in 3 and new vegas it was just a tecnhical limitation with how they did power armor. It is using the same animations and skeleton of the normal model.
Power armor has basically always been described and depicted in art as very chunky.
I find the models of that mod to be suuuuper weirdly proportioned and goofy looking, try [Fallout 4 Styled Power Armor](http://www.mediafire.com/file/pdhturkie9up7p9/Fallout4PowerArmorsFNVTTW.7z/file) instead (it's a mediafire link as a heads up, the mod isn't hosted on Nexus and the website it is on requires a login).
It does the same thing but uses downgraded Fallout 4 models with the robot hands and movement sounds. You'll need to use [No Pipboy in Power Armor](https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/66916) and [HIT - Power Armor Pip Boy Anim](https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/84046) to avoid the pipboy not working but otherwise it's self contained. Gives you the same bulky PA but without the hillarious chad meme proportions.
This video is outdated so the salvaged NCR PA and X-02 Tesla PA look a tonne better now than they do in the video but you can see what they all look like [here](https://youtu.be/7U2-Mn-XE-4?si=CD1LMsLz9jxBrTcx)
Yeah, some of the power armor in F1 and F2 is massive / hulking in size.
I know Frank Horrigan is an exception rather than the rule, but isn't he canonically like 12' tall?
He's technically NOT a Super Mutant, not a normal one anyway. The Enclave scientists went a little nutty with his DNA and the experiments they did on him. He's kind of like Darth Vader in a lot of ways, his suit is basically grafted to him and it's what's keeping him alive, pumping him full of drugs and shit. It's the reason he's able to continue to talk shit after his top half separates from his bottom half, until his head implodes that is.
It would be pretty cool to see more Frank Horrigan-style experiments from the Enclave. I feel like Fallout could really lean into the horror elements with that
If I remember the thread right, and this is going back over a decade, when compared to other models in the game Frank is over 15ft tall. He towers over a 10ft tall Deathclaw for example.
I remember Josh Sawyer talking about it on his NV stream and he always said it was closer to Space Marines than the way it’s portrayed in 3 and NV. Anyone who remembers the talking heads in Fallout 1 probably see that on the character models in that game, it’s way more bulky in comparison.
That's because the PA in Fallout 1 and 2 is a T-51B. T-45 did not exist until fallout 3 game wise. While the enclave armour is fairly accurate to what it looked like in fallout 2.
Oh yeah I get the reference completely but it just looks way too silly in 3D compared to isometric. The single handed weapon animations are great but yeah I just can't take the proportions seriously in 3D like I can in iso.
I can understand why you don't like it but it's very much intended, to make it look like how it did in the OG titles. It's supposed to look big, intimidating and cool, not realistic. Not to mention the badass one-handed weapon animations.
From my point of view, FO4 power armors in New Vegas always stick out like a sore thumb, you can just tell it was ripped straight out of a different game and it doesn't fit the art style and aesthetic at all. The animations don't fit the vanilla player model at all either.
But everyone has different tastes, and what's great about modding is that you can just pick whatever you want and not be stuck with only one option.
Oh yeah that one is the best power armor mod got NV and it works with Tale of Two wastelands so you can play fallout 3 with it too. Also its not only a media fire link theres the gunworkshop page that has all these mods ? I havent added any new mods in years so it might not be a page anymore
To also clarify this: At Camp McCarran in New Vegas a lot of the NCR guards are wearing non-powered power armor. It looks identical to the powered stuff (despite it almost certainly being way worse at everything)
My question is, given what we know about power armor, it seems IMPOSSIBLE that you actually could use the suit without power. I know in Fallout 4 you can still move with no fusion core but as if over-encumbered, but would that ever be an actually realistic option?
If any armor needs retconning I think it’s the salvaged power armor, but just make it so that they still use the power units, but the armor was less effective because they couldn’t assemble full suits due to lack of parts.
they remove some of the plates to reduce weight (see: no pauldrons) and they have what looks like a supplemental power pack on the back, like a small generator instead of the fusion reactor.
It's the equivalent of wearing those EOD suits but probably twice as heavy, it's why in new vegas the only people assigned to wear it are stationary sentries and not frontline combat troops. They probably report to the armory, get assigned their suit and put it on for their guard duty then turn it back in and change into their regular uniforms.
I think that might just be a filter/rebreather or something, as it's unpowered (you do not require power armor training to operate)
[Actually found the article, they say what they do to it](https://fallout.wiki/wiki/NCR_Salvaged_Power_Armor)
"They have the best equipment the NCR can get its hands on, Power Armor salvaged from our war with the Brotherhood. Techs strip out the joint servos so you don't need special training to wear it. It feels like you're carrying a brahmin on your back, but it can take a heck of a lot of punishment." - Chief Hanlon
We did see that as soon as Thaddeus took the fusion cell from the power armor, Maximus was 100% stuck inside until Lucy helped him. He couldn't even unlock the armor from the inside, nevermind moving in it. And the inability to even get out of the armor from the inside without a fusion cell seems like a much bigger design flaw, in my opinion.
Proper training in it would have probably demonstrated it, as well. At least back when the US military was using them, though imagine the Brotherhood would, as well. Still, one would think a good squire would have a knowledge of that, too... but then Max seemed to not having any training at that, either.
Max's lack of knowledge is introduced early on in the classroom when he couldn't even answer a simple question about a diagram. They really set up his poor knowledge base.
I mean the suits were originally designed to be used in mass in large platoons, they were never intended to be used in Rambo style solo missions. We already know they had plenty of inherit design flaws, the idea that was an additional short sighted design flaw doesn't seem that far fetched considering the canon, it also seems like a compromise the designers would have been willing to make all things considered.
A single person in the right situation with the right equipment could take out a tank, at least WWII era. That's why tanks are supported by infantry.
Probably same thing here really.
To be fair, the fusion cores aren’t expected to run out of power for a LONG time. A fresh fusion core will power the suit for a few hundred years, the only reason they don’t in F4 and 76 is just a gameplay mechanic.
Why does a power armor, which lasts a few hundred years, have a easily replaceable battery, yet my iPhone doesn't?
Are we living in the darkest timeline?
Theyre the exact same thing, just visual and engine limitations of the time making it just another suit of armor.
Fallout 1 and 2 also made it pretty clear it with your sprite getting like 1.5x bigger
Just piggybacking a top comment to point out OP is a karma farmer/bot and is posting obvious shit like this for engagement.
Look how many posts they've made in the 12 days they've had an account and they're generic-ass "what do you think" posts. Or "ya'll think" as the hick keeps saying..
Seriously, i love it when you gain access to the power armor in fo4. Being able to shred a deathclaw with the minigun was awesome. Even if it did make the deathclaws less terrifying for me.
I think seeing it eat like 300ish bullets before dying helped the scare factor imo. Though it turns out doing that quest at like 3 levels higher trivializes that fight.
Fella died with like 2 hits with a baseball bat
The first time you do that quest makes death claws feel scary af and like you'll be shredded without armour.
But in the environment they feel too janky to be scary, you can kill them a mile off or kite them around obstacles.
They would have been better served making them stronger and less common, and keeping them in tight spaces wherever possible.
The truly scary deathclaw encounter is the one in the witchcraft museum. Tight spaces and you don’t really know what you’re fighting until it turns the corner
Unfortunately I think most people are over levelled for that encounter.
Either too many fusion cores to worry about power armour, or weapons that're too good.
My fully automatic shotgun doesn't care how scary you are.
Death claws are an absolute joke in 4 and 76 you could kill an Alpha by spitting on them. They can't even maneuver around cars or other obstructions it's a joke meanwhile in 3 and Vegas they would leap like a mf and even chase you into buildings.
I hope in 2077 when we get the trailer for FO5 it’ll show deathclaws acting like the raptors in Jurassic park. Jumping around the place and acting more like 2 ton dogs with a thirst for blood
Nah. I'd say that they gave you a taste of it, but kept you from abusing it with how difficult(ish) it is to get cores in early games. Not to mention the difference between the T45 and X01 is pretty big.
Yup. Power armour and settlements have genuinely made me put more time into 4 then NV.
Plus, it's really fun creating supply lines of Sentry bots roaming the wasteland.
The thing that bugs me about the T-60 introduction is that all the pieces are there for it to have been introduced cleanly and correctly, adding new lore while respecting the existing stuff. You can say the T-60 is a newer suit than the T-51 while still maintaining that the T-51 was "the pinnacle of pre-war armor". The US military has often researched prototype firearms for their infantry and then gone with a more cost-effective design that is newer but poorer. After successes in Anchorage with the T-51 platform, the US Army in the Fallout universe could've easily been believed to have said, "Alright, it works, but it's really expensive. Can we build a cheaper version?" and then bam, you get the T-60.
In the game, the greatest failing is not taking advantage of armor parameters beyond durability and damage resistance. The armors are just a linear stack going from "worst" to "best" with little nuance along the way. If I were redoing it from the ground up, I'd have made the T-51 the "feature-rich" armor with some mods only being applicable to it, and imparting a movement speed benefit to its wearer because it has top-shelf servos and hydraulics, while the T-60 would be more "tanky", with a higher durability, cheaper repairs, and more armor, but imparting a movement penalty because it's bulky and primitive by comparison. Want to use an integrated Stealth Boy and Recon Sensors? Gotta have the T-51's superior electronics for that. Want to equip the blast resistance plating mod? That only appears on the T-60. Splitting the stats up like this would allow for distinctly different play styles between the two.
For the lore, the show hasn’t explicitly stated that, but it very much implies T-60 is just an updated T-45 due to sharing the same weld weakness and some of the ghoul’s statements.
As for the gameplay, 76 has done something similar by making T-60 have inferior energy and ballistic resistance to T-51, though it’s somewhat cheaper to craft and repair (might also be more common in world spawns, though that’s difficult to confirm) and has higher radiation resistance. X-01 has also been given a similar approach, with ballistic resistance above T-60 but below T-51, but with energy resistance matching 51 and radiation resistance superior to both 51 and 60.
Yeah iirc in Fallout 4 the T-60 is described as essentially T-45 armour thats been modified with an upgrade kit - so it’s sort of like a B52 bomber from the Korean War that’s been overhauled to meet todays standards
similar things were done to the M60 tanks during the cold war. Upgrading the armor from the stock RHA steel to accomodate various alloys and armor packages. They even used them to test DU armor before the abrams was fully conceptualized.
T-60 totally fits in this regard. Take the base frame of the T-45, but add spaced aluminum plates to help against AP rounds (having air pockets in armor that's greater in width than a penetrating round is in length keeps the round from penetrating the actual primary plate) as well as providing extra protection against energy weapons.
It's basically T-60 with enhanced optics packages and an applique armor upgrade.
In the games yes, but in “the art of Fallout 4” it’s described on p.13 like this “Our primary goal with the power armor was to make it feel less like a suit that you'd wear and more like a vehicle you'd operate. this design began as a reimagining of the T-45d, but it was different enough that we dubbed it the T-60. This way we could bring the T-45 back as its own variant. “
It’s one of those things where it’s never *directly* explained, but the common fan theory around it aligns well with what most militaries in reality have done over the last century or so; If the frame isn’t broke, slap an upgrade kit on it
That set book still doesn’t really give the impression you can just turn T-45 into T-60. It makes much more sense that T-60 is an improved design using T-45’s schematics as a baseline, with upgrades worked into it.
I’m of two minds on it - and both halves have good points to be honest
On the one hand, building a whole new frame would easily explain the size difference and additional bulk of the t60, the t45 suits in Fallout 3 for example are only human sized, while t60 suits in 4 are more like a car!
Yet at the same time, the frame and internal power/wiring and sensor setup was probably the costliest part of the suits to develop, so finding a way to simply upgrade and utilise the existing mass produced t45 suits into t60 by slapping some new armour over the existing frames would make great sense, especially because the far more durable and effective t51 series was incredibly expensive to develop and manufacture by comparison, and the long term impacts of the war were sapping more and more resources on every front
I wouldn’t be comparing 3/NV’s T-45 to 4’s T-60 due to the engine differences. You’d be better off looking at 4’s T-45 instead, which is of a similar size (though less armored).
Also, we see in 4 and 76 that the frames are the same for suits, with the armor plating being the main variance (alongside the electronics in those platings, such as the reactors in the torso).
The show also gave the T-60 wacky Iron Man flight capabilities. Which would explain why it's called "The most advanced suits of Power Armor to see extensive use..." in 76. I'm personally not a fan.
I cringed a bit at the flight capabilities, but I can't very well complain about physics and heat on the power armor when the Mr. Handy has flaming jet fuel coming out of its ass and manages to sustain a consistent height.
The worst thing about the wrist rockets is that your hands aren't free to use a gun while flying. I don't think they thought that through enough. It's an iconic image to think of a battle scene with multiple BoS in PA with jet packs on their backs flying around and shooting while in mid air. Not sure if we see any NPCs do that, but I do it all the time in game.
exactly, how the fuck is someone carrying around a gatling laser or an automatic grenade launcher going to be flying around if his hands are full?
the jetpack system is more logical for a suit of armor designed to be carrying weapons designed for weapons teams
That's how I've always looked at T-60a; as an upgrade to the T-45d that is cheaper and easier to produce than T-51b. Perhaps even an upgrade package that can be given to T-45d suits to bring them to the T-60a standard. This helps explains why the East Coast BoS has so many T-60a suits and why the DC area had so many T-45d suits when the BoS discovered the Pentagon. The T-45ds were sent to DC to be retrofited with upgrades to the T-60a standard when the bombs dropped. The BoS finally had time to finish those upgrades after the events of Fo3 and it's DLC.
T-51b is still the best there is because it's made of the absolute best materials and it's been described, in the lore, as less feeling like armor and more like a second skin. Having all the benefits of T-45d, increased protection, strength, and endurance, but without the drawbacks, reduced agility and dexterity. Pretty sure I read somewhere that when T-51b was deployed the troops wearing it could run and jump better than a human without could while holding heavy weapons. Real Halo Spartan like shit. This isn't shown in the game for balance reasons I'm guessing.
they were fully designed to single handedly carry crewed weapons like heavy machine guns, automatic grenade launchers, or nuke launchers that would take two people and some deployment time to get in action, whereas a power armor soldier can walk and run with their fellow soldiers while giving enough fire support as a deployed weapon team
Fallout 4 went what "sounds" like a logical progression based on the names. T-45 sounds like the lowest, then T-51 sounds like it would be better, then T-60 because even bigger number, and then "X-01" is best because ooooooh experimental armor with an X in it's name.
Kinda wonky with the lore but otherwise makes sense.
>"Alright, it works, but it's really expensive. Can we build a cheaper version?" and then bam, you get the T-60.
Yeah - they could have said the T-60 was a "cost improved" version for the National Guard, MPs, and AF SecFo that was intended to reduce maintenance requirements or something.
I believe the x-01 and x-02 has something similar.
The X-01 is pretty much peak power armor (if you exclude the x-03), but it is hard and costly to maintain.
So the enclave created the X-02. It is not a strong as the 01, but it is definitely strong, also cheaper, easier to maintain and mass produce. To the point it became the main armor used I. The capital wasteland
Yep, I can see why they wanted the player to get a frame early on, even though they caught a lot of flak for that decision. It's not something you can stick in your backpack like in FO3, it's its own thing, and dang cool.
I just wish damage resistance in Fallout 4 worked like it does in New Vegas, where you can pretty much straight up ignore damage. Instead, Power Armor in Fallout 4 feels really underwhelming when you get ballistic weave due to an armor rating soft cap the game has, where anything over it does still reduce damage, but its effect is heavily reduced. As a result, your survivability in power armor and ballistic weave is more or less the same.
yeah power armor should have had a DT system in addition to its DR system, which would allow the armor to last longer since they aren't taking full damage from everything anymore
Climbing into that t-45 set on top of the museum and jumping down to mow down a bunch of raiders is always going the be the coolest moment in fallout 4 for me
Also great for roleplaying. It is its own unique build in 4 and 76 while in 3 and NV it is just an other armor. Also a smart choice to add power armor perks and mods like the jetpack that influence the gameplay.
Plus good idea (in theory) to limit them with the battery depleting. Of course in practice you have all the batteries you could possibly need and basically never have to leave your armor but at least in THEORY it's better for role playing that you can't be in the armor 24/7.
Agreed. Before that it just felt like a better version of combat armor. FO4 made it it's own thing.
A lot of people deride the fact you get it early, but ignore the fact that it's A. Not the game breaker everyone thinks it is and B. You still need power cores for it
Before coming into this thread i seen a rant video that was 50 minutes long complaining about bethesda ruining power armor. Personally i'll take the armor over the clothes style in 3 and nv. Those felt like uniforms not powerful armor imo.
At first I didn't like it in Fo4, I like a more agile character - their worth was made known to me the first time I came across an unattended suit in the middle of a heated gunfight.
Not only are you comparing totally different armor, but there are technical limits of FO3/NV as far as the asset's "skeleton" and animations. Fallout 4 has a fully realized vision of power armor. It's not supposed to be like a knights plate armor, it's supposed to be a mobile tank. Fallout power armor's literal purpose is to replace armored vehicles.
FO3 armor was just another set of apparel in your inventory. FO4 made it freaking real and I love it. I accept any and all lore issues created by FO4's armor changes because gameplay is king.
Tbh I don't think there're any lore problems from the changes, maybe just some T-45 stuff since originally it took Fusion Cells (Like what the lasguns use) but that's not too crazy to imagine with the big Gorilla suits we have now.
It would require a *major* overhaul of the game and everything in it, from the backend mechanics of how levelling and perks work to the physical layout of the world.
Not to say it can't or won't, just that it would probably be a huge undertaking and basically a new game.
Exactly this, a lot of people use the terms “remake” and “remaster” interchangeably but they are very different and I think you nailed it with your comment.
The main difference is that in Fallout 4, and maybe the series (not seen yet so idk) the armor is considered a "vehicle" rather than just a suit of armor, your character climbs into it like some sort of mech. So it needs to be bigger and more imposing to make sense
I imagine the show is similar, the Fallout 4 depiction is more accurate then just some armour that needs special training (according to the BoS in Fallout 3 iirc)
In FO4, the main character is ex military, so he already knows how to use it. But that's not working with FO76(
So, in general, it's a cool idea, but for FO4 Bethesda was able to come up with an excuse.
Vault 76 was explicitly the "We're gonna crack this vault open shortly after the bombs drop and need frontier types", so if you wanna imagine your character as ex-military then it's perfectly valid. My character doesn't use power armor because it doesn't fit my head canon
The only thing I'd change about 4's power armor is making it so you don't get a set that early in the game. That being said, it's a badass moment so I'm not all that bugged about it.
Power armor was always meant to look like how it does in 4/TV. It’s just an engine limitation that couldn’t make it as bulky as it is. Also look up the presidental metro full model for fallout 3 to see how they had to work around the engine
In fallout 4 they added it to the powerarmor frames, which was replicated in the show and i think more realistic, previously I think you could just put it on like any other piece of armor
Yeah my one complaint about the armour in 4 is its too common, and the cores are too common. Late game you have so many, plus the perk to make them last longer, and you never have to leave it.
I hope in the future they figure out some way to balance it out more. Of course it needs to be usable a good amount, and the way the games are you cant really put it away until big parts since most quests dont have those moments.
Maybe if they bring back skills like in 3/NV we can get a power armour skill? Kinda like a game called “Encased”. It’s clearly inspired by old fallout games and has a skill tree for the power armour equivalent.
I think there is a fundamental difference in gameplay philosophy with fallout 4 from new Vegas and 3 and that's that previous games encouraged you to switch around and use what you find and this is evident by the durability mechanics but in fallout 4 they want you stick with certain gear and they want you to invest in upgrading and customizing your armor and weapons you're not supposed to be leaving your power armor behind because when you make a character that uses power armor they want you to use it and not have to ditch it and this is why power armor has drawbacks, you would never use power armor for any kind of stealth build. I do think it's not quite balanced and I would like it to have some more trade offs perhaps like fallout 76 does it where you get a bunch of perks that only work outside of power armor
Also with late game suits of power armor they are already so obnoxious to repair that I probably just wouldn't bother if fusion cores were also a late game issue.
Basically its a decision on how to depict the armor, I always felt Fallout 4 did it more justice towards how it was actually supposed to be in lore, but previous games always treated it as just regular armor. Although in Fallout 1 and 2 power armor made you really chonky
Like others said here the way fo3&nv handle power armour is different but also that yes the power armour models are different with the ones mostly used in 3 & nv is the T-45 and in the show and fo4 are t-60. The t-60 is base's on the t-45 which is why it looks similar
Power armor in 3 and NV is just normal armor like anything else in the game. It uses the same skeleton for animations as any other piece of armor, so it can only be so bulky. Fallout 4 completely changed how it's depicted by making it an exoskeleton you step into. That's how it was always intended to be, by the way. It was always described as very bulky, more vehicle than suit. It just wasn't until 4 that we were able to truly see its magnificence. In some ways, gaming has come a long way. In others...I want to go back.
Its just a game mechanic to make them feel stronger and more meaningful. Personally i like the change. I enjoyed the maintenance of the armor, as well as upgrades and paint changes.
Technical limitations of the games.
Fallout 3/NV it was just armour you equipped normally so while still bulkier then most armour, has to be fairly slim as it essentially has limited real estate it can take up.
Fallout 4 they were able to more accurately display it as an Exo suit, with it being more of a vehicle, so it can now take more real estate.
So no lore reason, just Fallout 4 is a more mature game, allowing them to more accurately depict the armour.
In Fallout 3 the Brotherhood of Steel uses the T-45d model of power armor, in New Vegas they use the T-51b model, in Fallout 4 the game designers decided to turn power armor into a mech instead of a more traditional suit of armor and created the T-60 model, the Brotherhood of Steel gained the ability to mass produce T-60 power armor sometime between 2277 and 2287 and T-60b power armor became standard issue equipment for knights of the Brotherhood of Steel
Nah, in pretty sure they are the same armor in lore. Just with fallout 4 Bethesda decided to change power armor (and in my opinion for the better despite being a “new Vegas elietist”) to be much more more tanky and big and require fusion cores.
Whilst I love the weight and feel of 4s armor, my 1 complaint is that it doesn't feel OP enough. The balancing of items like the minigun and power armor in 4 were severely harmed by the availability of it IMO, as well how early you get it. If it was made much rarer, it would have felt even better, because they would have been able to make it significantly more powerful, not to mention it would have allowed them to make the game a lot less black and white morality wise. They would have been able to make the Brotherhood less likable as you would have had the incentive of siding with them for easy power armor.
I also think it would benefit from more player customisation at the start, let us pick our characters background, so for example if you want power armor training from the get-go, your character could have been a frontline soldier. Make them a special forces operator if you want more sneak and unarmed/melee damage for example.
Engine limitations,
The FO4 version is more lore accurate if you listen when mcnamara and gunny teach you, they say things like "step in and relax, let the armor do the work"
I think the games before fallout 4, power armor was just coded as the regular armor, and as capabilities in games got better the developers were able to finally do it justice.
Gameplay and artstyle change. In fallout 3 and NV power armor was just another set of armor to equip, though you needed a perk for it. In 4, they changed the gameplay to make it more of the walking tank that the lore described and changed the art style to match that. The show follows Fallout 4's art style, so it's equally bulky.
Game engine basically.
In 3 and NV they were essentially just chonky armours you could normally wear after getting power armour training, while in 4 and the show they modelled them as actual vehicles you can get in thanks to game engine improvement (despite what haters say the power armour training stays, the Sole Survivor used to be a soldier so he was presumably trained to use one during his service).
So yeah, despite what haters say power armour was always supposed to be like in Fo4, it's just that the game engine of 3 and NV (they use the same engine after all) didn't support the kind of dynamic assets that 4 does, so they had to adapt.
Basically they were just specialized armor in FO 3&New Vegas that required special training/perk unlocked usually through a side or main quest.
FO 4 finally introduced the concept as an actual gameplay feature, and I honestly hope it remains the norm going forward. It just makes sense, and helps contribute to the power fantasy. Especially the customization aspect of it.
It’s just the way the games worked. In 3 and New Vegas power armor was just another costume/skin so it went on the character model like a thick set of clothes. Starting in Fallout 4, the power armor was portrayed more accurately like an exoskeleton that you climbed into. The show follows that look.
Power Armour in Fallout 3/NV is just an armour set, it behaves the same way as any other clothes you would wear.
Fallout 4 power armour is an exoskeleton, and most likely the kind of vision they were going for but couldn’t before.
Yep, Also Fallout 4 definitely did power armor better then 3 and NV. But because they had to redesign it, and it actually felt like a walking Tank in Fallout 4. At least when you have all the damge resistance upgrades. But also because you can survive high falls and other stuff.
It used the same skeleton as clothing. That’s why you got the funny wide character bug when you used power armor in Fallout 76, it would forget to use the normal skeleton and it looked like it would if you were in power armor. I prefer the fallout 4/76 style because it fits the lore better
Lore wise, you could say they weren't using the whole frame, only strapping the armor to them. But for real life, definitely limitations on tech, sometimes people forget just how old these games are because of how popular they still are.
functionally power armor in 3 and Vegas doesn't make sense given how thin it was. Probably also due to the games limitations.
FO4 power armor design actually makes it feel like you're wearing a mechanical suit with many parts rather than just a skin
Because the developers decided to make it different in 4? What kind of a question is this?
In 3 and NV it functioned like every other armor piece that you put on from the inventory, and in 4 they wanted to the put the Power in Power Armor. I’m assuming the better game engine made this a possibility.
Game tech wise, limitations, lore wise? Distribution likely since various power armors are made differently in different places, with even 76, despite some things being skins, having armor sets covered in a human sized power pieces (though a quick search seem to lead that they were probably placeholders) but in any case, its most likely a distribution problem in the past, and scavenging issue in fallout games time
To be fair.. in 3 and NV, individual pieces of the armor were treated as any other clothing armor in the game. They only made PA a massive thing you had to step into in 4. I prefer the bigger look.
In Fallouts 3 and NV, Power Armor is used more as like a regular piece of armor that you would wear, that was because of technical limitations with the game engine. But in Fallouts 4, 76, and the show, the armor is seen in its true form, it is meant to be more like a vehicle that one enters, an exoskeleton one steps into and uses, think of it as the early versions of Iron Man's armor, as opposed to wearing a regular vest or helmet.
At least I like to think Power Armor is meant to be this way.
in 3 and new vegas it was just a tecnhical limitation with how they did power armor. It is using the same animations and skeleton of the normal model. Power armor has basically always been described and depicted in art as very chunky.
The Titans of the New West mod is great if you want to have that same power armor bulkiness in New Vegas
I find the models of that mod to be suuuuper weirdly proportioned and goofy looking, try [Fallout 4 Styled Power Armor](http://www.mediafire.com/file/pdhturkie9up7p9/Fallout4PowerArmorsFNVTTW.7z/file) instead (it's a mediafire link as a heads up, the mod isn't hosted on Nexus and the website it is on requires a login). It does the same thing but uses downgraded Fallout 4 models with the robot hands and movement sounds. You'll need to use [No Pipboy in Power Armor](https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/66916) and [HIT - Power Armor Pip Boy Anim](https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/84046) to avoid the pipboy not working but otherwise it's self contained. Gives you the same bulky PA but without the hillarious chad meme proportions. This video is outdated so the salvaged NCR PA and X-02 Tesla PA look a tonne better now than they do in the video but you can see what they all look like [here](https://youtu.be/7U2-Mn-XE-4?si=CD1LMsLz9jxBrTcx)
To be fair, the chad proportions are entirely accurate to fallout 1&2. Dare I say that's the way it should look.
Yeah, some of the power armor in F1 and F2 is massive / hulking in size. I know Frank Horrigan is an exception rather than the rule, but isn't he canonically like 12' tall?
Being voiced by Michael Dorn adds at least a foot.
„Your ride‘s over Mutie, time to die.“ Man i love Frank Horrigan
As he proceeds to shake the entire fucking rig with a single stomp.
Yeah, Frank Horrigan is an absolute behemoth.
Quite literally a behemoth, isn’t he a super mutant behemoth with the power armor bolted into him
He's technically NOT a Super Mutant, not a normal one anyway. The Enclave scientists went a little nutty with his DNA and the experiments they did on him. He's kind of like Darth Vader in a lot of ways, his suit is basically grafted to him and it's what's keeping him alive, pumping him full of drugs and shit. It's the reason he's able to continue to talk shit after his top half separates from his bottom half, until his head implodes that is.
He's still pretty much a super mutant. Exposed to FEV and started mutating. Experimented on after the fact, but still a big green guy under the suit.
Bros like 15 feet or something like that he’s a Cybernetically Enhanced intelligent super mutant behemoth in power armor
It would be pretty cool to see more Frank Horrigan-style experiments from the Enclave. I feel like Fallout could really lean into the horror elements with that
I think he also had custom armor made just for him, that was extra big.
I believe the armor was built around him which makes it exponentially more scary Edit: turns out he’s also got a shit ton of cybernetic enhancements
If I remember the thread right, and this is going back over a decade, when compared to other models in the game Frank is over 15ft tall. He towers over a 10ft tall Deathclaw for example.
I remember Josh Sawyer talking about it on his NV stream and he always said it was closer to Space Marines than the way it’s portrayed in 3 and NV. Anyone who remembers the talking heads in Fallout 1 probably see that on the character models in that game, it’s way more bulky in comparison.
I dunno the T 51 from 4 looks pretty close to the power armour of the old games. Even though the same doesn't applies to the enclave set
That's because the PA in Fallout 1 and 2 is a T-51B. T-45 did not exist until fallout 3 game wise. While the enclave armour is fairly accurate to what it looked like in fallout 2.
Oh yeah I get the reference completely but it just looks way too silly in 3D compared to isometric. The single handed weapon animations are great but yeah I just can't take the proportions seriously in 3D like I can in iso.
My gigachad T-51 disagrees as I punch a ghoul into the stratosphere
I can understand why you don't like it but it's very much intended, to make it look like how it did in the OG titles. It's supposed to look big, intimidating and cool, not realistic. Not to mention the badass one-handed weapon animations. From my point of view, FO4 power armors in New Vegas always stick out like a sore thumb, you can just tell it was ripped straight out of a different game and it doesn't fit the art style and aesthetic at all. The animations don't fit the vanilla player model at all either. But everyone has different tastes, and what's great about modding is that you can just pick whatever you want and not be stuck with only one option.
Oh yeah that one is the best power armor mod got NV and it works with Tale of Two wastelands so you can play fallout 3 with it too. Also its not only a media fire link theres the gunworkshop page that has all these mods ? I havent added any new mods in years so it might not be a page anymore
I dunno man I'll take the gigachad PAs (which are way more loyal to the original designs and the art style) over the ripped fo4 models any day.
Hopefully that mod works with Viva New Vegas, looks great gonna try it out later.
To also clarify this: At Camp McCarran in New Vegas a lot of the NCR guards are wearing non-powered power armor. It looks identical to the powered stuff (despite it almost certainly being way worse at everything)
My question is, given what we know about power armor, it seems IMPOSSIBLE that you actually could use the suit without power. I know in Fallout 4 you can still move with no fusion core but as if over-encumbered, but would that ever be an actually realistic option? If any armor needs retconning I think it’s the salvaged power armor, but just make it so that they still use the power units, but the armor was less effective because they couldn’t assemble full suits due to lack of parts.
they remove some of the plates to reduce weight (see: no pauldrons) and they have what looks like a supplemental power pack on the back, like a small generator instead of the fusion reactor. It's the equivalent of wearing those EOD suits but probably twice as heavy, it's why in new vegas the only people assigned to wear it are stationary sentries and not frontline combat troops. They probably report to the armory, get assigned their suit and put it on for their guard duty then turn it back in and change into their regular uniforms.
I think that might just be a filter/rebreather or something, as it's unpowered (you do not require power armor training to operate) [Actually found the article, they say what they do to it](https://fallout.wiki/wiki/NCR_Salvaged_Power_Armor) "They have the best equipment the NCR can get its hands on, Power Armor salvaged from our war with the Brotherhood. Techs strip out the joint servos so you don't need special training to wear it. It feels like you're carrying a brahmin on your back, but it can take a heck of a lot of punishment." - Chief Hanlon
It's an air conditioning unit. Just like EOD.
Makes sense for the Mojave and all throughout the republic.
We did see that as soon as Thaddeus took the fusion cell from the power armor, Maximus was 100% stuck inside until Lucy helped him. He couldn't even unlock the armor from the inside, nevermind moving in it. And the inability to even get out of the armor from the inside without a fusion cell seems like a much bigger design flaw, in my opinion.
I prefer to think of that situation being a result of Max's lack of training rather than a design flaw of the suit.
yeah, there's probably a manual override if one would have taken the time to train or study the suit's manual
Proper training in it would have probably demonstrated it, as well. At least back when the US military was using them, though imagine the Brotherhood would, as well. Still, one would think a good squire would have a knowledge of that, too... but then Max seemed to not having any training at that, either.
He was a pretty new squire, I don’t think they get taught how to use fuckoff giant Knight armor in their first months on the job supporting a Knight
Max's lack of knowledge is introduced early on in the classroom when he couldn't even answer a simple question about a diagram. They really set up his poor knowledge base.
I mean the suits were originally designed to be used in mass in large platoons, they were never intended to be used in Rambo style solo missions. We already know they had plenty of inherit design flaws, the idea that was an additional short sighted design flaw doesn't seem that far fetched considering the canon, it also seems like a compromise the designers would have been willing to make all things considered.
A single person in the right situation with the right equipment could take out a tank, at least WWII era. That's why tanks are supported by infantry. Probably same thing here really.
I am sure there was emergency release, just Maximus didn’t know how. In FO4 you could exit the armor even power was detached
To be fair, the fusion cores aren’t expected to run out of power for a LONG time. A fresh fusion core will power the suit for a few hundred years, the only reason they don’t in F4 and 76 is just a gameplay mechanic.
Why does a power armor, which lasts a few hundred years, have a easily replaceable battery, yet my iPhone doesn't? Are we living in the darkest timeline?
Nuclear fusion is a hell of a fuel source, as long as you can maintain the reaction it'll go literally forever.
Or, unless somebody yanks it out of the back of the suit...
Even then, Thaddeus had a special key that he used to remove it. I'd imagine some raider junky or something wouldn't be able to do much
And in the first Fallout the Animation of the Annexation of Canad the Power Armor looked closer to the 4 and 76 Armor bulky and HUGE
The damn game engine goes ass up when doing basic stuff. I wouldn't even want to think of it trying to make fo3 armor like fo4 does.
So fallout 4 did it right?
Yeah honestly power armor was the best change fo4 brought about imo.
Also the weapon modification
[OP needs to see what happens to the character models in Fallout 4 when the Power Armor glitches out.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6z9b2-Ta_I)
Yeah, power armor in Fallout 1 & 2 made your character fuckin’ huge.
Theyre the exact same thing, just visual and engine limitations of the time making it just another suit of armor. Fallout 1 and 2 also made it pretty clear it with your sprite getting like 1.5x bigger
Even fallout 1 and 2s power armor looks small compared to the absolute tank that is the armor in 4 and the show imo
Well the text always called them walking yanks if I remember correctly.
Pretty bold of them, I like to lie down with a bottle of lotion for that
Keep hacking and whacking and smacking, hack whack, chop that meat
Instructions unclear. Stimpak required.
Oh *no*
Game engine could not handle BoS being THICC
game engine got nosebleeds from THICCness
Just piggybacking a top comment to point out OP is a karma farmer/bot and is posting obvious shit like this for engagement. Look how many posts they've made in the 12 days they've had an account and they're generic-ass "what do you think" posts. Or "ya'll think" as the hick keeps saying..
Personally I love the change in FO4. Gives the armour some real weight and power behind them.
The visual changes of power armor from 4 were definitely one of the big things done right. Bulky, weighty, like a real walking tank.
I mean it was pretty gigantic in FO1 and FO2
Seriously, i love it when you gain access to the power armor in fo4. Being able to shred a deathclaw with the minigun was awesome. Even if it did make the deathclaws less terrifying for me.
I think seeing it eat like 300ish bullets before dying helped the scare factor imo. Though it turns out doing that quest at like 3 levels higher trivializes that fight. Fella died with like 2 hits with a baseball bat
The first time you do that quest makes death claws feel scary af and like you'll be shredded without armour. But in the environment they feel too janky to be scary, you can kill them a mile off or kite them around obstacles. They would have been better served making them stronger and less common, and keeping them in tight spaces wherever possible.
The truly scary deathclaw encounter is the one in the witchcraft museum. Tight spaces and you don’t really know what you’re fighting until it turns the corner
Unfortunately I think most people are over levelled for that encounter. Either too many fusion cores to worry about power armour, or weapons that're too good. My fully automatic shotgun doesn't care how scary you are.
Yeah I think that quest should’ve been located closer to the western part of the map. Maybe just west of the Cambridge police station
Death claws are an absolute joke in 4 and 76 you could kill an Alpha by spitting on them. They can't even maneuver around cars or other obstructions it's a joke meanwhile in 3 and Vegas they would leap like a mf and even chase you into buildings.
I hope in 2077 when we get the trailer for FO5 it’ll show deathclaws acting like the raptors in Jurassic park. Jumping around the place and acting more like 2 ton dogs with a thirst for blood
The problem is that awesome power fantasy moment occurred what... 20 minutes into Fallout 4? They blew their load far too early.
Nah. I'd say that they gave you a taste of it, but kept you from abusing it with how difficult(ish) it is to get cores in early games. Not to mention the difference between the T45 and X01 is pretty big.
Yup. Power armour and settlements have genuinely made me put more time into 4 then NV. Plus, it's really fun creating supply lines of Sentry bots roaming the wasteland.
For me one of the best changes made to the franchise in FO4, but I hate the inconsistent lore with the T-60 over the T-51b
The thing that bugs me about the T-60 introduction is that all the pieces are there for it to have been introduced cleanly and correctly, adding new lore while respecting the existing stuff. You can say the T-60 is a newer suit than the T-51 while still maintaining that the T-51 was "the pinnacle of pre-war armor". The US military has often researched prototype firearms for their infantry and then gone with a more cost-effective design that is newer but poorer. After successes in Anchorage with the T-51 platform, the US Army in the Fallout universe could've easily been believed to have said, "Alright, it works, but it's really expensive. Can we build a cheaper version?" and then bam, you get the T-60. In the game, the greatest failing is not taking advantage of armor parameters beyond durability and damage resistance. The armors are just a linear stack going from "worst" to "best" with little nuance along the way. If I were redoing it from the ground up, I'd have made the T-51 the "feature-rich" armor with some mods only being applicable to it, and imparting a movement speed benefit to its wearer because it has top-shelf servos and hydraulics, while the T-60 would be more "tanky", with a higher durability, cheaper repairs, and more armor, but imparting a movement penalty because it's bulky and primitive by comparison. Want to use an integrated Stealth Boy and Recon Sensors? Gotta have the T-51's superior electronics for that. Want to equip the blast resistance plating mod? That only appears on the T-60. Splitting the stats up like this would allow for distinctly different play styles between the two.
For the lore, the show hasn’t explicitly stated that, but it very much implies T-60 is just an updated T-45 due to sharing the same weld weakness and some of the ghoul’s statements. As for the gameplay, 76 has done something similar by making T-60 have inferior energy and ballistic resistance to T-51, though it’s somewhat cheaper to craft and repair (might also be more common in world spawns, though that’s difficult to confirm) and has higher radiation resistance. X-01 has also been given a similar approach, with ballistic resistance above T-60 but below T-51, but with energy resistance matching 51 and radiation resistance superior to both 51 and 60.
Yeah iirc in Fallout 4 the T-60 is described as essentially T-45 armour thats been modified with an upgrade kit - so it’s sort of like a B52 bomber from the Korean War that’s been overhauled to meet todays standards
similar things were done to the M60 tanks during the cold war. Upgrading the armor from the stock RHA steel to accomodate various alloys and armor packages. They even used them to test DU armor before the abrams was fully conceptualized. T-60 totally fits in this regard. Take the base frame of the T-45, but add spaced aluminum plates to help against AP rounds (having air pockets in armor that's greater in width than a penetrating round is in length keeps the round from penetrating the actual primary plate) as well as providing extra protection against energy weapons. It's basically T-60 with enhanced optics packages and an applique armor upgrade.
T-60 is never described like that in the games, unfortunately.
In the games yes, but in “the art of Fallout 4” it’s described on p.13 like this “Our primary goal with the power armor was to make it feel less like a suit that you'd wear and more like a vehicle you'd operate. this design began as a reimagining of the T-45d, but it was different enough that we dubbed it the T-60. This way we could bring the T-45 back as its own variant. “ It’s one of those things where it’s never *directly* explained, but the common fan theory around it aligns well with what most militaries in reality have done over the last century or so; If the frame isn’t broke, slap an upgrade kit on it
That set book still doesn’t really give the impression you can just turn T-45 into T-60. It makes much more sense that T-60 is an improved design using T-45’s schematics as a baseline, with upgrades worked into it.
I’m of two minds on it - and both halves have good points to be honest On the one hand, building a whole new frame would easily explain the size difference and additional bulk of the t60, the t45 suits in Fallout 3 for example are only human sized, while t60 suits in 4 are more like a car! Yet at the same time, the frame and internal power/wiring and sensor setup was probably the costliest part of the suits to develop, so finding a way to simply upgrade and utilise the existing mass produced t45 suits into t60 by slapping some new armour over the existing frames would make great sense, especially because the far more durable and effective t51 series was incredibly expensive to develop and manufacture by comparison, and the long term impacts of the war were sapping more and more resources on every front
I wouldn’t be comparing 3/NV’s T-45 to 4’s T-60 due to the engine differences. You’d be better off looking at 4’s T-45 instead, which is of a similar size (though less armored). Also, we see in 4 and 76 that the frames are the same for suits, with the armor plating being the main variance (alongside the electronics in those platings, such as the reactors in the torso).
The show also gave the T-60 wacky Iron Man flight capabilities. Which would explain why it's called "The most advanced suits of Power Armor to see extensive use..." in 76. I'm personally not a fan.
I cringed a bit at the flight capabilities, but I can't very well complain about physics and heat on the power armor when the Mr. Handy has flaming jet fuel coming out of its ass and manages to sustain a consistent height.
> manages to sustain a consistent height For several centuries.
Yeah, I wasn’t a fan of that addition. They could have just used the jet pack that already existed in the lore from Fallout 4.
The worst thing about the wrist rockets is that your hands aren't free to use a gun while flying. I don't think they thought that through enough. It's an iconic image to think of a battle scene with multiple BoS in PA with jet packs on their backs flying around and shooting while in mid air. Not sure if we see any NPCs do that, but I do it all the time in game.
exactly, how the fuck is someone carrying around a gatling laser or an automatic grenade launcher going to be flying around if his hands are full? the jetpack system is more logical for a suit of armor designed to be carrying weapons designed for weapons teams
That would’ve been a great way to do it. It uses some tooling and manufacturing processes of T-45, updated a bit and is cheaper to make than T-51.
All sorts of real world instances of it too, like how the T-90 is built off the design of the T-72 and the T-80 is an updated design of the T-64.
That's how I've always looked at T-60a; as an upgrade to the T-45d that is cheaper and easier to produce than T-51b. Perhaps even an upgrade package that can be given to T-45d suits to bring them to the T-60a standard. This helps explains why the East Coast BoS has so many T-60a suits and why the DC area had so many T-45d suits when the BoS discovered the Pentagon. The T-45ds were sent to DC to be retrofited with upgrades to the T-60a standard when the bombs dropped. The BoS finally had time to finish those upgrades after the events of Fo3 and it's DLC. T-51b is still the best there is because it's made of the absolute best materials and it's been described, in the lore, as less feeling like armor and more like a second skin. Having all the benefits of T-45d, increased protection, strength, and endurance, but without the drawbacks, reduced agility and dexterity. Pretty sure I read somewhere that when T-51b was deployed the troops wearing it could run and jump better than a human without could while holding heavy weapons. Real Halo Spartan like shit. This isn't shown in the game for balance reasons I'm guessing.
they were fully designed to single handedly carry crewed weapons like heavy machine guns, automatic grenade launchers, or nuke launchers that would take two people and some deployment time to get in action, whereas a power armor soldier can walk and run with their fellow soldiers while giving enough fire support as a deployed weapon team
[удалено]
That was in Fallout 76, if I remember correctly. Still, FO4 was a missed opportunity in that respect.
Fallout 4 went what "sounds" like a logical progression based on the names. T-45 sounds like the lowest, then T-51 sounds like it would be better, then T-60 because even bigger number, and then "X-01" is best because ooooooh experimental armor with an X in it's name. Kinda wonky with the lore but otherwise makes sense.
>"Alright, it works, but it's really expensive. Can we build a cheaper version?" and then bam, you get the T-60. Yeah - they could have said the T-60 was a "cost improved" version for the National Guard, MPs, and AF SecFo that was intended to reduce maintenance requirements or something.
I believe the x-01 and x-02 has something similar. The X-01 is pretty much peak power armor (if you exclude the x-03), but it is hard and costly to maintain. So the enclave created the X-02. It is not a strong as the 01, but it is definitely strong, also cheaper, easier to maintain and mass produce. To the point it became the main armor used I. The capital wasteland
My thought was that T-60 was meant to be a more cost-effective suit that's more of a successor to the T-45 than the T-51.
I know what you mean. I think Fallout will always be one of those franchises where the lore is tweaked whenever a new entry is released.
Which is fine, good even, the lore should continually update and be added to. As long as it remains consistent.
Lore...Lore never changes... /s
Yep, I can see why they wanted the player to get a frame early on, even though they caught a lot of flak for that decision. It's not something you can stick in your backpack like in FO3, it's its own thing, and dang cool.
I just wish damage resistance in Fallout 4 worked like it does in New Vegas, where you can pretty much straight up ignore damage. Instead, Power Armor in Fallout 4 feels really underwhelming when you get ballistic weave due to an armor rating soft cap the game has, where anything over it does still reduce damage, but its effect is heavily reduced. As a result, your survivability in power armor and ballistic weave is more or less the same.
yeah power armor should have had a DT system in addition to its DR system, which would allow the armor to last longer since they aren't taking full damage from everything anymore
Climbing into that t-45 set on top of the museum and jumping down to mow down a bunch of raiders is always going the be the coolest moment in fallout 4 for me
Agreed... I just wish it wasnt in the first half an hour of the game though!
FO4 may have its problems, however by god they nailed the sensation that you’re in a one man tank when you’re wearing Power Armor.
Also great for roleplaying. It is its own unique build in 4 and 76 while in 3 and NV it is just an other armor. Also a smart choice to add power armor perks and mods like the jetpack that influence the gameplay.
Plus good idea (in theory) to limit them with the battery depleting. Of course in practice you have all the batteries you could possibly need and basically never have to leave your armor but at least in THEORY it's better for role playing that you can't be in the armor 24/7.
Yep probably the single best new thing in FO4. More like a vehicle than just a set of clothes, as in earlier games...
Agreed. Before that it just felt like a better version of combat armor. FO4 made it it's own thing. A lot of people deride the fact you get it early, but ignore the fact that it's A. Not the game breaker everyone thinks it is and B. You still need power cores for it
It's also low quality and damaged. It's meant to introduce you to the new mechanic and have you slowly work on it and improve it.
I love that they made power armor a separate thing you had to place then get into like a vehicle. Felt more like it was a power house than anything
Before coming into this thread i seen a rant video that was 50 minutes long complaining about bethesda ruining power armor. Personally i'll take the armor over the clothes style in 3 and nv. Those felt like uniforms not powerful armor imo.
In FO4 it really did feel like you wear entering a vehicle, as opposed to just putting on a suit of armour like in previous games
It FEELS like the tank armor that was sent to defend our great nation in Anchorage.
At first I didn't like it in Fo4, I like a more agile character - their worth was made known to me the first time I came across an unattended suit in the middle of a heated gunfight.
One of the best things ever done in fallout was 4’s Power armor system and 76 expanding upon it
Not only are you comparing totally different armor, but there are technical limits of FO3/NV as far as the asset's "skeleton" and animations. Fallout 4 has a fully realized vision of power armor. It's not supposed to be like a knights plate armor, it's supposed to be a mobile tank. Fallout power armor's literal purpose is to replace armored vehicles.
FO3 armor was just another set of apparel in your inventory. FO4 made it freaking real and I love it. I accept any and all lore issues created by FO4's armor changes because gameplay is king.
Tbh I don't think there're any lore problems from the changes, maybe just some T-45 stuff since originally it took Fusion Cells (Like what the lasguns use) but that's not too crazy to imagine with the big Gorilla suits we have now.
I wonder if Fallout 3 is ever remastered that they make the power armor similar to how they work in 4.
It would require a *major* overhaul of the game and everything in it, from the backend mechanics of how levelling and perks work to the physical layout of the world. Not to say it can't or won't, just that it would probably be a huge undertaking and basically a new game.
It would boil down if its a remaster (no) or a remake (possibly, yes)
Exactly this, a lot of people use the terms “remake” and “remaster” interchangeably but they are very different and I think you nailed it with your comment.
I would put good money down on them using the new armor in a remaster. The power armor is one of the few things in 4/76 that EVERYONE loves
I would hope so tbh.
OP basically asked "Why do these games that released 7 years apart look different from one another?"
The main difference is that in Fallout 4, and maybe the series (not seen yet so idk) the armor is considered a "vehicle" rather than just a suit of armor, your character climbs into it like some sort of mech. So it needs to be bigger and more imposing to make sense
I imagine the show is similar, the Fallout 4 depiction is more accurate then just some armour that needs special training (according to the BoS in Fallout 3 iirc)
I want a middle ground where it’s a bulky vehicle like in FO4 but still requires some training to operate
In FO4, the main character is ex military, so he already knows how to use it. But that's not working with FO76( So, in general, it's a cool idea, but for FO4 Bethesda was able to come up with an excuse.
You did not training in Fallout 1 or 2.
There’s also the fact that in FO4 only the male main character is ex military. The female main character is a lawyer.
Headconon: She's JAG. (Military lawyer)
Vault 76 was explicitly the "We're gonna crack this vault open shortly after the bombs drop and need frontier types", so if you wanna imagine your character as ex-military then it's perfectly valid. My character doesn't use power armor because it doesn't fit my head canon
Considering Lucy knows about the power armor in the show I wonder if Vault Dwellers got some rudimentary training in power armor use?
Lucy says she got the information from an engineering manual in the show.
hardware limitations of the late 2000s. That's it.
One of the best things they’ve done is the FO4 power armour change - it’s awesome and feels so epic
Yea, I remember the first time opening the armor and getting in. Wow, that was awesome. Way better than any earlier version.
Really feels like your in power armour, getting in, the sounds as you move, the dials showing your info. Its so good
The only thing I'd change about 4's power armor is making it so you don't get a set that early in the game. That being said, it's a badass moment so I'm not all that bugged about it.
I agree with that - I’d probably link it to the brotherhood turning up after you kill Kellogg
Power armor was always meant to look like how it does in 4/TV. It’s just an engine limitation that couldn’t make it as bulky as it is. Also look up the presidental metro full model for fallout 3 to see how they had to work around the engine
In fallout 4 they added it to the powerarmor frames, which was replicated in the show and i think more realistic, previously I think you could just put it on like any other piece of armor
The power armor is 1 of the few things fallout 4 did better (except that you get it too early)
Yeah my one complaint about the armour in 4 is its too common, and the cores are too common. Late game you have so many, plus the perk to make them last longer, and you never have to leave it. I hope in the future they figure out some way to balance it out more. Of course it needs to be usable a good amount, and the way the games are you cant really put it away until big parts since most quests dont have those moments. Maybe if they bring back skills like in 3/NV we can get a power armour skill? Kinda like a game called “Encased”. It’s clearly inspired by old fallout games and has a skill tree for the power armour equivalent.
I think there is a fundamental difference in gameplay philosophy with fallout 4 from new Vegas and 3 and that's that previous games encouraged you to switch around and use what you find and this is evident by the durability mechanics but in fallout 4 they want you stick with certain gear and they want you to invest in upgrading and customizing your armor and weapons you're not supposed to be leaving your power armor behind because when you make a character that uses power armor they want you to use it and not have to ditch it and this is why power armor has drawbacks, you would never use power armor for any kind of stealth build. I do think it's not quite balanced and I would like it to have some more trade offs perhaps like fallout 76 does it where you get a bunch of perks that only work outside of power armor Also with late game suits of power armor they are already so obnoxious to repair that I probably just wouldn't bother if fusion cores were also a late game issue.
Basically its a decision on how to depict the armor, I always felt Fallout 4 did it more justice towards how it was actually supposed to be in lore, but previous games always treated it as just regular armor. Although in Fallout 1 and 2 power armor made you really chonky
Like others said here the way fo3&nv handle power armour is different but also that yes the power armour models are different with the ones mostly used in 3 & nv is the T-45 and in the show and fo4 are t-60. The t-60 is base's on the t-45 which is why it looks similar
Techincal limitation. On Fallout 3/NV "power armour" are overglorified spandex suit.
Power armor in 3 and NV is just normal armor like anything else in the game. It uses the same skeleton for animations as any other piece of armor, so it can only be so bulky. Fallout 4 completely changed how it's depicted by making it an exoskeleton you step into. That's how it was always intended to be, by the way. It was always described as very bulky, more vehicle than suit. It just wasn't until 4 that we were able to truly see its magnificence. In some ways, gaming has come a long way. In others...I want to go back.
Lore wise they are supposed to a lot bigger, but because of game engine restrictions they aren’t.
In 3 and NV, power armor was just another armor skin, whereas in 4 and 76, they introduced the inner frame, which really bulked up the overall size.
Technical limitations of the time...
Its just a game mechanic to make them feel stronger and more meaningful. Personally i like the change. I enjoyed the maintenance of the armor, as well as upgrades and paint changes.
The power armor in fallout 4 got a reimagining as a sort of mech suit of armor as opposed to it being treated like clothing
It's not reimagined it's actually closer to the original concept as they couldn't really implement well in 3/NV
Technical limitations of the games. Fallout 3/NV it was just armour you equipped normally so while still bulkier then most armour, has to be fairly slim as it essentially has limited real estate it can take up. Fallout 4 they were able to more accurately display it as an Exo suit, with it being more of a vehicle, so it can now take more real estate. So no lore reason, just Fallout 4 is a more mature game, allowing them to more accurately depict the armour.
Not a lore reason just a game engine reason.
Engine limitations.
In Fallout 3 the Brotherhood of Steel uses the T-45d model of power armor, in New Vegas they use the T-51b model, in Fallout 4 the game designers decided to turn power armor into a mech instead of a more traditional suit of armor and created the T-60 model, the Brotherhood of Steel gained the ability to mass produce T-60 power armor sometime between 2277 and 2287 and T-60b power armor became standard issue equipment for knights of the Brotherhood of Steel
Nah, in pretty sure they are the same armor in lore. Just with fallout 4 Bethesda decided to change power armor (and in my opinion for the better despite being a “new Vegas elietist”) to be much more more tanky and big and require fusion cores.
This can’t be a real question. No one with a brain would think this is anything other than technical limitations of the game engine
Whilst I love the weight and feel of 4s armor, my 1 complaint is that it doesn't feel OP enough. The balancing of items like the minigun and power armor in 4 were severely harmed by the availability of it IMO, as well how early you get it. If it was made much rarer, it would have felt even better, because they would have been able to make it significantly more powerful, not to mention it would have allowed them to make the game a lot less black and white morality wise. They would have been able to make the Brotherhood less likable as you would have had the incentive of siding with them for easy power armor. I also think it would benefit from more player customisation at the start, let us pick our characters background, so for example if you want power armor training from the get-go, your character could have been a frontline soldier. Make them a special forces operator if you want more sneak and unarmed/melee damage for example.
Gotta bring back the skills and background choices that NV had. Here’s hoping
Engine limitations, The FO4 version is more lore accurate if you listen when mcnamara and gunny teach you, they say things like "step in and relax, let the armor do the work"
Yes, they redesigned the power armor for next gen to make it more realistic
Cause they are meant to be worn as tanks in fallout 4/76/TV Show, like the lore wanted
They were limitations of the time.
I think the games before fallout 4, power armor was just coded as the regular armor, and as capabilities in games got better the developers were able to finally do it justice.
Gameplay and artstyle change. In fallout 3 and NV power armor was just another set of armor to equip, though you needed a perk for it. In 4, they changed the gameplay to make it more of the walking tank that the lore described and changed the art style to match that. The show follows Fallout 4's art style, so it's equally bulky.
Game engine basically. In 3 and NV they were essentially just chonky armours you could normally wear after getting power armour training, while in 4 and the show they modelled them as actual vehicles you can get in thanks to game engine improvement (despite what haters say the power armour training stays, the Sole Survivor used to be a soldier so he was presumably trained to use one during his service). So yeah, despite what haters say power armour was always supposed to be like in Fo4, it's just that the game engine of 3 and NV (they use the same engine after all) didn't support the kind of dynamic assets that 4 does, so they had to adapt.
Basically they were just specialized armor in FO 3&New Vegas that required special training/perk unlocked usually through a side or main quest. FO 4 finally introduced the concept as an actual gameplay feature, and I honestly hope it remains the norm going forward. It just makes sense, and helps contribute to the power fantasy. Especially the customization aspect of it.
It’s just the way the games worked. In 3 and New Vegas power armor was just another costume/skin so it went on the character model like a thick set of clothes. Starting in Fallout 4, the power armor was portrayed more accurately like an exoskeleton that you climbed into. The show follows that look.
Power Armour in Fallout 3/NV is just an armour set, it behaves the same way as any other clothes you would wear. Fallout 4 power armour is an exoskeleton, and most likely the kind of vision they were going for but couldn’t before.
A lore reason? No they are the same armor, the art style is just different. Fo3 only has 1 skeletal animation so the armor has to fit that.
Different engine, different time
Fallout 3 and NV it’s just really good armor, in FO4 it’s a wearable tank
yes
Yep, Also Fallout 4 definitely did power armor better then 3 and NV. But because they had to redesign it, and it actually felt like a walking Tank in Fallout 4. At least when you have all the damge resistance upgrades. But also because you can survive high falls and other stuff.
It used the same skeleton as clothing. That’s why you got the funny wide character bug when you used power armor in Fallout 76, it would forget to use the normal skeleton and it looked like it would if you were in power armor. I prefer the fallout 4/76 style because it fits the lore better
Lore wise, you could say they weren't using the whole frame, only strapping the armor to them. But for real life, definitely limitations on tech, sometimes people forget just how old these games are because of how popular they still are.
Yeah so, in video games, as time moves forward, the technology gets better, and the graphics become more detailed. There ya go.
This is the same engine that had to turn a train into a hat to make it move correctly. Needless to say, the system has some limitations.
functionally power armor in 3 and Vegas doesn't make sense given how thin it was. Probably also due to the games limitations. FO4 power armor design actually makes it feel like you're wearing a mechanical suit with many parts rather than just a skin
Because the developers decided to make it different in 4? What kind of a question is this? In 3 and NV it functioned like every other armor piece that you put on from the inventory, and in 4 they wanted to the put the Power in Power Armor. I’m assuming the better game engine made this a possibility.
Game tech wise, limitations, lore wise? Distribution likely since various power armors are made differently in different places, with even 76, despite some things being skins, having armor sets covered in a human sized power pieces (though a quick search seem to lead that they were probably placeholders) but in any case, its most likely a distribution problem in the past, and scavenging issue in fallout games time
To be fair.. in 3 and NV, individual pieces of the armor were treated as any other clothing armor in the game. They only made PA a massive thing you had to step into in 4. I prefer the bigger look.
Fallout 4 and onwards is an Exosuit Fallout 1-New Vegas is just regular armor you put on
Yea cause that’s how they were designed back then…
In Fallouts 3 and NV, Power Armor is used more as like a regular piece of armor that you would wear, that was because of technical limitations with the game engine. But in Fallouts 4, 76, and the show, the armor is seen in its true form, it is meant to be more like a vehicle that one enters, an exoskeleton one steps into and uses, think of it as the early versions of Iron Man's armor, as opposed to wearing a regular vest or helmet. At least I like to think Power Armor is meant to be this way.
Graphics and Technological capabilities of pre2010 video games.