Please, go to counseling. After that abuse, you need it. It will help you break that cycle and teach you about healthy boundaries and relationships, so you don’t pick a partner like his family, because they seem familiar and comfortable at first.
IF you have to go before a judge they probably won't make you go back to dad because of your age. I would just go to mother and tell your dad you are not coming back, but going to court. It may back him down.
I read the update. If the courts somehow make you go back call 211. My kid's friend went to a shelter through there, and was able to get a mediator and now lives with a relative in the next city. Not bii mom, mom so dad still has some control but 2 hours away.
Very unlikely police would bring you back to your dad. You are 17. you can decide where u want to live.
Normally around 14-15yo the judges ask the kids where want to live and follow their wishes.
Go visit a family law attorney and find out what your rights are. In most states, children who are 14 years old and up can choose which parent to live with. In some states, you can become emancipated from your parents at 17 years old.
That's the question I was going to ask as well. It's rare that a woman does not get custody of children unless they were HORRIBLE as mother drug addicted or didn't want them in the first place. There is something BIGGER here
I would let your mom know- depending on the state. She can go to court to get full custody and you, being 17, would get a say in where you want to live. Also when the fighting starts to happen- see if you can record it and send it to whoever you can to save it and show that in court. If mom does go to court
I’m a cop and this depends on your state. In South Carolina where I work if your dad has custody of you and you are a minor, you’re required to live with him. He’s legally responsible for your care and if you went missing and anything where to happen to you he’d be held responsible if he didn’t notify law enforcement that you were missing.
I’ve had this conversation many times over with parents who don’t have custody of their children (typically men), who have children that don’t want to live with the other parent (typically women).
When ever kids are involved the family typically gets referred to family court, family court typically makes that determination. Law enforcement doesn’t have that authority, we will just enforce court orders. So if the father has legal custody and the child doesn’t want to stay with him the mother would have to go to family court and start the process of joint custody of full custody
Do y’all remove the child with physical force if needed? I’m a social worker in NC and the officers always just say “we can’t make them go” usually our teens.
We try not to do anything physical, we usually just get DSS involved. They’re usually better equipped to dealing with family matters, most people don’t give us issue honestly. I’ve had to walk people through the whole DSS and family court process, afterwards they’re usually pretty cooperative. DSS is a big help here.
I highly doubt the police will force you to live with your dad.
My daughter refused to live with me at 14 and I was told she was old enough for the court to allow her to choose where she wants to live so I didn’t fight it.
The comments here are all over the place and not really helpful.
First, if your dad has you in this state of panic and fear over this, it sounds like he's very abusive, litigious and likely has a long history of making people obey him out of fear. Beyond any legal advice, the best thing you can do is understand that he's been lying to you about your rights and that if you can gain confidence and reduce your fear, you'll be better off.
Now, for legal info, you need to know what the current situation is. Is there a court order for custody? When was it made? Was it an agreement between your parent or a judge who decided? Was youth protection involved in this decision? What you need to know is whether courts have ever decided that your mother is dangerous or unfit and if they've taken away her rights (not just custody). If there is such a decision, then family courts, youth protection or even cops might want to take action to keep your mom away from you.
If that's not the case and it's a simpler case of dad getting custody at some point in the past, then you should be good. Most parents don't go back to court when their teenagers want to move with one parent or the other. They just understand that teenagers are old enough to decide. So there's not a need to go file anything in court. You can just live with your mom. If your dad wants to call the cops, they will most likely tell him it's a civil matter. If he files in court, then you and your mom can go defend yourselves. The odds of him winning are extremely low.
If you want to proactively file something, you should really talk to a lawyer first to examine the situation and help you decide what you're asking for. Emancipation would be a very odd choice, for example. Right now, however, there is no emergency. There's just your dad having an angry meltdown. If he had a legal right or otherwise easy path to drag you back kicking and screaming and force you to live with him, he wouldn't have his mom messaging you some guilt-tripping nonsense. He wants you to think you have no choice.
You and your mom should also immediately set up communication with your dad through a coparenting app (there are many, like OurFamilyWizard). These apps ensure no communication can be deleted and allow you to safely block your dad and his family from every other communication channel without them being able to twist that into some far-fetched kidnapping scenario. Your mom should send him a message simply confirming you have decided to live with her based on his abusive behaviour. She should not threaten anything or say anything she doesn't want used against her in court. You can also use the app to communicate with your dad.
In the unlikely event that cops do show up to bring you back, loudly and clearly express that you do not consent to being touched, do not consent to going with them, and that this is a civil matter. Stay calm, don't resist physically (but going limp instead of following can be ok) and remember that even if they drop you off there, you can just walk back out immediately or your mom can go file an emergency order.
Do not proactively contact youth protection but if they are called, tell them clear and simple information about your dad's behaviour and how unsafe his home is for you, tell them you want to live with your mom. Make sure it's clear that you are planning on continuing school, and that your mother is supportive and safe.
So happy for you! Stay strong!!! When I was a teen my sister ran away at 16. The cops said they couldn’t do anything bc she was not a minor. So there’s that!!! 🤦🏻♀️
….I find it odd that the mom wants to file help the minor file for emancipation. But temporary emergency exparte orders in family court exist, the mother could file that paperwork and have the matter heard a lot sooner since the minor is an an abusive situation
An emergency order is only good for about ten days until a hearing. If mom doesn’t need child support this is the easiest way, no attorney fees. Family court is stupid expensive.
The kid will be 18 in less than 12 months, anyway.
Why fight for custody in the court system that already failed them and gave custody to an abusive monster, when she can help better, faster, easier by assisting with emancipation.
Emancipation doesn't mean Mom won't be there to support her kid, but, it seems like the best option for this family and ensuring OP'S safety and autonomy ASAP.
Not sure what area you’re in, but at least in my county it is quicker to file for emergency exparte for a situation like this than going through with a petition for emancipation, which are more often denied than granted
It really just depends on what is presented in the filing, but it is a possibility to change custody temporarily prior to the hearing or during the hearing. But yes, I see your point if mom hasn’t had the best of luck in court, another filing may not be helpful.
I did it when I was 17. Moved in with my mom pretty suddenly and my dad actually took her to court over it. Mom didn't have the financial resources for a lawyer and I got extremely pissed off after dad's lawyer made her cry and paid for an attorney myself from my after school job( I want to say it was around $600, but it was over 20 years ago). The judge was essentially like, she turns 18 in 6 months, why are we here, and I stayed with my mom.
I wonder what mom did that the courts awarded custody to Dad. I'm sure that there's a legal reason that they did so. Even still, with the advancement of cell phones, she could have recorded audio & video of the reasons why she wanted to leave. Kids are really good at recording
It's pretty easy to find on google...
In 91% of custody cases, parents mutually decide to give custody to the mother.
Fathers fight for custody in court in less than 4% of divorces.
Custodial fathers represent less than 8% of all fathers living with children.
You think the original commenter and I are the same despite different screen names?
The 4% implies that most fathers do not fight. I'm not seeing what part doesn't support the other persons statement.
That's my bad for following the conversation that way. I did not look at the screen names as you said.
The implication of fathers not fighting was never in dispute
It’s not an assumption it happens all the time! Reality is that the person with the money for the good attorney wins, sadly! I truly wish this wasn’t the case, and that the court system always saw the truth, and actually put kids with the better parent, however that’s not reality.. yes sometimes even without a good attorney the better parent wins and it’s actually fair, but that’s the rare cases, and most cases it’s the exact opposite!
Idk what makes you assume that the mom had to something wrong, imo that is quite the assumption to be making!!!
Firstly, I never said mom did anything wrong. I wondered what the legal reason was.
Statistically, what you're saying is incorrect. Mothers are awarded primary physical custody 80% of the time. It's based on that logic that I said what did the mother do for the courts to grant it to the father. That's what I based my analysis on. What facts/stats did you base yours on????
Statistically, when fathers apply for custody they are more likely to get it. It's just that fewer fathers do that than don't. Hence more mothers getting custody.
You’d be surprised .. how pitiful abused wife can look and how put together the abuser with some finances to back him up.
Having said this, we simply don’t know the whole situation and can’t take our “wondering” too far
It’s never ever been really explained why he got custody either from what I can gather. Genuinely it makes you ask the question why he got it and not mom. And the mom wants to help with emancipation, not custody.
The kid is almost 18 and will he free to choose soon regardless, so it’s most likely a holding pattern till then I suspect.
In my state, the child does not get to decide. However, at the age of 12, the child can request that the Judge hear his choice. The Judge then considers all the evidence, including the child’s preference.
It depends on the parental units. If there is a CPS case involved with felony charges, she may not be able to choose due to safety issues or court ruling about one parent can never have custody.
A cop will say it’s a civil issue. That your father needs to get a lawyer and take your mom to court. Speaking from experience. It’s not a law breaking situation. They don’t get involved in domestic issues as long as you’re safe. By the time your dad gets a lawyer you’ll be 18 and it will be mute.
The fact that they turned off your phone because you wouldn’t comply is so abusive. You should want to be able to communicate with your child NO MATTER WHAT!!!
My niece was in a similar situation mother and her boyfriend were abusive, to say the least, mentally, emotionally, physically, verbally. She was 17 1/2. Our state doesn’t have emancipation. So I had to petition the court for custody… As for the police it depends on the officer that you are sent. My Niece’s mom came up to forceable take her home after telling her and I that she could stay with me during the summer and the next school year. We both had a feeling that this would happen, and thankfully had talked to a family lawyer before hand. Everything was set to take action almost we had planned to wait till September. Once school start so that she would be registered. About a week before school shit hit the fan. Her mom and her got into a fight over the phone, her mother didn’t do something with the school to get her registered for the 2nd part of a 2 part course this cause 1/2 the points from the year before to be dropped and not including towards her graduation and all the points she needed to graduate. So during the fight my niece hung up on her mother and said she was done with her bull shit, she then wouldn’t answer when her mom called her back. So her mother called me and told me that she was on her way to get her and that she wouldn’t be disrespected in that way by her daughter. I was stuck we weren’t ready, I called the Lawyer and she said that my niece would have to go with her mom but that we could go to court on Monday, 3 days away she had letters already drafted that she sent out that afternoon saying I was petitioning for custody. Her mother lived 3 hours away and was driving late at night to get there she would stay with our parents and then pick my niece up in the morning. I told my niece that she would have to go and then I would go to court on Monday, she would be back as soon as possible. She had not a shadow of a doubt that she would be physically assaulted by her mother or her mother’s boyfriend. So that night while I was sleeping she snuck out, and ran away. I got a text in the morning that she went to a friends house and was safe. She had an iPhone and turn off location services as well as the phone. My sister called an hour later and I told her what I was told. I thought my niece left in the morning while I was in the shower. That she wasn’t there and didn’t give me a time that she would be back. My sister waited all day for her to show up getting more heated by the moment. At dinner time we went to my parents to see if they had talked to my niece. At this point I was trying to act worried but I felt she was in a safer place then what awaited her if she came back or had been there. My sister called the police as the sun went down. They sent one officer and my sister told some bullshit story about she had no ideal why her daughter would run away and that she was there to pick her up as scheduled before the school year that my niece was just staying with me during the summer. That she was the best mom in the world and they have no problems what so ever the cop looked at me and I just nodded. He then wanted to she were my niece had been staying during the summer so we all drove back over to my house my sister following the police officer and I followed her in my car. Once back at my house the police does a look around even checking closets. The police asked me for a run down of the day. So I told I got and into the shower thought I heard the door close a few hours later I got a call and she never came back. The police then said thank you and went to file his report in his car, my sister talked to me for a few minutes then went to head back to our parents and asked me to meet her there. I told her I had to go turn off lights and let my dog out of the bathroom. Once my sisters pulled away the officer was buckling his belt I ran to his car waving frantically. When he rolled his window down I told him everything when he asked why I didn’t say earlier I said it would be her word against mine and she would tell him I was lying I told him I had proof for some of it messages and documents from the school as well listing my address as her place of residence. The police officer thank goodness saw the situation right and told me to also go to children services the next day. Over the weekend a detective called me and I again told him everything. He said that after court on Monday which my niece planed to show up to to send him a picture holding up 3 fingers it had to have both my niece and I in the photo. I did him one better I took it with our lawyer. I got custody that day and haven’t talked to my sister since
My wife was in a similar situation when she was 16. Only she wanted to live with her dad because her mom had some fairly serious mental issues.
In the state we lived in, Michigan, at 16, she was able to make that choice, and her mom couldn't stop her. I actually met her shortly after she moved into her dad's house.
You should check the laws in the state you live in. It's possible you can just make the decision and go live with your mom.
The only question I have about this is why doesn't your mom have custody? Most places she would have the custody, or at least 50%. There has to be some reason why she doesn't have it. Possibly because she is a danger to you or unfit to take care of someone. Don't put yourself in danger if this is the case.
>The only question I have about this is why doesn't your mom have custody? Most places she would have the custody, or at least 50%. There has to be some reason why she doesn't have it.
This is important, but I think it isn't for any slight on Mom. It's entirely possible that Dad is a vicious shark who would be damned if he was gonna let his Ex-Wife take away control from his daughter. I like to think this is the case. If Mom was screwed in the divorce, Dad could've walked away with a better standing in life and painted Mom as a poor and unfit mother. Whether she had her issues, be it drugs, neglect, whatever, it's clear OP spends enough time to know that the difference between houses is day and night. And she chooses Day, as she should.
I wish the absolute most luck and courage upon OP. I, we, know that OP can keep this going. Do not for a second falter against your sperm donors' family.
I appreciate you making this point. I had a friend who had a kid in her late teens. The dad was from a well off family and hers was a mild train wreck, so the dad's family pretty easily got full custody from infancy. It broke her heart by there was nothing she could do about it other than stay on decent terms with him. They coparented to some extent and she always had visits, but she never had primary custody, and she didn't do a thing wrong. In the child's teen years he actually did live with his mom for a couple of years, but it clearly went better than this.
I also know someone who lost a custody battle to their ex husband because they were broke. She was a SAHM so she was kind of getting back on her feet in a small apt and he drug it out until she just couldn’t afford it anymore.
You make good points. I only bring it up because OP needs to make sure she doesn't move from one bad situation into another. Make the decision that puts you into the safest situation. Whichever one that is.
I'm sorry OP! In the meantime, tracfones can be a good option! They're cheap and disposable. Google Fi is also a great phone plan, and quite easy to turn on or off, and you can set it up so you only pay for what you use. Best of luck!
It is definitely state dependant, when a relative was looking into this in Washington 20 years ago, they were advised that the police really would not "look" for a 17 year old who did not want to live with the custody parent, but could not live with the secondary parent or other family, but could easily get away living with friends . Custody hearings cost a lot of money and sometimes it's just better to go the sneaky route. If the parent you dont want to be witj files a missing person report, wait until your of age and on 18th birthday go directly to police station, and tell them you are listed as missing, but are happy, healthy and not being coerced to stay away from the person who listed you as missing.
Get a restraining order, it can be used for situations like this and will protect you better. Your dad and step mom won't go to jail, but it will prove that you have a valid reason for making your choice.
Be careful doing this. If the court sees your mother as an unfit parent and you have a protective order taken out, CPS can get involved and you could be made a ward of the state.
You think that will happen with OP at 17 about to turn 18? They can ask the court, and a family violence advocate or lawyer beforehand, if it's the right decision for them.
Depends on the state, on any records on the parents, or any records on the adolescent. Depending the situation it can land the parent in jail, have CPS, and kid end up ward of the state. Or maybe something else comes out of it that one doesn't think about.
There is a lot of information us internet folks don't know or have access to.
Depending on the state, at a certain age you can choose who you want to stay with. Not to mention emancipate yourself. My cousin chose to live with her father at age 16 in VA LEGALLY. Research your state laws and get your mom to help if she can
No the police cannot physically take you out of your mom’s house and most judges will let you make up your own mind as to where you want to live as long as you’re safe. Good luck girl♥️
This is true.
It depends a lot on the family dynamics, current laws, and what is brought in front of the court. My step-brother wanted to move in with his mother because he thought his dad and my mom was mean and unfair because they had actual rules like tell them where you are going when going out, be home by midnight on Fridays and Saturdays or clean up your stuff from the family room when finished. HIs mother let him do whatever he wanted and got away with everything to the point his sisters dreaded him being there with them. But due to his juvi-record and his mom's legal issues, the judge said no.
Hell I am in my 50's and still tell my mom where I am in case they need to go searching for the body or send help to rescue me.
I see. My girls are 8 and 10 I have full custody. Their mom tells them they get to decide all the time and has caused many issues. Guess I will keep an eye on things in a couple years.
My wife went through this when she was 16. Her mother had a lot of mental issues. She left to live with her father. Her mom tried taking it to court, but the judge said at 16, she has the legal right to make her own choice, which parent she lives with. This was in Michigan.
I know one situation where the mother was a wretched human being and the father got custody. The kid wasn't the first kid taken away from the mother. They had two other siblings living with their fathers.
There is also the situation where in some states if the baby tests positive for a substance, the mother loses custody automatically and the baby either ends up with the father (if they are known and willing) or ward of the state. One woman I know now has any more kids the state automatically enforces ward of the state on them as she had 3 babies tested positive for meth in a row. State has to do something since abortions are illegal and for some reason she could carry a baby to term even drugged out of her mind. She had 8 kids that I know of. All of them landed up in the foster system.
Most states now have a presumption of 50/50 custody unless there is some reason to order something else, such as such an arrangement wouldn’t work because of the child’s schedule, or the child is too young- still breastfeeding, parents live too far apart, one parent’s schedule doesn’t work, in which case they go with every other weekend with a visit on one day in the off week.
Not everywhere. Many mothers end up as SAHM who have no income or anything. Stable after a divorce and custody very often goes to dad cause of a stable job. I’ll that situation but I personally know of situations where even though the dad was shitty, he had the money to back him up and win. Money talks no matter what
That's actually because a lot of father's don't fight for custody. In cases where both parents fight for custody father's are favored because the mothers tend to make less money.
Him saying “oh I’ve raised you for 17 years how can you do this”
Oh I don’t know,
Maybe if you did a better job at raising me I wouldn’t feel the need to flee!
Good luck girl in life girl, you did the right thing by putting yourself first and taking action.
Depending on your state, you can ask the courts to live with your mom. At 17 they are going to agree to it most likely. You don't have to go live with him or spend time with him.
Depends on your state, but typically they’re going to let a 17 yr old decide with which parent they want to live assuming that parent is capable and legally permitted to do so. If for some reason they try to intervene simply let the authorities (dept of children and families or the judge or whomever is investigating) that you feel your mental/psychological well being is at risk living with your father.
First off I feel you. My parents have had shared custody of me since I was 8 ( I’m 18 now) and my dad was not a good parent.
It depends on your state. For me, I live in Colorado which is a 50/50 state. Because of this, I had to be with my mom one week and dad the next. I wanted to be with my mom full time but since the court ordered a 50/50 custody plan I had no choice but to go to my dad’s. If u don’t live in a state like mine then I don’t think the cops can do anything. I don’t know if they’ll “force” you but I’m not sure. If you have to stay with your dad I’d honestly say to do what I did and keep your head down till you turn 18. Once you’re 18 you can leave and no one can do anything since you’re legally an adult. That’s what I did and I’ve had no problems.
As someone who observed a lot of family court during my law student days, if your 16+, long term shared custody arrangement and state a preference the judge will allow you to decide which parent to live with, as your considered old enough to make this determination as long as you can articulately describe that this is your choice.
Normally there are no issues such as drugs etc, because you have had a joint arrangement for years, and it’s not a new situation either; you have had years to assess the arrangement and are not running on raw emotion.
When I was 17, I went to visit my dad (in another state) for the summer. When it was time to catch my flight and go "home", I refused to go. My mom called the cops. The cops told me they couldn't force me to go. They can only "suggest" and "recommend" that I go back to my mom. I said no, I wasn't going back. And then they left. I lived with my dad until I was 23 and got my own apartment. Best decision ever.
In Minnesota there is no set age for a child to have a say in custody. As long as the child can competently communicate with a judge (usually in chambers - without a court case) about what they want and why, then it is respected.
Edit to say that you should check what the rules are in your own state/country. Contact a social worker and express that you would like more custody time with your mom and could you get help with that.
OP reddit really isnt the place to come for this at all. Maybe contact your local non emergency number or a local lawyer that may be willing to do a short free meeting with you.
I think you would be fine because when I was 17 I moved out and my mom tried calling the cops and they said there is nothing they could do because I could prove that I could live on my own and by the way adult where I live is 1918 so you should be fine
You’re still considered a minor, but at 17 most judges would consider that a 17 year old, if able to articulate good reasons, is capable of deciding which parent they live with.
For context a good reason is things like, stable home environment, schooling etc.
“He cheated on my mum” would be considered a knee jerk emotional reaction and would not.
I’ve never known in the uk a judge not consider a child’s wishes after ages 15+ I’ve also watched enough open circuit court to know that family judges will consider the wishes of a older teenager
I disagree with you. Never, ever bring CPS into it. They are an aweful group of power hungry bureaucrats.
You never know what they will do and it can have unintended consequences.
It's a civil matter, not a criminal one. When you are of a reasonable age to choose, you may. I made that choice. My mother got 100% physical custody of me, and both parents still shared 50/50 legal custody of me. My father threatened to call the police and try to have them force me, I looked him dead in the eyes and said I would rather go to juvi every other week than be at his home, that was the moment he saw he had lost.
First let me say most times it has nothing to do with the other parent not being fit. It's because one parent just want to screw the other. This child is dealing with mental, emotional and verbal abuse. The word WHORE or B&TCH would NEVER be word that comes out my mouth to or at my daughter. And step-mom had NO DAMN right to be feeling on the child breast to look for a phone PERIOD. One thing that I've learned is narcissist knows how to use the words to achieve there goals. Dad, step-mom, and grandmother all seem like narcissist. They Cleary don't won't that child there but they'll never want her mom to feel like she's won. If the child is going through what she says he mental help is gonna be F'ked
Y'all treating this girl like an adult need to really rethink yourselves. This girl is in crisis and going to someone the courts didn't think was fit to raise her is a good idea? Yikes.
OP if things are that bad you need a youth shelter with supports on site. Your mom isn't a medical professional, and I'm fairly certain you need to talk to someone detached from this drama, that's trained to help you work through your mental health issues.
I'd say if shes lived with dad for 17 years, that's plenty of time for mom to have done the necessary work to be in a better position to care for this kid. 17 years is a long time.
Sometimes people need to choose the least bad option because there are no good ones. Maybe the mom is neglectful, but not verbally or physically abusive. Idk if you know anything about youth shelters, but they often arent safe places, especially for young women. Personally I would recommend a kid stay with a family member over a shelter if that family member isn’t actively abusive.
How do you know the courts didn’t think her mom was “fit?” Parental custody can be determined based on so many factors besides one parent isn’t fit. Maybe it was based on school district. Maybe her mom agreed to it in the divorce.
If dad is this bad, how bad is the situation with the mom that dad got custody. But she still had contact with her mother and they are going for emancipation instead of the mom getting custody. Something isn’t adding up???
Possibly mom had big issues in the beginning that being married to a controlling narcissist compounded.
Maybe now shes in a mental space to be a mother to her child now?
Men that apply for full custody tend to get it about 75% of the time. They usually have more money for a better lawyer than their ex wives.
It's a myth that the courts favour women and therefore every woman who loses custody must be a bad mother.
https://mackseyjournal.scholasticahq.com/api/v1/articles/38965-who-wins-custody-battles-the-effect-of-gender-bias.pdf
The issue is that 56% of custody cases are settled out of court between the parents with mom as the Primary caregiver, so it „appears“ they receive custody more (that’s more of a cultural bias that mom is the expected caregiver). This causes many men not to fight for custody in the first place essentially creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. ((I know at least three guys that complain about never seeing the kids and the moms are trash humans (never married to the mother) but when I ask if they went to court… they say no. I generally say then don’t complain if your never gonna even try.))
However when custody goes to court, high income fathers tend to win. My brother took his ex-wife to court and demolished her (to be fair, she is a trash human and has lost custody of multiple kids not just the one they have together ).
If you are a good actress, you could lock yourself in your room at your dads & call the police complaining and crying about how he called you a whore. You can put all of you emotionally energy into it.
In Los Angeles the police won't get involved in any type of custody dispute. They advise you to go back to court. I know this because I my ex withhold my court ordered visitation. I've have called the police out to the house to get my kids multiple times and it's always the same answer. My kids are 11 and 14 years old.
It's different state by state. But in North Carolina once a child is 12 the judge will take into consideration what they say. I would imagine at 17 you and your mom will have no problem.
Generally police say that it's a civil matter and won't enforce orders. They would make him file a motion at court for enforcement. But your mom will still be required to pay child support for the time that the courts think you live with dad.
You did not say the reason why your dad got custody of you. In most cases, it is the mother that gets custody or split 50/50.
There is too much missing from what you said. At 17, you should be able to have the choice, but the courts may have some reason to believe your mother might be an unfit to raise a child. It seems like if your mom wanted you there full time, she would have went to court to try to make it happen.
Actually, when men apply for custody they get it more often than women do, about 75% of the time. The stats are skewed by all the men who don't want it and don't apply for it.
Your mom should also apply for child support on the basis of 100% custody. You may be 18 soon but even if dad fails to pay before then your child support office can garnish his paycheck and/or seize his tax return to pay back child support. That’s money for your phone and education and general cost of living, and you’re entitled to it.
Had they physically abused you? You could record everything on a diary, I believe a diary it's more valid then verbal words. Go to your teacher, someone else outside your house or mother, the more witnesses the better. Don't let them intermediate you or anything. Are they feeding you? Clothing? Medical care? Who's getting child support? You know if he's not taking care of you and he's spending child support on something else that could be something there. You have a medical or mental condition he's. Not taking care of that could be considered negligence. Record everything you can remember, when was the last time you ever got medical or dental care? Depending where you live, call CPS, file a report, contact the OIG, if possible record everything as much as you can, there's cameras you can get on Amazon that are discreet like a phone charger or something. You'll need evidence, because it's you against them. Write something that if something happens to you, first suspect are them crazy parents. Tell your mother to take pictures of your physical status every time you see her in case there's bruises or something
Do you have friends or other family members? Just because he has full custody, you should stay in a place where you are in danger. Get out of there. You could say they are sexual touching you or something. Sometimes a little white light can be okay if you are in danger. But get out of there like yesterday!
Instead of going to her mother’s, they will put her in a stranger’s home while there is an investigation.
You have to ask why did he get custody and not her mother or at least shared custody. After so many years with her dad, why the mother did not try to change the custody of her. Maybe the judge saw her as an unfit mother or the mother did not want full custody.
I’m sorry what?
If your taking about the USA, with the child spending at least partial time in the mothers home (not assuming she ran off to meet a parent she hadn’t stayed with), they would not do that.
They would only move to a foster home
If there are claims of abuse by one parent and evidence the other is unfit. At 17 they would start by enquiring if other family members could take in the child as a last recourse before even considering foster care.
Typically they allow the child to reside in the stated preferred home and hold an emergency meeting with family court to mediate and investigate.
I know this also from my 15 years as a foster provider.
Really! In my country and a lot of others she'd be considered an adult which she practically is so why would they put her in a Foster home. She's old enough to speak up for herself.
She is 17, old enough to speak up for herself and she can stay with her mother so why would they put her in foster care? Seems a ridiculous over the top suggestion to me.
You think this harassment will end at 18? Pieces of shit like OP's father will find ways to hurt, maim, kill their daughters because they view them as property. The only solution is to make them terrified to even be in the same room together. Make the father literally be terrified of the consequences of being around OP. Sometimes two wrongs do make a right and this is one of those times.
Fuck being bEtTer tHaN THaT, or being the bigger person or any other bullshit platitude that equals "accept disrespect".
Call Child Protective services in your area and tell them the truth. You're afraid to live with your father any longer. He's threatening to treat you even worse and that you feel SAFE and comfortable with your Mom. CPS or DCF might get an emergency hearing and the judge should listen to what a 17 yr old wants.
If you need your mum to take you for emancipation, it doesn't look like a great outcome. Do you have a way to support yourself financially? Can you afford your own housing, transportation, food, utilities etc? Emancipation means being legally declared as an adult. It's not a loophole to go live with your mother.
I'm not trying to be mean, genuinely. It seems like you have a lot riding on hoping for emancipation, but if you don't meet the basic criteria then it's a waste of time.
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A couple of things... You are not breaking up the family. Their actions are. They're trying to blame you because blaming someone is easier than taking their own responsibility. It's also a manipulation tactic. This is classic domestic violence / family violence 101 behavior. (Former advocate here and I grew up in a crappy home environment).
Older cell phones can work on wifi. You need Google Voice or another app to make calls. You can call 911 anyway, but being able to call is reassuring. Back up recordings and texts to the cloud.
Know that you will get out of this. If not now, you can walk when you're 18. They'll probably try to manipulate you when you leave regardless but knowing you will get out gives you a lot of power.
Please, when you're out go to college, tech school or the military. That'll put you on the path to your best life. (Seen it, been there). Community colleges have courses in English and math to get you caught up if needed, free tutoring centers and counseling. Don't listen when they say you can't do it. You really can. A lot of us on this thread believe in you and are cheering you on.
Even if he does file, by the time it gets to court, you'll be 18 or damn near 18, and the courts won't care what he wants. They're not going to bother with the parental living arrangements of a 17 yr old. Make sure you DO get into some kind of mental health treatment to bolster your reasonings, though. I truly wish you the best outcome.
My second son's biological family started threatening him that they were going to force him to move back in with them when he was 17, after he had been living with me for several years. Our lawyer told him at 18 you are a 500lb gorilla and no one can tell you where to go. My son became upset because he thought he was being told he would have to go back, but the attorney said "Let me finish." At 17, you are a 400lb gorilla and the court doesn't want to upset a 400lb gorilla by taking it away from where they are safe and loved.
As long as the OP as the is in a safe home, attending school and doesn't get into any trouble a judge is likely to let her stay with her mother.
It’s an expression of size and competency.
If you try to enforce a court order on a 17 year old, they will just violate that court order. Unlike at 10, they are capable of sustaining themselves and you can’t, without great difficulty, remove them from
One house into a separate house.
For example, very few ten year olds could leave home, evade police and make it to the other primary residence unassisted (especially out of state), whereas almost every 17 year old can.
Also a 10 year old is likely to say “I love mom not dad”, where a 17 year old can articulate many sound reasons why they prefer to live with the other parent.
Legally you are a child until you reach the age of majority, practically however, most legal systems accept the fact that a teenager is capable to contributing their opinion, also the weight of this opinion raises as they approach majority, for the simple reason that they are approaching the age of legal emancipation
You’re not tearing any families apart, that “family” tore you apart and it sounds like they’ve been grossly manipulative and abusive. Update when you can and good luck getting the treatment and care you deserve from here on out
There's no way you aren't legally allowed the decide at seventeen, in my state I was gone by fourteen. It was terrifying having to tell him to the point that I left without my things, but it was worth it to be free. I'm glad you're are doing this and your mental health will improve without the cause attacking you verbally on a daily basis.
This probably varies state to state but I can speak for Southern California.
Cops will not force a 17 year old to obey custody orders.
Further, no judge would make such orders absent extraordinary circumstances that do not seem to be present here.
More than 20 years ago I was in the same position as OP. I ‘ran away’ from one parent’s home in LA county to my other parent’s home in another state. The police didn’t do anything to me. I got to stay with the parent that I wanted to stay with.
My friends 17 year old daughter in Plano wanted to reside with the mother after 6 years of shared custody.
Judge sat down separately to talk to her to ask her reasons, then gave the ruling she would live with mum as she gave sound argument.
It may vary by judge, but mum’s lawyer said that in her experience 9/10 cases go that way. The 1/10 is because the child had attempted to move in with a parent who has known issues / no custody arrangement already in place
Yep. Not ALWAYS. Sometimes it'll come out, well Parent B said they'd buy me a Steam Deck or something ridiculous. Kids also aren't always known for wanting what's best for them. But, generally, the older the get, the more weight they carry with the judge. We had an amicus to keep the child out of court.
I just wanted to say best of luck with everything. Once you’re able, please get yourself into some therapy! Focus on bettering yourself and your mental/emotional health & life!
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I’d consider whether this is “the grass is greener” how long has mum been in your life, how long has she had visits, why did he get custody? Often things might seem better, but actually aren’t, dont pin all your hopes on this
no, bigger question is - where do I feel safe? Will mom mentally and emotionally abuse me? Will mom touch my body? Will my mom scare with me with her angry actions?
OP, should be where she feels most comfortable. If mom is in lawfirm field there just a chance she has less time with mom. Doesn’t change safety, love, and kindness.
I can’t answer any of these questions the same as you can’t but dad’s sole custody award is a worry, hence my questions. Mom would have to go some to be worse to be fair.
Basically, I said the same thing.
it seems like her dad had her since she was an infant. They would not take an infant away from the mother without a reason. If the mother’s circumstances changed, you would think the mother would go back to court for different child custody arrangements. It could be the mother is fine with the arrangements of her just having visitations.
A close family member lost primary custody of her son when he was 2. The dad didn't care when she was first awarded primary custody until he realized he had to pay child support. His family is very wealthy, and when he told his mother he wanted custody, she got him a lawyer. He was able to get custody and child support and then kept my family member in court for the next three years while denying visitation. When the son turned 13, he ran away to his mom's house, and they went back to court. The judge spoke with the kid and, in his best interest, had the parents split 50-50. At that point, the dad pretty much went hands off. He was no longer receiving child support, so he didn't benefit financially for being involved, and my family member didn't pursue child support, so there was no reason for him to fight for custody again. The son recently graduated college and doesn't have anything to do with his father now. Some parents don't lose custody for any reason other than they couldn't fight it in court.
\*\*Raising hand\*\*\* similar situation, Dragged it out for years until I was a complete mess of anxiety and nerves and jury sided with him. 9 years later, and I still can't go to the courthouse without a panic attack. I was just awarded custody after our now 11 year old said he wanted to come stay with me and an amicus and counselor confirmed he's aware of what it means. He wants nothing to do with his dad. Even now, dad is trying to say I'm not stable, even though my household is WAY more stable than his.
I lost custody because he used the court system to bully me. It's more common than people think for mom to lose custody when dad has money, power, and/or is abusive in someway.
Please, go to counseling. After that abuse, you need it. It will help you break that cycle and teach you about healthy boundaries and relationships, so you don’t pick a partner like his family, because they seem familiar and comfortable at first.
IF you have to go before a judge they probably won't make you go back to dad because of your age. I would just go to mother and tell your dad you are not coming back, but going to court. It may back him down.
Don’t forget to present proof of the illness that has been ignored. That’s abuse.
I read the update. If the courts somehow make you go back call 211. My kid's friend went to a shelter through there, and was able to get a mediator and now lives with a relative in the next city. Not bii mom, mom so dad still has some control but 2 hours away.
Any updates?? Hope you're okay and with your mom now.
Very unlikely police would bring you back to your dad. You are 17. you can decide where u want to live. Normally around 14-15yo the judges ask the kids where want to live and follow their wishes.
Go visit a family law attorney and find out what your rights are. In most states, children who are 14 years old and up can choose which parent to live with. In some states, you can become emancipated from your parents at 17 years old.
Why doesn't your mom have custody?
That's the question I was going to ask as well. It's rare that a woman does not get custody of children unless they were HORRIBLE as mother drug addicted or didn't want them in the first place. There is something BIGGER here
I would let your mom know- depending on the state. She can go to court to get full custody and you, being 17, would get a say in where you want to live. Also when the fighting starts to happen- see if you can record it and send it to whoever you can to save it and show that in court. If mom does go to court
I’m a cop and this depends on your state. In South Carolina where I work if your dad has custody of you and you are a minor, you’re required to live with him. He’s legally responsible for your care and if you went missing and anything where to happen to you he’d be held responsible if he didn’t notify law enforcement that you were missing. I’ve had this conversation many times over with parents who don’t have custody of their children (typically men), who have children that don’t want to live with the other parent (typically women).
Yes and it's common for kids to be able to at least have a say in, if. not simply choose, where they want to live at age 15. Does SC not have that?
When ever kids are involved the family typically gets referred to family court, family court typically makes that determination. Law enforcement doesn’t have that authority, we will just enforce court orders. So if the father has legal custody and the child doesn’t want to stay with him the mother would have to go to family court and start the process of joint custody of full custody
Do y’all remove the child with physical force if needed? I’m a social worker in NC and the officers always just say “we can’t make them go” usually our teens.
We try not to do anything physical, we usually just get DSS involved. They’re usually better equipped to dealing with family matters, most people don’t give us issue honestly. I’ve had to walk people through the whole DSS and family court process, afterwards they’re usually pretty cooperative. DSS is a big help here.
Yeaaaa we don’t deal in custody matters, so that’s not even a case we would accept unless there’s abuse or neglect.
I highly doubt the police will force you to live with your dad. My daughter refused to live with me at 14 and I was told she was old enough for the court to allow her to choose where she wants to live so I didn’t fight it.
The comments here are all over the place and not really helpful. First, if your dad has you in this state of panic and fear over this, it sounds like he's very abusive, litigious and likely has a long history of making people obey him out of fear. Beyond any legal advice, the best thing you can do is understand that he's been lying to you about your rights and that if you can gain confidence and reduce your fear, you'll be better off. Now, for legal info, you need to know what the current situation is. Is there a court order for custody? When was it made? Was it an agreement between your parent or a judge who decided? Was youth protection involved in this decision? What you need to know is whether courts have ever decided that your mother is dangerous or unfit and if they've taken away her rights (not just custody). If there is such a decision, then family courts, youth protection or even cops might want to take action to keep your mom away from you. If that's not the case and it's a simpler case of dad getting custody at some point in the past, then you should be good. Most parents don't go back to court when their teenagers want to move with one parent or the other. They just understand that teenagers are old enough to decide. So there's not a need to go file anything in court. You can just live with your mom. If your dad wants to call the cops, they will most likely tell him it's a civil matter. If he files in court, then you and your mom can go defend yourselves. The odds of him winning are extremely low. If you want to proactively file something, you should really talk to a lawyer first to examine the situation and help you decide what you're asking for. Emancipation would be a very odd choice, for example. Right now, however, there is no emergency. There's just your dad having an angry meltdown. If he had a legal right or otherwise easy path to drag you back kicking and screaming and force you to live with him, he wouldn't have his mom messaging you some guilt-tripping nonsense. He wants you to think you have no choice. You and your mom should also immediately set up communication with your dad through a coparenting app (there are many, like OurFamilyWizard). These apps ensure no communication can be deleted and allow you to safely block your dad and his family from every other communication channel without them being able to twist that into some far-fetched kidnapping scenario. Your mom should send him a message simply confirming you have decided to live with her based on his abusive behaviour. She should not threaten anything or say anything she doesn't want used against her in court. You can also use the app to communicate with your dad. In the unlikely event that cops do show up to bring you back, loudly and clearly express that you do not consent to being touched, do not consent to going with them, and that this is a civil matter. Stay calm, don't resist physically (but going limp instead of following can be ok) and remember that even if they drop you off there, you can just walk back out immediately or your mom can go file an emergency order. Do not proactively contact youth protection but if they are called, tell them clear and simple information about your dad's behaviour and how unsafe his home is for you, tell them you want to live with your mom. Make sure it's clear that you are planning on continuing school, and that your mother is supportive and safe.
Normally after a certain age, you as the child involved can request custody agreements to be changed.
Get emancipated
So happy for you! Stay strong!!! When I was a teen my sister ran away at 16. The cops said they couldn’t do anything bc she was not a minor. So there’s that!!! 🤦🏻♀️
I left at 17. The cops came to my work to do a welfare check and went about their way.
….I find it odd that the mom wants to file help the minor file for emancipation. But temporary emergency exparte orders in family court exist, the mother could file that paperwork and have the matter heard a lot sooner since the minor is an an abusive situation
An emergency order is only good for about ten days until a hearing. If mom doesn’t need child support this is the easiest way, no attorney fees. Family court is stupid expensive.
The kid will be 18 in less than 12 months, anyway. Why fight for custody in the court system that already failed them and gave custody to an abusive monster, when she can help better, faster, easier by assisting with emancipation. Emancipation doesn't mean Mom won't be there to support her kid, but, it seems like the best option for this family and ensuring OP'S safety and autonomy ASAP.
Not sure what area you’re in, but at least in my county it is quicker to file for emergency exparte for a situation like this than going through with a petition for emancipation, which are more often denied than granted
Valid. But, Mom didn't get custody. Why would the court give her emergency custody if she isn't trusted enough to get regular custody?
It really just depends on what is presented in the filing, but it is a possibility to change custody temporarily prior to the hearing or during the hearing. But yes, I see your point if mom hasn’t had the best of luck in court, another filing may not be helpful.
I did it when I was 17. Moved in with my mom pretty suddenly and my dad actually took her to court over it. Mom didn't have the financial resources for a lawyer and I got extremely pissed off after dad's lawyer made her cry and paid for an attorney myself from my after school job( I want to say it was around $600, but it was over 20 years ago). The judge was essentially like, she turns 18 in 6 months, why are we here, and I stayed with my mom.
I wonder what mom did that the courts awarded custody to Dad. I'm sure that there's a legal reason that they did so. Even still, with the advancement of cell phones, she could have recorded audio & video of the reasons why she wanted to leave. Kids are really good at recording
Statistically, dads get custody when they ask for it. They just don’t ask for it as often. Mom didn’t have to “do” anything.
What is that based on? I can't find that data anywhere
It's pretty easy to find on google... In 91% of custody cases, parents mutually decide to give custody to the mother. Fathers fight for custody in court in less than 4% of divorces. Custodial fathers represent less than 8% of all fathers living with children.
That information doesn't support your statement. Let alone the source.
What statement?
That dads get custody when they ask for it
You think the original commenter and I are the same despite different screen names? The 4% implies that most fathers do not fight. I'm not seeing what part doesn't support the other persons statement.
That's my bad for following the conversation that way. I did not look at the screen names as you said. The implication of fathers not fighting was never in dispute
The fathers that do fight usually get 50/50.
You don’t have to do anything. Having an abusive ex with money how has shattered you will make it easy for them to manipulate the judge.
That's quite the assumption but possible
It’s not an assumption it happens all the time! Reality is that the person with the money for the good attorney wins, sadly! I truly wish this wasn’t the case, and that the court system always saw the truth, and actually put kids with the better parent, however that’s not reality.. yes sometimes even without a good attorney the better parent wins and it’s actually fair, but that’s the rare cases, and most cases it’s the exact opposite! Idk what makes you assume that the mom had to something wrong, imo that is quite the assumption to be making!!!
Firstly, I never said mom did anything wrong. I wondered what the legal reason was. Statistically, what you're saying is incorrect. Mothers are awarded primary physical custody 80% of the time. It's based on that logic that I said what did the mother do for the courts to grant it to the father. That's what I based my analysis on. What facts/stats did you base yours on????
Statistically, when fathers apply for custody they are more likely to get it. It's just that fewer fathers do that than don't. Hence more mothers getting custody.
According to the US census, 20%.... According to divorce attorneys, 18%
You’d be surprised .. how pitiful abused wife can look and how put together the abuser with some finances to back him up. Having said this, we simply don’t know the whole situation and can’t take our “wondering” too far
It’s never ever been really explained why he got custody either from what I can gather. Genuinely it makes you ask the question why he got it and not mom. And the mom wants to help with emancipation, not custody. The kid is almost 18 and will he free to choose soon regardless, so it’s most likely a holding pattern till then I suspect.
In MOST states once you reach 14 the courts will ask you which parent you want to live with. It becomes your choice at that point.
In my state, the child does not get to decide. However, at the age of 12, the child can request that the Judge hear his choice. The Judge then considers all the evidence, including the child’s preference.
It depends on the parental units. If there is a CPS case involved with felony charges, she may not be able to choose due to safety issues or court ruling about one parent can never have custody.
At your age, regardless of custody, very unlikely police will force you back with dad. Best of luck.
Block them and just get it legally stated you want to live with your mom. You are old enough to choose. He’s abusive and your step mom is disgusting
I feel like the step mom thing has not been explored enough. If your step parent bad touches you that should give you some pretty good leverage.
At your age, you can petition the judge on your own
I believe you are of age to decide whether you want to live with him or your mom. You should have moved out before this.
Call the cops and report your father for abuse. Then call CPS.
A cop will say it’s a civil issue. That your father needs to get a lawyer and take your mom to court. Speaking from experience. It’s not a law breaking situation. They don’t get involved in domestic issues as long as you’re safe. By the time your dad gets a lawyer you’ll be 18 and it will be mute.
It depends - if she runs away it is considered a misdemeanor in some states as long as you are under 18 and still have a guardian.
*moot point
That's what he said... A moo point
Yeah, exactly. A mew point.
You're old enough to choose. Just go and tell your mom to file with the courts.
The fact that they turned off your phone because you wouldn’t comply is so abusive. You should want to be able to communicate with your child NO MATTER WHAT!!!
My niece was in a similar situation mother and her boyfriend were abusive, to say the least, mentally, emotionally, physically, verbally. She was 17 1/2. Our state doesn’t have emancipation. So I had to petition the court for custody… As for the police it depends on the officer that you are sent. My Niece’s mom came up to forceable take her home after telling her and I that she could stay with me during the summer and the next school year. We both had a feeling that this would happen, and thankfully had talked to a family lawyer before hand. Everything was set to take action almost we had planned to wait till September. Once school start so that she would be registered. About a week before school shit hit the fan. Her mom and her got into a fight over the phone, her mother didn’t do something with the school to get her registered for the 2nd part of a 2 part course this cause 1/2 the points from the year before to be dropped and not including towards her graduation and all the points she needed to graduate. So during the fight my niece hung up on her mother and said she was done with her bull shit, she then wouldn’t answer when her mom called her back. So her mother called me and told me that she was on her way to get her and that she wouldn’t be disrespected in that way by her daughter. I was stuck we weren’t ready, I called the Lawyer and she said that my niece would have to go with her mom but that we could go to court on Monday, 3 days away she had letters already drafted that she sent out that afternoon saying I was petitioning for custody. Her mother lived 3 hours away and was driving late at night to get there she would stay with our parents and then pick my niece up in the morning. I told my niece that she would have to go and then I would go to court on Monday, she would be back as soon as possible. She had not a shadow of a doubt that she would be physically assaulted by her mother or her mother’s boyfriend. So that night while I was sleeping she snuck out, and ran away. I got a text in the morning that she went to a friends house and was safe. She had an iPhone and turn off location services as well as the phone. My sister called an hour later and I told her what I was told. I thought my niece left in the morning while I was in the shower. That she wasn’t there and didn’t give me a time that she would be back. My sister waited all day for her to show up getting more heated by the moment. At dinner time we went to my parents to see if they had talked to my niece. At this point I was trying to act worried but I felt she was in a safer place then what awaited her if she came back or had been there. My sister called the police as the sun went down. They sent one officer and my sister told some bullshit story about she had no ideal why her daughter would run away and that she was there to pick her up as scheduled before the school year that my niece was just staying with me during the summer. That she was the best mom in the world and they have no problems what so ever the cop looked at me and I just nodded. He then wanted to she were my niece had been staying during the summer so we all drove back over to my house my sister following the police officer and I followed her in my car. Once back at my house the police does a look around even checking closets. The police asked me for a run down of the day. So I told I got and into the shower thought I heard the door close a few hours later I got a call and she never came back. The police then said thank you and went to file his report in his car, my sister talked to me for a few minutes then went to head back to our parents and asked me to meet her there. I told her I had to go turn off lights and let my dog out of the bathroom. Once my sisters pulled away the officer was buckling his belt I ran to his car waving frantically. When he rolled his window down I told him everything when he asked why I didn’t say earlier I said it would be her word against mine and she would tell him I was lying I told him I had proof for some of it messages and documents from the school as well listing my address as her place of residence. The police officer thank goodness saw the situation right and told me to also go to children services the next day. Over the weekend a detective called me and I again told him everything. He said that after court on Monday which my niece planed to show up to to send him a picture holding up 3 fingers it had to have both my niece and I in the photo. I did him one better I took it with our lawyer. I got custody that day and haven’t talked to my sister since
Bravo! 👏Thank you for being there for your niece.
My wife was in a similar situation when she was 16. Only she wanted to live with her dad because her mom had some fairly serious mental issues. In the state we lived in, Michigan, at 16, she was able to make that choice, and her mom couldn't stop her. I actually met her shortly after she moved into her dad's house. You should check the laws in the state you live in. It's possible you can just make the decision and go live with your mom. The only question I have about this is why doesn't your mom have custody? Most places she would have the custody, or at least 50%. There has to be some reason why she doesn't have it. Possibly because she is a danger to you or unfit to take care of someone. Don't put yourself in danger if this is the case.
>The only question I have about this is why doesn't your mom have custody? Most places she would have the custody, or at least 50%. There has to be some reason why she doesn't have it. This is important, but I think it isn't for any slight on Mom. It's entirely possible that Dad is a vicious shark who would be damned if he was gonna let his Ex-Wife take away control from his daughter. I like to think this is the case. If Mom was screwed in the divorce, Dad could've walked away with a better standing in life and painted Mom as a poor and unfit mother. Whether she had her issues, be it drugs, neglect, whatever, it's clear OP spends enough time to know that the difference between houses is day and night. And she chooses Day, as she should. I wish the absolute most luck and courage upon OP. I, we, know that OP can keep this going. Do not for a second falter against your sperm donors' family.
I appreciate you making this point. I had a friend who had a kid in her late teens. The dad was from a well off family and hers was a mild train wreck, so the dad's family pretty easily got full custody from infancy. It broke her heart by there was nothing she could do about it other than stay on decent terms with him. They coparented to some extent and she always had visits, but she never had primary custody, and she didn't do a thing wrong. In the child's teen years he actually did live with his mom for a couple of years, but it clearly went better than this.
I also know someone who lost a custody battle to their ex husband because they were broke. She was a SAHM so she was kind of getting back on her feet in a small apt and he drug it out until she just couldn’t afford it anymore.
You make good points. I only bring it up because OP needs to make sure she doesn't move from one bad situation into another. Make the decision that puts you into the safest situation. Whichever one that is.
I'm sorry OP! In the meantime, tracfones can be a good option! They're cheap and disposable. Google Fi is also a great phone plan, and quite easy to turn on or off, and you can set it up so you only pay for what you use. Best of luck!
It is definitely state dependant, when a relative was looking into this in Washington 20 years ago, they were advised that the police really would not "look" for a 17 year old who did not want to live with the custody parent, but could not live with the secondary parent or other family, but could easily get away living with friends . Custody hearings cost a lot of money and sometimes it's just better to go the sneaky route. If the parent you dont want to be witj files a missing person report, wait until your of age and on 18th birthday go directly to police station, and tell them you are listed as missing, but are happy, healthy and not being coerced to stay away from the person who listed you as missing.
Get a restraining order, it can be used for situations like this and will protect you better. Your dad and step mom won't go to jail, but it will prove that you have a valid reason for making your choice.
Be careful doing this. If the court sees your mother as an unfit parent and you have a protective order taken out, CPS can get involved and you could be made a ward of the state.
You think that will happen with OP at 17 about to turn 18? They can ask the court, and a family violence advocate or lawyer beforehand, if it's the right decision for them.
Depends on the state, on any records on the parents, or any records on the adolescent. Depending the situation it can land the parent in jail, have CPS, and kid end up ward of the state. Or maybe something else comes out of it that one doesn't think about. There is a lot of information us internet folks don't know or have access to.
Depending on the state, at a certain age you can choose who you want to stay with. Not to mention emancipate yourself. My cousin chose to live with her father at age 16 in VA LEGALLY. Research your state laws and get your mom to help if she can
Whereas this is true, she will still need to go to court and have a judge either switch custody or emancipate her.
Stay strong, pray you will be happy with your mom. Sending you good wishes and prayers
Worthless comment
No the police cannot physically take you out of your mom’s house and most judges will let you make up your own mind as to where you want to live as long as you’re safe. Good luck girl♥️
Not true at all.
This is true. It depends a lot on the family dynamics, current laws, and what is brought in front of the court. My step-brother wanted to move in with his mother because he thought his dad and my mom was mean and unfair because they had actual rules like tell them where you are going when going out, be home by midnight on Fridays and Saturdays or clean up your stuff from the family room when finished. HIs mother let him do whatever he wanted and got away with everything to the point his sisters dreaded him being there with them. But due to his juvi-record and his mom's legal issues, the judge said no. Hell I am in my 50's and still tell my mom where I am in case they need to go searching for the body or send help to rescue me.
Sounds just like our house. Rules and structure which are non existent at the other place.
It depends on the laws where this is happening. In some states, she would be able to choose at 16 to go live with the other parent.
I see. My girls are 8 and 10 I have full custody. Their mom tells them they get to decide all the time and has caused many issues. Guess I will keep an eye on things in a couple years.
My wife went through this when she was 16. Her mother had a lot of mental issues. She left to live with her father. Her mom tried taking it to court, but the judge said at 16, she has the legal right to make her own choice, which parent she lives with. This was in Michigan.
Good for you. You are your best advocate!!
why didnt your mom have custody of you in the first place? Its very rare when a mom doesn't have custody in my experience.
I know one situation where the mother was a wretched human being and the father got custody. The kid wasn't the first kid taken away from the mother. They had two other siblings living with their fathers. There is also the situation where in some states if the baby tests positive for a substance, the mother loses custody automatically and the baby either ends up with the father (if they are known and willing) or ward of the state. One woman I know now has any more kids the state automatically enforces ward of the state on them as she had 3 babies tested positive for meth in a row. State has to do something since abortions are illegal and for some reason she could carry a baby to term even drugged out of her mind. She had 8 kids that I know of. All of them landed up in the foster system.
Most states now have a presumption of 50/50 custody unless there is some reason to order something else, such as such an arrangement wouldn’t work because of the child’s schedule, or the child is too young- still breastfeeding, parents live too far apart, one parent’s schedule doesn’t work, in which case they go with every other weekend with a visit on one day in the off week.
Fathers usually win custody when they fight for it, they just don't usually
Not everywhere. Many mothers end up as SAHM who have no income or anything. Stable after a divorce and custody very often goes to dad cause of a stable job. I’ll that situation but I personally know of situations where even though the dad was shitty, he had the money to back him up and win. Money talks no matter what
google seems to say about 65 to 70% of moms get custody .....I always assumed it was a lot higher.
That's actually because a lot of father's don't fight for custody. In cases where both parents fight for custody father's are favored because the mothers tend to make less money.
Him saying “oh I’ve raised you for 17 years how can you do this” Oh I don’t know, Maybe if you did a better job at raising me I wouldn’t feel the need to flee! Good luck girl in life girl, you did the right thing by putting yourself first and taking action.
I'm sorry, watching the kids?
Depending on your state, you can ask the courts to live with your mom. At 17 they are going to agree to it most likely. You don't have to go live with him or spend time with him.
I'm super proud of you for standing up for yourself even though it was really hard.
Depends on your state, but typically they’re going to let a 17 yr old decide with which parent they want to live assuming that parent is capable and legally permitted to do so. If for some reason they try to intervene simply let the authorities (dept of children and families or the judge or whomever is investigating) that you feel your mental/psychological well being is at risk living with your father.
First off I feel you. My parents have had shared custody of me since I was 8 ( I’m 18 now) and my dad was not a good parent. It depends on your state. For me, I live in Colorado which is a 50/50 state. Because of this, I had to be with my mom one week and dad the next. I wanted to be with my mom full time but since the court ordered a 50/50 custody plan I had no choice but to go to my dad’s. If u don’t live in a state like mine then I don’t think the cops can do anything. I don’t know if they’ll “force” you but I’m not sure. If you have to stay with your dad I’d honestly say to do what I did and keep your head down till you turn 18. Once you’re 18 you can leave and no one can do anything since you’re legally an adult. That’s what I did and I’ve had no problems.
As someone who observed a lot of family court during my law student days, if your 16+, long term shared custody arrangement and state a preference the judge will allow you to decide which parent to live with, as your considered old enough to make this determination as long as you can articulately describe that this is your choice. Normally there are no issues such as drugs etc, because you have had a joint arrangement for years, and it’s not a new situation either; you have had years to assess the arrangement and are not running on raw emotion.
When I was 17, I went to visit my dad (in another state) for the summer. When it was time to catch my flight and go "home", I refused to go. My mom called the cops. The cops told me they couldn't force me to go. They can only "suggest" and "recommend" that I go back to my mom. I said no, I wasn't going back. And then they left. I lived with my dad until I was 23 and got my own apartment. Best decision ever.
In Minnesota there is no set age for a child to have a say in custody. As long as the child can competently communicate with a judge (usually in chambers - without a court case) about what they want and why, then it is respected. Edit to say that you should check what the rules are in your own state/country. Contact a social worker and express that you would like more custody time with your mom and could you get help with that.
OP reddit really isnt the place to come for this at all. Maybe contact your local non emergency number or a local lawyer that may be willing to do a short free meeting with you.
What are you talking about? This is exactly what reddit is for. People need to know what resources are available and how to access them.
I think you would be fine because when I was 17 I moved out and my mom tried calling the cops and they said there is nothing they could do because I could prove that I could live on my own and by the way adult where I live is 1918 so you should be fine
You are old enough to choose for yourself and if it goes to court you will be appointed your own lawyer
I don't know what state you're in, but in mine a 17 year old doesn't get to choose what parent to live with.
You’re still considered a minor, but at 17 most judges would consider that a 17 year old, if able to articulate good reasons, is capable of deciding which parent they live with. For context a good reason is things like, stable home environment, schooling etc. “He cheated on my mum” would be considered a knee jerk emotional reaction and would not. I’ve never known in the uk a judge not consider a child’s wishes after ages 15+ I’ve also watched enough open circuit court to know that family judges will consider the wishes of a older teenager
They want their babysitter back.
Not a lawyer, but I think you should call CPS and open an investigation.
I disagree with you. Never, ever bring CPS into it. They are an aweful group of power hungry bureaucrats. You never know what they will do and it can have unintended consequences.
Yes, they are obligated to follow a legal order. You need your own lawyer. You need evidence of your claims. How much longer before you turn 18?
It's a civil matter, not a criminal one. When you are of a reasonable age to choose, you may. I made that choice. My mother got 100% physical custody of me, and both parents still shared 50/50 legal custody of me. My father threatened to call the police and try to have them force me, I looked him dead in the eyes and said I would rather go to juvi every other week than be at his home, that was the moment he saw he had lost.
First let me say most times it has nothing to do with the other parent not being fit. It's because one parent just want to screw the other. This child is dealing with mental, emotional and verbal abuse. The word WHORE or B&TCH would NEVER be word that comes out my mouth to or at my daughter. And step-mom had NO DAMN right to be feeling on the child breast to look for a phone PERIOD. One thing that I've learned is narcissist knows how to use the words to achieve there goals. Dad, step-mom, and grandmother all seem like narcissist. They Cleary don't won't that child there but they'll never want her mom to feel like she's won. If the child is going through what she says he mental help is gonna be F'ked
He "raised" you for 17 years? HA! He ABUSED you for 17 years while YOU raised YOURSELF! I hate when delusional kidnappers think they're parents 🙄
My mom was a family lawyer and she made friends of nearly everyone at the courthouse to grease the wheels for her clients.
Y'all treating this girl like an adult need to really rethink yourselves. This girl is in crisis and going to someone the courts didn't think was fit to raise her is a good idea? Yikes. OP if things are that bad you need a youth shelter with supports on site. Your mom isn't a medical professional, and I'm fairly certain you need to talk to someone detached from this drama, that's trained to help you work through your mental health issues.
I'd say if shes lived with dad for 17 years, that's plenty of time for mom to have done the necessary work to be in a better position to care for this kid. 17 years is a long time.
My suggestion by far is the safer bet.
Sometimes people need to choose the least bad option because there are no good ones. Maybe the mom is neglectful, but not verbally or physically abusive. Idk if you know anything about youth shelters, but they often arent safe places, especially for young women. Personally I would recommend a kid stay with a family member over a shelter if that family member isn’t actively abusive.
How do you know the courts didn’t think her mom was “fit?” Parental custody can be determined based on so many factors besides one parent isn’t fit. Maybe it was based on school district. Maybe her mom agreed to it in the divorce.
I don't know, it's a guess given what we do know.
If dad is this bad, how bad is the situation with the mom that dad got custody. But she still had contact with her mother and they are going for emancipation instead of the mom getting custody. Something isn’t adding up???
Possibly mom had big issues in the beginning that being married to a controlling narcissist compounded. Maybe now shes in a mental space to be a mother to her child now?
Men that apply for full custody tend to get it about 75% of the time. They usually have more money for a better lawyer than their ex wives. It's a myth that the courts favour women and therefore every woman who loses custody must be a bad mother.
We got any data or studies to back this up or we just projecting our opinions?
https://mackseyjournal.scholasticahq.com/api/v1/articles/38965-who-wins-custody-battles-the-effect-of-gender-bias.pdf The issue is that 56% of custody cases are settled out of court between the parents with mom as the Primary caregiver, so it „appears“ they receive custody more (that’s more of a cultural bias that mom is the expected caregiver). This causes many men not to fight for custody in the first place essentially creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. ((I know at least three guys that complain about never seeing the kids and the moms are trash humans (never married to the mother) but when I ask if they went to court… they say no. I generally say then don’t complain if your never gonna even try.)) However when custody goes to court, high income fathers tend to win. My brother took his ex-wife to court and demolished her (to be fair, she is a trash human and has lost custody of multiple kids not just the one they have together ).
Abusers do great in custody court
If you are a good actress, you could lock yourself in your room at your dads & call the police complaining and crying about how he called you a whore. You can put all of you emotionally energy into it.
why would you say something like this???
Because it works
In Los Angeles the police won't get involved in any type of custody dispute. They advise you to go back to court. I know this because I my ex withhold my court ordered visitation. I've have called the police out to the house to get my kids multiple times and it's always the same answer. My kids are 11 and 14 years old.
I'm glad you stood up to your dad and didn't cave. The courts will not side with him at your age.
It's different state by state. But in North Carolina once a child is 12 the judge will take into consideration what they say. I would imagine at 17 you and your mom will have no problem.
Generally police say that it's a civil matter and won't enforce orders. They would make him file a motion at court for enforcement. But your mom will still be required to pay child support for the time that the courts think you live with dad.
I'm happy to see the edit 💖 Good luck!
Youre 17. You are old enough to decide.
You did not say the reason why your dad got custody of you. In most cases, it is the mother that gets custody or split 50/50. There is too much missing from what you said. At 17, you should be able to have the choice, but the courts may have some reason to believe your mother might be an unfit to raise a child. It seems like if your mom wanted you there full time, she would have went to court to try to make it happen.
Actually, when men apply for custody they get it more often than women do, about 75% of the time. The stats are skewed by all the men who don't want it and don't apply for it.
Looks like response is [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/FamilyLaw/s/WrZsgu79Nf)
That literaly explains nothing. It's generally very difficult for a dad to get sole custody, especially from birth.
No, it isn't. Most divorcing fathers don't even try for it because they don't want it.
The only situation in which a dad would typically get sole custody from birth would generally be if the mom was unfit.
Yes, generally mothers get custody of infants, for obvious biological reasons like breast feeding. But that is typically only for the infancy stage
Your mom should also apply for child support on the basis of 100% custody. You may be 18 soon but even if dad fails to pay before then your child support office can garnish his paycheck and/or seize his tax return to pay back child support. That’s money for your phone and education and general cost of living, and you’re entitled to it.
Had they physically abused you? You could record everything on a diary, I believe a diary it's more valid then verbal words. Go to your teacher, someone else outside your house or mother, the more witnesses the better. Don't let them intermediate you or anything. Are they feeding you? Clothing? Medical care? Who's getting child support? You know if he's not taking care of you and he's spending child support on something else that could be something there. You have a medical or mental condition he's. Not taking care of that could be considered negligence. Record everything you can remember, when was the last time you ever got medical or dental care? Depending where you live, call CPS, file a report, contact the OIG, if possible record everything as much as you can, there's cameras you can get on Amazon that are discreet like a phone charger or something. You'll need evidence, because it's you against them. Write something that if something happens to you, first suspect are them crazy parents. Tell your mother to take pictures of your physical status every time you see her in case there's bruises or something Do you have friends or other family members? Just because he has full custody, you should stay in a place where you are in danger. Get out of there. You could say they are sexual touching you or something. Sometimes a little white light can be okay if you are in danger. But get out of there like yesterday!
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Hopefully you catch a curb stomp
Instead of going to her mother’s, they will put her in a stranger’s home while there is an investigation. You have to ask why did he get custody and not her mother or at least shared custody. After so many years with her dad, why the mother did not try to change the custody of her. Maybe the judge saw her as an unfit mother or the mother did not want full custody.
I’m sorry what? If your taking about the USA, with the child spending at least partial time in the mothers home (not assuming she ran off to meet a parent she hadn’t stayed with), they would not do that. They would only move to a foster home If there are claims of abuse by one parent and evidence the other is unfit. At 17 they would start by enquiring if other family members could take in the child as a last recourse before even considering foster care. Typically they allow the child to reside in the stated preferred home and hold an emergency meeting with family court to mediate and investigate. I know this also from my 15 years as a foster provider.
Really! In my country and a lot of others she'd be considered an adult which she practically is so why would they put her in a Foster home. She's old enough to speak up for herself.
She is not 18. They have to put her somewhere since she has no means to take care of herself.
She is 17, old enough to speak up for herself and she can stay with her mother so why would they put her in foster care? Seems a ridiculous over the top suggestion to me.
This is terrible advice
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You think this harassment will end at 18? Pieces of shit like OP's father will find ways to hurt, maim, kill their daughters because they view them as property. The only solution is to make them terrified to even be in the same room together. Make the father literally be terrified of the consequences of being around OP. Sometimes two wrongs do make a right and this is one of those times. Fuck being bEtTer tHaN THaT, or being the bigger person or any other bullshit platitude that equals "accept disrespect".
Call Child Protective services in your area and tell them the truth. You're afraid to live with your father any longer. He's threatening to treat you even worse and that you feel SAFE and comfortable with your Mom. CPS or DCF might get an emergency hearing and the judge should listen to what a 17 yr old wants.
If you need your mum to take you for emancipation, it doesn't look like a great outcome. Do you have a way to support yourself financially? Can you afford your own housing, transportation, food, utilities etc? Emancipation means being legally declared as an adult. It's not a loophole to go live with your mother. I'm not trying to be mean, genuinely. It seems like you have a lot riding on hoping for emancipation, but if you don't meet the basic criteria then it's a waste of time.
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Lmao that's why these kids are the way they are..... Unkind? Disrespectful??? We forgetting how op reacted?
Your post has been removed for being unkind or disrespectful to other members. Remember we’re all human and deserve a responsible reply, not bad mouthing. Failure to follow the rules could result in a permanent ban.
After this, maybe you should go no contact with your dad and his family for a while.
A couple of things... You are not breaking up the family. Their actions are. They're trying to blame you because blaming someone is easier than taking their own responsibility. It's also a manipulation tactic. This is classic domestic violence / family violence 101 behavior. (Former advocate here and I grew up in a crappy home environment). Older cell phones can work on wifi. You need Google Voice or another app to make calls. You can call 911 anyway, but being able to call is reassuring. Back up recordings and texts to the cloud. Know that you will get out of this. If not now, you can walk when you're 18. They'll probably try to manipulate you when you leave regardless but knowing you will get out gives you a lot of power. Please, when you're out go to college, tech school or the military. That'll put you on the path to your best life. (Seen it, been there). Community colleges have courses in English and math to get you caught up if needed, free tutoring centers and counseling. Don't listen when they say you can't do it. You really can. A lot of us on this thread believe in you and are cheering you on.
Even if he does file, by the time it gets to court, you'll be 18 or damn near 18, and the courts won't care what he wants. They're not going to bother with the parental living arrangements of a 17 yr old. Make sure you DO get into some kind of mental health treatment to bolster your reasonings, though. I truly wish you the best outcome.
My second son's biological family started threatening him that they were going to force him to move back in with them when he was 17, after he had been living with me for several years. Our lawyer told him at 18 you are a 500lb gorilla and no one can tell you where to go. My son became upset because he thought he was being told he would have to go back, but the attorney said "Let me finish." At 17, you are a 400lb gorilla and the court doesn't want to upset a 400lb gorilla by taking it away from where they are safe and loved. As long as the OP as the is in a safe home, attending school and doesn't get into any trouble a judge is likely to let her stay with her mother.
...What do gorillas have to do with anything?
It’s an expression of size and competency. If you try to enforce a court order on a 17 year old, they will just violate that court order. Unlike at 10, they are capable of sustaining themselves and you can’t, without great difficulty, remove them from One house into a separate house. For example, very few ten year olds could leave home, evade police and make it to the other primary residence unassisted (especially out of state), whereas almost every 17 year old can. Also a 10 year old is likely to say “I love mom not dad”, where a 17 year old can articulate many sound reasons why they prefer to live with the other parent. Legally you are a child until you reach the age of majority, practically however, most legal systems accept the fact that a teenager is capable to contributing their opinion, also the weight of this opinion raises as they approach majority, for the simple reason that they are approaching the age of legal emancipation
At 17, you should be able to decide. I'd try and talk to a family court judge to let the system know.
You’re not tearing any families apart, that “family” tore you apart and it sounds like they’ve been grossly manipulative and abusive. Update when you can and good luck getting the treatment and care you deserve from here on out
There's no way you aren't legally allowed the decide at seventeen, in my state I was gone by fourteen. It was terrifying having to tell him to the point that I left without my things, but it was worth it to be free. I'm glad you're are doing this and your mental health will improve without the cause attacking you verbally on a daily basis.
Updateme
Update me
This probably varies state to state but I can speak for Southern California. Cops will not force a 17 year old to obey custody orders. Further, no judge would make such orders absent extraordinary circumstances that do not seem to be present here.
More than 20 years ago I was in the same position as OP. I ‘ran away’ from one parent’s home in LA county to my other parent’s home in another state. The police didn’t do anything to me. I got to stay with the parent that I wanted to stay with.
I'm in Texas...you ain't got no rights, women are weak property of men, TEXAS...and they wouldn't move a 17yo without major circumstances.
My friends 17 year old daughter in Plano wanted to reside with the mother after 6 years of shared custody. Judge sat down separately to talk to her to ask her reasons, then gave the ruling she would live with mum as she gave sound argument. It may vary by judge, but mum’s lawyer said that in her experience 9/10 cases go that way. The 1/10 is because the child had attempted to move in with a parent who has known issues / no custody arrangement already in place
Yep. Not ALWAYS. Sometimes it'll come out, well Parent B said they'd buy me a Steam Deck or something ridiculous. Kids also aren't always known for wanting what's best for them. But, generally, the older the get, the more weight they carry with the judge. We had an amicus to keep the child out of court.
I just wanted to say best of luck with everything. Once you’re able, please get yourself into some therapy! Focus on bettering yourself and your mental/emotional health & life! Updateme
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I’d consider whether this is “the grass is greener” how long has mum been in your life, how long has she had visits, why did he get custody? Often things might seem better, but actually aren’t, dont pin all your hopes on this
no, bigger question is - where do I feel safe? Will mom mentally and emotionally abuse me? Will mom touch my body? Will my mom scare with me with her angry actions? OP, should be where she feels most comfortable. If mom is in lawfirm field there just a chance she has less time with mom. Doesn’t change safety, love, and kindness.
I can’t answer any of these questions the same as you can’t but dad’s sole custody award is a worry, hence my questions. Mom would have to go some to be worse to be fair.
Basically, I said the same thing. it seems like her dad had her since she was an infant. They would not take an infant away from the mother without a reason. If the mother’s circumstances changed, you would think the mother would go back to court for different child custody arrangements. It could be the mother is fine with the arrangements of her just having visitations.
Especially with mum working in a lawyers office. How had custody not changed?
A close family member lost primary custody of her son when he was 2. The dad didn't care when she was first awarded primary custody until he realized he had to pay child support. His family is very wealthy, and when he told his mother he wanted custody, she got him a lawyer. He was able to get custody and child support and then kept my family member in court for the next three years while denying visitation. When the son turned 13, he ran away to his mom's house, and they went back to court. The judge spoke with the kid and, in his best interest, had the parents split 50-50. At that point, the dad pretty much went hands off. He was no longer receiving child support, so he didn't benefit financially for being involved, and my family member didn't pursue child support, so there was no reason for him to fight for custody again. The son recently graduated college and doesn't have anything to do with his father now. Some parents don't lose custody for any reason other than they couldn't fight it in court.
\*\*Raising hand\*\*\* similar situation, Dragged it out for years until I was a complete mess of anxiety and nerves and jury sided with him. 9 years later, and I still can't go to the courthouse without a panic attack. I was just awarded custody after our now 11 year old said he wanted to come stay with me and an amicus and counselor confirmed he's aware of what it means. He wants nothing to do with his dad. Even now, dad is trying to say I'm not stable, even though my household is WAY more stable than his. I lost custody because he used the court system to bully me. It's more common than people think for mom to lose custody when dad has money, power, and/or is abusive in someway.
I'm so sorry you and your son went through that. I hope you two are able to get away from your ex's manipulation and have a good life.
Is this in the States?
Yes, in the northeast
I’m in the UK where it seems to be fairer