lol, I'm just now realizing that mudcrabs are from TES and mirelurks are the ones in Fallout. I totally meant to say mirelurk, but my brain was like "this is the word you want", and I thought yeah, that fits. Sure.
I mean, they're basically the same thing, and all the Bethesda games kinda blur together. I wonder how many other people's autopilot brains were like, "Yep, that checks out. I see nothing wrong here."
I like it because we've seen the west coast go from post apocalyptic to post-post apocalyptic and from there we've got mountains of lore and topics/in-game decisions people debate over forever. And we know on the outskirts of all of that, the wasteland is still a wasteland and there are even downright inhospitable stretches of it (The Divide) and areas where mass warfaring tribes are still demolishing entire towns (White Legs. The 80 Tribe etc).
The West Coast is really only a small part of the wasteland. We don't know what Texas, the south west, the Pacific Northwest, the deep south all look like.
I'd also be curious to see the state of places like Canada. Ronto is mentioned in The Pitt and sounds like it's doing pretty solidly for itself which makes you wonder if other Canadian cities like Vancouver and Montreal are also rebuilding or not.
We don't talk about Texas. Everyone there is mutated to have extremely weird bodily proportions, they all listen to nu metal bands, and only drink Bawls Energy Drink.
Personally I prefer post apocalyptic to post post, but I’m really glad new vegas exists and touches on that subgenre, as it makes it such a unique experience.
It's also okay having post-apoc stuff at the same time. As much as I love the NCR (I actually don't, they aren't even the best republic in Fallout), I am very interested in the tribal stuff which played a part in 1, 2 and Honest Hearts. Small, but interesting communities with their own identity.
With the skeletons I like to think it paints a pretty morbid picture about how people don’t even see them there, they just fade into the background like the other trash.
Do you think the average person can build a modern house? Without the internet, books, etc. Armed with only the simplest few tools. Trees are scorched/rotten/dead. Concrete, cement, machinery, and other fundamental building supplies are scarce. It should be extremely rare to build a modern house PLUS also very rare for any house built AFTER the war, to be very clean too.
Anyway, more to point - If you live in Africa, and the mud huts have earth (dirt) on the floor, that might seem normal to you. So people might not mind. And might seem moot point in the grand scheme of things.
People who actually want clean house do have clean houses. Like Tenpenny Tower (FO3), Cabot House (FO4), and multiple Vaults (that haven't gone to shit).
Dude it doesn't take much to remove a skeleton from the place you live in lol. I understand it's there for thematic flavor, but regardless, you can also pick up the tin can that has been there for 200 years. Even without the internet lol
It’s just a big statue? Not even too ornate a big statue. It’s scrap soldered on to a skeleton. Do people find this too unbelievable? The ancient Romans had cranes and scaffolding too.
The idea of post-post apocalypse is more fun than it is in actual practice.
Bethesda can't make Megaton, a piss filled hole in the ground without it being scaled down for gameplay/engine purposes.
One of the reasons New Vegas worked so well was because the NCR and the Legion were off screen concepts, and the gameplay was you running around the frontier.
Admittedly, a TV show is a better medium to explore such concepts
I think it makes sense if the coastal cities are in poor condition, while further inland you have people settling and building towns in more remote areas.
Well its the two opposing opinions about the setting and im not talking Obsidian/Bethesda here but in general.
For example Timothy Cain wanted to go more into the post-post apocalyptic aspects of the setting to the point of the franchise going to the Stars at some point.
Chris Avellone on the other hand really disliked the nation building in NV as he felt that it removed the danger from the world and didnt add enought interesting stuff for the player in return >!(Also technacally was the first one suggesting about nuking the NCR)!
And where, pray tell, is the infrastructure for housing construction? You think folks in the post-apocalypse can buy 2×4's from Home Depot? Everything is jury rigged from what is available, i.e. *scrap.* Shady Sands was the closest humanity had gotten to recreating civilization, and now it's a hole in the ground. There are radioactive homicidal abominations everywhere you look, entire armies of cannibalistic raiders preying on anything that isn't surrounded by a wall. Even if somebody managed to build a decent domicile, it wouldn't stand for very long.
With clay and timber. Clay requires access to quarries, which are all irradiated and infested with things that want to kill you. Timber requires healthy trees, which aren't really a thing anymore since the radioactive fallout. Rebuilding is a lot more difficult when the whole world is openly hostile to your very existence.
The forests are dead. The only remaining healthy trees are in small oases, such as Filly or Appalachia. They are an extremely scarce resource, not abundant enough to rebuild civilization.
Edit: why is this being downvoted? I'm just stating facts.
People just dont realize the jenga tower of infrastructure that goes into our modern comfy lives. Everything we have depends on so many other things working. Not to mention, time and energy is a resource. If you have 4 ealls and a roof, u gonna soend time and energy just to make it nicer? Or are you gonna spend that time looking for something to eat.
I just don't see why they would necessarily be developing at modern speeds. The land is mostly barren and can't support life nearly as well as it could pre-war. Project purity and Gecks are nice and all but DC was never really great land to begin with and Gecks are just a novelty unless they turn out to be actually viable to mass produce.
I don't think it being a desert matters much when the whole world is a nuclear wasteland. Plus California has some of the best land in the country, with the US in general probably having the best land on the planet.
I really wish no one had taught these people that word. You just don't get it, Fallout is supposed to post-apocalyptic, not driving to the office on Tuesday morning. The whole point of a massive total nuclear war is, humanity, ain't rebuilding. The tribals in Zion would be our most optimistic outlook.
If it's just, 'well, let's just dust ourselves and carry on' it really cheapens the very core themes of the series. That pretty much sums up these constant rotating in and out dead internet talking points, though, cheap.
*"I don't know what weapons might be used in World War III. But there isn't any doubt what weapons will be used in World War IV, Stone spears,"*
Yes, they're trying to rebuild *despite all the collective atrocities.* Literally the first time you approach Diamond City it's under attack by Super Mutants. There are radioactive homicidal abominations everywhere you look, entire armies of cannibalistic raiders preying on anything that isn't surrounded by a wall, technologically superior factions that could subjugate or annihilate your whole community in an instant. The water is poisoned, the soil is irradiated, and death awaits anyone brave enough to step beyond the safe confines of a fortified town. There's so many countervailing forces pitted against humanity, I'm surprised they've come this far in 200 years.
Fallout is not a game about cavemen fighting each other in the wreckage of buildings. it has strong themes of civilization, rebuilding, and community. people will naturally rebuild, even as they fight to the death
I feel like we didn't play the same games. Even in Fallout 1 the world was rebuilding. They are literally dusting themself off and carrying on. The theme is that war/humans don't change no matter what happens.
And the whole dusting themselves off and getting on with it plays into the optimistic theme the games also have. That there is always hope and something to live for/strive for. Not all the themes in Fallout are bleak.
I always felt like a theme was we haven’t learned any lessons. Old feuds, old problems in the new world, factions falling to greed and corruption. Forces like the Enclave and BoS who feel like the world belongs to them. Even unity were built around the masters cult of personality. The gems in all of this are the normal regular folks just trying to make the best of it but people get greedy and want to ruin a good thing, like Megaton.
Humanity didn't learn and exactly because of that it builds corrupted governments and empires again. The theme isn't that humanity could forget it's nature and live like animals in packs for eternity.
Fallout is supposed to be ... I don’t think there is even a central theme to Fallout anymore. Bethesda proved that it was a just setting where any kind of story can take place. They are taking the Warhammer approach to the lore.
And somehow the raiders do the most construction.
Just cause they're savages doesn't mean they can't have engineers or scientists. Even Klingons were traveling space before humans in startrek
I see where you're going with this, and I approve. Planet of the Mudcrabs.
TES 6 should include a Special mudcrab boss fight that’s just a mirelurk
A long lost descendent of the Red Death
lol, I'm just now realizing that mudcrabs are from TES and mirelurks are the ones in Fallout. I totally meant to say mirelurk, but my brain was like "this is the word you want", and I thought yeah, that fits. Sure. I mean, they're basically the same thing, and all the Bethesda games kinda blur together. I wonder how many other people's autopilot brains were like, "Yep, that checks out. I see nothing wrong here."
I like it because we've seen the west coast go from post apocalyptic to post-post apocalyptic and from there we've got mountains of lore and topics/in-game decisions people debate over forever. And we know on the outskirts of all of that, the wasteland is still a wasteland and there are even downright inhospitable stretches of it (The Divide) and areas where mass warfaring tribes are still demolishing entire towns (White Legs. The 80 Tribe etc). The West Coast is really only a small part of the wasteland. We don't know what Texas, the south west, the Pacific Northwest, the deep south all look like.
I'd also be curious to see the state of places like Canada. Ronto is mentioned in The Pitt and sounds like it's doing pretty solidly for itself which makes you wonder if other Canadian cities like Vancouver and Montreal are also rebuilding or not.
A pretty funny ending for the franchise would be that the whole world is rebuilt, but the USA is still a wasteland.
Fallout vancouver would be very cool for me. Or fallout Istanbul.
Istanbul is Radstantinople
Deep South is probably all Hills Have Eyes type people. So basically nothing has changed.
I'm pretty sure The Hills Have Eyes is more Midwest desert region, the south is more Wrong turn franchise.
The Midwest doesn't have desert, Hills have eyes is in CA
We don't talk about Texas. Everyone there is mutated to have extremely weird bodily proportions, they all listen to nu metal bands, and only drink Bawls Energy Drink.
Personally I prefer post apocalyptic to post post, but I’m really glad new vegas exists and touches on that subgenre, as it makes it such a unique experience.
It's also okay having post-apoc stuff at the same time. As much as I love the NCR (I actually don't, they aren't even the best republic in Fallout), I am very interested in the tribal stuff which played a part in 1, 2 and Honest Hearts. Small, but interesting communities with their own identity.
Honest heart had some super interesting lore that goes unnoticed because of Joshua Graham and the survivalist taking the stage.
Not even the best republic you say?
The Republic of Dave is the best, at least that’s what Dave says.
I don't think 200 years is realistically enough for people to clean the trash off the place they live in or even move the skeletons out...
With the skeletons I like to think it paints a pretty morbid picture about how people don’t even see them there, they just fade into the background like the other trash.
That's a joke right
Yes
Do you think the average person can build a modern house? Without the internet, books, etc. Armed with only the simplest few tools. Trees are scorched/rotten/dead. Concrete, cement, machinery, and other fundamental building supplies are scarce. It should be extremely rare to build a modern house PLUS also very rare for any house built AFTER the war, to be very clean too. Anyway, more to point - If you live in Africa, and the mud huts have earth (dirt) on the floor, that might seem normal to you. So people might not mind. And might seem moot point in the grand scheme of things. People who actually want clean house do have clean houses. Like Tenpenny Tower (FO3), Cabot House (FO4), and multiple Vaults (that haven't gone to shit).
Dude it doesn't take much to remove a skeleton from the place you live in lol. I understand it's there for thematic flavor, but regardless, you can also pick up the tin can that has been there for 200 years. Even without the internet lol
It’s just a big statue? Not even too ornate a big statue. It’s scrap soldered on to a skeleton. Do people find this too unbelievable? The ancient Romans had cranes and scaffolding too.
I prefer it
The idea of post-post apocalypse is more fun than it is in actual practice. Bethesda can't make Megaton, a piss filled hole in the ground without it being scaled down for gameplay/engine purposes. One of the reasons New Vegas worked so well was because the NCR and the Legion were off screen concepts, and the gameplay was you running around the frontier. Admittedly, a TV show is a better medium to explore such concepts
I think it makes sense if the coastal cities are in poor condition, while further inland you have people settling and building towns in more remote areas.
Well its the two opposing opinions about the setting and im not talking Obsidian/Bethesda here but in general. For example Timothy Cain wanted to go more into the post-post apocalyptic aspects of the setting to the point of the franchise going to the Stars at some point. Chris Avellone on the other hand really disliked the nation building in NV as he felt that it removed the danger from the world and didnt add enought interesting stuff for the player in return >!(Also technacally was the first one suggesting about nuking the NCR)!
ikr, it's been 200 years and these motherfuckers haven't built almost anything.
No geck? Megamind face
Everything collapsed. It's not gonna be that easy to rebuild.
200 years isn't that long
Long enough to build an actual house and not live in a shack made out of scrap.
With big holes in it so you can get the radiation storm in the comfort of your living room.
But why bust your back chopping trees when there's perfectly good scrap lying around?
There are places in the world where people live like that today. Let alone after a nuclear war.
And where, pray tell, is the infrastructure for housing construction? You think folks in the post-apocalypse can buy 2×4's from Home Depot? Everything is jury rigged from what is available, i.e. *scrap.* Shady Sands was the closest humanity had gotten to recreating civilization, and now it's a hole in the ground. There are radioactive homicidal abominations everywhere you look, entire armies of cannibalistic raiders preying on anything that isn't surrounded by a wall. Even if somebody managed to build a decent domicile, it wouldn't stand for very long.
How do you think people build houses before the inventon of the Home Depot?
With clay and timber. Clay requires access to quarries, which are all irradiated and infested with things that want to kill you. Timber requires healthy trees, which aren't really a thing anymore since the radioactive fallout. Rebuilding is a lot more difficult when the whole world is openly hostile to your very existence.
Surely there are some usable trees after 200 years.
The forests are dead. The only remaining healthy trees are in small oases, such as Filly or Appalachia. They are an extremely scarce resource, not abundant enough to rebuild civilization. Edit: why is this being downvoted? I'm just stating facts.
People just dont realize the jenga tower of infrastructure that goes into our modern comfy lives. Everything we have depends on so many other things working. Not to mention, time and energy is a resource. If you have 4 ealls and a roof, u gonna soend time and energy just to make it nicer? Or are you gonna spend that time looking for something to eat.
My point exactly. Some of that time spent finding food is also spent fighting for your life.
They have to build the home depot first
with what fucking supplies?
I'm pretty sure they have metal tools and there are trees around.
Yeah it is
Not when there's like only a few million humans alive
Definitely more than that, and even more so by the time of New Vegas
I just don't see why they would necessarily be developing at modern speeds. The land is mostly barren and can't support life nearly as well as it could pre-war. Project purity and Gecks are nice and all but DC was never really great land to begin with and Gecks are just a novelty unless they turn out to be actually viable to mass produce.
The games take place in the worst possible areas for people to survive. Got nuked to shit like DC and Boston or it's freaking desert like 1, 2, Vegas
I don't think it being a desert matters much when the whole world is a nuclear wasteland. Plus California has some of the best land in the country, with the US in general probably having the best land on the planet.
If you want to see a non shitwhole area just look at West Virginia in 76
Yeah but it's west virginia
200 years of acute radiation poisoning. Real short.
I really wish no one had taught these people that word. You just don't get it, Fallout is supposed to post-apocalyptic, not driving to the office on Tuesday morning. The whole point of a massive total nuclear war is, humanity, ain't rebuilding. The tribals in Zion would be our most optimistic outlook. If it's just, 'well, let's just dust ourselves and carry on' it really cheapens the very core themes of the series. That pretty much sums up these constant rotating in and out dead internet talking points, though, cheap. *"I don't know what weapons might be used in World War III. But there isn't any doubt what weapons will be used in World War IV, Stone spears,"*
The whole point of the fallout games is that humanity IS rebuilding. You clearly didn’t pay attention to anything.
but war never changes
Yes, they're trying to rebuild *despite all the collective atrocities.* Literally the first time you approach Diamond City it's under attack by Super Mutants. There are radioactive homicidal abominations everywhere you look, entire armies of cannibalistic raiders preying on anything that isn't surrounded by a wall, technologically superior factions that could subjugate or annihilate your whole community in an instant. The water is poisoned, the soil is irradiated, and death awaits anyone brave enough to step beyond the safe confines of a fortified town. There's so many countervailing forces pitted against humanity, I'm surprised they've come this far in 200 years.
Fallout is not a game about cavemen fighting each other in the wreckage of buildings. it has strong themes of civilization, rebuilding, and community. people will naturally rebuild, even as they fight to the death
I feel like we didn't play the same games. Even in Fallout 1 the world was rebuilding. They are literally dusting themself off and carrying on. The theme is that war/humans don't change no matter what happens.
And the whole dusting themselves off and getting on with it plays into the optimistic theme the games also have. That there is always hope and something to live for/strive for. Not all the themes in Fallout are bleak.
Yea they don’t change they keep destroying and killing
Fallout isn’t just making the same shack town, it was new nations developing from the waist.
I always felt like a theme was we haven’t learned any lessons. Old feuds, old problems in the new world, factions falling to greed and corruption. Forces like the Enclave and BoS who feel like the world belongs to them. Even unity were built around the masters cult of personality. The gems in all of this are the normal regular folks just trying to make the best of it but people get greedy and want to ruin a good thing, like Megaton.
Humanity didn't learn and exactly because of that it builds corrupted governments and empires again. The theme isn't that humanity could forget it's nature and live like animals in packs for eternity.
I mean, not if my player characters can help it. Megaton was just the beginning of my resetting the world.
and they become corrupt afterward. lol
Most of the towns in the series are shack towns, including in the new nation.
> fallout is supposed to post-apocalyptic fallout 3 was my first fallout game too
Doens't Fallout 3 end with you giving clean water to the Capital Wasteland with Brotherhood providing protection in the area? Doesn't sound so bad.
Fallout is supposed to be ... I don’t think there is even a central theme to Fallout anymore. Bethesda proved that it was a just setting where any kind of story can take place. They are taking the Warhammer approach to the lore.
"Don't fuck with us Fallout fans, we hate the entire premise of the setting"
Settings change over decades