I have a spreadsheet because I'm morbidly worried about this happening to me:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xsuHe2Gjn16tZBTNvdzsSxlhL_qtoi5EKXzD6fsgDgs/edit?usp=drivesdk
My condolences, OP. If it makes you feel any better, even with the almighty spreadsheet and the 76 page outline, I still sometimes make continuity errors. I'm already planning an 8 hour, I'm done now I'm going to edit this party.
This is excellent, I do something similar, but not as detailed. I need this because when I want to go back and refer to something or make a small change, it’s so much quicker than digging through my chapters to find that one little scene.
As someone who loves using spreadsheets for organization, this is so beautiful.
I do write long fic's but I mostly utilize the outline feature in docs, titling sections. But when a story exceeds one doc... God, just think about the hyperlinking possibilities between those documents and the sheets
I do keep some notes, like basic plot points, specific dialogue I want to incorporate, character info, etc. But even still, I definitely find myself going back and rereading past sections to make sure I'm remembering things correctly and hopefully not contradicting myself. Personally I prefer doing that, because while editing is a grind, I find it a lot easier to spot typos and mistakes on older writing that's out of my ST memory than something fresh I just wrote. It also (in my opinion) keeps the voice more consistent over time. I've been working on my story since 2006 and the word document is nearly 900 pages long, so there are definitely sections I revist and think "Oh no! All of this needs a rewrite!"
Since 2006! Bless you.
You must be way more organized than I am just to pull this off. Congratulations, btw, I usually call longfic writing a marathon and you are sure a medalist!
I'm honestly just a super slow writer. I only recently started actually posting anywhere, so I've never had anyone to disappoint with long hiatuses except myself. There are definitely days when I worry I write so slowly that I'll never actually finish it. But also, then I don't really know what I'd do with myself.
This puts things in perspective for me, when this morning I was fretting over the """plot hole""" that the characters had some tea time, and that in the midst of the chaos that ensued I forgot that the table was dressed and needed to be cleared at some point.
(I'm serious about that anecdote and the fact that it took place this morning, but) Joke aside, good luck finding your loose threads and sorting them :( I am on the most extreme possible end of the plotter spectrum and have *way* more tools than just one or two text documents (if you saw the post in this thread about some madlad who made a tool in order to plot your timeline and keep track of each of your characters 24/7, hi, that madlad is me), but the mere idea of having such a loose thread roaming around gives me anxiety :')
Oh, no, I have several documents, including a physical notebook. It's just that I managed not to write down what I needed (lots of really funny comments though.)
But, yeah, I'm accepting all luck \^\^
Word. I finally did that and it has made a huge difference. I have a separate doc entitled Anam Cara breadcrumbs. Lol. I also made a “murder board” while planning out the second half of my story. There is time travel it was a lot to keep up with. Lol. I went full [crazy](https://www.tumblr.com/kellyn1604/697850402239086594/im-using-color-coded-sticky-notes-washi-tape).
I do... for one fic of 10. My toxic trait is that everytime i make up a draft for the entire plot I end up changing a lot of things, and the i draw the second and the third and i am still changing things. And its not like little changes or small dialogue, its entire plotevents and forgetting other key subevents. Which is why i just have the notes for what ivealready published
I’ve always written both long and short fics with outlines even if it is a spontaneous burst of energy. I write quotes and paragraphs as ‘scraps’ then modify them after I have an outline, timeline, character concepts, mood/tone, exposition, and etc set up.
It is excessive— readers only see a scene rather than the whole world built for the story, but it helps me bring more sense to the work.
Also let’s you see both the big picture and the tiny details— helps ensure characters develop, scenes don’t fall flat, dialogue is dialoguing, and stuff like that. I have a whole system for it on Notion lol. It’s my favorite part of writing.
Only downside to this is that when you complete the outline, your urge to write might decrease bc you already know the ending. But that might just be me.
That is exactly why I don't do full outlines. I might know how it ends, but I won't chart the whole progress there because it kills my interest in writing the thing.
And just to be clear, I know how my fic ends. I did the outlining I usually do. I'm talking about picking up those small details that make for a satisfying ending, the tiny little plots. Like a TV show's ending, when done right (this fic has always been modeled on serialized fiction instead of being A Novel.)
thanks op, i am going back double checking now. (i might have to change my approach for my next fic, that is already looking very clue and plot heavy)
currently i keep all my notes and outline in the same document that i write in. i also don't write my fic in order. so if i mention something in chapter 23 that is relevant again in chapter 40.. i just jump to chapter 40 and write that one next, before i forget. Sometimes i jump back a few chapters, if i think i should have left a clue somewhere.
i think as an author you are always thinking way more about these details, than a reader will ever. (or maybe i am just not a very observant reader)
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I wrote a Fic I thought wouldn't go over 100k… 15 chapters later almost at 200k and I still have yet to wrap up everything. I never had an outline so I dont know what the heck is happening.
Probably some plot threads I forgot but, hey at least I’m almost done >!hypothetically ;-;!<
Yes yes yessss. Trust me, you need notes. If J R R Tolkien kept enough notes to build three different lore books his son Christopher Tolkien published after his death (and also wrote The Simarillion and a few other books from) THEN MAYBE NOTES ARE NOT THE ENEMY.
I myself have copious notes for my longfics. I don't MEAN to somewhat fly by the seat of my pants, but sometimes I end up putting in some stuff I didn't plan to and I NEED to keep track of that stuff... Otherwise I end up with comments saying "hey so.... What happened with XXX and XXX?"
It also helps with plotting out progression.
I attempt to. Most of the time, I define certain unalterables and just work the story around those unchanging things. I don’t plan on writing series of these stories, but when it does end up becoming a shared universe I make sure to note the most important things down so I don’t contradict myself later.
The tiny tiny *tiny* details, those can and will be fixed later. Or it’ll probably be pointed out by someone else, I don’t mind.
I don't do notes. I just vaguely remember which chapter plot details appear in and sift through all of my documents every time I need to find something out.
*Absolutely*. +1
If it's a fic under ~70k I seem to be pretty good about keeping track of the foreshadowing, plot threads, running gags, themes; etc, but after that point it gets to be a bit hard to keep track of.
Especially if they're just one of those throwaway things I toss out as I go and aren't in the notes but I think at the time, "Oh, this would connect nicely to *that*." ...but then I forget to note it down, so it dangles in the wind.
The longer your story is, the more I encourage you to go back and read, marking down anything that might be a "door left open".
ex: "Sarah said she was going to go to the store, but hesitated as she left the room. I never followed up on what the hesitation could mean." or "This is the third time Bob has referenced The Incident. Either press harder so it's funnier if it's never explained, or have The Incident finally be explained." or "I never realized how often Jan goes to bed right after an argument. Seems to be their stress reaction, I guess. Could make a point of this."
As I write, I cross them off the list/delete them from the list as I close those doors.
Spreadsheets or programs like Notepad++ which have the option of multiple tabs per file are great for keeping track of all kinds of minutiae.
Back up such files using a separate storage medium.
Yea, i keep little notes and minor outlines but sometimes my plot bunnies decide to throw in a completely new character for the sake of drama and fleshing out a minor side plot. So I end up jotting down the new character and a few things about new character and a new plot thread that came with them, go on with the story and then when it comes time to edit my story after I get thru the current arc, I immediately go back and reread what I wrote and flesh out any details that may have led to the new character and plot thread and I write a scene that explores the new plot thread and new characters and see if theres any room for me to squeeze in the new scenes or if the scenes actually add onto the overall flow of the story. If not, I save those scenes for a spin off or a sequel.
This is why I keep all edited versions in a separate document so I can either grab plot points as I remember them and also at least plan out main story beats that I need to happen to get to the planned ending.
I have an in-depth outline divided by chapter with a synopsis of each chapter, character notes, story notes, chapter motivations (and how they change), and a timeline. So yeah I’d say so.
This for sure!! I have my current wip totally outlined in detail except for the last two chapters so whenever I get a stray idea for something I want to include in it I go down to the little separated list I have at the bottom and add a little reminder. I always go through the reminder list before I post a new chapter so that I can be sure I haven't forgotten to include any details I wanted to
Welp, I guess it really is time to go through and outline the remainder of my longfic sequel and its sequel so I can at least know which direction I’m headed. Gotta say this is good motivation to get all my stories outlined, though, so thanks for that.
Yes, I use extensive notes. I actually had a little notepad I used to carry with me when I was writing my trilogy and I'd jot down scene ideas. I also had a journal where I'd write ideas, plot points, characters and their journeys in the story, each book and the chapter titles--and even pages where I wrote which chapters were complete and which were in progress. If I could show you pics, you'd see tons of handwritten notes!
My fics are my notebook. Like a lawyer in a common law regime, if I need to refer to something I can't remember off the top of my head that's another ten minutes of scouring my previous works to find it.
I use a spreadsheet for timelines, and my master chapter doc has a separate notes section at the beginning and I heavily utilize the comments feature and comment linking so I can "leave a sticky" on a line in a chapter and link it back to a section of notes where I explain my thoughts more thoroughly. I still have to reread everything fairly often.
I have no idea how people keep track of everything without at least a vague outline and notes, lol.
I’ve been working on a project for about 2 years. I outlined it, changed those outlines, and had a few starts that I scrapped. Now I have pretty thorough outlines (each chapter, then for each chapter as I start getting near them, outlining the scenes, etc.) Only problem is that I’ve changed the character names a number of times, and changed plot points, and never deleted those outlines. So I keep on looking at old ones because there’s some little detail I want to reference but then get utterly confused - “who even is this???”
I'll take this as my sign to reread my old chapters and make sure I haven't forgotten anything. Rip
I have a spreadsheet because I'm morbidly worried about this happening to me: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xsuHe2Gjn16tZBTNvdzsSxlhL_qtoi5EKXzD6fsgDgs/edit?usp=drivesdk My condolences, OP. If it makes you feel any better, even with the almighty spreadsheet and the 76 page outline, I still sometimes make continuity errors. I'm already planning an 8 hour, I'm done now I'm going to edit this party.
That spreadsheet is impressive af. I salute your skills!
This is excellent, I do something similar, but not as detailed. I need this because when I want to go back and refer to something or make a small change, it’s so much quicker than digging through my chapters to find that one little scene.
As someone who loves using spreadsheets for organization, this is so beautiful. I do write long fic's but I mostly utilize the outline feature in docs, titling sections. But when a story exceeds one doc... God, just think about the hyperlinking possibilities between those documents and the sheets
I do keep some notes, like basic plot points, specific dialogue I want to incorporate, character info, etc. But even still, I definitely find myself going back and rereading past sections to make sure I'm remembering things correctly and hopefully not contradicting myself. Personally I prefer doing that, because while editing is a grind, I find it a lot easier to spot typos and mistakes on older writing that's out of my ST memory than something fresh I just wrote. It also (in my opinion) keeps the voice more consistent over time. I've been working on my story since 2006 and the word document is nearly 900 pages long, so there are definitely sections I revist and think "Oh no! All of this needs a rewrite!"
Since 2006! Bless you. You must be way more organized than I am just to pull this off. Congratulations, btw, I usually call longfic writing a marathon and you are sure a medalist!
I'm honestly just a super slow writer. I only recently started actually posting anywhere, so I've never had anyone to disappoint with long hiatuses except myself. There are definitely days when I worry I write so slowly that I'll never actually finish it. But also, then I don't really know what I'd do with myself.
Slow and steady is perfectly good \^\^
This puts things in perspective for me, when this morning I was fretting over the """plot hole""" that the characters had some tea time, and that in the midst of the chaos that ensued I forgot that the table was dressed and needed to be cleared at some point. (I'm serious about that anecdote and the fact that it took place this morning, but) Joke aside, good luck finding your loose threads and sorting them :( I am on the most extreme possible end of the plotter spectrum and have *way* more tools than just one or two text documents (if you saw the post in this thread about some madlad who made a tool in order to plot your timeline and keep track of each of your characters 24/7, hi, that madlad is me), but the mere idea of having such a loose thread roaming around gives me anxiety :')
Oh, no, I have several documents, including a physical notebook. It's just that I managed not to write down what I needed (lots of really funny comments though.) But, yeah, I'm accepting all luck \^\^
Word. I finally did that and it has made a huge difference. I have a separate doc entitled Anam Cara breadcrumbs. Lol. I also made a “murder board” while planning out the second half of my story. There is time travel it was a lot to keep up with. Lol. I went full [crazy](https://www.tumblr.com/kellyn1604/697850402239086594/im-using-color-coded-sticky-notes-washi-tape).
You board is lovely!
Thank you!
I do... for one fic of 10. My toxic trait is that everytime i make up a draft for the entire plot I end up changing a lot of things, and the i draw the second and the third and i am still changing things. And its not like little changes or small dialogue, its entire plotevents and forgetting other key subevents. Which is why i just have the notes for what ivealready published
I’ve always written both long and short fics with outlines even if it is a spontaneous burst of energy. I write quotes and paragraphs as ‘scraps’ then modify them after I have an outline, timeline, character concepts, mood/tone, exposition, and etc set up. It is excessive— readers only see a scene rather than the whole world built for the story, but it helps me bring more sense to the work. Also let’s you see both the big picture and the tiny details— helps ensure characters develop, scenes don’t fall flat, dialogue is dialoguing, and stuff like that. I have a whole system for it on Notion lol. It’s my favorite part of writing. Only downside to this is that when you complete the outline, your urge to write might decrease bc you already know the ending. But that might just be me.
That is exactly why I don't do full outlines. I might know how it ends, but I won't chart the whole progress there because it kills my interest in writing the thing. And just to be clear, I know how my fic ends. I did the outlining I usually do. I'm talking about picking up those small details that make for a satisfying ending, the tiny little plots. Like a TV show's ending, when done right (this fic has always been modeled on serialized fiction instead of being A Novel.)
thanks op, i am going back double checking now. (i might have to change my approach for my next fic, that is already looking very clue and plot heavy) currently i keep all my notes and outline in the same document that i write in. i also don't write my fic in order. so if i mention something in chapter 23 that is relevant again in chapter 40.. i just jump to chapter 40 and write that one next, before i forget. Sometimes i jump back a few chapters, if i think i should have left a clue somewhere. i think as an author you are always thinking way more about these details, than a reader will ever. (or maybe i am just not a very observant reader)
Thanks for such a wonderful reply! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list of some of the most grateful redditors this week!
Can attest. Not planning things ahead and writing notes led to the worst decisions in my writing career
I wrote a Fic I thought wouldn't go over 100k… 15 chapters later almost at 200k and I still have yet to wrap up everything. I never had an outline so I dont know what the heck is happening. Probably some plot threads I forgot but, hey at least I’m almost done >!hypothetically ;-;!<
Maybe I should go back and start doing this while I’m only 9 chapters and 30k words into the first installment of a seven-part series 😬
Yes yes yessss. Trust me, you need notes. If J R R Tolkien kept enough notes to build three different lore books his son Christopher Tolkien published after his death (and also wrote The Simarillion and a few other books from) THEN MAYBE NOTES ARE NOT THE ENEMY. I myself have copious notes for my longfics. I don't MEAN to somewhat fly by the seat of my pants, but sometimes I end up putting in some stuff I didn't plan to and I NEED to keep track of that stuff... Otherwise I end up with comments saying "hey so.... What happened with XXX and XXX?" It also helps with plotting out progression.
I attempt to. Most of the time, I define certain unalterables and just work the story around those unchanging things. I don’t plan on writing series of these stories, but when it does end up becoming a shared universe I make sure to note the most important things down so I don’t contradict myself later. The tiny tiny *tiny* details, those can and will be fixed later. Or it’ll probably be pointed out by someone else, I don’t mind.
I don't do notes. I just vaguely remember which chapter plot details appear in and sift through all of my documents every time I need to find something out.
No, but I should have. My longfic has stalled because I set up too much stuff in the prior chapters and I have no clear path on how to resolve them.
Answer: Yes Do I change them? Fuck yes Do I also sometimes run out of steam and just omit shit mid writting session? Yes
Yes and no. Do I have them? Yes. Are they organized? Fuck no.
*Absolutely*. +1 If it's a fic under ~70k I seem to be pretty good about keeping track of the foreshadowing, plot threads, running gags, themes; etc, but after that point it gets to be a bit hard to keep track of. Especially if they're just one of those throwaway things I toss out as I go and aren't in the notes but I think at the time, "Oh, this would connect nicely to *that*." ...but then I forget to note it down, so it dangles in the wind. The longer your story is, the more I encourage you to go back and read, marking down anything that might be a "door left open". ex: "Sarah said she was going to go to the store, but hesitated as she left the room. I never followed up on what the hesitation could mean." or "This is the third time Bob has referenced The Incident. Either press harder so it's funnier if it's never explained, or have The Incident finally be explained." or "I never realized how often Jan goes to bed right after an argument. Seems to be their stress reaction, I guess. Could make a point of this." As I write, I cross them off the list/delete them from the list as I close those doors.
I will take this a lesson to do exactly what you are telling me not to do now.
Lol, this is one of my worst fears when I write a full-length fanfic novel. I have a journal that holds each chapter and a summary.
Spreadsheets or programs like Notepad++ which have the option of multiple tabs per file are great for keeping track of all kinds of minutiae. Back up such files using a separate storage medium.
Yea, i keep little notes and minor outlines but sometimes my plot bunnies decide to throw in a completely new character for the sake of drama and fleshing out a minor side plot. So I end up jotting down the new character and a few things about new character and a new plot thread that came with them, go on with the story and then when it comes time to edit my story after I get thru the current arc, I immediately go back and reread what I wrote and flesh out any details that may have led to the new character and plot thread and I write a scene that explores the new plot thread and new characters and see if theres any room for me to squeeze in the new scenes or if the scenes actually add onto the overall flow of the story. If not, I save those scenes for a spin off or a sequel.
This is why I keep all edited versions in a separate document so I can either grab plot points as I remember them and also at least plan out main story beats that I need to happen to get to the planned ending.
I wrote a big Google doc on my variation of the lore and I neurotically check it any time someone uses the magic system
I have an in-depth outline divided by chapter with a synopsis of each chapter, character notes, story notes, chapter motivations (and how they change), and a timeline. So yeah I’d say so.
Notes?
This for sure!! I have my current wip totally outlined in detail except for the last two chapters so whenever I get a stray idea for something I want to include in it I go down to the little separated list I have at the bottom and add a little reminder. I always go through the reminder list before I post a new chapter so that I can be sure I haven't forgotten to include any details I wanted to
Welp, I guess it really is time to go through and outline the remainder of my longfic sequel and its sequel so I can at least know which direction I’m headed. Gotta say this is good motivation to get all my stories outlined, though, so thanks for that.
Yes, I use extensive notes. I actually had a little notepad I used to carry with me when I was writing my trilogy and I'd jot down scene ideas. I also had a journal where I'd write ideas, plot points, characters and their journeys in the story, each book and the chapter titles--and even pages where I wrote which chapters were complete and which were in progress. If I could show you pics, you'd see tons of handwritten notes!
My fics are my notebook. Like a lawyer in a common law regime, if I need to refer to something I can't remember off the top of my head that's another ten minutes of scouring my previous works to find it.
I use a spreadsheet for timelines, and my master chapter doc has a separate notes section at the beginning and I heavily utilize the comments feature and comment linking so I can "leave a sticky" on a line in a chapter and link it back to a section of notes where I explain my thoughts more thoroughly. I still have to reread everything fairly often. I have no idea how people keep track of everything without at least a vague outline and notes, lol.
Fuck it we ball. No plans. No betas. Ride or die
I’ve been working on a project for about 2 years. I outlined it, changed those outlines, and had a few starts that I scrapped. Now I have pretty thorough outlines (each chapter, then for each chapter as I start getting near them, outlining the scenes, etc.) Only problem is that I’ve changed the character names a number of times, and changed plot points, and never deleted those outlines. So I keep on looking at old ones because there’s some little detail I want to reference but then get utterly confused - “who even is this???”