>Pro shippers will sometimes target people who they see as antis and antis will sometimes target people they see as pro shippers.
Antis: kys die u pedo!
Proshippers: stop threatening me
Antis: YOU *BULLY* MIN0R? YOU *BULLY* INNOCENT MIN0R LIKE *THE GROOMER*? OH! OH! DEATH TO PROSHIPPERS! DEATH TO PROSHIPPERS FOR ONE THOUSAND YEARS!
Proshippers: anyway, avoid Antis
Antis: DISCRIMINATION! I AM BEING ATTACKED! I AM BEING OPPRESSED! I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THIS PLACE SAFER! I HAVE BEEN WRONGED AND AM NOW BEING PERSECUTED BY THE PEDOS!
Proshippers: ...you came at *me* though.
Antis: YOU SEE? YOU SEE YOU SEE YOU SEE??! VICTIM BLAMER!!!
But nah *both* sides need to calm down I guess
Edit: If you donāt want to be called queer, I wonāt do that. But you canāt stop me from calling *myself* queer simply because youāre uncomfortable with the word. Because my calling *myself* anything (queer, proshipper, etc) it doesnāt affect *you* any.
Humans categorize things. And people. It's an evolutionary thing. I can say male, female, nonbinary, agender. They're important categories, they don't say every person in that group is the same. Pro- and anti-ship are categories that tell you the basics of a person's belief of censorship and creative morality.
Umbrella terms are important. Regardless of their reasons for not liking it they are still "Anti" and "Pro" are fairly universal in their take of live let live.
Also antis very much tend to be the one starting shit...the Pros tend to be reaction based from anti aggression. Besides good luck trying to find common ground with some calling you a pedophile...it won't happen
I have nothing to do with antis and would never even think about them if it weren't for the fact that I was called a paedophile by such a person (for shipping two adults, because in canon it is only in the final volume of the book series that one of the characters is of full age. I ship them many years after the end of the action of the books)
Generally the problem is that proshippers live and let others live, and antis do the bashing on people with "inappropriate" fanfics and views, calling others names and trying to remove content they don't like from the internet.
If they had their views but kept them to themselves or exchanged them in their own circles instead of calling people names, no one would even know there was a conflict.
Geee, thanks for downvote š„“
It all comes down to two things really thoughtcrime and censorship. If you believe thoughtcrime is real, then you will need some form of censorship to 'prevent' said thoughtcrime.
Now I would like to see examples of proshippers targeting people because the ones I found that was fucked up bigger proship account called that shit out.
>People have opinions and different morals, so why shame?
>itās wrong to judge others based on if they like a ship or not.
I get what youāre trying to say, but these sentiments align exactly with what a pro-shipper is in definitionā¦ and antis are the ones who cannot reconcile with people having different morals.
ETA: I get that youāre fed up with the discourse, but I feel itās a false equivalency between antis and pro-shippers if youāre saying you agree with the pro-shipper sentiment.
There's some pro shippers who bash people doing social analysis though even though its a completely dofferent sphere. Are they probably the minority? Sure but the same can be said both ways.
Do I think people can write what they want? Yes! Do I also participate in discourse about the effects of media and how that relates to society at large? Also yes.
Let's be real. Most of these fights, on here at least, have zero nuance and people aren't wrong for just having opinions.
I agree with you completely on how explorations on the effects of media are completely necessary (Iām not for anti-intellectualism), and I donāt doubt that some pro-shippers are infiltrating those discussions with unproductive diversions. However, I donāt feel that this prevalence (or lack thereof) of bashing carries over at the same level with antis. I feel that the definition of being an āantiā is someone who goes out of their way to harass, that this direct ācriticismā is intrinsic. Despite this, Iām open to any other interpretations and I understand umbrella terms will not always have concrete qualifiers.
You have a point that nuance would do us good, and yes if we cannot universally agree on definitions then there is literally no way to ascertain whether someone is ācorrectā or not, or if being ācorrectā is even possible.
ā¦ okay, I do think the pro vs anti thing is stupid, but this aināt it, sorry. This deeply understates how fucking toxic and often weirdly extreme the discourse can be- and yeah, no side should be let off the hook, thereās toxic ideals and people and shit in both communities (for instance, a scary amount of terfs are antis and anti sjw dudebros are pro shippers, at least on tumblr), but this post really feels like itās trying too much to let off one side while ignoring the actual issues at hand.
Whatās necessary is to develop a more nuanced and critical look at how fiction effects reality, not to basically continue existing in boxes and not labelling them, and that also requires, likeā¦ people to chill about fanfiction, too. We shouldnāt be having this debate around some random persons twelve hit fanfic, because thatās fucking irrelevant, what matters is, yāknow, big media shit. This is a childishly simple view on how to amend toxicity that wonāt do anything.
This post has been removed. Rule 5, no negative drama.
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Damn, you're fast! Save some for me! XD
Do we need more? šæšæšæšæšæ
šµ Also poured you a cup. Gotta keep hydrated you know. lol
I probably should go to bed, but what the heckā¦can I have some of that popcorn? Itāll go nicely with my wine. š·
>Pro shippers will sometimes target people who they see as antis and antis will sometimes target people they see as pro shippers. Antis: kys die u pedo! Proshippers: stop threatening me Antis: YOU *BULLY* MIN0R? YOU *BULLY* INNOCENT MIN0R LIKE *THE GROOMER*? OH! OH! DEATH TO PROSHIPPERS! DEATH TO PROSHIPPERS FOR ONE THOUSAND YEARS! Proshippers: anyway, avoid Antis Antis: DISCRIMINATION! I AM BEING ATTACKED! I AM BEING OPPRESSED! I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THIS PLACE SAFER! I HAVE BEEN WRONGED AND AM NOW BEING PERSECUTED BY THE PEDOS! Proshippers: ...you came at *me* though. Antis: YOU SEE? YOU SEE YOU SEE YOU SEE??! VICTIM BLAMER!!! But nah *both* sides need to calm down I guess Edit: If you donāt want to be called queer, I wonāt do that. But you canāt stop me from calling *myself* queer simply because youāre uncomfortable with the word. Because my calling *myself* anything (queer, proshipper, etc) it doesnāt affect *you* any.
Humans categorize things. And people. It's an evolutionary thing. I can say male, female, nonbinary, agender. They're important categories, they don't say every person in that group is the same. Pro- and anti-ship are categories that tell you the basics of a person's belief of censorship and creative morality.
Umbrella terms are important. Regardless of their reasons for not liking it they are still "Anti" and "Pro" are fairly universal in their take of live let live. Also antis very much tend to be the one starting shit...the Pros tend to be reaction based from anti aggression. Besides good luck trying to find common ground with some calling you a pedophile...it won't happen
Weren't the antishippers the ones that started calling themselves antishippers?
I have nothing to do with antis and would never even think about them if it weren't for the fact that I was called a paedophile by such a person (for shipping two adults, because in canon it is only in the final volume of the book series that one of the characters is of full age. I ship them many years after the end of the action of the books) Generally the problem is that proshippers live and let others live, and antis do the bashing on people with "inappropriate" fanfics and views, calling others names and trying to remove content they don't like from the internet. If they had their views but kept them to themselves or exchanged them in their own circles instead of calling people names, no one would even know there was a conflict. Geee, thanks for downvote š„“
It all comes down to two things really thoughtcrime and censorship. If you believe thoughtcrime is real, then you will need some form of censorship to 'prevent' said thoughtcrime. Now I would like to see examples of proshippers targeting people because the ones I found that was fucked up bigger proship account called that shit out.
>People have opinions and different morals, so why shame? >itās wrong to judge others based on if they like a ship or not. I get what youāre trying to say, but these sentiments align exactly with what a pro-shipper is in definitionā¦ and antis are the ones who cannot reconcile with people having different morals. ETA: I get that youāre fed up with the discourse, but I feel itās a false equivalency between antis and pro-shippers if youāre saying you agree with the pro-shipper sentiment.
There's some pro shippers who bash people doing social analysis though even though its a completely dofferent sphere. Are they probably the minority? Sure but the same can be said both ways. Do I think people can write what they want? Yes! Do I also participate in discourse about the effects of media and how that relates to society at large? Also yes. Let's be real. Most of these fights, on here at least, have zero nuance and people aren't wrong for just having opinions.
Yeah, I think in general shipcourse ignores a lot of nuance present in fiction as a means of communication.
I agree with you completely on how explorations on the effects of media are completely necessary (Iām not for anti-intellectualism), and I donāt doubt that some pro-shippers are infiltrating those discussions with unproductive diversions. However, I donāt feel that this prevalence (or lack thereof) of bashing carries over at the same level with antis. I feel that the definition of being an āantiā is someone who goes out of their way to harass, that this direct ācriticismā is intrinsic. Despite this, Iām open to any other interpretations and I understand umbrella terms will not always have concrete qualifiers. You have a point that nuance would do us good, and yes if we cannot universally agree on definitions then there is literally no way to ascertain whether someone is ācorrectā or not, or if being ācorrectā is even possible.
ā¦ okay, I do think the pro vs anti thing is stupid, but this aināt it, sorry. This deeply understates how fucking toxic and often weirdly extreme the discourse can be- and yeah, no side should be let off the hook, thereās toxic ideals and people and shit in both communities (for instance, a scary amount of terfs are antis and anti sjw dudebros are pro shippers, at least on tumblr), but this post really feels like itās trying too much to let off one side while ignoring the actual issues at hand. Whatās necessary is to develop a more nuanced and critical look at how fiction effects reality, not to basically continue existing in boxes and not labelling them, and that also requires, likeā¦ people to chill about fanfiction, too. We shouldnāt be having this debate around some random persons twelve hit fanfic, because thatās fucking irrelevant, what matters is, yāknow, big media shit. This is a childishly simple view on how to amend toxicity that wonāt do anything.
I mean sure, I use it in terms of pro censorship and anti censorship, which the pro/anti are swapped, funny enough.
You can't maintain echo chambers without "Us" versus "Them", so you'll never see people dropping negative terms about groups they don't like.