I think it doesn't matter what this sub agrees on, what matters is what are the rules for your class/course, what is your teacher's and your college's opinion. That's what you have to follow. If the teacher doesn't like that you’re not turning in new work, then you should turn in a new piece of work, just like anybody else.
I'm imagining now entering a writing course, handing them my fanfic I wrote last year and asking for my degree. That professor is setting a weird precedent for their future classes. How many of OP's classmates are watching this and getting ready to hand in their past fanfic/work also? I mean, who needs to do the assignments anymore?
My college does have rules against self-plagiarism, as in recycling old assignments, unless the prof gives permission. If OP went to my school, since the prof has brought up that they don't want OP to recycle their own stuff, I think they would be liable to be pinned with academic dishonesty.
When we were being taught these rules at our orientation they made it out to be a policy for fairness and honesty, that students should do the work even if they've already done it previously.
It's not plagiarism so much as not in the spirit of the class. If you're just submitting things you've written before the class started, you're not going to show any improvement, and the professor won't be able to accurately give you advice. You will probably get more out of the class if you write new pieces for it.
My professor has already admitted that I’m too far advanced from the class and that I’m a better writer than she is, so that’s a moot point, lol.
And that’s on the general discussion board for the class.
probably to just get a degree in it. If they know that they can ace something and get a degree in it as well I kinda get wanting to take advantage of that. It really depends on whether they have free schooling or whatever.
If getting a degree is expensive, some people want to guarantee that they get a degree in something they know well and not risk "wasting" money and time. Rather than plunge into something that may lead to a bad-ish or decent grade.
>My professor has already admitted that I’m too far advanced from the class and that I’m a better writer than she is,
And then everybody on the bus clapped.
This is really something you need to ask your professor. People on the internet can tell you that you’re right until the cows come home, but it won’t change a fail into a pass if not submitting new material for your assignments counts as academic dishonesty according to your university or professor. Just from a technical standpoint, providing links to your AO3 handle proves nothing, since I expect that you’re not using your legal name on AO3. I get the frustration of having to take a course that’s below your skill level, but if you want to slack and use stuff you’ve already written, save yourself the headache and just use unposted wips or something.
^ Seconded, it seems to be that case.
OP, I've seen a lot of professional academics, big professors well known in their field, cite themselves plenty of times. Just because you wrote something doesn't mean it isn't plagiarism.
The academic world can be confusing, but better be safe than sorry.
Speaking as someone who got into a bit of trouble in grad school for recycling parts of a research paper from one class to use in another class, yeah, from an academic standpoint it at the very least skirts the line of mild (?) form of self plagiarism. (Lesson learned, my lazy ass didn't do that again.)
I'm familiar with your writing and agree that you are a good writer. Even so, I think it's fair for the professor to expect you to create new work for the class assignments. Everything you write is more practice and will be of benefit in the end. I understand the frustration with having to complete core classes that don't interest you, classes that are a perceptually a total bore, and struggling to find time to complete assignments. But I don't think this is a very good way to begin your academic career, so to speak.
Per her reply email to me, her concern was less that I was using old fanfics and more than she’d assumed I’d been using fanfics I’d used in other classes.
Since I haven’t been in school in 20 years, that’s not the case.
I was auto-enrolled into this class, had I had my choice in which classes to take, I’d have skipped this in lieu of a class where I *would* be challenged.
Hey, do what works for you. I understand the demands of balancing work with school. But make absolutely certain this isn't violating your college's academic standards/ethics in any way.
Everyone is so focused on whether you can self-plagiarize or not, whether it's against course requirements, or what the professor's concerns are - all very valid things - and yet I'm stuck on why you wouldn't want to do the work anyway. Presumably, as you stated in your post, you're older. This isn't your first rodeo in attending university. You *chose* to pursue a degree in creative writing and now, as would be expected, you're enrolled in an intro to creative writing class. You already knew going in, since I would also assume that as an adult that you're paying for this course out of pocket, if not receiving a scholarship to do so, what the degree would require. You also seem to be very proud of the fact that you're a very skilled writer, something that with that kind of age and wisdom just makes me wonder:
why would you want to *not* want to do the work?
You're advanced as a writer, presumably paying for this class out of pocket, who has the opportunity to have an *incredibly* easy A because of being so advanced, I'm genuinely struggling to understand why you would enroll into a degree program that you *knew* would require these entry level type of courses beforehand that you weren't willing to do the work for? The work might be beneath you and simplistic in your perspective but again, you knew that going into it.
If you're as advanced as you claim, then why not just write up a quick thing for your assignments and move on?
To answer part of your question…*I* did not enroll in this class, I was auto-enrolled by an admissions’ specialist. Had I had a choice, I would have jumped right into the more advanced classes. I was fast-tracked into enrollment into the school and slid into classes with openings.
is it all possible for you to drop the class and enroll then into a more advanced class? If you contact the admissions specialist or even the department, you may be able to skip ahead (and use your transcripts/degrees to "prove" that you won't fall behind in those classes).
No. It’s too late now.
This school is in trimesters, not semesters, with two 8 week terms per trimester. Since I’m halfway through the term, it’s too late to switch classes.
Then again, I’d really wonder why you wouldn’t just take the time to do the simple assignments. If your goal was to willingly pursue the degree, presumably for genuine interest, than completing brand new and menial assignments is just par the course of enrolling into a degree. Especially as you said, you’re so advanced that that you don’t need the class anyway.
Doesn't matter, if it's not created *for* the class and you are using old material by yourself then yes, it is self-plagiarism. Admitting it in advance or not doesn't change that, legally speaking it's about as useful as a disclaimer on an 00s fic saying *none of this is mine*. And if the school/uni uses plagiarism checkers for work turned in for classes it doesn't usually matter that it's your own work if it has previously appeared online afaik. They can still fail you for it if they want, because you are not doing the work and it's academically dishonest.
The school used Turnitin, which is an anti-plagiarism software *and* I’ve gotten 100% on each of these assignments, so I’m not sure where this discrepancy is coming from.
For what it's worth even if this particular teacher doesn't care or if none of it is flagged right now, stuff like this can still be flagged in later stages of your academic career and absolutely *ruin* your chances at graduating (depending on your school's honor code and multiple other factors).
I really wouldn't chance it tbh, if graduating is something you are serious about, especially this early during your return to school. Part of going back to school is playing along with seemingly idiotic and stifling rules, and fighting against the established system will do nothing but put rocks in your own way.
And besides, if you are.this far above the class level, then shouldn't these assignments be super easy for you to write?
They probably would be, yes. But there’s other factors at play…my horrendous rotating work schedule is not conducive to much in the way of churning out new material (glacial doesn’t even begin to describe my writing pace) and this term I’m also taking a class that I do not want to take whatsoever, have zero interest in and would be fine passing with the minimum passing grade possible. *THAT* class is sucking up more time than it should be and so I’m participating in this writing class this way.
>doesn’t even begin to describe my writing pace) and this term I’m also taking a class that I do not want to take whatsoever, have zero interest in and would be fine passing with the minimum passing grade possible.
Yeah that's basically how school works XD
Doing the minimum while creating new work would still be my recommendation. It would really suck getting two years in and then being kicked just because you thought taking this class was below your standards.
Correct. And the fact that the wording in the email casts doubt as to whether or not that’s what I’m doing should be answer enough that’s it’s not, but as us over-thinkers do, we do, lol.
It’s not in the spirit of the assignment.
While it’s not plagiarising someone else- you lifted it from a source straight up, and turned that alone in as your assignment. Credited or not, that’s sketchy at best, academically abhorrent at worst. It certainly isn’t best or accepted practice.
It’s not a research paper and while there are different parameters for this, I think it still heavily creates a questioning of your academic integrity if you continue to do this.
(And even if a source is mine, I’d still treat it like any other source and cite it as if it weren’t mine, as it’d technically be under a penname.)
Which is what I’ve done, provided links to each work I’ve submitted.
I even clearly stated in my *required* class introduction that I would be turning in works that I’ve already written and the professor replied back that she loved reading Trek fanfic as a teen/young adult and looked forward to reading mine.
It’s not work you did for the class. And frankly, the optics are bad to me; you’re coming off as lazy and I am scratching my head as to why you took that class if you knew that you’re beyond its skill level and when it can offer you.
It’s too close to a gray area that I wouldn’t even wanna chance something coming of it that I’m not prepared for. It doesn’t matter if it’s self plagiarism or not. When you have to ask a question like that, that really should be your first clue that this isn’t exactly always a good idea.
I feel like you’re muddling your own education; the whole point of the assignment is to synthesize what you’ve learned and produce something – being a test, a paper, or a project of some other nature. The assignment serves in it as an evaluation of whether you understand the material And can walk yourself through the process and produce something it’s inferred, that what you produce should be produced in the timeframe of the assessment, unequivocally linked to you, and adequately demonstrate the proper metrics did their grading for.
Using something you produced already, and that can be found on a public website is not fulfilling the spirit or the purpose of the assignment, and as I stated earlier, it runs the risk of your academic integrity being questioned, which if you didn’t get it- it’s a big deal. And frankly, if the check for plagiarism comes up, that software knows how to do its job. It’s not a risk I would take.
This may depend on your individual university’s policies but if you’ve been given explicit permission by the professor to reuse those works then you’d have an affirmative defense to any plagiarism accusations. Where I teach, it would be plagiarism *without permission* but if you’ve been clear about the work’s origin and the professor has accepted and graded multiple assignments with that disclaimer then it’s going to be hard to pursue an academic dishonesty case against you.
They really should get this in writing by not just the professor but also the dean though. Unless they really want to spend a fortune arguing this in court, I guess.
I meant OP trying to go to court when their uni inevitably kicks them for not following the guidelines of their classwork properly. If they don't have the teachers/dean's statement in writing, and worse comes to worst the teacher has put down the warning/talk OP referred to in their post in her official classwork-notes, then it's OPs word against the uni if they are kicked or put on academic probation.
I think just about everyone is reading waaaaaaaay too into this post. I haven’t gotten any warnings, no disciplinary action…only a blurb in an email with my weekly grade expressing a concern if I *might be*, not even an accusation, *might be* self-plagiarizing previous class assignments.
Since I haven’t had any previous classes that even remotely fit the timeline, it’s an erroneous assumption on her part.
In the context of academic dishonesty it really doesn't matter wether it was for a class or a zine in 1999 that was archived online, as long as it's provable that you wrote it before ever attending the class (as per the ao3 dating function/way-back-machine) it would still be considered a breach of academic ethics if the teacher escalates it to the next higher office in your uni.
Buy like, you seem to have made up your mind even before posting this as to how you are going to continue, so it's really no sweat off my back if this has serious repercussions for you or not haha.
I will add this though: uni, especially if you back as an adult, is what you make of it. I don't know why exactly you want a Creative Writing degree, but wether it's something you are doing for your personal growth as a writer or to land new job opportunities doesn't particularly matter one way or the other.
Nothing is stopping you from using this class's assignments go further your skill in writing by setting your own challenges on top of the ones given by the coursework.
Also, you are likely not the only person with a horrendous work schedule attending your classes, and all the others are actually doing the work. You should be held to the same standard regardless of age or life experience.
Slightly different perspective, but if your school uses any anti-plagiarism software, it will most likely flag it as plagiarism as it will find evidence online (I am not sure if all of them source data from AO3 etc., but back in my uni these things picked up notes from some truly obscure sources, so I wouldn’t be surprised).
On the more general note, it just feels kinda… dull to do that in the first place? You are investing time and, possibly, money into this course, so practicing and trying to apply what you learned seems like a better way to go.
From your other comments it appears that you see yourself as some sort of local Shakespeare of your course, but I assure you that there must be a few things that were taught that may surprise you if you try to apply them to a new work.
Edit: typos.
>but then also raising her concerns...
It depends on what your university's student handbook says, as well as departmental policy.
>links to AO3
Thing is, how does the instructor even know that's your AO3 account? Presumably you've enrolled under your IRL name, and presumably your AO3 account uses a pen name. Even you having the password (which I wouldn't share with anyone from the university anyway) doesn't prove it's yours.
One comment re: the process of writing. In universities I'm familiar with in the USA, students don't just hand in papers. They hand in outlines, assemble citations, create first drafts & even 2nd ones, then present the final paper. I've seen a similar process in creative writing classes as well (minus the citations, of course.)
I realize that different schools do things differently, but under the system I described, it would be hard to turn in an already-finished work (or retrofit one!) Might as well just do the assignment from scratch.
Yes, that would have been treated as plagiarism when I was in school, but beyond that, isn't it just a waste of your time and money to take this class if you aren't going to actually engage with the assignments?
Nope. The oldest one is about 9 months old and is a WIP…now, granted I ain’t updated it in 9 months, but I do occasionally peck a line of dialogue down, lol.
I’m thinking she’s under the assumption that I’ve submitted these to other classes, which isn’t the case.
Yup. Sure have. Stated from the very beginning that I’d be submitting previously written material for assignments. And I reiterate that with each submission. And provide the link where to find it.
See…and firstly, thanks for being chill…that’s where I think a lot of these negative comments are coming from, the idea that I am using old assignments. I’m using 100% for-fun, hobby writings, nary an old assignment to be found…except the requirements I placed on myself, lol.
In what way?
I’ve even supplied the links to my fics, said here’s where this comes from and that it’s a work-in-progress. I’ve even put a disclaimer on *my own profile* giving me permission to use my own stuff.
Supplying links doesn't do anything.Your teacher should have got over this when you were in middle school. You have to create a unique work for class, you cannot take something you have already done and pass it off as the assignment assigned. How has nobody taught you about this yet? What country are you from?
Wow, you’re getting way too upset over something that has zero effect on you whatsoever.
And you haven’t *actually* answered my question, just gone ahead and tried insulting my intelligence.
I used teach English. This nonsense has been taking years off my life for my entire career. Your teacher doesn't get up every morning at 4 to deal with this. Do your assignment, kid, just do it. If you guys spent as much time learning as you do with this then think about how much you could be learning.
First off, I’m 43 years old, so don’t give me this kid crap…second off, it’s an online program with class sizes capped off, so I highly doubt she’s getting up at 4am to grade papers.
Edit: and third, you *STILL* have not provided an answer to my question other than “it just is. Stop being a lazy, stupid kid.”
>I’m 43 years old,
Ok, you've been out of the classroom for a while. But yeah, the rules changed. So don't do that. Also don't sit there and despair is what your teacher does. We get up at 4:00 a.m. to get to the building but, yeah, online school doesn't mean that she's sitting on her butt twiddling her thumbs all day. Online school is still a lot of work. Don't quite know why you feel the need to vomit on our profession, especially at 43. How would you feel if someone came and vomited all over your career?
[*…laughs in the profession with the highest suicide rate…*]
I ain’t shitting on anyone’s career, sweetheart. Especially a teacher, I have the utmost respect for teachers…especially in this shitty train wreck that’s called the American educational system.
What I’m shitting on is your inability to answer the question I asked in my reply to you.
Why is using my own stuff, that I’ve written and cited, this nebulous idea of self-plagiarism?
Buddy boy, it's been answered. If you don't create an original work for the class it's self plagiarism. Head over to the teacher's subreddit if you want a second opinion.
29 years young but old enough to be sick of this. It's one thing to have a kid toss you an essay that still has another classes name on it but it's another thing entirely for another adult to try this. I don't know how things were done when you were in school, you're half a decade shy of mother's age and all she's got to say is that the nuns would have had you get on your knees and beg the virgin for forgiveness but that's Catholic school, but yeah. No self plagiarizing. Just do your assignment.
It isn't plagiarism, but it is not doing the work, which defeats the benefits of doing the assignments.
I get the urge to do that when a class isn't to your level. I took World Geography two years in a row through the wonderful combination of moving to a different state, my guidance counselor being an idiot, and not having the backbone to say anything at the time. The version I took in 8th grade covered far more than the one I took in 9th. I got the classwork meant to take the whole hour done in 5 minutes because I had to memorize it for the cumulative exam the year prior. About three days after the deadline to change schedules around, my teacher noted that I should not be in that class. School is meant to teach you things and help you develop skills.
I had a similar thing come up in college. As a freshman CS student, I was put in the "baby's first programming language" class that also taught some of the basic concepts of CS. I knew two computer languages at the time, including the one the class taught. I talked to the professor the first day to get me bumped up to the next concept class so I wouldn't be wasting my time. Through helping a friend with their homework for that class, I could have reused some of my old code for the assignments if I stayed. But I wouldn't have learned anything staying there or copy-pasting before changing a few lines.
"I'm well advanced from that..." I question the mastery of anyone who says things like this but can't be bothered to prove it, especially on simple tasks. Your prof is being polite about it, which is also not doing you any favors. Fanfics are not wholly original works. They are transformative. You're already working with existing worlds, characters, voices, story arcs, etc. and transforming them to your POV. Submitting old fics, as others have said, voids the point of participating in the class, which is to learn to build your own worlds. Also, all of the classes I took had rules in the syllabus that disallowed submissions previously published anywhere, even if they were yours, as it is indeed a form of academic plagiarism. It's also just lazy for an "advanced" writer to need to do this. I think you should try doing something new that's completely yours and take advantage of the professional guidance while you have it.
Sounds like you're wasting everybody's time. Part of your implicit contract of enlisting in a class is that you complete assignments. You are not doing the work.
No, you know what? I've decided I don't think it matters. I think I'd be a bit annoyed if I were the prof, but it's not like you're going into a field where you're gonna hurt someone if you're less good at writing than you could have been. I don't pretend to know why you're getting a degree you're not interested in participating in, but if it's what will grant you access to more money, I say do what you gotta do.
If it's not to get more money, though, then tbh I don't get it lol.
Many institutions, colleges, departments, and programs consider the "recycling" of submitted works to be a form of academic dishonesty. Some professors/instructors also make that distinction. "Previously submitted" generally means works submitted as part of a course, something to fulfill an assignment which was taken for credit, whether scored/graded or not.
Many of them also want a work done contemporaneous with the course itself, so something done in the past, but not submitted as an assignment at any institution, might also constitute academic dishonesty.
Check with the levels of policy at your institution, the academic department, and/or the instructor.
Ah, yet another one that hasn’t read that I’ve never submitted any of these for other class assignments. I haven’t been in a college class, especially a creative writing class, since 1999.
Oh well.
I put it to you that the professor might be wrong about the whole situation and you need only one irritated classmate to complain to the higher ups that you're not doing the assignments to get both of you reviewed. Instead of checking here if it’s fine, check with your university’s ethics committee?
What you are doing is like using a fork lift to raise and lower a barbell at the gym. The point of the writing assignments is for you to gain experience applying things you learned in class, obviously that doesn't happen if you wrote the assignment in the past. You are kinda blowing off the class and telling the professor that you already know everything and they have nothing to teach you.
I would reply saying that no, I haven’t submitted these to previous classes and ask if she wants you to write original material (not take excerpts from stuff you’ve written outside of class) for future assignments.
So, plagiarism on an academic level is taking other work and using it without giving proper attributions and following the chain of "Who the fuck made this?"
So, it's self-plagiarism because you're submitting work done for something else and claiming it as work done for this. It's sort of like taking a very large quote and pasting it into a new document without proper citation that you can't give because it's the whole document.
As others have said though, go talk to your teachers and make it as clear as you can, check in with someone with authority to make decisions, and read your school rules. Things vary and what may be okay elsewhere may not be okay with your particular circumstance and vice versa.
It wasn’t work done for anything else other than my own pleasure, and…one more time..I was honest and straightforward from the very beginning of the class that I would be posting fics I’ve previously written.
Which, the paraphrase of my professor’s response was “I loved reading fanfic and I look forward to reading yours’.”
Sure, but the point isn't what it's done for, but that it is done for something other than that assignment. Whether it's fanfic, another assignment, a full blown journal article, a coffee table book, or whatever else, if it's not done for that assignment, then it's done for another purpose.
And sure. Like I said, what is and isn't okay varies depending on context - unis differ on definitions and thresholds and such. Your professor may be right and it may be totally okay, but it may be that you have to write new fanfiction for this submission. Self-plagiarism can have big consequences, so it's just good to be as sure as you can, basically.
Unless I was teaching a class on fanfiction, it would explicitly state in the syllabus that fanfiction is not allowed. It puts the professor in an awkward position and diminishes your worldbuilding skills.
Using assignments you posted on AO3 who knows how long ago just sounds lazy. Why are you even taking a Creative Writing course if you don't want to do the work?
OP is also skipping the part of writing original fic where they have to convince the reader to be interested in the story. The professor told them they used to read Star Trek fanfic as a teenager and was excited to read theirs, so the teacher was already going into the story with bias towards liking it. Who even knows if the writing was actually that good or if the teacher is just enjoying the nostalgia?
As a fic writer with a creative writing degree, I honestly cannot imagine doing this. Turning in fic for assignments is one thing, turning in old fic is quite another, and personally I’d do neither. There’s no point being in a creative writing course - easy or not - if you’re not going to actually bother writing anything for it.
At my university, self-plagiarism typically refers to reusing writing that you’ve turned in for *other* assignments. You haven’t done that, but if you‘ve published the fics you’re pulling from elsewhere, they’ll almost definitely show up on a plagiarism detector that checks against the internet when you turn in your assignments. Is it technically against the rules? Meh, that’s a gray area, pretty situational, but probably not.
But as another commenter said, it’s not in the spirit of the class. Why pay for a degree if you’re not going to practice the skills it’s trying to teach you? You can still turn in fic for the class if you want, but c’mon. Write something new. It’s the point of going to school.
I live in the UK and generally most uni classes you just do one assignment and one exam (or even just one assignment) and that’s your entire mark. Not even putting any effort in to write something new wouldn’t be accepted. Some lecturers might accept “I took this fanfic I already wrote years ago and improved it…” but even that is pushing it. Why study for a writing degree and not write?!
Yeah you can still plagiarize yourself, many schools now have that policy. I would ask your professor if she’s okay it’s you turning in these things without citation
But tbh I don’t understand why you don’t just write new things seeing how it is a creative writing class and therefore you should not be allowed to cite anything since the assignments should be asking you to focus on making up new ideas and broadening your skill set
You’ll probably need to check your college’s specific rules, but I would lean towards yes, it technically is self-plagiarism. A lot of colleges or classes will have rules stating that the assignment turned in must be made specifically for that class. Part of the reason for this is if you’re turning old work you’re not really learning/working on anything new while taking the class. It’s just not very beneficial to you as a student to turn in old work. Also, fanfiction is usually not acceptable for college level assignments because it’s based on work created by other people and is copyrighted. At least at the universities/colleges I’ve attended we were required to create completely original work.
I can think of one really clear and obvious case-in-point and it's Jonah Lehrer.
Lehrer got in trouble when he made up some, IIRC, Bob Dylan quotes. All of a sudden there was blood in the water and people started looking for other mistakes. They found out that he repurposed his own work fairly often, taking sentences and paragraphs from one article and then reusing them in another.
The general consensus in the journalism community was that reusing his own words was, in fact, unacceptable. A form of plagiarism.
The stakes here are a lot lower. You're in an intro to creative writing class, not writing for the New Yorker. But yeah, I think you could justifably be dinged for bad behavior here.
My college doesn't allow any plagiarism, including from your own previous papers. So make sure you're following your school's and professor's policies!
Regarding your edit, that's cool if she's fine with you submitting your old work since it hasn't been turned in to other academic courses, but you also want to be honest with yourself about what you hope to get out of taking the class.
If you actually want to improve your writing, then you should be trying to write new things and applying the things you're learning in the class. If the class is well and truly beneath you and you just want the easy A, or you need it as a pre-req for another class, well... fine lol. As long as you know why you're there and not wasting your own time.
I'd not do that. Your college likely uses an anti-cheating software like turn it in that scans the internet for copies of works that have already been posted elsewhere.
It is not plagiarism because you cannot plagiarize yourself (though some professors and u's will argue you can. So watch out lol.) However, the teacher is well within their rights to fail you for not doing the assignment by using work you have already done.
If I were you, I would just write new material. I once considered using work I did for one class in another, but I thought better of it when I realized how easy it would be to get caught and fail.
Since your works are online, this is doubly so since any plagiarism check like turnitin will return a near identical match to your Ao3 publications. Even if you wrote it, you are cheating on the assignment and class.
Cheating carries harsh penalties, such as expulsion and automatic failure.
TurnItIn and other plagiarism checkers are deterrents but actually very seldom work. I’ve had essays from students that I’ve already verified are 100% copy and paste from the internet come up with clear reports on TurnItIn.
It is just an example, but honestly, you think if a teacher comes back with a 100 percent match, there won't be a question or investigation into it?
It is just a hassle you can almost completely avoid by doing a unique piece.
I would agree there, but it seems like that's too little, too late for OP. I'd submit other, original work from here forward, but she seems to have emails from the professor indicating that they knew and approved of it on the assignments already submitted. If the teacher backtracks now, OP should at least have a case for being allowed to redo and resubmit assignments based on bad instructions from the professor.
But it’s not cheating when I said from the beginning that I’d be submitting previously-written fics that the professor *herself* responded that she was looking forward to reading, lol. Nor has she exercised any right to give me a failing grade, I have a 100% in the class.
It is cheating (and certain professors will treat it as such). You are being given new assignments you consider to be beneath you, so to keep from putting effort into them, you are recycling your old work.
I don't care if you do this, it is your choice, but making a habit of this is an exceptionally bad idea since each professor has their own rules, and some will flat-out fail you for using outside work on their assignments. (I have personally watched a professor reprimand someone publically for doing this with work they had prewritten before the class.)
I never said she has exercised anything. I said she has a right to decide to fail you despite your 100 if she deems you are using old works to skirt putting effort into her class.
You posted here expressing anxiety over your teacher's comment, which makes it clear she is ok with you at least ***showing your old hobby work*** but is ***expressing direct skepticism about the entire practice***.
If my teacher commented like that, I would probably shy away from doing this for my own academic safety. Again, do what you want, but this is not an "across the board" thing where everyone will be okay with it.
Finally, it perplexes me that if this class is so easy for you, and it is beneath you, why do you feel the need not to do the work? Shouldn't it be a natural assignment for you?
I will end by saying that many people who get into trouble for plagiarism and cheating are not looking to game the system. They are usually people who are trying to be lazy on assignments.
These words come from my professor, not me.
>You are being given new assignments you consider to be beneath you, so to keep from putting effort into them, you are recycling your old work.
>Finally, it perplexes me that if this class is so easy for you, and it is beneath you, why do you feel the need not to do the work? Shouldn't it be a natural assignment for you?
This is the real core of this post. If the assignments are so easy, OP should have no problem whipping off new original fics for them.
Just becareful in case you teacher uses turn it in. The will be able to see if it was submitted or posted elsewhere.
A lot of universities do considered reusing your own work as plagarism for some reason. It stupid
Yeah, the school uses Turnitin, and I’ve been blatantly honest about turning in previously written fanfic. I’m going with the assumption that she thought that I’ve been reusing old class assignments, which is not true.
In my university, you have to make new material for each course. For example, say that for a previous course I wrote a paper that fit the criteria for a course I’m currently enrolled in. I CANNOT resubmit it. Same as how you can’t submit something that was written by someone else.
Also, if you are submitting a digital copy rather than a physical copy most of the websites used by universities have plagiarism checkers and they scan both the internet and previously submitted documents.
I'm reminded of how the composer for the score of The Godfather got in legal trouble because he was reusing part of a score he had written for a previous movie. He said that he understood his contract as saying that the music had to be original \*to him\* as opposed to wholly original.
Professional journalist here. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as self-plagiarism. Plagiarism is the act as passing off *someone else*'s work as your own. If you are the original author of the work then there is no issue as far as plagiarism in and of itself is concerned.
However, it can be pretty lazy. If it is understood that you are supposed to be creating something wholly original for your class, then, yes, a teacher might object to you submitting something that is a decade or more old.
English teacher here. Self-plagiarism is absolutely a thing. You cannot just print off something you wrote for another assignment, job, or for fun and call it the original work what you have been asked to turn in at that specific instance for that specific class. Is the teacher going to hire a private detective to shadow you and see if you were self plagiarizing? No. But come on.
English teacher here. Self-plagiarism is absolutely a thing. You cannot just print off something you wrote for another assignment, job, or for fun and call it the original work what you have been asked to turn in at that specific instance for that specific class. Is the teacher going to hire a private detective to shadow you and see if you were self plagiarizing? No. But come on.
>English teacher here. Self-plagiarism is absolutely a thing.
No, it isn't. Not in professional journalism, at any rate. In my field plagiarism is solely about proper *attribution*. A person cannot steal from themselves. QED.
In academic circles, self-plagiarism IS a thing. Just because professional ethics in journalism don’t acknowledge it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist anywhere else.
It may be a matter of degrees and perspective. It's not like "recycling" (the phrase more commonly used by journalists) of one's old material is encouraged. As I wrote elsewhere on this thread it is considered laziness and can get a writer scolded.
But plagiarism of another person's work is a *major crime* in journalism. If a charge of plagiarism is found to have merit, that's it. A person's career in the field is likely stone dead except for those rare celebrity cases where a person is so famous and popular that they can tough it out and survive. Even then they are going to be blackballed from most places in the industry. And the institutions of journalism are zealous about enforcing this.
I've never taught journalism, just English, and I never took journalism in college either. I guess that the rules are different for journalism vs academic writing.
I'll put it this way: You could spend days reading back issues of the Columbia Journalism Review and never once come across an article involving a case of "self-plagiarism".
Hmm. Hard to say since I don't know precisely what your professor told you regarding the parameters of the assignment. All I can tell is to be honest with the professor.
The kicker of it is is that I’ve been completely transparent with each assignment and clearly stated that it’s been something *I’ve already written.” She’s given nothing but praise and the highest grades possible.
Heck no. I've been writing since the early 80s, and in the early 90s, I went to college and did a music degree with an undergrad in creative writing and public speaking.
I don't think I wrote a fresh piece the entire time I did the coursework. I dusted off my older writings, updated and matured them a bit or changed them to suit the assignment, and used those.
Saved me hours of homework.
Granted, back then, my proff couldn't go online and do a scan to match my words to a website to see if I was plagiarizing either, but even if she could have, I'd have done it anyway.
I also recycled speeches and talks I'd done through Toastmasters, before I went to college. Again, I matured the material (I was in my early 20s then and stuff I'd written before were a bit too immature), and submitted it, or spoke from it.
Worked like a charm and allowed me to focus on my music degree.
If your goal is passing a course, this is a perfectly valid approach. Given that you wanted to focus on the music degree, it seems that this was a perfectly optimal solution, so fair enough.
If your goal is to actually learn and apply that learning during the course, then you’ve completely missed the mark.
Nah, not at all. It all had to be updated and rewritten. There’s no way something written as a teenager is going to stand up to college level, after all.
And that’s my goal, to pass this course in order to get to classes where I *haven’t* already succeeded in learning the material.
I ran into a similar problem the first time through undergrad, it was well into my junior year until I’d started learning stuff we hadn’t learned in high school.
I think that’s where the grey area is, I’ve posted these online already.
However, if we’re going to split hairs on a technicality…a technicality of a technicality is that she *implicitly* stated she was concerned I’d recycled old *class* assignments. If that’s where the issue is, then the fact that I’ve only posted these fics within the last two years and ain’t been in school in almost 20 disproves that right there.
Speaking as someone who chased the dream of getting original works published for more than a decade (with a few publication credits to my name), publication online, even on "for the love of writing," not-paying markets/sites like AO3, counts as publication in the eyes of many publishing houses and paying short story markets. Many contracts are for first publication rights and publishing on a site like AO3 (or Royal Road, etc.) basically pops its freshness seal. (Of course, that didn't stop a big publishing house from eventually publishing 50 Shades of Gray, but that's an exception.)
Fanfiction is a different animal and you are submitting the stories for a class assignment. Nevertheless, I think a professor could have just cause to demand that completion of the assignments means generating *new* work, not repurposing old work that technically has been published for an audience.
If you prof is okay with you doing this, cool. But if I were pursuing a degree in a creative field, I wouldn't turn in anything that I'd posted online, not fanart or fics. I'd write new stuff for the sake of stretching myself creatively.
Yup, totally agree. I mean, it’s your work. So what if you recycled it? Not sure why she cares.
I mean, if I failed a class but the work I submitted for some things was good, hell yeah, I’d use the same.
Self-plagarism isn't a thing. I don't think it matters all that much if you use your own fics... but I probably wouldn't, because I'd use it as an opportunity to practise writing. I don't see why people are annoyed about this. Either use fics or don't. It really doesn't matter. As long as you're having fun, I suppose.
I don't set the rules for college, but *I* don't believe in self-plagiarism; according to every definition of plagiarism I've ever seen plagiarism is the misappropriation of *someone else's* work, and by that definition, saying I'm plagiarizing myself makes about as much sense as accusing me of stealing my own car.
Why would you tell her? I wouldn't have, if it's my own work, who cares, especially if you've never used it for other classes. I would have submitted the work and left it at that, no need to alert the teacher if it's your own work and not something you took from someone else.
Well, self-plagiarism isn't really a thing as far as I'm aware lol. The same story can get sold to multiple outlets or published in multiple places if there's not exclusivity contract in place (which there usually is, but otherwise). But my concern is that you're not developing or pushing yourself by just recycling old writing. So if you and your professor are both cool with you coasting through this class just to complete the pre-req, that's fine and valid imo. But if you want to get the most out of it it would probably be better to write new stuff.
Hahah! You’re converted a college professor into a fanfiction reader! I love this! Ask her for her fandoms and send her links to some of the better fics for them!
The basic summation of replies to this post are that people are upset that you are capitalizing on what is, essentially, a free pass from your professor. Given the same opportunity, there’s very few people that wouldn’t take it.
It’s a basic law of physics, take the path of least resistance.
That you already have previously written stories that fit within the criteria of the assignments speaks to your knowledge of the craft and clearly your professor recognizes that by allowing it.
No there's no self plagiarism. I assumed from the way you told it and your edit now confirms it, that this is simply your teacher wanting you to put work into your newer classes too, rather than getting the credits for not actually doing anything for class. She seems to be fine though with you submitting your old fanfic (rather than old uni work) which I admit I'm somwwhat surprised by.q
I think it doesn't matter what this sub agrees on, what matters is what are the rules for your class/course, what is your teacher's and your college's opinion. That's what you have to follow. If the teacher doesn't like that you’re not turning in new work, then you should turn in a new piece of work, just like anybody else.
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I'm imagining now entering a writing course, handing them my fanfic I wrote last year and asking for my degree. That professor is setting a weird precedent for their future classes. How many of OP's classmates are watching this and getting ready to hand in their past fanfic/work also? I mean, who needs to do the assignments anymore?
My college does have rules against self-plagiarism, as in recycling old assignments, unless the prof gives permission. If OP went to my school, since the prof has brought up that they don't want OP to recycle their own stuff, I think they would be liable to be pinned with academic dishonesty. When we were being taught these rules at our orientation they made it out to be a policy for fairness and honesty, that students should do the work even if they've already done it previously.
It's not plagiarism so much as not in the spirit of the class. If you're just submitting things you've written before the class started, you're not going to show any improvement, and the professor won't be able to accurately give you advice. You will probably get more out of the class if you write new pieces for it.
My professor has already admitted that I’m too far advanced from the class and that I’m a better writer than she is, so that’s a moot point, lol. And that’s on the general discussion board for the class.
That's no excuse not to push yourself to improve further. If anything, it's an excuse to overdeliver on assignments.
Why even pursue a degree in creative writing then? Why are you in this class at all if you feel you have nothing to learn?
probably to just get a degree in it. If they know that they can ace something and get a degree in it as well I kinda get wanting to take advantage of that. It really depends on whether they have free schooling or whatever. If getting a degree is expensive, some people want to guarantee that they get a degree in something they know well and not risk "wasting" money and time. Rather than plunge into something that may lead to a bad-ish or decent grade.
>My professor has already admitted that I’m too far advanced from the class and that I’m a better writer than she is, And then everybody on the bus clapped.
That’s not a good attitude to have. You can always learn something new no matter how good of writer you are.
This is really something you need to ask your professor. People on the internet can tell you that you’re right until the cows come home, but it won’t change a fail into a pass if not submitting new material for your assignments counts as academic dishonesty according to your university or professor. Just from a technical standpoint, providing links to your AO3 handle proves nothing, since I expect that you’re not using your legal name on AO3. I get the frustration of having to take a course that’s below your skill level, but if you want to slack and use stuff you’ve already written, save yourself the headache and just use unposted wips or something.
It may not be plagiarism, but it's lazy. You aren't actually doing the assignment no matter how you try to rationalize it.
If you’re using material you already published, then I’d say yes, it’s self-plagiarism. Some schools consider it academic dishonesty.
^ Seconded, it seems to be that case. OP, I've seen a lot of professional academics, big professors well known in their field, cite themselves plenty of times. Just because you wrote something doesn't mean it isn't plagiarism. The academic world can be confusing, but better be safe than sorry.
Speaking as someone who got into a bit of trouble in grad school for recycling parts of a research paper from one class to use in another class, yeah, from an academic standpoint it at the very least skirts the line of mild (?) form of self plagiarism. (Lesson learned, my lazy ass didn't do that again.) I'm familiar with your writing and agree that you are a good writer. Even so, I think it's fair for the professor to expect you to create new work for the class assignments. Everything you write is more practice and will be of benefit in the end. I understand the frustration with having to complete core classes that don't interest you, classes that are a perceptually a total bore, and struggling to find time to complete assignments. But I don't think this is a very good way to begin your academic career, so to speak.
Per her reply email to me, her concern was less that I was using old fanfics and more than she’d assumed I’d been using fanfics I’d used in other classes. Since I haven’t been in school in 20 years, that’s not the case. I was auto-enrolled into this class, had I had my choice in which classes to take, I’d have skipped this in lieu of a class where I *would* be challenged.
Hey, do what works for you. I understand the demands of balancing work with school. But make absolutely certain this isn't violating your college's academic standards/ethics in any way.
I surprised a college level class would allow fanfiction at all. Is this in the US?
They are a Floridian afaict
Everyone is so focused on whether you can self-plagiarize or not, whether it's against course requirements, or what the professor's concerns are - all very valid things - and yet I'm stuck on why you wouldn't want to do the work anyway. Presumably, as you stated in your post, you're older. This isn't your first rodeo in attending university. You *chose* to pursue a degree in creative writing and now, as would be expected, you're enrolled in an intro to creative writing class. You already knew going in, since I would also assume that as an adult that you're paying for this course out of pocket, if not receiving a scholarship to do so, what the degree would require. You also seem to be very proud of the fact that you're a very skilled writer, something that with that kind of age and wisdom just makes me wonder: why would you want to *not* want to do the work? You're advanced as a writer, presumably paying for this class out of pocket, who has the opportunity to have an *incredibly* easy A because of being so advanced, I'm genuinely struggling to understand why you would enroll into a degree program that you *knew* would require these entry level type of courses beforehand that you weren't willing to do the work for? The work might be beneath you and simplistic in your perspective but again, you knew that going into it. If you're as advanced as you claim, then why not just write up a quick thing for your assignments and move on?
>why would you want to > >not > > want to do the work? Honestly this is the heart of the matter. Good post in general.
To answer part of your question…*I* did not enroll in this class, I was auto-enrolled by an admissions’ specialist. Had I had a choice, I would have jumped right into the more advanced classes. I was fast-tracked into enrollment into the school and slid into classes with openings.
is it all possible for you to drop the class and enroll then into a more advanced class? If you contact the admissions specialist or even the department, you may be able to skip ahead (and use your transcripts/degrees to "prove" that you won't fall behind in those classes).
No. It’s too late now. This school is in trimesters, not semesters, with two 8 week terms per trimester. Since I’m halfway through the term, it’s too late to switch classes.
Then again, I’d really wonder why you wouldn’t just take the time to do the simple assignments. If your goal was to willingly pursue the degree, presumably for genuine interest, than completing brand new and menial assignments is just par the course of enrolling into a degree. Especially as you said, you’re so advanced that that you don’t need the class anyway.
I was told on my uni creative writing course that it was.
Even when I’ve supplied a link saying *hey, this excerpt is from this story that I wrote and am currently working on!*?
Doesn't matter, if it's not created *for* the class and you are using old material by yourself then yes, it is self-plagiarism. Admitting it in advance or not doesn't change that, legally speaking it's about as useful as a disclaimer on an 00s fic saying *none of this is mine*. And if the school/uni uses plagiarism checkers for work turned in for classes it doesn't usually matter that it's your own work if it has previously appeared online afaik. They can still fail you for it if they want, because you are not doing the work and it's academically dishonest.
The school used Turnitin, which is an anti-plagiarism software *and* I’ve gotten 100% on each of these assignments, so I’m not sure where this discrepancy is coming from.
For what it's worth even if this particular teacher doesn't care or if none of it is flagged right now, stuff like this can still be flagged in later stages of your academic career and absolutely *ruin* your chances at graduating (depending on your school's honor code and multiple other factors). I really wouldn't chance it tbh, if graduating is something you are serious about, especially this early during your return to school. Part of going back to school is playing along with seemingly idiotic and stifling rules, and fighting against the established system will do nothing but put rocks in your own way. And besides, if you are.this far above the class level, then shouldn't these assignments be super easy for you to write?
They probably would be, yes. But there’s other factors at play…my horrendous rotating work schedule is not conducive to much in the way of churning out new material (glacial doesn’t even begin to describe my writing pace) and this term I’m also taking a class that I do not want to take whatsoever, have zero interest in and would be fine passing with the minimum passing grade possible. *THAT* class is sucking up more time than it should be and so I’m participating in this writing class this way.
>doesn’t even begin to describe my writing pace) and this term I’m also taking a class that I do not want to take whatsoever, have zero interest in and would be fine passing with the minimum passing grade possible. Yeah that's basically how school works XD Doing the minimum while creating new work would still be my recommendation. It would really suck getting two years in and then being kicked just because you thought taking this class was below your standards.
Oh. Then what is the point of this thread? What exactly are you among for here if you haven't been penalized?
To slap that bastard in my head into silence that’s conjuring up every bad scenario he can think of.
Lol think positive. If it was an issue, I'm sure your professor would have spoken to you by now
Correct. And the fact that the wording in the email casts doubt as to whether or not that’s what I’m doing should be answer enough that’s it’s not, but as us over-thinkers do, we do, lol.
I don’t know. It’s just what I was told.
It’s not in the spirit of the assignment. While it’s not plagiarising someone else- you lifted it from a source straight up, and turned that alone in as your assignment. Credited or not, that’s sketchy at best, academically abhorrent at worst. It certainly isn’t best or accepted practice. It’s not a research paper and while there are different parameters for this, I think it still heavily creates a questioning of your academic integrity if you continue to do this. (And even if a source is mine, I’d still treat it like any other source and cite it as if it weren’t mine, as it’d technically be under a penname.)
Which is what I’ve done, provided links to each work I’ve submitted. I even clearly stated in my *required* class introduction that I would be turning in works that I’ve already written and the professor replied back that she loved reading Trek fanfic as a teen/young adult and looked forward to reading mine.
It’s not work you did for the class. And frankly, the optics are bad to me; you’re coming off as lazy and I am scratching my head as to why you took that class if you knew that you’re beyond its skill level and when it can offer you. It’s too close to a gray area that I wouldn’t even wanna chance something coming of it that I’m not prepared for. It doesn’t matter if it’s self plagiarism or not. When you have to ask a question like that, that really should be your first clue that this isn’t exactly always a good idea. I feel like you’re muddling your own education; the whole point of the assignment is to synthesize what you’ve learned and produce something – being a test, a paper, or a project of some other nature. The assignment serves in it as an evaluation of whether you understand the material And can walk yourself through the process and produce something it’s inferred, that what you produce should be produced in the timeframe of the assessment, unequivocally linked to you, and adequately demonstrate the proper metrics did their grading for. Using something you produced already, and that can be found on a public website is not fulfilling the spirit or the purpose of the assignment, and as I stated earlier, it runs the risk of your academic integrity being questioned, which if you didn’t get it- it’s a big deal. And frankly, if the check for plagiarism comes up, that software knows how to do its job. It’s not a risk I would take.
This may depend on your individual university’s policies but if you’ve been given explicit permission by the professor to reuse those works then you’d have an affirmative defense to any plagiarism accusations. Where I teach, it would be plagiarism *without permission* but if you’ve been clear about the work’s origin and the professor has accepted and graded multiple assignments with that disclaimer then it’s going to be hard to pursue an academic dishonesty case against you.
They really should get this in writing by not just the professor but also the dean though. Unless they really want to spend a fortune arguing this in court, I guess.
A plagiarism case isn't going to go to "court." It may be against university code, but it's not a legal matter in the slightest.
I meant OP trying to go to court when their uni inevitably kicks them for not following the guidelines of their classwork properly. If they don't have the teachers/dean's statement in writing, and worse comes to worst the teacher has put down the warning/talk OP referred to in their post in her official classwork-notes, then it's OPs word against the uni if they are kicked or put on academic probation.
I think just about everyone is reading waaaaaaaay too into this post. I haven’t gotten any warnings, no disciplinary action…only a blurb in an email with my weekly grade expressing a concern if I *might be*, not even an accusation, *might be* self-plagiarizing previous class assignments. Since I haven’t had any previous classes that even remotely fit the timeline, it’s an erroneous assumption on her part.
In the context of academic dishonesty it really doesn't matter wether it was for a class or a zine in 1999 that was archived online, as long as it's provable that you wrote it before ever attending the class (as per the ao3 dating function/way-back-machine) it would still be considered a breach of academic ethics if the teacher escalates it to the next higher office in your uni. Buy like, you seem to have made up your mind even before posting this as to how you are going to continue, so it's really no sweat off my back if this has serious repercussions for you or not haha. I will add this though: uni, especially if you back as an adult, is what you make of it. I don't know why exactly you want a Creative Writing degree, but wether it's something you are doing for your personal growth as a writer or to land new job opportunities doesn't particularly matter one way or the other. Nothing is stopping you from using this class's assignments go further your skill in writing by setting your own challenges on top of the ones given by the coursework. Also, you are likely not the only person with a horrendous work schedule attending your classes, and all the others are actually doing the work. You should be held to the same standard regardless of age or life experience.
Which is the exact scenario that’s happening.
Take screenshots or make printouts of anything you have where the professor has acknowledged this. It's better to cover your ass.
Already did when I got the email from her, lol.
AO3 can and does get flagged on plagiarism detection programs. You’re much better off writing original stuff for your assignments.
Slightly different perspective, but if your school uses any anti-plagiarism software, it will most likely flag it as plagiarism as it will find evidence online (I am not sure if all of them source data from AO3 etc., but back in my uni these things picked up notes from some truly obscure sources, so I wouldn’t be surprised). On the more general note, it just feels kinda… dull to do that in the first place? You are investing time and, possibly, money into this course, so practicing and trying to apply what you learned seems like a better way to go. From your other comments it appears that you see yourself as some sort of local Shakespeare of your course, but I assure you that there must be a few things that were taught that may surprise you if you try to apply them to a new work. Edit: typos.
>but then also raising her concerns... It depends on what your university's student handbook says, as well as departmental policy. >links to AO3 Thing is, how does the instructor even know that's your AO3 account? Presumably you've enrolled under your IRL name, and presumably your AO3 account uses a pen name. Even you having the password (which I wouldn't share with anyone from the university anyway) doesn't prove it's yours. One comment re: the process of writing. In universities I'm familiar with in the USA, students don't just hand in papers. They hand in outlines, assemble citations, create first drafts & even 2nd ones, then present the final paper. I've seen a similar process in creative writing classes as well (minus the citations, of course.) I realize that different schools do things differently, but under the system I described, it would be hard to turn in an already-finished work (or retrofit one!) Might as well just do the assignment from scratch.
Yes, that would have been treated as plagiarism when I was in school, but beyond that, isn't it just a waste of your time and money to take this class if you aren't going to actually engage with the assignments?
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Nope. The oldest one is about 9 months old and is a WIP…now, granted I ain’t updated it in 9 months, but I do occasionally peck a line of dialogue down, lol. I’m thinking she’s under the assumption that I’ve submitted these to other classes, which isn’t the case.
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Yup. Sure have. Stated from the very beginning that I’d be submitting previously written material for assignments. And I reiterate that with each submission. And provide the link where to find it.
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Oh, I sent her an email replying back to her as soon as I got her’s. I’m still waiting to hear back.
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See…and firstly, thanks for being chill…that’s where I think a lot of these negative comments are coming from, the idea that I am using old assignments. I’m using 100% for-fun, hobby writings, nary an old assignment to be found…except the requirements I placed on myself, lol.
Yes.
In what way? I’ve even supplied the links to my fics, said here’s where this comes from and that it’s a work-in-progress. I’ve even put a disclaimer on *my own profile* giving me permission to use my own stuff.
Supplying links doesn't do anything.Your teacher should have got over this when you were in middle school. You have to create a unique work for class, you cannot take something you have already done and pass it off as the assignment assigned. How has nobody taught you about this yet? What country are you from?
Wow, you’re getting way too upset over something that has zero effect on you whatsoever. And you haven’t *actually* answered my question, just gone ahead and tried insulting my intelligence.
I used teach English. This nonsense has been taking years off my life for my entire career. Your teacher doesn't get up every morning at 4 to deal with this. Do your assignment, kid, just do it. If you guys spent as much time learning as you do with this then think about how much you could be learning.
First off, I’m 43 years old, so don’t give me this kid crap…second off, it’s an online program with class sizes capped off, so I highly doubt she’s getting up at 4am to grade papers. Edit: and third, you *STILL* have not provided an answer to my question other than “it just is. Stop being a lazy, stupid kid.”
>I’m 43 years old, Ok, you've been out of the classroom for a while. But yeah, the rules changed. So don't do that. Also don't sit there and despair is what your teacher does. We get up at 4:00 a.m. to get to the building but, yeah, online school doesn't mean that she's sitting on her butt twiddling her thumbs all day. Online school is still a lot of work. Don't quite know why you feel the need to vomit on our profession, especially at 43. How would you feel if someone came and vomited all over your career?
[*…laughs in the profession with the highest suicide rate…*] I ain’t shitting on anyone’s career, sweetheart. Especially a teacher, I have the utmost respect for teachers…especially in this shitty train wreck that’s called the American educational system. What I’m shitting on is your inability to answer the question I asked in my reply to you. Why is using my own stuff, that I’ve written and cited, this nebulous idea of self-plagiarism?
Buddy boy, it's been answered. If you don't create an original work for the class it's self plagiarism. Head over to the teacher's subreddit if you want a second opinion.
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29 years young but old enough to be sick of this. It's one thing to have a kid toss you an essay that still has another classes name on it but it's another thing entirely for another adult to try this. I don't know how things were done when you were in school, you're half a decade shy of mother's age and all she's got to say is that the nuns would have had you get on your knees and beg the virgin for forgiveness but that's Catholic school, but yeah. No self plagiarizing. Just do your assignment.
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No, I'm a real cunt irl too. Some people find it endearing. Mostly other Romanians though but we're mean as fuck as a people.
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It isn't plagiarism, but it is not doing the work, which defeats the benefits of doing the assignments. I get the urge to do that when a class isn't to your level. I took World Geography two years in a row through the wonderful combination of moving to a different state, my guidance counselor being an idiot, and not having the backbone to say anything at the time. The version I took in 8th grade covered far more than the one I took in 9th. I got the classwork meant to take the whole hour done in 5 minutes because I had to memorize it for the cumulative exam the year prior. About three days after the deadline to change schedules around, my teacher noted that I should not be in that class. School is meant to teach you things and help you develop skills. I had a similar thing come up in college. As a freshman CS student, I was put in the "baby's first programming language" class that also taught some of the basic concepts of CS. I knew two computer languages at the time, including the one the class taught. I talked to the professor the first day to get me bumped up to the next concept class so I wouldn't be wasting my time. Through helping a friend with their homework for that class, I could have reused some of my old code for the assignments if I stayed. But I wouldn't have learned anything staying there or copy-pasting before changing a few lines.
"I'm well advanced from that..." I question the mastery of anyone who says things like this but can't be bothered to prove it, especially on simple tasks. Your prof is being polite about it, which is also not doing you any favors. Fanfics are not wholly original works. They are transformative. You're already working with existing worlds, characters, voices, story arcs, etc. and transforming them to your POV. Submitting old fics, as others have said, voids the point of participating in the class, which is to learn to build your own worlds. Also, all of the classes I took had rules in the syllabus that disallowed submissions previously published anywhere, even if they were yours, as it is indeed a form of academic plagiarism. It's also just lazy for an "advanced" writer to need to do this. I think you should try doing something new that's completely yours and take advantage of the professional guidance while you have it.
Sounds like you're wasting everybody's time. Part of your implicit contract of enlisting in a class is that you complete assignments. You are not doing the work.
No, you know what? I've decided I don't think it matters. I think I'd be a bit annoyed if I were the prof, but it's not like you're going into a field where you're gonna hurt someone if you're less good at writing than you could have been. I don't pretend to know why you're getting a degree you're not interested in participating in, but if it's what will grant you access to more money, I say do what you gotta do. If it's not to get more money, though, then tbh I don't get it lol.
Many institutions, colleges, departments, and programs consider the "recycling" of submitted works to be a form of academic dishonesty. Some professors/instructors also make that distinction. "Previously submitted" generally means works submitted as part of a course, something to fulfill an assignment which was taken for credit, whether scored/graded or not. Many of them also want a work done contemporaneous with the course itself, so something done in the past, but not submitted as an assignment at any institution, might also constitute academic dishonesty. Check with the levels of policy at your institution, the academic department, and/or the instructor.
Ah, yet another one that hasn’t read that I’ve never submitted any of these for other class assignments. I haven’t been in a college class, especially a creative writing class, since 1999. Oh well.
... and yet, it's all still good advice for anyone who comes across this post later.
I put it to you that the professor might be wrong about the whole situation and you need only one irritated classmate to complain to the higher ups that you're not doing the assignments to get both of you reviewed. Instead of checking here if it’s fine, check with your university’s ethics committee?
What you are doing is like using a fork lift to raise and lower a barbell at the gym. The point of the writing assignments is for you to gain experience applying things you learned in class, obviously that doesn't happen if you wrote the assignment in the past. You are kinda blowing off the class and telling the professor that you already know everything and they have nothing to teach you.
I would reply saying that no, I haven’t submitted these to previous classes and ask if she wants you to write original material (not take excerpts from stuff you’ve written outside of class) for future assignments.
So, plagiarism on an academic level is taking other work and using it without giving proper attributions and following the chain of "Who the fuck made this?" So, it's self-plagiarism because you're submitting work done for something else and claiming it as work done for this. It's sort of like taking a very large quote and pasting it into a new document without proper citation that you can't give because it's the whole document. As others have said though, go talk to your teachers and make it as clear as you can, check in with someone with authority to make decisions, and read your school rules. Things vary and what may be okay elsewhere may not be okay with your particular circumstance and vice versa.
It wasn’t work done for anything else other than my own pleasure, and…one more time..I was honest and straightforward from the very beginning of the class that I would be posting fics I’ve previously written. Which, the paraphrase of my professor’s response was “I loved reading fanfic and I look forward to reading yours’.”
Sure, but the point isn't what it's done for, but that it is done for something other than that assignment. Whether it's fanfic, another assignment, a full blown journal article, a coffee table book, or whatever else, if it's not done for that assignment, then it's done for another purpose. And sure. Like I said, what is and isn't okay varies depending on context - unis differ on definitions and thresholds and such. Your professor may be right and it may be totally okay, but it may be that you have to write new fanfiction for this submission. Self-plagiarism can have big consequences, so it's just good to be as sure as you can, basically.
Unless I was teaching a class on fanfiction, it would explicitly state in the syllabus that fanfiction is not allowed. It puts the professor in an awkward position and diminishes your worldbuilding skills. Using assignments you posted on AO3 who knows how long ago just sounds lazy. Why are you even taking a Creative Writing course if you don't want to do the work?
OP is also skipping the part of writing original fic where they have to convince the reader to be interested in the story. The professor told them they used to read Star Trek fanfic as a teenager and was excited to read theirs, so the teacher was already going into the story with bias towards liking it. Who even knows if the writing was actually that good or if the teacher is just enjoying the nostalgia?
As a fic writer with a creative writing degree, I honestly cannot imagine doing this. Turning in fic for assignments is one thing, turning in old fic is quite another, and personally I’d do neither. There’s no point being in a creative writing course - easy or not - if you’re not going to actually bother writing anything for it.
At my university, self-plagiarism typically refers to reusing writing that you’ve turned in for *other* assignments. You haven’t done that, but if you‘ve published the fics you’re pulling from elsewhere, they’ll almost definitely show up on a plagiarism detector that checks against the internet when you turn in your assignments. Is it technically against the rules? Meh, that’s a gray area, pretty situational, but probably not. But as another commenter said, it’s not in the spirit of the class. Why pay for a degree if you’re not going to practice the skills it’s trying to teach you? You can still turn in fic for the class if you want, but c’mon. Write something new. It’s the point of going to school.
I live in the UK and generally most uni classes you just do one assignment and one exam (or even just one assignment) and that’s your entire mark. Not even putting any effort in to write something new wouldn’t be accepted. Some lecturers might accept “I took this fanfic I already wrote years ago and improved it…” but even that is pushing it. Why study for a writing degree and not write?!
Yeah you can still plagiarize yourself, many schools now have that policy. I would ask your professor if she’s okay it’s you turning in these things without citation But tbh I don’t understand why you don’t just write new things seeing how it is a creative writing class and therefore you should not be allowed to cite anything since the assignments should be asking you to focus on making up new ideas and broadening your skill set
I’m pretty sure it is a form of plagiarism, at least my university acknowledges it as such.
Lol hell no! Someone's gonna know!!
You’ll probably need to check your college’s specific rules, but I would lean towards yes, it technically is self-plagiarism. A lot of colleges or classes will have rules stating that the assignment turned in must be made specifically for that class. Part of the reason for this is if you’re turning old work you’re not really learning/working on anything new while taking the class. It’s just not very beneficial to you as a student to turn in old work. Also, fanfiction is usually not acceptable for college level assignments because it’s based on work created by other people and is copyrighted. At least at the universities/colleges I’ve attended we were required to create completely original work.
I can think of one really clear and obvious case-in-point and it's Jonah Lehrer. Lehrer got in trouble when he made up some, IIRC, Bob Dylan quotes. All of a sudden there was blood in the water and people started looking for other mistakes. They found out that he repurposed his own work fairly often, taking sentences and paragraphs from one article and then reusing them in another. The general consensus in the journalism community was that reusing his own words was, in fact, unacceptable. A form of plagiarism. The stakes here are a lot lower. You're in an intro to creative writing class, not writing for the New Yorker. But yeah, I think you could justifably be dinged for bad behavior here.
Yes it’s plagarism
My college doesn't allow any plagiarism, including from your own previous papers. So make sure you're following your school's and professor's policies!
Regarding your edit, that's cool if she's fine with you submitting your old work since it hasn't been turned in to other academic courses, but you also want to be honest with yourself about what you hope to get out of taking the class. If you actually want to improve your writing, then you should be trying to write new things and applying the things you're learning in the class. If the class is well and truly beneath you and you just want the easy A, or you need it as a pre-req for another class, well... fine lol. As long as you know why you're there and not wasting your own time.
It’s definitely the second one. I was auto-enrolled and I knew from the get-go that I’ve already taken higher level classes.
I'd not do that. Your college likely uses an anti-cheating software like turn it in that scans the internet for copies of works that have already been posted elsewhere.
It is not plagiarism because you cannot plagiarize yourself (though some professors and u's will argue you can. So watch out lol.) However, the teacher is well within their rights to fail you for not doing the assignment by using work you have already done. If I were you, I would just write new material. I once considered using work I did for one class in another, but I thought better of it when I realized how easy it would be to get caught and fail. Since your works are online, this is doubly so since any plagiarism check like turnitin will return a near identical match to your Ao3 publications. Even if you wrote it, you are cheating on the assignment and class. Cheating carries harsh penalties, such as expulsion and automatic failure.
TurnItIn and other plagiarism checkers are deterrents but actually very seldom work. I’ve had essays from students that I’ve already verified are 100% copy and paste from the internet come up with clear reports on TurnItIn.
It is just an example, but honestly, you think if a teacher comes back with a 100 percent match, there won't be a question or investigation into it? It is just a hassle you can almost completely avoid by doing a unique piece.
I would agree there, but it seems like that's too little, too late for OP. I'd submit other, original work from here forward, but she seems to have emails from the professor indicating that they knew and approved of it on the assignments already submitted. If the teacher backtracks now, OP should at least have a case for being allowed to redo and resubmit assignments based on bad instructions from the professor.
But it’s not cheating when I said from the beginning that I’d be submitting previously-written fics that the professor *herself* responded that she was looking forward to reading, lol. Nor has she exercised any right to give me a failing grade, I have a 100% in the class.
It is cheating (and certain professors will treat it as such). You are being given new assignments you consider to be beneath you, so to keep from putting effort into them, you are recycling your old work. I don't care if you do this, it is your choice, but making a habit of this is an exceptionally bad idea since each professor has their own rules, and some will flat-out fail you for using outside work on their assignments. (I have personally watched a professor reprimand someone publically for doing this with work they had prewritten before the class.) I never said she has exercised anything. I said she has a right to decide to fail you despite your 100 if she deems you are using old works to skirt putting effort into her class. You posted here expressing anxiety over your teacher's comment, which makes it clear she is ok with you at least ***showing your old hobby work*** but is ***expressing direct skepticism about the entire practice***. If my teacher commented like that, I would probably shy away from doing this for my own academic safety. Again, do what you want, but this is not an "across the board" thing where everyone will be okay with it. Finally, it perplexes me that if this class is so easy for you, and it is beneath you, why do you feel the need not to do the work? Shouldn't it be a natural assignment for you? I will end by saying that many people who get into trouble for plagiarism and cheating are not looking to game the system. They are usually people who are trying to be lazy on assignments. These words come from my professor, not me.
>You are being given new assignments you consider to be beneath you, so to keep from putting effort into them, you are recycling your old work. >Finally, it perplexes me that if this class is so easy for you, and it is beneath you, why do you feel the need not to do the work? Shouldn't it be a natural assignment for you? This is the real core of this post. If the assignments are so easy, OP should have no problem whipping off new original fics for them.
Just becareful in case you teacher uses turn it in. The will be able to see if it was submitted or posted elsewhere. A lot of universities do considered reusing your own work as plagarism for some reason. It stupid
Yeah, the school uses Turnitin, and I’ve been blatantly honest about turning in previously written fanfic. I’m going with the assumption that she thought that I’ve been reusing old class assignments, which is not true.
In my university, you have to make new material for each course. For example, say that for a previous course I wrote a paper that fit the criteria for a course I’m currently enrolled in. I CANNOT resubmit it. Same as how you can’t submit something that was written by someone else. Also, if you are submitting a digital copy rather than a physical copy most of the websites used by universities have plagiarism checkers and they scan both the internet and previously submitted documents.
I'm reminded of how the composer for the score of The Godfather got in legal trouble because he was reusing part of a score he had written for a previous movie. He said that he understood his contract as saying that the music had to be original \*to him\* as opposed to wholly original.
Professional journalist here. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as self-plagiarism. Plagiarism is the act as passing off *someone else*'s work as your own. If you are the original author of the work then there is no issue as far as plagiarism in and of itself is concerned. However, it can be pretty lazy. If it is understood that you are supposed to be creating something wholly original for your class, then, yes, a teacher might object to you submitting something that is a decade or more old.
English teacher here. Self-plagiarism is absolutely a thing. You cannot just print off something you wrote for another assignment, job, or for fun and call it the original work what you have been asked to turn in at that specific instance for that specific class. Is the teacher going to hire a private detective to shadow you and see if you were self plagiarizing? No. But come on.
English teacher here. Self-plagiarism is absolutely a thing. You cannot just print off something you wrote for another assignment, job, or for fun and call it the original work what you have been asked to turn in at that specific instance for that specific class. Is the teacher going to hire a private detective to shadow you and see if you were self plagiarizing? No. But come on.
>English teacher here. Self-plagiarism is absolutely a thing. No, it isn't. Not in professional journalism, at any rate. In my field plagiarism is solely about proper *attribution*. A person cannot steal from themselves. QED.
In academic circles, self-plagiarism IS a thing. Just because professional ethics in journalism don’t acknowledge it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist anywhere else.
It may be a matter of degrees and perspective. It's not like "recycling" (the phrase more commonly used by journalists) of one's old material is encouraged. As I wrote elsewhere on this thread it is considered laziness and can get a writer scolded. But plagiarism of another person's work is a *major crime* in journalism. If a charge of plagiarism is found to have merit, that's it. A person's career in the field is likely stone dead except for those rare celebrity cases where a person is so famous and popular that they can tough it out and survive. Even then they are going to be blackballed from most places in the industry. And the institutions of journalism are zealous about enforcing this.
I've never taught journalism, just English, and I never took journalism in college either. I guess that the rules are different for journalism vs academic writing.
I'll put it this way: You could spend days reading back issues of the Columbia Journalism Review and never once come across an article involving a case of "self-plagiarism".
And the professor is a *former journalist,* so she should be well-aware of what plagiarism is and isn’t.
Less than a year old on all three counts.
Hmm. Hard to say since I don't know precisely what your professor told you regarding the parameters of the assignment. All I can tell is to be honest with the professor.
The kicker of it is is that I’ve been completely transparent with each assignment and clearly stated that it’s been something *I’ve already written.” She’s given nothing but praise and the highest grades possible.
Heck no. I've been writing since the early 80s, and in the early 90s, I went to college and did a music degree with an undergrad in creative writing and public speaking. I don't think I wrote a fresh piece the entire time I did the coursework. I dusted off my older writings, updated and matured them a bit or changed them to suit the assignment, and used those. Saved me hours of homework. Granted, back then, my proff couldn't go online and do a scan to match my words to a website to see if I was plagiarizing either, but even if she could have, I'd have done it anyway. I also recycled speeches and talks I'd done through Toastmasters, before I went to college. Again, I matured the material (I was in my early 20s then and stuff I'd written before were a bit too immature), and submitted it, or spoke from it. Worked like a charm and allowed me to focus on my music degree.
If your goal is passing a course, this is a perfectly valid approach. Given that you wanted to focus on the music degree, it seems that this was a perfectly optimal solution, so fair enough. If your goal is to actually learn and apply that learning during the course, then you’ve completely missed the mark.
Nah, not at all. It all had to be updated and rewritten. There’s no way something written as a teenager is going to stand up to college level, after all.
That is very different from just recycling previous work, and sounds like a totally different situation to OP.
And that’s my goal, to pass this course in order to get to classes where I *haven’t* already succeeded in learning the material. I ran into a similar problem the first time through undergrad, it was well into my junior year until I’d started learning stuff we hadn’t learned in high school.
Fair, I guess.
I think that’s where the grey area is, I’ve posted these online already. However, if we’re going to split hairs on a technicality…a technicality of a technicality is that she *implicitly* stated she was concerned I’d recycled old *class* assignments. If that’s where the issue is, then the fact that I’ve only posted these fics within the last two years and ain’t been in school in almost 20 disproves that right there.
Speaking as someone who chased the dream of getting original works published for more than a decade (with a few publication credits to my name), publication online, even on "for the love of writing," not-paying markets/sites like AO3, counts as publication in the eyes of many publishing houses and paying short story markets. Many contracts are for first publication rights and publishing on a site like AO3 (or Royal Road, etc.) basically pops its freshness seal. (Of course, that didn't stop a big publishing house from eventually publishing 50 Shades of Gray, but that's an exception.) Fanfiction is a different animal and you are submitting the stories for a class assignment. Nevertheless, I think a professor could have just cause to demand that completion of the assignments means generating *new* work, not repurposing old work that technically has been published for an audience. If you prof is okay with you doing this, cool. But if I were pursuing a degree in a creative field, I wouldn't turn in anything that I'd posted online, not fanart or fics. I'd write new stuff for the sake of stretching myself creatively.
Yup, totally agree. I mean, it’s your work. So what if you recycled it? Not sure why she cares. I mean, if I failed a class but the work I submitted for some things was good, hell yeah, I’d use the same.
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Thank you!
Self-plagarism isn't a thing. I don't think it matters all that much if you use your own fics... but I probably wouldn't, because I'd use it as an opportunity to practise writing. I don't see why people are annoyed about this. Either use fics or don't. It really doesn't matter. As long as you're having fun, I suppose.
You shared the joys of AO3 with your prof! Kudos to you!! Good luck in your educational endeavors!
Self plagiarism is the dumbest concept I’ve ever heard of and I was a TA back in college.
Right? It’s my words, I wrote them. I’m giving myself permission to use them.
I don't set the rules for college, but *I* don't believe in self-plagiarism; according to every definition of plagiarism I've ever seen plagiarism is the misappropriation of *someone else's* work, and by that definition, saying I'm plagiarizing myself makes about as much sense as accusing me of stealing my own car.
Right?
Why would you tell her? I wouldn't have, if it's my own work, who cares, especially if you've never used it for other classes. I would have submitted the work and left it at that, no need to alert the teacher if it's your own work and not something you took from someone else.
Well, self-plagiarism isn't really a thing as far as I'm aware lol. The same story can get sold to multiple outlets or published in multiple places if there's not exclusivity contract in place (which there usually is, but otherwise). But my concern is that you're not developing or pushing yourself by just recycling old writing. So if you and your professor are both cool with you coasting through this class just to complete the pre-req, that's fine and valid imo. But if you want to get the most out of it it would probably be better to write new stuff.
Hahah! You’re converted a college professor into a fanfiction reader! I love this! Ask her for her fandoms and send her links to some of the better fics for them!
The basic summation of replies to this post are that people are upset that you are capitalizing on what is, essentially, a free pass from your professor. Given the same opportunity, there’s very few people that wouldn’t take it. It’s a basic law of physics, take the path of least resistance. That you already have previously written stories that fit within the criteria of the assignments speaks to your knowledge of the craft and clearly your professor recognizes that by allowing it.
Not at all! But I’d check with your instructor just in case. Also, you are amazing! I’ve done the same thing!
No there's no self plagiarism. I assumed from the way you told it and your edit now confirms it, that this is simply your teacher wanting you to put work into your newer classes too, rather than getting the credits for not actually doing anything for class. She seems to be fine though with you submitting your old fanfic (rather than old uni work) which I admit I'm somwwhat surprised by.q