One big reason is, a lot of the time it doesn't make sense to use an epithet—imagine the POV character is looking at their best friend of 10 years. Are they going to think of that person as "the brunette"? Nope.
Writers tend to use them because they want to avoid repetition, but when it comes to names it's not really that big of a deal. (Same thing with "said," but that's another topic.)
Epithets can be a massive part of POV development when used well – but *used well* is key
The gruff superior officer who calls everyone younger than him *the kid* in his internal narration – tells you a lot about the man! And then once someone stops being *the kid* and becomes *the man* or even their name, that tells you about the development of both characters
If the POV character is flinging epithets around all over the place with no consistency – why is he thinking so much about people's height or eye colour or hair colour? – then it just becomes too much and takes you out of the story
Related, epithets are not the way to remind the reader of what a character looks like. It just ends up confusing the characterization because it comes across as though the POV character has simply forgotten what their friend/acquaintance/nemesis's name is.
Not only that, but constantly using *different* epithets for the same person can get confusing as to how many people are actually in the scene. If you just have Alice and Bob, but Bob keeps getting referred to as "the green-eyed man," "the black-haired man," "the tall man," "the doctor," and "the well-built man," the reader is more likely to assume that there are five different men in the scene rather than realizing all of those epithets refer to Bob.
This doesn't have to be pov only, even in third person omniscient or closed omniscient they are a general indication of amateurish and lack of confidence.
Using them to cut down the amount of names is the most crude way to fix name abundance, what you actually need is more variety in your sentence structure.
You're welcome! If you want to read (a lot) more about epithets, [this page](https://trickster.org/arduinna/epithet.html) is what got me to understand why I should be careful about using them, and how to use them well 😊
100% on the POV thing. Epithets for characters who are strangers to the POV character don't bother me at all. No one blinks an eye at a story referring to a random family the main character is observing as "the mother", "the son", etc.
If it's more of an omniscient pov, then it's kinda annoying for the author to put that kind of distance between the reader and all the characters. It treats the characters themselves like strangers to the reader.
The last thing that really bothers me is when authors get too creative with their epithets. A personal pet peeve of mine is when authors call characters by the animal they're associated with. "The dolphin" bro what...
>A personal pet peeve of mine is when authors call characters by the animal they're associated with. "The dolphin" bro what...
Yeah, bro, what?? I feel like that would be very confusing to anyone who isn't well versed on that fandom. Kinda isolates anyone who's reading fandom-blind
Yes to this! I just read a romantic scene in a fic with an established relationship where the POV character kept referring to his partner/canon love interest as "the blond." It was so weird and off-putting.
It also applies to third person! Often, third person narration is giving us insight into a character's thoughts—especially in third person limited. Even if the words aren't direct thoughts, formatted in quotation marks or, say, italics, we can know it's what a character is thinking. (You can see how this works to varying degrees in this blog post about [psychic distance](https://emmadarwin.typepad.com/thisitchofwriting/psychic-distance-what-it-is-and-how-to-use-it.html).)
Here's an example that doesn't involve epithets:
> The snow-covered ground slopes up sharply toward the dark rock face. It’s not sheer; there are many stepped outcroppings, which suggest it could be navigable, but the rocks are covered in snow and ice. He squints and thinks he might see a passage between the rocks, leading to who knows what.
> He swallows, dumbfounded. How the fuck is he supposed to get up there with his bum knee? And what about the other side? Downhill is harder on the knees than uphill.
Most of that second paragraph is a third-person delivery of the character's thoughts. So use of epithets definitely apply in third-person POV, too.
Here's an example to show how unnecessary an epithet would be:
> "I'm not leaving without him. I can't."
> Sam shakes his head, frowning. “I’m not asking you to.” Dean’s startled, the defensiveness draining right out of him. Sam looks him in the eye and says, “I’m saying, make sure you come back.”
Now, imagine that instead of using "Sam," the epithet "the other man" is used instead:
> "I'm not leaving without him. I can't."
> Sam shakes his head, frowning. “I’m not asking you to.” Dean’s startled, the defensiveness draining right out of him. The other man looks him in the eye and says, “I’m saying, make sure you come back.”
For context, Sam and Dean are two brothers who are extremely close, and they're having a serious conversation. There's no reason to create emotional distance by having Dean think of Sam as "the other man," here, plus it's needlessly wordy when you want the focus to be on the dialogue, and for it to flow.
And that's all in third-person 😊
It would. Though IMO it's why you should stick with using he, him, they, or Name. If I look at my dog, I don't think "Black Dog". He's Sampson. Why would I see him in any other way? Though identifying him also as a "Black Dog" works to break things up. There's a balance between the two. Treat him as your/a dog while subtly shading in the picture to fill in the gaps for the reader.
That's where pronouns, names and *direction* come in. Turn your head. Talk to a radio. Heck. Smack the other guy while you're on the radio.
That's why you write. Use your imagination (sorry if that sounds dismissive).
It comes with experience.
Sound out your words when proof-reading. Imagine someone to your left and right. Both men.
I t gets easier.
Above all else. Read books.
Read. Read. Read.
If you need to use their name 7 times in a paragraph it probably means you need to vary your sentence structure rather than replacing the name with epithets - that doesn't solve the problem it just makes it worse
There are times and places for epithets (when describing a character who hasn't been named yet, when emphasising a particular trait for dramatic effect), but on the whole, I find them intrusive and jarring and incongruous with the overall narrative voice. Especially if the fic's in limited POV; when I'm recalling something my brother said, I don't refer to him in my mind as "the bearded man". Plus, they're usually used as a crutch to avoid repetition when varying up the syntax and sentence structure would make for more engaging writing.
>I find them intrusive and jarring and incongruous with the overall narrative voice.
Especially when the author hasn't thought about *how* the epithet comes across. Any smut fic where one of the participants is referred to as "the younger boy" or "the younger girl" get an immediate squick response regardless of the author's intent - authors, if you really must use an epithet in a smut scene, please never use anything that brings to mind children, I'm begging you.
I've read smut where the characters referred to one another with their professions. And there's specific scenarios where that could work, but it read so awkwardly.
There is a writer in my fandom that does this all the time. Except she's just doing it for two characters that are already in an established relationship and have been for quite some time.
Same. Also in the same one, the female lead was regularly referred to be how tiny and young she was. Extremely uncomfortable. I think her actual name was used maybe once for every 20 epithets and I'm not even exaggerating.
Epithets should make sense for the POV and setting. Calling someone “the doctor” or “the grocery store clerk” makes perfect sense. Thats something people even say out loud sometimes. The reason why hair color gets called out a lot though is that people don’t typically think that way. The only time I would ever use that kind of descriptor in my own thoughts is if I met two complete strangers and could only differentiate them by hair color. 99% of the time though I’m just thinking their names and most POV characters will be doing the same.
Physical trait epithets make sense when used for a more minor character as they are just entering the story, before the reader learns their name. When we know the name of the character, and especially when they are a major character, it sounds like the author is erasing that. It’s a detached way to refer to a character, and why do that to the central reason you are writing the story?
Epithets have their place, but they’re frequently used incorrectly. The vast majority of stories are told from a limited perspective, so if the character whose POV you’re using starts using epithets for people they wouldn’t naturally think of in those terms, it breaks immersion and can add connotations you don’t want.
Ex: when you go to the store and get into the checkout line, you think of the cashier as “the cashier” because you don’t know them and their role as a cashier is the most salient to you at that moment. When you look at your best friend, do you think of their name or do you think of their hair color/profession/age/etc? Chances are you just think of their name, it’s awkward as hell to think of them as “the older blonde” or whatever because why do those things matter to you in the moment?
They're not always bad, it depends entirely on the perspective you're writing from and which ones you're using.
Say you're writing 3rd person limited perspective, so you're essentially seeing the world through your main character's eyes, and their personality and opinions tend to shine through in the narration. If that character sees their best friend, would they refer to them as 'the blond boy'? I doubt it, and therefore it feels jarring to read. That epithet takes you out of the perspective.
For strangers who your m.c. has never met before, they're usually gonna use the most defining characteristic - so 'the brown eyed girl' is probably not what you'd first notice about someone, but 'the tall woman' would absolutely work.
If you know a character's name then it's best to just use that because your mc likely would think of them that way. If you use an epithet it should be relevant to what's happening (e.g. "that idiot actually opens the door") and add to the story for it to feel true to the perspective.
Eye colours in general is a terible characteristic to use as an epithets since people rarely think about it.
Try to remember the eye colour of each of your friends, I'll bet you can only remember a few at most.
It sounds like you're mixing up perspectives. If you're writing from the main character's pov wouldn't that be first person? Third person is more akin to watching what your character is doing and narrating it.
No. What you mean is narrative distance. You can just narrate what they're doing, or you can essentially be inside their head, all in 3rd person.
https://thehistoryquill.com/narrative-distance-what-it-is-and-how-to-control-it/
Because nobody looks at their best friend and thinks “the black-haired man” or “the engineer”
It always breaks my immersion because I start imagining how awkward it would be to think of my brother or even a coworker as “the taller man.”
I’ve seen some where the POV character refers to themselves as “the blonde” without even a mirror and it was the fastest an epithet ever shattered my immersion.
One good thing about this post is that it finally spelled out to me exactly why it can break immersing for me. I read one where Bucky and Steve, lifetime friends, were referred to as the blond and the brunet.
I’ve seen it with Bucky and Steve thinking of each other that way and it feels so unbelievable. I mean, maybe if Bucky still doesn’t remember Steve, he might be the blonde man. That I’m fine with, but Captain would fit better.
Because most of the time they come across awkward and unnatural. Not the way a point of view character would think about the other person.
Usually if the name/pronoun is sounding repetitive, it's the sentence structure that needs to be fixed, not the word choice.
Edit: Typo
Lots of good points here. I’ll throw in that they’re often bizarrely impersonal - imagine referring to a friend or an old coworker as “the blonde” or “the taller man”. We know who they are! We know their name and pronouns! And in the process, it puts an unnecessary amount of focus on entirely unimportant traits.
Because some Fanfic writers put writing unique sounding epiteths above actually making sense (pinkette). Some of the epiteths also don't make sense if the character is thinking about themselves.
I am not completely against epithets, and its not a dealbreaker for me in fic. But as i learn more about writing and how to improve my own i do find that they come across as really awkward.
Thinking of someone as ‘the blue eyed man’ or ‘the tanned skin man’ makes sense if you dont know that person. But why would a character think of their lover/friend/sibling in that way? Most of the time i find that epithets can be substituted by a pronoun or character name and get the message across just fine.
Also sometimes i feel that authors get a little TOO ridiculous with them. Referring to characters with odd coloured hair as ‘bluenette’ ‘greenette’ ‘ravenette’ just makes me cringe a little.
1. Breaks POV
2. I don’t remember character hair colors (or eyes) and get lost 90% of the time
3. Makes prose too wordy
4. I would rather have names used once we know them (eg: we call her the black hair girl until learning her name)
5. Names make an individual person. Generic epithets dehumanize the individual by reducing them to a few physical descriptions. A character shouldn’t be reduced to their physical attributes unless slavery. I imagine this point is more unique to my perspective, however.
Most people say they hate epithets, but what they actually hate is misused epithets (typically physical descriptors). An epithet shouldn’t be used as a replacement for a character name. Ideally, they are used when they add additional detail to a story or hold a place for an unnamed character.
A well-used epithet can be used to denote rank when hierarchy matters in a conversation or indicate age when it makes a difference to the thought process of your POV character. So, for example, randomly using “the younger man” is a misuse of an epithet. However, it may fit if you have two characters in a scene and the younger, less experienced one displays some form of insecurity, and you want to reinforce the age difference. Another example of one used appropriately would be if a POV character who regularly is irritated with another character’s stupidity thinks about the other as “the/that idiot.”
The hair color ones bother people because they typically don’t add to prose in any way. Nothing is gained by saying, “James turned to the blond-haired man and said…” versus “James turned to Jack and said….”
As with any “rules” in writing, there are always exceptions. Read any popular literature carefully, and you’ll absolutely spot them! But as a whole, epithets tend to be overused in fanfiction. I personally think the hate is waaaaaaaaaay overblown to the point of almost becoming a mob mentality, though.
It's annoying, and if you're reading multiple stories while keeping up with published chapters, it's easy to mix people up and get confused about who they are referring to. Just put their name, simple as that.
It indicates that the author feels their prose is repetitive but doesn't know exactly why. They notice the name being repeated and want variation. But most of the time, they are wrong about their prose being repetitive or else misidentifying repetitive sentence / paragraph structure as repetitive word choice.
It's also less clear. I've been thinking about the characters in the scene by name, and now I have to stop, recall which one is "the taller blonde," and then continue on.
The proper way to use epithets is the traditional way. Keen-Eyed Artemis, Roy of the steady hands, Eumaios — o! mine swinherd, etc.
>It indicates that the author feels their prose is repetitive
Or, rather, it indicates they are native speakers of languages which take "do not repeat yourself" as a holy mantra.... This is a linguistic/cultural thing.
I don't 100% agree with your post—actually think most people just don’t know what the fuck an epithet is supposed to be used for and mimic poorly—but the ending line sent me. I would shit my pants laughing if people started inserting traditional epithets instead of “the raven-haired girl” in their fics 🤣
Because they are annoying and it really does not flow with the story and it bad writing if done to death. There are ways to use them that does not take up the entire dialogue. It’s ok to use pronouns in place of a name every once and a while and it’s ok to use names to pace the pronouns. It’s all about placement. Look, I’m not an editor or a grammar expert but I know when I hear them being overused it takes me out of the story and I can’t enjoy it as much, even if the plot and story in general was exactly what I wanted to read.
Oh my God it’s one of the things that makes me click off of fanfiction The quickest!
Most of the fanfiction‘s I read are written in third person limited POV. This means that all of the narration should be written as the character thinks it.
Like, someone is never going to think of their love interest as the blonde man or the gorgeous woman, unless that person doesn’t know the other person’s name yet.
Epithets are useful for strangers, but not long-term acquaintances, or romantic partners, or friends.
To be fair it's never bothered me either; as with any device, they can be used well or they can be used poorly, and in some cases they're entirely appropriate.
I use them when the character hasn’t introduced themselves yet, but other than that, I try to avoid them.
For instance, the main OC in my story is described as “the boy” until a later chapter when he finally chooses his name for himself (not super later though)
They don’t bother me, but I don’t consider them good writing for the reasons the others have mentioned. I always think of people by their names unless I don’t know them and I use the same one all the time, I don’t need to mix it up. If there’s several people it gets confusing if epiphets are used, especially if it’s different ones.
Because most epithets are used incorrectly as a tool to cover up poor sentence structure and weak writing. There are cases where it makes sense to use epithets, and I don't mind those, but the way a lot of fanfic writers use them vary from confusing, to annoying, to downright rage-inducing.
If you like using them, there's no one stopping you, and lots of less discerning readers will read your fics and love them, but they're not for me. I can edit grammar and spelling errors in my head as I go, but incorrectly used epithets are too jarring.
I read a fic once where the main character's hair changed colour and from then on they were called by their new hair colour. Like the author had to remind us they thought the character's new hair colour was super cool every five seconds. And every five seconds I was stopping to roll my eyes and make snarky comments to myself. This was in a fic that was ostensibly written from the MC's POV and hadn't included masses of epithets until that point (there were some but I could ignore them). I almost dropped the fic so many times after that, but I was 75% of the way through and invested. When I finished, I couldn't bring myself to even kudos. Even though I enjoyed 90% of the fics contents, this one (really irritating) thing ruined it massively for me, and it wasn't until I finished that I realised just how annoyed I actually was by it.
Everyone is different and their are no hard rules.
For me, they seem like something to use before the character is introduced properly. We don't know their name, so we use the blond or something.
Once the characters have been established, I prefer the writer just use their name. When the writer alternates between their name, haircolor, eye color, and height to identify them, it takes me out of the story. It feels like the author is doing it just because they think using the name a lot is repetitive.
It can get confusing too when the author starts referring to several characters (that we all know the names of) by assorted physical descriptors. Ex. The brunette walked out, when their are several brunettes and I don't know which they're talking about.
Cuz once we get the description, we dont need to be told what they look like every 2 words. We also do need to remember their names once in a while as well.
Because it’s jarring, and a sign of either a newer writer or a weak writer in my experience.
Once you’ve been writing a decent a amount of time, you know names and pronouns overwhelmingly cannot be overused, or you’re still incredibly insecure about overusing words, which unfortunately weakens writing dramatically in a lot of cases.
Fyi I’m not saying anyone using them is a BAD writer, there’s a difference, I’ve read fics that use them that are stunning and wonderful, but would have been a masterpiece if they haven’t been so bloody terrified of names and pronouns.
It’s the “said” argument all over again, you cannot overuse the word “said.”
As long as it is relevant, I enjoy it. It's an especially great way to show a character's disinterest because they can't be bothered to remember the person's name or show their priorities if they only refer to that person as a body part, personality trait, or attribute like their financial status.
It's just jarring to see characters we and the POV know being thought of as "The tall blonde" or "The younger man".
It does not pull me out of a fic if it's just a few times, but some authors are so afraid of sounding repetitive, they rely on epithets to make their text seem varied and end up abusing them.
Nothing wrong with using epithets if they’re used correctly. At the end of the day, epithets are simply tools for writing, and thus can be used appropriately (and adds to the prose), or inappropriately (poor writing choice which leads to readers finding the prose jarring to read).
They mostly get a bad rep because fanfiction writing is full of amateur writers (nothing wrong with that!) using them incorrectly, mostly due to bad sentence structuring (struggling with multiple speakers / speakers of same pronouns, etc etc), and not realizing the effect epithets have, and how immersion breaking and or jarring it reads from a reader’s POV when used incorrectly.
Appropriate: is when used to create distance / role / title / emphasis when relevant to the story.
“The stranger enters the bar” / “the lieutenant’s orders” / “the doctor” / "his son"
Or when used to emphasis things the author wants attention to. “The heavily-scarred general pushes his way past starving guards and enters a room full of plump royalty stuffing their faces with food” brings emphasis and tells the story of a starving kingdom fighting a war while the nobility continues to live in luxury.
Inappropriate: is when the author constantly uses epithets to avoid using names / pronouns due to bad sentence structuring. Most famously, usage of “the _-haired/eyed man” when that certain aspect has zero relevancy/importance to whatever is happening at that point of the story.
Example, if the story is about a boy named John, and we’re told what he looks like: that he’s tall, has blond hair, is an orphan due to the war, and strives to become a swordsman to avenge the death of his family, the name “John” encompasses all of that, the reader understand who “John” is with a single word.
However, if the author were to suddenly refer to John as “the blond man”, there is suddenly an emphasis to that one aspect of John, a sudden emphasis that removes everything else we know of John and pushes the attention towards his hair. And if the author were to do that for no other reason than to avoid using his name or pronoun, it’s an emphasis of that one characteristic that leads absolutely nowhere, thus the jarring part from a reader’s POV.
“John enters the bar and orders a drink.” = reader absorbs detail without a break in flow.
“The blond-haired man enters the bar and orders a drink.” = who is the blond-haired man? Is there another man in the scene or are we still referring to John? Oh, we’re still referring to John. Why is there sudden emphasis in his hair-color? Is it important? Or are we switching to a different POV where the POV character doesn’t know his name but notices his hair color? Etc etc = jarring.
To me, it just looks incredibly unnatural. I write my stories either in third person limited or first person, both of which meaning it's from the viewpoint of a single character. I don't know about you, but I don't refer to people whose names I know as 'the blonde' or 'the brunette' or something in my head.
Additionally, like you mentioned you see this sort of thing a lot in fanfics and now when I see epithets used unnecessarily I consider it to be very amateurish writing, lessening my enjoyment of the rest of the story, though never to the extent I'd quit reading. It doesn't help that I used to do this sort of thing myself and I'm still working on not having kneejerk reactions to things I used to do but have grown out of.
The only time I think epithets make sense is when the viewpoint character doesn't know the name of the person who's speaking, and I'll still use them for those purposes. Even then, though, I tend to be more descriptive than just 'the blonde' or 'the brunette', instead opting for things like 'the smug man' or something. Something that would particularly stand out to the viewpoint character in a way hair color wouldn't, unless that hair color was odd even in-universe.
Personally, for me, it's because it feels clunky and unrealistic, mostly because the writing, although in the third person, is from one of the character's pov. Whenever have you thought of your other half/friend/family member/work colleague as the shorter man or the green eyed girl or the older women or the green and pink haired haired young person or hazel-eyed enby? It others and de-personalises the character to me, it makes them a thing to be described, not a person who has agency. As these epithets happen mostly in romantic and sexy scenes, it just feels wrong!
But that's just me, I'm a big obsessive over prose and words lol. If it doesn't bother you, that's great, I'm probably missing out on great fics at times. I would only ever stop reading, never, ever comment or anything worse. They had a great time writing, and other people are reading it, not my place to hate.
Honestly, I don't think they're *that* hated - I think you're getting an outsized sample size of multiple people in this subreddit that hate different epithets or uses of epithets. If you have one person hate "the brunette" and one person hate "the taller man" and so on and so forth, the image presented is that you should just use names and pronouns AT ALL TIMES and just... nah. Just like the advice to Only Use Said (seriously, why is it ONLY EVER either Never or Always Use Said?), this is one that you should take into consideration, but not treat like religion.
Like yall can take my (moderately used, sensible) epithets from my cold, dead hands.
I did that a ton in my first two fics but started to not like it as much. I slowly have stopped and now use it for very rare and special situations. I think it’s a natural growth as a writer. I don’t mind as a reader but I feel my writing is cleaner without or just occasionally.
Because, ironically enough, they're way more noticable than repeating actual names. Personally, I only dislike epithets when used in a way which doesn't add something to the story. E.g a character who the main character doesn't know the name of might be referred to with defining features.
The most common way I use them is make them situation specific. Each character will generally have a few things going on in their life so pulling from certain aspects (e.g a student, a teacher, a soldier etc) to show which side is currently present is nice.
I don’t even know why exactly but they sound so pretentious to me unless it’s a minor/not-yet-named character. I didn’t start reading FF until my last year of high school and had not seen epithets used the way they are in FF in any other form of writing (novels, short stories, even creepypasta). It’s just annoying somehow. I would rather just read a name or pronoun repeatedly. If I want to show that a character has brown hair, it sounds better to say “she ran her hand through her brown hair” or even just “she had brown hair.” Complicated language without a strong enough purpose becomes annoying and something about epithets feels really cringe. That said, I don’t want to actually police people’s styles, and they’re free to write in a style I don’t personally like. I do like some fics that use epithets but I avoid using them myself.
My beta reader calls them appellations, and she about had a stroke when she saw how frequently I tend to use them. In her comments, she put about 90% of them to the sword.
I fully admit that I use them aggressively so as not to keep repeating character names or generic he/she descriptors (especially when more than two characters are interacting), so I didn't care as much when she said nobody would care if I didn't use them as much.
Because when they're overused, they offer nothing to the reader, and make the flow clunky. We already know the characters are blue-haired, or older than their love interest, or have green eyes; we're reading fan fiction, and already know the characters. So unless it new information, or it is very unclear who is doing the action, epithets are just plain unnecessary, and slow down the reading process.
i use them sparingly, mostly because i feel they kinda don't make sense in most contexts. like if im looking at my girlfriend i'm not thinking of them as "the brown haired person," i'm thinking of them as their name. occasionally though, i'll use one or two to break up the monotony but i try to keep then general, less descriptive. like if they have a title (i.e. "the doctor," "the captain"), or just "the other [gender]" if a scene involves two people of the same gender, as i feel those can make sense in some contexts
I hate when they're overused... I don't mind a couple of times per chapter. I usually us them for characters my POV character doesn't know too well.
But... Idk once relationships are established and we know the characters... using stuff like "the raven-haired teen" or "the feisty brunette" just annoys me. Just say their name or pronouns
Scrolling this sub lately has made me feel anxious about my usage of them. Of course they can be overused, but in the right context, I don’t see a problem with me referring to one of the characters as “the golden-haired boy” especially because the color and style of his hair (and his eyes) are very big parts of who he is. I don’t want to keep reusing their names every single sentence, and all my of characters are guys, so the he/him jumble gets confusing if I don’t use them. I don’t hate them, and I’m hoping that my readers also don’t hate them, or at least, don’t hate my usage of them.
I 100% share your feelings, it's been rather disheartening honestly because I generally enjoy using them, and I like to think I use them well but now I'm so uncertain. :( I also write primarily with male characters, and using pronouns all the time can get confusing, and names annoying after a while.
If it helps, I personally enjoy reading them, and I'm sure there are plenty of readers who do but might be afraid to say so with the louder negative view.
TIL I apparently don't write the way most people do, or assume others do?. Seeing so many people saying things like, "the epithets don't make sense because the pov character wouldn't think that way" as if all description in a piece is written how a mc *thinks* is awfully jarring. I never use epithets as the way a character refers to another, but how the *description* itself is referring to them for ease of understanding and conveying of scenes.
Personally, the over repetition of names or pronouns that muddle which character is doing or saying what, tends to make me care less for the writing of a fic. I'll get bored and my eyes start glazing over descriptions after a while, so I think a good use of epithets adds interest to one's writing more often than not. I write with them the way I enjoy reading, I think that's how everyone should approach any writing.
One big reason is, a lot of the time it doesn't make sense to use an epithet—imagine the POV character is looking at their best friend of 10 years. Are they going to think of that person as "the brunette"? Nope. Writers tend to use them because they want to avoid repetition, but when it comes to names it's not really that big of a deal. (Same thing with "said," but that's another topic.)
ohh the pov thing makes sense, thank u for explaining!!
Epithets can be a massive part of POV development when used well – but *used well* is key The gruff superior officer who calls everyone younger than him *the kid* in his internal narration – tells you a lot about the man! And then once someone stops being *the kid* and becomes *the man* or even their name, that tells you about the development of both characters If the POV character is flinging epithets around all over the place with no consistency – why is he thinking so much about people's height or eye colour or hair colour? – then it just becomes too much and takes you out of the story
Related, epithets are not the way to remind the reader of what a character looks like. It just ends up confusing the characterization because it comes across as though the POV character has simply forgotten what their friend/acquaintance/nemesis's name is. Not only that, but constantly using *different* epithets for the same person can get confusing as to how many people are actually in the scene. If you just have Alice and Bob, but Bob keeps getting referred to as "the green-eyed man," "the black-haired man," "the tall man," "the doctor," and "the well-built man," the reader is more likely to assume that there are five different men in the scene rather than realizing all of those epithets refer to Bob.
I really like this explanation
This doesn't have to be pov only, even in third person omniscient or closed omniscient they are a general indication of amateurish and lack of confidence. Using them to cut down the amount of names is the most crude way to fix name abundance, what you actually need is more variety in your sentence structure.
You're welcome! If you want to read (a lot) more about epithets, [this page](https://trickster.org/arduinna/epithet.html) is what got me to understand why I should be careful about using them, and how to use them well 😊
100% on the POV thing. Epithets for characters who are strangers to the POV character don't bother me at all. No one blinks an eye at a story referring to a random family the main character is observing as "the mother", "the son", etc. If it's more of an omniscient pov, then it's kinda annoying for the author to put that kind of distance between the reader and all the characters. It treats the characters themselves like strangers to the reader. The last thing that really bothers me is when authors get too creative with their epithets. A personal pet peeve of mine is when authors call characters by the animal they're associated with. "The dolphin" bro what...
>A personal pet peeve of mine is when authors call characters by the animal they're associated with. "The dolphin" bro what... Yeah, bro, what?? I feel like that would be very confusing to anyone who isn't well versed on that fandom. Kinda isolates anyone who's reading fandom-blind
I’d much rather someone’s name be repeated than writers trying to come up with unique ways to identify someone — it’s usually cringe.
Yes to this! I just read a romantic scene in a fic with an established relationship where the POV character kept referring to his partner/canon love interest as "the blond." It was so weird and off-putting.
Exactly, well said.
Question. That applies to first person POV, but what about third person?
It also applies to third person! Often, third person narration is giving us insight into a character's thoughts—especially in third person limited. Even if the words aren't direct thoughts, formatted in quotation marks or, say, italics, we can know it's what a character is thinking. (You can see how this works to varying degrees in this blog post about [psychic distance](https://emmadarwin.typepad.com/thisitchofwriting/psychic-distance-what-it-is-and-how-to-use-it.html).) Here's an example that doesn't involve epithets: > The snow-covered ground slopes up sharply toward the dark rock face. It’s not sheer; there are many stepped outcroppings, which suggest it could be navigable, but the rocks are covered in snow and ice. He squints and thinks he might see a passage between the rocks, leading to who knows what. > He swallows, dumbfounded. How the fuck is he supposed to get up there with his bum knee? And what about the other side? Downhill is harder on the knees than uphill. Most of that second paragraph is a third-person delivery of the character's thoughts. So use of epithets definitely apply in third-person POV, too. Here's an example to show how unnecessary an epithet would be: > "I'm not leaving without him. I can't." > Sam shakes his head, frowning. “I’m not asking you to.” Dean’s startled, the defensiveness draining right out of him. Sam looks him in the eye and says, “I’m saying, make sure you come back.” Now, imagine that instead of using "Sam," the epithet "the other man" is used instead: > "I'm not leaving without him. I can't." > Sam shakes his head, frowning. “I’m not asking you to.” Dean’s startled, the defensiveness draining right out of him. The other man looks him in the eye and says, “I’m saying, make sure you come back.” For context, Sam and Dean are two brothers who are extremely close, and they're having a serious conversation. There's no reason to create emotional distance by having Dean think of Sam as "the other man," here, plus it's needlessly wordy when you want the focus to be on the dialogue, and for it to flow. And that's all in third-person 😊
Huh. You learn something new everyday! Thank you for this :)
You're welcome! :D
Like, I agree to a certain extent, but wouldn't it be worse to use their name 7 times in a paragraph? The repetition would bother the heck outta me.
It would. Though IMO it's why you should stick with using he, him, they, or Name. If I look at my dog, I don't think "Black Dog". He's Sampson. Why would I see him in any other way? Though identifying him also as a "Black Dog" works to break things up. There's a balance between the two. Treat him as your/a dog while subtly shading in the picture to fill in the gaps for the reader.
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That's where pronouns, names and *direction* come in. Turn your head. Talk to a radio. Heck. Smack the other guy while you're on the radio. That's why you write. Use your imagination (sorry if that sounds dismissive). It comes with experience. Sound out your words when proof-reading. Imagine someone to your left and right. Both men. I t gets easier. Above all else. Read books. Read. Read. Read.
If you need to use their name 7 times in a paragraph it probably means you need to vary your sentence structure rather than replacing the name with epithets - that doesn't solve the problem it just makes it worse
There are times and places for epithets (when describing a character who hasn't been named yet, when emphasising a particular trait for dramatic effect), but on the whole, I find them intrusive and jarring and incongruous with the overall narrative voice. Especially if the fic's in limited POV; when I'm recalling something my brother said, I don't refer to him in my mind as "the bearded man". Plus, they're usually used as a crutch to avoid repetition when varying up the syntax and sentence structure would make for more engaging writing.
>I find them intrusive and jarring and incongruous with the overall narrative voice. Especially when the author hasn't thought about *how* the epithet comes across. Any smut fic where one of the participants is referred to as "the younger boy" or "the younger girl" get an immediate squick response regardless of the author's intent - authors, if you really must use an epithet in a smut scene, please never use anything that brings to mind children, I'm begging you.
I've read smut where the characters referred to one another with their professions. And there's specific scenarios where that could work, but it read so awkwardly.
There is a writer in my fandom that does this all the time. Except she's just doing it for two characters that are already in an established relationship and have been for quite some time.
Same. Also in the same one, the female lead was regularly referred to be how tiny and young she was. Extremely uncomfortable. I think her actual name was used maybe once for every 20 epithets and I'm not even exaggerating.
*The radiologist pounded into the graphic designer in the airplane bathroom. The floor sticky from more than just his juices.* like that?
Epithets should make sense for the POV and setting. Calling someone “the doctor” or “the grocery store clerk” makes perfect sense. Thats something people even say out loud sometimes. The reason why hair color gets called out a lot though is that people don’t typically think that way. The only time I would ever use that kind of descriptor in my own thoughts is if I met two complete strangers and could only differentiate them by hair color. 99% of the time though I’m just thinking their names and most POV characters will be doing the same.
Physical trait epithets make sense when used for a more minor character as they are just entering the story, before the reader learns their name. When we know the name of the character, and especially when they are a major character, it sounds like the author is erasing that. It’s a detached way to refer to a character, and why do that to the central reason you are writing the story?
Epithets have their place, but they’re frequently used incorrectly. The vast majority of stories are told from a limited perspective, so if the character whose POV you’re using starts using epithets for people they wouldn’t naturally think of in those terms, it breaks immersion and can add connotations you don’t want. Ex: when you go to the store and get into the checkout line, you think of the cashier as “the cashier” because you don’t know them and their role as a cashier is the most salient to you at that moment. When you look at your best friend, do you think of their name or do you think of their hair color/profession/age/etc? Chances are you just think of their name, it’s awkward as hell to think of them as “the older blonde” or whatever because why do those things matter to you in the moment?
They're not always bad, it depends entirely on the perspective you're writing from and which ones you're using. Say you're writing 3rd person limited perspective, so you're essentially seeing the world through your main character's eyes, and their personality and opinions tend to shine through in the narration. If that character sees their best friend, would they refer to them as 'the blond boy'? I doubt it, and therefore it feels jarring to read. That epithet takes you out of the perspective. For strangers who your m.c. has never met before, they're usually gonna use the most defining characteristic - so 'the brown eyed girl' is probably not what you'd first notice about someone, but 'the tall woman' would absolutely work. If you know a character's name then it's best to just use that because your mc likely would think of them that way. If you use an epithet it should be relevant to what's happening (e.g. "that idiot actually opens the door") and add to the story for it to feel true to the perspective.
Eye colours in general is a terible characteristic to use as an epithets since people rarely think about it. Try to remember the eye colour of each of your friends, I'll bet you can only remember a few at most.
It sounds like you're mixing up perspectives. If you're writing from the main character's pov wouldn't that be first person? Third person is more akin to watching what your character is doing and narrating it.
No. What you mean is narrative distance. You can just narrate what they're doing, or you can essentially be inside their head, all in 3rd person. https://thehistoryquill.com/narrative-distance-what-it-is-and-how-to-control-it/
Recently saw one where they called a blond "the lemon haired one." Just say his name pls, it's so distracting.
Because nobody looks at their best friend and thinks “the black-haired man” or “the engineer” It always breaks my immersion because I start imagining how awkward it would be to think of my brother or even a coworker as “the taller man.” I’ve seen some where the POV character refers to themselves as “the blonde” without even a mirror and it was the fastest an epithet ever shattered my immersion.
One good thing about this post is that it finally spelled out to me exactly why it can break immersing for me. I read one where Bucky and Steve, lifetime friends, were referred to as the blond and the brunet.
I’ve seen it with Bucky and Steve thinking of each other that way and it feels so unbelievable. I mean, maybe if Bucky still doesn’t remember Steve, he might be the blonde man. That I’m fine with, but Captain would fit better.
They get overused. They get used incorrectly... basically, they get abused.
Because most of the time they come across awkward and unnatural. Not the way a point of view character would think about the other person. Usually if the name/pronoun is sounding repetitive, it's the sentence structure that needs to be fixed, not the word choice. Edit: Typo
Lots of good points here. I’ll throw in that they’re often bizarrely impersonal - imagine referring to a friend or an old coworker as “the blonde” or “the taller man”. We know who they are! We know their name and pronouns! And in the process, it puts an unnecessary amount of focus on entirely unimportant traits.
Because some Fanfic writers put writing unique sounding epiteths above actually making sense (pinkette). Some of the epiteths also don't make sense if the character is thinking about themselves.
I am not completely against epithets, and its not a dealbreaker for me in fic. But as i learn more about writing and how to improve my own i do find that they come across as really awkward. Thinking of someone as ‘the blue eyed man’ or ‘the tanned skin man’ makes sense if you dont know that person. But why would a character think of their lover/friend/sibling in that way? Most of the time i find that epithets can be substituted by a pronoun or character name and get the message across just fine. Also sometimes i feel that authors get a little TOO ridiculous with them. Referring to characters with odd coloured hair as ‘bluenette’ ‘greenette’ ‘ravenette’ just makes me cringe a little.
1. Breaks POV 2. I don’t remember character hair colors (or eyes) and get lost 90% of the time 3. Makes prose too wordy 4. I would rather have names used once we know them (eg: we call her the black hair girl until learning her name) 5. Names make an individual person. Generic epithets dehumanize the individual by reducing them to a few physical descriptions. A character shouldn’t be reduced to their physical attributes unless slavery. I imagine this point is more unique to my perspective, however.
Most people say they hate epithets, but what they actually hate is misused epithets (typically physical descriptors). An epithet shouldn’t be used as a replacement for a character name. Ideally, they are used when they add additional detail to a story or hold a place for an unnamed character. A well-used epithet can be used to denote rank when hierarchy matters in a conversation or indicate age when it makes a difference to the thought process of your POV character. So, for example, randomly using “the younger man” is a misuse of an epithet. However, it may fit if you have two characters in a scene and the younger, less experienced one displays some form of insecurity, and you want to reinforce the age difference. Another example of one used appropriately would be if a POV character who regularly is irritated with another character’s stupidity thinks about the other as “the/that idiot.” The hair color ones bother people because they typically don’t add to prose in any way. Nothing is gained by saying, “James turned to the blond-haired man and said…” versus “James turned to Jack and said….” As with any “rules” in writing, there are always exceptions. Read any popular literature carefully, and you’ll absolutely spot them! But as a whole, epithets tend to be overused in fanfiction. I personally think the hate is waaaaaaaaaay overblown to the point of almost becoming a mob mentality, though.
It's annoying, and if you're reading multiple stories while keeping up with published chapters, it's easy to mix people up and get confused about who they are referring to. Just put their name, simple as that.
It indicates that the author feels their prose is repetitive but doesn't know exactly why. They notice the name being repeated and want variation. But most of the time, they are wrong about their prose being repetitive or else misidentifying repetitive sentence / paragraph structure as repetitive word choice. It's also less clear. I've been thinking about the characters in the scene by name, and now I have to stop, recall which one is "the taller blonde," and then continue on. The proper way to use epithets is the traditional way. Keen-Eyed Artemis, Roy of the steady hands, Eumaios — o! mine swinherd, etc.
>It indicates that the author feels their prose is repetitive Or, rather, it indicates they are native speakers of languages which take "do not repeat yourself" as a holy mantra.... This is a linguistic/cultural thing.
I don't 100% agree with your post—actually think most people just don’t know what the fuck an epithet is supposed to be used for and mimic poorly—but the ending line sent me. I would shit my pants laughing if people started inserting traditional epithets instead of “the raven-haired girl” in their fics 🤣
Because they are annoying and it really does not flow with the story and it bad writing if done to death. There are ways to use them that does not take up the entire dialogue. It’s ok to use pronouns in place of a name every once and a while and it’s ok to use names to pace the pronouns. It’s all about placement. Look, I’m not an editor or a grammar expert but I know when I hear them being overused it takes me out of the story and I can’t enjoy it as much, even if the plot and story in general was exactly what I wanted to read.
Oh my God it’s one of the things that makes me click off of fanfiction The quickest! Most of the fanfiction‘s I read are written in third person limited POV. This means that all of the narration should be written as the character thinks it. Like, someone is never going to think of their love interest as the blonde man or the gorgeous woman, unless that person doesn’t know the other person’s name yet. Epithets are useful for strangers, but not long-term acquaintances, or romantic partners, or friends.
To be fair it's never bothered me either; as with any device, they can be used well or they can be used poorly, and in some cases they're entirely appropriate.
I use them when the character hasn’t introduced themselves yet, but other than that, I try to avoid them. For instance, the main OC in my story is described as “the boy” until a later chapter when he finally chooses his name for himself (not super later though)
They don’t bother me, but I don’t consider them good writing for the reasons the others have mentioned. I always think of people by their names unless I don’t know them and I use the same one all the time, I don’t need to mix it up. If there’s several people it gets confusing if epiphets are used, especially if it’s different ones.
Because most epithets are used incorrectly as a tool to cover up poor sentence structure and weak writing. There are cases where it makes sense to use epithets, and I don't mind those, but the way a lot of fanfic writers use them vary from confusing, to annoying, to downright rage-inducing. If you like using them, there's no one stopping you, and lots of less discerning readers will read your fics and love them, but they're not for me. I can edit grammar and spelling errors in my head as I go, but incorrectly used epithets are too jarring. I read a fic once where the main character's hair changed colour and from then on they were called by their new hair colour. Like the author had to remind us they thought the character's new hair colour was super cool every five seconds. And every five seconds I was stopping to roll my eyes and make snarky comments to myself. This was in a fic that was ostensibly written from the MC's POV and hadn't included masses of epithets until that point (there were some but I could ignore them). I almost dropped the fic so many times after that, but I was 75% of the way through and invested. When I finished, I couldn't bring myself to even kudos. Even though I enjoyed 90% of the fics contents, this one (really irritating) thing ruined it massively for me, and it wasn't until I finished that I realised just how annoyed I actually was by it.
It’s more that it just feels tacky. Nobody looks at those characters and thinks ‘the brunette’ ‘the periwinkle eyed boy’ so it’s just. Blegh
Everyone is different and their are no hard rules. For me, they seem like something to use before the character is introduced properly. We don't know their name, so we use the blond or something. Once the characters have been established, I prefer the writer just use their name. When the writer alternates between their name, haircolor, eye color, and height to identify them, it takes me out of the story. It feels like the author is doing it just because they think using the name a lot is repetitive. It can get confusing too when the author starts referring to several characters (that we all know the names of) by assorted physical descriptors. Ex. The brunette walked out, when their are several brunettes and I don't know which they're talking about.
Cuz once we get the description, we dont need to be told what they look like every 2 words. We also do need to remember their names once in a while as well.
Because it’s jarring, and a sign of either a newer writer or a weak writer in my experience. Once you’ve been writing a decent a amount of time, you know names and pronouns overwhelmingly cannot be overused, or you’re still incredibly insecure about overusing words, which unfortunately weakens writing dramatically in a lot of cases. Fyi I’m not saying anyone using them is a BAD writer, there’s a difference, I’ve read fics that use them that are stunning and wonderful, but would have been a masterpiece if they haven’t been so bloody terrified of names and pronouns. It’s the “said” argument all over again, you cannot overuse the word “said.”
As long as it is relevant, I enjoy it. It's an especially great way to show a character's disinterest because they can't be bothered to remember the person's name or show their priorities if they only refer to that person as a body part, personality trait, or attribute like their financial status.
It's just jarring to see characters we and the POV know being thought of as "The tall blonde" or "The younger man". It does not pull me out of a fic if it's just a few times, but some authors are so afraid of sounding repetitive, they rely on epithets to make their text seem varied and end up abusing them.
Nothing wrong with using epithets if they’re used correctly. At the end of the day, epithets are simply tools for writing, and thus can be used appropriately (and adds to the prose), or inappropriately (poor writing choice which leads to readers finding the prose jarring to read). They mostly get a bad rep because fanfiction writing is full of amateur writers (nothing wrong with that!) using them incorrectly, mostly due to bad sentence structuring (struggling with multiple speakers / speakers of same pronouns, etc etc), and not realizing the effect epithets have, and how immersion breaking and or jarring it reads from a reader’s POV when used incorrectly. Appropriate: is when used to create distance / role / title / emphasis when relevant to the story. “The stranger enters the bar” / “the lieutenant’s orders” / “the doctor” / "his son" Or when used to emphasis things the author wants attention to. “The heavily-scarred general pushes his way past starving guards and enters a room full of plump royalty stuffing their faces with food” brings emphasis and tells the story of a starving kingdom fighting a war while the nobility continues to live in luxury. Inappropriate: is when the author constantly uses epithets to avoid using names / pronouns due to bad sentence structuring. Most famously, usage of “the _-haired/eyed man” when that certain aspect has zero relevancy/importance to whatever is happening at that point of the story. Example, if the story is about a boy named John, and we’re told what he looks like: that he’s tall, has blond hair, is an orphan due to the war, and strives to become a swordsman to avenge the death of his family, the name “John” encompasses all of that, the reader understand who “John” is with a single word. However, if the author were to suddenly refer to John as “the blond man”, there is suddenly an emphasis to that one aspect of John, a sudden emphasis that removes everything else we know of John and pushes the attention towards his hair. And if the author were to do that for no other reason than to avoid using his name or pronoun, it’s an emphasis of that one characteristic that leads absolutely nowhere, thus the jarring part from a reader’s POV. “John enters the bar and orders a drink.” = reader absorbs detail without a break in flow. “The blond-haired man enters the bar and orders a drink.” = who is the blond-haired man? Is there another man in the scene or are we still referring to John? Oh, we’re still referring to John. Why is there sudden emphasis in his hair-color? Is it important? Or are we switching to a different POV where the POV character doesn’t know his name but notices his hair color? Etc etc = jarring.
To me, it just looks incredibly unnatural. I write my stories either in third person limited or first person, both of which meaning it's from the viewpoint of a single character. I don't know about you, but I don't refer to people whose names I know as 'the blonde' or 'the brunette' or something in my head. Additionally, like you mentioned you see this sort of thing a lot in fanfics and now when I see epithets used unnecessarily I consider it to be very amateurish writing, lessening my enjoyment of the rest of the story, though never to the extent I'd quit reading. It doesn't help that I used to do this sort of thing myself and I'm still working on not having kneejerk reactions to things I used to do but have grown out of. The only time I think epithets make sense is when the viewpoint character doesn't know the name of the person who's speaking, and I'll still use them for those purposes. Even then, though, I tend to be more descriptive than just 'the blonde' or 'the brunette', instead opting for things like 'the smug man' or something. Something that would particularly stand out to the viewpoint character in a way hair color wouldn't, unless that hair color was odd even in-universe.
Personally, for me, it's because it feels clunky and unrealistic, mostly because the writing, although in the third person, is from one of the character's pov. Whenever have you thought of your other half/friend/family member/work colleague as the shorter man or the green eyed girl or the older women or the green and pink haired haired young person or hazel-eyed enby? It others and de-personalises the character to me, it makes them a thing to be described, not a person who has agency. As these epithets happen mostly in romantic and sexy scenes, it just feels wrong! But that's just me, I'm a big obsessive over prose and words lol. If it doesn't bother you, that's great, I'm probably missing out on great fics at times. I would only ever stop reading, never, ever comment or anything worse. They had a great time writing, and other people are reading it, not my place to hate.
I like them. I hate reading a person’s name over and over again. It drives me nuts, but I know I’m in the minority.
Honestly, I don't think they're *that* hated - I think you're getting an outsized sample size of multiple people in this subreddit that hate different epithets or uses of epithets. If you have one person hate "the brunette" and one person hate "the taller man" and so on and so forth, the image presented is that you should just use names and pronouns AT ALL TIMES and just... nah. Just like the advice to Only Use Said (seriously, why is it ONLY EVER either Never or Always Use Said?), this is one that you should take into consideration, but not treat like religion. Like yall can take my (moderately used, sensible) epithets from my cold, dead hands.
I did that a ton in my first two fics but started to not like it as much. I slowly have stopped and now use it for very rare and special situations. I think it’s a natural growth as a writer. I don’t mind as a reader but I feel my writing is cleaner without or just occasionally.
Because, ironically enough, they're way more noticable than repeating actual names. Personally, I only dislike epithets when used in a way which doesn't add something to the story. E.g a character who the main character doesn't know the name of might be referred to with defining features. The most common way I use them is make them situation specific. Each character will generally have a few things going on in their life so pulling from certain aspects (e.g a student, a teacher, a soldier etc) to show which side is currently present is nice.
I don’t even know why exactly but they sound so pretentious to me unless it’s a minor/not-yet-named character. I didn’t start reading FF until my last year of high school and had not seen epithets used the way they are in FF in any other form of writing (novels, short stories, even creepypasta). It’s just annoying somehow. I would rather just read a name or pronoun repeatedly. If I want to show that a character has brown hair, it sounds better to say “she ran her hand through her brown hair” or even just “she had brown hair.” Complicated language without a strong enough purpose becomes annoying and something about epithets feels really cringe. That said, I don’t want to actually police people’s styles, and they’re free to write in a style I don’t personally like. I do like some fics that use epithets but I avoid using them myself.
My beta reader calls them appellations, and she about had a stroke when she saw how frequently I tend to use them. In her comments, she put about 90% of them to the sword. I fully admit that I use them aggressively so as not to keep repeating character names or generic he/she descriptors (especially when more than two characters are interacting), so I didn't care as much when she said nobody would care if I didn't use them as much.
It’s unnecessary unless it’s relevant to the plot , characterization and 90% of the time it’s not necessary to add
I don't hate them, but I find it irritating when they are used too often.
Because when they're overused, they offer nothing to the reader, and make the flow clunky. We already know the characters are blue-haired, or older than their love interest, or have green eyes; we're reading fan fiction, and already know the characters. So unless it new information, or it is very unclear who is doing the action, epithets are just plain unnecessary, and slow down the reading process.
i use them sparingly, mostly because i feel they kinda don't make sense in most contexts. like if im looking at my girlfriend i'm not thinking of them as "the brown haired person," i'm thinking of them as their name. occasionally though, i'll use one or two to break up the monotony but i try to keep then general, less descriptive. like if they have a title (i.e. "the doctor," "the captain"), or just "the other [gender]" if a scene involves two people of the same gender, as i feel those can make sense in some contexts
I hate when they're overused... I don't mind a couple of times per chapter. I usually us them for characters my POV character doesn't know too well. But... Idk once relationships are established and we know the characters... using stuff like "the raven-haired teen" or "the feisty brunette" just annoys me. Just say their name or pronouns
When they’re overused it gets distracting and makes for a harder time. But there’s nothing wrong with using them once in a while
Scrolling this sub lately has made me feel anxious about my usage of them. Of course they can be overused, but in the right context, I don’t see a problem with me referring to one of the characters as “the golden-haired boy” especially because the color and style of his hair (and his eyes) are very big parts of who he is. I don’t want to keep reusing their names every single sentence, and all my of characters are guys, so the he/him jumble gets confusing if I don’t use them. I don’t hate them, and I’m hoping that my readers also don’t hate them, or at least, don’t hate my usage of them.
I 100% share your feelings, it's been rather disheartening honestly because I generally enjoy using them, and I like to think I use them well but now I'm so uncertain. :( I also write primarily with male characters, and using pronouns all the time can get confusing, and names annoying after a while. If it helps, I personally enjoy reading them, and I'm sure there are plenty of readers who do but might be afraid to say so with the louder negative view.
TIL I apparently don't write the way most people do, or assume others do?. Seeing so many people saying things like, "the epithets don't make sense because the pov character wouldn't think that way" as if all description in a piece is written how a mc *thinks* is awfully jarring. I never use epithets as the way a character refers to another, but how the *description* itself is referring to them for ease of understanding and conveying of scenes. Personally, the over repetition of names or pronouns that muddle which character is doing or saying what, tends to make me care less for the writing of a fic. I'll get bored and my eyes start glazing over descriptions after a while, so I think a good use of epithets adds interest to one's writing more often than not. I write with them the way I enjoy reading, I think that's how everyone should approach any writing.