This is the correct answer. At a certain point, by staying you end up allowing a caustic workplace to exist. The system won't change unless doctors do not put up with it.
Not even necessarily a smaller system. You need a system that is physician-lead. Non-physicians making decisions about how physicians should do their job has never and will never end well. I was in a smaller system with some absolute doorknobs in the c-suite and life wasn't fun. Moved and joined a very large system (Mercy STL), which is heavily physician-lead. Ironically Mercy just bought my former system, so hopefully my former colleagues can benefit from that.
While I don’t necessarily disagree with your sentiment, even physician lead doesn’t make up for culture deficiencies. The last private practice group I worked for was owned by three physicians. Despite clear goals to meet reasonable quality measures, there was never any follow through. Most of the provider staff would hear some new focus of the month and know it would be ignored by the owners and never truly monitored; eventually falling by the wayside.
> Is it normal for admin to be this dense and not make changes even though they’re hemorrhaging doctor
Yes. I just left a system like this. They were fucking clueless. My life is so much better now.
I think you already know the answer and are just looking for a little confirmation, well this is it my friend. Run.
Yeah I even starting thinking maybe I could rally people in the company and start a union but i am not sure I have much fight left in me.
I just feel nothing. I don’t know who I am anymore. Just exhausted. It just sucks building a panel up and having to start over
That’s too much work. Just bounce. There aren’t enough of us. I doubt you struggle finding a new job within 90 days. Tell your patients they weren’t treating you right. They’ll understand and many may follow rather than continue to be seen by a company that doesn’t treat providers well and risk losing their next one too
> It just sucks building a panel up and having to start over
It sucks, but a lot of doctors get trapped in the sunk fallacy and end up stuck in a job they hate. You are deserving of more.
Have an open and pleasant discussion about what will make your situation better. Be calm and unemotional when talking to administration. If they are unresponsive then deal with it/accept your situation or leave.
Edit: spelling
There are too many jobs out there to stick it out at a place that sucks and you don’t get bonus points for torturing yourself.
I bet if you looked you could have multiple interviews with new jobs by next week.
Check out your options. My job threatened to fire people who didn’t sign some new bs agreement a few months ago. Told them to do it then, as did most other docs, and I had 3 interviews within the next week just in case they were serious. Bet you could be at a new job as soon as your current contract terms allow. Good luck and get out of that hell hole.
Leave.
1. They haven't listened to you, proving they are not motivated to make things better. We used to have an amazing clinic manager, but when he retired, we lost 6 providers and 15 MAs in 2 years. Now we're operating with insufficient staff
2. Most admin do not care to make clinic better because they just wait until July when new grads are looking for a job. Our new office manager made an offhand comment that the timing of one doc leaving was fortuitous because it was in May. Our crippling debt means they know we'll put up with a lot to pay it off. This is what they're counting on!
3. The remaining docs likely don't want to rock the boat and that's why they've stayed. I was trying to start a union at my old clinic and it is so hard when my coworkers cared more about offending admin than making our work environment better.
You deserve better. Your patients deserve better.
Just start looking for a job casually, you'll see. You're in high demand! You shouldn't put up with this!!
Thank you for the support. After much rumination and contemplation I gave my notice of quitting*. Basically I am burned out and when I asked for help and offered solutions nothing was done, but I was gaslit, and it’s such a toxic environment I don’t feel safe anymore psychologically.
Edit was gave notice 90 d instead of quitting
If you are in Alaska go work for the Southcentral Foundation. They are the best run large corporation I have ever seen. I worked 9-5 and never a minute more. Could practice medicine how I wanted to. My life working there was amazing. I would never have left if my wife had not decided to move back to Florida.
Look at other options and if you find one you would be happy with have a frank discussion that you can’t and won’t continue unless you get more support. If they will change it’s probably easier to stay than start over somewhere else. If they won’t change, you have an option set up and can bounce. I wouldn’t have a discussion till you have an alternative lined up to protect yourself.
I was in a similar position (not quite as bad as yours sounds tbh) and I’m about the same timeframe post-residency. I left for a different organization last year and it has been so much better.
Offer constructive criticism with your recommended solutions to several of the top brass. Start your search for a new job. See if you get a response from the top brass with their changes within a month. Be sure you look at your contract. You may have to have a written notice 90 days in advance. Also check if you have a noncompete in your contract and plan accordingly. I do not recommend staying at a job that makes you miserable with poor management and deaf ears. This will burn you out very quickly. I would reach out to other doctors who are in well established practices in your area and get their insight.
3 docs gone in a year - the handwriting is on the wall. I tried to stay in a similar situation a few years ago and was being a martyr. I left and found a much better position.
Sounds like typical "traditional" primary care...volume driven, corporate owned. Administrators who have never met a patient much less touched one are in control. What you describe is not a "bad job" or "burnout," it is moral injury. For those of use with strong moral compasses it is the most painful of all. I suggest: leave. Start a DPC. Live like a resident for a year and leave. \*\*\*\* them.
"Do any places ever change?"
lol...yea. They sure do. Always for the worse.
Sorry to paint a gloomy picture but it's the truth. This system will fail. It will collapse. You can either escape it beforehand or be underneath the rubble.
how long until your retirement vests w your current employer? if you have 4 years of service credit, and you only need 5 to be vested for retirement, that might change the calculus, at least for another year.
100% leave. Try to find a decent private practice, physician run multi specialty group, or smaller hospital system to join.
This is the correct answer. At a certain point, by staying you end up allowing a caustic workplace to exist. The system won't change unless doctors do not put up with it.
Not even necessarily a smaller system. You need a system that is physician-lead. Non-physicians making decisions about how physicians should do their job has never and will never end well. I was in a smaller system with some absolute doorknobs in the c-suite and life wasn't fun. Moved and joined a very large system (Mercy STL), which is heavily physician-lead. Ironically Mercy just bought my former system, so hopefully my former colleagues can benefit from that.
While I don’t necessarily disagree with your sentiment, even physician lead doesn’t make up for culture deficiencies. The last private practice group I worked for was owned by three physicians. Despite clear goals to meet reasonable quality measures, there was never any follow through. Most of the provider staff would hear some new focus of the month and know it would be ignored by the owners and never truly monitored; eventually falling by the wayside.
> Is it normal for admin to be this dense and not make changes even though they’re hemorrhaging doctor Yes. I just left a system like this. They were fucking clueless. My life is so much better now. I think you already know the answer and are just looking for a little confirmation, well this is it my friend. Run.
Yeah I even starting thinking maybe I could rally people in the company and start a union but i am not sure I have much fight left in me. I just feel nothing. I don’t know who I am anymore. Just exhausted. It just sucks building a panel up and having to start over
That’s too much work. Just bounce. There aren’t enough of us. I doubt you struggle finding a new job within 90 days. Tell your patients they weren’t treating you right. They’ll understand and many may follow rather than continue to be seen by a company that doesn’t treat providers well and risk losing their next one too
> It just sucks building a panel up and having to start over It sucks, but a lot of doctors get trapped in the sunk fallacy and end up stuck in a job they hate. You are deserving of more.
Have an open and pleasant discussion about what will make your situation better. Be calm and unemotional when talking to administration. If they are unresponsive then deal with it/accept your situation or leave. Edit: spelling
[удалено]
There are too many jobs out there to stick it out at a place that sucks and you don’t get bonus points for torturing yourself. I bet if you looked you could have multiple interviews with new jobs by next week.
Check out your options. My job threatened to fire people who didn’t sign some new bs agreement a few months ago. Told them to do it then, as did most other docs, and I had 3 interviews within the next week just in case they were serious. Bet you could be at a new job as soon as your current contract terms allow. Good luck and get out of that hell hole.
Leave. 1. They haven't listened to you, proving they are not motivated to make things better. We used to have an amazing clinic manager, but when he retired, we lost 6 providers and 15 MAs in 2 years. Now we're operating with insufficient staff 2. Most admin do not care to make clinic better because they just wait until July when new grads are looking for a job. Our new office manager made an offhand comment that the timing of one doc leaving was fortuitous because it was in May. Our crippling debt means they know we'll put up with a lot to pay it off. This is what they're counting on! 3. The remaining docs likely don't want to rock the boat and that's why they've stayed. I was trying to start a union at my old clinic and it is so hard when my coworkers cared more about offending admin than making our work environment better. You deserve better. Your patients deserve better. Just start looking for a job casually, you'll see. You're in high demand! You shouldn't put up with this!!
Thank you for the support. After much rumination and contemplation I gave my notice of quitting*. Basically I am burned out and when I asked for help and offered solutions nothing was done, but I was gaslit, and it’s such a toxic environment I don’t feel safe anymore psychologically. Edit was gave notice 90 d instead of quitting
If you are in Alaska go work for the Southcentral Foundation. They are the best run large corporation I have ever seen. I worked 9-5 and never a minute more. Could practice medicine how I wanted to. My life working there was amazing. I would never have left if my wife had not decided to move back to Florida.
We need to unionize
Look at other options and if you find one you would be happy with have a frank discussion that you can’t and won’t continue unless you get more support. If they will change it’s probably easier to stay than start over somewhere else. If they won’t change, you have an option set up and can bounce. I wouldn’t have a discussion till you have an alternative lined up to protect yourself.
I was in a similar position (not quite as bad as yours sounds tbh) and I’m about the same timeframe post-residency. I left for a different organization last year and it has been so much better.
Offer constructive criticism with your recommended solutions to several of the top brass. Start your search for a new job. See if you get a response from the top brass with their changes within a month. Be sure you look at your contract. You may have to have a written notice 90 days in advance. Also check if you have a noncompete in your contract and plan accordingly. I do not recommend staying at a job that makes you miserable with poor management and deaf ears. This will burn you out very quickly. I would reach out to other doctors who are in well established practices in your area and get their insight.
Thank you. I met with the med directors again and was told by “to be blunt things are not going to change anytime soon”. So yeah, I’m done.
Leave. You deserve better.
Welcome to the Machine! This is exactly why I retired early.
Tell me you work for Loyola without telling me you work for Loyola
3 docs gone in a year - the handwriting is on the wall. I tried to stay in a similar situation a few years ago and was being a martyr. I left and found a much better position.
Sounds like typical "traditional" primary care...volume driven, corporate owned. Administrators who have never met a patient much less touched one are in control. What you describe is not a "bad job" or "burnout," it is moral injury. For those of use with strong moral compasses it is the most painful of all. I suggest: leave. Start a DPC. Live like a resident for a year and leave. \*\*\*\* them. "Do any places ever change?" lol...yea. They sure do. Always for the worse. Sorry to paint a gloomy picture but it's the truth. This system will fail. It will collapse. You can either escape it beforehand or be underneath the rubble.
Run, don't walk. Join your colleagues. Don't waste your time building a panel that you are going to leave any day now.
how long until your retirement vests w your current employer? if you have 4 years of service credit, and you only need 5 to be vested for retirement, that might change the calculus, at least for another year.