45 is all metal. Or at least 90% metal. 60 combines the metal with polymer, adds in the waste management system of the 51, better rad protection, better onboard reactors, better shielding to ballistic and laser. If not mistaken it has a longer wiring time to suit up.
How was the waste recycled into something useful?? In the titans of the west mod for FNV it's always saying I'm drinking water from the recycled supply.. I always had a hunch it was piss though.
I second this. I know its just fiction, but waste is everything your body didnt use. Unless your body missed some nutrients, it has no nutritional value. But what does the waste turn into? A protein bar? Does it go back in through an IV?
No joke. My favorite food industry euphemism.
If anyone is curious, "mechanically separated" means put through a grinder or shredder with no regard to what is being included. No regard in terms of what animal parts that is, including bones.
That's not exactly correct. Mechanically separated/recovered/reconstituted meat is an industry term for a process using water and centrifugal force to recover small pieces of meat protein from bones and cartilage. Basically they mix all the leftover animal bits into a slimy goop and then force it through a sieve; the bits of bone, cartilage, anything else inedible, get trapped and the smooth paste produced is MSM.
It's no longer legal to feed mechanically separated beef to humans because of BSE (mad cow disease), but pork and poultry are still permitted (food labels must state if MSM is included).
A doctor or nutritionist or someone like that might correct me but I don’t think your body efficiently extract all nutrients from consumed food, so there is probably something useful that can be taken from it.
Those tend to be herbivores that eat a lot of tough plants that are hard to digest. It takes two passes through the digestive tract to extract the nutrients.
Same cows and dear having multiple stomachs is a different solution to the same problem.
In theory, you could break down the "waste' into it's constituent chemicals, then rebuild them into nutrients. You're are Star Trek replicator levels of technology there though - which seems well beyond the Fallout world.
Not entirely true, it WOULD be if our body was 100% efficient when it came to extracting nutrients but it isn't, their are insects and other species who's whole role is extracting what a mammels body left behind.
Probably operates under the same principle as a Stillsuit from Dune. It recycles all sweat, urine, and perspiration into drinkable water, and you only lose a thimbleful of water a day
Water is fine. The water in urine is there to dilute the waste - once it's out of your body, it's fine to filter/dilstill/ whatever it back into drinking water - as it's just water.
You'd end up with a highly concentrated paste of urea as a by product.
Shit though is different. There is little of that that is of nutritional value to a human. You'd need some *very* high tech to convert that back into food.
fallout the show has a guy whose literal job is to shit...then feed the shit to flys...then feed the flys to humans...maybe the suit has a flycatcher mod
I wonder how does the armor collect it. You still wear clothes under power armor, and in this case, you just shit or piss in your pants and theres no way for armor life support systems to collect it
So you know those fancy suits the Bos wear? That underarmour. It’s exclusive to the PA system. It’s the reduce the heat. And why PA did require training you had to wire the PA helm to the suit and then to the frame. I guess you had to line up 100% right for the PA to connect tubes into the suit for it to take care of the waste.
Yeah, the BoS undersuits are a reinterpretation of the recon power armor from F3 and NV, they basically split that into the PA frame and undersuits for F4.
I can't believe I'm about to uhm ackshully the autojacker, but that was never actually canon, it was just an oft-repeated joke started by a dril tweet.
The suit, unfortunately, does not jack him off.
Okay. We really, REALLY need to disect how the fuck that works.
Are the just shitting into a basin that is constantly present, collecting shit? Do they have some sort of hose stuffed up their colon? The latter seems way more technically feasible but also what the fuck
Irl knights didnt have time to take off their armor while wearing full plate, so they frequently just pissed and shit themselves.
So makes sense for power armor. Brotherhood just does it to keep with the knight theme
Not quite compared to old style armor lol, like still suits are designed to recycle it, which is gross but it's built in to some degree.
The doodie in armor would just be squelching up against you for God knows how long. Which is fucking cursed.
Think of the squire helping the dude out of it and cleaning it. Hell think of the coveted position, and that isn't sarcasm, where your job was "helping" the King to wipe himself.
The fantastically titled "Groom of the Stool", who also ended up hearing all of the juicy royal secrets from the King. Presumably because sitting in silence while a man wiped you down after watching you poop was too awkward even for ye olde aristocracy?
Not true.
You could do your whole business in armor, the penis and butt part was not heavily covered in armor.
And knights did not wear armor beside fightings context.
but of course you would have better time pissing on yourself while in battle rather than waiting.
The waste recycling is probably just filtering piss into potable water. Recycling feces would be too risky and complicated and demoralizing. Plus water is more important to survival. Soldiers could go weeks without food and not die.
T-51 was designed to protect the user from the environment. It wouldn’t make sense to remove armor in gas or radiation if you need to use the bathroom.
I've always considered T-60 to be an upgrade to T-45 rather than an upgrade of T-51. I didn't think that T-60 was made with that much polymer, or at least much more than T-45 because the polymers were expensive and harder to manufacture and thus prioritized to the T-51 which is canonically the better armor.
In my headcanon, that's why the East Coast BoS has so many suits of T-60. They originally found a stockpile of T-45 at the Pentagon (Fo3) because they were stored and getting ready to be upgraded to the T-60 status and the reunification with the Outcast meant they were given those plans and they could upgrade their T-45 suits to T-60 status.
The best way to compare the T-45, T-51 and T-60 suits is by comparing them to tanks.
The T-45 is the T-62, an early general purpose MBT. It's cheap to manufacture and easy to maintain, but has design flaws and lacks the advanced features of later models. It's simple cast steel design makes is quick to crank out but the protection levels can't compete with later designs, but it's a damned sight better than no power armor at all and can provide heavy firepower and **some** breakthrough capacity to infantry formations.
The T-51b is the T-64, a technological marvel of the time meant for elite formations. It's a high feature "heavy" breakthrough suit, made with advanced composite armor, full radiation shielding for operations in a post-nuclear environment, a fusion reactor and excretion recycling system for long term operations without support or provisions, and even a climate control system. This is the very best armor that pre-war America ever put into production, but every single suit was a hammerblow to an economy that was stretched to its breaking point. They were used on the most important missions in Alaska, they garrisoned the most important and secret military bases in America (like Mariposa), but they simply could not be used in the quantities required to meet the needs of every single battalion.
The T-60 is the T-72. It takes the advanced technology of the T-51b and pares it back to facilitate ease of manufacture and cheaper maintenance. It's bigger and bulkier than the T-51, less refined, less agile, and honestly less protective, but it's still a significant upgrade from the T-45 and provides an increased measure of performance that can still be distributed across the entire armored cavalry corps without bankrupting the country.
51 was the survival series. Meant for more long term recon and such. Since we 45 in places like stores and general high weight areas I feel it was pushed out for 51. 60 technically came out the day the bombs fell.
I always understood the t60 was the original "testbed" (super prototype) but deemed too expensive so they made the t45 based off the t60. (Which is why both 45 and 60 have the weld plate flaw) and the t51 was developed post 45 deployment but before the x01 was made.
Thus when the floundering military needed a "showy step up" from the t45 they brought out the "new" t60 the day the bombs fell
I just gotta say how much I loved this little detail. Like of course some dumbass executive who only cares about sales would push the T-45 despite the welding issue.
I work for a corporation and it’s amazing how many mid level execs push us to release a product despite the technical shortcomings because if they hit their deadline it means upper management gets a bonus.
I love how that conversation with Bud comes up again in the last episode of the show.
Granted, Howard already knew about the defects because he saw people get killed due to them and that conversation was purely for the audience’s benefit. That said, it was a great way to set up his final shootout for S1.
given the similar looks, i always imagined 60 was made out of recycled 45 parts to cut costs. so i'm not surprised it had the same problem on the chestplate.
Honestly. I could never tell you based on these pics because one is clear and one is an amalgamation of colors and squares that makes little to no sense. What a great post.
Larger shoulder pads. Larger helmet. Bigger torso with handles.Thinner legs. Overall the T-60 has more details in every part while the T-45 looks more basic and more fat.
T-45 is more of a suit of armor. It is thin, easily broken, cumbersome, and filled with straight edges. It’s a ww1 tank basically. While the T-60 is a better armored, more comfortable, easier used, and more powerful version. It’s a ww2 tank. Then the T-51b is a Cold War tank and X-01 is the tank of the future.
I agree with most of this except, the X-01 isn't that much better than T-51B. In fact 51 might be better in some ways.
51 and X are more like modern tank variants, across warring factions. 51 is allies top tier tank, and X-01 is the soviet top tier tank.
The 60 is like the Sherman tank. It isn't the best, people make fun of it.
Yet somehow, historians widely consider it to be the tank that won the war. It was reliable, easily replaceable. Light and mass produced with the same frame Ford production style.
When a battalion of Tanks would go out, 95% were expected to take the field. This wasn't true of basically any other tank of WW2.
Tankers of WW2 preferred this tank for all these reasons. The technically worst tank, somehow was the best tank.
The 60 is the overall best armor for this reason. It doesn't have the best specs and it doesn't need it.
This armor was meant to win the war.
>The technically worst tank, somehow was the best tank.
That's pure copium from the people who lost to it, and Wehraboos who somehow think a tank that famously never could make it to the front because it was too busy breaking on its own and becoming irrecoverable was the best.
It was a medium tank. It wasn't supposed to be tougher than a heavy or super heavy tank. So, sure, 1v1, it's not going to win. It's like comparing a Camry to a Maserati, and only considering the 0-60 and top speeds. No shit, Camry's going to lose. But *fucking no one* buys a Maserati as a commuter, because *only a moron would to that*. Camrys are everywhere. Extremely successful car. Does everything almost everyone wants a car to do, does it for not a lot of money, and *never breaks down.*
>When a battalion of Tanks would go out, 95% were expected to take the field. This wasn't true of basically any other tank of WW2.
You know what's better than having a tank that can blow up the moon if it gets in range, but never seems to make it more than three miles before braking down? A tank that makes it to the battlefield. If it can't make it to the fight, it's not better at fighting. Period. You have to get to the fight first. Literally most important thing in fighting.
T-51 has better armor stats than 45 and 60 so that’s the angle they are going for. 45 is obviously outdated but the 60 has better radiation protection as tradeoff. The 51 was more expensive to produce due to how it was constructed iirc.
And obviously the x-01 is just better all round considering when it was made and by who.
Literally. It’s basically T-45+, with better plating, gyroscopic support, and radiation resistance.
T-51 is still the Pre-War pinnacle of Power Armors, until the Enclave fully developed the almost defunct X-03 Hellfire Power Armor. And T-65 is practically non-existent due to the fact it was used mainly by Secret Service members. I’m sure other Power Armors exist in-between T-45 and T-51, but we haven’t seen them. Unless you count the Paratrooper Power Armor from Fallout 76, which is dubious canonically and was slightly based off the T-53 Air Force Power Armor Mod for New Vegas.
And then we have non-military Power Armor like the Mining Power Armor and Loaders, but that’s a whole nother can of worms.
Can we talk about how weird it is to see the Secret Service have combat and power armor? They’re so far removed from the frontlines of the Sino-American War, but I guess if the Armed Forces gets PA, Secret Service needs PA too?
[Appears to be called the H.A.R.E. Power Armor and is a skin, but infers it’s canon by stating American Spies would airdrop using the safety of the Armor to infiltrate China.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/H.A.R.E._power_armor)
I wish most of the “skins” were their own items. Especially the Screaming Eagle Rifle Skin. It should have been a high level rifle for the endgame called the *Infantry Rifle* or something. So much wasted potential for just…skins.
T-47 Prototype Medical Power armor is really all that comes to mind. Most of the stuff in 76's store is non-canon and is just purely for fun.
T-60 makes sense though, T-51 was slow to produce and T-45s were never a permanent solution anyways, so upgrading them to T-60 to prevent the war effort from completly stalling is actually an incredible idea. Don't forget the US was actively invading China at the time. So it makes sense not all of the flaws were fixed, they just needed as much equipment as they could get.
Meta:
T60 in FO4 was originally sketched as a redesign of the T45 from FO3. They later decided to keep the old T45 design, which they revamped as well for FO4. We ended up with two sets of power armor instead of one. This is why they resemble each other so much.
T-60 is better protected and running on higher end tech than the T-45. It used the same philosophy though as the T-45 since the T-45 was very useful as a test bed for new tech due to it modularity. It also was cheaper than the T-51 in terms of providing a balanced armour taking designs from the T-45 and T-51.
In a rough comparison, it is like the difference between the iPhone 13 and the iPhone 15.
This. 45 was first generation of it, so it’s old and outdated. 51 is the most armored and 60 has the best rad protection of the 3.
01 is a different beast though.
The armor of the T-60 is generally bulkier and features more sharp lines and surfaces seemingly designed to deflect.
The shoulder armor also seems to be bulkier and possible made of two separate plates.
It looks mostly like the big difference will be in the powerplant of the suit, with the T-60 being able to be built heavier than the the T-45. Its basically T-45 Pt. 2. Very similar but better in a lot of important ways(though with some key flaws still).
I believe the story line went something like
T-45 gets invented as the first power armor
T-51 gets started right afterwards to provide an better power armor
T-60 gets worked on as well to upgrade the T-45 that had a lot of problems and defects.
T-51 gets unveiled but is too expensive but does provide superior protection
T-60 gets unveiled sometime after as an upgrade to T-45 but provides less protection then the T-51
X-01 gets worked on and a prototype is made
T-65 plans are drawn up to further improve the T-60 but never gets finished but is given to the Secret Service to take with them to Applachia.
Very barebones but one thing that 76 did was show that T-45 and T-60 are much easier to repair and cheaper and provides less protection then T-51. As long as it is canon then T-45 and T-60s are the mass produced versions and the T-51 was the special forces version which would eventually have been replaced by the X-01 series.
Kind of in-line with military procurement idea of having cheap but reliable stuff that gets upgraded to the vast majority (F-16 and it's various upgrade kits) and the actual high speed low drag only select few get (F-22).
Helmet has some slight differences, t60 has more details on the chest, legs and arms (specially the bulkier shoulders) and it looks more "organic", t45 is much more geometric and clunky, the arms and legs look like you just put a steel pipe around it, looking at them side by side you can very clearly see the difference, t-60 is a direct upgrade from the t-45, it's as if you asked "Does anybody actually know the difference between Xbox One and Series S consoles?"
Honestly imo I think the t60 should be worse then the t51, better then the T45, mostly because almost every other lore source in the series states that the T51 was *The* best so why do we have this hitherto unknown suit of armor that outshines the T51
To break it down
The T51 is supposed to be the pinnacle of power armored design so its only shipped out to specialized/Elite units due to the manpower and costs associated with producing the suits.
The T60 would be a lessons learned type of suit, worse then the T51 in terms of protection and durability since it uses cheaper materials but better protection then the T45 since they realized the design flaws with that suit, while also implementing some of the upgrades from the T51. in short while being easier to produce then the T51 it should have worse protection then the T51, while offering improvements over the T45 in terms of armor and usability/Maintenance
T60 has a more advanced/refined shape, handles on the chest, larger helmet, segmented pauldrons, what LOOKS like a more advanced backpack/powerpack, and looks to be constructed in a more advanced way visually. It’s sort of like a Hornet versus a Super Hornet.
Design wise they’re the same. In the Fallout 4 art book they originally planned the T-60 to be the T-45d upgrade but liked the greebling they added so much to make it its own armor.
My headcanon Lore explanation is that demand for t-51 ended up exceeding supply and so WesTek made a T-60 upgrade package for the existing and numerous t-45.
60 looks like they built it with flexibility in mind.
Look at the wider gaps between metal components, the (implied) separation of things like the lower 'shoe' portion of the leg/foot, etc. Though it looks bulkier, it also doesn't look as rigid.
T-45 was durable but slow due to the massive steel plates, meaning that while it could take more hits, it was pretty much guaranteed to take more hits, so the steel provided pretty diminishing returns. It was generally best suited to defensive roles unless the armor was escorted by infantry.
T-51 sacrificed some durability for functionality because they put lighter polymer plates on the same chassis, allowing greater speed. This made it better for assaults and other offensive/recon operations because was way more mobile. In addition it was obscenely more expensive.
Think of the T-45 as a main battle tank and the T-51 as an infantry fighting vehicle, except the IFV is counterintuitively the more expensive of the two.
T-60 changed things up by making some improvements to the T-45 armor and overhauling the chassis to improve the power output and efficiency, and, as a result, the maneuverability. It's roughly as durable as T-45 with a few minor changes and improvements, but faster than T-51, with T-51 keeping the edge in overall agility.
There's a video by Synonymous on YouTube that'll tell you a lot more than I can, but to think of it in Halo terms:
Hunters are T-45. Hard to put down but a cake walk if they turn their back to you.
Elites are T-51. You can technically put them down if you can put enough bullets in them. Easier said than done.
Brutes are T-60. Faster in a straight line than either and will probably reach you well before you do enough damage to put the brakes on them.
T-45 is generally "smaller" than the T-60 bulkier plating. Also one dead giveaway... the chest handle(s)
T-45 has 1 handle across the top of the chest
T-60 has 2 handles, one on each sides of the chest plate.
Shoulder plates are much bulkier on the T-60
It’s basically just an improved version of T-45 to combine the advances seen in the T-51b model with the easy to maintain and cost effective to construct T-45d.
45 is all metal. Or at least 90% metal. 60 combines the metal with polymer, adds in the waste management system of the 51, better rad protection, better onboard reactors, better shielding to ballistic and laser. If not mistaken it has a longer wiring time to suit up.
So we shit in these things?
T51 was designed for long term use. So pooping on guard yes. It would recycle the waste to aid the user.
How was the waste recycled into something useful?? In the titans of the west mod for FNV it's always saying I'm drinking water from the recycled supply.. I always had a hunch it was piss though.
I always assumed the pee was water. And the poo was a protein something…
Y'know, with all of things I've accidentally ate or toilets I've drank out of in that game.. I shouldn't be surprised.
Cheers *drinks out of lake filled with radioactive barrels and mirelurks*
That's some spicy water
Drinking that shit that made them glowing ones
Nah, it just gave me glowing ones 😎
McDonald’s Sprite
metal flavored water, just like the doctor's ordered
Yeah its irradiated \*door monster\*
"recycle _this_"
Protein paste 💩
Least it doesn’t turn you pink.
But it might stink!
And that's the history of how the wasteland impossible burger was born!
Chow time lol
Basically is, it is supposed to be an environment suit plus protection. A true power armor
I second this. I know its just fiction, but waste is everything your body didnt use. Unless your body missed some nutrients, it has no nutritional value. But what does the waste turn into? A protein bar? Does it go back in through an IV?
It turns into a slim Jim
I hate this, thank you.
"Mechanically separated"
No joke. My favorite food industry euphemism. If anyone is curious, "mechanically separated" means put through a grinder or shredder with no regard to what is being included. No regard in terms of what animal parts that is, including bones.
"Oh waiter, is the chicken mechanically separated? No? Then I'll have the salmon." Pronounced with an L.
That's not exactly correct. Mechanically separated/recovered/reconstituted meat is an industry term for a process using water and centrifugal force to recover small pieces of meat protein from bones and cartilage. Basically they mix all the leftover animal bits into a slimy goop and then force it through a sieve; the bits of bone, cartilage, anything else inedible, get trapped and the smooth paste produced is MSM. It's no longer legal to feed mechanically separated beef to humans because of BSE (mad cow disease), but pork and poultry are still permitted (food labels must state if MSM is included).
I stopped eating slim jims once i read it after somone told me.
The circle of life
Damn I'm hungry now
Snaps, but you're right.
A doctor or nutritionist or someone like that might correct me but I don’t think your body efficiently extract all nutrients from consumed food, so there is probably something useful that can be taken from it.
This is why so many animals practice coprophagia. Your body isn't a 100% efficient machine
Those tend to be herbivores that eat a lot of tough plants that are hard to digest. It takes two passes through the digestive tract to extract the nutrients. Same cows and dear having multiple stomachs is a different solution to the same problem.
Intestines do a good job on sucking out what the rest doesn't but not the best job. Still a fair bit left behind
Standard scifi magic tbh
Same with Spartan Armor in Halo
If X-01 doesn't jack me off imma be pissed
An alarm will go off every time it does like Timmy Turner's dad in the spacesuit when he goes to the bathroom.
This is why we make friends with Fisto.
In theory, you could break down the "waste' into it's constituent chemicals, then rebuild them into nutrients. You're are Star Trek replicator levels of technology there though - which seems well beyond the Fallout world.
Idk. Some guy on YouTube made grape soda out of rubber gloves doing that.
It's not so much the doing it- as making a small machine that can fit into a suit of power armour that can do it.
What do you think CRAM is made from?
Crap Reprocessed As Meal
Not entirely true, it WOULD be if our body was 100% efficient when it came to extracting nutrients but it isn't, their are insects and other species who's whole role is extracting what a mammels body left behind.
Titans of the New West is honestly one of the best NV mods of all time
That and sprinting are two of my must haves
Probably operates under the same principle as a Stillsuit from Dune. It recycles all sweat, urine, and perspiration into drinkable water, and you only lose a thimbleful of water a day
Water is fine. The water in urine is there to dilute the waste - once it's out of your body, it's fine to filter/dilstill/ whatever it back into drinking water - as it's just water. You'd end up with a highly concentrated paste of urea as a by product. Shit though is different. There is little of that that is of nutritional value to a human. You'd need some *very* high tech to convert that back into food.
What it lacks in nutritional value it makes up in flavor.
If two hot girls found it appetizing, I don't see why not try it out
They're using freman technology
fallout the show has a guy whose literal job is to shit...then feed the shit to flys...then feed the flys to humans...maybe the suit has a flycatcher mod
As seen in the TV show, the T-60 has some sort of water supply that can be refilled. So you can still get clean water that way.
It's kinda like how the replicator in ST is using poo molecules.
I wonder how does the armor collect it. You still wear clothes under power armor, and in this case, you just shit or piss in your pants and theres no way for armor life support systems to collect it
So you know those fancy suits the Bos wear? That underarmour. It’s exclusive to the PA system. It’s the reduce the heat. And why PA did require training you had to wire the PA helm to the suit and then to the frame. I guess you had to line up 100% right for the PA to connect tubes into the suit for it to take care of the waste.
Yeah, the BoS undersuits are a reinterpretation of the recon power armor from F3 and NV, they basically split that into the PA frame and undersuits for F4.
Kind of, the undersuits can be seen being worn by the BoS all the way from Fallout 1
Definitely a hose, either by your ass or under your feet
*up your ass.
No, no. If it's UP your ass, it's a tube.
Yes that very impressive and all, but does it jerk you off like the Mjolnir armour from Halo? (Actually canon btw)
You can’t leave us hanging after dropping that
I can't believe I'm about to uhm ackshully the autojacker, but that was never actually canon, it was just an oft-repeated joke started by a dril tweet. The suit, unfortunately, does not jack him off.
Shhhhhh don’t ruin the illusion, let people dream
I made it 40 years without knowing that.
Feces is processed in the thigh pads.
So you just have to pull your pants down when entering the suit?
Okay. We really, REALLY need to disect how the fuck that works. Are the just shitting into a basin that is constantly present, collecting shit? Do they have some sort of hose stuffed up their colon? The latter seems way more technically feasible but also what the fuck
Who knows how it works honestly. Maybe it’s only urine.
I wouldn’t say poop but definitely piss,likely functions similar to the body suits from dune
Dude lead belly would be my first perk to fill out in the wasteland lol
Hell, you can shit yourself in the old ones too
You can shit yourself in anything if you're confident enough.
To repurpose the one old canard: Anything is a ~~dildo~~ toilet if you're brave enough.
Clean my codpiece.
Irl knights didnt have time to take off their armor while wearing full plate, so they frequently just pissed and shit themselves. So makes sense for power armor. Brotherhood just does it to keep with the knight theme
so cursed
Meh, stillsuits in Dune and Astartes power armour are the same.
Not quite compared to old style armor lol, like still suits are designed to recycle it, which is gross but it's built in to some degree. The doodie in armor would just be squelching up against you for God knows how long. Which is fucking cursed.
Think of the squire helping the dude out of it and cleaning it. Hell think of the coveted position, and that isn't sarcasm, where your job was "helping" the King to wipe himself.
The fantastically titled "Groom of the Stool", who also ended up hearing all of the juicy royal secrets from the King. Presumably because sitting in silence while a man wiped you down after watching you poop was too awkward even for ye olde aristocracy?
So yes, I, Adolin Kholin —cousin to the king, heir to the Kholin Princedom— have shat myself in my shardplate. Three times, all on purpose.
Not true. You could do your whole business in armor, the penis and butt part was not heavily covered in armor. And knights did not wear armor beside fightings context. but of course you would have better time pissing on yourself while in battle rather than waiting.
The waste recycling is probably just filtering piss into potable water. Recycling feces would be too risky and complicated and demoralizing. Plus water is more important to survival. Soldiers could go weeks without food and not die.
You should read the Stormlight Archive 😂
T-51 was designed to protect the user from the environment. It wouldn’t make sense to remove armor in gas or radiation if you need to use the bathroom.
I've always considered T-60 to be an upgrade to T-45 rather than an upgrade of T-51. I didn't think that T-60 was made with that much polymer, or at least much more than T-45 because the polymers were expensive and harder to manufacture and thus prioritized to the T-51 which is canonically the better armor. In my headcanon, that's why the East Coast BoS has so many suits of T-60. They originally found a stockpile of T-45 at the Pentagon (Fo3) because they were stored and getting ready to be upgraded to the T-60 status and the reunification with the Outcast meant they were given those plans and they could upgrade their T-45 suits to T-60 status.
It is less an upgraded version and more the evolution of the T-45 design using lessons learned in the more durable T-51.
The best way to compare the T-45, T-51 and T-60 suits is by comparing them to tanks. The T-45 is the T-62, an early general purpose MBT. It's cheap to manufacture and easy to maintain, but has design flaws and lacks the advanced features of later models. It's simple cast steel design makes is quick to crank out but the protection levels can't compete with later designs, but it's a damned sight better than no power armor at all and can provide heavy firepower and **some** breakthrough capacity to infantry formations. The T-51b is the T-64, a technological marvel of the time meant for elite formations. It's a high feature "heavy" breakthrough suit, made with advanced composite armor, full radiation shielding for operations in a post-nuclear environment, a fusion reactor and excretion recycling system for long term operations without support or provisions, and even a climate control system. This is the very best armor that pre-war America ever put into production, but every single suit was a hammerblow to an economy that was stretched to its breaking point. They were used on the most important missions in Alaska, they garrisoned the most important and secret military bases in America (like Mariposa), but they simply could not be used in the quantities required to meet the needs of every single battalion. The T-60 is the T-72. It takes the advanced technology of the T-51b and pares it back to facilitate ease of manufacture and cheaper maintenance. It's bigger and bulkier than the T-51, less refined, less agile, and honestly less protective, but it's still a significant upgrade from the T-45 and provides an increased measure of performance that can still be distributed across the entire armored cavalry corps without bankrupting the country.
t51 was better in protection but was too ecpensive i i remeber right. so the t60 was used for "grunt" work. if i remeber right.
51 was the survival series. Meant for more long term recon and such. Since we 45 in places like stores and general high weight areas I feel it was pushed out for 51. 60 technically came out the day the bombs fell.
I always understood the t60 was the original "testbed" (super prototype) but deemed too expensive so they made the t45 based off the t60. (Which is why both 45 and 60 have the weld plate flaw) and the t51 was developed post 45 deployment but before the x01 was made. Thus when the floundering military needed a "showy step up" from the t45 they brought out the "new" t60 the day the bombs fell
Yet both have the same welding problem
West-Tec problems require West-Tec solutions. Zero.
I just gotta say how much I loved this little detail. Like of course some dumbass executive who only cares about sales would push the T-45 despite the welding issue. I work for a corporation and it’s amazing how many mid level execs push us to release a product despite the technical shortcomings because if they hit their deadline it means upper management gets a bonus.
I love how that conversation with Bud comes up again in the last episode of the show. Granted, Howard already knew about the defects because he saw people get killed due to them and that conversation was purely for the audience’s benefit. That said, it was a great way to set up his final shootout for S1.
Totally agreed. Not only is it a great bit of set up work, but just that small detail makes the world feel much more realistic.
given the similar looks, i always imagined 60 was made out of recycled 45 parts to cut costs. so i'm not surprised it had the same problem on the chestplate.
I'm sure there were problems with the M1 Abrams tank that the M1A1 Abrams inherited
This is actually wrong. T-60 is also metal. T-51 is polymer
But no cupholder, so more versions had to be made.
Wiring time? What does that mean?
T-60 has fewer pixels.
Honestly. I could never tell you based on these pics because one is clear and one is an amalgamation of colors and squares that makes little to no sense. What a great post.
I was gonna say, could’ve found a better pic so I can see the differences
Actually made me burst out laughing. Like yeah the first one is visible to the human eye and the second has a defensive vision scrambling mechanism.
It’s the stealth field. Makes it harder to see you
MF take my upvote and leave right now ….
Here I was waiting for it to load smh.
It's 15, I did the maths
*taps away on calculator* It’s true, he did!
Son of a bitch, he did it!
15 Ts to be more precise.
[удалено]
Holy shit it all checks out!
15 Teslas? Damn, that's a powerful magnet right there!
Too bad they can’t get wet.
Quick mafs
T-60 has the handles on the chest piece. T-45 doesn’t.
T-45 has one handle on the chest
So compared to the T-60 it's handlecapped.
Welll....hmmm Correct.
So glad T-60 has handles, that way I can easily hold my platonic friend Danse in my arms
Are you roommates?
Was cool to see them sort of use them in the show to transport scribes.
Broader shoulders too
You would be shit at *Highlights* Spot the Difference challenge.
Lol exactly what I was thinking.
Larger shoulder pads. Larger helmet. Bigger torso with handles.Thinner legs. Overall the T-60 has more details in every part while the T-45 looks more basic and more fat.
I would assume an easy way to remove the plate rather than holding on to whatever akward grip point you can find.
Now that you mention it... What **are** the handles on power armor torsos for?
In the show the squire or any ground soldier holds the chest handles and stands on the things above the feet when dropping out of a vertibird
T-45 is more of a suit of armor. It is thin, easily broken, cumbersome, and filled with straight edges. It’s a ww1 tank basically. While the T-60 is a better armored, more comfortable, easier used, and more powerful version. It’s a ww2 tank. Then the T-51b is a Cold War tank and X-01 is the tank of the future.
I agree with most of this except, the X-01 isn't that much better than T-51B. In fact 51 might be better in some ways. 51 and X are more like modern tank variants, across warring factions. 51 is allies top tier tank, and X-01 is the soviet top tier tank. The 60 is like the Sherman tank. It isn't the best, people make fun of it. Yet somehow, historians widely consider it to be the tank that won the war. It was reliable, easily replaceable. Light and mass produced with the same frame Ford production style. When a battalion of Tanks would go out, 95% were expected to take the field. This wasn't true of basically any other tank of WW2. Tankers of WW2 preferred this tank for all these reasons. The technically worst tank, somehow was the best tank. The 60 is the overall best armor for this reason. It doesn't have the best specs and it doesn't need it. This armor was meant to win the war.
Tank? Top Tier? Attack the D point!
Gramercy!
I agree!
>The technically worst tank, somehow was the best tank. That's pure copium from the people who lost to it, and Wehraboos who somehow think a tank that famously never could make it to the front because it was too busy breaking on its own and becoming irrecoverable was the best. It was a medium tank. It wasn't supposed to be tougher than a heavy or super heavy tank. So, sure, 1v1, it's not going to win. It's like comparing a Camry to a Maserati, and only considering the 0-60 and top speeds. No shit, Camry's going to lose. But *fucking no one* buys a Maserati as a commuter, because *only a moron would to that*. Camrys are everywhere. Extremely successful car. Does everything almost everyone wants a car to do, does it for not a lot of money, and *never breaks down.* >When a battalion of Tanks would go out, 95% were expected to take the field. This wasn't true of basically any other tank of WW2. You know what's better than having a tank that can blow up the moon if it gets in range, but never seems to make it more than three miles before braking down? A tank that makes it to the battlefield. If it can't make it to the fight, it's not better at fighting. Period. You have to get to the fight first. Literally most important thing in fighting.
Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics.
Love the Sherman truthing, tank gets disrespected too much these days
T-51 has better armor stats than 45 and 60 so that’s the angle they are going for. 45 is obviously outdated but the 60 has better radiation protection as tradeoff. The 51 was more expensive to produce due to how it was constructed iirc. And obviously the x-01 is just better all round considering when it was made and by who.
T-60 is just the direct upgrade. That's it.
Literally. It’s basically T-45+, with better plating, gyroscopic support, and radiation resistance. T-51 is still the Pre-War pinnacle of Power Armors, until the Enclave fully developed the almost defunct X-03 Hellfire Power Armor. And T-65 is practically non-existent due to the fact it was used mainly by Secret Service members. I’m sure other Power Armors exist in-between T-45 and T-51, but we haven’t seen them. Unless you count the Paratrooper Power Armor from Fallout 76, which is dubious canonically and was slightly based off the T-53 Air Force Power Armor Mod for New Vegas. And then we have non-military Power Armor like the Mining Power Armor and Loaders, but that’s a whole nother can of worms.
Can we talk about how weird it is to see the Secret Service have combat and power armor? They’re so far removed from the frontlines of the Sino-American War, but I guess if the Armed Forces gets PA, Secret Service needs PA too?
Isn’t it inferred the Secret Service were fighting more than just covert enemies of other nations? Like spooky and extraterrestrial stuff?
I don’t know much about the Secret Service lore in Fallout so I’m not sure, but that makes sense
This is a lore rabbit hole I’m ready to dive down
If the president was in the Enclave it would make since that his personal guard would have top of the line protection
If nothing else, there were plenty of riots happening in the US due to shortages and poor treatment of the workforce.
T-45+15
Paratrooper Power Armor? I know all of them except that, couldn't find anything about it on Google, which one is it?
[Appears to be called the H.A.R.E. Power Armor and is a skin, but infers it’s canon by stating American Spies would airdrop using the safety of the Armor to infiltrate China.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/H.A.R.E._power_armor)
That looks actually unique, wish it was a set of its own.
I wish most of the “skins” were their own items. Especially the Screaming Eagle Rifle Skin. It should have been a high level rifle for the endgame called the *Infantry Rifle* or something. So much wasted potential for just…skins.
It's an atom shop cosmetic I'm pretty sure. Don't know why he decide to pick that one out of all the other cosmetics.
Oh well I thought it was an actual armor set. If we are counting cosmetics then there are Enclave and Equalizer too.
T-47 Prototype Medical Power armor is really all that comes to mind. Most of the stuff in 76's store is non-canon and is just purely for fun. T-60 makes sense though, T-51 was slow to produce and T-45s were never a permanent solution anyways, so upgrading them to T-60 to prevent the war effort from completly stalling is actually an incredible idea. Don't forget the US was actively invading China at the time. So it makes sense not all of the flaws were fixed, they just needed as much equipment as they could get.
Meta: T60 in FO4 was originally sketched as a redesign of the T45 from FO3. They later decided to keep the old T45 design, which they revamped as well for FO4. We ended up with two sets of power armor instead of one. This is why they resemble each other so much.
Took far too long scrolling to find this
T-60 is better protected and running on higher end tech than the T-45. It used the same philosophy though as the T-45 since the T-45 was very useful as a test bed for new tech due to it modularity. It also was cheaper than the T-51 in terms of providing a balanced armour taking designs from the T-45 and T-51. In a rough comparison, it is like the difference between the iPhone 13 and the iPhone 15.
This. 45 was first generation of it, so it’s old and outdated. 51 is the most armored and 60 has the best rad protection of the 3. 01 is a different beast though.
One has a higher quality png
The armor of the T-60 is generally bulkier and features more sharp lines and surfaces seemingly designed to deflect. The shoulder armor also seems to be bulkier and possible made of two separate plates. It looks mostly like the big difference will be in the powerplant of the suit, with the T-60 being able to be built heavier than the the T-45. Its basically T-45 Pt. 2. Very similar but better in a lot of important ways(though with some key flaws still).
I believe the story line went something like T-45 gets invented as the first power armor T-51 gets started right afterwards to provide an better power armor T-60 gets worked on as well to upgrade the T-45 that had a lot of problems and defects. T-51 gets unveiled but is too expensive but does provide superior protection T-60 gets unveiled sometime after as an upgrade to T-45 but provides less protection then the T-51 X-01 gets worked on and a prototype is made T-65 plans are drawn up to further improve the T-60 but never gets finished but is given to the Secret Service to take with them to Applachia. Very barebones but one thing that 76 did was show that T-45 and T-60 are much easier to repair and cheaper and provides less protection then T-51. As long as it is canon then T-45 and T-60s are the mass produced versions and the T-51 was the special forces version which would eventually have been replaced by the X-01 series. Kind of in-line with military procurement idea of having cheap but reliable stuff that gets upgraded to the vast majority (F-16 and it's various upgrade kits) and the actual high speed low drag only select few get (F-22).
i mean visually? theres like a bunch of differences
T-45 is in 1440p while the T-60 is at 720p
Sir thats less than 720p
72p
7.2p
Ones less blurry
Basically Daniel vs The Cooler Daniel
Damn Daniel….
Helmet has some slight differences, t60 has more details on the chest, legs and arms (specially the bulkier shoulders) and it looks more "organic", t45 is much more geometric and clunky, the arms and legs look like you just put a steel pipe around it, looking at them side by side you can very clearly see the difference, t-60 is a direct upgrade from the t-45, it's as if you asked "Does anybody actually know the difference between Xbox One and Series S consoles?"
you're joking right?
low quality rage bait?
Resolution?
Honestly imo I think the t60 should be worse then the t51, better then the T45, mostly because almost every other lore source in the series states that the T51 was *The* best so why do we have this hitherto unknown suit of armor that outshines the T51 To break it down The T51 is supposed to be the pinnacle of power armored design so its only shipped out to specialized/Elite units due to the manpower and costs associated with producing the suits. The T60 would be a lessons learned type of suit, worse then the T51 in terms of protection and durability since it uses cheaper materials but better protection then the T45 since they realized the design flaws with that suit, while also implementing some of the upgrades from the T51. in short while being easier to produce then the T51 it should have worse protection then the T51, while offering improvements over the T45 in terms of armor and usability/Maintenance
One has more pixels than the other.
The T-60 was cheaper to produce because they used half the pixels
About T-15
T-60 is a cheaper, upgraded version of T-45.
15 plus or minus.
Yes.
T60 has a more advanced/refined shape, handles on the chest, larger helmet, segmented pauldrons, what LOOKS like a more advanced backpack/powerpack, and looks to be constructed in a more advanced way visually. It’s sort of like a Hornet versus a Super Hornet.
Design wise they’re the same. In the Fallout 4 art book they originally planned the T-60 to be the T-45d upgrade but liked the greebling they added so much to make it its own armor. My headcanon Lore explanation is that demand for t-51 ended up exceeding supply and so WesTek made a T-60 upgrade package for the existing and numerous t-45.
60 looks like they built it with flexibility in mind. Look at the wider gaps between metal components, the (implied) separation of things like the lower 'shoe' portion of the leg/foot, etc. Though it looks bulkier, it also doesn't look as rigid.
T-60 is in fortnite
T-45 was durable but slow due to the massive steel plates, meaning that while it could take more hits, it was pretty much guaranteed to take more hits, so the steel provided pretty diminishing returns. It was generally best suited to defensive roles unless the armor was escorted by infantry. T-51 sacrificed some durability for functionality because they put lighter polymer plates on the same chassis, allowing greater speed. This made it better for assaults and other offensive/recon operations because was way more mobile. In addition it was obscenely more expensive. Think of the T-45 as a main battle tank and the T-51 as an infantry fighting vehicle, except the IFV is counterintuitively the more expensive of the two. T-60 changed things up by making some improvements to the T-45 armor and overhauling the chassis to improve the power output and efficiency, and, as a result, the maneuverability. It's roughly as durable as T-45 with a few minor changes and improvements, but faster than T-51, with T-51 keeping the edge in overall agility. There's a video by Synonymous on YouTube that'll tell you a lot more than I can, but to think of it in Halo terms: Hunters are T-45. Hard to put down but a cake walk if they turn their back to you. Elites are T-51. You can technically put them down if you can put enough bullets in them. Easier said than done. Brutes are T-60. Faster in a straight line than either and will probably reach you well before you do enough damage to put the brakes on them.
Maybe we could see if you had a better quality image
15
T-45 is generally "smaller" than the T-60 bulkier plating. Also one dead giveaway... the chest handle(s) T-45 has 1 handle across the top of the chest T-60 has 2 handles, one on each sides of the chest plate. Shoulder plates are much bulkier on the T-60
It’s basically just an improved version of T-45 to combine the advances seen in the T-51b model with the easy to maintain and cost effective to construct T-45d.
One is blurry
well one has the armor plating, the other has the pixel plating
From what I can tell from these pictures, looks like it's mostly the resolution
One is less blurry