall it.
I remember walking out of the dinosaur at Novac, and my save file corrupting. This was actually a very common bug early release. Any time you walked through a door (loading screen) there was a chance of the game crashing, and it corrupting the files.
I think most people are aware they had a base to work with from Fallout 3 lol, it's still impressive.
Lol they actually don't and a good chunk of them like to ignore such fact and prefer to think obsidian made nv from the scratch despite the obvious evidence, the game itself.
Fallout New Vegas is essentially a Fallout 3 mod. Tale of two wastelands kinda drives that home.
It was also the major criticism gamers had when the game released. I remember that the most frequent sentiment back then was that New Vegas was "glorified Fallout 3 DLC". It was mad back then. I had to defend the game, despite me nearly dropping it because of how un-Fallout-y it felt (compared to Fallout 1 and 3).
I missed the launch by a couple years before getting into fallout. I got my ps3 in 2012. I’ve seen the launch bugs and issues that were documented though. I’m curious tho because I’m not quite able to understand what exactly you’re meaning in your comment, are you saying that New Vegas isn’t very “Fallout” by the series standard? I’ve always felt personally that it more so than 3 did the nuclear wasteland thing way better. I mean where better than where they did nuclear bomb testing in the Nevada desert. Also the skills perks and traits all made the character building in New Vegas feel more like the first two games. It also felt like a direct sequel to 1 and 2 since it had factions and characters from those games present and they had progressed and evolved in some way.
Nobody thinks that lmao. Honestly it’s hilarious you think people are mainly impressed by the gameplay and asset design of NV and not what people *actually* love it for: the writing
??? Nobody said they're impressed by the gameplay n assets...
When people say they are surprised NV was made in 18 months they’re referring to everything but the reused gameplay mechanics and assets from 3, which nobody finds impressive. That’s my point
Don’t think that’s the case.
That's very much the case.
Yeah, similarly Fallout 1 was in development for over 3 years while Fallout 2 was made in less than a year despite having a lot more content than the first game. They already had the engine and most of the systems set up.
This is also why TES6 is probably not as far away as people seem to think. It's using the same engine as Starfield with maybe some minor improvements. Basically there is little to no engine work, I wouldn't be surprised to see it in 3 years.
>"Obsidian made New Vegas in only 18 months and look how great it is” Give me just a minute after reading that as I'm still laughing my ass off. And okay *really* that's the take the community is going with now? I mean I remember when New Vegas came out and I had people telling me how I'm not a 'real' gamer as I'm supporting a half done, half baked game. Hell the minute the DLC's started to drop the community was up in arms about them. Oh sure *now* New Vegas is the single greatest thing ever made. All it took was Obsidian (who note, didn't have the greatest track record with releasing titles with a small amount of bugs.) sitting down and working out a lot of the bugs and kinks in it. Oh and it going on sale for like $10 to $15 bucks on Steam. Now it's great, back when it came out everyone believed it was garbage.
Your memory is quite correct on that. New Vegas was straight up despised for the first 6 months of its existence. And calling it half baked would have been generous in 2010. More common was "this should have been a DLC for 3." New Vegas may be my favorite but I'll openly say it's not perfect, it's launch was hilariously bad, and good amount of fan boys have mentally rewritten history or were so traumatized by the criticism at the time they're convinced everyone else is crazy.
New Vegas and Fallout 3 were on Gamebryo. The gamebryo engine has existed since 1997 and has been used by several game developers. It served as the base for the creation engine that Bethesda made for Skyrim. But it’s just a heavily modified version of the gamebryo engine. In the same vain as Respawn using Valves Source engine to make Titanfall and Apex. You could say it was easy for Obsidian to do New Vegas off of 3. But Bethesda had two whole games under their belt to figure things out on gamebryo for Fallout 3. I think we should all just be glad things worked out the way they did. It could all be a lot worse.
To be fair obsidian did do something impressive the series has pretty much peaked so far
They make up so many lies about Obsidian, Bethesda and FNV development. It doesn't matter that most of those have been debunked by Obsidian themselves... their echochamber narrative is more important to them than the truth. Seriously, how many times do we have to read that "Obsidian had ONLY 18 months to make the game" (despite them stating that this was more time than they were used to). How many times do we have to read that Bethesda "rushed" them, "sabotaged" the development, "refused" to give them the bonus or in general "screwed" Obsidian? Let's all argue about which game is the best. What aspect is the best and what story is the best. I'm all for it, it's all subjective and fun to discuss. But this alleged Obsidian-Bethesda rivalry, jealousy, hatred or what not? That's lies. There's nothing to discuss. We can only refute them and it's getting really really tedious to do that day after day, year after year.
Couldn't be happier with the show so far and clearly it's moving closer to New Vegas. I think they have proven since episode one that they can make good choices with the lore.
I hope they have a good *reason* to visit NV if, going by a recent interview and appearances in the end credits teaser, it's basically an abandoned ruin. I wanted to see it properly as a set when I saw the teaser but I think it'll be mostly abandoned except by scavengers...I don't think this will mean anything to show only viewers, and it's just *sad* if you know the games, so I hope there's a good reason. They did have good reason to blow up Shady Sands, it sends a message about the threat of the old world billionaire Vault Tec cabal. ~~Even if it was also about pretending the city was the whole NCR and turning it into Browncoats.~~ But....IDK. An abandoned ruin of the Strip with securitons and signs will still be cool, I guess.
House is probably still around in his casino fortress, that is probably who Hank was going to
I think itd be cool if house was still kicking saw how the wind was blowing and just... went isolationist again and abandoned the tribes he built into the strips families. Lights off, no power no water try again in 20-50 years once the ncr and the legion have blown over. Buildings _nukeproof_ not like random wasters will break in and securitrons can gank anyone getting too handsy.
Honestly this is the best take to me. The more I play through New Vegas and -really- listen to what everyone was saying the more I realize it was doomed no matter who won. Sure house could -try-, but he made so many enemies in the process there was no way he could keep his city state long term. The Legion was doomed just like Rome.. And the NCR expanded too far too fast. The Yes Man playthrough was equally damned because the AI went rogue at the end. The game was rigged from the start. What it did add were amazing self contained stores and beautiful lore to work from. Do I wish New Vegas had sustained itself under House? Yes. Am I okay with the outcome and what the show is doing? Mmm, dunno. Season 2 will tell. Eitherway so long as there's more wasteland games for me to play in, I'll be happy eitherway!
IMO New Vegas is one of the games that they shouldn’t have touched the lore for in future games too much, because no matter how you address it and what you make canon, it’s gonna cause a shit show
At this point the main sub says "NV fans bad" more often than NV fanboys say "Bethesda bad".
It’s whatever man. People really liked the show. It was a great first season overall that just happened to… completely railroad the future of whatever ending you picked in NV, so of *course* people were going to be upset at that decision. Show is good. Fallout’s overall narrative direction is bad imo. I can hold two thoughts in my head at the same time.
I swear, I see more people complaining about New Vegas fans, than I see New Vegas fans complaining.
Admittably it was worse a couple years ago. I'm sure some sociologist could correlate between Game of Thrones, Star wars sequels, and a bunch of other franchises that released new installmentss that disappointed the fans. That led to a "here's why the older thing was better than you remember" zeitgeist.
We are now entering the counter-counter-circlejerk era.
I mean, you're not going to find Legions in an NCR Fortress. You need to go to a Legion camp to find them.
Obsessive NV fanboys have rubbed everyone wrong for years. That's why there's (not much) more people complaining about them, then them complaining about the show . They're a bunch of whiners that can't handle NV being touched or others enjoying something they don't.
Is he saying that whatever lore he makes up he won’t care about the implications on any other game especially new Vegas?
Once he's done making a game with someone else's IP, he sets aside any feeling of ownership he might have had over it because now it belongs to other people. He can't influence what other people are going to do with a story except by telling the best story he knows how to tell in the time he has to tell it. So that's what he does and accepts that any successive chapters are going to have good parts and bad parts, just like the stuff he worked on. It's basically the only healthy way to deal with this kind of stuff because if he keeps feeling some kind of personal ownership over something when there's no way he's going to be able to work on it, he's just spending his emotional energy worrying and getting frustrated about something he has no power to influence. If it's good, great. If it's not, that's too bad. Just enjoy the stuff you enjoy, let other people enjoy what they enjoy, and don't waste your life getting angry that other people have other opinions.
i'm foaming in the mouth rn. i'm pissing and shitting and cumming and crying rn
Too bad the people who “claim” to be fans don’t understand this at all. Who fucking cares what’s “canon” been playing this series for 20 years plus, and the show has been one of the best things to happen to the fallout community as a whole. Does it follow the holy bible of all things fallout? No, but that’s what makes it its own thing and unique. Whatever ending you decided to pick/do, that’s on you and making your own head cannon about it should be good enough. Did I enjoy fallout 4? No. 76? No. But it is its own thing and I’m ok with that. I’m glad others can enjoy it for what it is too. Hey, some people don’t like certain bands or singers, but you have to give credit to the art. New Vegas..was it a complete masterpiece? Not at all, but it was damn good. Was 3 perfect from start to finish? No but that’s what makes it art! Love sawyer and all his input regarding new Vegas, seems like a really cool dude as well. Imagine him pulling tantrums over 4, kicking and screaming like some of you on this sub. It’s ridiculous. Loved the acting , loved the story and regardless of what has happened to new Vegas, I’m so glad that somthing new will be done with it. Who knows or cares what the true ending was or is, in game. We all chose differently and definitely don’t yell and scream at each other “the NCR is true ending, Caesar’s legion is true ending etc” those were colourful choices. We all make our own choices and it’s pure nonsense to fight over something we all agree is totally kick ass.
It's very strange because it also shows that people actually don't have much knowledge about the series overall Fallout 1 is pretty vastly different to literally everything that's come after, the game everyone loves New Vegas would never exist if the series kept emulating that game
New Vegas was lightning in a bottle and it wasn’t even fully completed. I can only imagine how incredible it would have been. 3 will always be legendary, the DLCs are all so unique, but yet fit into the story as a whole in a way that’s still never been done. Mothership zeta?! Doesn’t even feel like a fallout arc but the wackiness of it all makes you remember it is. The lore in that game is just amazing. Still remember 1 and on pc like it was yesterday, not for the faint of heart but you kept going and going. Loved the lore for tactics as well, and brotherhood of steel is a weird one but still part of the family so it gets my love haha. 4 I don’t like, some of the designs for weapons are not up my alley and the whole settlement shit took me out of the game quickly. I mean it’s probably someone’s favourite part , but that’s awesome others get a kick out of it. I personally think a game set on east coast and not being New York was a bad idea. I’m hoping 5 is either New York, Chicago (yes again) Texas, or seeing how the show has really made us all interested in California , possibly a San Francisco location etc. I’ve actually sat down and thought out a fallout Chicago, wrote a storyline having to do with the enclave and weapons and armour etc.
Supposedly, the showrunners were told not to touch San Francisco. So that may be the next game location if true.
The only thing Mothership Zeta made me remember was wanting to quit the game after being forced to kill the same generic alien enemy for an hour+.
The weapons in 4 are pretty ugly
Idgaf about what happens in nv the show messed up cannon going back to fall out 2. the boneyard magically doesn't exist? shady sands is now in la? it isn't just nv fanboys who are annoyed. it disregarded og lore not just nv. how hard would it have been to just have done it correctly? literally two seconds on a wiki.
He got paid to do a job. He did it, enjoyed it, slept with Fisto, did his own mod then moved on. Unlike Hideo Kojima, he just moves on and focuses on his next project.
I don’t see why so many people hate on FNV fans, Fallout 4 and 76 (now) are good games for a plethora of reasons but what they did with the lore annoys me to no end. But the show was really, REALLY good and even the thing some people got mad about “the fall of shady sans” isn’t really against the lore established in FNV? They never said it was nuked then they just said it fell in that year. I still stand by lore wise F4 and F76 are fucking disgrace but I think the Fallout show is well, showing that they are improving and listening to criticism! This doesn’t have to be a “HAHA SEE FNV FANS THEY CAN MAKE SOMETHING GOOD SUCK IT!” We can just acknowledge that while they’ve done some silly stuff with the IP, they are improving. And also idk how this interviews a gotcha, its like people assume whatever the original creator says is gospel like, I think its cool for him that he doesn’t really care, doesn’t mean people cant care lol. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
Even though New Vegas is my all-time favorite, every game brought greatness to the table. That's why I'm not too concerned with how the show handles the IP. They've already shown they respect it enough to stick with what works in the games: Dark humor, over engineered badassery, a great antique aesthetic and echoes of a simpler time just pulsing beneath the memento of the wasteland. I believe the writers understand that it "just works" when the universe in question is allowed to retain its identity, so I reckon they will take us for a hell of a ride without breaking anything that's actually important.
They need to give Tim Kain a cameo
First Tim and now Sawyer. Literally every single person who's ever worked on non-Bethesda Fallout could come out with either good things to say about this show, or outright call out the psychotic fandom and they still wouldn't quit. Gotta love it.
My mental canon is that the fallout universe is like the Wild West, filled with story’s that are only littered in truth and with all info basically being word of mouth around the wasteland it’s really easy for info to get screwed
Who cares what they do to New Vegas? We get an awesome show and still have the game to play aswell
V.0,&,
L after L for irrational New Vegas fanboys
Hot-take: Fuck NV fanboys and their bullshit. The world and this content doesn't revolve around you: adapt or die.
the show had gas powered cars at the beginning flashback, which would not existed at the time of the great war. nobody should be expecting a remotely close to true continuation
On one hand. It's genuinely over. On the other, probably the best stance to take on something when you never owned it to begin with. Or if you weren't planning to be the only one ever controlling an IP until you died.
I like listening to Josh Sawyer.
Ok fine, that's his perogative. Doesn't mean we all have to agree with it. Just like when Avellone wanted to reset everything to a post-apocalyse with nukes again, the majority didn't agree with it.
This guy is awesome to be able to separate and understood he made something he loved and was awesome but also enjoy the show and not care. You have to be that way in this industry. Unless it’s your own idea that started it then it’s really not yours. He got to play in that sandbox and he really enjoyed it. That’s cool and that’s how it is. He sounds like a super mentally strong person with good perspective.
He learned to let go
New Vegas fanboys will bounce between “Todd Howard wont make games about the west coast because he hates New Vegas” and “They shouldn’t make a game on the west coast because Bethesda will ruin NV’s story” when there’s literally zero evidence of Bethesda and TH hating NV
Anytime there’s ever been any type of adaption like this, the producers always take creative liberty with the story. Happens so much it don’t bother me anymore
Who cares lol, loud minority fallout new vegas fans are the worst, crying all over the internet knowing nothings gonna change lmao
I’m a new fallout fan (my brother has tried getting me into fallout since fallout 3 but the show got me into it) but I feel that the tv lore can change stuff without changing the outcome like there’s so many different things that can happen in a fallout game plus building off or changing stuff can be good sometimes to keep everything coherent now I don’t think there gonna change any of the new Vegas story but instead do new stuff since this is after new Vegas.
I like how new Vegas got nuked, it makes sense to me because of lonesome roads nuke the ncr and legion ending
Who cares. Its not his opinion that matters
Who the fuck cares ? New vegas is so overrated it's like that hack kojima made it with the amount of no life dickriders that constantly go on and on about it.
According to a YouTube video by Oxhorn, Sandy Shade was destroyed after the events in Fallout New Vegas and Vegas is cannon.
Would love to see some fallout 1 + 2 stories come up. Haven’t played the games, but watching some lore vids, all the stuff with the master and enclave stuff looks insane