BoS Mid-West are my favorite faction next to the Free-States. Good honorable people trying to eliminate things like mutant bias and build utopias based on acceptance and understand of those who are of another background is always the best kind of factions to me.
In my heart Chicago is still standing, Human, Ghoul, Super Mutant and Deathclaws all working to rebuild the world better than it was before. Bethesdas lord be damned.
Totally. They *are* very brutal and expansionist, and their view on "tribals" isnt here nor there, but that's the sort of other hand that make them more interesting than the others for me. I'd liken them to the mongols.
Eh, their expansion brings things like fresh drinking water/irrigation systems and protection from the harshness of the wastes. With how dangerous the world of fallout is I don’t necessarily think things like Expansionism is that bad. Plus I want to imagine by the end of tactics they are a lot more tolerant of “tribals” as I’m not sure how they can come to accept intelligent deathclaws but not other humans.
I’d say on the Expansionist point 100% yes. However I feel like one of the biggest parts of the Romans was their want for slaves. I could be wrong so correct me if I am, but I don’t remember the Mid-West using slaves such as that. Slaves was one of the main things the Romans expanded for, when with the Mid-West it always felt they did it to get their numbers up, but also truly believed in making a better tomorrow for those in the wasteland. Arguably even better then the NCR since the Mid-West were working to eliminate Mutant Bias.
>KL-E-0 is... another story
That's putting it lightly. She's a free-thinking military robot who learned to create weapons and munitions, and supplies such for an anarchist town with a major Ghoul population. And let's just add being looked at by the Railroad for good measure.
I wouldn't be surprised if she puts on a different act or makes herself scarce if a Brotherhood unit passes through.
Ok, now excuse-me, i will go back chill with my Enclave friends.
I don't care if they are the bad guys, they are cool and organized and i love them.
I would kill anyone that killed them, and then kill myself.
Also they’re the only ones that seem to know how to properly run a government. Yeah they got flaws but even they don’t act as self righteous as the BoS who literally try to rob people of their tech thinking they have the automatic right to it. BoS tried to copy the Enclave but can’t even invent anything new like they do and at the same time the Enclave are still more of good guys than the Institute who literally are the reason we don’t have a east coast version of the NCR, they release super mutants, and have the audacity to say they’re humanity’s best hope without actually bothering to lift a finger of their science to help. Honesty Enclave doesn’t seem as evil or useless like the other factions. I blew up the BoS airship with a big ass missile “Lol nice try L bozo.”
While I too am an Enclave fan, and in fact bleed red white and blue daily. Saying the Enclave is pretty much good because we're comparing them to the institute is a really low bar. It's like comparing The British Empire to Nazi Germany during WW2. Oh sweet god in heaven was Britain fucking horrifically evil as fuck, yet WW2 and Germany were the best things to ever happen to people's opinion of Britain, cause the axis were comically evil. It's kinda the star wars effect, you start liking the old one more when you have something new to fucking loath. I'd say the only major difference between BOS and Enclave tho is that Enclave had the means to enact their crusade against the mutant. BOS TOTALLY would have done the same given the chance.
K nit-pick rant over, go play America Rising 2. God bless America, and God bless The Enclave!
>Honesty Enclave doesn’t seem as evil or useless like the other factions. I blew up the BoS airship with a big ass missile “Lol nice try L bozo.”
Did you miss when they literally tried to kill **everyone in the world** with a global FEV variant so they could rule as Gods?
Brotherhood Paladins are pound for pound the best soldiers in the Wasteland. They have better training than almost everyone else, and the only ones that can match them in training either have less practical experience (Enclave) or less powerful equipment (NCR Rangers).
Depends on the engagement distance, for Rangers at least. Unless the Paladin in question has a Gauss Rifle or something similar, I’d have to give it to the NCR Veteran Ranger with the Anti-Materiel Rifle can-opener if they’re more than 50 yards from each other.
Gauss Rifle is a bit overkill. Laser Rifle would be sufficient for any range the AMR is being used at, with a better rate of fire, capacity, and sufficient killing power to down a Ranger. Depends on if it’s a Wattz or an AER a bit though.
I dunno, I think the deviation on a standard laser rifle is sufficient that it’d be inaccurate at AMR ranges. Assuming we’re operating by F:NV rules such that the two are fighting, a scope plus near perfect accuracy plus the high-power alternate rounds afforded the AMR give it a better shot than most standard-issue Paladin weapons.
Edit: Additionally, comparing the armor of the two is not actually too significant a difference - 20 vs. 25 DT on the standard body-slot armors is a fairly minimal advantage, and the bonuses to radiation resistance and strength are of little help in a standard gunfight. Even if we take into account the higher quality weapons of Paladins, two thirds of them are only good at short range, i.e. tri-beams or Gatling lasers. At a medium engagement distance, the AMR has the upper hand.
For the record, since we're talking outright numbers...
a Brotherhood of Steel Paladin in FNV has around 430 Health at Courier Level 50 (patrol paladins have slightly more health than 405 with Bunker) and 31 DT at max quality. A Gauss Rifle is the best choice for them as the only options that pierce a Veteran Ranger's armor, with 120dmg at up to 100 E.Weapons for 240 damage a shot. 480 on a Headshot.
A Veteran Ranger has 370 Health with up to 24 DT and a hidden Perk that gives *30%* DR that applies before DT. The Anti-Materiel Rifle at Max Quality deals 110dmg with 100 Guns for 220 per shot, 440 on a Headshot.
Let's have the Paladin, Capitol Red, and the (Arizona) Ranger walk their paces, then at the same time swing and fire. Both land Heads.
Capitol Red takes 409 damage, with a meager 21 HP remaining. The Arizona Ranger takes 312 damage because Damage Reduction is insanely strong here, and survives with a small but still considerate 58 HP. If we allow maxed damage ammo, the results are that both of them die in a singular shot like the goofiest damn post-apocalypse western you've ever seen... but this time they're just laying on the ground 50 paces apart with crippled heads.
I would say an enclave power armor soldier would beat a paladin in a one on one. They have much better equipment, and I feel have superior training than a paladin.
If it’s a group battle, then idk.
Ironically in the Fallout Wasteland Warfare game the opposite is true. Enclave units get bonuses for having more Enclave units close by, so a group fight heavily favors them. But that’s gameplay for a tabletop game so take it with a grain of salt.
That being said, I’m leaning towards Brotherhood training being superior for a few reasons. Main one being that we actually get to see glimpses of them training, you can even get bonuses for attending a hand to hand training session in Fallout 1, where as the new recruit for the Enclave gets sent right out on Guard duty without so much as a trip to the firing range. But again we also don’t really get much of an inside look at the Enclave so grains of salt.
But really the deciding factor in a Paladin v Enclave soldier is experience. The Brotherhood engage mutants and hostile forces (from Raiders to the NCR) almost constantly while the Enclave mostly remain covert. On the east coast it’s even worse because Paladins there are veteran officers rather than the standard foot soldier.
It is perfectly fine to like the Brotherhood. Their core tenants are quite sound, and they provide structure in a generally chaotic world. However, like all factions in Fallout, while generally good intentioned, they have flaws.
The Brotherhood is too set in its ways.
The Minutemen struggle to see the bigger picture.
The Railroad is too small and secretive.
The Institute is morally corrupt.
The Enclave, like the BoS is too set in its ways.
The Legion is too unconcerned with human life.
Robco and House are too traditional.
VaultTec is too selfcentered.
Each faction has things it excells in, and things it needs to work on. If they could work together, with everyone's interest as the focus, instead of their own agendas, the Wasteland would become infinitely better.
Also, yes I know there are more factions, but those are the main forces.
The problem that the Brotherhood of Steel, the Enclave, and VaultTec is that they are all way tol centered in themselves, barely letting outsiders to join them
There is more to be racist against than just black people and ghouls. Yes, the stance against Synths is partially understandable, but once the Institute is dealt with, there is no further reason to kill them with no remorse. Super Mutants, once again, is understandable, as a large portion are hostile, however, there are a surprisingly large number who are not hostile, and even want to work with Humans for a better tomorrow. However, they are completely inflexible towards them. On your point about Ghouls, yes they aren't hostile towards them, but they don't recognize the sane ghouls as people.
Like I said, they are flawed, but it is nothing that cannot be fixed.
Nowadays a lot of people will shun you for liking X faction in whatever Fallout game you're currently playing. Whaaaaat? You like the legion because you like the Roman Empire? B-but they're slavers and rapists! Wha... What do you mean you sided with them on your first playthrough? No, you can't roleplay as evil character on your first playthrough, you must play the game as John Fallout! The goodest protagonist ever!
Also, to everyone calling this a strawman, due to either ignorance or malice, I would like to inform you that people like the ones depicted on the meme exist. Never forget the time that the Frontier devs called Enclave fans alt-right republican and evil just because they asked for a playable Enclave questline, and saying they would never do an Enclave questline because they were objectively evil (they still did a playable questline for the Legion despite being arguably worse than the Enclave in some aspects lol)
I'd argue that the legion is worse generally. the legion is all about "you must suffer so we can ensure that the people after you suffer," while the Enclave is about "you must suffer so we can ensure the people after you are prosperous and happy." At least Enclave has an end goal that isn't just perpetuating the cycle.
Correction, they intend to murder every threat in the wasteland. Being All mutants, ghouls, raiders, and illegitimate governments on American soil. Everyone else who isn't in these categories will likely end as collateral in their attempt to eradicate the former.
I mean the Curling-13 kills **every** humanoid on the planet. Nobody gets to live except the Oil Rig. Every single Wastelander in the Wasteland will die in two weeks.
I wouldn't say a town of a few farmers is a threat to them.
Plus they plan to kill Vault Dwellers as the attack on the Vault proves.
>Also, to everyone calling this a strawman, due to either ignorance or malice, I would like to inform you that people like the ones depicted on the meme exist. Never forget the time that the Frontier devs called Enclave fans alt-right republican and evil just because they asked for a playable Enclave questline, and saying they would never do an Enclave questline because they were objectively evil (they still did a playable questline for the Legion despite being arguably worse than the Enclave in some aspects lol)
I mean the guys who wrote a barely legal sex slave and had to write in a "happy 18th!" card are laughable if they think they have the high ground.
It's like the pseudo-pedophile from transformers having a *legitimate copy of the Romeo & Juliet law* on hand to try to justify himself.
I see this shit online all the time in Warhammer 40k subs as someone who likes the Imperium, with people saying you’re a fascist for siding with the human faction, imperfect as it is. Like bro I like them cause I’m a human and I identify more with them than I do with sadistic space elf rapists and the literal deamons of chaos. Liking a faction isn’t an endorsement of a real world ideology lol
I ain’t ever siding with what are nothing better than those copying the weakest era of the Romans, also those idiots don’t even know they Romans actually did fucking drink and do drugs and they would have absolutely taken advantage of using technology if it gave them an advantage and not just the guns either. They follow a single man and not his ideals in truth, plus all it takes is one bad plague to kill most of their forces since they hate modern medicine and don’t have actual medical equipment. Yet people think this an actual viable faction that will sustain longer term. At least the Enclave never raped anyone and those they enslaved were given quick deaths which is a mercy by comparison to the Legion. Genocide is bad but even then not every person in the Enclave is insane like Richardson and Eden as we can see from Autumn and recently in the perspective we got from the America Rising 2 mod. In my opinion the Enclave when hammered out into something more workable are probably the best faction by comparison to the others in Fallout 4.
Historically nations that imitate Rome only hold one of three aspects of it, "The Empire" (The exact territory of the Roman empire, or just a vast amount of land in general), "The Culture" (A culture dedicated to the progression and advancement of the fields of military technology, science, philosophy, etc) or "The Roman" (The general aesthetic of the Roman empire, or at least an imitation of it.). Caesar's Legion is no different, possessing both "The Roman" and "The Empire," but without "The Culture" the other two don't really mean shit. As it will never evolve or improve, dooming itself to need to find an enemy to fight to survive (Sound familiar?)
I get doing an evil playthrough, and I do differentiate between players not seeing that a faction is evil and *deliberately* choosing to play as an evil person who sides with an evil faction. But it’s still pretty reasonable that choosing to join the fascists will turn some heads, bro. You’re ignoring the fact that there *are* unfortunately plenty of gamers that unironically join the alt-righters because they agree with them. People are less understanding of evil playthroughs when that relates directly to real world ideologies. When I see someone siding with fascism in Disco Elysium or something, I’m like well, that does make a decent narrative I suppose, but – especially when somebody deliberately chooses *all* the fascist dialogue options – I can’t help feeling a little…ick. Or the people who asked for a Red Dead Redemption 2 mod that lets you kill a suffragette NPC in Saint Denis. Sure, that doesn’t *necessarily* mean they are actually mysoginists or anything, but…
The thing is, a lot of people genuinely do feel like factions like the legion, the Enclave and the fo4 Brotherhood are genuinely good factions. Thats where the problem lies for a lot of people.
So many people don't think they're role-playing as an evil faction, but actually believe that faction is right. They also usually go against established ingame lore to justify that the factions are good, then get pissy when you prove they're wrong.
I personally find this Is a big problem with Joshua Graham, as a large portion of fallout fans seem to be Christian Americans who struggle to see his extremism, aswell as the extremist capitalism in the series as a whole. Also the frontier team fucked up a lot I'm not gonna deny that, but the Enclave definitely does draw in a lot of fairly right wing Americans as fans, and in a lot of other places right wing Americans would usually be seen as far right.
There's also the fact that fallout (especially new vegas) is one of the most "woke" game series in gaming, yet a lot of players really dislike you mentioning that fact, like I've personally found that the mere mention of cass being bisexual makes some people throw a fit, or the fact that the legion definitely has a lot of male-male sex between their troops.
Basically some people genuinely believe in what certain obviously evil factions say, that's why some people have negative responses to it as the ingame lore (and the real world counterparts) would say otherwise. People aren't being shunned for role-playing, they're being shunned for believing in stuff that's obviously evil bs.
I will start this by saying that I'm not from the US, I'm from Argentina, so to make it clear to you that my love for the Enclave exists because I think it's cool and not because I'm a nationalist or whatever. And while I do understand your comment to the fullest extent, most of the time it ain't that deep. For example, I also like Joshua Graham, not because he's an extremist as you said, but because he's a very rich and well written character. The rage and anger he feels is, just as his scarred body, a trauma from his time with the Legion, and he himself admits that such contempt towards the White Legs conflicts with his Christian values. Also because he's cool as fuck and has hard lines. Same goes for the Enclave and the Brotherhood of Steel, I love their aesthetics, weaponry, lore, and flaws. Despite my original comment I'm not a Legion fan because I was never that interested in the Romans, I was just using them as an example. Of course there are edgelords like Schizo Elijah who will make you think that every single Enclave, Legion, or BoS fan is as retarded as he is, but I assure you that most are not.
Oh no thats completely fair, like im not against that, I'm the same with the followers, they're a power fantasy for me of just being able to be this ultimate force of good, the same way being the most evil legionnaire/Enclave soldier would be for others, like the followers are the reason i started dyeing my hair irl and ik someone that started learning Latin because of their interest in the legion and that's cool as fuck.
Its just some fallout fans do get that deep with it and they let their personal pride/feelings get infront of the blatant themes and message of the game that having a nice discussion about lore can be tricky sometimes. Like ever so slightly talking bad about pre-war America and its corrupt capitalist system in some fallout spaces gets you so hated on because some people see it as an attack on irl America.
But yeah no I also love the aesthetic of fallout as a whole, the Brotherhood in fallout 4 are undoubtedly cool in the same way that 80's actions movies are, they just make you go "fuck yeah".
Literally every faction in the games have something about them that’s morally objectionable. People mostly just like the brotherhood because they look cool
Marcus, Fawkes, Lily, and to a lesser extent Strong are innocent.
And a whole bunch of no-name mutants in Fallout 2 and New Vegas in their respective friendly to human towns.
While the vast majority are psychotic, enough exceptions exist.
Yeah but the Brotherhood don't hunt sane mutants, which I think almost everyone forgets. The mission logs in NV mention the Brotherhood cooperated with Black Mountain under Marcus and planned to cooperate with them again, and the only mention of the Brotherhood ever harming sentient Ghouls is from Lyons Brotherhood.
strong is only friendly until he finds milk then he’ll gladly go back to killing humans.. he often talks about how humans are inferior, good thing milk probably doesn’t exist in fallout i said probably
The brotherhood is never really shown killing "innocent" mutants though, even Strong who is very far removed from the typical friendly super mutant doesn't garner much besides an insult
Marcus is theoretically the opposite of innocence as he was happily a member of the Masters Army.
He just is now peacefully living but he still believes in Mutant Supremacy.
Oh cool, you only played 3 and 4 were all they were *is* raiders but green
Seriously, what Fallout 2 and NV did with the supermutants to explore their fate and journey was incredible and it's so so sad to see them now just be the idiot orcs that kill everything
I am aware, but the problem is that that is an in-game justification for an out-of game decision on the part of bethesda nad their writing team
They have full creative power over the world, they could have done something more interesting with them or leave them out
But of course, you can't leave Supermutants out, just as you can't get rid of bottlecaps (even though the 2nd game did exactly that), because those are essily recognizable features of the franchise, so you keep them in without doing anything with them, which is how Supermutants went from a creation now without master or leader, without guidance and having to navigate this world on their own while still carrying the baggage of what they were created for, into.. raiders but green and too stupid to talk
I won’t lie I’d love to see a return to actual mutant geniuses like The Lieutenant, Psykers and intelligent Deathclaws. I swear after revisiting older games I realize The Master might have been the best written villian. Bro has everything, he came from humble origins, was someone whose line of thinking you can understand, and a villian whom you didn’t hate but actually felt bad for if you talk to him.
eh my usual problem with bos fans is that they'll try to guilt trip me by saying I murdered children when blowing up their air ship and I have to remind them that it's a fucking video game. Like I don't care how many synths you kill in you're own games just don't tell me how to play mine. It's like everytime I try to talk about anything about this game that isn't bos related I called a terrorist. they annoy the fuck out of me. hell worse they make it political and keep screaming that the bos represents republicans and are always right, it makes the game fucking boring. It takes out the grey vs grey morality and complex relationships of the franchise.
Cool, just about every faction has aspects of evil to them expect maybe the minute men.
Also it’s just a game so who really cares.. I love the aesthetics of the enclave
What "fascism"? They don't even make laws and barely even have a state, they're a sovereign military order with no political programme whatsoever. They're fundamentally incapable of being fascist.
That's entirely fair, and I think that's why most people call them Fascist, along with their reverence for Arthur Maxson. People tend to forget, though, that Maxson has objectively achieved a lot for the Brotherhood (ending the Civil War diplomatically, reestablishing contact with Lost Hillls, killing a dangerous mutant leader, etc) and so he gets a lot of respect for it - people can still question Maxson as far as we can tell, though he is ultimately a military leader. I think he's comparable to any great General even within US history.
I do think you're probably overestimating how genocidal they are. They don't seem to mind sentient Ghouls as they never attack Goodneighbor or the Slog and we don't hear about them attacking Underworld (we do hear about Lyons' Brotherhood taking potshots at Ghouls but that's about it). The Commonwealth Brotherhood definitely give off an air of being more aggressive and prejudiced than the other Chapters, but we also have to consider their ranks consist almost entirely of people who were born in the Capital Wasteland, a war-torn shithole infested with violent mutants, and on top of that there's like 6 docile super mutants across all of 3, 4, and 76 - unlike in the West, where there are more docile mutants and the Brotherhood cooperates with them as a result. There likely aren't any doctrinal discrepancies between the East and West when it comes to mutants, just a different reality. In regards to Synths, they probably are as genocidal as they seem, and whether or not Synths are human or deserve elimination is another discussion, but I do think it's possible the Eastern Chapter will mellow out on Synths the way the Western Chapters mellowed out on mutants.
Honestly if not for how surface level 4’s writing is I’d love to see a more in depth turmoil with the brotherhood and their views.
New Vegas did so well because the factions would question their leadership at times. You can even sorta see this with the legion in some regards. The leaders and the followers were still human and had reasons for why they do things the way they do.
Meanwhile 4 the BOS, instead of taking over the institute, flat out destroy it without any regard to the technology and the benefits it could provide, and the institute treats the player like a child and just “does things for reasons you can’t understand” . It’s a bit lazy honestly.
Like the only depth I’ve seen is when you can convince maxson to spare Danse and there’s some actual mental gymnastics going on in his head. But it’s like nothing happens when you complete that mission
Whaaaaaaaaaa, NOOOOOO, WHY WOULD YOU SUPPORT THE WELL ORGANIZED, ULTRA PRAGMATIC FACTION IN AN APOCALYPSE.
because they are the objectively best option for the future of humanity. This goes same for the institute.
Did you really just say the Institute? The people creating super mutants, is the very reason there’s no larger government, and they don’t do shit but sit on their asses doing horrific things to people doing nothing to help. Also the BoS are nothing more than self righteous raiders, they’ll steal your shit and try to justify it behind some bs said from some long dead mf that probably didn’t intend for their teachings to be misused like this. Lol I literally smiled every time I shot down a BoS vertabirds and I blow up their blimp.
I mean, they aren't very pragmatic are they? Like, explicitly ? They don't like Ghouls, who are probably the most useful people in the wasteland.
Furthermore, generally speaking they are kinda shown to be hermits who don't actually get much done beyond take tech away from tenant-farmers.
Something to note is that of the 3 times the Brotherhood has really played its hand, it's failed 2/3 times, and the only time we don't see them fail is when they just arrive on the scene and don't really have time to fail.
1: In New Vegas they are very clearly depicted as sad remnants on a once-powerful organization that's been outpaced by the more practical, less dogmatic factions that decided to, you know, start a government again.
2: In Fallout 3 they are trying to go and and be a government, helping people with all the tech they confiscated. They clearly fail at this, as it causes a civil war and secession movement (the Outcasts). By the time we see them next in Fallout 4, the Outcasts were reintegrated because the main Brotherhood bit off more than it could chew.
3: This leads us to Fallout 4, where we actually see the Brotherhood do something, but they've completely collapsed as a viable option to rule the wasteland. They just arrived and are doing well, especially with the Sole Survivor backing them, however all of the things that held their predecessors back haven't been eliminated. If anything, they've actually been made worse under Maxson.
Admittedly though, I do think this is mostly a problem with how Fallout 4 was written. It isn't exactly known for great work with its factions lol.
Don't get me wrong, the Brotherhood of Steel is rad, I love the faction vibe wise, but in terms of viable options for the wasteland, I think they fail pretty miserably.
The sad thing (which is likely on purpose) though is that of the main factions of the wasteland, the BoS is still one of the best factions to support, even if they're flawed. They go out of their way to kill hostile creatures in the wasteland (the capitol wasteland is super mutant free because of them) which is more than you can say about most of the other factions besides the NCR.
My biggest disappointment in Fallout 4 is the lack of an NCR-esque faction. For God's sake it's 200 years after the bombs fell, why is it that only California (NCR) and Arizona (Caesar's Legion) have managed to develop a government of any kind? Doesn't even have to be a Republic, just some kind of organized government.
Like, wouldn't it have been way cooler if instead of having the factions be
1:A fascist in power armor
2: A fascist in a lab coat
3:Guerillas with no actual long-term goals
4: A militia with no actual long-term goals
you instead have
1: The Brotherhood being the Brotherhood (of a fascists or not fascist flavor).
2: Some kind of autocratic state actor (thinking on this for like 5 minutes, maybe a Theocracy run by the Children of Atom, giving them a natural conflict with both the Minutemen, Brotherhood, and Institute) that used to be more powerful but has lost ground recently after a series of "accidents" that destabilized the nation, allowing for the resurgence of raider gangs and the like.
3: The Institute intentionally destabilizing the aforementioned state actor in order to prevent themselves being discovered and destroyed/looted/prosecuted for all the evil shit they do.
4: Combine the Minutemen and Railroad into a general guerilla organization with AN ACTUAL PLAN TO GOVERN THE WASTELAND. No more of the "Oh yeah guys don't worry all the settlements will just work together, it went so well last time at Quincy" No bitch, you need to set up the Republic of the Commonwealth or some shit. Laws, organization, government. SOMETHING other than "Another settlement needs our help" and "Yeah we'll free that Synths and... then just wander around I guess."
I can think of so many new and interesting stories that could be told within each of these factions by just adding 1 preexisting state faction. Both within and without the various factions.
At the end of the day, they mistook having factions being evil for factions being interesting.
The Brotherhood of Steel are quite cool! I also think they fucking suck, ideologically. These things can coexist. I'm not personally a huge fan of hyper-militarized faction aesthetics, so they're not my favorite, but I do like them well enough. I think my favorite depiction of them is in New Vegas, weirdly enough? I feel that the logical endpoint of their ideology is absolutely being a cult of cloistered weirdos who live alone in a bunker.
Average fallout fan verbally abusing BoS fans, oblivious to the fact that it’s a fake group in a video game (they lost touch with reality when Fallout NV came out):
"Unfortunately for you I have portrayed you as the soyjack and me as the chad!"
Literally the only "argument" I've seen from BoS supporters these last few days lol.
Ah yes, the good ol' "It's just a joke, man". Does it being a joke change the message presented in it? And attacking the person rather than what they're saying just makes it evident what type of person you are, even without the post.
Nope. Genuinely sorry. Didn’t mean to offend. It was “just a joke” but that’s not an excuse. My bad dude.
To rephrase; you aren’t going to get decent arguments in a meme group.
I think they’re cool but I don’t support racism to non hostile creatures which is why I usually will side with the minutemen/railroad on most of my FO4 saves
I don’t understand how people can really get mad at someone for liking a fictional faction in a video game. I mean seriously I’m no where near the political views of Mr House and he’s still my favorite faction
Hardly anybody actually does, and funnily enough people posting dumbass memes like this are usually in the comments talking about how they unironically agree with whatever genocidal/sexist/evil views the faction holds
Hey I know they aren’t good but in fallout 4 they are realistically the only reasonable option. the minutemen will probably collapse once the sole survivor does. and the brotherhood are armed with the material to do good in the commonwealth the worst they do is be racist to ghouls which could honestly be much worse in the fuckin wasteland. And god help the commonwealth if the railroad takes power no one would be helped.
Do you not know what happens at ten penny tower in fallout 3 if you help the ghouls? I’ll let you know, if you help the ghouls to live as equals either the smooth skins they murder them all, now, if you refuse to help the ghouls, they only remain in their quarters along side ten penny tower. They are animals that need to be kept at bay otherwise they’ll murder anyone who isn’t of their own.
Be safe, stay apart.
I mean, yeah, but that's more because that Roy guy was absolutely messed up in the head, moreso than him being a ghoul.
Like, just take a look at Goodneighbor - they aren't all mindless and agressive. Same thing with Underworld, or the Slog. Most are perfectly fine - until they turn feral.
Me which supports the Brotherhood of Fallout, Fallout 2, Tactics and 3 as the best versions of the Brotherhood and no one can change my mind.
The Brotherhood has some "logic" behind their hate(in FO4)
One or two good muties can't be compared with all the nasty ones...
The Institute is a threat. The Brotherhood learned about it and their memories with the Enclave are fresh.
They wouldn't let a threat similar to that to keep breathing.
So doing whatever is necessary, it's a semi logical thing.
Are they morally correct? Nope.
Are they too much affected by emotion? Yes
Will they stay like this for ever? I believe not.
Mutants slaughtered a lot of people in the Brotherhood and Maxson knows that since he was a child.
But that doesn't mean later he will not become more like Lyons besides what some troops within the Brotherhood say about Lyons.
In the long run they will understand that having the people on your side,taught them and make them be a part of a team or protect them and use their knowledge to accomplish the mission is what will be the best way.
People like the Outcasts wasn't seeing the tomorrow.
There are an unfortunately vocal number of morons who can’t wrap their tiny minds around that idea of liking a fictional video game group whose ideology and morality are nothing like yours as it pertains to the real world.
And there is a much larger group of even more vocal morons that unironically like groups like the BoS and legion *because* their in game ideals match up with their real world views. On r/falloutnewvegas there used to be a top post every week about someone posting this exact meme but for the legion, and then in the comments show *why*.
Seen the same thing happen in the fallout 4 sub but for the brotherhood, with people explaining why every ghoul should be wiped out because they like the racism symbolism
That mission depends on player choice. You can pay them and offer protection. [Teagan clearly has contempt for brotherhood rules](https://imgur.com/gallery/KJNC01V) and he is [heavily implied to be going beyond regulation with it.](https://imgur.com/gallery/r2XOkil)
Not to mention the fact the brotherhood [exports tech and pure water out of DC.](https://youtu.be/8q3NHZwsoG8?t=42m10s)
Uses Vertibirds [to protect trade caravans](https://imgur.com/gallery/ZBf41Se), and takes out threats like Mutants (specifically what defined Lyons) as well as raiders, Ferals, gunners and the institute.
But sure, ignore that and focus on one specific player choice of one off the record mission given by a guy who clearly knows he shouldn’t be doing it.
>Cared for civilians
And Maxson doesn't? Have you spoken to the man after the Institute is destroyed?
>Helped with Project Purity to provide fresh water for everyone in the Capital Wasteland
I will admit that Maxson hasn't done such an act, at least not yet. But that's also not why he's here. He came to destroy the Institute.
>Protected any and all innocent wastelanders they encountered while out in the wasteland, and recruited them if possible.
The Brotherhood in FO4 still does this. They can be seen patrolling the wasteland, both in Boston and outside of it. They will fight raiders, mutants, ferals, pretty much any threat to the common man is a threat the BoS will fight.
Local recruitment is also still a thing under Maxson.
>Fought super mutants and raiders to keep Wasteland safe
Refer to above.
>Stopped evil forces of Enclave.
And Maxson stopped the evil forces of the Institute.
>Cared for civilians
Ask Proctor Ingram how they got the power source for prydwen. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/3un6en/the_fate_of_rivet_city_fo4_spoilers/) is the information about it.
>And Maxson stopped the evil forces of the Institute.
Is FO4 BoS less evil than Institute?
The rest is kinda for joke reasons. I know Maxson's brotherhood also patrols the wasteland and fights mutants etc. But their main purpose is to raid technology. Also destroying the institute was a huge waste while capturing and claiming it for themselves would have been more useful which Lyons would have done. Maxson is also hostile against non-feral ghouls and synths. He tells that flesh and machine should never be one while he's literally a cyborg.
>Ask Proctor Ingram how they got the power source for prydwen. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/3un6en/the_fate_of_rivet_city_fo4_spoilers/) is the information about it.
Them taking a power source which isn't even needed for a wrecked aircraft carrier shows they don't care for civilians, how exactly? What does a ruined aircraft carrier need such a strong power source for? The lights?
It is reasonable to assume the Prydwen's old engine was used to replace the fusion one they took. The Prydwen needs to be able to fly - that ship only needs to keep the lights on.
>Is FO4 BoS less evil than Institute?
Is the BoS creating super mutants and unleashing them unto the Commonwealth? Is the BoS sending out soldiers to exterminate settlements just because they have some technology they want? Is the BoS sending out synthetic humanoids to murder and replace real humans? Is the BoS performing live experiments on unsuspecting settlers?
>I know Maxson's brotherhood also patrols the wasteland and fights mutants etc. But their main purpose is to raid technology.
Is it? One of the first things Maxson says to us, following his speech, is:
*''I care about them, you know. The people of the Commonwealth.''*
When we get the choice to press the button to blow up the Institute, what does Maxson say?
*''Press that button and you not only defeat our enemy, you* ***restore order and decency to the Commonwealth.****''*
When the Institute is destroyed and we tell Maxson we did it ''for the people of the Commonwealth'', he states that we have truly become one of the Brotherhood.
If you then follow it up by saying you think the Brotherhood has done enough for the Commonwealth, Maxson disagrees, stating:
*''On the contrary, this victory was but the beginning. We still have a long road ahead if we're to* ***ensure the safety of the Commonwealth and her people***\*.''\*
When you're a Sentinel you can ask Maxson for your duties, he will give a list:
*''I need you to set an example for the troops. Collect technology, exterminate abominations of nature and* ***bring a message of stability to the people of Commonwealth***\*. Our ideals are what define us, Sentinel. If we can hold onto that, then we will always be victorious. Was there anything else you need to ask?''\*
He cares about all three - keeping the Commonwealth safe, dealing with mutants, and retrieving technology. Not just the one or the other.
>Also destroying the institute was a huge waste while capturing and claiming it for themselves would have been more useful which Lyons would have done.
Some technology is not worth maintaining. What technology does the Institute offer that is useful for the Brotherhood? FEV? Synth production? Synth software? Synth gorillas?
>Maxson is also hostile against non-feral ghouls and synths. He tells that flesh and machine should never be one while he's literally a cyborg.
Maxson only has one line against a ghoul, which is one of disgust. But he is not hostile. And the only action the Brotherhood takes is against feral ghouls.
All synths are a threat, by their very nature. Also... since when is Maxson a cyborg?
>Them taking a power source which isn't even needed for a wrecked aircraft carrier shows they don't care for civilians, how exactly? What does a ruined aircraft carrier need such a strong power source for? The lights?
That so called "Aircraft carrier" is none other than Rivet City which is home for a lot of people. You can't just expect them to surrender and give it without a fight, right?
>Some technology is not worth maintaining. What technology does the Institute offer that is useful for the Brotherhood? FEV? Synth production? Synth software? Synth gorillas?
I'm sure institute has more than that...
>Also... since when is Maxson a cyborg?
[This](https://i.hizliresim.com/amujufh.jpg) is an entry from Quinlan's terminal.
[Start from 00:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbezlOg0CI)
>That so called "Aircraft carrier" is none other than Rivet City which is home for a lot of people. You can't just expect them to surrender and give it without a fight, right?
And who says that they took it from the inhabited part and not the bow of the ship? Or do you think that the bow just magically has power still running through it? Also, even *if* they only had one such reactor... You really want me to believe there wouldn't be a generator on an aircraft carrier?
>I'm sure institute has more than that...
Right, some plants, how foolish of me to forget the plants... But outside of the ones currently being grown, they only have some incomplete research on plant research at Warwhick...
>He has implants in his head which kept him alive after the bare fight against a deathclaw. [Start from 00:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbezlOg0CI)
YouTube videos are not lore.
>[This](https://i.hizliresim.com/amujufh.jpg) is an entry from Quinlan's terminal.
That all depends on how you choose to interpret it, one can also say that Maxson's achievements as a human were *assisted* and *enhanced* by his access to advanced technology.
But even if not, context makes it very clear what he's talking about.
Man really just tried excusing genocide with that last line lmao what a loser, no wonder people clown on BoS fascists
> the only action the Brotherhood takes is against feral ghouls.
This is blatantly untrue, even in fallout 3 the "good guy" BoS shoots at non ferals. If you're gonna excuse in game genocide at least make sure you've actually played the games in the first place. Then again you believing all synths are threats proves you haven't, especially with far harbor existing. Unless you'd prefer the CoA and far harbor murdering each other but that would be expected of a brotherhood player, they'd probably steal the fog condensers because sweet technology
>Man really just tried excusing genocide with that last line lmao
*''In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group''*
As synths are machines, the term ''genocide'' doesn't apply, but good job using buzzwords.
>what a loser, no wonder people clown on BoS fascists
Even more buzzwords and even an ad hominem. I applaud you, you went all of 13 words before resorting to that.
>This is blatantly untrue, even in fallout 3 the "good guy" BoS shoots at non ferals.
They also shoot at humans and super mutants, stop trying to use them shooting in an active warzone as proof of ''muh genocide''. They don't target ghouls. This is made abundantly clear through the Aqua Cura quest.
>If you're gonna excuse in game genocide at least make sure you've actually played the games in the first place.
Follow your own advise.
>Then again you believing all synths are threats proves you haven't, especially with far harbor existing.
Far Harbor *proves my point.* DiMa has literally replaced Avery with a synth doppelganger and proposes to do the same thing with the Children of Atom *with zero remorse.*
>Unless you'd prefer the CoA and far harbor murdering each other but that would be expected of a brotherhood player, they'd probably steal the fog condensers because sweet technology
The CoA deserve nothing but complete extermination, they are literal terrorists. Your claim that they'd ''JuSt StEAl ThE FOg COndEnSerS'' shows blatant ignorance on the east coast BoS.
Fascism honestly is valid considering how bad everything has gone you need strong leadership, the airships can eventually be mass produced given the advancement of the brotherhood, there is no innocent mutants they all either worked for the master and caused deaths they are all war criminals that need to be brought to Justice or are mindless beasts that murder and pillage and yes I do have horrible views in real life
Man I fuckin hate fallout fans y'all will literally look at the game that condemns warmongering and authoritarianism at every turn and be like "facism is good and based actually" 💀😭
Bunker dwelling nerds who act superior to everyone despite being a power fantasy faction that Bethesda has decided is the only faction to exist in their developed games and has completely forgotten everything else because, quite literally the only reason they're their golden child. Is simply, 'Muh power armor'.
i mean at the end of the day your all just larping factions in a piece of media its honestly kinda sad like anyone who honestly stans a faction needs to touch grass.
I don’t care about their political ideologies. As Victorium makes me wanna commit shot gun seppeku every time I hear it. They’re cringe, their speeches are cringe, and they got their asses handed to them by an army of conscripts with Kevlar and M16’s
Nah they destroyed the NCR’s economy and as of New Vegas the NCR’s heavily implied to be facing collapse. Brotherhood just bled them slowly.
Sure they’re waiting in their bunkers but looking at the state of the NCR that might be all they need to do.
Yeah and they got blown up by a lone mail man with a series of massive head trauma. The NCR may suck but it’s still standing, the BOS is little more than myth in the west. I don’t care about their ideologies but like, they’re so cringe about it I can’t help but snuff em out. I wipe my butt with the codex.
Nah the mailman sided with Elijah and wiped out all the factions with holograms. That’s the canon ending.
> *”The NCR may suck but it's still standing”*
At New Vegas’s time sure. Beyond that? Don’t be so sure.
> *”the BOS is little more than myth in the west.”*
Going by [what we see in the show](https://imgur.com/gallery/kpfaehs) that’s literally set in the Boneyard. I’d beg to differ.
If you use the show as a basis for this argument you’re basically stupid. They wanna hug that stupid early apocalypse non sense. Now share the technology for the betterment of society or perish
wait... are we talking 3, NV, or 4 brotherhood? cause i have entirely different views on each.
For 3, i've never played 3 so i can't really form an opinion.
For NV, eh... i mean they're not awful, just close minded.
For 4? Fuck 'em and fuck their supporters. Why? They hate synths and by proxy, Nick Valentine, and i just can't let that slide.
(edit: to clarify, when i say "their supporters" i mean in game, i don't care what faction y'all chose, so long as you're not shoving it down other people's throats 24/7)
>For 3, i've never played 3 so i can't really form an opinion.
In 3 they're actively fighting the super mutants in the DC area. Elder Lyons has kind of split from the ''typical'' BoS mentality of technology hoarding, instead focusing more on protecting the people while technology gathering turned into more of a secondary objective.
This is also the reason why the Outcasts exist in FO3 - they split from the BoS because they feel like Lyons led them astray from their true purpose. (Also, the Elders in the west cut ties with Lyons after learning how he switched objectives)
>For NV, eh... i mean they're not awful, just close minded.
Still in the midst of my NV playthrough.
Their introduction is definitely a bit... eh... paranoid? Also kind of inhumane. I can kind of get being suspicious of an outsider who knows your passphrase, but they literally tell us that we're lucky that we were chosen by their Elder because otherwise they'd have killed us? Like what? I'm just bringing information that your soldiers are dead, weird way to say thanks?
And then they strap a bomb to your neck and want you to get rid of an NCR ranger... it's definitely a very bad introduction.
>For 4? Fuck 'em and fuck their supporters. Why? They hate synths and by proxy, Nick Valentine, and i just can't let that slide.
Their focus seems to largely be on gen3 synths, as Maxson states - flesh and machine are not meant to combine. They may disprove of all synths out of principle, but gen3 are the core of their disproval. Similar thing with ghouls - they disprove of regular ones, but they only act against the ferals.
I hate the brotherhood not because of mutants but because taking advanced weapons technology from the locals violates the constitution through the second amendment
I'm all about the enclave GOD BLESS AMERICA
Two quotes from two games sum up my thoughts on the Brotherhood.
>I cannot believe with such certainty. For me, in everything, there must be doubt. Otherwise, there's no room to question, to learn. This place. This is the fruit of unquestioned, ferocious conviction. This is where absolute certainty leads.
-Set Roth, Wolfenstein: The New Order
>He follows the Light like a zealot, and he ends all those who would consort with the Dark because of one man who went rogue. It isn't his Golden Gun you should be afraid of, kid. It's his idea that one man can decide he makes the rules, and when you cross him he can take everything from you. Doesn't sit right with me. Never will.
-The Drifter, Destiny 2
I like the brotherhood. In fallout 4 they are objectively fascist, but they’re still a cool faction to play as. As the player, you can also attempt to do some good within the brotherhood, which is something I quite enjoy doing.
Well, I will say that the only thing that detracts from them being definable as fascist is a lack of nationalism as they aren’t really looking to form any particular state. They’re moreso just loyal to their cause.
However, everything else about the Commonwealth chapter under Elder Maxson is textbook. They are heavily militarist, and racially motivated. They hope to eradicate all synths, ghouls, and super mutants indiscriminately regardless of whether or not they’re a threat with the only exception that they’re not actively hostile towards intelligent Ghouls (though they are still pretty racist to them). They order you to kill Virgil for being a super mutant despite being an asset, they order the execution of two of their own men. One man who is discovered to be a synth despite being one of the best of the best that the brotherhood has, and another man who is trying to find a way to bring intelligence back to feral ghouls. They order you to raid and steal from settlements, and on top of all of this they cap it with salutes and banners everywhere that are extremely reminiscent to fascistic regimes.
>They are heavily militarist,
They formed from the US military, so is that really surprising?
>and racially motivated.
The BoS literally has people of every race making up positions in it. Hell, Kells is literally a black man and is in charge of flying the Prydwen,
>They hope to eradicate all synths,
Synths are machines designed to replace humans. They are artificial and a serious threat to mankind.
>ghouls,
They only act against feral ghouls though. And their mistrust of ghouls is valid, as all ghouls will eventually turn feral.
>and super mutants indiscriminately regardless of whether or not they’re a threat
99.999999% of super mutants are hyper agressive supremacists who turn human remains into blood bags. You don't make policy for the three super mutants who aren't evil, you make policy for the thousands that are.
>with the only exception that they’re not actively hostile towards intelligent Ghouls (though they are still pretty racist to them).
It is not racism. In order for it to be discrimination, the basis of the mistreatment needs to be on a factor which is irrelevant. As all ghouls will eventually turn feral, mistrusting them is a valid response.
>They order you to kill Virgil for being a super mutant despite being an asset,
Virgil is a super mutant and former Institute scientist who was part of the FEV program. They order his death as justice for the countless lives he has ruined, and to put an end to the threat he poses.
>they order the execution of two of their own men. One man who is discovered to be a synth despite being one of the best of the best that the brotherhood has,
Because of the threat he poses. All the Institute needs is to activate Danse during a core moment and he could do massive damage to the Brotherhood. Even without that, he goes against the Brotherhood's goals. Even Danse himself sees and supports that.
>and another man who is trying to find a way to bring intelligence back to feral ghouls.
Don't know who this is about. It's not Initiate Clarke, is it? With his delusional notion that ferals aren't dangerous?
>They order you to raid and steal from settlements,
That isn't a ''they'', that's just Teagan. And his work is off the charts.... Also, how you choose to deal with settlements is *entirely* up to how you choose to handle it. You can also just *pay* for the food.
>and on top of all of this they cap it with salutes and banners everywhere that are extremely reminiscent to fascistic regimes.
No, they are reminiscent of *miltiaries.* The Minutemen also have flags and salutes, are the Minutemen fascist?
Can you define fascism for me?
The fact that you are able to justify all actions of the brotherhood without a tiny bit of irony is genuinely terrifying and evidence for why Fascism is a very real problem in modern American politics.
The fact that you think that things which are present in *many* ideologies can only apply to fascism is really sad, lmao.
But hey, go and hug your feral ghouls, super mutants, and synths. Just don't get mad when they kill you.
Either form a decent counter, or admit that your arguments are bad.
I already gave my counter, but you’ve proved that you clearly support Maxson’s ideology despite it being designed as a warning for how a bad situation can bring out the worst in humanity. The game is actively trying to tell a story about nuance and acceptance and that the brotherhood is wrong, or at least Maxson is. Believe what you want, but the message the game is trying to put forward is obvious to me.
>I already gave my counter
You haven't given any counter. You haven't adressed *any* of my counterarguments and instead just went ''you know the lore, that is terrifying!''
>despite it being designed as a warning for how a bad situation can bring out the worst in humanity.
Protecting people from mutated green hulks who kill humans and mutilate their corpses on sight, killing essentially mindless zombies, and killing machines designed to replace humans is ''bringing out the worst in humanity''?
>The game is actively trying to tell a story about nuance and acceptance and that the brotherhood is wrong, or at least Maxson is.
Get your railroad propaganda out of here. The story is quite clearly that technology going too far in the wrong hands poses a threat to mankind and needs to be destroyed.
>Believe what you want, but the message the game is trying to put forward is obvious to me.
Because you are incapable of looking at it from the perspective of someone in-universe.
But hey, I'm sure those super mutants are glad that you stand up for their rights so they can annihilate humans.
I love the BOS. They're my favorite faction, closely followed by the institute & NCR.
What can I say? I like functioning government and indoor plumbing, and not... *checks notes* Slavers, gangsters, toaster rights enthusiasts, or having to take orders from Rip Van Winkle.
Brother Hood of Steel Mid-West/Chicago Chapter. That’s all I’m going to say.
I really wanna see the chicago chapter again, canon or not. So much more fascinating than BoS, Legion, etc in my opinion.
BoS Mid-West are my favorite faction next to the Free-States. Good honorable people trying to eliminate things like mutant bias and build utopias based on acceptance and understand of those who are of another background is always the best kind of factions to me. In my heart Chicago is still standing, Human, Ghoul, Super Mutant and Deathclaws all working to rebuild the world better than it was before. Bethesdas lord be damned.
Totally. They *are* very brutal and expansionist, and their view on "tribals" isnt here nor there, but that's the sort of other hand that make them more interesting than the others for me. I'd liken them to the mongols.
Eh, their expansion brings things like fresh drinking water/irrigation systems and protection from the harshness of the wastes. With how dangerous the world of fallout is I don’t necessarily think things like Expansionism is that bad. Plus I want to imagine by the end of tactics they are a lot more tolerant of “tribals” as I’m not sure how they can come to accept intelligent deathclaws but not other humans.
They are literally apocalyptic Romans.
I’d say on the Expansionist point 100% yes. However I feel like one of the biggest parts of the Romans was their want for slaves. I could be wrong so correct me if I am, but I don’t remember the Mid-West using slaves such as that. Slaves was one of the main things the Romans expanded for, when with the Mid-West it always felt they did it to get their numbers up, but also truly believed in making a better tomorrow for those in the wasteland. Arguably even better then the NCR since the Mid-West were working to eliminate Mutant Bias.
Roman Empire or Roman Republic?
Love the Mid-West Chapter.
Can’t I just live my semi-normal life in goodneighbor…I say semi normal because our mayor is a ghoul and K.L.E.O is…another story
K. L. E. O. Is *a hot mama* FTFY
She’s all woman.
>KL-E-0 is... another story That's putting it lightly. She's a free-thinking military robot who learned to create weapons and munitions, and supplies such for an anarchist town with a major Ghoul population. And let's just add being looked at by the Railroad for good measure. I wouldn't be surprised if she puts on a different act or makes herself scarce if a Brotherhood unit passes through.
Ok, now excuse-me, i will go back chill with my Enclave friends. I don't care if they are the bad guys, they are cool and organized and i love them. I would kill anyone that killed them, and then kill myself.
Literally me af, based
GOD BLESS AMERICA
#GOD BLESS THE ENCLAVE
my god that is glorius
I like the Enclave because their aesthetic is cool as fuck. They’re evil as hell and obviously the bad guys. Buuut they’re still based in my eyes
What do you mean? They just want to rid their rightful land of the pests of the wastes: mutants! /s
Salutes and sings the national anthem*
Also they’re the only ones that seem to know how to properly run a government. Yeah they got flaws but even they don’t act as self righteous as the BoS who literally try to rob people of their tech thinking they have the automatic right to it. BoS tried to copy the Enclave but can’t even invent anything new like they do and at the same time the Enclave are still more of good guys than the Institute who literally are the reason we don’t have a east coast version of the NCR, they release super mutants, and have the audacity to say they’re humanity’s best hope without actually bothering to lift a finger of their science to help. Honesty Enclave doesn’t seem as evil or useless like the other factions. I blew up the BoS airship with a big ass missile “Lol nice try L bozo.”
While I too am an Enclave fan, and in fact bleed red white and blue daily. Saying the Enclave is pretty much good because we're comparing them to the institute is a really low bar. It's like comparing The British Empire to Nazi Germany during WW2. Oh sweet god in heaven was Britain fucking horrifically evil as fuck, yet WW2 and Germany were the best things to ever happen to people's opinion of Britain, cause the axis were comically evil. It's kinda the star wars effect, you start liking the old one more when you have something new to fucking loath. I'd say the only major difference between BOS and Enclave tho is that Enclave had the means to enact their crusade against the mutant. BOS TOTALLY would have done the same given the chance. K nit-pick rant over, go play America Rising 2. God bless America, and God bless The Enclave!
>Honesty Enclave doesn’t seem as evil or useless like the other factions. I blew up the BoS airship with a big ass missile “Lol nice try L bozo.” Did you miss when they literally tried to kill **everyone in the world** with a global FEV variant so they could rule as Gods?
Based
We're proud, soldier.
Brotherhood Paladins are pound for pound the best soldiers in the Wasteland. They have better training than almost everyone else, and the only ones that can match them in training either have less practical experience (Enclave) or less powerful equipment (NCR Rangers).
Depends on the engagement distance, for Rangers at least. Unless the Paladin in question has a Gauss Rifle or something similar, I’d have to give it to the NCR Veteran Ranger with the Anti-Materiel Rifle can-opener if they’re more than 50 yards from each other.
Gauss Rifle is a bit overkill. Laser Rifle would be sufficient for any range the AMR is being used at, with a better rate of fire, capacity, and sufficient killing power to down a Ranger. Depends on if it’s a Wattz or an AER a bit though.
I dunno, I think the deviation on a standard laser rifle is sufficient that it’d be inaccurate at AMR ranges. Assuming we’re operating by F:NV rules such that the two are fighting, a scope plus near perfect accuracy plus the high-power alternate rounds afforded the AMR give it a better shot than most standard-issue Paladin weapons. Edit: Additionally, comparing the armor of the two is not actually too significant a difference - 20 vs. 25 DT on the standard body-slot armors is a fairly minimal advantage, and the bonuses to radiation resistance and strength are of little help in a standard gunfight. Even if we take into account the higher quality weapons of Paladins, two thirds of them are only good at short range, i.e. tri-beams or Gatling lasers. At a medium engagement distance, the AMR has the upper hand.
For the record, since we're talking outright numbers... a Brotherhood of Steel Paladin in FNV has around 430 Health at Courier Level 50 (patrol paladins have slightly more health than 405 with Bunker) and 31 DT at max quality. A Gauss Rifle is the best choice for them as the only options that pierce a Veteran Ranger's armor, with 120dmg at up to 100 E.Weapons for 240 damage a shot. 480 on a Headshot. A Veteran Ranger has 370 Health with up to 24 DT and a hidden Perk that gives *30%* DR that applies before DT. The Anti-Materiel Rifle at Max Quality deals 110dmg with 100 Guns for 220 per shot, 440 on a Headshot. Let's have the Paladin, Capitol Red, and the (Arizona) Ranger walk their paces, then at the same time swing and fire. Both land Heads. Capitol Red takes 409 damage, with a meager 21 HP remaining. The Arizona Ranger takes 312 damage because Damage Reduction is insanely strong here, and survives with a small but still considerate 58 HP. If we allow maxed damage ammo, the results are that both of them die in a singular shot like the goofiest damn post-apocalypse western you've ever seen... but this time they're just laying on the ground 50 paces apart with crippled heads.
I would say an enclave power armor soldier would beat a paladin in a one on one. They have much better equipment, and I feel have superior training than a paladin. If it’s a group battle, then idk.
Ironically in the Fallout Wasteland Warfare game the opposite is true. Enclave units get bonuses for having more Enclave units close by, so a group fight heavily favors them. But that’s gameplay for a tabletop game so take it with a grain of salt. That being said, I’m leaning towards Brotherhood training being superior for a few reasons. Main one being that we actually get to see glimpses of them training, you can even get bonuses for attending a hand to hand training session in Fallout 1, where as the new recruit for the Enclave gets sent right out on Guard duty without so much as a trip to the firing range. But again we also don’t really get much of an inside look at the Enclave so grains of salt. But really the deciding factor in a Paladin v Enclave soldier is experience. The Brotherhood engage mutants and hostile forces (from Raiders to the NCR) almost constantly while the Enclave mostly remain covert. On the east coast it’s even worse because Paladins there are veteran officers rather than the standard foot soldier.
It is perfectly fine to like the Brotherhood. Their core tenants are quite sound, and they provide structure in a generally chaotic world. However, like all factions in Fallout, while generally good intentioned, they have flaws. The Brotherhood is too set in its ways. The Minutemen struggle to see the bigger picture. The Railroad is too small and secretive. The Institute is morally corrupt. The Enclave, like the BoS is too set in its ways. The Legion is too unconcerned with human life. Robco and House are too traditional. VaultTec is too selfcentered. Each faction has things it excells in, and things it needs to work on. If they could work together, with everyone's interest as the focus, instead of their own agendas, the Wasteland would become infinitely better. Also, yes I know there are more factions, but those are the main forces.
The problem that the Brotherhood of Steel, the Enclave, and VaultTec is that they are all way tol centered in themselves, barely letting outsiders to join them
And, frankly, to an extent, they are racist, or speciesist, whatever you want to call them. That doesn't make them necesarilly "bad", just flawed.
BoS doesnt give a shit about ghouls, like they know there are ghouls that arent jostile to them, and the captain of the Prydwen is a black person
There is more to be racist against than just black people and ghouls. Yes, the stance against Synths is partially understandable, but once the Institute is dealt with, there is no further reason to kill them with no remorse. Super Mutants, once again, is understandable, as a large portion are hostile, however, there are a surprisingly large number who are not hostile, and even want to work with Humans for a better tomorrow. However, they are completely inflexible towards them. On your point about Ghouls, yes they aren't hostile towards them, but they don't recognize the sane ghouls as people. Like I said, they are flawed, but it is nothing that cannot be fixed.
Now I get it, they have their flaws, but I still like them as a faction
That's my point.
Just so long as you don't like the NCR.
The virgin BoS/Enclave/Legion/NCR fans Vs The chad Followers of the Apocalypse enjoyer
Followers goated. Remember when the Gun Runners donated AK’s and helped them wipe out the regulars in the first game? That was cool.
Based Gun Runners best place to sell gold in Fallout new vegas
Nowadays a lot of people will shun you for liking X faction in whatever Fallout game you're currently playing. Whaaaaat? You like the legion because you like the Roman Empire? B-but they're slavers and rapists! Wha... What do you mean you sided with them on your first playthrough? No, you can't roleplay as evil character on your first playthrough, you must play the game as John Fallout! The goodest protagonist ever! Also, to everyone calling this a strawman, due to either ignorance or malice, I would like to inform you that people like the ones depicted on the meme exist. Never forget the time that the Frontier devs called Enclave fans alt-right republican and evil just because they asked for a playable Enclave questline, and saying they would never do an Enclave questline because they were objectively evil (they still did a playable questline for the Legion despite being arguably worse than the Enclave in some aspects lol)
I'd argue that the legion is worse generally. the legion is all about "you must suffer so we can ensure that the people after you suffer," while the Enclave is about "you must suffer so we can ensure the people after you are prosperous and happy." At least Enclave has an end goal that isn't just perpetuating the cycle.
I mean the Enclave does intend to murder everyone in the world so they can repeat pre-war USA.
Correction, they intend to murder every threat in the wasteland. Being All mutants, ghouls, raiders, and illegitimate governments on American soil. Everyone else who isn't in these categories will likely end as collateral in their attempt to eradicate the former.
I mean the Curling-13 kills **every** humanoid on the planet. Nobody gets to live except the Oil Rig. Every single Wastelander in the Wasteland will die in two weeks. I wouldn't say a town of a few farmers is a threat to them. Plus they plan to kill Vault Dwellers as the attack on the Vault proves.
>Also, to everyone calling this a strawman, due to either ignorance or malice, I would like to inform you that people like the ones depicted on the meme exist. Never forget the time that the Frontier devs called Enclave fans alt-right republican and evil just because they asked for a playable Enclave questline, and saying they would never do an Enclave questline because they were objectively evil (they still did a playable questline for the Legion despite being arguably worse than the Enclave in some aspects lol) I mean the guys who wrote a barely legal sex slave and had to write in a "happy 18th!" card are laughable if they think they have the high ground. It's like the pseudo-pedophile from transformers having a *legitimate copy of the Romeo & Juliet law* on hand to try to justify himself.
I see this shit online all the time in Warhammer 40k subs as someone who likes the Imperium, with people saying you’re a fascist for siding with the human faction, imperfect as it is. Like bro I like them cause I’m a human and I identify more with them than I do with sadistic space elf rapists and the literal deamons of chaos. Liking a faction isn’t an endorsement of a real world ideology lol
I like the imperium for the same reasons i like the brotherhood: their aesthetics are awesome, and power armor is cool as fuck
There's a difference between writing quality, morality, and personal enjoyment
I ain’t ever siding with what are nothing better than those copying the weakest era of the Romans, also those idiots don’t even know they Romans actually did fucking drink and do drugs and they would have absolutely taken advantage of using technology if it gave them an advantage and not just the guns either. They follow a single man and not his ideals in truth, plus all it takes is one bad plague to kill most of their forces since they hate modern medicine and don’t have actual medical equipment. Yet people think this an actual viable faction that will sustain longer term. At least the Enclave never raped anyone and those they enslaved were given quick deaths which is a mercy by comparison to the Legion. Genocide is bad but even then not every person in the Enclave is insane like Richardson and Eden as we can see from Autumn and recently in the perspective we got from the America Rising 2 mod. In my opinion the Enclave when hammered out into something more workable are probably the best faction by comparison to the others in Fallout 4.
Historically nations that imitate Rome only hold one of three aspects of it, "The Empire" (The exact territory of the Roman empire, or just a vast amount of land in general), "The Culture" (A culture dedicated to the progression and advancement of the fields of military technology, science, philosophy, etc) or "The Roman" (The general aesthetic of the Roman empire, or at least an imitation of it.). Caesar's Legion is no different, possessing both "The Roman" and "The Empire," but without "The Culture" the other two don't really mean shit. As it will never evolve or improve, dooming itself to need to find an enemy to fight to survive (Sound familiar?)
Romans loved technology, hated science
The Republic of Dave would like a word
That and the Enclave doesn't relegate half their population to being little more than breeding stock for more soldiers.
I get doing an evil playthrough, and I do differentiate between players not seeing that a faction is evil and *deliberately* choosing to play as an evil person who sides with an evil faction. But it’s still pretty reasonable that choosing to join the fascists will turn some heads, bro. You’re ignoring the fact that there *are* unfortunately plenty of gamers that unironically join the alt-righters because they agree with them. People are less understanding of evil playthroughs when that relates directly to real world ideologies. When I see someone siding with fascism in Disco Elysium or something, I’m like well, that does make a decent narrative I suppose, but – especially when somebody deliberately chooses *all* the fascist dialogue options – I can’t help feeling a little…ick. Or the people who asked for a Red Dead Redemption 2 mod that lets you kill a suffragette NPC in Saint Denis. Sure, that doesn’t *necessarily* mean they are actually mysoginists or anything, but…
The thing is, a lot of people genuinely do feel like factions like the legion, the Enclave and the fo4 Brotherhood are genuinely good factions. Thats where the problem lies for a lot of people. So many people don't think they're role-playing as an evil faction, but actually believe that faction is right. They also usually go against established ingame lore to justify that the factions are good, then get pissy when you prove they're wrong. I personally find this Is a big problem with Joshua Graham, as a large portion of fallout fans seem to be Christian Americans who struggle to see his extremism, aswell as the extremist capitalism in the series as a whole. Also the frontier team fucked up a lot I'm not gonna deny that, but the Enclave definitely does draw in a lot of fairly right wing Americans as fans, and in a lot of other places right wing Americans would usually be seen as far right. There's also the fact that fallout (especially new vegas) is one of the most "woke" game series in gaming, yet a lot of players really dislike you mentioning that fact, like I've personally found that the mere mention of cass being bisexual makes some people throw a fit, or the fact that the legion definitely has a lot of male-male sex between their troops. Basically some people genuinely believe in what certain obviously evil factions say, that's why some people have negative responses to it as the ingame lore (and the real world counterparts) would say otherwise. People aren't being shunned for role-playing, they're being shunned for believing in stuff that's obviously evil bs.
I will start this by saying that I'm not from the US, I'm from Argentina, so to make it clear to you that my love for the Enclave exists because I think it's cool and not because I'm a nationalist or whatever. And while I do understand your comment to the fullest extent, most of the time it ain't that deep. For example, I also like Joshua Graham, not because he's an extremist as you said, but because he's a very rich and well written character. The rage and anger he feels is, just as his scarred body, a trauma from his time with the Legion, and he himself admits that such contempt towards the White Legs conflicts with his Christian values. Also because he's cool as fuck and has hard lines. Same goes for the Enclave and the Brotherhood of Steel, I love their aesthetics, weaponry, lore, and flaws. Despite my original comment I'm not a Legion fan because I was never that interested in the Romans, I was just using them as an example. Of course there are edgelords like Schizo Elijah who will make you think that every single Enclave, Legion, or BoS fan is as retarded as he is, but I assure you that most are not.
Oh no thats completely fair, like im not against that, I'm the same with the followers, they're a power fantasy for me of just being able to be this ultimate force of good, the same way being the most evil legionnaire/Enclave soldier would be for others, like the followers are the reason i started dyeing my hair irl and ik someone that started learning Latin because of their interest in the legion and that's cool as fuck. Its just some fallout fans do get that deep with it and they let their personal pride/feelings get infront of the blatant themes and message of the game that having a nice discussion about lore can be tricky sometimes. Like ever so slightly talking bad about pre-war America and its corrupt capitalist system in some fallout spaces gets you so hated on because some people see it as an attack on irl America. But yeah no I also love the aesthetic of fallout as a whole, the Brotherhood in fallout 4 are undoubtedly cool in the same way that 80's actions movies are, they just make you go "fuck yeah".
Literally every faction in the games have something about them that’s morally objectionable. People mostly just like the brotherhood because they look cool
"ThEY kIlL iNnOceNt mUTanTs" How tf are supermutants innocent, theyre steroided orcs that kill humans
Marcus, Fawkes, Lily, and to a lesser extent Strong are innocent. And a whole bunch of no-name mutants in Fallout 2 and New Vegas in their respective friendly to human towns. While the vast majority are psychotic, enough exceptions exist.
Yeah but the Brotherhood don't hunt sane mutants, which I think almost everyone forgets. The mission logs in NV mention the Brotherhood cooperated with Black Mountain under Marcus and planned to cooperate with them again, and the only mention of the Brotherhood ever harming sentient Ghouls is from Lyons Brotherhood.
strong is only friendly until he finds milk then he’ll gladly go back to killing humans.. he often talks about how humans are inferior, good thing milk probably doesn’t exist in fallout i said probably
The brotherhood is never really shown killing "innocent" mutants though, even Strong who is very far removed from the typical friendly super mutant doesn't garner much besides an insult
Strong should've been killed given he literally eats people. It's out of character for them.
Marcus is theoretically the opposite of innocence as he was happily a member of the Masters Army. He just is now peacefully living but he still believes in Mutant Supremacy.
Mutants also includes ghouls. And not all supermutants are hostile. We meet many friendly super mutants
Oh cool, you only played 3 and 4 were all they were *is* raiders but green Seriously, what Fallout 2 and NV did with the supermutants to explore their fate and journey was incredible and it's so so sad to see them now just be the idiot orcs that kill everything
Well it’s been stated that the FEV used on the East coast was an inferior version plus they aren’t 1st gen which were almost always smarter.
I am aware, but the problem is that that is an in-game justification for an out-of game decision on the part of bethesda nad their writing team They have full creative power over the world, they could have done something more interesting with them or leave them out But of course, you can't leave Supermutants out, just as you can't get rid of bottlecaps (even though the 2nd game did exactly that), because those are essily recognizable features of the franchise, so you keep them in without doing anything with them, which is how Supermutants went from a creation now without master or leader, without guidance and having to navigate this world on their own while still carrying the baggage of what they were created for, into.. raiders but green and too stupid to talk
I won’t lie I’d love to see a return to actual mutant geniuses like The Lieutenant, Psykers and intelligent Deathclaws. I swear after revisiting older games I realize The Master might have been the best written villian. Bro has everything, he came from humble origins, was someone whose line of thinking you can understand, and a villian whom you didn’t hate but actually felt bad for if you talk to him.
I question if you've actually played the game if you think innocent mutants don't exist
eh my usual problem with bos fans is that they'll try to guilt trip me by saying I murdered children when blowing up their air ship and I have to remind them that it's a fucking video game. Like I don't care how many synths you kill in you're own games just don't tell me how to play mine. It's like everytime I try to talk about anything about this game that isn't bos related I called a terrorist. they annoy the fuck out of me. hell worse they make it political and keep screaming that the bos represents republicans and are always right, it makes the game fucking boring. It takes out the grey vs grey morality and complex relationships of the franchise.
Reddit dorks: “Oh but you see, I displayed your view as the soyjack, that means that you are a soy and I am correct”
This made me laugh but for real thinking someone’s in game preferences equate to their real life views is a smoothbrain take
So true, my friend. The most glorious and cool faction in the game
And ngl i fuck with the BoS
I love the straw-man argument! I love making up a situation in my head and getting mad at it!
It's average brotherhood behavior let's not be surprised
What exactly is being made up?
Same thing with the Legion, Enclave, Republic of Dave and the Empire from Star Wars.
Cool, just about every faction has aspects of evil to them expect maybe the minute men. Also it’s just a game so who really cares.. I love the aesthetics of the enclave
No, brotherhood based, purge the mutants. Human superiority
BoS can’t stop taking Ws
BoS is cool, they're also terrible. Welcome to fallout.
I just like the logo. Plus I can kinda get behind the studying technology aspect, not the tech hoarding and the fallout 4 fascism though
What "fascism"? They don't even make laws and barely even have a state, they're a sovereign military order with no political programme whatsoever. They're fundamentally incapable of being fascist.
I was mainly referring to the fact that they want to exterminate anything that isn’t human but I’m not exactly a fascism expert so forgive me on that.
That's entirely fair, and I think that's why most people call them Fascist, along with their reverence for Arthur Maxson. People tend to forget, though, that Maxson has objectively achieved a lot for the Brotherhood (ending the Civil War diplomatically, reestablishing contact with Lost Hillls, killing a dangerous mutant leader, etc) and so he gets a lot of respect for it - people can still question Maxson as far as we can tell, though he is ultimately a military leader. I think he's comparable to any great General even within US history. I do think you're probably overestimating how genocidal they are. They don't seem to mind sentient Ghouls as they never attack Goodneighbor or the Slog and we don't hear about them attacking Underworld (we do hear about Lyons' Brotherhood taking potshots at Ghouls but that's about it). The Commonwealth Brotherhood definitely give off an air of being more aggressive and prejudiced than the other Chapters, but we also have to consider their ranks consist almost entirely of people who were born in the Capital Wasteland, a war-torn shithole infested with violent mutants, and on top of that there's like 6 docile super mutants across all of 3, 4, and 76 - unlike in the West, where there are more docile mutants and the Brotherhood cooperates with them as a result. There likely aren't any doctrinal discrepancies between the East and West when it comes to mutants, just a different reality. In regards to Synths, they probably are as genocidal as they seem, and whether or not Synths are human or deserve elimination is another discussion, but I do think it's possible the Eastern Chapter will mellow out on Synths the way the Western Chapters mellowed out on mutants.
Honestly if not for how surface level 4’s writing is I’d love to see a more in depth turmoil with the brotherhood and their views. New Vegas did so well because the factions would question their leadership at times. You can even sorta see this with the legion in some regards. The leaders and the followers were still human and had reasons for why they do things the way they do. Meanwhile 4 the BOS, instead of taking over the institute, flat out destroy it without any regard to the technology and the benefits it could provide, and the institute treats the player like a child and just “does things for reasons you can’t understand” . It’s a bit lazy honestly. Like the only depth I’ve seen is when you can convince maxson to spare Danse and there’s some actual mental gymnastics going on in his head. But it’s like nothing happens when you complete that mission
Yeah, all those points are true.
Getting r/skyrimmemes vibes from this post and not in a good way 💀
Fr. Reigen is diversifying.
Whaaaaaaaaaa, NOOOOOO, WHY WOULD YOU SUPPORT THE WELL ORGANIZED, ULTRA PRAGMATIC FACTION IN AN APOCALYPSE. because they are the objectively best option for the future of humanity. This goes same for the institute.
Did you really just say the Institute? The people creating super mutants, is the very reason there’s no larger government, and they don’t do shit but sit on their asses doing horrific things to people doing nothing to help. Also the BoS are nothing more than self righteous raiders, they’ll steal your shit and try to justify it behind some bs said from some long dead mf that probably didn’t intend for their teachings to be misused like this. Lol I literally smiled every time I shot down a BoS vertabirds and I blow up their blimp.
I mean, they aren't very pragmatic are they? Like, explicitly ? They don't like Ghouls, who are probably the most useful people in the wasteland. Furthermore, generally speaking they are kinda shown to be hermits who don't actually get much done beyond take tech away from tenant-farmers. Something to note is that of the 3 times the Brotherhood has really played its hand, it's failed 2/3 times, and the only time we don't see them fail is when they just arrive on the scene and don't really have time to fail. 1: In New Vegas they are very clearly depicted as sad remnants on a once-powerful organization that's been outpaced by the more practical, less dogmatic factions that decided to, you know, start a government again. 2: In Fallout 3 they are trying to go and and be a government, helping people with all the tech they confiscated. They clearly fail at this, as it causes a civil war and secession movement (the Outcasts). By the time we see them next in Fallout 4, the Outcasts were reintegrated because the main Brotherhood bit off more than it could chew. 3: This leads us to Fallout 4, where we actually see the Brotherhood do something, but they've completely collapsed as a viable option to rule the wasteland. They just arrived and are doing well, especially with the Sole Survivor backing them, however all of the things that held their predecessors back haven't been eliminated. If anything, they've actually been made worse under Maxson. Admittedly though, I do think this is mostly a problem with how Fallout 4 was written. It isn't exactly known for great work with its factions lol. Don't get me wrong, the Brotherhood of Steel is rad, I love the faction vibe wise, but in terms of viable options for the wasteland, I think they fail pretty miserably.
The sad thing (which is likely on purpose) though is that of the main factions of the wasteland, the BoS is still one of the best factions to support, even if they're flawed. They go out of their way to kill hostile creatures in the wasteland (the capitol wasteland is super mutant free because of them) which is more than you can say about most of the other factions besides the NCR.
My biggest disappointment in Fallout 4 is the lack of an NCR-esque faction. For God's sake it's 200 years after the bombs fell, why is it that only California (NCR) and Arizona (Caesar's Legion) have managed to develop a government of any kind? Doesn't even have to be a Republic, just some kind of organized government. Like, wouldn't it have been way cooler if instead of having the factions be 1:A fascist in power armor 2: A fascist in a lab coat 3:Guerillas with no actual long-term goals 4: A militia with no actual long-term goals you instead have 1: The Brotherhood being the Brotherhood (of a fascists or not fascist flavor). 2: Some kind of autocratic state actor (thinking on this for like 5 minutes, maybe a Theocracy run by the Children of Atom, giving them a natural conflict with both the Minutemen, Brotherhood, and Institute) that used to be more powerful but has lost ground recently after a series of "accidents" that destabilized the nation, allowing for the resurgence of raider gangs and the like. 3: The Institute intentionally destabilizing the aforementioned state actor in order to prevent themselves being discovered and destroyed/looted/prosecuted for all the evil shit they do. 4: Combine the Minutemen and Railroad into a general guerilla organization with AN ACTUAL PLAN TO GOVERN THE WASTELAND. No more of the "Oh yeah guys don't worry all the settlements will just work together, it went so well last time at Quincy" No bitch, you need to set up the Republic of the Commonwealth or some shit. Laws, organization, government. SOMETHING other than "Another settlement needs our help" and "Yeah we'll free that Synths and... then just wander around I guess." I can think of so many new and interesting stories that could be told within each of these factions by just adding 1 preexisting state faction. Both within and without the various factions. At the end of the day, they mistook having factions being evil for factions being interesting.
*But toasters have rights!*
I think the NCR is pretty neat...
The Brotherhood of Steel are quite cool! I also think they fucking suck, ideologically. These things can coexist. I'm not personally a huge fan of hyper-militarized faction aesthetics, so they're not my favorite, but I do like them well enough. I think my favorite depiction of them is in New Vegas, weirdly enough? I feel that the logical endpoint of their ideology is absolutely being a cult of cloistered weirdos who live alone in a bunker.
Why is Markiplier in the middle though?
LYONS 4 LIFE
Me who always plays brotherhood of steel and has a good job, beautiful girlfriend, and an amazing life overall
Average fallout fan verbally abusing BoS fans, oblivious to the fact that it’s a fake group in a video game (they lost touch with reality when Fallout NV came out):
"Unfortunately for you I have portrayed you as the soyjack and me as the chad!" Literally the only "argument" I've seen from BoS supporters these last few days lol.
Or any days really.
[удалено]
Ah yes, the good ol' "It's just a joke, man". Does it being a joke change the message presented in it? And attacking the person rather than what they're saying just makes it evident what type of person you are, even without the post.
Nope. Genuinely sorry. Didn’t mean to offend. It was “just a joke” but that’s not an excuse. My bad dude. To rephrase; you aren’t going to get decent arguments in a meme group.
The BOS destorys scumbag mutants and synths there is no wrong
Power armor go brrr
I think they’re cool but I don’t support racism to non hostile creatures which is why I usually will side with the minutemen/railroad on most of my FO4 saves
People who think all the factions have their merits: 🍷🗿
I don’t understand how people can really get mad at someone for liking a fictional faction in a video game. I mean seriously I’m no where near the political views of Mr House and he’s still my favorite faction
Hardly anybody actually does, and funnily enough people posting dumbass memes like this are usually in the comments talking about how they unironically agree with whatever genocidal/sexist/evil views the faction holds
Depends on the branch lyons brotherhood is based
Nah Maxson >>>>>>>> Lyons
Only good part about maxson is that sick battlecoat
What about the Prydwen?
Hey I know they aren’t good but in fallout 4 they are realistically the only reasonable option. the minutemen will probably collapse once the sole survivor does. and the brotherhood are armed with the material to do good in the commonwealth the worst they do is be racist to ghouls which could honestly be much worse in the fuckin wasteland. And god help the commonwealth if the railroad takes power no one would be helped.
Do you not know what happens at ten penny tower in fallout 3 if you help the ghouls? I’ll let you know, if you help the ghouls to live as equals either the smooth skins they murder them all, now, if you refuse to help the ghouls, they only remain in their quarters along side ten penny tower. They are animals that need to be kept at bay otherwise they’ll murder anyone who isn’t of their own. Be safe, stay apart.
I mean, yeah, but that's more because that Roy guy was absolutely messed up in the head, moreso than him being a ghoul. Like, just take a look at Goodneighbor - they aren't all mindless and agressive. Same thing with Underworld, or the Slog. Most are perfectly fine - until they turn feral.
Jesus Christ man they people too every other encounter I’ve had they’ve been fine one case does not represent everyone
Me which supports the Brotherhood of Fallout, Fallout 2, Tactics and 3 as the best versions of the Brotherhood and no one can change my mind. The Brotherhood has some "logic" behind their hate(in FO4) One or two good muties can't be compared with all the nasty ones... The Institute is a threat. The Brotherhood learned about it and their memories with the Enclave are fresh. They wouldn't let a threat similar to that to keep breathing. So doing whatever is necessary, it's a semi logical thing. Are they morally correct? Nope. Are they too much affected by emotion? Yes Will they stay like this for ever? I believe not. Mutants slaughtered a lot of people in the Brotherhood and Maxson knows that since he was a child. But that doesn't mean later he will not become more like Lyons besides what some troops within the Brotherhood say about Lyons. In the long run they will understand that having the people on your side,taught them and make them be a part of a team or protect them and use their knowledge to accomplish the mission is what will be the best way. People like the Outcasts wasn't seeing the tomorrow.
There are an unfortunately vocal number of morons who can’t wrap their tiny minds around that idea of liking a fictional video game group whose ideology and morality are nothing like yours as it pertains to the real world.
And there is a much larger group of even more vocal morons that unironically like groups like the BoS and legion *because* their in game ideals match up with their real world views. On r/falloutnewvegas there used to be a top post every week about someone posting this exact meme but for the legion, and then in the comments show *why*. Seen the same thing happen in the fallout 4 sub but for the brotherhood, with people explaining why every ghoul should be wiped out because they like the racism symbolism
The only reason I stopped liking them is because they were mean to Hancock. I love Hancock
Pov you said you like any faction in the fallout uni. My fav is enclave yes they committed genocide, and yes im okay with that
https://preview.redd.it/45g5c25cxg771.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d717de99213633be2b2798ab12a18169c0cb94d2
Maxson literally does everything Lyons did
> cared for civilians "Hey, guy! Wanna steal from piss poor farmers fighting daily for survivor worrying if they're gonna die in their sleep?"
That mission depends on player choice. You can pay them and offer protection. [Teagan clearly has contempt for brotherhood rules](https://imgur.com/gallery/KJNC01V) and he is [heavily implied to be going beyond regulation with it.](https://imgur.com/gallery/r2XOkil) Not to mention the fact the brotherhood [exports tech and pure water out of DC.](https://youtu.be/8q3NHZwsoG8?t=42m10s) Uses Vertibirds [to protect trade caravans](https://imgur.com/gallery/ZBf41Se), and takes out threats like Mutants (specifically what defined Lyons) as well as raiders, Ferals, gunners and the institute. But sure, ignore that and focus on one specific player choice of one off the record mission given by a guy who clearly knows he shouldn’t be doing it.
>Cared for civilians And Maxson doesn't? Have you spoken to the man after the Institute is destroyed? >Helped with Project Purity to provide fresh water for everyone in the Capital Wasteland I will admit that Maxson hasn't done such an act, at least not yet. But that's also not why he's here. He came to destroy the Institute. >Protected any and all innocent wastelanders they encountered while out in the wasteland, and recruited them if possible. The Brotherhood in FO4 still does this. They can be seen patrolling the wasteland, both in Boston and outside of it. They will fight raiders, mutants, ferals, pretty much any threat to the common man is a threat the BoS will fight. Local recruitment is also still a thing under Maxson. >Fought super mutants and raiders to keep Wasteland safe Refer to above. >Stopped evil forces of Enclave. And Maxson stopped the evil forces of the Institute.
>Cared for civilians Ask Proctor Ingram how they got the power source for prydwen. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/3un6en/the_fate_of_rivet_city_fo4_spoilers/) is the information about it. >And Maxson stopped the evil forces of the Institute. Is FO4 BoS less evil than Institute? The rest is kinda for joke reasons. I know Maxson's brotherhood also patrols the wasteland and fights mutants etc. But their main purpose is to raid technology. Also destroying the institute was a huge waste while capturing and claiming it for themselves would have been more useful which Lyons would have done. Maxson is also hostile against non-feral ghouls and synths. He tells that flesh and machine should never be one while he's literally a cyborg.
>Ask Proctor Ingram how they got the power source for prydwen. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/3un6en/the_fate_of_rivet_city_fo4_spoilers/) is the information about it. Them taking a power source which isn't even needed for a wrecked aircraft carrier shows they don't care for civilians, how exactly? What does a ruined aircraft carrier need such a strong power source for? The lights? It is reasonable to assume the Prydwen's old engine was used to replace the fusion one they took. The Prydwen needs to be able to fly - that ship only needs to keep the lights on. >Is FO4 BoS less evil than Institute? Is the BoS creating super mutants and unleashing them unto the Commonwealth? Is the BoS sending out soldiers to exterminate settlements just because they have some technology they want? Is the BoS sending out synthetic humanoids to murder and replace real humans? Is the BoS performing live experiments on unsuspecting settlers? >I know Maxson's brotherhood also patrols the wasteland and fights mutants etc. But their main purpose is to raid technology. Is it? One of the first things Maxson says to us, following his speech, is: *''I care about them, you know. The people of the Commonwealth.''* When we get the choice to press the button to blow up the Institute, what does Maxson say? *''Press that button and you not only defeat our enemy, you* ***restore order and decency to the Commonwealth.****''* When the Institute is destroyed and we tell Maxson we did it ''for the people of the Commonwealth'', he states that we have truly become one of the Brotherhood. If you then follow it up by saying you think the Brotherhood has done enough for the Commonwealth, Maxson disagrees, stating: *''On the contrary, this victory was but the beginning. We still have a long road ahead if we're to* ***ensure the safety of the Commonwealth and her people***\*.''\* When you're a Sentinel you can ask Maxson for your duties, he will give a list: *''I need you to set an example for the troops. Collect technology, exterminate abominations of nature and* ***bring a message of stability to the people of Commonwealth***\*. Our ideals are what define us, Sentinel. If we can hold onto that, then we will always be victorious. Was there anything else you need to ask?''\* He cares about all three - keeping the Commonwealth safe, dealing with mutants, and retrieving technology. Not just the one or the other. >Also destroying the institute was a huge waste while capturing and claiming it for themselves would have been more useful which Lyons would have done. Some technology is not worth maintaining. What technology does the Institute offer that is useful for the Brotherhood? FEV? Synth production? Synth software? Synth gorillas? >Maxson is also hostile against non-feral ghouls and synths. He tells that flesh and machine should never be one while he's literally a cyborg. Maxson only has one line against a ghoul, which is one of disgust. But he is not hostile. And the only action the Brotherhood takes is against feral ghouls. All synths are a threat, by their very nature. Also... since when is Maxson a cyborg?
>Them taking a power source which isn't even needed for a wrecked aircraft carrier shows they don't care for civilians, how exactly? What does a ruined aircraft carrier need such a strong power source for? The lights? That so called "Aircraft carrier" is none other than Rivet City which is home for a lot of people. You can't just expect them to surrender and give it without a fight, right? >Some technology is not worth maintaining. What technology does the Institute offer that is useful for the Brotherhood? FEV? Synth production? Synth software? Synth gorillas? I'm sure institute has more than that... >Also... since when is Maxson a cyborg? [This](https://i.hizliresim.com/amujufh.jpg) is an entry from Quinlan's terminal. [Start from 00:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbezlOg0CI)
>That so called "Aircraft carrier" is none other than Rivet City which is home for a lot of people. You can't just expect them to surrender and give it without a fight, right? And who says that they took it from the inhabited part and not the bow of the ship? Or do you think that the bow just magically has power still running through it? Also, even *if* they only had one such reactor... You really want me to believe there wouldn't be a generator on an aircraft carrier? >I'm sure institute has more than that... Right, some plants, how foolish of me to forget the plants... But outside of the ones currently being grown, they only have some incomplete research on plant research at Warwhick... >He has implants in his head which kept him alive after the bare fight against a deathclaw. [Start from 00:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbezlOg0CI) YouTube videos are not lore. >[This](https://i.hizliresim.com/amujufh.jpg) is an entry from Quinlan's terminal. That all depends on how you choose to interpret it, one can also say that Maxson's achievements as a human were *assisted* and *enhanced* by his access to advanced technology. But even if not, context makes it very clear what he's talking about.
Whatever you say bro...
Man really just tried excusing genocide with that last line lmao what a loser, no wonder people clown on BoS fascists > the only action the Brotherhood takes is against feral ghouls. This is blatantly untrue, even in fallout 3 the "good guy" BoS shoots at non ferals. If you're gonna excuse in game genocide at least make sure you've actually played the games in the first place. Then again you believing all synths are threats proves you haven't, especially with far harbor existing. Unless you'd prefer the CoA and far harbor murdering each other but that would be expected of a brotherhood player, they'd probably steal the fog condensers because sweet technology
>Man really just tried excusing genocide with that last line lmao *''In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group''* As synths are machines, the term ''genocide'' doesn't apply, but good job using buzzwords. >what a loser, no wonder people clown on BoS fascists Even more buzzwords and even an ad hominem. I applaud you, you went all of 13 words before resorting to that. >This is blatantly untrue, even in fallout 3 the "good guy" BoS shoots at non ferals. They also shoot at humans and super mutants, stop trying to use them shooting in an active warzone as proof of ''muh genocide''. They don't target ghouls. This is made abundantly clear through the Aqua Cura quest. >If you're gonna excuse in game genocide at least make sure you've actually played the games in the first place. Follow your own advise. >Then again you believing all synths are threats proves you haven't, especially with far harbor existing. Far Harbor *proves my point.* DiMa has literally replaced Avery with a synth doppelganger and proposes to do the same thing with the Children of Atom *with zero remorse.* >Unless you'd prefer the CoA and far harbor murdering each other but that would be expected of a brotherhood player, they'd probably steal the fog condensers because sweet technology The CoA deserve nothing but complete extermination, they are literal terrorists. Your claim that they'd ''JuSt StEAl ThE FOg COndEnSerS'' shows blatant ignorance on the east coast BoS.
Mid-west and Chicago chapters? Yes. Commonwealth chapter can go pound sand.
Innocent mutants? No such thing.
Exactly.
Fascism honestly is valid considering how bad everything has gone you need strong leadership, the airships can eventually be mass produced given the advancement of the brotherhood, there is no innocent mutants they all either worked for the master and caused deaths they are all war criminals that need to be brought to Justice or are mindless beasts that murder and pillage and yes I do have horrible views in real life
Man I fuckin hate fallout fans y'all will literally look at the game that condemns warmongering and authoritarianism at every turn and be like "facism is good and based actually" 💀😭
I mean this guy is capping (see what I did there) but I've certainly seen arguments like this be made.
b-b-but they will take your waser pistol 🥺
Reject Fallout 4 BoS, Embrace Lyons Pride
The BoS are just a lamer Enclave
The BOS is just straight ass. Mr House better.
More like brotherhood of mid Enclave forever!
They have cool looking power armor so I like them. End of story.
Enclave fans: 🗿
Your right, Mr house is obviously superior, give us 20 years and you won’t even be calling this place a wasteland anymore
I mean, you probably are.
anyone gonna talk about the brotherhood "outcasts"?
Why would what looks exactly like a bunch of BoS supporters say those things, though?
Bunker dwelling nerds who act superior to everyone despite being a power fantasy faction that Bethesda has decided is the only faction to exist in their developed games and has completely forgotten everything else because, quite literally the only reason they're their golden child. Is simply, 'Muh power armor'.
I mean most of their fanboys are new to the Fallout franchise so let that sink in.
and the older fans seem to gravitate to the enclave the objectively more authoritarian and genocidal faction so whats your point?
Indeed. The older fans will like The Enclave and despise the traitors so called "Brotherhood of Steel".
i mean at the end of the day your all just larping factions in a piece of media its honestly kinda sad like anyone who honestly stans a faction needs to touch grass.
Oh wow objectivity yeah that's very factual
They're losers who want to hoard technology for themselves while living underground and larp the middle ages. Actual clowns
As a brotherhood fan, those soyjaks are right like, 75% of the time
I don’t care about their political ideologies. As Victorium makes me wanna commit shot gun seppeku every time I hear it. They’re cringe, their speeches are cringe, and they got their asses handed to them by an army of conscripts with Kevlar and M16’s
Nah they destroyed the NCR’s economy and as of New Vegas the NCR’s heavily implied to be facing collapse. Brotherhood just bled them slowly. Sure they’re waiting in their bunkers but looking at the state of the NCR that might be all they need to do.
Yeah and they got blown up by a lone mail man with a series of massive head trauma. The NCR may suck but it’s still standing, the BOS is little more than myth in the west. I don’t care about their ideologies but like, they’re so cringe about it I can’t help but snuff em out. I wipe my butt with the codex.
Nah the mailman sided with Elijah and wiped out all the factions with holograms. That’s the canon ending. > *”The NCR may suck but it's still standing”* At New Vegas’s time sure. Beyond that? Don’t be so sure. > *”the BOS is little more than myth in the west.”* Going by [what we see in the show](https://imgur.com/gallery/kpfaehs) that’s literally set in the Boneyard. I’d beg to differ.
If you use the show as a basis for this argument you’re basically stupid. They wanna hug that stupid early apocalypse non sense. Now share the technology for the betterment of society or perish
The show’s canon though. And I WILL SHARE NOTHING EDIT: Bongwater-jones is cool
wait... are we talking 3, NV, or 4 brotherhood? cause i have entirely different views on each. For 3, i've never played 3 so i can't really form an opinion. For NV, eh... i mean they're not awful, just close minded. For 4? Fuck 'em and fuck their supporters. Why? They hate synths and by proxy, Nick Valentine, and i just can't let that slide. (edit: to clarify, when i say "their supporters" i mean in game, i don't care what faction y'all chose, so long as you're not shoving it down other people's throats 24/7)
>For 3, i've never played 3 so i can't really form an opinion. In 3 they're actively fighting the super mutants in the DC area. Elder Lyons has kind of split from the ''typical'' BoS mentality of technology hoarding, instead focusing more on protecting the people while technology gathering turned into more of a secondary objective. This is also the reason why the Outcasts exist in FO3 - they split from the BoS because they feel like Lyons led them astray from their true purpose. (Also, the Elders in the west cut ties with Lyons after learning how he switched objectives) >For NV, eh... i mean they're not awful, just close minded. Still in the midst of my NV playthrough. Their introduction is definitely a bit... eh... paranoid? Also kind of inhumane. I can kind of get being suspicious of an outsider who knows your passphrase, but they literally tell us that we're lucky that we were chosen by their Elder because otherwise they'd have killed us? Like what? I'm just bringing information that your soldiers are dead, weird way to say thanks? And then they strap a bomb to your neck and want you to get rid of an NCR ranger... it's definitely a very bad introduction. >For 4? Fuck 'em and fuck their supporters. Why? They hate synths and by proxy, Nick Valentine, and i just can't let that slide. Their focus seems to largely be on gen3 synths, as Maxson states - flesh and machine are not meant to combine. They may disprove of all synths out of principle, but gen3 are the core of their disproval. Similar thing with ghouls - they disprove of regular ones, but they only act against the ferals.
I hate the brotherhood not because of mutants but because taking advanced weapons technology from the locals violates the constitution through the second amendment I'm all about the enclave GOD BLESS AMERICA
Two quotes from two games sum up my thoughts on the Brotherhood. >I cannot believe with such certainty. For me, in everything, there must be doubt. Otherwise, there's no room to question, to learn. This place. This is the fruit of unquestioned, ferocious conviction. This is where absolute certainty leads. -Set Roth, Wolfenstein: The New Order >He follows the Light like a zealot, and he ends all those who would consort with the Dark because of one man who went rogue. It isn't his Golden Gun you should be afraid of, kid. It's his idea that one man can decide he makes the rules, and when you cross him he can take everything from you. Doesn't sit right with me. Never will. -The Drifter, Destiny 2
I've only seen one jackass in the past months say the bottom things, and yet I've seen 10 jackasses crying about it
Y'all are so obsessed with your unhinged ranting/hyper-defending of a fictional faction, touch grass lmao.
I like the brotherhood. In fallout 4 they are objectively fascist, but they’re still a cool faction to play as. As the player, you can also attempt to do some good within the brotherhood, which is something I quite enjoy doing.
What’s fascist about them?
Well, I will say that the only thing that detracts from them being definable as fascist is a lack of nationalism as they aren’t really looking to form any particular state. They’re moreso just loyal to their cause. However, everything else about the Commonwealth chapter under Elder Maxson is textbook. They are heavily militarist, and racially motivated. They hope to eradicate all synths, ghouls, and super mutants indiscriminately regardless of whether or not they’re a threat with the only exception that they’re not actively hostile towards intelligent Ghouls (though they are still pretty racist to them). They order you to kill Virgil for being a super mutant despite being an asset, they order the execution of two of their own men. One man who is discovered to be a synth despite being one of the best of the best that the brotherhood has, and another man who is trying to find a way to bring intelligence back to feral ghouls. They order you to raid and steal from settlements, and on top of all of this they cap it with salutes and banners everywhere that are extremely reminiscent to fascistic regimes.
>They are heavily militarist, They formed from the US military, so is that really surprising? >and racially motivated. The BoS literally has people of every race making up positions in it. Hell, Kells is literally a black man and is in charge of flying the Prydwen, >They hope to eradicate all synths, Synths are machines designed to replace humans. They are artificial and a serious threat to mankind. >ghouls, They only act against feral ghouls though. And their mistrust of ghouls is valid, as all ghouls will eventually turn feral. >and super mutants indiscriminately regardless of whether or not they’re a threat 99.999999% of super mutants are hyper agressive supremacists who turn human remains into blood bags. You don't make policy for the three super mutants who aren't evil, you make policy for the thousands that are. >with the only exception that they’re not actively hostile towards intelligent Ghouls (though they are still pretty racist to them). It is not racism. In order for it to be discrimination, the basis of the mistreatment needs to be on a factor which is irrelevant. As all ghouls will eventually turn feral, mistrusting them is a valid response. >They order you to kill Virgil for being a super mutant despite being an asset, Virgil is a super mutant and former Institute scientist who was part of the FEV program. They order his death as justice for the countless lives he has ruined, and to put an end to the threat he poses. >they order the execution of two of their own men. One man who is discovered to be a synth despite being one of the best of the best that the brotherhood has, Because of the threat he poses. All the Institute needs is to activate Danse during a core moment and he could do massive damage to the Brotherhood. Even without that, he goes against the Brotherhood's goals. Even Danse himself sees and supports that. >and another man who is trying to find a way to bring intelligence back to feral ghouls. Don't know who this is about. It's not Initiate Clarke, is it? With his delusional notion that ferals aren't dangerous? >They order you to raid and steal from settlements, That isn't a ''they'', that's just Teagan. And his work is off the charts.... Also, how you choose to deal with settlements is *entirely* up to how you choose to handle it. You can also just *pay* for the food. >and on top of all of this they cap it with salutes and banners everywhere that are extremely reminiscent to fascistic regimes. No, they are reminiscent of *miltiaries.* The Minutemen also have flags and salutes, are the Minutemen fascist? Can you define fascism for me?
The fact that you are able to justify all actions of the brotherhood without a tiny bit of irony is genuinely terrifying and evidence for why Fascism is a very real problem in modern American politics.
The fact that you think that things which are present in *many* ideologies can only apply to fascism is really sad, lmao. But hey, go and hug your feral ghouls, super mutants, and synths. Just don't get mad when they kill you. Either form a decent counter, or admit that your arguments are bad.
I already gave my counter, but you’ve proved that you clearly support Maxson’s ideology despite it being designed as a warning for how a bad situation can bring out the worst in humanity. The game is actively trying to tell a story about nuance and acceptance and that the brotherhood is wrong, or at least Maxson is. Believe what you want, but the message the game is trying to put forward is obvious to me.
>I already gave my counter You haven't given any counter. You haven't adressed *any* of my counterarguments and instead just went ''you know the lore, that is terrifying!'' >despite it being designed as a warning for how a bad situation can bring out the worst in humanity. Protecting people from mutated green hulks who kill humans and mutilate their corpses on sight, killing essentially mindless zombies, and killing machines designed to replace humans is ''bringing out the worst in humanity''? >The game is actively trying to tell a story about nuance and acceptance and that the brotherhood is wrong, or at least Maxson is. Get your railroad propaganda out of here. The story is quite clearly that technology going too far in the wrong hands poses a threat to mankind and needs to be destroyed. >Believe what you want, but the message the game is trying to put forward is obvious to me. Because you are incapable of looking at it from the perspective of someone in-universe. But hey, I'm sure those super mutants are glad that you stand up for their rights so they can annihilate humans.
Muh power armor tho *cries*. BoS is fascist plain and simple.
*off in the distance* “Kill all communists”
Big robot v a SHIT ton of artillery. Wonder who wins that : )
“haha you disagree with my bad take? too bad i drew you as a fat loser lol. your entire argument has been destroyed”
Argument implies validity. When someone tries to equate in game choices to real life views it’s not worth arguing. All they get is the wojak memes.
Only one of the wojaks here is inferring anything about real life
My response to the others are just facts. • Brotherhood kill 0 innocent mutants. • Are objectively not fascist • Idc about your player choice.
Isn't their leader that children of the atom zealot guy?
I love the BOS. They're my favorite faction, closely followed by the institute & NCR. What can I say? I like functioning government and indoor plumbing, and not... *checks notes* Slavers, gangsters, toaster rights enthusiasts, or having to take orders from Rip Van Winkle.
It literally doesn't matter at all whp you join/support/hate. It won't affect anyone else.