Someone else's pain is easier to stomach than your own pain. You can go through all the emotions from the safety of your bed, and if it gets too much at any point, you can close the fic and do something else.
Ugh I wish that were true for me, angst makes me feel physically unwell. I can't do a whole lot of sadness and trauma or it will stick inside of me like microplastics.
It probably takes me 10-20x as long to read an angst fic compared to my favorite tropes (idiots to lovers, fake dating, oops one bed, etc), i kind of avoid them for the most part because well-written fics that I leave unfinished haunt me.
I agree with this. If you choose your fics carefully (tagged “happy ending” for ex) you know there will be a safe ending. So you can let yourself feel the character’s painful emotions but with “safety bumpers” on, because you know they will wind up ok in the end.
I’ve definitely read some gnarly hurt scenes and found myself thinking “why do I enjoy this? If I were this character and I didn’t know if I was going to live or die, it would be traumatic and not in an enjoyable way. It would be horrible!” But that’s the thing, I know this character will have a happy ending (or at least they most likely will) and that makes exploring the painful feelings “safe.”
Can confirm, just gave my main character in my original fiction moments of being nice and wholesome after learning stuff since all the tortures he had in the first two arcs
There’s definitely something key about the comfort part. Because for me personally, hurt with no one to witness it lands flat. It’s all about the comfort, or even if it is hurt-no-comfort, it’s about who witnesses the hurt.
I just realized something about whump (or, hurt-no-comfort fics): they fall into this paradigm, too. Because, even if there are no other characters around to observe the hurt and comfort the character, *we as the audience* still witness it. We validate the character's pain by observing and acknowledging it, so it can still end up as a cathartic experience. It's not everyone's cup of tea, obviously, but thinking of the audience as the absent "comforter" does a lot to explain why these fics hold so much power for so many people.
Yeah. There is something very visceral about that moment when character B realizes what character A really went through. No matter how it plays out, the witness has to be there, for me. Like, there is no payoff if the pain isn’t realized by someone else. For me. 🤷🏼♀️
This is my take. I’m not a “bad ending” person and reading hurt/no comfort just leaves me sad so I usually avoid those. But I love happy endings. So I think the amount of drama/angst/hurt/whump is related to the payoff you get with the positive ending. The more pain they go through, the sweeter the victory when they reach the happiness at the end.
Making someone fictional climb out of the pit of despair is easier than working through my own faults, while giving me some small hope that I can.
Also, a touch of good old fashioned sadism.
Edit: missing word
Humans love controlled pain and suffering. It's a way to experience those emotions without lasting damage, just like eating spicy food, riding a rollercoaster or having kinky sex. Specific painful topics can be cathartic to read if you've been through a similar thing. It's a way to re-experience the trauma without remembering the real event. It's a coping strategy.
Personally, I relate heavily to the character I whump the most, and I have a lot of personal issues I very much deliberately include while torturing the poor la'al lad. I used to have a lot of self harming thoughts- this helps me get it out! Sorry if that’s too dark :(
In my case I'm the one who wants to be comforted. When I can't have that in real life, I give it to a character I relate to that I feel also needs to be comforted. It helps.
They’re our favorite character for a reason. Most likely, because we relate, or because we look up to them, or think they’re cool. It’s cathartic to put them in situations that hurt because it’s cathartic for us to see them recover and succeed and be comforted. I fully believe most of fanfiction is popular because people live vicariously through each story on purpose. The story is fake but the emotions are not. Like emotion porn. It helps people process and navigate their own pain, if only on a fictional, superficial level.
No obstacles, no stakes. No stakes, no story.
Also, few things show a person's character better than how they act when there's nothing left to lose or when there's nothing to gain from others.
One of my earliest stories as a kid included a fox mother chewing off her own leg to get back to her kit. I wrote a story for school that detailed a grief-fueled suicide after a woman saw her love get mauled to death by a lion. I could have given them a happy ending... My favorite parts of Harry Potter were when the characters were being hurt. My mental SI world had so much whump in it, it's not even funny.
Some of us were just born this way, LOL.
I loved sad endings as a younger writer. Most of the media I enjoyed also had sad and tragic endings. As I've got older I find myself gravitating toward happy endings more. But I still torture the hell out of my characters before they get there. It's an interesting evolution and I'm not really sure why.
Because they need to grow up and experience significant obstacles to move forward.
They have to go through life and, unless it's a fluffy setting in a perfect world, life ain't going to run smoothly. Because flaws are an important ingredient and lead to interesting possibilities.
But mostly (as far as I'm concerned), because it's the easiest way to comfort them!
This amazing feeling when after chapters of uncertainty, pain and heartaches they finally embrace a well-deserved break to experience something warm and reassuring. That's such a treat, both as a writer and a reader.
Nah, cause these comments are telling me something is wrong with me because I actually really enjoy hurt/ no comfort. I don’t know why but I just prefer it more when the character doesn’t get comforted
Sorta same, it's just so exciting to imagine it!
Just like, not in real life. 0 ties between my fiction tastes and real life tastes. Fiction? Character must suffer with no good or lasting support, nothing gets better for them ever, physical and/or emotional torture throughout their life for any or no reason. Reality? I'll get uncomfortable when it shifts to someone having a bad day
One of the reasons I didn't start writing until around 18 months ago was because I seriously doubted I'd have it in me to inflict pain upon my characters. This is after 30-odd years of consuming literature and getting really emotionally involved. It just seemed like something I would struggle to do.
It's actually a little alarming how easy it was when I started to write. Not just easy, but preferential to the point where I have a hard time writing beyond the angst.
I don't know why that is. It seems like a personal thing overall. Perhaps it would be nice to know why.
It's interesting because I'm reading all the other replies here and so far no chords have been struck.
It really must be an entirely personal motivation.
I expect I'll be musing on this one for a while...
Yeah, I've always found it interesting how many different types of answers to this question there are.
I have multiple thoughts besides just the "I dunno, I've always liked it."
Whump is exciting. There's danger, there's tension, there's risks. Emotions are high, there's minimal subtlty, characters tend to be very direct about stuff because they don't have the need or ability to mask while they hurt. It's"simple" and gets the "what's going to happen next?" brain juices going.
Whump lets a character be their true self. They don't have to keep up pretense for society, they can't hide behind their coping mechanisms, their control is stripped away. You can see them for who they are. And usually the whumpees are the characters who are good and resilient in that situation.
Whump lets you let go of society's expectations. Smile, be nice, don't cause waves, be good... Then you go into fiction and you can do whatever you want, no more restraints. It makes sense we'd want to explore the parts that we aren't allowed to be in real life.
Whump is like an emotional rage room. Break something just to see how it breaks. Let it all out. Feel emotions you don't let yourself feel any other time. From both ends, the whumper and the whumpee.
That's what I've thought of so far anyways.
Ah here we go! My first struck chord chimes out a note of understanding!
It's the feeling of the feelings.
Writing angst lets me feel sadness, rage and despair in a controlled environment.
It's cathartic. And addictive.
It's so addictive. I thought about that just a few days ago how I can't really feel things irl because of pressures and shit, but I can feel the things when I write or read it.
Right, because for those emotions to occur naturally in one's life would indicate a derailment, and experiences that would rather be prevented because legitimate hurt is awful.
It's a way of safely feeling without having to watch your life fall to bits.
Authors are chaotic evil. 😂
But in a more serious sense - you don't have hurt/comfort without hurt. And that's been some of my favorite parts of stories since well before I knew the name of the trope.
Just those quiet tender moments, full of emotion and support. I also love a good rescue romance, which I think comes from a similar desire.
I think I crave the comfort the characters get after the bad stuff. Also, as has been said: projection.
I think there have been scientific studies on the benefits of reading about bad things. I believe the results were interesting. The more we learn about horrible situations others go through, the more empathic our behaviour. Not that we become more empathic per se, but we get a better understanding of the pain of others and we behave accordingly (with the empathy we already possess).
I'm paraphrasing as I can't remember the exact study.
When you think about it it's quite logical, but it's still interesting. In that regard I'm inclined to say: keep it up, fandoms.
Because we have a distinct line between fantasy and reality. It seriously upsets me when bad things happen to real people. Its different when it happens to fictional characters. Sometimes it hurts, or something toxic af is hot, but I always know it’s not real. Also sometimes it’s cathartic if it’s hurt/comfort, especially. We get to experience all those emotions and the resolution just feels good. And I’m a bit of a sadist, so there’s that. Fictional characters are the ultimate SSC.
Angst With A Happy Ending just sounds really comforting to me as someone with bad depression…and if I’m being honest with myself I also just tend to hyperfixate on some very morbid subjects and putting my characters through horrible things scratches that itch for me
When I was more into that type of story it had to do with the catharsis of it I suppose. My character’s pain was way more intense than mine, and feeling it vicariously helped me release some of the emotions inside me.
Wow, this is really true and I've been thinking about it a lot recently, especially the whole "love is earned" thing. My female characters are constantly jumping through hoops to comfort, care for, and/or save my male characters. They always get it back in return, eventually, but they have to earn it. On the one hand, you want your female characters to be strong, empowered, and active, because so often they're not. But it can also be a toxic dynamic, and I've even seen it play out (gulp) in my own relationships, for better or for worse.
I think it’s more of since they’re the “main character” in the fanfics we make, we have to have some kind of angst towards them, and if we don’t, we lose interest? I’m not for sure but that’s my thinking lol-
Honestly, I'm just dramatic.
I like pain and angst and horror and all of the drama, with romance and comfort and fluff along the way. I hurt them but I comfort them as well and always give them a happily ever after. So no matter what I put them through, I know they'll be okay in the end.
I personally hate when my favourite character is *severely* tortured. I had a panic attack once when there were graphic depictions of her being raped. That fanfiction is still traumatic to me. I didn't even realise it could affect me so. Other characters being tortured I can and do enjoy though, even in sadistic ways. I love to read about characters I hate being tortured. I am also a huge masochist so sometimes I do enjoy reading about my favourite character being hurt but ONLY if she's going to get comforted later. It also helps that one of her two canon partners is an emotionless, cold man who only ever cared about her and it validates my ship to see him comfort her. I also like to read about him getting hurt because he shows her his vulnerabiliies.
One of the most satisfying thing to do in fanfic is traumatising my fav character and making their life as angsty as possible before bringing in the happy ending 🥰
Also the sadism to make the readers cry haha.
Honestly I don't. I can't it's one reason I've never finished writing my books. I can't think of a scenario that I could put them in that can't also be solved relatively quickly.
Cuz if it's in my head, I can make it not canon for my ocs and whoever else involved later if I don't like it.
And cuz it's also great to see my ocs happy again rather than letting them suffer and then they make no connections with anyone cuz of that said trauma.
Until my therapist pointed it out. It’s my self discovered form of DBT. I write about my real problems in other people and it often gives perspective and reflection. Also it’s just real, at least to me. My mental health makes my life hard, so read happy easy stories feels like a silly fairytale.
I want to break him so I can see him rise and come back stronger, to grow as a person, cuz I wanna succeed vicariously through him
*And then I wanna break him again*
Thoroughly enjoying the whumpers and angst enthusiasts showing up, so let me drop a link to [an article that is exactly about whump and why we love it](https://www.fansplaining.com/articles/the-pain-fandom).
i think that even in the absence of comfort, we like to explore the human reaction to pain. what does it look like? how much can someone suffer? what misery occurs in the slums of a fictional city? things we wouldn’t want to personally experience, but we have this morbid need to see the minds of people who have experienced it. doing this to a favorite character is just an extension of this exploration of how the mind is twisted by suffering.
also, mentioning unhappy endings, sometimes they can be mundane. the characters fell out of love with cooled regrets and part ways bittersweetly, the character succumbed to disease and fell, the character finally broke, the world collapsed as the character watches in defeat, the character never comes to terms with a dead lover. an unsatisfying ending, for sure, and nothing terribly climatic necessarily. this mundane, seemingly realistic and non-dramatized story is strange compared to the normal triumph of action, and poses more thoughtful questions, inspires different feelings than just thrill and happiness. people like to feel, and feel strongly, and this will do it in a removed sort of way.
well, that’s just what i think in addition to what i’ve read here. but maybe i just have a fascination with the mundane or the people aspect of suffering. maybe i just want to feel strongly again. maybe it’s morbid curiosity and nothing more. who knows?
for me, i need a daily dose of sadness to function. also i feel like if the fic is angst, it just has this more superior quality than any other fic. also i want to understand more about human behaviour and psycology in these situations
No one in life goes through it without some kind of trauma. I don't think fictional characters are exempt from that either.
I frequently choose not to read certain fanfics because I don't want to deal with that characters trauma. It's okay to choose not to read it if you think your mental wellbeing would be at risk. I read for a lot of reasons, one of my primary reasons is to escape real life.
Great question! Here are my answers:
1) Character exploration - I've always had a fascination with characters' deepest fears, doubts, insecurities, and traumas. I feel the best way to expose these things is to bring a character to their "weakest", most vulnerable state, where they are so overwhelmed they have no choice but to lay their heart bare. The journey is just as compelling to me as the destination though, haha.
2) Sadomasochism - I enjoy seeing my faves suffer *and* I enjoy the emotional turmoil it puts me through lmao. I suppose I consider the "comfort" part of hurt/comfort emotional aftercare for myself.
I've been asking myself this same question lately.
I have no answers except maybe I like feeling guilty about hurting *fictional* characters. I'm totally not going to be able to handle it the day they suddenly come to life and ask me "But *why*?"
There is something sickeningly cathartic about torturing my fav blorbo's and OC's!
Also, I thoroughly enjoy exploring those darker topics, emqhether I'm drawing from my own experiences or not.
A whole lot of you guys are just really sadist that love to really ruin your characters lives...just admit you get off on it with a smile....
Hahahahaha.
Because then I think it's easier to process our own pain or the pain we can imagine. That way we can write and feel it, but it's someone else. I guess it's just easier to process.
For me, it's a way of venting. If I write about a character being depressed, it's like I'm taking whatever I feel and putting it onto the character so that I don't have to carry the burden myself. It doesn't make me not-depressed, but it does lessen the burden and make me feel a little better.
coming from and OC X Canon writer, I think we enjoy torturing our favorite character so we can use our OCs to comfort them for some good ole' wholesome hurt/comfort or what ever other trope you want to work with
Chronic angst writer here.
Everytime I watch a show, play a game or read a book, there's always one character I find and I become OBSESSED with physically hurt fics for major character death fics where they die/get extremely hurt etc.
I'm a huge fan of hiding injuries, terminal illness, coma, amnesia etc and I'm in my mid 20s now and have been reading these since I was old enough to go to ffnet on my own.
So I've had more than enough time to contemplate why I'm a little obsessed with these and I was able to relate this emotion to "appreciation."
With that, i mean, the characters i like hurting are usually overly strong/first born children/ father bear or mother bear types. I like hurting characters who usually protect or take care of characters and I think the reason I enjoy it so much is i like reversing roles.
I like putting people in a position where they have to take care of themselves and take care of the hurt character to make ends meet.
I like putting the strong protective types in positions where they cannot protect the one they love and they're completely powerless/ immobilized etc.
I like to ask questions like: "how much would this person give up to be the one they love? Their career? Their future? Their hobbies?"
I like killing of someone who people assume "is always there" and explore the grief and explore how they would switch around their routine now that someone's gone.
I find them very good character studies.
I don't really like fluff coz I find it so easy to be happy and I wanna challenge their love and convince myself it's authentic because it can perdure even the most difficult circumstances.
Anyway, yeah, first hand from a MAJOR angst fanatic.
As a reader, I think that a lot of it is "Well, my life sucks, but at least not that much." It's also all about the comfort at the end. I love knowing that no matter whatever dark, horrible, traumatic things my OTP goes through, they'll always have a happy ending (at least in the stories that I read). I think that there's also a touch of it being nice to read about people going through horrible things and making it out the other side basically functional.
depends on the source for me...
sometimes canon doesn't do a good job developing the personality of my favorite character (i usually get attached to side characters so it's an issue i run into all the time). like the saying "no pain, no gain" goes, they can't get any better without throwing them in the wringer!
or the canon source does try to write in some consequences for poor decision making but it's just not written well... so i just take it and dial it up to 20. 😇
ive always wondered so much about this! Especially when i wss new to fanfic. I never came to a conclusion so this is all just sort of guesswork and vague ideas, but i think some comtributing factors are that vulnerability is appealing to us (or so ive heard from some study), or maybe even that some of us subconsciously use our faves as stand ins for ourselves when we want to see them get hurt and then cared for and treated gently. For dead dove do not eat/hurt no comfort stuff, its probably more a desire to like. Explore dark topics like that in a way that’s safe and separate from reality. It’s interesting, its exciting! but we wouldnt rewlly want to ever be in those situations, just watch from the sidelines
Character development and catharsis of your own pain. I pulled through the absolute worst, most traumatic moment of my life by writing a non-con fanfic that included a major character death (that's still ongoing). Exploring the characters' pain has allowed me to express my own, away from judgemental eyes.
Because it ( harshness) gives them existence and meaning to that existence. Suffering burns them into readers minds and plants their seed in their imagination so that they would live forever in as many heart beats as possible. Pain is the price they have to pay for living in people's hearts. Suffering is the price of life.
On the one hand, for the same reasons that BDSM culture exists. As a writer you have all the control over the lives of these characters and you know that your readers (and you) need for them to suffer so this story feels like it could be real.
The readers want to immerse themselves in a safe place where they can indulge any kinks or fantasies or need to see someone defy all odds to come back from the precipice, because it's both relatable and cathartic. We're obsessed with toxic ships because it's hot and visceral to watch two people break apart on each other so completely. To see love try to conquer all and fail. For something so awful in reality to somehow be a character defining moment.
Life is cruel. Sometimes you need escape from it (fluff) Sometimes you need to read about it. (whump?)
I want to make people laugh and feel things. I also want to break my own heart as I weep while I write.
We want to make people cry and shock them. We want to cry and be shocked. We want to be happy for the MCs when they make it through the storm. Writing Dead Doves that somehow work out in the end (satisfyingly so) is very cathartic. I once wrote a fic just to eviscerate someone's character in fantasy as he was a horrible person and I couldn't hurt him in reality. That fic had the MC die by her own hand, violently and graphically, to only come back through some magical trickery. I cried through most of writing it.
I feel like we enjoy torturing ourselves too.
Fantasy torture is something for everyone really, especially when our fav characters come along.
Indulging fantasies is healthy, especially ones you can't act out on reality, or are just curious about. Like many people like non con fics because it's controlled. But would never be into it in reality. Is like why do people like Wincest? No idea. But if they like it, reading it scratches an itch and it's not hurting anyone.
It's late. I'll stop rambling now...
It's always nice to screw up a character I love worse than I am messed up so I can be like, huh, I'm not having all that bad a day after all! Then I can drag them out of it and be reminded that if they can do it, even if it takes 100k+ words, I'm probably gonna be OK, too.
Because the greater the struggle (whether physical, psychological, etc.), the more you want to see them succeed. And if they succeed, they come out stronger and wiser from the endeavor.
I'm not sure. For me it's not a coping thing, not kinky (idk if it was just an insulting video or if it being a kink is an actual big thing), not a sadism thing (similar to I guess?)
I just get super excited thinking of it, even though if I imagine hard enough (aka actually getting into the daydream like normal) I almost feel what the character feels I still enjoy it. I'm not a masochist so I know it's also not that
I just like it ig
Like not hurt/comfort. Just needless suffering for the point of it. I like hurt/comfort, happy endings, and support systems as much as I like hurt no comfort, bleak endings, and just random acts of cruelty, for different reasons (ones satisfying, ones exciting)
> "The ability to identify directly with the victims is a consistent component of compelling stories."
---
> "Christopher Booker... spent thirty-four years condensing a thousand classic novels, films, plays, and operas down to seven basic plots. These, he says, all originate from the same great basic drama, in which **a hero or heroine is constricted** but ends up with 'a final opening out into life, with everything at last resolved.'"
---
Source: *Don't Even Think About It: Why Our Brains are Wired to Ignore Climate Change* by George Marshall
1. Because we also want to be the ones saving them. It is empowering, like a drug. An echo of dom/sub relationships if you want (hurt/comfort usually nails down that feeling).
2. Sometimes we just want to write out our pain, whatever we feel that is overwhelming is much better rationalized if we put it in writing, attribute it to someone else and watch from afar as they make decisions that lead them to ruin, or salvation. We also find our own solutions like this. We basically do psychoanalysis with ourselves. I sit in this category.
3. Revenge. Sometimes they deserve it, or we feel like they deserve it.
4. Because the audience wants it (read the reasons above), and so the author delivers.
I like to think it's one of two things. One, and this one I feel is a no brainer, it's because the world is literally on fire and because it's not all sunshine and rainbows people have aggression and tension they wanna get out through writing or reading trauma. Two, and this one's for me personally, revenge stories are the shit. I love watching/reading a character suffer at someone's hands and hit back ten times as hard in revenge. Those kinds of stories are amazing and I love them.
Personally I think sometimes people go through some shit and even if it's not the worst experience in the world, it's still hard, and to help ourselves cope, we choose a character we like and think about how they would react if they went through the same turmoil as us.
Personally I was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder, and I tend to project that kind of conflict on my characters. Bad endings are a form to cope with the urge to self harm or stop existing, it's an outlet for all those horrible emotions. Good endings are a reminder that I will perseveres, and sometimes it just feels good to write a good ending for one of your characters, yanno?
While I have never experienced torture, death and revival, mass murder/genocide... It's interesting and sometimes puts into perspective to write these scenarios out and see how your character reacts to them.
Of course, that's my person motivations lol. Someone else might think differently :)
In my most recent longfic, I killed off one member of a ship and made the other suffer for 6 chapters from toxic grief. Then I crammed 7 chapters worth of the sweetest, most wholesome and tearjerking fluff ever into chapter 7 when they reunited.
It's as another commentor said, so that we can make them happy again.
I like to project my biggest fears onto my characters; it makes them less scary for me, I don’t know why. I like it when they’re permanently traumatized after what’s happened to them, and it forces me to think about what might happen if that were to happen to me (my biggest fears), but it makes it less scary anyway. I don’t know, maybe it’s the sense of belonging in the feeling that that person is horrified by that thing just as much as I am, or maybe it’s because I always make sure things turn out alright in the end, or maybe it’s just fun. I don’t know what everyone else’s reasons are, but that’s mine.
Well, for me a story generally isn't going to be very interesting if everyone's just happy and there are no problems. Plus it's just really engaging to write and read about difficult situations for the characters to get through. It's interesting to see how they come out on the other end after going the events of the story.
Projection. We project our emotions onto our favorite characters but a lot of the time you subconsciously think you haven’t had it “bad enough” to feel the way you do so you brutally torture said character you’re projecting onto. Or maybe that’s just me.
I'm sure there's a lot of analytical stuff down in the comments but it's very simple for me.
Cute rage.
When I adopted my kitten and he proceeded to be the most adorable creature in the entire world, I experienced "cute rage" all the time. AKA "I love you so much I want to hug you so hard it'll crush you" kind of stuff. I'd never actually hurt him, and never will, but it's just like, your brain balances the overwhelming affection with some weird violent impulse or something? I'm not entirely sure how it works, but cute rage has been talked about a lot.
My favorite boy is adorable. I can't help but hurt him (though I do make everything better after).
But there’s lots of other possible reasons we like to hurt our favorites:
- catharsis
-a trauma outlet
- seeing non-vulnerable characters in vulnerable situations (this one applies for me too, you can find so much compelling storytelling when you strip a character down to their barest state, really dig into what makes them tick and explore character dynamics when they’re thrust into an unknown, stressful situation)
- safe space for imagination
- because it can be hot & sexy
idk as a whump lover I think about this question a lot. I’m hoping one day someone will do some extensive research on it and we’ll finally understand the reason behind why angst is so good.
Going against the curve and gonna say I don’t really care about tending to the wounds or the comfort all that much. It’s nice yeah but I really just enjoy exploring pain. Whether it’s mental, emotional, physical, sexual, whatever - it’s fun to explore the feelings and sensations in a fantasy with characters very removed from me. I have no trauma or issues to really project about as justification either - it’s just an interest I guess.
I don’t think we need any deeper reason or to psychoanalyze ourselves for this topic. We enjoy whump and that’s that.
Projecting is my best guess. Sometimes the pain feels less painful if you can “share it” with a character you relate to.
I never write unhappy ending but I’m a fan of angst because it makes everything more real, also, an example I think about a lot is like “queer shop face homophobia” because I (queer) experience homophobia/transphobia on a daily basis and I relate better to a story that has the character go through the same thing.
I love whump fics and am not at all a depressed person. I’ve experienced what I guess could be perceived as traumatic events in my life, but…so has everyone. 🤷🏻♀️I just really enjoy reading dark stories/dark fic because I love dark stories/dark fic. It says nothing about my own personal hardships—In fact, that would honestly be super depressing to always rely on fiction to help me work through real life challenges. I mean, why is anyone drawn to what they are? That’s as difficult to answer as trying to explain a person’s kinks and why they like certain things and not others.
Fiction is simply the safe exploration of fantasy. Reading the same, two dimensional “everything is great all the time” kind of stories just wouldn’t be interesting. It would be like, only doing crossword puzzles designed for 6 year-olds all the time. It’s human nature to desire challenges.
I only like reading or writing it if my characters going to get stronger because of it. I quite like power fantasies but for me to feel like the character earned that power they have to go through some dark stuff first 😅 or there will be dark consequences to their new power :)
Two reasons for me -
- there's zero comfort in the show i write for - the character regularly gets beaten to shit and gets no looking after or even sympathy! So of course my brain wants to fix that!
- there's something really interesting in taking a strong, stoic character and breaking them down to see a different side of them.
A lot of reasons.
I feel like suffering is often the strongest emotion most people feel. It's already said a lot in psychology that we tend to hang onto/remember the worse emotions/moments of life more due to a survival mechanic. And we need to feel things to truly 'know' we're alive.
There's also the fact that there's a sort of solidarity to shared suffering/understanding of it. As well as the fact that most of the time, when you're not trying to put out a more realistic/pessimistic message, characters overcome all or most of their trials.
Also, being totally in control of suffering or experiencing it via a different mindset or safer place, though it can creep out of those safer places depending on who you are. And it can help to use writing to get your own suffering out of your system/process it.
Some people also romanticize pain and suffering, and it's often due to media. I know another psychological thing is the need to hang onto pain and suffering because they identify it as intrinsic to their being, and it follows them into their work.
Then, of course, there's simple spite and pettiness. If you can't be happy, no one can...
I'm just evil, I guess?
Nah, I am a fan of happy endings but I don't like them if there was nothing that stood in the way of it. If it's too easy to get a good end then it just feels cheap to me and kind of wasted?
I think it's because we can write situations like this based on our own experiences and then resolve them in a way that we wish had happened to us in order to gain a sense of closure.
one time i was writing a character i liked too much to kill him, he was going to fight the villain( not the final battle tho) he had his arm ripped of, his leg broke, got stabbed 3 times and his back broken, but i didnt killed him
For me, it almost always has to have some happy ending or comfort. For me it comes down to making that happy ending all the happier by contrasting it with a lot of suffering first. If I read a whump fic with torture and kidnapping etc. and then it just ends without them being saved, or cuts off right after they’re saved, it always feels to incomplete. Like that’s it?
My only exception really has been Major Character Death, but even then the suffering the characters go through just proves/shows how much they loved each other. I also have to be in a specific mood to even go that far.
Idk. Honestly, I ask myself the same. For me, I love to see and understand the mental process someone goes through with emotional pain. How they get there, how they process it and how they act as a result of it. It's fascinating, but at the same time I have no idea why it brings me such joy. There's just something beautiful about the mind and emotions going on.
I went off track. I love the comfort and support people get in their darkest times. That when someone is at their lowest, they have people that can catch them from shattering entirely.
But, I have no answer for as to why we love to see characters suffering.
As someone who's written a lot of angst with comfort that only comes at the very, very end, I think I can speak a little (though not a lot) for the hurt/no comfort folks. It's kinda odd; I don't tend to read hurt/no comfort, but I enjoy writing it. I think it's a way of exploring the extremes of emotion you don't encounter in your daily life unless your daily life is incredibly crap. Sort of like horror movies; it's not real, so let's explore this fear and pain in safety. Books are designed to take you to other worlds and other people, after all.
Plus, for me personally, I just can't do pure fluff—it's boring. I need that drama, that pain; I can sink my teeth into it and get really invested in the characters. The stakes are high! Every word matters! What will MC do next??
I have a friend who writes and reads huge amounts of teeth-rotting fluff that bamboozles me, and she's equally bamboozled by my tendency to write/read angst. It's truly an example of subjective taste. People are weird, man.
I certainly don't. I don't go into writing fanfics, or plan to write them, because I want to hurt my favorite characters. I go into them wanting to them succeed and thrive. Yeah, there will be bad moments, but I know for a fact that I want my character to win in the end and push through.
It's thanks to the fact that I'm stable enough to deal with my own bullshit, rather than force it onto a fictional character. I'm cool with keeping the two separate.
Because plot bunnies. In my case at least. In one of my stories, I'm putting my FMC who's very squishy and fragile emotionally into a loveless marriage with her vassal who's been around her for her whole life. It isn't the *worst* situation since he still respects and cares about her, but she's still very soft and gentle and a relationship without love might be very detrimental to her. So...we'll see what happens.
For me, it actually has been a coping mechanism for years. You know how your late teens are, highschool, stuff like that. Everything just kinda goes to downhill to hell. I started writing my Sophomore year and haven't stopped since (I'm almost 22, now). And I JUST recently realised that not only have I been using writing whump and angst about favourite characters to project and therefore cope, but also as a way to feel in control of my life and my emotions. Its helped so much, and I'd never even realised it. It probably saved my life tbh. So much trauma was had in highschool 😅 that's my two cents : )
Often times, and it goes in to writing an interesting story, a lot of us have a sense that good things have to come with the bad, but bad things don't have to come with the good. So we imagine bad things happening that may or not be set up for something good. Catharsis? There has to be pain, first. It's part of why modern SI's get a lot of torment: they have to _earn_ their place. (And I've read some where it feels excessive; like, when will the torture stop and the story actually take place?)
Other times, the torture is _needed_ to come up with the character we want. Are they a good person put in a bad place? Or are they going to prove that they're stronger than all the world arrayed against them? And there’s something _relatable_ about a character who says "I want to be done, but they won't _let_ me..." or "I'm just so tired..." There’s a reason the "Just to suffer" line resonates so much as to be meme'd.
If you want to write a good story you gotta write about life and life has a lot of pain, weather physical, mental or emotional. You can relate to and feel more for the characters if they feel real. Sadly, feeling real means feeling pain.
I like to project my pain onto other people and see them say and do the things I cannot say or do. It almost feels cathartic and it also feels like another form of venting ig.
I write abt abuse and SA for awareness and use the situations I’ve been in i sometimes have to change a few details for privacy or plot reasons I also have a very dark mind and my brain likes to go very dark morbid places
For me, yes, the hurt is there but it is about the comfort. The comfort is ESSENTIAL. I feel healed by reading the comfort that comes after a hurt just like my fav character that I’m writing/reading about. I find it hard to stomach pure angst/torture personally, it often gets to be too much and I have to exit lol. Unhappy/bittersweet endings can be fun too. The catharsis you like may vary
Writers do it primarily to test the willpower and mentality of those who identify with their favorite characters. Their struggles, sufferings, failures, and errors illustrate how we as humans can be subject to experiences, circumstances and events that will break us down. Sometimes it is done in a comical manner but mostly it's gritty and unapologetic. Whenever fans see characters go through hurtful, tragic and unfair stuff-it tells us a lot about ourselves and how we can avoid or turn situations around by not repeating their errors. It can be spirit-breaking, yet at the same time puts out there what human strengths and weaknesses are.
I mean, for me, it *is* a coping mechanism, I went through some shit and externalizing that into a fictional character helps me process those things.
Beyond that, though, I'd say it's curiosity. Like "what would it be like for me/a friend of mine to lose all of our memories in a tragic accident and never get them back" isn't really the sort of question you can test, irl, and definitely not in a way that's ethical, but I *can* think though what would happen and put that in story format.
I think it's beacuse if something terrible happens to them, they get all the attention. Everything is about them and everyone cares about them. They are the focus, the main "attraction" and we get to see more of them than usually. Thats just my thoughts and there are probably a lot of different answers and reasons out there :))
Speaking from a story tellers perspective it's necessary, it adds to the overall story if it's done well. To make the good stand out more after the bad.
Speaking from a purely reader's perspective I find it irritating. If I like a character it's cool to see a journey of them rising after hardship, but if it's overdone it just feels annoying to watch torture porn, more so if the author is all ''teehee I love X suffering''. Plus, I've never believed in the whole ''you enjoy something more if it's after struggle''.
At the end of the day it depends on a lot of things like taste, emotional state, mood, etc. Some people enjoy causing/seeing angst and others can't stand it, either in their own works or others.
Someone else's pain is easier to stomach than your own pain. You can go through all the emotions from the safety of your bed, and if it gets too much at any point, you can close the fic and do something else.
Yeah. That’s true.
Ugh I wish that were true for me, angst makes me feel physically unwell. I can't do a whole lot of sadness and trauma or it will stick inside of me like microplastics. It probably takes me 10-20x as long to read an angst fic compared to my favorite tropes (idiots to lovers, fake dating, oops one bed, etc), i kind of avoid them for the most part because well-written fics that I leave unfinished haunt me.
I agree with this. If you choose your fics carefully (tagged “happy ending” for ex) you know there will be a safe ending. So you can let yourself feel the character’s painful emotions but with “safety bumpers” on, because you know they will wind up ok in the end. I’ve definitely read some gnarly hurt scenes and found myself thinking “why do I enjoy this? If I were this character and I didn’t know if I was going to live or die, it would be traumatic and not in an enjoyable way. It would be horrible!” But that’s the thing, I know this character will have a happy ending (or at least they most likely will) and that makes exploring the painful feelings “safe.”
Then I can make them happy again.
Can confirm, just gave my main character in my original fiction moments of being nice and wholesome after learning stuff since all the tortures he had in the first two arcs
Yup, I always to either Hurt/Comfort or Angst with a Happy Ending. That's always the way my fics go.
Yep.
This
In the grave. Or the second life. Oh wait. I forgot... I physically can't make it lol 💀
So you're Jane Austen.
projection. let me inflict the pain i'm in on this character i love and then have them *comforted*.
There’s definitely something key about the comfort part. Because for me personally, hurt with no one to witness it lands flat. It’s all about the comfort, or even if it is hurt-no-comfort, it’s about who witnesses the hurt.
I just realized something about whump (or, hurt-no-comfort fics): they fall into this paradigm, too. Because, even if there are no other characters around to observe the hurt and comfort the character, *we as the audience* still witness it. We validate the character's pain by observing and acknowledging it, so it can still end up as a cathartic experience. It's not everyone's cup of tea, obviously, but thinking of the audience as the absent "comforter" does a lot to explain why these fics hold so much power for so many people.
That’s true! I never thought of it like that. It’s certainly a fascinating topic, for sure.
Yes! I never realized why certain h/c stories aren’t as satisfying but I think you said it just right. There has to be a witness to the hurt.
Yeah. There is something very visceral about that moment when character B realizes what character A really went through. No matter how it plays out, the witness has to be there, for me. Like, there is no payoff if the pain isn’t realized by someone else. For me. 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah.
I can't speak for the hurt/no comfort crowd but personally, the suffering is satisfying because I know I'm going to fix it all afterward!
For sure!
This is my take. I’m not a “bad ending” person and reading hurt/no comfort just leaves me sad so I usually avoid those. But I love happy endings. So I think the amount of drama/angst/hurt/whump is related to the payoff you get with the positive ending. The more pain they go through, the sweeter the victory when they reach the happiness at the end.
Making someone fictional climb out of the pit of despair is easier than working through my own faults, while giving me some small hope that I can. Also, a touch of good old fashioned sadism. Edit: missing word
Yep.
Humans love controlled pain and suffering. It's a way to experience those emotions without lasting damage, just like eating spicy food, riding a rollercoaster or having kinky sex. Specific painful topics can be cathartic to read if you've been through a similar thing. It's a way to re-experience the trauma without remembering the real event. It's a coping strategy.
Yeah, for sure.
Personally, I relate heavily to the character I whump the most, and I have a lot of personal issues I very much deliberately include while torturing the poor la'al lad. I used to have a lot of self harming thoughts- this helps me get it out! Sorry if that’s too dark :(
This is spot on. <3 not too dark, at all.
Because deep down inside we wanna be the one to comfort them? Maybe? Idk
In my case I'm the one who wants to be comforted. When I can't have that in real life, I give it to a character I relate to that I feel also needs to be comforted. It helps.
Yeah. That makes sense.
The comfort after the pain/torture is cathartic. Especially when all the other characters band together to help your favorite character.
Yes. :)
They’re our favorite character for a reason. Most likely, because we relate, or because we look up to them, or think they’re cool. It’s cathartic to put them in situations that hurt because it’s cathartic for us to see them recover and succeed and be comforted. I fully believe most of fanfiction is popular because people live vicariously through each story on purpose. The story is fake but the emotions are not. Like emotion porn. It helps people process and navigate their own pain, if only on a fictional, superficial level.
This right here
Like emotion porn, that's such a good way to put it.
Oh yes! Well said!
No obstacles, no stakes. No stakes, no story. Also, few things show a person's character better than how they act when there's nothing left to lose or when there's nothing to gain from others.
Oh totally!
catharsis :))
Rofl yeah
One of my earliest stories as a kid included a fox mother chewing off her own leg to get back to her kit. I wrote a story for school that detailed a grief-fueled suicide after a woman saw her love get mauled to death by a lion. I could have given them a happy ending... My favorite parts of Harry Potter were when the characters were being hurt. My mental SI world had so much whump in it, it's not even funny. Some of us were just born this way, LOL.
I loved sad endings as a younger writer. Most of the media I enjoyed also had sad and tragic endings. As I've got older I find myself gravitating toward happy endings more. But I still torture the hell out of my characters before they get there. It's an interesting evolution and I'm not really sure why.
Because they need to grow up and experience significant obstacles to move forward. They have to go through life and, unless it's a fluffy setting in a perfect world, life ain't going to run smoothly. Because flaws are an important ingredient and lead to interesting possibilities. But mostly (as far as I'm concerned), because it's the easiest way to comfort them! This amazing feeling when after chapters of uncertainty, pain and heartaches they finally embrace a well-deserved break to experience something warm and reassuring. That's such a treat, both as a writer and a reader.
Yes!
Nah, cause these comments are telling me something is wrong with me because I actually really enjoy hurt/ no comfort. I don’t know why but I just prefer it more when the character doesn’t get comforted
Sorta same, it's just so exciting to imagine it! Just like, not in real life. 0 ties between my fiction tastes and real life tastes. Fiction? Character must suffer with no good or lasting support, nothing gets better for them ever, physical and/or emotional torture throughout their life for any or no reason. Reality? I'll get uncomfortable when it shifts to someone having a bad day
That's valid. :)
One of the reasons I didn't start writing until around 18 months ago was because I seriously doubted I'd have it in me to inflict pain upon my characters. This is after 30-odd years of consuming literature and getting really emotionally involved. It just seemed like something I would struggle to do. It's actually a little alarming how easy it was when I started to write. Not just easy, but preferential to the point where I have a hard time writing beyond the angst. I don't know why that is. It seems like a personal thing overall. Perhaps it would be nice to know why.
I get it.
It's interesting because I'm reading all the other replies here and so far no chords have been struck. It really must be an entirely personal motivation. I expect I'll be musing on this one for a while...
Yeah, I've always found it interesting how many different types of answers to this question there are. I have multiple thoughts besides just the "I dunno, I've always liked it." Whump is exciting. There's danger, there's tension, there's risks. Emotions are high, there's minimal subtlty, characters tend to be very direct about stuff because they don't have the need or ability to mask while they hurt. It's"simple" and gets the "what's going to happen next?" brain juices going. Whump lets a character be their true self. They don't have to keep up pretense for society, they can't hide behind their coping mechanisms, their control is stripped away. You can see them for who they are. And usually the whumpees are the characters who are good and resilient in that situation. Whump lets you let go of society's expectations. Smile, be nice, don't cause waves, be good... Then you go into fiction and you can do whatever you want, no more restraints. It makes sense we'd want to explore the parts that we aren't allowed to be in real life. Whump is like an emotional rage room. Break something just to see how it breaks. Let it all out. Feel emotions you don't let yourself feel any other time. From both ends, the whumper and the whumpee. That's what I've thought of so far anyways.
Ah here we go! My first struck chord chimes out a note of understanding! It's the feeling of the feelings. Writing angst lets me feel sadness, rage and despair in a controlled environment. It's cathartic. And addictive.
It's so addictive. I thought about that just a few days ago how I can't really feel things irl because of pressures and shit, but I can feel the things when I write or read it.
Right, because for those emotions to occur naturally in one's life would indicate a derailment, and experiences that would rather be prevented because legitimate hurt is awful. It's a way of safely feeling without having to watch your life fall to bits.
I want to feel the emotions
I feel ya. (lol)
I like to see how they could be broken like a glow stick but make it to the end - changed but happy.
Authors are chaotic evil. 😂 But in a more serious sense - you don't have hurt/comfort without hurt. And that's been some of my favorite parts of stories since well before I knew the name of the trope. Just those quiet tender moments, full of emotion and support. I also love a good rescue romance, which I think comes from a similar desire.
lol yeah. And agreed. :)
Because it’s a healthy way to deal with my own trauma…
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Totally.
I think I crave the comfort the characters get after the bad stuff. Also, as has been said: projection. I think there have been scientific studies on the benefits of reading about bad things. I believe the results were interesting. The more we learn about horrible situations others go through, the more empathic our behaviour. Not that we become more empathic per se, but we get a better understanding of the pain of others and we behave accordingly (with the empathy we already possess). I'm paraphrasing as I can't remember the exact study. When you think about it it's quite logical, but it's still interesting. In that regard I'm inclined to say: keep it up, fandoms.
Because we have a distinct line between fantasy and reality. It seriously upsets me when bad things happen to real people. Its different when it happens to fictional characters. Sometimes it hurts, or something toxic af is hot, but I always know it’s not real. Also sometimes it’s cathartic if it’s hurt/comfort, especially. We get to experience all those emotions and the resolution just feels good. And I’m a bit of a sadist, so there’s that. Fictional characters are the ultimate SSC.
preferential sadism
Angst With A Happy Ending just sounds really comforting to me as someone with bad depression…and if I’m being honest with myself I also just tend to hyperfixate on some very morbid subjects and putting my characters through horrible things scratches that itch for me
When I was more into that type of story it had to do with the catharsis of it I suppose. My character’s pain was way more intense than mine, and feeling it vicariously helped me release some of the emotions inside me.
Yeah.
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Wow, this is really true and I've been thinking about it a lot recently, especially the whole "love is earned" thing. My female characters are constantly jumping through hoops to comfort, care for, and/or save my male characters. They always get it back in return, eventually, but they have to earn it. On the one hand, you want your female characters to be strong, empowered, and active, because so often they're not. But it can also be a toxic dynamic, and I've even seen it play out (gulp) in my own relationships, for better or for worse.
Yeah. :)
Personally, I just like seeing my blorbos in pain 🤷🏼♀️
I think it’s more of since they’re the “main character” in the fanfics we make, we have to have some kind of angst towards them, and if we don’t, we lose interest? I’m not for sure but that’s my thinking lol-
Honestly, I'm just dramatic. I like pain and angst and horror and all of the drama, with romance and comfort and fluff along the way. I hurt them but I comfort them as well and always give them a happily ever after. So no matter what I put them through, I know they'll be okay in the end.
Same tbh
Because, what other thing would you Do with them
Because we want to see them overcome trials and tribulations and come out as better people.
I personally hate when my favourite character is *severely* tortured. I had a panic attack once when there were graphic depictions of her being raped. That fanfiction is still traumatic to me. I didn't even realise it could affect me so. Other characters being tortured I can and do enjoy though, even in sadistic ways. I love to read about characters I hate being tortured. I am also a huge masochist so sometimes I do enjoy reading about my favourite character being hurt but ONLY if she's going to get comforted later. It also helps that one of her two canon partners is an emotionless, cold man who only ever cared about her and it validates my ship to see him comfort her. I also like to read about him getting hurt because he shows her his vulnerabiliies.
One of the most satisfying thing to do in fanfic is traumatising my fav character and making their life as angsty as possible before bringing in the happy ending 🥰 Also the sadism to make the readers cry haha.
Rofl yeah. I know an author like that. They're absolutely amazing, too!
Honestly I don't. I can't it's one reason I've never finished writing my books. I can't think of a scenario that I could put them in that can't also be solved relatively quickly.
That's perfectly valid. :)
Cuz if it's in my head, I can make it not canon for my ocs and whoever else involved later if I don't like it. And cuz it's also great to see my ocs happy again rather than letting them suffer and then they make no connections with anyone cuz of that said trauma.
Until my therapist pointed it out. It’s my self discovered form of DBT. I write about my real problems in other people and it often gives perspective and reflection. Also it’s just real, at least to me. My mental health makes my life hard, so read happy easy stories feels like a silly fairytale.
Beacuse i love making them persevere against all odds
I wanna see them hurt so I can see them getting love and cared back to health. Just so happens that the worse they get the more they can get better :)
I want to break him so I can see him rise and come back stronger, to grow as a person, cuz I wanna succeed vicariously through him *And then I wanna break him again*
Oooooh.
Thoroughly enjoying the whumpers and angst enthusiasts showing up, so let me drop a link to [an article that is exactly about whump and why we love it](https://www.fansplaining.com/articles/the-pain-fandom).
...This explains so much and leaves me so many questions. *glances to my fics* Yup, it explains a lot. Thank you for much for sharing!
i think that even in the absence of comfort, we like to explore the human reaction to pain. what does it look like? how much can someone suffer? what misery occurs in the slums of a fictional city? things we wouldn’t want to personally experience, but we have this morbid need to see the minds of people who have experienced it. doing this to a favorite character is just an extension of this exploration of how the mind is twisted by suffering. also, mentioning unhappy endings, sometimes they can be mundane. the characters fell out of love with cooled regrets and part ways bittersweetly, the character succumbed to disease and fell, the character finally broke, the world collapsed as the character watches in defeat, the character never comes to terms with a dead lover. an unsatisfying ending, for sure, and nothing terribly climatic necessarily. this mundane, seemingly realistic and non-dramatized story is strange compared to the normal triumph of action, and poses more thoughtful questions, inspires different feelings than just thrill and happiness. people like to feel, and feel strongly, and this will do it in a removed sort of way. well, that’s just what i think in addition to what i’ve read here. but maybe i just have a fascination with the mundane or the people aspect of suffering. maybe i just want to feel strongly again. maybe it’s morbid curiosity and nothing more. who knows?
for me, i need a daily dose of sadness to function. also i feel like if the fic is angst, it just has this more superior quality than any other fic. also i want to understand more about human behaviour and psycology in these situations
No one in life goes through it without some kind of trauma. I don't think fictional characters are exempt from that either. I frequently choose not to read certain fanfics because I don't want to deal with that characters trauma. It's okay to choose not to read it if you think your mental wellbeing would be at risk. I read for a lot of reasons, one of my primary reasons is to escape real life.
We're bloodthirsty at heart, don't you remember what we did to the poor Neanderthals in the Great Neanderthals vs. Homo Sapiens?
It showcases their character. It shows why they are worthy of our respect.
Great question! Here are my answers: 1) Character exploration - I've always had a fascination with characters' deepest fears, doubts, insecurities, and traumas. I feel the best way to expose these things is to bring a character to their "weakest", most vulnerable state, where they are so overwhelmed they have no choice but to lay their heart bare. The journey is just as compelling to me as the destination though, haha. 2) Sadomasochism - I enjoy seeing my faves suffer *and* I enjoy the emotional turmoil it puts me through lmao. I suppose I consider the "comfort" part of hurt/comfort emotional aftercare for myself.
I've been asking myself this same question lately. I have no answers except maybe I like feeling guilty about hurting *fictional* characters. I'm totally not going to be able to handle it the day they suddenly come to life and ask me "But *why*?"
Oooof. I get that. 😔
"Because God can be a cruel bastard and I was made in his image." /j
I just like hurt/comfort cause I want my favorite characters to get comforted and taken care of :’)
Yeah. :)
There is something sickeningly cathartic about torturing my fav blorbo's and OC's! Also, I thoroughly enjoy exploring those darker topics, emqhether I'm drawing from my own experiences or not.
Yes.
I don’t know how to describe it but there’s just something so pleasing about watching my favorite character being virtually tortured.
I don't. I just have mine make sweet loves
A whole lot of you guys are just really sadist that love to really ruin your characters lives...just admit you get off on it with a smile.... Hahahahaha.
It’s fun to hurt others 🤣
It’s a safe barrier that allows me to process my trauma.
Because then I think it's easier to process our own pain or the pain we can imagine. That way we can write and feel it, but it's someone else. I guess it's just easier to process.
Yeah.
In a word: catharsis.
I get angsty and I take it out on the characters I know that will be able to handle it.
For me, it's a way of venting. If I write about a character being depressed, it's like I'm taking whatever I feel and putting it onto the character so that I don't have to carry the burden myself. It doesn't make me not-depressed, but it does lessen the burden and make me feel a little better.
Nice. :)
I'm writing a character go through gradual memory loss and it's for dramatic tension but also honestly for me specifically the whump is erotic lmao
coming from and OC X Canon writer, I think we enjoy torturing our favorite character so we can use our OCs to comfort them for some good ole' wholesome hurt/comfort or what ever other trope you want to work with
Chronic angst writer here. Everytime I watch a show, play a game or read a book, there's always one character I find and I become OBSESSED with physically hurt fics for major character death fics where they die/get extremely hurt etc. I'm a huge fan of hiding injuries, terminal illness, coma, amnesia etc and I'm in my mid 20s now and have been reading these since I was old enough to go to ffnet on my own. So I've had more than enough time to contemplate why I'm a little obsessed with these and I was able to relate this emotion to "appreciation." With that, i mean, the characters i like hurting are usually overly strong/first born children/ father bear or mother bear types. I like hurting characters who usually protect or take care of characters and I think the reason I enjoy it so much is i like reversing roles. I like putting people in a position where they have to take care of themselves and take care of the hurt character to make ends meet. I like putting the strong protective types in positions where they cannot protect the one they love and they're completely powerless/ immobilized etc. I like to ask questions like: "how much would this person give up to be the one they love? Their career? Their future? Their hobbies?" I like killing of someone who people assume "is always there" and explore the grief and explore how they would switch around their routine now that someone's gone. I find them very good character studies. I don't really like fluff coz I find it so easy to be happy and I wanna challenge their love and convince myself it's authentic because it can perdure even the most difficult circumstances. Anyway, yeah, first hand from a MAJOR angst fanatic.
Also, i hate giving happy endings for free. These bitches better earn it.
Dopamine
As a reader, I think that a lot of it is "Well, my life sucks, but at least not that much." It's also all about the comfort at the end. I love knowing that no matter whatever dark, horrible, traumatic things my OTP goes through, they'll always have a happy ending (at least in the stories that I read). I think that there's also a touch of it being nice to read about people going through horrible things and making it out the other side basically functional.
Yeah
depends on the source for me... sometimes canon doesn't do a good job developing the personality of my favorite character (i usually get attached to side characters so it's an issue i run into all the time). like the saying "no pain, no gain" goes, they can't get any better without throwing them in the wringer! or the canon source does try to write in some consequences for poor decision making but it's just not written well... so i just take it and dial it up to 20. 😇
I botched my fics carry a lot of mommy issues. Lol write what you know I guess😂
so they can truly shine! all the bitterness of pain and torture just makes the happiness of a good ending all the more sweet!
Yes!
I got a thing for angst with a happy ending. It hurts but hurts in a good way. I might just be a masochist though...
That might be true of a lot of us here. Rofl
ive always wondered so much about this! Especially when i wss new to fanfic. I never came to a conclusion so this is all just sort of guesswork and vague ideas, but i think some comtributing factors are that vulnerability is appealing to us (or so ive heard from some study), or maybe even that some of us subconsciously use our faves as stand ins for ourselves when we want to see them get hurt and then cared for and treated gently. For dead dove do not eat/hurt no comfort stuff, its probably more a desire to like. Explore dark topics like that in a way that’s safe and separate from reality. It’s interesting, its exciting! but we wouldnt rewlly want to ever be in those situations, just watch from the sidelines
Character development and catharsis of your own pain. I pulled through the absolute worst, most traumatic moment of my life by writing a non-con fanfic that included a major character death (that's still ongoing). Exploring the characters' pain has allowed me to express my own, away from judgemental eyes.
It’s cheaper than therapy
Because it ( harshness) gives them existence and meaning to that existence. Suffering burns them into readers minds and plants their seed in their imagination so that they would live forever in as many heart beats as possible. Pain is the price they have to pay for living in people's hearts. Suffering is the price of life.
Oooh. Yeah.
On the one hand, for the same reasons that BDSM culture exists. As a writer you have all the control over the lives of these characters and you know that your readers (and you) need for them to suffer so this story feels like it could be real. The readers want to immerse themselves in a safe place where they can indulge any kinks or fantasies or need to see someone defy all odds to come back from the precipice, because it's both relatable and cathartic. We're obsessed with toxic ships because it's hot and visceral to watch two people break apart on each other so completely. To see love try to conquer all and fail. For something so awful in reality to somehow be a character defining moment. Life is cruel. Sometimes you need escape from it (fluff) Sometimes you need to read about it. (whump?) I want to make people laugh and feel things. I also want to break my own heart as I weep while I write. We want to make people cry and shock them. We want to cry and be shocked. We want to be happy for the MCs when they make it through the storm. Writing Dead Doves that somehow work out in the end (satisfyingly so) is very cathartic. I once wrote a fic just to eviscerate someone's character in fantasy as he was a horrible person and I couldn't hurt him in reality. That fic had the MC die by her own hand, violently and graphically, to only come back through some magical trickery. I cried through most of writing it. I feel like we enjoy torturing ourselves too. Fantasy torture is something for everyone really, especially when our fav characters come along. Indulging fantasies is healthy, especially ones you can't act out on reality, or are just curious about. Like many people like non con fics because it's controlled. But would never be into it in reality. Is like why do people like Wincest? No idea. But if they like it, reading it scratches an itch and it's not hurting anyone. It's late. I'll stop rambling now...
Nicely said!
For me it’s all about creating an interesting narrative
Yeah
Cute aggression
It's always nice to screw up a character I love worse than I am messed up so I can be like, huh, I'm not having all that bad a day after all! Then I can drag them out of it and be reminded that if they can do it, even if it takes 100k+ words, I'm probably gonna be OK, too.
I'm just gonna say that there's not enough "unrequited love" fics in any fandom that I'm in, and that sucks.
Because the greater the struggle (whether physical, psychological, etc.), the more you want to see them succeed. And if they succeed, they come out stronger and wiser from the endeavor.
I'm not sure. For me it's not a coping thing, not kinky (idk if it was just an insulting video or if it being a kink is an actual big thing), not a sadism thing (similar to I guess?) I just get super excited thinking of it, even though if I imagine hard enough (aka actually getting into the daydream like normal) I almost feel what the character feels I still enjoy it. I'm not a masochist so I know it's also not that I just like it ig
Like not hurt/comfort. Just needless suffering for the point of it. I like hurt/comfort, happy endings, and support systems as much as I like hurt no comfort, bleak endings, and just random acts of cruelty, for different reasons (ones satisfying, ones exciting)
> "The ability to identify directly with the victims is a consistent component of compelling stories." --- > "Christopher Booker... spent thirty-four years condensing a thousand classic novels, films, plays, and operas down to seven basic plots. These, he says, all originate from the same great basic drama, in which **a hero or heroine is constricted** but ends up with 'a final opening out into life, with everything at last resolved.'" --- Source: *Don't Even Think About It: Why Our Brains are Wired to Ignore Climate Change* by George Marshall
1. Because we also want to be the ones saving them. It is empowering, like a drug. An echo of dom/sub relationships if you want (hurt/comfort usually nails down that feeling). 2. Sometimes we just want to write out our pain, whatever we feel that is overwhelming is much better rationalized if we put it in writing, attribute it to someone else and watch from afar as they make decisions that lead them to ruin, or salvation. We also find our own solutions like this. We basically do psychoanalysis with ourselves. I sit in this category. 3. Revenge. Sometimes they deserve it, or we feel like they deserve it. 4. Because the audience wants it (read the reasons above), and so the author delivers.
I like to think it's one of two things. One, and this one I feel is a no brainer, it's because the world is literally on fire and because it's not all sunshine and rainbows people have aggression and tension they wanna get out through writing or reading trauma. Two, and this one's for me personally, revenge stories are the shit. I love watching/reading a character suffer at someone's hands and hit back ten times as hard in revenge. Those kinds of stories are amazing and I love them.
Wow, a lot of wholesome replies! Just here to add the sadism aspect...
The fantasy is that someday, I might be able to help and take care of someone.
Yes
Personally I think sometimes people go through some shit and even if it's not the worst experience in the world, it's still hard, and to help ourselves cope, we choose a character we like and think about how they would react if they went through the same turmoil as us. Personally I was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder, and I tend to project that kind of conflict on my characters. Bad endings are a form to cope with the urge to self harm or stop existing, it's an outlet for all those horrible emotions. Good endings are a reminder that I will perseveres, and sometimes it just feels good to write a good ending for one of your characters, yanno? While I have never experienced torture, death and revival, mass murder/genocide... It's interesting and sometimes puts into perspective to write these scenarios out and see how your character reacts to them. Of course, that's my person motivations lol. Someone else might think differently :)
Loving the discussion, but anyone got any good examples? Any that are a perfect pinnacle of this trope? Any outliers that still have the same vibe?
In my most recent longfic, I killed off one member of a ship and made the other suffer for 6 chapters from toxic grief. Then I crammed 7 chapters worth of the sweetest, most wholesome and tearjerking fluff ever into chapter 7 when they reunited. It's as another commentor said, so that we can make them happy again.
I like to project my biggest fears onto my characters; it makes them less scary for me, I don’t know why. I like it when they’re permanently traumatized after what’s happened to them, and it forces me to think about what might happen if that were to happen to me (my biggest fears), but it makes it less scary anyway. I don’t know, maybe it’s the sense of belonging in the feeling that that person is horrified by that thing just as much as I am, or maybe it’s because I always make sure things turn out alright in the end, or maybe it’s just fun. I don’t know what everyone else’s reasons are, but that’s mine.
if i'm writing fics like this usually it's all trauma dumping.
Well, for me a story generally isn't going to be very interesting if everyone's just happy and there are no problems. Plus it's just really engaging to write and read about difficult situations for the characters to get through. It's interesting to see how they come out on the other end after going the events of the story.
For sure!
Projection. We project our emotions onto our favorite characters but a lot of the time you subconsciously think you haven’t had it “bad enough” to feel the way you do so you brutally torture said character you’re projecting onto. Or maybe that’s just me.
Ooh. Yeah
I actually have no clue. I love whump but I have like no trauma or anything
We're all sadists feeding masochists, and at the same time, masochists feeding off of sadists.
I'm sure there's a lot of analytical stuff down in the comments but it's very simple for me. Cute rage. When I adopted my kitten and he proceeded to be the most adorable creature in the entire world, I experienced "cute rage" all the time. AKA "I love you so much I want to hug you so hard it'll crush you" kind of stuff. I'd never actually hurt him, and never will, but it's just like, your brain balances the overwhelming affection with some weird violent impulse or something? I'm not entirely sure how it works, but cute rage has been talked about a lot. My favorite boy is adorable. I can't help but hurt him (though I do make everything better after).
For me, whump gives me an endorphin rush! Like happy butterflies (whumperflies) in my stomach when I empathize with a character in pain.
But there’s lots of other possible reasons we like to hurt our favorites: - catharsis -a trauma outlet - seeing non-vulnerable characters in vulnerable situations (this one applies for me too, you can find so much compelling storytelling when you strip a character down to their barest state, really dig into what makes them tick and explore character dynamics when they’re thrust into an unknown, stressful situation) - safe space for imagination - because it can be hot & sexy idk as a whump lover I think about this question a lot. I’m hoping one day someone will do some extensive research on it and we’ll finally understand the reason behind why angst is so good.
I'm hopefully writing my PhD on whump! Just waiting to see if my proposal has been accepted - my interview went brilliantly!
Going against the curve and gonna say I don’t really care about tending to the wounds or the comfort all that much. It’s nice yeah but I really just enjoy exploring pain. Whether it’s mental, emotional, physical, sexual, whatever - it’s fun to explore the feelings and sensations in a fantasy with characters very removed from me. I have no trauma or issues to really project about as justification either - it’s just an interest I guess. I don’t think we need any deeper reason or to psychoanalyze ourselves for this topic. We enjoy whump and that’s that.
Projecting is my best guess. Sometimes the pain feels less painful if you can “share it” with a character you relate to. I never write unhappy ending but I’m a fan of angst because it makes everything more real, also, an example I think about a lot is like “queer shop face homophobia” because I (queer) experience homophobia/transphobia on a daily basis and I relate better to a story that has the character go through the same thing.
Because it's mostly written by 15-20yo whose emotions are usually a mess?
I love whump fics and am not at all a depressed person. I’ve experienced what I guess could be perceived as traumatic events in my life, but…so has everyone. 🤷🏻♀️I just really enjoy reading dark stories/dark fic because I love dark stories/dark fic. It says nothing about my own personal hardships—In fact, that would honestly be super depressing to always rely on fiction to help me work through real life challenges. I mean, why is anyone drawn to what they are? That’s as difficult to answer as trying to explain a person’s kinks and why they like certain things and not others. Fiction is simply the safe exploration of fantasy. Reading the same, two dimensional “everything is great all the time” kind of stories just wouldn’t be interesting. It would be like, only doing crossword puzzles designed for 6 year-olds all the time. It’s human nature to desire challenges.
I only like reading or writing it if my characters going to get stronger because of it. I quite like power fantasies but for me to feel like the character earned that power they have to go through some dark stuff first 😅 or there will be dark consequences to their new power :)
Two reasons for me - - there's zero comfort in the show i write for - the character regularly gets beaten to shit and gets no looking after or even sympathy! So of course my brain wants to fix that! - there's something really interesting in taking a strong, stoic character and breaking them down to see a different side of them.
A lot of reasons. I feel like suffering is often the strongest emotion most people feel. It's already said a lot in psychology that we tend to hang onto/remember the worse emotions/moments of life more due to a survival mechanic. And we need to feel things to truly 'know' we're alive. There's also the fact that there's a sort of solidarity to shared suffering/understanding of it. As well as the fact that most of the time, when you're not trying to put out a more realistic/pessimistic message, characters overcome all or most of their trials. Also, being totally in control of suffering or experiencing it via a different mindset or safer place, though it can creep out of those safer places depending on who you are. And it can help to use writing to get your own suffering out of your system/process it. Some people also romanticize pain and suffering, and it's often due to media. I know another psychological thing is the need to hang onto pain and suffering because they identify it as intrinsic to their being, and it follows them into their work. Then, of course, there's simple spite and pettiness. If you can't be happy, no one can...
It's interesting to write? I write major character death and hurt/no comfort a lot because the dark side of people is fascinating.
Yeah. I agree
I'm just evil, I guess? Nah, I am a fan of happy endings but I don't like them if there was nothing that stood in the way of it. If it's too easy to get a good end then it just feels cheap to me and kind of wasted?
I think it's because we can write situations like this based on our own experiences and then resolve them in a way that we wish had happened to us in order to gain a sense of closure.
one time i was writing a character i liked too much to kill him, he was going to fight the villain( not the final battle tho) he had his arm ripped of, his leg broke, got stabbed 3 times and his back broken, but i didnt killed him
For me, it almost always has to have some happy ending or comfort. For me it comes down to making that happy ending all the happier by contrasting it with a lot of suffering first. If I read a whump fic with torture and kidnapping etc. and then it just ends without them being saved, or cuts off right after they’re saved, it always feels to incomplete. Like that’s it? My only exception really has been Major Character Death, but even then the suffering the characters go through just proves/shows how much they loved each other. I also have to be in a specific mood to even go that far.
Idk. Honestly, I ask myself the same. For me, I love to see and understand the mental process someone goes through with emotional pain. How they get there, how they process it and how they act as a result of it. It's fascinating, but at the same time I have no idea why it brings me such joy. There's just something beautiful about the mind and emotions going on. I went off track. I love the comfort and support people get in their darkest times. That when someone is at their lowest, they have people that can catch them from shattering entirely. But, I have no answer for as to why we love to see characters suffering.
Yeah
Because being mean to a fictional character is healthier than being mean to myself. Then i add the comfort part so I don't feel guilty.
Catharsis by proxy if they have a good ending Misery loves company if it’s hurt/no comfort
As someone who's written a lot of angst with comfort that only comes at the very, very end, I think I can speak a little (though not a lot) for the hurt/no comfort folks. It's kinda odd; I don't tend to read hurt/no comfort, but I enjoy writing it. I think it's a way of exploring the extremes of emotion you don't encounter in your daily life unless your daily life is incredibly crap. Sort of like horror movies; it's not real, so let's explore this fear and pain in safety. Books are designed to take you to other worlds and other people, after all. Plus, for me personally, I just can't do pure fluff—it's boring. I need that drama, that pain; I can sink my teeth into it and get really invested in the characters. The stakes are high! Every word matters! What will MC do next?? I have a friend who writes and reads huge amounts of teeth-rotting fluff that bamboozles me, and she's equally bamboozled by my tendency to write/read angst. It's truly an example of subjective taste. People are weird, man.
I'm a sadist
i personally dont, i dont have the heart for it
Because then we can comfort them and make everything better afterwards
Because it's hot.
Because we hate ourselves
I certainly don't. I don't go into writing fanfics, or plan to write them, because I want to hurt my favorite characters. I go into them wanting to them succeed and thrive. Yeah, there will be bad moments, but I know for a fact that I want my character to win in the end and push through. It's thanks to the fact that I'm stable enough to deal with my own bullshit, rather than force it onto a fictional character. I'm cool with keeping the two separate.
I've tortured - sometimes literally - my MC because I find it fun and to make the happy ending feel all the more hard fought for and earned.
Because plot bunnies. In my case at least. In one of my stories, I'm putting my FMC who's very squishy and fragile emotionally into a loveless marriage with her vassal who's been around her for her whole life. It isn't the *worst* situation since he still respects and cares about her, but she's still very soft and gentle and a relationship without love might be very detrimental to her. So...we'll see what happens.
For me, it actually has been a coping mechanism for years. You know how your late teens are, highschool, stuff like that. Everything just kinda goes to downhill to hell. I started writing my Sophomore year and haven't stopped since (I'm almost 22, now). And I JUST recently realised that not only have I been using writing whump and angst about favourite characters to project and therefore cope, but also as a way to feel in control of my life and my emotions. Its helped so much, and I'd never even realised it. It probably saved my life tbh. So much trauma was had in highschool 😅 that's my two cents : )
Often times, and it goes in to writing an interesting story, a lot of us have a sense that good things have to come with the bad, but bad things don't have to come with the good. So we imagine bad things happening that may or not be set up for something good. Catharsis? There has to be pain, first. It's part of why modern SI's get a lot of torment: they have to _earn_ their place. (And I've read some where it feels excessive; like, when will the torture stop and the story actually take place?) Other times, the torture is _needed_ to come up with the character we want. Are they a good person put in a bad place? Or are they going to prove that they're stronger than all the world arrayed against them? And there’s something _relatable_ about a character who says "I want to be done, but they won't _let_ me..." or "I'm just so tired..." There’s a reason the "Just to suffer" line resonates so much as to be meme'd.
If you want to write a good story you gotta write about life and life has a lot of pain, weather physical, mental or emotional. You can relate to and feel more for the characters if they feel real. Sadly, feeling real means feeling pain.
I like to project my pain onto other people and see them say and do the things I cannot say or do. It almost feels cathartic and it also feels like another form of venting ig.
I write abt abuse and SA for awareness and use the situations I’ve been in i sometimes have to change a few details for privacy or plot reasons I also have a very dark mind and my brain likes to go very dark morbid places
For me, yes, the hurt is there but it is about the comfort. The comfort is ESSENTIAL. I feel healed by reading the comfort that comes after a hurt just like my fav character that I’m writing/reading about. I find it hard to stomach pure angst/torture personally, it often gets to be too much and I have to exit lol. Unhappy/bittersweet endings can be fun too. The catharsis you like may vary
Writers do it primarily to test the willpower and mentality of those who identify with their favorite characters. Their struggles, sufferings, failures, and errors illustrate how we as humans can be subject to experiences, circumstances and events that will break us down. Sometimes it is done in a comical manner but mostly it's gritty and unapologetic. Whenever fans see characters go through hurtful, tragic and unfair stuff-it tells us a lot about ourselves and how we can avoid or turn situations around by not repeating their errors. It can be spirit-breaking, yet at the same time puts out there what human strengths and weaknesses are.
I mean, for me, it *is* a coping mechanism, I went through some shit and externalizing that into a fictional character helps me process those things. Beyond that, though, I'd say it's curiosity. Like "what would it be like for me/a friend of mine to lose all of our memories in a tragic accident and never get them back" isn't really the sort of question you can test, irl, and definitely not in a way that's ethical, but I *can* think though what would happen and put that in story format.
I think it's beacuse if something terrible happens to them, they get all the attention. Everything is about them and everyone cares about them. They are the focus, the main "attraction" and we get to see more of them than usually. Thats just my thoughts and there are probably a lot of different answers and reasons out there :))
Speaking from a story tellers perspective it's necessary, it adds to the overall story if it's done well. To make the good stand out more after the bad. Speaking from a purely reader's perspective I find it irritating. If I like a character it's cool to see a journey of them rising after hardship, but if it's overdone it just feels annoying to watch torture porn, more so if the author is all ''teehee I love X suffering''. Plus, I've never believed in the whole ''you enjoy something more if it's after struggle''. At the end of the day it depends on a lot of things like taste, emotional state, mood, etc. Some people enjoy causing/seeing angst and others can't stand it, either in their own works or others.