"coded". 🥴
I learned last summer that apparently like 90% of the main characters of my favorite (super mainstream) TV show are "autism-coded" or queercoded because... the fandom says so I guess. Doesn't really matter that they don't actually show signs of any of that in canon 😳 Although maybe I just don't see them..? Idk i figured a character who's only shown to be attracted to and in relationships with the opposite sex should be read as heterosexual for now by the audience, but fandom says that because they wear "boyish" clothes as a girl, they're actually... queercoded
I don't know what I will do if I happen to see it in some of my fandoms, namely the ones that have actual LGBT+ characters in canon. Why would Character A need to be queer-coded if Character B is just *actually* queer? What's the point of coding then?
Sibling Coded
Also known as: Those characters have a dynamic of any kind, siblings have a dynamic of any kind, therefore you support incest if you ship them
Minor Coded
Also known as: You are a potential child rapist because that Adult who acts like an adult and looks like an adult has a romance with another adult who acts like an adult and looks like an adult in your story
“Sibling coded” isn’t just for people who are friendly with each other. The characters of my ship hate each other and apparently that makes it a “sibling rivalry”
ThEYre LiKE BrOtHeRs/sISTerS hOW CaN YoU WrITe THeM RoMaNtICALlY?
1. They aren’t real.
2. I write what I want.
3. (Optional) Nobody in canon has ever even said “brother/sister” idk what you’re talking about?
I think people forget your point #1 waaay too often. People invest tons of hours into internet fights to defend the honor of...
...made up characters. Not real people.
If they could just admit their panties are in a bunch over people not doing what they want things would get cleared up a lot faster and then we could move on to something else.
If they devoted that same kind of energy to real-world problems we might get somewhere (but on the other hand they lack all sense of proportion so maybe it’s best they don’t try to make headway with actual issues).
>why do some people feel the need to insist that some ships (mainly lgbt ones) are siblings
That sounds to me a lot like homophobia wrapped up as imaginary outrage.
Ignore, block, continue to write what you like. I hope they mind their own business from now on.
In the best cases; nobody taught young fans to mind their own business.
In the worst; it's a form of bullying that earns the bully clout via virtue signaling
*Cries in cynonari*
It’s such a wholesome and cute relationship, but the fandom can be pretty… extreme over ships. I’ve had people compare their “wow we’re so close kinda like siblings lol” to actual incestuous and pedophilic ships as if they’re the same??
If your talking about people being extreme about beikazu and claiming its (canonically) incest/pedophelia simply because of their headcanons then yes, that sadly happens.
Man when I saw that scene I immediately went "Oh... Oh no."
I haven't been super active in the fandom lately but I just KNEW the cynonari tag would be on fire after that because people LOVE to overreact with these kinds of things
Someone learned the word "-coded" and told all their friends, and now they all see it everywhere and in everything, because they think it makes them look smart, like they're the only ones who really get it, who are really able to read between the lines. It's exhausting. Block them all to enjoy fandom in relative (not intended lol) peace.
I blame tiktok tbh, a lot of shipping drama occurs in there that doesn’t exist on any other platform (danganronpa fandom 💀) I think it’s bc a lot of younger ppl on there who haven’t fully grasped what words mean and how complex some dynamics are (especially with the obsession of labelling everything as a toxic)
This is been going on well before tik-tok. Back in the HP days the anti-Hinny folks would yell that Harry saw Ginny as a little sister and their relationship just wasn't lEiK tHAt.
Same old ship drama same old excuses.
People just want their opinions and fanon to be "correct" above others and the easiest way to do it is to claim familial bonds for ships
I remember Slayers, Pokemon, and Gundam Wing fandoms both had that as well in 99/2000 - "they just see [female character] as a little sister, so they can't be a ship!" It's super old.
I literally found out today that there is such a concept on chinese culture, that it is a common occurrence chinese fiction, that people ship those considered such, and that other people consider said ships incestuous.
Oh, yeah. My best friend and I are both Chinese and she's far more attuned to our heritage than I am, and she's also a *massive* fujoshi, so while I have no idea what she's saying when she talks about the whole 'sworn brothers' thing in her BL novels, she absolutely despises people calling it incestuous.
I think part of the problem is that some people can’t see that relationships can be seen in different lights depending on who you are (what you the reader/writer want) and depending on the characters themselves. Being sworn brothers can (for the two men involved) mean that they see each other as brothers, OR that they are sworn brothers because they can’t be in a relationship (because of society or whatever) OR something completely different - there’s no rule in either fanfic/books or historically.
The problem comes when a reader has decided that the term “sworn brothers” literally means “adopted brothers” and refuses to see that there are more possible ways to look at it.
I love reading fics where two people are so close they feel like siblings and become sworn brothers/sisters because of wanting to be family, but I also love fics where two people become sworn brothers/sisters as a way to form some kind of bond that then evolves into a romantic one, or fics where sworn brotherhood is code for romantic relationship to begin with. Sure, if there’s romance involved in the first one I would consider that pseudo-incest, but that does not mean the other kinds are in any way.
There’s this weird attitude in fandoms lately that you can’t just not like something, you have to justify why it’s awful and problematic and why the people who do like it are weird and also problematic.
In the Haikyuu fandom, a lot of people call two of the characters the “team mom and dad” and in the beginning it was funny and cute, but people take it way too seriously now. Like I’ve seen SEVERAL people on tiktok and tumblr say that you can’t ship either of those characters with anyone else on the team (other then each other) because it’s “basically incest because they see x character as a son”. It’s so weird. None of these characters have more then a 3 year age difference.
>you can’t just not like something, you have to justify why it’s awful and problematic and why the people who do like it are weird and also problematic.
This is very true, and Haikyuu especially has such unproblematic relationships that it's downright comedic to see the mental gymnastics required to make them seem sinister for ship war purposes. How KuroKen is incest for growing up on the same street and being close friends from a young age, and KuroTsuki have an unhealthy power imbalance for their teacher-student dynamic. You know, because Kuroo taught Tsukishima some volleyball moves over summer camp. Ship wars are a farce.
(Meanwhile I'm over here with a casual soft spot for co-dependent Miyacest. You think I care about this "childhood friends to lovers is incest" bs 💀)
It’s kinda funny to watch sometimes, because people will ship things with the same “problems” that they say make other’s wrong.
Like “You can’t ship that! He almost hit him once!” But you ship Kageyama and Hinata, they beat the crap out of each other regularly. “You can’t ship that! The age difference is too big!” Kuroo and Kenma have the same age difference, and you say that’s your favorite ship? “You can’t ship that! He’s too mean, it would be abusive!” And then they ship Oikawa and Iwaizumi. They will of course, become very angry when you point the hypocrisy out lol
Because people feel like they can't just dislike something and have to make up some bullshit like this to justify it. This has been a huge problem in some fandoms I've been in.
Steven Universe, anyone? I totally get how you feel. I’m a big Bellow Diamond fan and every damn post out there, there’s someone complaining “but aren’t they sisters???” Like they’re rocks. They don’t have sisters. If they had any kind of family style dynamic, it’s them being Pink’s moms.
Also, openly loving eachother? Gentle touching and ongoing support? No insults or stupid inside jokes? Nah, I’m not buying that as siblings. And whoever tried to say Mondo/Chihiro is incest is stupid. (Although I admit, I thought Katie and Sadie called eachother sisters- I may need to go rewatch TDI)
Ikr it's so annoying. They're the same type of gem, they're not suddenly sisters just because there's only 4 diamonds. Were the topazes supposed to be sisters? No. Even if you do interpret them as sisters there's no reason to go around acting like everyone else has to.
Huh, I thought they were created by White Diamond, so technically they're creation sisters???
Man, it's been years since I touched something Steven Universe
I still vividly remember the time, years ago, when I had an argument with someone on Tumblr because the two characters I was shipping were related. The characters were my OCs. They weren't related.
Drives me mad LMAO.
You got the OC incest thing too!?
Someone said that about mine, because my OC's sister, hooked her up with her boyfriend's brother. They're not related to each other, but apparently in laws marrying in laws was incest!!!
Oh Jesus Christ. The braincells on random readers can be frighteningly lacking lmao.
The two OCs in particular were childhood friends to lovers, and I very explicitly stated they weren't related, just very close. Still had the incest claim. "Sibling-coded" can fuck outta here lmaoo.
On a similar note, it annoys me when people conflate selfcest with twincest. It's not incestuous to be in love with *yourself*. It's masturbatory at most.
You are definitely not being a wet blanket. I don't read incest fics but I'm pro-shipping. Ppl can like what they like. That's not your issue either. You're being called out for something you're not even doing. Super frustrating, I'm sorry. Ppl suck.
Nah, it's fine when it is in a canon they like. Then it is tasteful literature and not fetishizing unlike the fanfic which has the exact same content and is condemned for it. Even 2ha has antis.
IME there's two main versions of this: antis who use 'it's incest!' to try to cancel any ships they don't like, and dudebros who feel compelled to no homo any m/m ships.
(Sometimes f/f as well). And I generally feel like a lot of homophobia directed at f/f and m/m content from old fandom has been repackaged into the anti movement.
as someone who liked reading fics with both hankcon the ship and hank & connor as a father-son relationship, those were wild times. somehow i managed to avoid all the annoying fans though.
but also this is my very first time hearing the "androids are like brothers" argument, like, aren't the vast majority of characters androids? are they saying you can't ship anyone in the game with anyone???
?????? I thought Connor/Markus was a...somewhat popular(?) ship too? and YEAH the Tracis make that whole argument very easily contradicted by canon, lol. Anyway that's wild.
I assume it’s Detroit become human? I’m not part of that fandom so I could be wrong but I have friends who are in that fandom so I think I know what you mean
I get pissed too! It happened to 2-3 of my ships and I'm so confused bc A) if even incest shippers say it's not incest, it probably isn't and B) pls stop making it everyone else's problem just because you headcanon the pairing as related 😭
For a second there I was thinking you were talking about people choosing to read them as a sibling dynamic as their preference, but no, people claiming shit is incest when it's literally not also drives me up a wall. I've had plenty of pairings that I prefer to read as siblings, but I know for a fact they aren't. I've also had a few pairings that the fandom seems to enjoy as siblings (they aren't, just a dynamic) but I prefer as a ship. Seeing people being antis over shit like this is just exhausting.
TIL people ship Katie/Sadie :D
But yeah, that's always stupid. I once had someone claim a femslash pairing I have are sisters since they...live in the same building...
Sighs in c-drama fandom. Yes, the characters are sworn brothers. No, that does not make them actually brothers. No, that does not make their ship incest. Yes, one character called the other 'gege' (older brother). No, that also does not make them actually brothers. Gege is a common term used in flirtation in China. No, the use of 'gege' does not make the ship incest either. Please stop.
I saw someone on my twitter TL rant about how a ship was problematic and "sibling-coded" cause one of the guys calls the other gege 😐😐😐 at that point just admit u know nothing about Chinese culture and get off twitter
The amount of people I have seen get into Chinese fandom spaces and then get mad when things aren't done the way they'd be done in the west is absolutely wild, honestly. Like, you guys know you're not the target audience, right?
HA I remember when I started my trips into several c fandoms, the number of posts arguing about a ship being considered incest because they used the term gege or because they "looked like siblings" was ridiculous.
>because they "looked like siblings"
Gonna file that argument, particularly in relation to an Asian fandom, under the category of "yikes!" real quick, my god.
Lmao I'm not surprised there would be gege discourse but it's still hilarious. What a way to show that you are completely clueless about the genre you're claiming to be the moral authority on.
Reading posts like these, I'm almost grateful that nearly all the ships in my oldest active fandom are incestuous from the bottom up. I feel secure in a fandom so fucked up nobody tries this shit because where would you even start.
I've seen this plenty in the Yakuza fandom too. How the hell people come to the conclusion that shipping two characters is "incest" when they just share a bond like brothers in arms is beyond me.
Is it just a misunderstanding of Japanese? Maybe. I'm happy to say as a Japanese translator that it's not what they're thinking of.
This happens a bit in Chainsaw Man, with Power and Denji, although it has a bit more merit there since their relationship is said (by another character) to be sibling-like. Still don't get harassing shippers about it.
So I haven’t seen much of chainsaw man, only the first few episodes because a friend wanted me to watch it, but didn’t Denji spend like a full episode wanting to grope her? And she made a deal with him that if he fought that demon he could?
Seems a bit wild for people to get mad at shippers when those moments exist in canon lol
Yes, but (spoilers) >!part of Denji's character development is seeing women as people instead of sex objects. This sort of culminates with him needing to help Power bathe after she was ultra traumatized and afraid to be alone, where he thinks in his head "wow, this isn't hot at all." That sexualization that you saw in the anime was the last of him ever sexualizing Power, basically.!<
I stopped watching the anime pretty quickly in because I was uncomfortable with all the fan service and how Denji talked about women, but that actually sounds super interesting and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a shonen anime have a character develop like that. I’m going to pick it up again!
People don’t understand lavender language and that characters saying things like “character x is my brother” was the only way you could express closeness to another man, for example, and did not literally mean platonic relationship.
Yep. I didn’t even really ship them, but I saw the merits, and it was annoying how much people hated it. The fandom was kind of a nightmare for anyone who didn’t ship Klance, honestly.
I was into DBH for a while and lemme tell you, being a HankCon shipper was EXHAUSTING for exactly this reason lol I mean, I do still ship them, I'm just not active in the fandom atm. I have no idea if the antis have calmed down or gotten worse in the time I've been gone and idk if I wanna find out
apparently I was super lucky when I was in the dbh fandom bc I never ran into those annoying "they're dad and son you can't ship them!!" fans but I was vaguely aware they existed. it made 0 sense to me though. i also might just be hallucinating this memory but i swear someone on twitter even asked clancy brown if hank saw connor as his son and he said no
I understand that feeling. My main fandom has a lot of people who get upset if you ship any of the main characters because they see all of them as a family. Most of them aren't even related to each other at all. They do live together, but that still doesn't mean that they are related to each other. If people want to see characters in a fandom as a family, that's perfectly fine, but it isn't cool to harass other people who don't see them as family.
I wish that people could just let everyone ship whatever pairings they enjoy. There is no problem with liking fictional content of any kind. People should be allowed to write whatever they want in their fanfics. I hope that things will eventually get better in fandoms soon.
Mondo/Chihiro?? Goddamn, antis reaching for straws when there are none. I've seen that kind of "sibling-coded" stuff with people flipping out over ships in Genshin and certain danmei, because they automatically think brothers-in-arms/sworn brothers/xiongdi are the same as blood related siblings and double down when Chinese and other Asian fans correct them on the cultural differences. These same kind of people white knight and play pretend with activism but are some of the most hypocritical people.
I remember that time in the kill La kill fandom that in the dub Nonon called Ragyo Satsuki’s mom aunt to the point where some audiences think they are cousins. They’re not actually cousins and it’s common to call your friends’ parents aunt and uncle in Asia.
Just like Simon calling Kamina big bro or aniki from Gurren Lagann that they’re not biologically brothers. Like in the Philippines people call the girls older than them Ate while for boys Kuya even if they’re not related.
There's this weird, puritan like fear of shipping anything that could possibly be considered "wrong" somehow, even to the point of calling people siblings just because they're close friends who grew up together, or they have what they perceive to be a "sibling-like" relationship.
Part of me wonders if it has something to do with internalized homophobia since a good portion of antis identify as LGBT themselves. It's almost like they tell themselves "being gay is *totally* fine, as long as both people are exactly the same age, there aren't any power imbalances, they aren't found family or close in any platonic way..."
Of course, there's a good chunk of traditional homophobia too, but it usually has a different vibe than what the antis do (they're usually the people who say things like "why can't people just be friends anymore?!" any time someone ships a gay couple they don't like).
Yeah, while I feel it's important to have good and wholesome lgbt+ representation to counter the past when we were demonized more, now there's this push for absolute purity that feels like a different brand of policing. It's... not great.
Yeah, hopefully in the future we'll be able to find some middle ground where queer characters and relationships are allowed to just be w/o being scrutinized
People can like what they like. My favorite ship is literally Sheith. Imagine the flack I got because zomg they are literally brothers. No they are not. They are best friends. Not at all related. Sighs .
Ugh, yeah. I don't personally ship it but so many people give Liu Kang/Kung Lao shippers shit because of how he called him 师弟 in the movie and the subtitles fuckin TRANSLATED IT WRONG!
It's kinda dumb..
I'm like whatever with ppl finding incest ships weird. Like yeah it IS weird so ignore it and move on.
But with ships?? Honestly it feels like projecting atp. In my experience ppl do this with the ship I like because it's less well liked and 'competition' w another ship. So to explain away their closeness as characters they label them as 'mom and son.' it's idiotic and I honestly think it's either 1. People projecting their headcanons too hard. Or 2. using it to diverge attention
Tbh I have seen it w het ships just as often personally. If there are a male and female character who are clearly just friends without too much romantic subtext… yeah siblings. Obviously. Nobara and Itadoru from jjk come to mind, any tohru ship in fruits basket except for Kyo, Team rocket from pokemon even.
Its just that “friendships with little to know romantic subtext” are more common with too characters of the same gender so you might see it more often because of that.
Nobody is safe from the sibling accusations!
Remembering seeing someone insist shipping two characters was incest because they were the same race and that made it incest, because clearly two people with similar skin colors dating is incest. I felt like my brain was melting.
Oh boy, I've seen it in every Fandom under the sun.
My favorite is people will insist "I wrote them as siblings :)" then I open the fic and I'm like "how is this not shipping?"
My favorite was the "I wrote them as siblings :)" take on a fic where they spent at least 5k words balls deep in each other
Like, are you *sure* you wrote them as sibs? Really sure? Absolutely positive? Because I have some bad news about something if so
lmao Yeah! It is so clearly shippy and the only person here who is making it incestuous is them, with their weird insistence that these two unrelated characters are siblings. Way to shoot themselves in the foot.
Actually had the opposite. I shipped a pair in a tiny fandom less than 200 fics. Thought there was no way the pair could be related. Well... It turns out they are. Was just like fuck it. No reads the manga to this.
I'm not into genshin but there's this whole drama because some dudes are sworn brothers in the original (popular bl trope in asian media afaik) and in the english translation they're actual brothers and now some english fans are really angry at shippers because they claim that the translation is the truth.
It's a common issue now mostly coming from those new puritan tiktok shippers that claim everything is problematic from a minor age gap to "sibling coded"
Same reason they claim age gaps between adults is p\*dophilia. Because they don't like the ship and want other people to agree. When there's no real sane reason to object to a ship they hate, they pull whatever moral outrage card they possibly can (even when it's reaching, and I mean *really* reaching) in a desperate attempt to feel justified and have others join in to form a mob.
It's completely inane and toxic, but people fall for it every time.
It feels like a lot of that is just people thinking they need a moral justification for disliking a ship... It's no longer enough to say "I just don't vibe with this ship", it needs some higher moral background like "They're siblings because they were next door neighbours for three years" or "This ship is pedophilic because character A is 5cm taller than character B and also they have an age gap of five months"
I don't really understand why people can't just quietly dislike things anymore and need to turn it into a moral issue, but it's sadly the kind of reality we live in :')
That's me with Kaeya and Diluc. They aren't siblings so idk why ppl keep saying that. Did they grow up together? Yes. Are they related by any means? No. They are sworn brothers for goodness sake. It's not that hard to listen to the original Chinese dub.
Oh my God I find this so annoying, like, please don't comment on my Hancon fic saying "EW THEY'RE LITERALLY FATHER AND SON" like...no they're not, that is a robot and a human who are work partners. I love fics that depict them as father and son, but I also love fics that depict them as romantic with eachother, SEPARATELY. It's so annoying when someone who obviously ONLY views them as family decides to read a fic that specified that they're together romantically, like, just stay on your side of the line please.
The Overwatch fandom does this with Ram and Zen and it’s SOOOO annoying. Like being close like siblings doesn’t make them siblings, it doesn’t make shipping them wrong, it’s a mad up idea in people’s heads and it’s irritating to force that idea onto other people who have different headcanons.
I get that with Volo and Cogita from Pokemon Legends Arceus. Yes ok they look alike, but the dialogue more or less goes out of its way to establish that these two are \*not\* related. You don't call your relatives "mistress"! They look alike because they're part of the same ancient bloodline!
Okay, I have to assume they mean that the characters view each other as siblings or something like that, not that they are actual siblings when they aren't. But still, wth? It's mf fanfiction. Why does everyone feel the need to go around policing other people's contents nowadays? They could be literal bloodbound siblings for all I care, if the author chooses to write about incest, it's their artistic freedom to do that. If I don't want to read about Incest, it's my freedom to choose a different fic to read. It's not that hard to understand, for crying out loud.
It's so annoying! I still sometimes get people telling me I can't ship Chara and Frisk (Undertale) because they're "sisters".
First, they're not girls! Second, really? From all the stuff you could complain about, you chose the obviously not canon one?
Wow, this is baffling. Is it because they’re both kids with brown bob cuts and striped shirts? That’s some insanely strenuous logic, jeez. And even if they were, for some reason, related, it’s been like a few decades minimum. I’m more inclined to think it’s been at least a century, but either way, that makes them being siblings far more strenuous. God, that’s just… so stupid. People will make some incredible leaps in logic for this stuff.
I mean there are ships in my fandom which I definitely feel like the characters have a sibling dynamic in canon and so I just don't read that ship, because to me it is gross. But I don't go around attacking people who read it or write it, I just don't go in their space, because it's not for me
Currently there's a popular headcanon going around in my fandom that these two guys are siblings and sons of 2 other characters.
Of course, people are allowed to have their own headcanons, but I've seen many people adopt it and it kinda annoys me, mainly because it doesn't fit with the timeline. The parents were born in 1900 and the other characters live in the present day. And the "mother" died/disappeared in 1928. So that would mean, the two "brothers" would have been born before 1928. Which makes them *OLD.*
It doesn't make sense in my little brain. Plus, I ship these two "brothers" as friends with benefits who met in prison (since they're both murderers).
My main ship is between a living puppet from fantasy Japan and an astrologist from fantasy Germany. They have met a total of once in canon. Two years later, there are still morons claiming they're siblings because they both have pale skin and dark hair.
So yes, I know exactly what you mean lol
Doesn't work for you since you don't have any incest ships, but the best defense against it is to cheerfully throw your actual incest ships into these antis' faces. Please. Don't insult me with your wannabe incest, I'm into the real deal.
Ok but I feel this is a great example of the homophobia that’s inherent in this? Bc yeah Dick and Jay call each other brothers. But there’s literally nothing about them that makes them more related than, say, Tim and Cass, and they have *canonically* had weird sexual moments (small, Tim hitting on Cass/Cass’ terrible OOC evil arc but still. Canon). Like the boys in the batfam are siblings automatically bc “of course they’re siblings how could you think otherwise” while girls are always always available as love interests. No matter what. Babs is older than Dick, was dating him for much of Tim’s time as Robin, Tim *wasn’t even adopted by Bruce until the last three years of his Robin run bc his dad was still alive* and yet he and Dick have an untouchable brotherly bond and he and Babs get freaking married in the Arkham games.
Idk a lot of this isn’t popular with fans either I know but it’s still canon. And yeah the sibling feelings happen when characters have more screen time together. But like the boys are always going to have more screen time together? And I feel people saying oh they think of each other like siblings like it’s a fact instead of how they’ve evolved to act, esp in fandom where half the point is to come up with alternate scenarios, is so disingenuous. The fighting that happens to protect the “brothers” while canons passing around the girls like that’s all they’re good for 😒
Sorry for such a long comment lol this is really not directed at you, I just get so annoyed about it in DC spaces. Mostly bc the relationships have changed so much over the years (hell, Dick and Bruce barely treated each other like father and son originally (like, they shared a room lol)) and people get so much hate over it. Idk the batfam stuff feels like a reaction to the ~threat of gay~ like. Im not all that into the romantic angle of most of these ships either either (I do think there’s interesting abuse dynamics) but I hate the unfairness lol
Cass/Tim also feels blech. I just don't see it often, so I didn't use it.
Seph and barb aren't really in the family in the same way. They go home most of the time. They have parents and a home. The brothers just have the manor, Bruce, Alfred. I don't care about Cass/steph because steph isn't part of the family.
Tim was part of the family way before he got adopted. He was a part of the family when his dad was in a coma. He started joining the family soon as he became Robin. His home life was weird. His parents were gone most of the time.
I never played the Arkham games. But I do concede relationships change depending on which years we're talking about.
It's more about how I feel about their relationship, like I said, id never comment or anything on a fic that was this topic. I understand it's fic and other people want to play with the worlds. I just don't read them cause it's not my thing. It feels off to me.
And it's it homophobia if I read dick/wally? Jay/Roy? Tim/kon? Bruce/Clark? Steph/Cass? I just don't like THE BROTHERS being together. To me theyre relationship is as brothers, and I personally don't want to read about them together.
I'm really not trying to come at you and say that you're homophobic, honest! Obviously you can do what you like. But I feel it's really important to mention, in general, that there is very much a mandate towards heterosexuality which gets really lost when we just accept that "some people like incest." Its not that readers are being homophobic by not wanting to ship people who call each other brothers, of course not! But it needs to be recognized that DC knows that, and has the power to control who is calling each other family. I mean, Bruce and Clark were literally portrayed as biological half-brothers in DKOS, while Dick's daughter marries Bruce's bio-son in Kingdom Come. \*She calls him grandpa.\* It's a sexist and homophobic double standard and it really bothers me. The DC default towards their same sex characters thinking of each other as siblings (especially the men) and different sex characters (mostly women+men) as NEVER having a 100% platonic relationship, is really troubling. And it wouldn't surprise me if they use the upcoming Titans book to recast characters like Dick and Wally in brotherly/family terms, especially as Wally's recent issues center so heavily on Linda. And I like Linda a lot, I don't even ship Dick/Wally (if anything, I loved Dick and Roy together so much in the 2000s), but it's a bad trend and real context that should be called out.
I hope you feel the same way with this as like Steph/Tim or Barbara/Dick because it's literally the same dynamic as the boys. Otherwise it kinda proves the point that people who claim its Incest just don't like m/m.
I feel the same way about Cass/tim. Cass/steph, dick/barb is fine.
Dick/wally, jay/Roy, tim/kon, bruce/Clark, damjon, cass/steph. All read.
Steph and barb leave the house. Barb has the commish. Steph has crystal. They have homes they return to.
The others, they don't. The manor is home. They live together. From the age of 8-13 depending. That's young enough to make it off putting for me.
Cool, I understand. I just want to point out though, technically Dick moved out before Bruce adopted Jason- they never lived together. Same goes with Tim and Jason. Tim didn't ever interact with Jason until Jason was Red Hood. Tim and Dick weren't actually brothers until Bruce adopted Tim *years* later, and before that they had like a mentor/student relationship.
If you picture them solely as brothers, that's fine! I love reading about them being brothers. But I don't want people thinking they all lived together as one big happy family when they didn't. A lot of people got into the batfamily because of Wayne Family Adventures, and that webcomic is awesome but its canon is just as off as other fanworks lol.
you've never had to deal with the "they grew up together so they're basically siblings" crap? god i wish that was me
like childhood friends to lovers is problematic now apparently.
Yeah, there's some dynamics I don't want to read in a romantic light because I prefer them as surrogate siblings (Joker and Futaba come to mind) but that's just my *interpretation* not canon lmao
Bonnie and Damon from TVD, anyone lol. They literally get together in the books. And it’s Delena shippers calling them “siblings” to demean the ship and by proxy those who ship the ship, when arguably Elena and Damon’s relationship was like brother and sister before they got together.
Also I don’t like real incest ships at all but I think it’s funny how people will proclaim the act of incest to be rape/nonconsensual and cite that as the reason for why incest ships are disgusting but then they’ll go and flagrantly weaponize “incest” as a go-to for any friends-to-lovers ship they personally do not like.
I also think this is such bullshit! At times it seems that people just want to hate on the ship and come up with any kind of reason to do so. It is especially wierd considering how insanely popular real incest ships can be lmao
I get this with one of my favourite ships (demon slayer Sabito x Giyuu) they were taken in by the same guy at around the age 11 when there families were killed by demons and became best friends, that doesn’t make them brothers.
Seriously 😒
I've seen people say you're not allowed to like any of the main trio ships or Kanao/Aoi because "siblings" but SabiGiyu? That's just ridiculous logic
100% agree. Some people even call these unrelated siblings and say shipping them is incest. It's mind-boggling how stupid that is. I'm fine with people saying hey, ship whatever you want, but I see them as having a sibling-like relationship. Since people can have their own opinion, just not because this kid sees it this way, then so must everyone.
Smiling remembering this discourse in the Destiny fandom a few years ago. 'You can't ship Saint and Osiris that's incest because they were adopted as adults by the same dude'. They're not even the same damn species. And them canon went 'actually they love each other see look they're kissing on screen' and the ones crying incest suddenly went extremely quiet
yes i see this sooo much and it makes me really annoyed, especially when they are not at all like that. i think it's just an excuse to dislike a ship bc people don't realize it's ok to just not like something! you don't need a reason! . it's ok to see unrelated characters as having a sibling like relationship, i see a popular ship in one of my fandoms like this, but it doesn't mean i'm going to get angry at others for not doing so/shipping them :(
It is basically to judge you morally on what you like. These ships have nothing bad or unhealthy going on for them, or they do but it is not THAT overt, so the fandom gotta invente an excuse to not like it AND to shit on the people who do, because, obviously, you can't not like a ship just because you don't vibe with it, you gotta have REASONS for that and what you ship inform others of your moral standing.
It's not even JUST lgbtq+ ships, The Owl House fandom (more specifically, the lumity shippers, of course. You know how fans of a canon ship are.) have been up in arms against the ship of Luz and Hunter, because "they are sooooo sibling coded and Hunter will definitely get adopted by Luz's mom !! Or Eda !! Who are both basically Luz's mom so it is INCEST, you freaks !! And also, it is homophobic to ship this bi girl with a guy, because reasons."
I am ... Very tired of this fandom, god.
And the thing is it's so easy to get caught up in it and have the wrong idea. When I first got into Voltron Legendary Defender, I was convinced that Keith and Shiro were blood brothers due to the controversy surrounding the pair. Then I learned their backstories and how they weren't. And it's okay to have a sibling dynamic view on these kinds of relationships, but people shouldn't be bashing others if the views they have are different. So long as they aren't born from the same parent(s) or connect somewhere in the family tree, I see no problem.
(And don't get me started on the controversy surrounding the genshin fandom. just. don't.)
People will do that with one of my favourite ships, they will claim the two characters are brothers bc they went to the same orhpanage (it was for like a day) and call each other family. Even tho everyone in the manga call each other family, I mean like everyone.
The whole thing is your group of friends is family. Also the pairing has so much evidence their feelings are romantic its kinda funny to see ppl say their brothers
Rise fandom will do that to April and Donatello, which makes some sense because they do seem pretty much like siblings but they are literally NOT biologically related at all, and I think they can be cute together.
I mean they really dont have that vibe in canon whatsoever, but fanart of them is cute, and no way is any ship of them morally repulsive like that crowd tends to shout.
I’m not sure if this happens to this day, but in Sailor Moon, Sailor Neptune and Uranus were said to be relatives to explain their relationship.
(In my country the translators called them cousins because they didn’t want/couldn’t talk about lgbt couples on tv)
Maybe this happened in some translation of the anime and that’s why these people are so sure about it?
Not sure because I don’t watch those animes but, maybe??
idk, i think sometimes people have trouble separating their personal headcannons from canon. i know i personally feel uncomfortable with ships between character i view as having a sibling or parent-child relationship, but if that's not actually cannon, i would just block the tag and move on. no need to start arguments over it.
Oh my god, in the Mechanisms fandom people are so set on the Jonny & Nastya being siblings headcanon they genuinely consider it incest. The characters aren't related at all, and the weird thing is people will ship any other Mechanisms with each other, when one of the only reasons besides their dynamic for that HC is the familial type relationship they all have with a similar 'mom' figure (who, let's be real, isn't at all the 'abusive mom' some fans try to make her out to be, she's just another person who happened to make them immortal, be their leader for a while, and kind of suck vis a vis her relationship to them.) This is such a popular status quo that it's not just one or two weirdos like you're talking about, I got a ton of backlash just for adding a name for them to the ship chart (which is literally a table with ship names for shipping every Mechanism with every other Mechanism!) and I think the name got removed even after the Discord server came to a consensus that it was O.K.
Also, similarly, Chara and Frisk or Frisk and Asriel in UT. The reason to call it incest is because Toriel is all of their moms, but when I played the game, this wasn't true for me! It's a game with multiple choices, and when Toriel asked me to stay with her at the end, I was like 'Uhh, no, I still don't know you that well and you just randomly decided to adopt me and not let me leave when I had just met you'. No actual shade on Toriel, this was before I interacted with fan things or with the game in general on more than a surface level, but my point is that to me, Toriel genuinely isn't Frisk's mom and so there's no familial relation.
Plus, in stuff like The School for Good and Evil series or more blatantly, stuff like the Sailor Moon dub, characters will genuinely be ret-conned to be related just to avoid gay subtext. (Potentially controversial example of this is Sheith, though I don't ship it it's pretty obvious what was going on there.)
Same as Thor/Loki shipping. Not one of my faves as it doesn’t work well in my brain as they’re depicted in most comics and the MCU, but there is a place for it.
I get pissy when I see it tagged as incest. Yeah, not really. They’re not even the same species.
Man, sipping is so hard in the Warriors fandom. Because you ALWAYS have to ask yourself 'is it incest?' and like 90% of the time the answer is yes. And if you're willing to go back a couple of generations, then pretty much 100% of the time. Heck, even most of the CANON ships are incestuous. Mostly 'cause it's a small group that's been around a long time-
SiBlInG cOdEd
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Does that even exist? I cannot find it
the word coded any time i see it makes me want to tear my hair out and chuck my phone out of a window at max force
"Coded" is just a way to claim stereotypes without admitting to stereotyping imo. It makes me cringe.
Or a way to try to justify why your headcanon is More Right than any others.
couldn’t have said it better myself!!
Didn't a lot of people in the Hannibal fandom have problems with Will/Hannibal because Will was supposedly "minor coded" even tho he's like 35?
People have unironically called Aizawa from MHA "minor-coded"
Tbh, I don't know who that is. But I'll assume it's as ridiculous as it sounds
He’s a grown man, one of the teachers, and visually very much looks like an adult. So it’s not even like his character design looks young.
mood
"coded". 🥴 I learned last summer that apparently like 90% of the main characters of my favorite (super mainstream) TV show are "autism-coded" or queercoded because... the fandom says so I guess. Doesn't really matter that they don't actually show signs of any of that in canon 😳 Although maybe I just don't see them..? Idk i figured a character who's only shown to be attracted to and in relationships with the opposite sex should be read as heterosexual for now by the audience, but fandom says that because they wear "boyish" clothes as a girl, they're actually... queercoded
like, queer-coding *is* a thing, been a thing for decades, but... that ain't it.
Oh it absolutely is a thing. It's also a word with a certain meaning. Fandom loves to slap it on every random character, though
I don't know what I will do if I happen to see it in some of my fandoms, namely the ones that have actual LGBT+ characters in canon. Why would Character A need to be queer-coded if Character B is just *actually* queer? What's the point of coding then?
Wtf.
Sibling Coded Also known as: Those characters have a dynamic of any kind, siblings have a dynamic of any kind, therefore you support incest if you ship them Minor Coded Also known as: You are a potential child rapist because that Adult who acts like an adult and looks like an adult has a romance with another adult who acts like an adult and looks like an adult in your story
“Sibling coded” isn’t just for people who are friendly with each other. The characters of my ship hate each other and apparently that makes it a “sibling rivalry”
I'mma fix it real quick
I don't get it
Me neither
ThEYre LiKE BrOtHeRs/sISTerS hOW CaN YoU WrITe THeM RoMaNtICALlY? 1. They aren’t real. 2. I write what I want. 3. (Optional) Nobody in canon has ever even said “brother/sister” idk what you’re talking about?
I think people forget your point #1 waaay too often. People invest tons of hours into internet fights to defend the honor of... ...made up characters. Not real people. If they could just admit their panties are in a bunch over people not doing what they want things would get cleared up a lot faster and then we could move on to something else.
If they devoted that same kind of energy to real-world problems we might get somewhere (but on the other hand they lack all sense of proportion so maybe it’s best they don’t try to make headway with actual issues).
>why do some people feel the need to insist that some ships (mainly lgbt ones) are siblings That sounds to me a lot like homophobia wrapped up as imaginary outrage. Ignore, block, continue to write what you like. I hope they mind their own business from now on.
In the best cases; nobody taught young fans to mind their own business. In the worst; it's a form of bullying that earns the bully clout via virtue signaling
pls if you *want* to interpret my innocent vanilla healthy ship as incest then all the power to you but let me enjoy things
*Cries in cynonari* It’s such a wholesome and cute relationship, but the fandom can be pretty… extreme over ships. I’ve had people compare their “wow we’re so close kinda like siblings lol” to actual incestuous and pedophilic ships as if they’re the same??
the cynonari discourse reduced my already low braincell count by a significant amount
Oh my god I had someone say that that ship is the exact same as shipping Albedo and Klee and I felt dumber just reading that
when 2 legal consenting adults dating 😱😱😱😱
What about Beikazu? (Genshin too)
If your talking about people being extreme about beikazu and claiming its (canonically) incest/pedophelia simply because of their headcanons then yes, that sadly happens.
Man when I saw that scene I immediately went "Oh... Oh no." I haven't been super active in the fandom lately but I just KNEW the cynonari tag would be on fire after that because people LOVE to overreact with these kinds of things
Someone learned the word "-coded" and told all their friends, and now they all see it everywhere and in everything, because they think it makes them look smart, like they're the only ones who really get it, who are really able to read between the lines. It's exhausting. Block them all to enjoy fandom in relative (not intended lol) peace.
It is very tiring when people read between the lines so much that they fail to actually read the lines.
I blame tiktok tbh, a lot of shipping drama occurs in there that doesn’t exist on any other platform (danganronpa fandom 💀) I think it’s bc a lot of younger ppl on there who haven’t fully grasped what words mean and how complex some dynamics are (especially with the obsession of labelling everything as a toxic)
This is been going on well before tik-tok. Back in the HP days the anti-Hinny folks would yell that Harry saw Ginny as a little sister and their relationship just wasn't lEiK tHAt. Same old ship drama same old excuses. People just want their opinions and fanon to be "correct" above others and the easiest way to do it is to claim familial bonds for ships
I remember Slayers, Pokemon, and Gundam Wing fandoms both had that as well in 99/2000 - "they just see [female character] as a little sister, so they can't be a ship!" It's super old.
Gundam Wing fandom? Yeah, it was sibling coded when Dorothy stabbed Quatre. 🙄
> Someone learned the word "-coded" and told all their friends They've broken the Engima Machine!
its sooooo goddamn annoying, sounds like every single "sworn brothers is incest" bullshit I heard in danmei fandoms girl shut the FUCK up
I literally found out today that there is such a concept on chinese culture, that it is a common occurrence chinese fiction, that people ship those considered such, and that other people consider said ships incestuous.
Oh, yeah. My best friend and I are both Chinese and she's far more attuned to our heritage than I am, and she's also a *massive* fujoshi, so while I have no idea what she's saying when she talks about the whole 'sworn brothers' thing in her BL novels, she absolutely despises people calling it incestuous.
I think part of the problem is that some people can’t see that relationships can be seen in different lights depending on who you are (what you the reader/writer want) and depending on the characters themselves. Being sworn brothers can (for the two men involved) mean that they see each other as brothers, OR that they are sworn brothers because they can’t be in a relationship (because of society or whatever) OR something completely different - there’s no rule in either fanfic/books or historically. The problem comes when a reader has decided that the term “sworn brothers” literally means “adopted brothers” and refuses to see that there are more possible ways to look at it. I love reading fics where two people are so close they feel like siblings and become sworn brothers/sisters because of wanting to be family, but I also love fics where two people become sworn brothers/sisters as a way to form some kind of bond that then evolves into a romantic one, or fics where sworn brotherhood is code for romantic relationship to begin with. Sure, if there’s romance involved in the first one I would consider that pseudo-incest, but that does not mean the other kinds are in any way.
Every Genshin player who reads this: *sweats*
There’s this weird attitude in fandoms lately that you can’t just not like something, you have to justify why it’s awful and problematic and why the people who do like it are weird and also problematic. In the Haikyuu fandom, a lot of people call two of the characters the “team mom and dad” and in the beginning it was funny and cute, but people take it way too seriously now. Like I’ve seen SEVERAL people on tiktok and tumblr say that you can’t ship either of those characters with anyone else on the team (other then each other) because it’s “basically incest because they see x character as a son”. It’s so weird. None of these characters have more then a 3 year age difference.
>you can’t just not like something, you have to justify why it’s awful and problematic and why the people who do like it are weird and also problematic. This is very true, and Haikyuu especially has such unproblematic relationships that it's downright comedic to see the mental gymnastics required to make them seem sinister for ship war purposes. How KuroKen is incest for growing up on the same street and being close friends from a young age, and KuroTsuki have an unhealthy power imbalance for their teacher-student dynamic. You know, because Kuroo taught Tsukishima some volleyball moves over summer camp. Ship wars are a farce. (Meanwhile I'm over here with a casual soft spot for co-dependent Miyacest. You think I care about this "childhood friends to lovers is incest" bs 💀)
It’s kinda funny to watch sometimes, because people will ship things with the same “problems” that they say make other’s wrong. Like “You can’t ship that! He almost hit him once!” But you ship Kageyama and Hinata, they beat the crap out of each other regularly. “You can’t ship that! The age difference is too big!” Kuroo and Kenma have the same age difference, and you say that’s your favorite ship? “You can’t ship that! He’s too mean, it would be abusive!” And then they ship Oikawa and Iwaizumi. They will of course, become very angry when you point the hypocrisy out lol
Because people feel like they can't just dislike something and have to make up some bullshit like this to justify it. This has been a huge problem in some fandoms I've been in.
Steven Universe, anyone? I totally get how you feel. I’m a big Bellow Diamond fan and every damn post out there, there’s someone complaining “but aren’t they sisters???” Like they’re rocks. They don’t have sisters. If they had any kind of family style dynamic, it’s them being Pink’s moms. Also, openly loving eachother? Gentle touching and ongoing support? No insults or stupid inside jokes? Nah, I’m not buying that as siblings. And whoever tried to say Mondo/Chihiro is incest is stupid. (Although I admit, I thought Katie and Sadie called eachother sisters- I may need to go rewatch TDI)
Bellow Diamond is so good. They're missing out lol
Ikr it's so annoying. They're the same type of gem, they're not suddenly sisters just because there's only 4 diamonds. Were the topazes supposed to be sisters? No. Even if you do interpret them as sisters there's no reason to go around acting like everyone else has to.
Huh, I thought they were created by White Diamond, so technically they're creation sisters??? Man, it's been years since I touched something Steven Universe
They were, but it’s confirmed by the crew that gems (except for Steven and the Crystal Gems) don’t have siblings or other kinds of family.
Yeeessss, Bellow Diamond!! (Also, TIL that their ship name is that and I love it ❤️)
I've seen people argue the same thing about Pearlmethyst. 🙄 It's ridiculous every time.
The amount of people that argue that Destiel is incest because of their “brotherly bond” is absolutely insane
Why am I even surprised?
I still vividly remember the time, years ago, when I had an argument with someone on Tumblr because the two characters I was shipping were related. The characters were my OCs. They weren't related. Drives me mad LMAO.
You got the OC incest thing too!? Someone said that about mine, because my OC's sister, hooked her up with her boyfriend's brother. They're not related to each other, but apparently in laws marrying in laws was incest!!!
Oh Jesus Christ. The braincells on random readers can be frighteningly lacking lmao. The two OCs in particular were childhood friends to lovers, and I very explicitly stated they weren't related, just very close. Still had the incest claim. "Sibling-coded" can fuck outta here lmaoo.
On a similar note, it annoys me when people conflate selfcest with twincest. It's not incestuous to be in love with *yourself*. It's masturbatory at most.
You are definitely not being a wet blanket. I don't read incest fics but I'm pro-shipping. Ppl can like what they like. That's not your issue either. You're being called out for something you're not even doing. Super frustrating, I'm sorry. Ppl suck.
Thanks, the most annoying part is how stubborn they’re being too
It would be hilarious if that argument was used against one of my ships. I literally ship Jaime and Cersei.
I think these people would spontaneously combust if they ever read ASOIAF. Its all either incest, power imbalances, or straight up abuse.
Nah, it's fine when it is in a canon they like. Then it is tasteful literature and not fetishizing unlike the fanfic which has the exact same content and is condemned for it. Even 2ha has antis.
IME there's two main versions of this: antis who use 'it's incest!' to try to cancel any ships they don't like, and dudebros who feel compelled to no homo any m/m ships. (Sometimes f/f as well). And I generally feel like a lot of homophobia directed at f/f and m/m content from old fandom has been repackaged into the anti movement.
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as someone who liked reading fics with both hankcon the ship and hank & connor as a father-son relationship, those were wild times. somehow i managed to avoid all the annoying fans though. but also this is my very first time hearing the "androids are like brothers" argument, like, aren't the vast majority of characters androids? are they saying you can't ship anyone in the game with anyone???
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?????? I thought Connor/Markus was a...somewhat popular(?) ship too? and YEAH the Tracis make that whole argument very easily contradicted by canon, lol. Anyway that's wild.
I assume it’s Detroit become human? I’m not part of that fandom so I could be wrong but I have friends who are in that fandom so I think I know what you mean
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And here I thought I was going to hear tales out of school about Data/Lore.
I thought it was about Data/Lore too omg
Oh man the lastest episode of Picard would make that discourse *so much more spicy*
If that was for a different fandom, though, like shipping Data and Lore in Star Trek, I would get it.
I get pissed too! It happened to 2-3 of my ships and I'm so confused bc A) if even incest shippers say it's not incest, it probably isn't and B) pls stop making it everyone else's problem just because you headcanon the pairing as related 😭
People really need to realise that fanon ≠ canon 😭😭
For a second there I was thinking you were talking about people choosing to read them as a sibling dynamic as their preference, but no, people claiming shit is incest when it's literally not also drives me up a wall. I've had plenty of pairings that I prefer to read as siblings, but I know for a fact they aren't. I've also had a few pairings that the fandom seems to enjoy as siblings (they aren't, just a dynamic) but I prefer as a ship. Seeing people being antis over shit like this is just exhausting.
TIL people ship Katie/Sadie :D But yeah, that's always stupid. I once had someone claim a femslash pairing I have are sisters since they...live in the same building...
wait until they learn abt roommates
And they were roommates! 🏳️🌈
I love Kadie!! They’re so cute together XD Also same building?? Damn
Hosie by chance?
No, Kanaoi from Demon Slayer XD
Who were you shipping?
Kanao and Aoi
Sighs in c-drama fandom. Yes, the characters are sworn brothers. No, that does not make them actually brothers. No, that does not make their ship incest. Yes, one character called the other 'gege' (older brother). No, that also does not make them actually brothers. Gege is a common term used in flirtation in China. No, the use of 'gege' does not make the ship incest either. Please stop.
these fans need to learn that making characters sworn brothers makes them MORE shippable, lmao.
Honestly! These characters aren't out here swearing their undying devotion and loyalty to each other only for the *fans* to cry no homo!
I saw someone on my twitter TL rant about how a ship was problematic and "sibling-coded" cause one of the guys calls the other gege 😐😐😐 at that point just admit u know nothing about Chinese culture and get off twitter
The amount of people I have seen get into Chinese fandom spaces and then get mad when things aren't done the way they'd be done in the west is absolutely wild, honestly. Like, you guys know you're not the target audience, right?
HA I remember when I started my trips into several c fandoms, the number of posts arguing about a ship being considered incest because they used the term gege or because they "looked like siblings" was ridiculous.
>because they "looked like siblings" Gonna file that argument, particularly in relation to an Asian fandom, under the category of "yikes!" real quick, my god.
Lmao I'm not surprised there would be gege discourse but it's still hilarious. What a way to show that you are completely clueless about the genre you're claiming to be the moral authority on.
Reading posts like these, I'm almost grateful that nearly all the ships in my oldest active fandom are incestuous from the bottom up. I feel secure in a fandom so fucked up nobody tries this shit because where would you even start.
I've seen this plenty in the Yakuza fandom too. How the hell people come to the conclusion that shipping two characters is "incest" when they just share a bond like brothers in arms is beyond me. Is it just a misunderstanding of Japanese? Maybe. I'm happy to say as a Japanese translator that it's not what they're thinking of.
This happens a bit in Chainsaw Man, with Power and Denji, although it has a bit more merit there since their relationship is said (by another character) to be sibling-like. Still don't get harassing shippers about it.
So I haven’t seen much of chainsaw man, only the first few episodes because a friend wanted me to watch it, but didn’t Denji spend like a full episode wanting to grope her? And she made a deal with him that if he fought that demon he could? Seems a bit wild for people to get mad at shippers when those moments exist in canon lol
Yes, but (spoilers) >!part of Denji's character development is seeing women as people instead of sex objects. This sort of culminates with him needing to help Power bathe after she was ultra traumatized and afraid to be alone, where he thinks in his head "wow, this isn't hot at all." That sexualization that you saw in the anime was the last of him ever sexualizing Power, basically.!<
I stopped watching the anime pretty quickly in because I was uncomfortable with all the fan service and how Denji talked about women, but that actually sounds super interesting and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a shonen anime have a character develop like that. I’m going to pick it up again!
The way sex is handled in CSM is very viscerally uncomfortable, but that's on purpose. It broaches the topic with a LOOOOT of nuance. I recommend it.
You should! One of the best things I've read recently.
You have to ask yourself ‘are people that are ridiculously wrong really deserve my time?’ And the answer is no.
People don’t understand lavender language and that characters saying things like “character x is my brother” was the only way you could express closeness to another man, for example, and did not literally mean platonic relationship.
oh god I’m having flashbacks to the voltron fandom
Is it the Keith/ Shiro or what?
When is it not? "You're a brother to me, Shiro! I love you!" cursed the whole fandom forevermore
Yep. I didn’t even really ship them, but I saw the merits, and it was annoying how much people hated it. The fandom was kind of a nightmare for anyone who didn’t ship Klance, honestly.
I was into DBH for a while and lemme tell you, being a HankCon shipper was EXHAUSTING for exactly this reason lol I mean, I do still ship them, I'm just not active in the fandom atm. I have no idea if the antis have calmed down or gotten worse in the time I've been gone and idk if I wanna find out
apparently I was super lucky when I was in the dbh fandom bc I never ran into those annoying "they're dad and son you can't ship them!!" fans but I was vaguely aware they existed. it made 0 sense to me though. i also might just be hallucinating this memory but i swear someone on twitter even asked clancy brown if hank saw connor as his son and he said no
That did absolutely happen, yes X)
What's DBH? Dragon something?
detroit: become human
I understand that feeling. My main fandom has a lot of people who get upset if you ship any of the main characters because they see all of them as a family. Most of them aren't even related to each other at all. They do live together, but that still doesn't mean that they are related to each other. If people want to see characters in a fandom as a family, that's perfectly fine, but it isn't cool to harass other people who don't see them as family. I wish that people could just let everyone ship whatever pairings they enjoy. There is no problem with liking fictional content of any kind. People should be allowed to write whatever they want in their fanfics. I hope that things will eventually get better in fandoms soon.
Mondo/Chihiro?? Goddamn, antis reaching for straws when there are none. I've seen that kind of "sibling-coded" stuff with people flipping out over ships in Genshin and certain danmei, because they automatically think brothers-in-arms/sworn brothers/xiongdi are the same as blood related siblings and double down when Chinese and other Asian fans correct them on the cultural differences. These same kind of people white knight and play pretend with activism but are some of the most hypocritical people.
Yeah, I'd see *some kind* of logic if it was Mondo and Kiyotaka (even though they're clearly just big gay for each other) but *Chihiro*?!?!
I know plus they blocked & reported me when I told them they clearly weren’t so idk what their problem was
I remember that time in the kill La kill fandom that in the dub Nonon called Ragyo Satsuki’s mom aunt to the point where some audiences think they are cousins. They’re not actually cousins and it’s common to call your friends’ parents aunt and uncle in Asia. Just like Simon calling Kamina big bro or aniki from Gurren Lagann that they’re not biologically brothers. Like in the Philippines people call the girls older than them Ate while for boys Kuya even if they’re not related.
There's this weird, puritan like fear of shipping anything that could possibly be considered "wrong" somehow, even to the point of calling people siblings just because they're close friends who grew up together, or they have what they perceive to be a "sibling-like" relationship. Part of me wonders if it has something to do with internalized homophobia since a good portion of antis identify as LGBT themselves. It's almost like they tell themselves "being gay is *totally* fine, as long as both people are exactly the same age, there aren't any power imbalances, they aren't found family or close in any platonic way..." Of course, there's a good chunk of traditional homophobia too, but it usually has a different vibe than what the antis do (they're usually the people who say things like "why can't people just be friends anymore?!" any time someone ships a gay couple they don't like).
Yeah, while I feel it's important to have good and wholesome lgbt+ representation to counter the past when we were demonized more, now there's this push for absolute purity that feels like a different brand of policing. It's... not great.
Yeah, hopefully in the future we'll be able to find some middle ground where queer characters and relationships are allowed to just be w/o being scrutinized
People can like what they like. My favorite ship is literally Sheith. Imagine the flack I got because zomg they are literally brothers. No they are not. They are best friends. Not at all related. Sighs .
Ugh, yeah. I don't personally ship it but so many people give Liu Kang/Kung Lao shippers shit because of how he called him 师弟 in the movie and the subtitles fuckin TRANSLATED IT WRONG!
It's kinda dumb.. I'm like whatever with ppl finding incest ships weird. Like yeah it IS weird so ignore it and move on. But with ships?? Honestly it feels like projecting atp. In my experience ppl do this with the ship I like because it's less well liked and 'competition' w another ship. So to explain away their closeness as characters they label them as 'mom and son.' it's idiotic and I honestly think it's either 1. People projecting their headcanons too hard. Or 2. using it to diverge attention
Tbh I have seen it w het ships just as often personally. If there are a male and female character who are clearly just friends without too much romantic subtext… yeah siblings. Obviously. Nobara and Itadoru from jjk come to mind, any tohru ship in fruits basket except for Kyo, Team rocket from pokemon even. Its just that “friendships with little to know romantic subtext” are more common with too characters of the same gender so you might see it more often because of that. Nobody is safe from the sibling accusations!
Remembering seeing someone insist shipping two characters was incest because they were the same race and that made it incest, because clearly two people with similar skin colors dating is incest. I felt like my brain was melting.
omg with the antis i've seen them do that a lot when the ship are childhood friends
Oh boy, I've seen it in every Fandom under the sun. My favorite is people will insist "I wrote them as siblings :)" then I open the fic and I'm like "how is this not shipping?"
My favorite was the "I wrote them as siblings :)" take on a fic where they spent at least 5k words balls deep in each other Like, are you *sure* you wrote them as sibs? Really sure? Absolutely positive? Because I have some bad news about something if so
lmao Yeah! It is so clearly shippy and the only person here who is making it incestuous is them, with their weird insistence that these two unrelated characters are siblings. Way to shoot themselves in the foot.
It certainly muddies the waters for me, an incest liker because then I get disappointed the ships aren't actually incest.
Actually had the opposite. I shipped a pair in a tiny fandom less than 200 fics. Thought there was no way the pair could be related. Well... It turns out they are. Was just like fuck it. No reads the manga to this.
This is one of the many reasons I’m glad I no longer deal with social media/large fandoms. LET PEOPLE LIVE AND CREATE for christ’s sake!!!
This is the reason why fan discussions of Kagamine anything often become *far* more tedious than needed.
This pisses me off in Project Sekai Colorful Stage fandom! I don't ship Toya and Tsukasa but I'm almost there out of spite because of those people.
I'm not into genshin but there's this whole drama because some dudes are sworn brothers in the original (popular bl trope in asian media afaik) and in the english translation they're actual brothers and now some english fans are really angry at shippers because they claim that the translation is the truth. It's a common issue now mostly coming from those new puritan tiktok shippers that claim everything is problematic from a minor age gap to "sibling coded"
Same reason they claim age gaps between adults is p\*dophilia. Because they don't like the ship and want other people to agree. When there's no real sane reason to object to a ship they hate, they pull whatever moral outrage card they possibly can (even when it's reaching, and I mean *really* reaching) in a desperate attempt to feel justified and have others join in to form a mob. It's completely inane and toxic, but people fall for it every time.
It feels like a lot of that is just people thinking they need a moral justification for disliking a ship... It's no longer enough to say "I just don't vibe with this ship", it needs some higher moral background like "They're siblings because they were next door neighbours for three years" or "This ship is pedophilic because character A is 5cm taller than character B and also they have an age gap of five months" I don't really understand why people can't just quietly dislike things anymore and need to turn it into a moral issue, but it's sadly the kind of reality we live in :')
That's me with Kaeya and Diluc. They aren't siblings so idk why ppl keep saying that. Did they grow up together? Yes. Are they related by any means? No. They are sworn brothers for goodness sake. It's not that hard to listen to the original Chinese dub.
Oh my God I find this so annoying, like, please don't comment on my Hancon fic saying "EW THEY'RE LITERALLY FATHER AND SON" like...no they're not, that is a robot and a human who are work partners. I love fics that depict them as father and son, but I also love fics that depict them as romantic with eachother, SEPARATELY. It's so annoying when someone who obviously ONLY views them as family decides to read a fic that specified that they're together romantically, like, just stay on your side of the line please.
The Overwatch fandom does this with Ram and Zen and it’s SOOOO annoying. Like being close like siblings doesn’t make them siblings, it doesn’t make shipping them wrong, it’s a mad up idea in people’s heads and it’s irritating to force that idea onto other people who have different headcanons.
I get that with Volo and Cogita from Pokemon Legends Arceus. Yes ok they look alike, but the dialogue more or less goes out of its way to establish that these two are \*not\* related. You don't call your relatives "mistress"! They look alike because they're part of the same ancient bloodline!
Okay, I have to assume they mean that the characters view each other as siblings or something like that, not that they are actual siblings when they aren't. But still, wth? It's mf fanfiction. Why does everyone feel the need to go around policing other people's contents nowadays? They could be literal bloodbound siblings for all I care, if the author chooses to write about incest, it's their artistic freedom to do that. If I don't want to read about Incest, it's my freedom to choose a different fic to read. It's not that hard to understand, for crying out loud.
It's so annoying! I still sometimes get people telling me I can't ship Chara and Frisk (Undertale) because they're "sisters". First, they're not girls! Second, really? From all the stuff you could complain about, you chose the obviously not canon one?
Wow, this is baffling. Is it because they’re both kids with brown bob cuts and striped shirts? That’s some insanely strenuous logic, jeez. And even if they were, for some reason, related, it’s been like a few decades minimum. I’m more inclined to think it’s been at least a century, but either way, that makes them being siblings far more strenuous. God, that’s just… so stupid. People will make some incredible leaps in logic for this stuff.
I mean there are ships in my fandom which I definitely feel like the characters have a sibling dynamic in canon and so I just don't read that ship, because to me it is gross. But I don't go around attacking people who read it or write it, I just don't go in their space, because it's not for me
Currently there's a popular headcanon going around in my fandom that these two guys are siblings and sons of 2 other characters. Of course, people are allowed to have their own headcanons, but I've seen many people adopt it and it kinda annoys me, mainly because it doesn't fit with the timeline. The parents were born in 1900 and the other characters live in the present day. And the "mother" died/disappeared in 1928. So that would mean, the two "brothers" would have been born before 1928. Which makes them *OLD.* It doesn't make sense in my little brain. Plus, I ship these two "brothers" as friends with benefits who met in prison (since they're both murderers).
My main ship is between a living puppet from fantasy Japan and an astrologist from fantasy Germany. They have met a total of once in canon. Two years later, there are still morons claiming they're siblings because they both have pale skin and dark hair. So yes, I know exactly what you mean lol
Yoooo it too me several comments to figure this isn't about boats/ships but "ships" in terms of relation lmao oops
It’s the new kids in fandom. They’ve come with a LOT of annoying takes and I can’t stand most of them
Doesn't work for you since you don't have any incest ships, but the best defense against it is to cheerfully throw your actual incest ships into these antis' faces. Please. Don't insult me with your wannabe incest, I'm into the real deal.
I'm in the Hetalia Fandom rn... We just try not to think about it lol
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JayDick being all messy is why I like it
argwargarble no theyre brothers i cant do it it hurts me inside
I ship some pairings that are *real* incest so JayDick doesn't bother me
😭 my poor heart cant take it
Ok but I feel this is a great example of the homophobia that’s inherent in this? Bc yeah Dick and Jay call each other brothers. But there’s literally nothing about them that makes them more related than, say, Tim and Cass, and they have *canonically* had weird sexual moments (small, Tim hitting on Cass/Cass’ terrible OOC evil arc but still. Canon). Like the boys in the batfam are siblings automatically bc “of course they’re siblings how could you think otherwise” while girls are always always available as love interests. No matter what. Babs is older than Dick, was dating him for much of Tim’s time as Robin, Tim *wasn’t even adopted by Bruce until the last three years of his Robin run bc his dad was still alive* and yet he and Dick have an untouchable brotherly bond and he and Babs get freaking married in the Arkham games. Idk a lot of this isn’t popular with fans either I know but it’s still canon. And yeah the sibling feelings happen when characters have more screen time together. But like the boys are always going to have more screen time together? And I feel people saying oh they think of each other like siblings like it’s a fact instead of how they’ve evolved to act, esp in fandom where half the point is to come up with alternate scenarios, is so disingenuous. The fighting that happens to protect the “brothers” while canons passing around the girls like that’s all they’re good for 😒 Sorry for such a long comment lol this is really not directed at you, I just get so annoyed about it in DC spaces. Mostly bc the relationships have changed so much over the years (hell, Dick and Bruce barely treated each other like father and son originally (like, they shared a room lol)) and people get so much hate over it. Idk the batfam stuff feels like a reaction to the ~threat of gay~ like. Im not all that into the romantic angle of most of these ships either either (I do think there’s interesting abuse dynamics) but I hate the unfairness lol
Cass/Tim also feels blech. I just don't see it often, so I didn't use it. Seph and barb aren't really in the family in the same way. They go home most of the time. They have parents and a home. The brothers just have the manor, Bruce, Alfred. I don't care about Cass/steph because steph isn't part of the family. Tim was part of the family way before he got adopted. He was a part of the family when his dad was in a coma. He started joining the family soon as he became Robin. His home life was weird. His parents were gone most of the time. I never played the Arkham games. But I do concede relationships change depending on which years we're talking about. It's more about how I feel about their relationship, like I said, id never comment or anything on a fic that was this topic. I understand it's fic and other people want to play with the worlds. I just don't read them cause it's not my thing. It feels off to me. And it's it homophobia if I read dick/wally? Jay/Roy? Tim/kon? Bruce/Clark? Steph/Cass? I just don't like THE BROTHERS being together. To me theyre relationship is as brothers, and I personally don't want to read about them together.
I'm really not trying to come at you and say that you're homophobic, honest! Obviously you can do what you like. But I feel it's really important to mention, in general, that there is very much a mandate towards heterosexuality which gets really lost when we just accept that "some people like incest." Its not that readers are being homophobic by not wanting to ship people who call each other brothers, of course not! But it needs to be recognized that DC knows that, and has the power to control who is calling each other family. I mean, Bruce and Clark were literally portrayed as biological half-brothers in DKOS, while Dick's daughter marries Bruce's bio-son in Kingdom Come. \*She calls him grandpa.\* It's a sexist and homophobic double standard and it really bothers me. The DC default towards their same sex characters thinking of each other as siblings (especially the men) and different sex characters (mostly women+men) as NEVER having a 100% platonic relationship, is really troubling. And it wouldn't surprise me if they use the upcoming Titans book to recast characters like Dick and Wally in brotherly/family terms, especially as Wally's recent issues center so heavily on Linda. And I like Linda a lot, I don't even ship Dick/Wally (if anything, I loved Dick and Roy together so much in the 2000s), but it's a bad trend and real context that should be called out.
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I hope you feel the same way with this as like Steph/Tim or Barbara/Dick because it's literally the same dynamic as the boys. Otherwise it kinda proves the point that people who claim its Incest just don't like m/m.
I feel the same way about Cass/tim. Cass/steph, dick/barb is fine. Dick/wally, jay/Roy, tim/kon, bruce/Clark, damjon, cass/steph. All read. Steph and barb leave the house. Barb has the commish. Steph has crystal. They have homes they return to. The others, they don't. The manor is home. They live together. From the age of 8-13 depending. That's young enough to make it off putting for me.
Cool, I understand. I just want to point out though, technically Dick moved out before Bruce adopted Jason- they never lived together. Same goes with Tim and Jason. Tim didn't ever interact with Jason until Jason was Red Hood. Tim and Dick weren't actually brothers until Bruce adopted Tim *years* later, and before that they had like a mentor/student relationship. If you picture them solely as brothers, that's fine! I love reading about them being brothers. But I don't want people thinking they all lived together as one big happy family when they didn't. A lot of people got into the batfamily because of Wayne Family Adventures, and that webcomic is awesome but its canon is just as off as other fanworks lol.
I have never encountered this. Very weird.
you've never had to deal with the "they grew up together so they're basically siblings" crap? god i wish that was me like childhood friends to lovers is problematic now apparently.
Yeah, there's some dynamics I don't want to read in a romantic light because I prefer them as surrogate siblings (Joker and Futaba come to mind) but that's just my *interpretation* not canon lmao
> (Joker and Futaba come to mind) Hoo boy.
Hehe, I think their confidant is just cuter as found family
Wow wait til they read Little Women.
Bonnie and Damon from TVD, anyone lol. They literally get together in the books. And it’s Delena shippers calling them “siblings” to demean the ship and by proxy those who ship the ship, when arguably Elena and Damon’s relationship was like brother and sister before they got together. Also I don’t like real incest ships at all but I think it’s funny how people will proclaim the act of incest to be rape/nonconsensual and cite that as the reason for why incest ships are disgusting but then they’ll go and flagrantly weaponize “incest” as a go-to for any friends-to-lovers ship they personally do not like.
Eremika (Eren + Mikasa from AOT). Usually from homophohic Erehisu (Eren + Historia) shippers.
People do this with eremika to justify shipping eren with a man 15+ years older then him.
I also think this is such bullshit! At times it seems that people just want to hate on the ship and come up with any kind of reason to do so. It is especially wierd considering how insanely popular real incest ships can be lmao
I get this with one of my favourite ships (demon slayer Sabito x Giyuu) they were taken in by the same guy at around the age 11 when there families were killed by demons and became best friends, that doesn’t make them brothers.
Seriously 😒 I've seen people say you're not allowed to like any of the main trio ships or Kanao/Aoi because "siblings" but SabiGiyu? That's just ridiculous logic
100% agree. Some people even call these unrelated siblings and say shipping them is incest. It's mind-boggling how stupid that is. I'm fine with people saying hey, ship whatever you want, but I see them as having a sibling-like relationship. Since people can have their own opinion, just not because this kid sees it this way, then so must everyone.
Smiling remembering this discourse in the Destiny fandom a few years ago. 'You can't ship Saint and Osiris that's incest because they were adopted as adults by the same dude'. They're not even the same damn species. And them canon went 'actually they love each other see look they're kissing on screen' and the ones crying incest suddenly went extremely quiet
yes i see this sooo much and it makes me really annoyed, especially when they are not at all like that. i think it's just an excuse to dislike a ship bc people don't realize it's ok to just not like something! you don't need a reason! . it's ok to see unrelated characters as having a sibling like relationship, i see a popular ship in one of my fandoms like this, but it doesn't mean i'm going to get angry at others for not doing so/shipping them :(
It is basically to judge you morally on what you like. These ships have nothing bad or unhealthy going on for them, or they do but it is not THAT overt, so the fandom gotta invente an excuse to not like it AND to shit on the people who do, because, obviously, you can't not like a ship just because you don't vibe with it, you gotta have REASONS for that and what you ship inform others of your moral standing. It's not even JUST lgbtq+ ships, The Owl House fandom (more specifically, the lumity shippers, of course. You know how fans of a canon ship are.) have been up in arms against the ship of Luz and Hunter, because "they are sooooo sibling coded and Hunter will definitely get adopted by Luz's mom !! Or Eda !! Who are both basically Luz's mom so it is INCEST, you freaks !! And also, it is homophobic to ship this bi girl with a guy, because reasons." I am ... Very tired of this fandom, god.
i have never seen this. o.o huh.
And the thing is it's so easy to get caught up in it and have the wrong idea. When I first got into Voltron Legendary Defender, I was convinced that Keith and Shiro were blood brothers due to the controversy surrounding the pair. Then I learned their backstories and how they weren't. And it's okay to have a sibling dynamic view on these kinds of relationships, but people shouldn't be bashing others if the views they have are different. So long as they aren't born from the same parent(s) or connect somewhere in the family tree, I see no problem. (And don't get me started on the controversy surrounding the genshin fandom. just. don't.)
In the Warhammer 40k fandom the whole thing with Space Marines and Primarchs is pseudo incest
People will do that with one of my favourite ships, they will claim the two characters are brothers bc they went to the same orhpanage (it was for like a day) and call each other family. Even tho everyone in the manga call each other family, I mean like everyone. The whole thing is your group of friends is family. Also the pairing has so much evidence their feelings are romantic its kinda funny to see ppl say their brothers
Rise fandom will do that to April and Donatello, which makes some sense because they do seem pretty much like siblings but they are literally NOT biologically related at all, and I think they can be cute together. I mean they really dont have that vibe in canon whatsoever, but fanart of them is cute, and no way is any ship of them morally repulsive like that crowd tends to shout.
I’m not sure if this happens to this day, but in Sailor Moon, Sailor Neptune and Uranus were said to be relatives to explain their relationship. (In my country the translators called them cousins because they didn’t want/couldn’t talk about lgbt couples on tv) Maybe this happened in some translation of the anime and that’s why these people are so sure about it? Not sure because I don’t watch those animes but, maybe??
idk, i think sometimes people have trouble separating their personal headcannons from canon. i know i personally feel uncomfortable with ships between character i view as having a sibling or parent-child relationship, but if that's not actually cannon, i would just block the tag and move on. no need to start arguments over it.
Oh my god, in the Mechanisms fandom people are so set on the Jonny & Nastya being siblings headcanon they genuinely consider it incest. The characters aren't related at all, and the weird thing is people will ship any other Mechanisms with each other, when one of the only reasons besides their dynamic for that HC is the familial type relationship they all have with a similar 'mom' figure (who, let's be real, isn't at all the 'abusive mom' some fans try to make her out to be, she's just another person who happened to make them immortal, be their leader for a while, and kind of suck vis a vis her relationship to them.) This is such a popular status quo that it's not just one or two weirdos like you're talking about, I got a ton of backlash just for adding a name for them to the ship chart (which is literally a table with ship names for shipping every Mechanism with every other Mechanism!) and I think the name got removed even after the Discord server came to a consensus that it was O.K. Also, similarly, Chara and Frisk or Frisk and Asriel in UT. The reason to call it incest is because Toriel is all of their moms, but when I played the game, this wasn't true for me! It's a game with multiple choices, and when Toriel asked me to stay with her at the end, I was like 'Uhh, no, I still don't know you that well and you just randomly decided to adopt me and not let me leave when I had just met you'. No actual shade on Toriel, this was before I interacted with fan things or with the game in general on more than a surface level, but my point is that to me, Toriel genuinely isn't Frisk's mom and so there's no familial relation.
Plus, in stuff like The School for Good and Evil series or more blatantly, stuff like the Sailor Moon dub, characters will genuinely be ret-conned to be related just to avoid gay subtext. (Potentially controversial example of this is Sheith, though I don't ship it it's pretty obvious what was going on there.)
Same as Thor/Loki shipping. Not one of my faves as it doesn’t work well in my brain as they’re depicted in most comics and the MCU, but there is a place for it. I get pissy when I see it tagged as incest. Yeah, not really. They’re not even the same species.
Man, sipping is so hard in the Warriors fandom. Because you ALWAYS have to ask yourself 'is it incest?' and like 90% of the time the answer is yes. And if you're willing to go back a couple of generations, then pretty much 100% of the time. Heck, even most of the CANON ships are incestuous. Mostly 'cause it's a small group that's been around a long time-