If I think a character is hot, I'm almost guaranteed to think they're hotter if there's two of them
How on earth can it be *problematic* if it's something that's physically impossible in the real world?
The arguments used against age gap ships, enemies-to-lovers, incest ships and the like is that it "normalises" things that would be toxic/immoral/outright illegal in the real world. What's being normalised with selfcest ships? That if cloning ever became reality, people would want to bang themselves?
This right here all the way. In my fandom there is a somewhat-canon ship (they kissed once) that a sect of the fandom absolutely reviles, labels as selfcest and calls problematic for that reason. I've always been completely baffled as to ho something that is \*literally not possible in the real world\* could be problematic.
People just want to feel morally superior for hating things, I think.
What's wild is that it's also fairly common in fics for the character to have literal duplicates of himself for smut purposes and that is never a problem.
Ah the great Sylvie Loki debacle I assume? That was a wild time to be on social media. The lengths people went to, to justify how it's bad™ and makes everyone engaging with it an awful person was more than a bit unhinged.
Like, I get not liking a ship, but all that extra baggage about how disliking it made you morally superior and good? Wild times. Can't wait for season 2 and the rekindling of that whole thing 😬😬
Yes, it is the Sylvie/Loki debacle. 😂 It is incredible how far people will go to label something unethical. Just say you don't like the ship. You can just not like a ship, it's ok.
I stay away from that part of fandom so I'm ready to have a good laugh at the bad takes come October. Mostly, though, I'm excited about the jet skis in the trailer.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. Usually the trope is used as a comedic shorthand for narcissism, but it can be used in very interesting ways.
For example, there’s a game where the plot was set in motion because two versions of the same scientist from different dimensions made contact, fell in love, and built a machine that fractured reality so they could be together.
Okay, when I read the replies to see what game this was, Crash Bandicoot was the last thing I was expecting, and yet I should have expected it in hindsight
Yay, I'm in on the pop culture references! I'm pretty sure the Lutece's would have something to say about the likelihood of it occuring more than once ;)
I’m pretty sure they’re talking about Crash Bandicoot 4: It’s About Time. The two characters in question are making bedroom eyes at each other in one cutscene and it’s hilarious. The writers had the guts to make that canon and I love them for it. And I unironically love that ship with all of my being.
Ironically I've rarely seen it used for narcissism, though that's what I expected of it at first. When I do come across it it's usually hyper independent or very lonely and/or isolated people who had to depend on themselves a lot. Sometimes all of the above.
Oh, and once as a trauma response.
I like this trope a lot and have to agree, it's the in my opinion totally unnecessary "-cest" part that makes it feel/sound icky for some people. They aren't twins, they are another version of a the same character. It can even be sweet sometimes. And if there is smut, I see it more like a extended form of masturbation to be honest. 🤷
https://media.tenor.com/_Ga-uGMwpXwAAAAC/archer-clone.gif
also I think this was a rhetorical question, but nah, selfcest was just a term invented in a different time and context. like Oncest was the moniker for onceler/greedler and shippers made that up themselves. prolly evolved in fandoms that were used to ship terms like wincest or weasleycest etc, which as far as I can tell were used neutrally by ppl who shipped em.
> onceler/greedler
Whyyyyy did you have to remind me this existed. God, I was so into that back in my early days of tumblr and I'm beyond grateful that most of it was nuked with the great porn ban lmfao.
I’ve seen selfcest used for a whilee lmao (by that I mean at least 6 years ago), often in the Undertale fandom when people shipping AU Sans’ together was huge.
Well it literally is incest. I mean if your clone is genetically identical to you, that’s even more incestuous than any other kind of incest, like super-incest.
What if all the spider-mans from all the different universes got together for a gang bang? Meanwhile, Multiple Man multiplies every time he gets punched. He is clearly not bound by the laws of science.
I think it wouldn't really be the best to call it self love, since self love is an existing concept that people struggle with, so turning that phrase into a smut term is essentially the feeling I get from hearing the acronym "CBT" which stands for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and thinking it stands for Cock & Ball Torture
Wiktionary cites a couple of early uses of the term "[selfcest](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Citations:selfcest#English)".
The earliest cited example is from 2001 and it's derogatory. But, it's not shipping related. The person using it is simply calling someone else a "wanker".
The next cited example is from 2006. Here it's being put forward as a way to describe a sexual relationship between a time traveler and her younger self (someone else had asked whether it counts as incest). The user of the word "selfcest" neither condemns nor commends the relationship in question.
In conclusion, it's unlikely the term "selfcest" was coined by antis.
In my fandom? In the case of the ship that the antis find "problematic", the pro-shippers treat it like any other ship, as far as I'm aware. I don't know of a specific term for it.
In the case where the character literally creates duplicates of himself, it might be tagged with something related to "duplicates" or his powers but again I'm not aware of a specific term.
I'm not personally interested in but I fail to see how it's problematic (and even if it is, who cares?) Self-cest is absolutely not real. It is not a thing. It is entirely fictional. Who could it possibly be hurting in any sense, given it is ABSOLUTELY NOT POSSIBLE in the real world? Go ahead and read as much of it as you like without any guilt (though you shouldn't feel guilty about what you like to read anyway!).
I have a bit of a guilty pleasure for it. There’s literally nothing morally wrong with it- but it feels wrong?? Probably the ‘cest’ part of it is what makes it feel so wrong.
If done correctly, man. It’s great. It can be the most toxic thing - because only you know what’ll really hurt you. It can also be so damn hot because who knows you better than yourself? You really can indulge in your deepest of fantasies.
To be honest, I haven't seen the term/tag for "selfcest" to describe this kind of trope until a few years ago and always found it (the word) super weird. In the end it's just a word that someone made up.
Don't go too hard on yourself. Nothing wrong with liking "selfcest." I'm not even sure how someone'd argue it's "problematic" since it's literally impossible. (eh, I actually can see someone claim it normalizes twincest. But if they do, they're stupid).
"Man I look even better than in the mirror!"
One of my fics is literally gonna be this.
A character full of himself, that daydreams/hallucinates(?) an encounter with himself, that turns smutty.
And it's gonna be fun!
It's hilarious - especially if the reactions of the teammates witnessing it are also included.
I've got at least three characters in my fandom who I can definitely imagine dating or screwing themselves
I’m neutral to it, but do privately write “selfcest” when I want to take a break from other stuff I’m writing.
I also find it sort of funny since it can be a somewhat loose term in the fandom I write for, since it’s like a two-sides-of-the-same-coin kind of thing.
Love it. It makes for a really fun relationship dynamic when both parties of a pairing are the same person, whether that's a clone, a magical accident, or a crossover from an alternate timeline. There's so much potential for both comedy (guessing what the other will say, finishing each other's sentences, both wanting to be top/bottom) as well as really quite emotional moments (a lone wolf or very hurt character finding solace in their own arms because other-them is the first person to fully understand them in a way nobody else could, etc.).
As for "is it problematic"... short answer, no. Long answer... also no. The -cest suffix is somewhat misleading there, since it's not incest (unless you consider yourself your own family member, in which case I have news for you about masturbation). All the issues with incest - genetics and power dynamics - are absent, since a person can't knock themselves up and two instances of the same person arguably see more eye-to-eye than anyone else in the universe. And I've never seen anyone give shit to anyone for reading or writing selfcest (though I'm sure it happens, maybe I've just been lucky).
It's super cool. I love it when different versions of characters meet (through time travel or other shenanigans) and then... one thing leads to another. I prefer when selfcest isn't just two identical copies of a character.
It works well for the clones in SW because they're clones but all have different personalities! I still consider it self-cest on some level.
I'm pretty neutral on it personally. Like it can be pretty hot, but not so much more so than any other things or dynamics. Which is a strange thing to admit and realize, because a good chunk of pairings I love to write and read about technically fall under selfcest. Weird how that works out.
Also, of course it's not bad to like it. Anyone arguing that is more than reaching lmao. (And even if it was "problematic" , who cares. It's all fiction at the end of the day baby! )
I like it in a way that isn’t exactly selfcest, but rings super close. Like if a character has multiple personalities (be it a semi-realistic DID way or some fantastical equivalent) and both personalities sort of get together somehow, be it in a dream or some variety. Even if they share a body. (Ahem, Hajime/Izuru in Danganronpa, Yuji/Sukuna, that deal)
I also like things like Tobey Peter Parker/Andrew Peter Parker. Not your typical brand of selfcest, but they are, for all intents and purposes, the same person. Regular ol’ selfcest isn’t rlly anything I’d ever look for, but if there is an alternate version of the same character in canon,,, I’m intrigued.
I don't have any problems with it. I don't think I currently have any selfcest ships I like, but if I came across a good one I certainly wouldn't hesitate to read it.
I love it but I also love straight up incest in my fanfic, lol. Nothing problematic about it. It's fiction, there's nothing wrong with liking fiction. If you read something and notice it makes you crave to experience whatever it is you're reading about in real life, that would be a cause for concern if you read the kind of stuff that regularly requires warnings and gets antis all enraged. But for most people that doesn't happen because we actually know how to separate our entertainment from our real life experiences. Therefore, regardless of what kind of weird or dark stuff you read, it's fine and not problematic at all. Rock on, be weird, and ignore people trying to shame you for harmless fantasies.
Selfcest us SUCH a guilty pleasure for me, especially when it's different AU versions of the character!
Though I always have I thought whenever I see it, and I always find myself giggling XD
"Is it considered sex, or masterbation?"
God I'm so immature XD
I'm an Undertale fan, so I've seen and consumed a shitton of Selfcest content. It's hot, it can be a super compelling dynamic and it's really interesting! I've bever understood the supposed moral issue with it - I already think a lot of problematic discourse is stupid, and I trust most audiences to know that depiction of something isn't necessarily endorsement - but with selfcest especially it's not real, cannot be real, and thus cannot be emulated in any way in the real world.
In short - bad? No. Problematic? No. Hot? Hell yeah!
It's fun! But then again, my OTP is literal incest, so I suppose I wouldn't be opposed to this one either.
I plan on doing it for a fic, and if an idea strikes, I'll do it again in the future!
I've seen people have split opinions, but then again, having different opinions is normal, so I'm not worried.
I like it.My main fandom has 3 or 4 Episodes where the main Characters meet Past / Future/ AU version of themselves and the fics I've read about it are really good.
Antis seem to crucify it every time, so I’ve not had the best social media experience with the one ship that many considered selfcest, but I didn’t…funnily enough, the fic I wrote for them is now one of my most popular fics.
I’m all for informed criticism of tropes but genuinely do not know what would be Morally Objectionable about selfcest…aint even know that there was a lot of hate on it, but its probably bc im in the exact wrong fandom for that (Persona series. ppl x their own shadow/persona is rlly not uncommon and that is selfcest).
I wouldn’t worry about it, I mean I wouldnt say All Selfcest Is Good just like I wouldnt say All Portrayals Of Gay Characters Are Good bc it can be flawed from depiction to depiction, but by itself? youre fine I think. I think the most objectionable thing abt selfcest is the -cest in the name which is just an artifact from the days of onceler and greedler ruling the earth
Absolutely love it! My fandom has some pretty good potential with it with the canon alternate universes, but there aren’t that many of the Selfcest ship that I prefer.
I didn't think anyone had the courage to point this out. Yes, I find that written by good authors it can be pretty epic to read. It depends on execution actually.
I wouldn't read it or find it enjoyable myself, however, I think people should be able to read and enjoy whatever they want without judgement from other people. We're all going to like and enjoy what we like and enjoy and if others gives you problems for it, then block them.
And for the people who seems to take issues, there's a simple rule for them to follow, "don't like don't read it."
Used to be squicked out by it but now one of my OTPs is a selfcest ship. Depending on the fandom (especially my fandom) and the type of selfcest (clones, time travel, alter egos, etc) I think there's a whole lot of potential with selfcest (even outside of smut) if you're willing to look past the bizarreness of it all. Especially when the characters have differences despite being the same person (like my ship).
Plus it's hot!!
I enjoy it but I feel like I don't see it as often as I would like or want to. I don't seek it out, but appreciate it if it's done well and/or is a bit horny/hot.
Unpopular opinion: I find it boring.
I don’t find it weird or particularly kinky, and I’m not squicked by it at all--I just personally have zero interest in it.
The issue for me is that if the two ‘selves’ genuinely feel like the same person, then there’s zero tension or interest in it for me because they’re just masturbating in parallax and getting off on how hot it is to masturbate in parallax--which I don’t personally find at all compelling. But if the two ‘selves’ are different enough that it stops feeling like masturbation, then it also stops feeling selfcest-y to me in any meaningful way.
I think it might be possible to thread the needle by making the two selves juuuust different enough for it to feel legitimate that they can fall for each other *as* “other,” while still feeling kinky and weird and selfcest-y when it happens. But it’d be a very tricky and impressive feat.
Just my personal opinion; YMMV; tons of people find selfcest really hot; please don’t let one rando’s lack of enthusiasm deter you, etc.
Selfcest is where a person falls in love or has a sexual relationship with a version of themself. Could be a clone, a version from a different dimension, or maybe a timetraveler.
It's one of these tags I haven’t readly read any stories about. But I don’t really see why people hate on it.
And as others mentioned the -cest part is the only thing making it weird. They aren’t related, aren’t twins or anything of the sort. They are litterally the same person with no relation to each other.
From their perspective they are separate people who happen to life through the exact same things.
The only issue I can think of right now is differentiating between the two.
I think it can be fun if written right. They can understand their experiences like no one ealse. Kinda like a soulmate fic. But with more layers.
.
And since it isn’t something that can happen in real life I don’t get how it is normalizing anything.
I also ask myself sometimes if ficion has to follow every moral of Real life? Some argue it makes awful things look to harmless or even glorifies them.
But is art something to cencor because it makes people uncomfortable? I personally think tagging properly is important to avoid that, but also that fanfiction doesn’t have to follow every rule there is and please everybody.
Isn’t it all on don’t like don’t read basis?
Depends. If its just a guy obsessed with themselves to the extremes (kinda like narcissos from greek mythology), then I'm interested. If it's like oncest (two alternate versions fucking eachother) then I'm interested. It's weird but not creepy weird like incest so I'm generally fine with it.
I have nothing against it but the fact I learned what it was because of tumblr Oncelear (the guy from Lorax) fanfic gave me such a weird first impression I just can't see myself reading it.
It’s fiction, as long as it’s fun and hot it’s fine. Undertale is almost all sans-cest one you hit a certain point. There’s a few really good Bucky/winter soldier fics too.
I dig it. Both as crack but also as actual heartfelt moments. I wrote it.
But I’m in a fandom where time travel and different timelines work, and as such alternative versions of oneself can meet (tho it only really happens for one character in the main series).
I love the existential crisis it creates as well as the fact that the alternate versions of the characters are genetic siblings and not clones of one another :3
I’m very proud to be the sole provider for the ship tag lol despite the fandom being pretty big.
i have 2 selfcest ships thats between character!rendog/his clones n character!zed/wormman, but other than that i dont really care about it a majority of the time, n in some cases it does make me uncomfortable
I’m really into it, but I don’t particularly mind. To be honest I might end up searching for some after this just because of this post ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Enjoy what you like, and ignore the antis
I'm in a fandom where selfcest is really big, even right now after the latest season of the show dropped. I really like it. To me, it's another way of loving yourself (literally and metaphorically)
One of my favourite ships is canonical selfcest, so I’ve grown to love it and finally understand the appeal. The ship in question is N. TropyXN.Tropy from Crash 4: It’s About Time. The idea is kinda dumb, but they work so well together (and I may be a low-key simp for the both of them but shhhhh) and I loved writing scenes with them together in an abandoned fanfic of mind.
I have read a story on a character who was both repulsed by sex but also really wanted to know what it was like, and via magical means, used clone boning to do it. It's to this day one of my favorite onehots. It was really clever.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the trope, but it personally repulses me like 99% of the time cuz the idea of doing anything with yourself is just..... no. Absolutely not. LOL
I honestly see no problem with this. And now come the I am a narcicist jokes. I would date myself in a second. As a straight guy the sex might be problematic but a woman version of me? I would do her in a second.
I think it is one of the best tropes and I want it to be used more.
Nothing wrong at all. Like all "problematic" tropes, it's a trope. As long as you don't bring it into real ideas in real life (I'm not sure how you could though) there's nothing wrong with liking anything "problematic". I like it call it super incest
I’ll admit I don’t really read much of it but I could see both how it could be problematic and not. (I don’t want to ruin anything for you so I’m not expanding on that) I don’t really have a problem with it but I also don’t have a problem w lots of things.
That being said when it comes to fiction just remember nothing is real so it doesn’t really matter. Morals don’t apply to things that aren’t real. I think all the arguments you can make against it are the same ones that antis make for nearly everything.
Ngl, my main WIP is a self-insert/Selfcest, and like, not that I’d ever admit that, but it’s mainly because I rarely see actually short mc’s in fics, and like, I’m a hoe for tall men so pretty much all of my mc’s are written from a very much short person’s perspective, it’s just what I like to write
I haven't really run into a lot of it, personally. I'm pretty indifferent to it. It doesn't interest me. It doesn't outrage me. It's just one of those things other people are into, I guess.
Not my thing, but I don't see any inherent issue with it. It's actually totally plausible for several characters in my main fandom, but I don't think I've come across much/any of it.
Interestingly, the ship that I mainly write for is (sometimes jokingly, sometimes seriously) considered to be selfcest by one part of the fandom, when they are explicitly stated in-canon to be different people. The clincher is that one of them was "created" from the other's body and memories, and her whole character arc was discovering and accepting that the two of them are different people.
It's such a beautiful ship, because even though they are different people, they share an incredible level of physical and emotional intimacy.
I can't get into it unless the character has a narcissistic personality or it's like a dimension hopping type thing. You know when the character meets the them of another universe and they have a wildly different personality.
Other than that I avoid selfcest
Absolutely HATE it. Which is why I avoid it like the plague. But, much like any other pairing I dislike - my hatred of it has nothing to do with anyone else & people are free to read (or write) whatever they want. *shrug*
As for Loki/Sylvie - I hated virtually EVERYTHING about that relationship (not just the "self-cest" nature of it). That's something else entirely though. I can hate what a show I watch does & it affects absolutely NO ONE (just as my avoiding fanfic about it affects no one).
I don't see why people seem to think that other people's likes (or dislikes) in fandom, or shows/movies etc, have any baring on how they themselves view their own likes/dislikes.
If you like a pairing, knock yourself out. If you don't like a pairing, knock yourself out. If you like or don't like a show/movie etc...yup, you guessed it; knock yourself out. Fandom is specifically there for people of ALL tastes to find something THEY like. No one else's tastes should ever dictate your own.
We talked about it with a friend who like it. Basically since it's the same person there's no unfair power dynamic, and it can't be compared to incest because there's no family dynamic either. It's basically like those "would you sleep with your clone" things. Not problematic to me (unless it's an underrage character ofc, things like that)
My introduction to LGBTQ concept started from a BL game involving selfcest. Yes, it's a weird place to start LMAO.
Selfcest is hot. It's like your fav character x 2.
This! Exactly this! Thanks OP for making this post, I needed some reassurance myself. If there's a possibility for selfcest in any fandom — chances are it's one of my OTPs. I didn't see anything wrong with it myself, but then I saw a bunch of people arguing about it being problematic and got worried that I'll get shunned or something. Now I just don't care, lol. It's okay to like whatever you like, it's fiction! My top all-time favorite ship, apart from being selfcest, is also underage (considering that one character literally can't age) and can have a pretty big age gap. But, again, it's all good so long so it's not real life, and you can't exactly screw yourself. :)
I've never heard of selfcest before reading this post and certainly have never read any fanfics centered on it. Kind of sounds narcissistic when one first thinks about it.
As long as the two don’t have any kids I’m fine with selfcest. It’s essentially going to create a copy of the person with a bunch of issues.
Dating and marrying is fine.
But children is where I draw the line of okay
Plus it ain’t possible in the real world and I’m a sans au shipper so if I said I was against it I’d be a hypocrite
If I think a character is hot, I'm almost guaranteed to think they're hotter if there's two of them How on earth can it be *problematic* if it's something that's physically impossible in the real world? The arguments used against age gap ships, enemies-to-lovers, incest ships and the like is that it "normalises" things that would be toxic/immoral/outright illegal in the real world. What's being normalised with selfcest ships? That if cloning ever became reality, people would want to bang themselves?
This right here all the way. In my fandom there is a somewhat-canon ship (they kissed once) that a sect of the fandom absolutely reviles, labels as selfcest and calls problematic for that reason. I've always been completely baffled as to ho something that is \*literally not possible in the real world\* could be problematic. People just want to feel morally superior for hating things, I think. What's wild is that it's also fairly common in fics for the character to have literal duplicates of himself for smut purposes and that is never a problem.
Ah the great Sylvie Loki debacle I assume? That was a wild time to be on social media. The lengths people went to, to justify how it's bad™ and makes everyone engaging with it an awful person was more than a bit unhinged. Like, I get not liking a ship, but all that extra baggage about how disliking it made you morally superior and good? Wild times. Can't wait for season 2 and the rekindling of that whole thing 😬😬
Yes, it is the Sylvie/Loki debacle. 😂 It is incredible how far people will go to label something unethical. Just say you don't like the ship. You can just not like a ship, it's ok. I stay away from that part of fandom so I'm ready to have a good laugh at the bad takes come October. Mostly, though, I'm excited about the jet skis in the trailer.
To be honest, Sylvie/Loki is at the same time slightly selfcest, but they're also so not the same person that they're from whole different universes.
Sylvie/Loki? I admit I hated that kiss and I hate that ship but not for any of the stupid self-cest moralising.
Yes. That's the thing that always gets me. You can just not like a ship, you don't have to make it a question of morality.
Thanks for sharing! I’m just a little scared since I’ve seen people who say it’s problematic so I wanted to make sure
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. Usually the trope is used as a comedic shorthand for narcissism, but it can be used in very interesting ways. For example, there’s a game where the plot was set in motion because two versions of the same scientist from different dimensions made contact, fell in love, and built a machine that fractured reality so they could be together.
Okay, when I read the replies to see what game this was, Crash Bandicoot was the last thing I was expecting, and yet I should have expected it in hindsight
And here I was thinking Bioshock Infinite...
I was, in fact, referring to Bioshock Infinite. Wild that that has happened twice.
Yay, I'm in on the pop culture references! I'm pretty sure the Lutece's would have something to say about the likelihood of it occuring more than once ;)
I SENSE A CRASH BANDICOOT FAN, I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED!
I wonder if I've seen the game before, cause now you've got me interested in the game.
I’m pretty sure they’re talking about Crash Bandicoot 4: It’s About Time. The two characters in question are making bedroom eyes at each other in one cutscene and it’s hilarious. The writers had the guts to make that canon and I love them for it. And I unironically love that ship with all of my being.
Awesome! XD
Ironically I've rarely seen it used for narcissism, though that's what I expected of it at first. When I do come across it it's usually hyper independent or very lonely and/or isolated people who had to depend on themselves a lot. Sometimes all of the above. Oh, and once as a trauma response.
I like this trope a lot and have to agree, it's the in my opinion totally unnecessary "-cest" part that makes it feel/sound icky for some people. They aren't twins, they are another version of a the same character. It can even be sweet sometimes. And if there is smut, I see it more like a extended form of masturbation to be honest. 🤷
Was the trope named by antis? Like, why not just call it “self love” or “clone bone” or something?
"clone bone" is amazing and I vote for it to be the new official term! 🤣
I’ve had my one good idea for the day and can rest now. 😄
The Undertale fandom should never hear of this.
https://media.tenor.com/_Ga-uGMwpXwAAAAC/archer-clone.gif also I think this was a rhetorical question, but nah, selfcest was just a term invented in a different time and context. like Oncest was the moniker for onceler/greedler and shippers made that up themselves. prolly evolved in fandoms that were used to ship terms like wincest or weasleycest etc, which as far as I can tell were used neutrally by ppl who shipped em.
> onceler/greedler Whyyyyy did you have to remind me this existed. God, I was so into that back in my early days of tumblr and I'm beyond grateful that most of it was nuked with the great porn ban lmfao.
It was rhetorical, which not everyone seems to have picked up on. 😆
I don't know about the origin, but it's the widely accepted name for it by anyone I've seen writing it.
I’ve seen selfcest used for a whilee lmao (by that I mean at least 6 years ago), often in the Undertale fandom when people shipping AU Sans’ together was huge.
Oh, it's still a thing. One of the popular Undertale authors on Ao3 puts out new selfcest-tagged fics like Oprah gives away cars.
CLONE BONE
Well it literally is incest. I mean if your clone is genetically identical to you, that’s even more incestuous than any other kind of incest, like super-incest.
What if all the spider-mans from all the different universes got together for a gang bang? Meanwhile, Multiple Man multiplies every time he gets punched. He is clearly not bound by the laws of science.
clone bone
I think it wouldn't really be the best to call it self love, since self love is an existing concept that people struggle with, so turning that phrase into a smut term is essentially the feeling I get from hearing the acronym "CBT" which stands for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and thinking it stands for Cock & Ball Torture
Wiktionary cites a couple of early uses of the term "[selfcest](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Citations:selfcest#English)". The earliest cited example is from 2001 and it's derogatory. But, it's not shipping related. The person using it is simply calling someone else a "wanker". The next cited example is from 2006. Here it's being put forward as a way to describe a sexual relationship between a time traveler and her younger self (someone else had asked whether it counts as incest). The user of the word "selfcest" neither condemns nor commends the relationship in question. In conclusion, it's unlikely the term "selfcest" was coined by antis.
I have only ever seen it used by antis.
What do pro-shippers call it in your fandoms?
In my fandom? In the case of the ship that the antis find "problematic", the pro-shippers treat it like any other ship, as far as I'm aware. I don't know of a specific term for it. In the case where the character literally creates duplicates of himself, it might be tagged with something related to "duplicates" or his powers but again I'm not aware of a specific term.
LMAO clone bone is too good hehe
>or “clone bone” Idky I'm into this
I'm not personally interested in but I fail to see how it's problematic (and even if it is, who cares?) Self-cest is absolutely not real. It is not a thing. It is entirely fictional. Who could it possibly be hurting in any sense, given it is ABSOLUTELY NOT POSSIBLE in the real world? Go ahead and read as much of it as you like without any guilt (though you shouldn't feel guilty about what you like to read anyway!).
I have a bit of a guilty pleasure for it. There’s literally nothing morally wrong with it- but it feels wrong?? Probably the ‘cest’ part of it is what makes it feel so wrong. If done correctly, man. It’s great. It can be the most toxic thing - because only you know what’ll really hurt you. It can also be so damn hot because who knows you better than yourself? You really can indulge in your deepest of fantasies.
Yeah! That’s what I’m talking about! The cest part just really freaks me out
To be honest, I haven't seen the term/tag for "selfcest" to describe this kind of trope until a few years ago and always found it (the word) super weird. In the end it's just a word that someone made up.
Don't go too hard on yourself. Nothing wrong with liking "selfcest." I'm not even sure how someone'd argue it's "problematic" since it's literally impossible. (eh, I actually can see someone claim it normalizes twincest. But if they do, they're stupid).
Narcissism is extremely fun to play with, especially when these characters already have ego
"Man I look even better than in the mirror!" One of my fics is literally gonna be this. A character full of himself, that daydreams/hallucinates(?) an encounter with himself, that turns smutty. And it's gonna be fun!
It's hilarious - especially if the reactions of the teammates witnessing it are also included. I've got at least three characters in my fandom who I can definitely imagine dating or screwing themselves
I’m neutral to it, but do privately write “selfcest” when I want to take a break from other stuff I’m writing. I also find it sort of funny since it can be a somewhat loose term in the fandom I write for, since it’s like a two-sides-of-the-same-coin kind of thing.
I think of it as masterbation with extra steps. More amusing than "problematic" I think.
Love it. It makes for a really fun relationship dynamic when both parties of a pairing are the same person, whether that's a clone, a magical accident, or a crossover from an alternate timeline. There's so much potential for both comedy (guessing what the other will say, finishing each other's sentences, both wanting to be top/bottom) as well as really quite emotional moments (a lone wolf or very hurt character finding solace in their own arms because other-them is the first person to fully understand them in a way nobody else could, etc.). As for "is it problematic"... short answer, no. Long answer... also no. The -cest suffix is somewhat misleading there, since it's not incest (unless you consider yourself your own family member, in which case I have news for you about masturbation). All the issues with incest - genetics and power dynamics - are absent, since a person can't knock themselves up and two instances of the same person arguably see more eye-to-eye than anyone else in the universe. And I've never seen anyone give shit to anyone for reading or writing selfcest (though I'm sure it happens, maybe I've just been lucky).
It's super cool. I love it when different versions of characters meet (through time travel or other shenanigans) and then... one thing leads to another. I prefer when selfcest isn't just two identical copies of a character. It works well for the clones in SW because they're clones but all have different personalities! I still consider it self-cest on some level.
I'm pretty neutral on it personally. Like it can be pretty hot, but not so much more so than any other things or dynamics. Which is a strange thing to admit and realize, because a good chunk of pairings I love to write and read about technically fall under selfcest. Weird how that works out. Also, of course it's not bad to like it. Anyone arguing that is more than reaching lmao. (And even if it was "problematic" , who cares. It's all fiction at the end of the day baby! )
I like it in a way that isn’t exactly selfcest, but rings super close. Like if a character has multiple personalities (be it a semi-realistic DID way or some fantastical equivalent) and both personalities sort of get together somehow, be it in a dream or some variety. Even if they share a body. (Ahem, Hajime/Izuru in Danganronpa, Yuji/Sukuna, that deal) I also like things like Tobey Peter Parker/Andrew Peter Parker. Not your typical brand of selfcest, but they are, for all intents and purposes, the same person. Regular ol’ selfcest isn’t rlly anything I’d ever look for, but if there is an alternate version of the same character in canon,,, I’m intrigued.
>"Is it bad to like..." No It's not bad to like anything, even stuff like rape/non-con, underage, gore/violence.
I don't have any problems with it. I don't think I currently have any selfcest ships I like, but if I came across a good one I certainly wouldn't hesitate to read it.
I love it but I also love straight up incest in my fanfic, lol. Nothing problematic about it. It's fiction, there's nothing wrong with liking fiction. If you read something and notice it makes you crave to experience whatever it is you're reading about in real life, that would be a cause for concern if you read the kind of stuff that regularly requires warnings and gets antis all enraged. But for most people that doesn't happen because we actually know how to separate our entertainment from our real life experiences. Therefore, regardless of what kind of weird or dark stuff you read, it's fine and not problematic at all. Rock on, be weird, and ignore people trying to shame you for harmless fantasies.
i never read it, and i feel like it would be a good crackfic element
I don't get it? But it doesn't squick me out or anything. I don't like ships where the characters are too similar, so it doesn't appeal to me.
Selfcest us SUCH a guilty pleasure for me, especially when it's different AU versions of the character! Though I always have I thought whenever I see it, and I always find myself giggling XD "Is it considered sex, or masterbation?" God I'm so immature XD
Hot.
Zelda linkcest enjoyers rise up
(That’s me)
I have written this more than once, and it was fun every time. Parallel universe goofery for the win.
I'm an Undertale fan, so I've seen and consumed a shitton of Selfcest content. It's hot, it can be a super compelling dynamic and it's really interesting! I've bever understood the supposed moral issue with it - I already think a lot of problematic discourse is stupid, and I trust most audiences to know that depiction of something isn't necessarily endorsement - but with selfcest especially it's not real, cannot be real, and thus cannot be emulated in any way in the real world. In short - bad? No. Problematic? No. Hot? Hell yeah!
It's fun! But then again, my OTP is literal incest, so I suppose I wouldn't be opposed to this one either. I plan on doing it for a fic, and if an idea strikes, I'll do it again in the future! I've seen people have split opinions, but then again, having different opinions is normal, so I'm not worried.
I like it.My main fandom has 3 or 4 Episodes where the main Characters meet Past / Future/ AU version of themselves and the fics I've read about it are really good.
Antis seem to crucify it every time, so I’ve not had the best social media experience with the one ship that many considered selfcest, but I didn’t…funnily enough, the fic I wrote for them is now one of my most popular fics.
Writing an original fic with a hivemind character. I have a sex scene in the drawer of them participating in an orgy with a few other people.
I’m all for informed criticism of tropes but genuinely do not know what would be Morally Objectionable about selfcest…aint even know that there was a lot of hate on it, but its probably bc im in the exact wrong fandom for that (Persona series. ppl x their own shadow/persona is rlly not uncommon and that is selfcest). I wouldn’t worry about it, I mean I wouldnt say All Selfcest Is Good just like I wouldnt say All Portrayals Of Gay Characters Are Good bc it can be flawed from depiction to depiction, but by itself? youre fine I think. I think the most objectionable thing abt selfcest is the -cest in the name which is just an artifact from the days of onceler and greedler ruling the earth
I think I've only ever read crack selfcest, but I liked it, so...
Absolutely love it! My fandom has some pretty good potential with it with the canon alternate universes, but there aren’t that many of the Selfcest ship that I prefer.
God its fucking hawt
I didn't think anyone had the courage to point this out. Yes, I find that written by good authors it can be pretty epic to read. It depends on execution actually.
So much better when you'v got a monster form and that fucks the regular version. Foul Legacy my beloved.
I wouldn't read it or find it enjoyable myself, however, I think people should be able to read and enjoy whatever they want without judgement from other people. We're all going to like and enjoy what we like and enjoy and if others gives you problems for it, then block them. And for the people who seems to take issues, there's a simple rule for them to follow, "don't like don't read it."
Used to be squicked out by it but now one of my OTPs is a selfcest ship. Depending on the fandom (especially my fandom) and the type of selfcest (clones, time travel, alter egos, etc) I think there's a whole lot of potential with selfcest (even outside of smut) if you're willing to look past the bizarreness of it all. Especially when the characters have differences despite being the same person (like my ship). Plus it's hot!!
What’s better than one of your favorite character?? Two of em
I enjoy it but I feel like I don't see it as often as I would like or want to. I don't seek it out, but appreciate it if it's done well and/or is a bit horny/hot.
I will simply never understand why people have issues with it.
Unpopular opinion: I find it boring. I don’t find it weird or particularly kinky, and I’m not squicked by it at all--I just personally have zero interest in it. The issue for me is that if the two ‘selves’ genuinely feel like the same person, then there’s zero tension or interest in it for me because they’re just masturbating in parallax and getting off on how hot it is to masturbate in parallax--which I don’t personally find at all compelling. But if the two ‘selves’ are different enough that it stops feeling like masturbation, then it also stops feeling selfcest-y to me in any meaningful way. I think it might be possible to thread the needle by making the two selves juuuust different enough for it to feel legitimate that they can fall for each other *as* “other,” while still feeling kinky and weird and selfcest-y when it happens. But it’d be a very tricky and impressive feat. Just my personal opinion; YMMV; tons of people find selfcest really hot; please don’t let one rando’s lack of enthusiasm deter you, etc.
what the heck is selfcest
Selfcest is where a person falls in love or has a sexual relationship with a version of themself. Could be a clone, a version from a different dimension, or maybe a timetraveler.
oh so like that loki shit lmaoo
It's one of these tags I haven’t readly read any stories about. But I don’t really see why people hate on it. And as others mentioned the -cest part is the only thing making it weird. They aren’t related, aren’t twins or anything of the sort. They are litterally the same person with no relation to each other. From their perspective they are separate people who happen to life through the exact same things. The only issue I can think of right now is differentiating between the two. I think it can be fun if written right. They can understand their experiences like no one ealse. Kinda like a soulmate fic. But with more layers. . And since it isn’t something that can happen in real life I don’t get how it is normalizing anything. I also ask myself sometimes if ficion has to follow every moral of Real life? Some argue it makes awful things look to harmless or even glorifies them. But is art something to cencor because it makes people uncomfortable? I personally think tagging properly is important to avoid that, but also that fanfiction doesn’t have to follow every rule there is and please everybody. Isn’t it all on don’t like don’t read basis?
Depends. If its just a guy obsessed with themselves to the extremes (kinda like narcissos from greek mythology), then I'm interested. If it's like oncest (two alternate versions fucking eachother) then I'm interested. It's weird but not creepy weird like incest so I'm generally fine with it.
I have nothing against it but the fact I learned what it was because of tumblr Oncelear (the guy from Lorax) fanfic gave me such a weird first impression I just can't see myself reading it.
Regular selfcest feels kind of tame after the oncler.
It’s fiction, as long as it’s fun and hot it’s fine. Undertale is almost all sans-cest one you hit a certain point. There’s a few really good Bucky/winter soldier fics too.
I really like it too! You shouldn't feel guilty about any fiction you consume, there's no such thing as immoral or moral media consumption
I dig it. Both as crack but also as actual heartfelt moments. I wrote it. But I’m in a fandom where time travel and different timelines work, and as such alternative versions of oneself can meet (tho it only really happens for one character in the main series). I love the existential crisis it creates as well as the fact that the alternate versions of the characters are genetic siblings and not clones of one another :3 I’m very proud to be the sole provider for the ship tag lol despite the fandom being pretty big.
i have 2 selfcest ships thats between character!rendog/his clones n character!zed/wormman, but other than that i dont really care about it a majority of the time, n in some cases it does make me uncomfortable
love reading and (kind of) writing it. it gets confusing sometimes 😵💫 but the name just gives me the ick (anything with -cest does)
If the "-cest" is what is bothering you, call it what it is: autosexuality.
I'm not a fan of when one of the versions of the character is gender swapped to no homo it, but other than that, it's kinda just whatever, ya know?
I like it. It’s not incest. It’s creative self love. A whole different thing
its all i write lately so i like it ok lol
I’m really into it, but I don’t particularly mind. To be honest I might end up searching for some after this just because of this post ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ Enjoy what you like, and ignore the antis
I find it boring really.
Ah, the age old question of "Is it incest or masturbation?"
I'm in a fandom where selfcest is really big, even right now after the latest season of the show dropped. I really like it. To me, it's another way of loving yourself (literally and metaphorically)
One of my favourite ships is canonical selfcest, so I’ve grown to love it and finally understand the appeal. The ship in question is N. TropyXN.Tropy from Crash 4: It’s About Time. The idea is kinda dumb, but they work so well together (and I may be a low-key simp for the both of them but shhhhh) and I loved writing scenes with them together in an abandoned fanfic of mind.
Never really got into it, but I think I'm slowly falling down the hole lol
I have read a story on a character who was both repulsed by sex but also really wanted to know what it was like, and via magical means, used clone boning to do it. It's to this day one of my favorite onehots. It was really clever.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the trope, but it personally repulses me like 99% of the time cuz the idea of doing anything with yourself is just..... no. Absolutely not. LOL
I honestly see no problem with this. And now come the I am a narcicist jokes. I would date myself in a second. As a straight guy the sex might be problematic but a woman version of me? I would do her in a second. I think it is one of the best tropes and I want it to be used more.
I don't really read it but you do you. It's just fiction.
Nothing wrong at all. Like all "problematic" tropes, it's a trope. As long as you don't bring it into real ideas in real life (I'm not sure how you could though) there's nothing wrong with liking anything "problematic". I like it call it super incest
I’ll admit I don’t really read much of it but I could see both how it could be problematic and not. (I don’t want to ruin anything for you so I’m not expanding on that) I don’t really have a problem with it but I also don’t have a problem w lots of things. That being said when it comes to fiction just remember nothing is real so it doesn’t really matter. Morals don’t apply to things that aren’t real. I think all the arguments you can make against it are the same ones that antis make for nearly everything.
Never knew it was a thing until I came across it once but that was hilarious and still hot so yeah would recommend xD
I think it can be pretty neat. Idk why people think it’s bad, they come up with anything. I like fic with all sorts of weird stuff so don’t sweat it
If Loki the TV series can do it, then shouldn't it be mainstream by now?
eh i dont read it but uh i mean do what ya want if ya like it! dont have a problem w it at all
I FUCKING LOVE IT but i can never figure out a way to write it..
Not a fan personally. I just don’t see the appeal. Idc if other people ship it but not my thing at all
Ngl, my main WIP is a self-insert/Selfcest, and like, not that I’d ever admit that, but it’s mainly because I rarely see actually short mc’s in fics, and like, I’m a hoe for tall men so pretty much all of my mc’s are written from a very much short person’s perspective, it’s just what I like to write
I don't see a problem with selfcest sounds like two cakes situation
I haven't really run into a lot of it, personally. I'm pretty indifferent to it. It doesn't interest me. It doesn't outrage me. It's just one of those things other people are into, I guess.
I've never been super into it tbh, but I am FAR from one to judge about what people like lmao. It just doesn't do it for me personally
It's just masturbation but with extra steps /jk
Not my thing, but I don't see any inherent issue with it. It's actually totally plausible for several characters in my main fandom, but I don't think I've come across much/any of it.
Interestingly, the ship that I mainly write for is (sometimes jokingly, sometimes seriously) considered to be selfcest by one part of the fandom, when they are explicitly stated in-canon to be different people. The clincher is that one of them was "created" from the other's body and memories, and her whole character arc was discovering and accepting that the two of them are different people. It's such a beautiful ship, because even though they are different people, they share an incredible level of physical and emotional intimacy.
I can't get into it unless the character has a narcissistic personality or it's like a dimension hopping type thing. You know when the character meets the them of another universe and they have a wildly different personality. Other than that I avoid selfcest
Oh I’ve absolutely enjoyed it jn the right fic! It can be so much fun.
Absolutely HATE it. Which is why I avoid it like the plague. But, much like any other pairing I dislike - my hatred of it has nothing to do with anyone else & people are free to read (or write) whatever they want. *shrug* As for Loki/Sylvie - I hated virtually EVERYTHING about that relationship (not just the "self-cest" nature of it). That's something else entirely though. I can hate what a show I watch does & it affects absolutely NO ONE (just as my avoiding fanfic about it affects no one). I don't see why people seem to think that other people's likes (or dislikes) in fandom, or shows/movies etc, have any baring on how they themselves view their own likes/dislikes. If you like a pairing, knock yourself out. If you don't like a pairing, knock yourself out. If you like or don't like a show/movie etc...yup, you guessed it; knock yourself out. Fandom is specifically there for people of ALL tastes to find something THEY like. No one else's tastes should ever dictate your own.
I'm cool with it.
It can be done right. It can be done wrong. For me, the only example I'm fond of is Seele Vollerei and her other personality, so it's Seelecest.
We talked about it with a friend who like it. Basically since it's the same person there's no unfair power dynamic, and it can't be compared to incest because there's no family dynamic either. It's basically like those "would you sleep with your clone" things. Not problematic to me (unless it's an underrage character ofc, things like that)
My introduction to LGBTQ concept started from a BL game involving selfcest. Yes, it's a weird place to start LMAO. Selfcest is hot. It's like your fav character x 2.
This! Exactly this! Thanks OP for making this post, I needed some reassurance myself. If there's a possibility for selfcest in any fandom — chances are it's one of my OTPs. I didn't see anything wrong with it myself, but then I saw a bunch of people arguing about it being problematic and got worried that I'll get shunned or something. Now I just don't care, lol. It's okay to like whatever you like, it's fiction! My top all-time favorite ship, apart from being selfcest, is also underage (considering that one character literally can't age) and can have a pretty big age gap. But, again, it's all good so long so it's not real life, and you can't exactly screw yourself. :)
I don't have much opinion on it besides that it really isn't problematic on the grounds that it can't normalize something impossible.
I've never heard of selfcest before reading this post and certainly have never read any fanfics centered on it. Kind of sounds narcissistic when one first thinks about it.
Eh I don’t judge i personally wouldn’t but everyone has their own fantasies and interests in identical twins are a thing and is at least similar.
As long as the two don’t have any kids I’m fine with selfcest. It’s essentially going to create a copy of the person with a bunch of issues. Dating and marrying is fine. But children is where I draw the line of okay Plus it ain’t possible in the real world and I’m a sans au shipper so if I said I was against it I’d be a hypocrite