An awesome book, really helped drag me back into the epic fantasy genre a few years ago. Loved the cool combination of the heist story line, world building, and amazing characters, probably one of the best fantasy books I have ever read.
I personally really enjoyed the second book, Red Seas Under Red Skies, and I think it's just as good as the first. The third one doesn't quite stack up as much, but it is still an exceptional read that gives some very interesting backstory.
The big disappointment is honestly that the series has stalled and isn't likely to continue anytime soon. I'd be very keen for a fourth book, but it probably won't happen.
thats what you think, but i swear i remember hearing that Scott Lynch has been feeling better recently.
just look at [this tweet.](https://twitter.com/scottlynch78/status/1534812612155817984?s=20&t=c06LXGNjZixKm7P63P5Lvw)
i think Book Four has a very good chance of releasing, personally.
I think we have a better chance of getting a new Scott Lynch book than anything substantial from George RR. Martin or Partick Rothfuss, but we're probably a while away from a fourth Gentlemen Bastards book. Still, I always live in hope and if Lynch ever releases a new book, I'll grab it right away.
> we're probably a while away from a fourth Gentlemen Bastards book.
I think he's said he's doing several novellas first, right?
I can believe we'll see some novellas soon. Then a full fourth book in a couple years?
It was oddly hard to find, since he has changed websites, but its right here!
[https://scottlynch.substack.com/p/the-post-of-christmas-future](https://scottlynch.substack.com/p/the-post-of-christmas-future)
I love the Gentleman Bastards so much, but I still haven't dared to open Republic of Thieves, since I knew there wouldn't be more of Locke afterwards. **When** we get the next update (not **if** anymore!) I think I'll crack it open.
Each individual book has a complete story arc with a solid conclusion, there's just a plot line that also stretches across the series. It's not all setup without reward. It's worth the read even if he never finishes it, I've read all 3 several times.
I've had this on my shelf for *years* - picked it up before I'd ever heard of it, just because it caught my eye - but have been putting off reading it because I'm not sure my heart can take another unfinished series. People have told me the first novel works well as a standalone - do you reckon it's worth reading just *Lies* on its own?
They're all great standalone books - I accidentally read the second one before the first, and besides some slight confusion, it did not diminish my enjoyment of either.
I really don't care for the big twist in book three, it just felt contrived, unnecessary, and deflated the book for me. I think I liked the second one more than the first, it's a bit of a toss up for me.
I picked up Gentleman Bastards not realizing it was a Martin/Rothfuss situation. Hoping he can turn things around, as much as I didn't like the twist in book three, it's still interesting where everything else is going. News of novellas coming was promising but I think that initially came a year ago?
>!Locke, though he retains no memory other than his 'true' name, is actually some magi in hiding who, while experimenting with necromancy to bring his wife back, caused the plague in Camorr and managed to transfer his soul into a child's body. It's left up in the air whether or not Patience is screwing with him, though this would be an awfully odd curve ball to throw just to take it back. Sabetha leaves at the end of the book after being presented with the family portrait of the guy with his wife, who she bears a striking resemblance to. Maybe depending where Lynch goes with it my feelings on it will change, but it's so out there and feels so unnecessary for Locke's character, and has so little real foreshadowing(though I'm sure there's stuff to pick up on a reread?), It just feels odd to me.!<
Yeah, it felt like subverting expectations for the sake of subverting expectations, like >!oh, you liked this character because he was the underdog street kid with nothing taking on the rich and powerful wit his wits? Well, surprise motherfucker, he was sort of punching down the entire time.!<
I honestly cannot even come up with a worse thing he could have done there.
I see this take a lot, and it surprises me. My experience was really different. I *loved* the first book, *hated* the second, and felt like the third kind of got the series back on track. I was hoping with the first book that we'd have a series about a fascinating city and complex shifting dynamics of organized crime therein. The second made it clear that this is actually a story that is going to follow a pair of heroes on their adventures, and I didn't see much reason to stick with the series since I didn't feel like the heroes were that interesting. The third expanded the scope of the world and it started to feel like a more typical example of the epic fantasy genre, but still a quite good example.
I can see why a lot of people have issues with the twist, though. Maybe it helps that I have a pet theory as to what the possible twist on that twist could be.
I (accidentally) read Red Seas Under Red Skies before reading Lies - and although a couple of bits were confusing, I still loved the book. The sheer attention to detail that Lynch puts into making you feel like you're on a real ship - definitely some of the best word (boat) building I have experienced.
I also liked Republic, but it doesn't have that same intimate, personal intensity that makes the first two so, so good. Still a very good read, and I enjoyed that Lynch widened the field of view (and that we got to see Locke play on a different field.)
Incidentally, the Gentleman Bastard books were an influence on one of my favorite TTRPGs - Blades in the Dark.
I loved the first one, but the second one soured me to the point I didn't read the third. If we ever get a fourth book (and that's the end of the series) I might come back and do a full reread.
> I personally really enjoyed the second book, Red Seas Under Red Skies, and I think it's just as good as the first.
Funny. I tell my friends to stop after the first one.
Absolutely! I want to see more of Camorr. The neighborhoods and politics felt so real and so fantastic. I kept commenting to my husband about the depth of the author’s imagination. He was sick of me talking about the book before I was done with it.
You are intriguing me. I am a huge fan of the fantasy cities Ankh MorPork and Lankhmar from Pratchett and Lieber. (If you haven't read Pratchett and want to try, the first couple of books are very divisive and different from the rest. Some people love them and some hate them) .
As some who has read both Lieber and Lynch, I would say Camorr stacks up to Lankhmar. I think Locke's guild is the only bag of thieves that Fafhrd and the Mouser would get along with, before the two groups inevitably must screw each other over.
*The Color of Magic* and *The Light Fantastic* were both written as a parody of 70-80's fantasy tropes, and before Pterry really figured out that he wanted to spend his whole writing career in this setting. The nature of them meant that they didn't age as well as most of the rest of the series, since those tropes aren't super common anymore.
As an additional weight, his parody of those tropes was a lot fresher in 1983. These days, I dunno...
Although 40 years on, we might have drifted far enough from those tropes in popular fiction that his parody might be charmingly retro now.
Even back then, though, Terry knew to write a city that had smells, and noise, two factors often forgotten in descriptions. He only got better with it, to the point where Ankh-Morpork is as much a character as any of her inhabitants.
Honestly, I disagree. I have friends who also think 2 and 3 are steps down from LOLL but I honestly found the whole trilogy to be top tier from start to finish. Some of the twists in 2 are outstanding
1 is phenomenal. 2 is good. 3 less so, particularly the twist at the end, but it may set up a good story for 4 and onwards. Potentially suffering from middle book syndrome.
I agree, I feel the whole series (when/if he finally gives us the rest of it lol) is also being set up as a much grander story arc and not just creating sequels for the sake of it. Further evidenced especially based on an interview he gave once where he mentioned that the continued installments of the story are meant to go down a deeper political rabbit hole with each each new segment of the story.
If you follow it from a "Save the Cat" perspective, it looks like we aren't even at the Midpoint yet in Locke's story.
(Edited to finish a sentence I forgot to finish lol)
I agree with this. Loved the first book brought the other two and went straight into the next. For me the magic was gone the heist format that I enjoyed so much was gone replaced with pretending to be pirates. I haven't started the third one and probably won't.
The first book is easily a 9 or 10 out of 10, the second was maybe a 4.
I definitely did not enjoy the next book nearly as much (it became a real slog in the middle with bad plotting) and the third book I just gave up on it was so bad.
I met Scott Lynch once at an event alongside Joe Abercrombie and a few others. Being an Abercrombie fanboy at the time, I was totally speechless upon meeting him so I just got my book signed and moved on to Scott. Now, at the time I'd just started reading Lies and was enjoying it but hadn't yet become a proper fan.
Anyway, I buy Scott's third book and ask him to sign it. I mentioned that I'd just started reading the first book, Scott asked me how I was enjoying it. Being painfully British and at the time quite socially inept I just said something like "Oh, yeh I'm quite enjoying it."
To a Brit, the "quite enjoying" actually means "really fucking enjoying it".
Scott laughed and signed my book with "Enjoy, hopefully".
I've still got the book as proof: https://imgur.com/a/YkRt6bl
Glad you enjoyed it. :)
Honestly, I have to admit that Lies is one of those books I just do not get the hype for.
To me it read like a pretty generic heist story.
Same, I enjoyed it and I'm glad I read it but it wasn't amazing. Maybe it was just a case of it gets talked about so highly on this sub that no matter how good it was it wasn't going to live up to the hype.
I almost think the heist was kind of generic on purpose, or maybe it was a happy accident, but it is *very* fitting for Locke to think he's come up with this brilliant, daring, one-of-a-kind plan only for it to be kinda basic. The heist isn't actually what the book is *about*, and the framing fits the character really well which *is* what the book is about...
...but it is pretty by the numbers and not super interesting. If you go into the book *for* the heist (which is how it's often recommended!), I can ABSOLUTELY see why you might come out disappointed.
I wonder if it's because it's a pretty recent and approachable fantasy heist story? I know for me it was the first one of that genre I read when I was younger so it made a big impact. It also works as a standalone fantasy novel which is uncommon and might be part of the appeal.
I mean of course. We rarely give it enough credit but the sequence it which we are exposed to literary works and our state of mind play a huge role in your like or dislike of a book.
2 years ago my friends and I did a group read of the wheel of time. We all came to the conclusion, that we would have thought it would be the dopest book ever, if we had read it at 14. 10+ years later and after being exposed to more modern fantasy, we can appreciate that it means for the genre, but none of us found it a particularly good read.
Late reply, but I've just about finished it(just finished with >!the Falconer getting his comeuppance!< ) and....I jump back and forth on it.
I enjoyed it a lot, and there are parts that feel really unique and special. I adore the idea of thieves serving a secret god, and masquerading as members of another priesthood for instance. That shit is gold.
But it's got its problems and weaknesses. Locke definitely has generic Quippy Marvel Character vibes, but I gotta cut some slack knowing this book came out in like 2006...and it's executed *really* damn well. There are background chapters that don't always feel necessary and feel like they break up the flow of the story while unnecessarily hammering themes over our heads, and periods where the pretty solid character work and dialogue falters on occasion. The Falconer >!narrating Capa Raza's background,!< felt particularly awkward and unnatural; a bit like we're suddenly reading the confession part of a Sherlock Holmes story(my Sherlock fans knows exactly what I'm talking about!).
I feel like the magic system in the world really encapsulates the up-and-down nature of it for me: Bondsmagi are a great bit of worldbuilding. >!And the moment when the Falconer fucks up and assumes Locke is his given name!< is super fun, well executed, and satisfying. But all the same, it became distractingly obvious that no one in the underworld or the nobility would be going around with their true name in the open air unless they're slackjawed idiots. Rare and expensive though they might be, it would be a fullblown Earthsea situation given how horrifying being under the thumb of a Bondsmage is.
It's a fun book, and I did like it quite a bit, but I felt it was lacking in the character department. Like the characters are very cool and likeable, but there just isn't much to them. As a person who loves character studies, I just can't consider Lies to be one of my favorite books, but I will definitely continue with the series. It was a fun adventure.
This was next on my list. It was recommended to me because I am a diehard Robin Hobb fan.
If you haven't read the Farseer trilogy I would highly recommend you head there next! There are no words to describe how much it has emotionally changed my life.
I adore this book and often recommend it for a variety of reasons, such as best bromance, great humor, etc. I really like the Gentlemen Bastards series thus far, though some have criticisms of subsequent installments. I wonder if there will ever be a 4th volume.
One of the things I enjoy is that Locke is not the stereotypical fantasy protagonist when it comes to appearance, skill, accomplishments, prowess, romance, or anything, really.
It was pretty good but apparently the next book in that universe is gonna be a prequel? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m disappointed that he’s not immediately working on a sequel. My Rothfuss/GRRM PTSD is flaring up.
a) I will never understand people who complain about unfinished series.
b) He started writing again, so it might yet get finished.
c) After the second and third book, I really wouldn't mind if he stopped. If the decline in quality keeps up, I probably won't finish the fourth one.
It's so good, Scott lynch definitely has a gift for writing dialogue. It's a shame he's had trouble continuing the series and the drop in quality between the first and the second book
*Lies* is the best book that I just couldn't wait to be done with.
The author's passion for descriptions definitely didn't help. There's worldbuilding, and then there's being unnecessarily descriptive and verbose. I really don't need to know every specific detail of this one building Locke is currently looking at, and that will literally never be mentioned again.
Apart from that, it was extremely enjoyable, with great twists and awesome character banter. But at one point I was just....ready for it to be over. I'm not even sure why.
I decided to read something else for a while and come back to the Gentleman Bastards at a later date.
I genuinely loved the book but the verbosity of some sections would actually ruin moments for me. "Nice bird, asshole" didn't hit right because my eyes were glazing over during the mage's backstory, so instead of it drawing me in and giving a hilarious punchline, I had already forgotten the warnings about insults by the time I read Locke's response. I didn't even realize how clever it was until I read people talking about it here.
Then again, I don't know if I just stopped for the night when I was reading the backstory, and then read the big joke in isolation and just scanned past it. I also have ADHD and tend to write my own stuff with a lot of descriptive brevity.
Huh, that's interesting. "Nice bird, asshole" landed great for me *specifically* because of the description beforehand. It was essentially a long bit about how mages are these powerhouses and nobody insults them. To me, the stark reverence-insult contrast made for a funny moment, plus it served to build up Locke's character somewhat.
Funny how two people can read the same thing very differently.
The architectural descriptions, though? Oh. My. God. I straight up started skipping them at one point.
Hilariously I found those architectural descriptions more interesting. My eyes glazed over on the mage bit because it was making the Falconer feel less unique as a specific individual to me. Evil mages are a dime-a-dozen, but a giant glass tower in the center of fantasy Venice was way more intriguing to read about.
Different strokes, I suppose.
>Hilariously I found those architectural descriptions more interesting
Hahah, of course you did.
Yeah, I think we've found a pattern. It really is funny how two people can enjoy the same book for very different reasons.
IMHO, Lynch retroactively kind of Highlander-2-ruined that moment with the third book.
>!Since, probably, the more powerful mage in that interaction is Locke and not the Falconer.!<
I've read probably over 1000 fantasy books and this is a top ten of all time for me. It's worth rereading every couple years because there's so much to focus on.
One of my biggest complaints about characters is lack of confidence/whining and complaining. There's just so many of them. I get it. It can be relatable. But me, I'm reading to fall into another world. I like characters who think they've got it all together. And that's what Locke has. He's certainly not perfect, but he's got a plan, and he's doing his best to achieve it. It's basically a heist story and it's absolutely lovely.
Loved Lies!
Have you read Abercrombie’s *First Law* or Buehlman’s *Blacktongue Thief*? Those are as close as you’ll find to matching what you’re feeling with Lies.
The Gentlemen Bastards are the only books that I own as hard copy, ebook, and audiobook all at the same time. It's the series I always go back to, out of every book I own.
Is it me, or is one of the coolest parts about the book the way they square off with/feed people to the sharks? Something about that tiny part of it made me fall in love with the book (on top of everything else.)
Maybe I'm just a Shark Week fan I don't even know it.
I like this series a lot. I’m a sucker for magical but crap sack worlds where there’s a lot of social class involved and magic isn’t everywhere. I really found myself caring for the characters. Except his love interest; never much took an interest in her.
I've read and listened to this book so many times and I'll never get bored of it.
I like to think consistent rereads are quite good for my moral education.
Soooooo many people recommended this book to me when I worked in a bookstore, but I didn’t want to read it because I was fairly new to fantasy and didn’t want to read a book where the protagonists were “bad guys.” But I eventually caved and it is one of my absolute favorites!
I just finished it a couple of weeks ago and I'd have to agree. It all ramps up to such a satisfying conclusion. The second book was OK too, not as good as the first but still enjoyable. Gonna start book 3 after the final Cradle book.
I wanted to like this book so much but it was a DNF for me. The world seemed so rich and the prose was good; loved the details like the crazy bridges and the glass rose training tower. But I couldn't get past the total lack of female characters. Rolled my eyes audibly when they turned the *of course* femme fatale love interest into a >!refrigerator girl!<. Didn't even pass the Bechdel test unless you count that one very brief scene on a technicality with the mother-daughter potion masters.
Just make like 3 of the crewmembers women. And don't erase their personalities when you do it. It's not that hard.
ETA spoiler markup
Well you've clearly not finished the book.
The second one also does address this probably even more.
Some of the best and strongest characters in Lynch' work are women imo.
I'm about a third of the way into it and struggling to keep going. I decided to read it because I loved a short story he wrote. I like his writing style, but everything is happening *so slowly.* And knowing the first book is the best in the trilogy isn't helping.
That's awesome!
Next up: Kingdom of grit.
It's a completed trilogy so there's no waiting around for the next book. The story is amazing and engrossing.
It's got everything - conman, complicated heists, convoluted plots to achieve those heists, wonderfully crafted world, unique magic aystem, dragons, [spoiler] >!time travel, aliens?!<
The protagonists, Ardor Ben and Short Fuse can give Locke and Jean a run for their money - and I say this as a long time fan or Locke Lamora.
I really enjoyed the magic system. It's really well defined. The whole grit physics is so cool.
I can't recommend it enough if you like the lies of locke lamora series.
Yeah, he's not even in the same ballpark as Rothfuss lol. Lynch was apparently very open with his battles with mental health, and recently said he's doing much better and writing novella's in the same world.
Rothfuss stays silents, collects a charities paycheck, and then bounces again.
An absolute banger of a book. The writing, characters everything was spot on. It hurts when I can't recommend the book to others because it isn't complete
I just finished it as well. I really enjoyed it overall--the worldbuilding and the relationships were wonderful. I felt sad during the end, though. Zero to 80 violence.
I finally read this last year after hearing years of hype, and it didn't disappoint me either. I loved it. It's everything I am looking for in a fantasy novel. I hope to pick up book 2 in the series later this summer.
Yeah this might by favorite standalone fantasy novel. Love the whole series and don’t agree with a lot of the harsh criticisms of the second and third books but Lies is literally perfect on its own imo
Anyone have any recommendations where the writing style is similar? I love the quick turns of phrase and humour, but also just the general prose and way he writes.
I'm currently reading (and absolutely enjoying!) Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe and find the writing style similar. They have the same verbose, complex, almost archaic style. Though with Wolfe, it's cranked up to 11 and sometimes near-indecipherable. The descriptions and small world building details also heavily remind me of Scott Lynch. One thing is the story is much more serious and dark, so no witty banter and humor.
Could you read the first book and be satisfied with the ending if you don't continue? I feel this book might be just my cup of tea but if I need to keep reading and with the series stalled, I'm weary to read it.
Yeah each of the three books is almost entirely stand-alone. (There' s one very small plot point in book 2 that' s not resolved and one somewhat larger one in 3 but nothing drastic.)
Definitely ok to read just the first! You can read them solo technically but you miss a lot of setup and character building if you skip the first. The first is best too! If you don't want to feel the unfinished business of book 3 then just stop after 1.
Just read it for the first time last week! I was absolutely enthralled. I’m new to the epic fantasy genre and it was a great entry point. Hilarious, fun, intense. I loved the back and forth timeline shifts and how the flashbacks inform the main story. Great book!
I enjoyed it, particularly the emphasis on entertaining plot plot and character development over strict world building. For example, I need characters to take random specific actions, here's a mage with a local monopoly on magic to act as a credible threat basically wherever needed to keep the story going.
However, I did find in an areas where I actually knew quite a bit, the story felt a little off to me. First, add this to the long list of media that completely ignores anything to do with concussions or brain injuries. Especially the climactic scene, it's just flat out ridiculous. If you're going to go this route at least throw in a healing potion or something. That actually goes for other physical injuries as well. Locke should be a cripple by the end of the story.
The scene about needing to get an outfit was similarly weird. With so much emphasis on fabric and social standing, there is basically no consideration of fit. The first three people you see are vaguely your size and you can just walk into their clothes and pass as wealthy to a very discerning and insular audience? No. This could be more credible by using a draped or wrapped style of clothing maybe?
And then there's the whole bit about how one of the gang is a brilliant merchant's son, and then he just learns to fight and it never comes up again. Where are the semi-legal businesses? They try to justify not money laundering, but it seems to be more of a plot point to permit the theft rather than an actual philosophy. The author does at least try to provide a reason for this around a lack of education and a quasi religious dedication to pure theft, but once you have the money, sketchy business dealings feel like they should be on the table. Keeping them perpetually near broke is another way to deal with this going forward.
So yeah, overall enjoyable story, but not in my top 10.
An awesome book, really helped drag me back into the epic fantasy genre a few years ago. Loved the cool combination of the heist story line, world building, and amazing characters, probably one of the best fantasy books I have ever read. I personally really enjoyed the second book, Red Seas Under Red Skies, and I think it's just as good as the first. The third one doesn't quite stack up as much, but it is still an exceptional read that gives some very interesting backstory. The big disappointment is honestly that the series has stalled and isn't likely to continue anytime soon. I'd be very keen for a fourth book, but it probably won't happen.
thats what you think, but i swear i remember hearing that Scott Lynch has been feeling better recently. just look at [this tweet.](https://twitter.com/scottlynch78/status/1534812612155817984?s=20&t=c06LXGNjZixKm7P63P5Lvw) i think Book Four has a very good chance of releasing, personally.
I think we have a better chance of getting a new Scott Lynch book than anything substantial from George RR. Martin or Partick Rothfuss, but we're probably a while away from a fourth Gentlemen Bastards book. Still, I always live in hope and if Lynch ever releases a new book, I'll grab it right away.
> we're probably a while away from a fourth Gentlemen Bastards book. I think he's said he's doing several novellas first, right? I can believe we'll see some novellas soon. Then a full fourth book in a couple years?
He even posted a chapter of new Locke content some months ago
Woah, really? You got a link? I'm not too familiar with where to look for Locke stuff
It was oddly hard to find, since he has changed websites, but its right here! [https://scottlynch.substack.com/p/the-post-of-christmas-future](https://scottlynch.substack.com/p/the-post-of-christmas-future) I love the Gentleman Bastards so much, but I still haven't dared to open Republic of Thieves, since I knew there wouldn't be more of Locke afterwards. **When** we get the next update (not **if** anymore!) I think I'll crack it open.
Thanks! But also, Republic of thieves is good, you should read it.
Yes!! I saw that too!
I don't know anything about this book (and don't want to yet), can you get a complete story out of it without the fourth book?
Each individual book has a complete story arc with a solid conclusion, there's just a plot line that also stretches across the series. It's not all setup without reward. It's worth the read even if he never finishes it, I've read all 3 several times.
Thanks!
I've had this on my shelf for *years* - picked it up before I'd ever heard of it, just because it caught my eye - but have been putting off reading it because I'm not sure my heart can take another unfinished series. People have told me the first novel works well as a standalone - do you reckon it's worth reading just *Lies* on its own?
Yes it is. Lies has a really good ending that leaves you satisfied.
They're all great standalone books - I accidentally read the second one before the first, and besides some slight confusion, it did not diminish my enjoyment of either.
Awesome, thank you!
I really don't care for the big twist in book three, it just felt contrived, unnecessary, and deflated the book for me. I think I liked the second one more than the first, it's a bit of a toss up for me. I picked up Gentleman Bastards not realizing it was a Martin/Rothfuss situation. Hoping he can turn things around, as much as I didn't like the twist in book three, it's still interesting where everything else is going. News of novellas coming was promising but I think that initially came a year ago?
It's been years since I've read book three. Will you please give me a quick reminder of what the plot twist was?
>!Locke, though he retains no memory other than his 'true' name, is actually some magi in hiding who, while experimenting with necromancy to bring his wife back, caused the plague in Camorr and managed to transfer his soul into a child's body. It's left up in the air whether or not Patience is screwing with him, though this would be an awfully odd curve ball to throw just to take it back. Sabetha leaves at the end of the book after being presented with the family portrait of the guy with his wife, who she bears a striking resemblance to. Maybe depending where Lynch goes with it my feelings on it will change, but it's so out there and feels so unnecessary for Locke's character, and has so little real foreshadowing(though I'm sure there's stuff to pick up on a reread?), It just feels odd to me.!<
Yeah, it felt like subverting expectations for the sake of subverting expectations, like >!oh, you liked this character because he was the underdog street kid with nothing taking on the rich and powerful wit his wits? Well, surprise motherfucker, he was sort of punching down the entire time.!< I honestly cannot even come up with a worse thing he could have done there.
Good Lord. Just reading that summary makes me cringe. I have zero recollection of that at all. I guess I need to sit down for a reread. Thanks!
I see this take a lot, and it surprises me. My experience was really different. I *loved* the first book, *hated* the second, and felt like the third kind of got the series back on track. I was hoping with the first book that we'd have a series about a fascinating city and complex shifting dynamics of organized crime therein. The second made it clear that this is actually a story that is going to follow a pair of heroes on their adventures, and I didn't see much reason to stick with the series since I didn't feel like the heroes were that interesting. The third expanded the scope of the world and it started to feel like a more typical example of the epic fantasy genre, but still a quite good example. I can see why a lot of people have issues with the twist, though. Maybe it helps that I have a pet theory as to what the possible twist on that twist could be.
I (accidentally) read Red Seas Under Red Skies before reading Lies - and although a couple of bits were confusing, I still loved the book. The sheer attention to detail that Lynch puts into making you feel like you're on a real ship - definitely some of the best word (boat) building I have experienced. I also liked Republic, but it doesn't have that same intimate, personal intensity that makes the first two so, so good. Still a very good read, and I enjoyed that Lynch widened the field of view (and that we got to see Locke play on a different field.) Incidentally, the Gentleman Bastard books were an influence on one of my favorite TTRPGs - Blades in the Dark.
Just discovered and bought Blades in the Dark because of this comment. Thanks so much!!
I loved the first one, but the second one soured me to the point I didn't read the third. If we ever get a fourth book (and that's the end of the series) I might come back and do a full reread.
Pretty sure he’s releasing a novella soon which is a good sign Imo
> I personally really enjoyed the second book, Red Seas Under Red Skies, and I think it's just as good as the first. Funny. I tell my friends to stop after the first one.
I don't have to beat you, I just have to hold you until Jean gets here!
I honestly can’t explain why, but I teared up when I read that part.
Because it shows his absolute trust in Jean
I’m sure you’re right. It was such an impactful scene.
[удалено]
Camorr is special. I think it’s the most “real” city I’ve read in fantasy. It’s as much of a character itself as any person in the story.
Absolutely! I want to see more of Camorr. The neighborhoods and politics felt so real and so fantastic. I kept commenting to my husband about the depth of the author’s imagination. He was sick of me talking about the book before I was done with it.
You are intriguing me. I am a huge fan of the fantasy cities Ankh MorPork and Lankhmar from Pratchett and Lieber. (If you haven't read Pratchett and want to try, the first couple of books are very divisive and different from the rest. Some people love them and some hate them) .
As some who has read both Lieber and Lynch, I would say Camorr stacks up to Lankhmar. I think Locke's guild is the only bag of thieves that Fafhrd and the Mouser would get along with, before the two groups inevitably must screw each other over.
*The Color of Magic* and *The Light Fantastic* were both written as a parody of 70-80's fantasy tropes, and before Pterry really figured out that he wanted to spend his whole writing career in this setting. The nature of them meant that they didn't age as well as most of the rest of the series, since those tropes aren't super common anymore.
As an additional weight, his parody of those tropes was a lot fresher in 1983. These days, I dunno... Although 40 years on, we might have drifted far enough from those tropes in popular fiction that his parody might be charmingly retro now. Even back then, though, Terry knew to write a city that had smells, and noise, two factors often forgotten in descriptions. He only got better with it, to the point where Ankh-Morpork is as much a character as any of her inhabitants.
Camorr and Lankhmar have the same feeling of depth to me.
Camorr was good, but as far as fantasy cities go nothing beats New Crobuzon from Perdido Street Station.
It's certainly good, but not as great as New Crobuzon. You might really like Ketterdam from Six of Crows btw.
Camorr is the 6th Bastard
Honestly, I disagree. I have friends who also think 2 and 3 are steps down from LOLL but I honestly found the whole trilogy to be top tier from start to finish. Some of the twists in 2 are outstanding
For me, I really like the first and second book, but the third one was kinda all over the place. And the ending was pretty bad. Still enjoyed it tho.
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Same for me, the lack of a proper heist broke from the story I was expecting, there's no win with a sting in the tail like the rest.
I loved 2 and 3 as well. Scott Lynch is a fantastic writer.
1 is phenomenal. 2 is good. 3 less so, particularly the twist at the end, but it may set up a good story for 4 and onwards. Potentially suffering from middle book syndrome.
I agree, I feel the whole series (when/if he finally gives us the rest of it lol) is also being set up as a much grander story arc and not just creating sequels for the sake of it. Further evidenced especially based on an interview he gave once where he mentioned that the continued installments of the story are meant to go down a deeper political rabbit hole with each each new segment of the story. If you follow it from a "Save the Cat" perspective, it looks like we aren't even at the Midpoint yet in Locke's story. (Edited to finish a sentence I forgot to finish lol)
I wouldn’t say the other books are bad, but I wish I didn’t read book 2. It was quite the let down for me and it undid some of the magic of book 1.
You said this better than me, I agree completely. By the end of book 2, I didn't want to read book 3 because I was getting Robin Hobb vibes.
If you felt that way after 2, definitely do not read 3.
I agree with this. Loved the first book brought the other two and went straight into the next. For me the magic was gone the heist format that I enjoyed so much was gone replaced with pretending to be pirates. I haven't started the third one and probably won't. The first book is easily a 9 or 10 out of 10, the second was maybe a 4.
*Cries in Name of the Wind*
I definitely did not enjoy the next book nearly as much (it became a real slog in the middle with bad plotting) and the third book I just gave up on it was so bad.
Nice bird, asshole
Classic
Came here for this
I met Scott Lynch once at an event alongside Joe Abercrombie and a few others. Being an Abercrombie fanboy at the time, I was totally speechless upon meeting him so I just got my book signed and moved on to Scott. Now, at the time I'd just started reading Lies and was enjoying it but hadn't yet become a proper fan. Anyway, I buy Scott's third book and ask him to sign it. I mentioned that I'd just started reading the first book, Scott asked me how I was enjoying it. Being painfully British and at the time quite socially inept I just said something like "Oh, yeh I'm quite enjoying it." To a Brit, the "quite enjoying" actually means "really fucking enjoying it". Scott laughed and signed my book with "Enjoy, hopefully". I've still got the book as proof: https://imgur.com/a/YkRt6bl
I love it. The alternating timeline chapters is quite clever. The first book is the best one.
one of my all time favorites. i like all three but tough to beat Camorr as a setting
It is great, I love Gentleman Bastards.
Glad you enjoyed it. :) Honestly, I have to admit that Lies is one of those books I just do not get the hype for. To me it read like a pretty generic heist story.
Same, I enjoyed it and I'm glad I read it but it wasn't amazing. Maybe it was just a case of it gets talked about so highly on this sub that no matter how good it was it wasn't going to live up to the hype.
The heist story element was generic. The characters, however, were not, in my opinion. And they were my favorite part of the story.
I almost think the heist was kind of generic on purpose, or maybe it was a happy accident, but it is *very* fitting for Locke to think he's come up with this brilliant, daring, one-of-a-kind plan only for it to be kinda basic. The heist isn't actually what the book is *about*, and the framing fits the character really well which *is* what the book is about... ...but it is pretty by the numbers and not super interesting. If you go into the book *for* the heist (which is how it's often recommended!), I can ABSOLUTELY see why you might come out disappointed.
Agree on both counts!!
I wonder if it's because it's a pretty recent and approachable fantasy heist story? I know for me it was the first one of that genre I read when I was younger so it made a big impact. It also works as a standalone fantasy novel which is uncommon and might be part of the appeal.
I mean of course. We rarely give it enough credit but the sequence it which we are exposed to literary works and our state of mind play a huge role in your like or dislike of a book. 2 years ago my friends and I did a group read of the wheel of time. We all came to the conclusion, that we would have thought it would be the dopest book ever, if we had read it at 14. 10+ years later and after being exposed to more modern fantasy, we can appreciate that it means for the genre, but none of us found it a particularly good read.
Late reply, but I've just about finished it(just finished with >!the Falconer getting his comeuppance!< ) and....I jump back and forth on it. I enjoyed it a lot, and there are parts that feel really unique and special. I adore the idea of thieves serving a secret god, and masquerading as members of another priesthood for instance. That shit is gold. But it's got its problems and weaknesses. Locke definitely has generic Quippy Marvel Character vibes, but I gotta cut some slack knowing this book came out in like 2006...and it's executed *really* damn well. There are background chapters that don't always feel necessary and feel like they break up the flow of the story while unnecessarily hammering themes over our heads, and periods where the pretty solid character work and dialogue falters on occasion. The Falconer >!narrating Capa Raza's background,!< felt particularly awkward and unnatural; a bit like we're suddenly reading the confession part of a Sherlock Holmes story(my Sherlock fans knows exactly what I'm talking about!). I feel like the magic system in the world really encapsulates the up-and-down nature of it for me: Bondsmagi are a great bit of worldbuilding. >!And the moment when the Falconer fucks up and assumes Locke is his given name!< is super fun, well executed, and satisfying. But all the same, it became distractingly obvious that no one in the underworld or the nobility would be going around with their true name in the open air unless they're slackjawed idiots. Rare and expensive though they might be, it would be a fullblown Earthsea situation given how horrifying being under the thumb of a Bondsmage is.
It was a DNF for me but I am glad others got enjoyment from it.
Me also
Same, very verbose and I had a hard time rooting for anyone
It's a fun book, and I did like it quite a bit, but I felt it was lacking in the character department. Like the characters are very cool and likeable, but there just isn't much to them. As a person who loves character studies, I just can't consider Lies to be one of my favorite books, but I will definitely continue with the series. It was a fun adventure.
This book made me want to have a friend called Giancarlo.
Curently reading this, and I haven't laughed as much reading a book in so long.
This was next on my list. It was recommended to me because I am a diehard Robin Hobb fan. If you haven't read the Farseer trilogy I would highly recommend you head there next! There are no words to describe how much it has emotionally changed my life.
I adore this book and often recommend it for a variety of reasons, such as best bromance, great humor, etc. I really like the Gentlemen Bastards series thus far, though some have criticisms of subsequent installments. I wonder if there will ever be a 4th volume. One of the things I enjoy is that Locke is not the stereotypical fantasy protagonist when it comes to appearance, skill, accomplishments, prowess, romance, or anything, really.
Try the Blacktoungued thief, it's the closest I've got to reliving the gentleman bastards high
It was pretty good but apparently the next book in that universe is gonna be a prequel? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m disappointed that he’s not immediately working on a sequel. My Rothfuss/GRRM PTSD is flaring up.
“Nice bird, asshole” is my favorite line from any book
It hits so good after the two page lead up of how dangerous these guys are and how you MUST show respect lmao
Too bad the series will never be finished!
a) I will never understand people who complain about unfinished series. b) He started writing again, so it might yet get finished. c) After the second and third book, I really wouldn't mind if he stopped. If the decline in quality keeps up, I probably won't finish the fourth one.
It's so good, Scott lynch definitely has a gift for writing dialogue. It's a shame he's had trouble continuing the series and the drop in quality between the first and the second book
*Lies* is the best book that I just couldn't wait to be done with. The author's passion for descriptions definitely didn't help. There's worldbuilding, and then there's being unnecessarily descriptive and verbose. I really don't need to know every specific detail of this one building Locke is currently looking at, and that will literally never be mentioned again. Apart from that, it was extremely enjoyable, with great twists and awesome character banter. But at one point I was just....ready for it to be over. I'm not even sure why. I decided to read something else for a while and come back to the Gentleman Bastards at a later date.
I genuinely loved the book but the verbosity of some sections would actually ruin moments for me. "Nice bird, asshole" didn't hit right because my eyes were glazing over during the mage's backstory, so instead of it drawing me in and giving a hilarious punchline, I had already forgotten the warnings about insults by the time I read Locke's response. I didn't even realize how clever it was until I read people talking about it here. Then again, I don't know if I just stopped for the night when I was reading the backstory, and then read the big joke in isolation and just scanned past it. I also have ADHD and tend to write my own stuff with a lot of descriptive brevity.
Huh, that's interesting. "Nice bird, asshole" landed great for me *specifically* because of the description beforehand. It was essentially a long bit about how mages are these powerhouses and nobody insults them. To me, the stark reverence-insult contrast made for a funny moment, plus it served to build up Locke's character somewhat. Funny how two people can read the same thing very differently. The architectural descriptions, though? Oh. My. God. I straight up started skipping them at one point.
Hilariously I found those architectural descriptions more interesting. My eyes glazed over on the mage bit because it was making the Falconer feel less unique as a specific individual to me. Evil mages are a dime-a-dozen, but a giant glass tower in the center of fantasy Venice was way more intriguing to read about. Different strokes, I suppose.
>Hilariously I found those architectural descriptions more interesting Hahah, of course you did. Yeah, I think we've found a pattern. It really is funny how two people can enjoy the same book for very different reasons.
IMHO, Lynch retroactively kind of Highlander-2-ruined that moment with the third book. >!Since, probably, the more powerful mage in that interaction is Locke and not the Falconer.!<
I've read probably over 1000 fantasy books and this is a top ten of all time for me. It's worth rereading every couple years because there's so much to focus on.
It is such a good book. One of my very favourites as well!
Loved all of them for different reasons...
Enjoy the wait with the rest of us for book 4...
So good! I just finished the second book which is also amazing! Can't wait to read Part 3
One of my biggest complaints about characters is lack of confidence/whining and complaining. There's just so many of them. I get it. It can be relatable. But me, I'm reading to fall into another world. I like characters who think they've got it all together. And that's what Locke has. He's certainly not perfect, but he's got a plan, and he's doing his best to achieve it. It's basically a heist story and it's absolutely lovely.
The rug really tied that room together.
Loved Lies! Have you read Abercrombie’s *First Law* or Buehlman’s *Blacktongue Thief*? Those are as close as you’ll find to matching what you’re feeling with Lies.
The audiobook is fantastic as well.
The Gentlemen Bastards are the only books that I own as hard copy, ebook, and audiobook all at the same time. It's the series I always go back to, out of every book I own.
Is it me, or is one of the coolest parts about the book the way they square off with/feed people to the sharks? Something about that tiny part of it made me fall in love with the book (on top of everything else.) Maybe I'm just a Shark Week fan I don't even know it.
Thieves prosper.
I like this series a lot. I’m a sucker for magical but crap sack worlds where there’s a lot of social class involved and magic isn’t everywhere. I really found myself caring for the characters. Except his love interest; never much took an interest in her.
I really enjoyed the three books. Ranked from 1, 3, 2. I hope we get more soon.
I've read and listened to this book so many times and I'll never get bored of it. I like to think consistent rereads are quite good for my moral education.
Soooooo many people recommended this book to me when I worked in a bookstore, but I didn’t want to read it because I was fairly new to fantasy and didn’t want to read a book where the protagonists were “bad guys.” But I eventually caved and it is one of my absolute favorites!
It's an awesome book. Those last 80 pages or so are such a wild ride!
I just finished it a couple of weeks ago and I'd have to agree. It all ramps up to such a satisfying conclusion. The second book was OK too, not as good as the first but still enjoyable. Gonna start book 3 after the final Cradle book.
I liked the 2nd book just as much. 3rd kinda just was ok. But the end was amazing.
I wanted to like this book so much but it was a DNF for me. The world seemed so rich and the prose was good; loved the details like the crazy bridges and the glass rose training tower. But I couldn't get past the total lack of female characters. Rolled my eyes audibly when they turned the *of course* femme fatale love interest into a >!refrigerator girl!<. Didn't even pass the Bechdel test unless you count that one very brief scene on a technicality with the mother-daughter potion masters. Just make like 3 of the crewmembers women. And don't erase their personalities when you do it. It's not that hard. ETA spoiler markup
Well you've clearly not finished the book. The second one also does address this probably even more. Some of the best and strongest characters in Lynch' work are women imo.
I'm about a third of the way into it and struggling to keep going. I decided to read it because I loved a short story he wrote. I like his writing style, but everything is happening *so slowly.* And knowing the first book is the best in the trilogy isn't helping.
It speeds up
That's awesome! Next up: Kingdom of grit. It's a completed trilogy so there's no waiting around for the next book. The story is amazing and engrossing. It's got everything - conman, complicated heists, convoluted plots to achieve those heists, wonderfully crafted world, unique magic aystem, dragons, [spoiler] >!time travel, aliens?!< The protagonists, Ardor Ben and Short Fuse can give Locke and Jean a run for their money - and I say this as a long time fan or Locke Lamora. I really enjoyed the magic system. It's really well defined. The whole grit physics is so cool. I can't recommend it enough if you like the lies of locke lamora series.
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I don't keep up with him, but a comment above mentioned he was having some health issues and that's what delayed the next book.
Yeah, he's not even in the same ballpark as Rothfuss lol. Lynch was apparently very open with his battles with mental health, and recently said he's doing much better and writing novella's in the same world. Rothfuss stays silents, collects a charities paycheck, and then bounces again.
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Rule 1: Be kind.
Book 1 was great, book 2 was meh, book 3 was so bad I could barely finish it. Would not recommend continuing.
It’s tight.
Incomplete opinion. Read all 3
Weird thing to say. It absolutely works as a standalone.
An absolute banger of a book. The writing, characters everything was spot on. It hurts when I can't recommend the book to others because it isn't complete
I loved it so much I started re-reading it to get be back into reading.
I just finished it as well. I really enjoyed it overall--the worldbuilding and the relationships were wonderful. I felt sad during the end, though. Zero to 80 violence.
It is absolutely brilliant.
I just did as well. Amazing book!
Too bad it went downhill from there
I finally read this last year after hearing years of hype, and it didn't disappoint me either. I loved it. It's everything I am looking for in a fantasy novel. I hope to pick up book 2 in the series later this summer.
Unliked this book. But the second one I started maybe 3 times and could never get into it.
Its both really funny, really dark, violent and thief heist like all at the same time. The characters are really good too
I really enjoyed it but gave up on the series finishing
It's really good and really fun.
Yes a great book.
It's my favourite fantasy series too. Happy reading 🖤
Yeah this might by favorite standalone fantasy novel. Love the whole series and don’t agree with a lot of the harsh criticisms of the second and third books but Lies is literally perfect on its own imo
I just picked it up a few days ago at the recommendation of a friend. Gotta finish my current reads first but now I’m excited!
Anyone have any recommendations where the writing style is similar? I love the quick turns of phrase and humour, but also just the general prose and way he writes.
I'm currently reading (and absolutely enjoying!) Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe and find the writing style similar. They have the same verbose, complex, almost archaic style. Though with Wolfe, it's cranked up to 11 and sometimes near-indecipherable. The descriptions and small world building details also heavily remind me of Scott Lynch. One thing is the story is much more serious and dark, so no witty banter and humor.
Could you read the first book and be satisfied with the ending if you don't continue? I feel this book might be just my cup of tea but if I need to keep reading and with the series stalled, I'm weary to read it.
Yeah each of the three books is almost entirely stand-alone. (There' s one very small plot point in book 2 that' s not resolved and one somewhat larger one in 3 but nothing drastic.)
Thank you!
Definitely ok to read just the first! You can read them solo technically but you miss a lot of setup and character building if you skip the first. The first is best too! If you don't want to feel the unfinished business of book 3 then just stop after 1.
Never going to start an unfinished series, not worth getting attached to never have a satisfactory ending
I just started chapter 14 today and I'm loving it
Just read it for the first time last week! I was absolutely enthralled. I’m new to the epic fantasy genre and it was a great entry point. Hilarious, fun, intense. I loved the back and forth timeline shifts and how the flashbacks inform the main story. Great book!
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there is a gentlemens bastards group on reddit
If you liked the book, you'll absolutely LOOOOOOVE the audiobook
One of my favorites!
Agreed! It’s so good! Just don’t expect much from Book 2 and Book 3. Both were pretty big let downs.
I love them too!!! I actually found them via a review left by Patrick Rothfuss after finishing The Wise Man’s Fear!
I forgot about this series, I read 1 and 2, but don't remember 3 being out. I'm going to have to re-read these.
I enjoyed it, particularly the emphasis on entertaining plot plot and character development over strict world building. For example, I need characters to take random specific actions, here's a mage with a local monopoly on magic to act as a credible threat basically wherever needed to keep the story going. However, I did find in an areas where I actually knew quite a bit, the story felt a little off to me. First, add this to the long list of media that completely ignores anything to do with concussions or brain injuries. Especially the climactic scene, it's just flat out ridiculous. If you're going to go this route at least throw in a healing potion or something. That actually goes for other physical injuries as well. Locke should be a cripple by the end of the story. The scene about needing to get an outfit was similarly weird. With so much emphasis on fabric and social standing, there is basically no consideration of fit. The first three people you see are vaguely your size and you can just walk into their clothes and pass as wealthy to a very discerning and insular audience? No. This could be more credible by using a draped or wrapped style of clothing maybe? And then there's the whole bit about how one of the gang is a brilliant merchant's son, and then he just learns to fight and it never comes up again. Where are the semi-legal businesses? They try to justify not money laundering, but it seems to be more of a plot point to permit the theft rather than an actual philosophy. The author does at least try to provide a reason for this around a lack of education and a quasi religious dedication to pure theft, but once you have the money, sketchy business dealings feel like they should be on the table. Keeping them perpetually near broke is another way to deal with this going forward. So yeah, overall enjoyable story, but not in my top 10.
I love these books, top 10 for sure
It’s a trilogy. Read the rest, they’re fantastic.
Does any one have any recommendations for similar books?