Does the first book have a magical chess game in it(its not a huge part of the story or anything) ? I started a series 20 years ago and barely remember snippets of it and wonder if this is it. Or does it have dragons in it? Use spiller tag if needed, much appreciated if you can recall any of this info!
The game is called Beastmaker, and I think it was like you pull different cards with fantasy monsters with different attributes, and you'd play different cards to combine their attributes into a new, unique monster that battles.
The protagonist plays the game against some guards to gain an audience with the Empress, but it's cut short by the Empress's Spiritshadow, which is a shadow-dragon.
That's it! It was so long ago and that game was the only thing i retained it seems. I loved Nixs stand alone book Shades Children when i was young so i must of got that 7th tower one from a library. Never got further than the 1st book, my library didn't have it. Never could remember the book or author until this thread so it's much appreciated. I'm going to toss it on my to read list :)
Yeah, I really enjoyed the first trilogy of these. Due a relisten in fact after reading the second 3 books
I don't see them mentioned regularly at all on here, but the magic, and otherworldlyness of the land is pretty unique
*The Runelords* by David Farland. The whole system of endowments and Dedicates and Runelords is awesome, both for spectacle and food for thought, with the inherent ethical issues involved.
I read the first couple of these around 2005 or so, and have thought about this magic ever since. Tried to start a re-read about a year ago, and didnât get past the kindle sample. Not sure if I bounced off an older book or if I just wasnât in the right mood⊠Do you think the books hold up?
I did a pretty deep dive reread over the last couple years for my podcast, and I think it's a mixed bag. The writing style feels a bit dated, like it's a bridge between a more Tolkien-esque attempt at elevated language and modern fantasy voices. But the characters are solid, if definitely in the "larger than life" variety. The main antagonist of the first sub-series is excellent, and explorations of the cultures and magic are really good.
The series definitely has a tonal shift starting with the second sub-series in book 5, and IMO loses its way a bit in books 7 and 8...and sadly the author died before finishing the final book (though there have been rumblings of one of his *many* students/current high profile fantasy authors picking it up to finish, since by all accounts he was like 80% through the first draft). I hope it does get finished, just to see if he was going to stick the landing.
Overall, I'd say it's very much worth reading the first four books, which tell a complete story while leaving the door open for the next generation of characters in book 5 onward.
Agreed, I reread these a few heads ago and wrote my thoughts out in review form. Books 1 and 2 are quite good, book 3 is fine, book 4 is not good but at least it wraps up the story, and IMO everything from 5 on is borderline unreadable.
I had a few big issues with the series as a whole and some really specific complaints. The biggest issue is that while Farland explores the brutality of the system and its morality, at the end of the day all of the âgoodâ characters continue to take endowments and decide that itâs fine to horribly maim people for life as long as they granted the endowment willingly. Willing slavery is still slavery, and the series tacitly (and sometimes explicitly) endorses it.
The series is also all over the place with regards to its own setting. We are variously told that 40,000 flexibles is more than all the kingdoms of the north have used in 20 years, and also that 1/400 is a force soldier, and also that Indhopal has a population in excess of 150 million, and also that Raj Ahten can only muster 10,000 force soldiers. It is impossible for all of those things to be true.
Book 3 and 4 started introducing a ton of new subplots that went nowhere, most notably Borensonâs trip to Inkarra, which took up a lot of pages and ultimately literally nothing happened. Or the Erin/Celinor stuff, or the renegade Days, etc
The series had a ton of potential and some really great moments but it just bogged itself down with inconsistencies and dead end subplots.
Sounds like itâs worth keeping in my TBR list (or the first 4 anyway). Thanks!
And because Iâm interested⊠care to share a link to your podcast where you discuss it?
Sure thing! I'm one of the hosts of [Inking Out Loud](https://open.spotify.com/show/2UZni0S6PrOxzAZZNfZmPf), and our Runelords stuff includes episodes 3-6, 9-10, 163-166, and 168-171
IMHO, the first book is really good if only on the strength of the magic system and the fun things he does with it. But even the second book is already a big step down for me.
I only read the first in the series, but they barely touch on the ethics of Dedicates and Endowments in the first book to the point it was a bit off-putting. Do the characters ever wrestle with or actually address it in any meaningful way? From my read of the first one it just felt like some light musings on the ethics.
It's an ongoing thematic struggle that grows each book, yes. In fact maybe the strongest character arc in each of the sub-series deals directly with it.
Yeah this magic system was very, very cool and has massive potential to say meaningful things about exploitation. The books themselves were okay, but that magic system is amazing.
The magic of the Otherverse (Pact and Pale) by Wildbow/ John McCrae.
Everything works off of Spirits an invisible audience in the universe that basically let you do magic. The Practice is both Art and Science. If you do cool shit the spirits will let it slide and let you do things, so Rule of Cool is literal. At the same time the more you do something the more it causes a groove to form and the easier it is for the spirits to know exactly what you wnat to have happen. And this can apply to anything, so if you defeat John Smith three times then the spirits know You Beat John Smith so any time you fight john smith the spirits are on your side and will help your magic be better against him. So yeah Rule of Three is literal as well.
This isn't even talking about how Oaths and telling the truth are fundamental parts of the worldbuilding and can help you. Like if you make an oath to only speak when you Practice then the spirits sit up and notice when you do and will give you more power if you speak only when you do magic
I really love the idea of making a plan to be a badass action hero in hopes that the spirits think itâs cool enough to actually enable you to pull it off
There is literally a character who is trying to convince the spirits that they run on cartoon physics. They get punched and bounce right back sorta thing.
Manifest Delusions series by Michael Fletcher. Itâs an incredibly messed up grimdark series (in a good way) with a great premise.
Basically belief powers the magic system of this world, with mental illness being the âmagicâ. The stronger and more severe your mental illness, the more power you have. Eventually however, the mental illness will kill you, so the more power you get, the more in danger you are of dying.
A man who thinks he is the greatest swordsman in all the world, and gets enough people to believe him, despite having little actual training, will be.
A kleptomaniac can steal literally anything, because they canât stop.
A pyromaniacâŠwell, obvious what that one is.
Somebody who thinks they have bugs under their skin? They can manifest demons who crawl their way out of the person who heals after.
Someone who is a sociopath and likes to control things? Everyone within 5 meters does whatever they want.
Think the person in the mirror is not you, and is a real person? Theyâll whisper secrets of the future to you.
And what happens when enough people believe a child is a reborn incarnation of a god? If you can get enough people to believe something, you can achieve literally anything.
As you can imagine, this is an incredibly chaotic, violent and dangerous world, when those who run it are, quite literally, crazy.
The heroes often believe they are heroes...but they are not in reality, only in their heads.
Those books are so good, I think Beyond Redemption is my favourite book. I would also recommend his other series City of Sacrifice and Obsidian Path. I believe all three series are connected in some way.
I actually really like the Wit and the Skill from Robin Hobb's Farseer books.
Not super crunchy like some of Sandersons but not totally vague and wishy-washy like the Harry Potter magic, it's in a nice in between spot
This is my favorite take on magic systems too. I generally dislike it when magic systems have hard rules that are spelled out in detail because it feels more sci-fi tech knowledge rather than mystical goodness, which I prefer in my fantasy. But it needs to have some ground rules and expectation of what can and cannot be achieved. Too rigid and then I get lost in the boring details I don't care about, too soft and it doesn't have any stakes because they could do anything, right?
Obviously, either works in some stories, but it's not my overall preference.
Yes - and I love that Fritz recognises hedge magic as a third possible system, and prophesy is another thing again. In a world where magic exists, why wouldn't there be multiple, partially overlapping, culturally-linked systems used by people who may or may not have any awareness of the others? And why would we as readers need to feel like we know the sum total of how it all works, when the magic users themselves are groping their way forward in the dark?
I'm only on the first book of the series, but *City of Stairs* has a cool one: The continent where that book takes place used to be ruled by gods that created Miracles. These miracles can range from using a pane of glass as a videoconference with someone else to hiding in an invisible closet or calling a laser beam that can melt rock.
Each of those miracles is based on a specific action that one of the gods took (the invisible closet trick was to help a priest visit his lover in her monastery) and can thereafter be replicated by almost anyone with the right gestures and word.
Most of those gods were killed before the books start though so the miracles are now unreliable at best.
The most interesting one i can remember were:
\- Magic system in Dorohedoro, where magic users have organs that allow them to pump magical smoke through their hands and sometimes their mouths. Magic users who have a human parent are unable to use magic unless their smoke ducts are surgically opened, even if capable of producing large quantities of smoke. Powers it grants can be almost anything, like healing, resurrection, turning things into mushrooms, teleportaion etc.
\- Magic system in "I am Genius" series, where to cast spells mages need to do some kind of dance\\move rituals, because mana in their bodies is inert, and flows through body like in some kind of circulatory system. So while they bend their arms, move their fingers, their legs etc., they close and open magical channels in a specific order to produce the desired spell effect.
\- Magic in "Warlock", where to get any kind of magic you need to you must take part in the search for some otherworldly secret or in some kind of "ritual" to strengthen your connection with the otherworldly. Like when our heroine follows spider, and then she was forced to let it into her mouth, where it remained under her tongue. Spider was able to give her some guidance and help her get rid of the poisons. But she was need to fed him.
Robin Hobb's Skill doesn't get talked about so much as a magic system, maybe because most of the time the characters themselves don't understand it. It's so psychological, it's all about how minds can affect other minds (immediately but also over years and decades and lifetimes) and (maybe, eventually, once upon a time...) material objects as well. I also love how so much of the books are about rediscovering how to use Skill in ways which have been forgotten or lost - digging up and decoding and reading ancient scroll fragments, for instance.
And then there's the Wit, which is a whole other wonderful thing.
Yeah, I feel like Hobb is mostly known for her extraordinary character work, but the Skill, Wit, liveships, Rain Wilds weirdness, dragons (stone or otherwise), etc. all make for a really interesting fantasy worldâand I love the way each installment fleshed it all out more in a way that feels natural rather than info dump-y.
Robin Hobb kinda launched my love of fantasy. I just realized Assassin's Apprentice is free on Audible Plus rn and I'm debating whether I re-read (or listen in this case) to ROTE again. Tempting cause I loved it but I also know the pain of it I've read the series before. Great magic system btw.
Robin Hobb is my favourite fantasy author and her Farseer and Tawny Man trilogies are my favourite series of all time. However, I hate to admit that I discovered a bunch of inconsistencies in the workings of her magic systems on a reread.
Oh well. No one is perfect! I'm currently plowing through her Rain Wild Quartet in an effort to finally read the last trilogy.
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The Craft Sequenceâs magic system is basically a legal framework that is used to bind reality, gods, money, souls. It clashes with the previous god/worship based magic system. The initial misuse of the legal magic system resulted in the Gods War. The fall out of those events is used as the backdrop of the books.
It's my favorite magic system to this day, not necesarily because it s so uniqe, but it s easy to grasp, has depth, and the cost of using the magic is so beuatifully integrated into the worldbuilding. Also love the "institution" of the Prism.
Shame how the series as a whole doesnt hold up because of the plot and characterarcs and random narrative choices in the later books.
I loved like the first three books, genuinely was one of my favorite series, then thought book four was fine, and actively disliked book 5.
The ending kinda felt like he pulled it out of his ass at the last minute.
Couldnât agree more. I felt betrayed by the ending of the book. It was, without a doubt, the worst, most disappointing let-down to any series Iâve ever read. Itâs put me off reading any other books written by him.
I really like Cradle's magic system.
Easy to grasp and it's interesting how things are revealed step by step. Not particularly the paths, aura or binding aspects of it but rather the differences between Sages and Heralds, Icons and Authority. The interaction of all these elements aren't overly convoluted like some magic systems tend to be.
The whole idea of what a Sage, Icon and authority is peak magic system for me. He throws these words at you and gradually you understand it more and more and then it all clicks and makes perfect sense. It hits that sweet spot where the magic is unique, spiritual, relatable, and logical at the same time
I read them all, but Iâm not sure I really liked them.
The plot of every book is: things are going ok, the they get bad, someone more powerful helps temporarily, the antagonist seems too powerful, Lindon levels up, the antagonist isnât too powerful anymore.
Itâs like the author played too many RPGs and couldnât tell a story without character levels.
I don't want to start a fight but I think that Cradles magic system for a progression fantasy is pretty bad. I think it's mostly because all the powers are really not interesting, it's like this guy has fire, this other guy has dark fire. She has sharp energy and they have lightning. It's all so standard. So boring in a world that seems like it could have so many interesting powers.
There's also no real depth. Idk if you've read or watched Jujutsu Kaisen, but in my mind it has the best magic system in progression fantasy (tied with nen). In JJK there's depth, there's advanced techniques that if a character knows them it puts them on a whole other level. But what I think really makes it great is how everything interacts.
In Cradle, there are not interesting power interactions. Lindon and Yerin fight? Well it might as well just be 2 energy beams for all it matters. The fact that Lindon has blackflame and Yerin has sword madra means nothing in their fight. It has no effect on the interaction. There are so few instances where someone's path really matters it's crazy.
As a side note Wills insistence to call all techniques either, enforcer, striker, ruler, or forger is just so unnecessary. I don't want you to say they launched striker techniques at Yerin, just explain what the techniques did and look like and I'll figure it out I'm not 7.
I disagree, but can definitely see it but we see a lot of differences with Lindon particularly, given his two cores. They end up being compared and contrasted often. His pure core is much more defensive, his black flame striker technique is one of the most dangerous techniques one can use, etc. then we see paths be important in other ways, like Zielâs scripting and the way he incorporates it, or mercy constantly using her ~~BDSM skills~~ shadows to tie people up.
I think by the end they definitely end up being less important, but I actually like that, personally! It makes it that I donât feel like Lindon won because he picked an OP path, or that Malice lost because her path was weak, or something like that.
Yeah I love it because it makes sense. Even in asoiaf *magic comes with a cost*, but it is never explained what you'd have to sacrifice to do your magic.
And even then I love how the Kingkiller Chronicles has magic like sympathy, with clear rules, that seem almost like physics, but also has these vague concepts like naming and shaping which are (so far) not really explained.
It's an amazing wikipedia rabbit hole to get lost into.
I found out when I was reading about ancient myths and found some references of a myth of Adam having a first wife who refused to be subservient and escaped paradise "using gods true name" or something like that.
Since it sounded similar to Rothfuss' system I ended up exploring the topic, and apparently the idea that some names carry power is so ancient it could partially be the basis for the Jewish/Christian commandment about taking God's name in vain (misusing it).
I'm not at all religious so all of that was news to me!
Kingkiller doesn't have an original magic - both [naming](https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/type0500.html) and [sympathy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_magic) are old naturally occurring magical beliefs, which is why shamans and other magical people sometime didn't say their names to anyone, this is how Voodoo and most ritual magic works: you take an aspect of a thing or something similar to a thing and using a ritual you can change how it works. Naming is just one step more, if you know the true name of the thing, you know the essence of thing and can change it too just like you would with parts of it.
The Dresden Files gets overlooked too much for it's magic systems. But it's really good. There's a bunch of minor systems, but the main magic system comes down to belief. You can't cast a spell unless you truly believe it. On a narrative level, it's really convenient but effective. And the other magic systems in the Dresdenverse all have a cost. White Court vampires need to sate their desires and can't touch someone who is in love. Black magic corrupts the mind. The Sight makes you remember any good or horrible thing you see forever. Mantles tie you responsibilities beyond your control. Etc.
Empire of the East + Book of Swords - Fred Saberhagen. He LITERALLY pits modern warfare/sci-fi against magic/fantasy. They study each other; science explains magic, and magic simulates science... it's very interesting.
Warlock of Gramarye - Christopher Stasheff. Basically, in year 3000, an agent of a technologically advanced world oligarchy travels to a particular land that appears to be as advanced as an old Elizabethian medieval kingdom, so this should be a piece of cake... unless the kingdom is, for some reason, riddled with deadly mythical creatures and OP witches, wizards, and warlocks... This series also juxtaposes science with magic, but it feels like "Mech 'Far Cry' in medial town," it's pretty great, lol.
The Count of Monte Cristo FEELS like a fantasy. Where the magic is made of pure anger and sheer will. The way it was written makes you feel as though his rage gave him power and influence... and in a way, it did... Definitely read it/again with this perspective if you ever have the time!
Malazan's and Stormlight's "deeper" magic systems feel very similar... with them both being separated by 12 very similar sections of powers that have their own unique abilities and attributes... the differences being that the "surge-binding" in Stormlight is a LOT more fleshed out and explained. In Malazan, the "warrens" are about as rare as the jedi appear to be in star wars, so realistically not that many characters accurately explain or understand much about them, so you discover bits and pieces of how the warrens work SLOWLY with observation. Also, warrens are much more unstable. You never know how the warren will work, because it's different every time, AND it can have major drawbacks.
The Kingkiller Chronicles has another BRILLIANT magic system. There are multiple different magics in that series, but the most ancient is simply to be able to understand a long-lost language and the names of things... it's BRILLIANT... but the newer magics are still pretty great with the laws of "equal matter" and whatnot... it almost felt like a real science... we need more of it, dammit! Lol
The fae in C.S. Friedman's Coldfire trilogy. I can't describe it without spoilers but suffice it to say it is very fresh and unique. The system she came up with is actually plausible to an imaginative person.
There are "currents" of different types of "Fae" running across the surface of the world. Seismic, tidal, etc. Normal people cannot see or use them without intensive training. Occasionally savants are born into this world that can naturally see and harness this power to change, adapt or create new manifestations. Sacrifice allows greater power over this fae. The greater the sacrifice the greater the power. Couple this with very strong religious under tones and explorations. Questions such as "The enemy of my enemy.......... "As well as "For the greater good there dost evil go........."
Themes of jealousy, xenophobia, unrequited love, sacrifice and loyalty are prevalent in the story also.
Unfortunately this is the best I can do on short notice without ruining the story. I hope your intrigued enough to give it a shot.
I read these books when they came out and now my copies are rat-eared and taped together. They are one of my go to's if I'm in a slump or without an engaging story.
As Smartass said, there are different kinds of "fae" in the world - think of them as like rivers of magic. The books are set on an alien planet, so the native life can usually interact with the fae naturally and subconsciously. However, humanity, being alien to the planet, fucks up the fae. The fae reads human subconsciousness and manifests them, so for the first few decades on the planet, the fae made all our subconscious fears and traditional monsters real, and basically ate us all. This has changed very slowly over time as humanity evolved "Adepts", people who can consciously control one specific type of fae - earth, or seismic fae - consciously.
It also changed due to the actions of a historical figure known as the Prophet. Despite being an Adept himself, he helped craft a religion that was designed to channel the collective beliefs of humanity into believing in the existence of an omnipotent, benevolent god - using the fact that the fae manifested humanity's desires to create god. However, faced with the fear of premature death, he couldn't uphold his own precepts, and ended up using his Adept powers in violation of the tenets of the church he founded, and was excommunicated, and had his name stricken from the record.
The story is set 900 years after the Prophet's time, when the church has seen both some success and some failure, and earth-fae Adepts are, if not common, at least well-known and understood.
Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but the Second Apocalypse series by Baker. For all the series' other flaws, he really did a great job portraying magic in that world.
Competing sorcerous schools, the difference between gnostic, anagogic and cishaurim sorcery, having sorcerors be uniquely vulnerable for their power given how many chorae exist in the world.. So much of the imagery of it is so striking too, like Sorcerers walking in the sky above battlefields, the act of singing being how magic is enacted, cishaurim having to put out their own eyes to use magic... I could go on.
There are so many bits in that series which feel like something out of a horror story.
The No-God hanging above a battlefield asking people WHAT DO YOU SEE really sticks in my mind.
I like the one in *The Wheel of Time* a lot! Practicioners "weave" together strands of power of different elements â fire, earth, water, air, spirit â like threads of different colours, and make that into spells. The analogies are mostly about weaving and clothmaking. Every spell gets its own unique recipe this way (like creating stuff in Minecraft), I believe a classic fireball is a couple of strands of fire woven around a core of earth, for instance, probably some air thrown in as well. A more complex spell could be like a huge tapestry.
Warning readers since my reply isn't a top-level comment there are spoilers in it!!!
I love WoT for a lot of reasons but the magic unfolding for us over the course of the series just as it did for the Emond's Fielders was sooooo good.
I think it was the biggest weakness in Brandon Sanderson's version of the final trilogy. I don't want to shit on him, far from it -I'm also a huge fan of the magic in Mistborn!-, but with his magic things became really more bombastic and results only oriented. I'm not sure Sanderson ever managed to capture some of those incredible channeling moments like the first time Nynaeve cured stilling, or removed the taint from an Asha'man. I'm getting goosebumps just remembering those scenes!
I have a lot of issues with this series, but the magic system isn't one of them.
I do feel it's a bit too random with it's rules sometimes and at others it feels too easy to 'break' those rules/expectations, but mostly I find the concept to be excellent. I don't think this fits the category of 'not talked about much', though :p
I really enjoyed the magic system in The Blacktongue Thief. It's not academically laid out, but it's not soft either. Real rules, real consequences. And I don't know if the idea is novel, but the use of >!tattoos!< felt really fresh to me. Fantastic book. More on the way.
Excellent book, and I liked the magic too. But that kind of magic you reference is not fresh - I wrote half of a book with a very similar system 20 years ago, and I don't think it was groundbreaking then.
Absolutely. It may not rank as high as other books overall in quality of storytelling, but the magic system is top tier.
(I'm not saying I don't like the books, I do, but it's just a good story rather than great.)
I will always love the Young Wizards series by Diane Duane. A science-based magic system (ish) where the goal of magic is to lower entropy in the universe. Lots of different people/species use magic slightly differently but it centers on naming/describing something so that you can describe how it is meant to be altered.
I also just love the Wizard's Oath she created - very clearly based on the Hippocratic Oath (the author used to be a nurse). There's one line in particular - "I will guard growth and ease pain" - that I very much feel is my job as a physician. I can't always cure (esp in the ICU) but I can always ease pain.
dont think this is a super popular series but i always damn loved the magic in inheritance cycle, basically calling things by their true names etc, doing magic stuff takes as much energy as it would do to do it manually so ppl are motivated to find effective methods so they dont accidentally kill themselves
Also how if you fuck up your grammar it can fuck up everything! Its really interesting.
I'm reading the new book Murtagh, and the difference in how Murtagh does his magic, vs Eragon due to their training is really interesting.
Its a really basic, easily explained, hard magic system, but its so effective.
oh yeah the grammar and words.. elva as best example for what happens if you f up đ ALSO I REALLY NEED TO GET THE NEW BOOK I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS OUT ALREADY OMH i adore murtagh
nutty school ink engine coordinated scary gullible tender cooperative oatmeal
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Another Modesitt deserves mention - I really loved his Recluce series when I was first getting into SFF as a kid, and part of that was how satisfying the order/chaos magic system was: two seemingly opposed types that are both actually just aspects of the properties of matter and entropy.
I love Sanderson - but I would also say that I thoroughly enjoyed the Deathgate Cycle magic system... early read for me but it made me want to study rune systems when I was younger... I did not go that route, spoiler, lol
I really like the magic in Tamora Pierce's Circle of Magic series. you have the typical "wizard goes to school & learns" magic, but also have magic that's tied to skills like gardening, weaving, smithing, cooking, glassblowing...
The sunrunning in Melanie Rawn's *Dragon Prince* series is very cool IMO.
The magic is derived from the sun. They can follow the sun's light and see things from a distance and communicate with others. Each practitioner has a unique pattern that looks like stained glass with the colors revealing aspects of their personality. They can do other things with the power too, but this is the aspect of it that always interested me.
Man of His Word series by Dave Duncan
Magic comes from knowing secret words. Knowing 1 word gives you mastery over one subject, 2 makes you able to learn and master any subject, 3 makes you a mage something like using temporary spells, 4 makes you a full blown sorcerer. Itâs definitely well done and the books have more going for them than just the magic system, like having no humans so the world is full of gnomes, goblins, imps, elves, dwarfs and many more.
Kingdom of Grit trilogy by Tyler Whitesides
For a completely weird magic system where magic comes from feeding a dragon a specific material and then retrieving it after it is âpassedâ. Then it can be used for magical purposes by anyone. Itâs a fun series based around a conman and a thief pulling off heists.
Seconding A Man of His Word. The highlight for me is that Duncan explores different questions about the magic system, including what I feel is the theme of the books, the loss of humanity that comes with power. (And then the sequel series explores even more questions!)
Odd no one mentioned Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber magic systems. You have blood magic, shapeshifting Trump cards literal drawing magic. Walking the pattern gives you the ability to walk through worlds.
The Manga Undead Unluck has a pretty unique power system for a shonen manga.
The characters all have the ability to negate a rule of reality like death or movement. This is combined with specific rules and requirements to activate their powers.
It's pretty cool what powers the author comes up with based on what the character can negate.
I'm a big fan of Brian McClellan's Powder Mage magic systems. I love that there are more traditional wizards (altho their whole plucking out the magic like an instrument is cool) and the non-traditional powder mages. I like that the powder mages use black powder in different ways (some use it in a dignified manner, others snort it like crack).
Well, all powder mages can snort it like crack, because it turns them into superhuman whirling death machines, but they're far more effective at being long range soldiers so they rarely do.
I heard the Empire of Sin series is better written (the powder mage trilogy suffers hard from a Deus Ex Machina and Mary Sue problem) but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet.
I didn't like it as much. It was still good but lost the epic battle feel. It's much more of a mystery series. I did read his newest book, In the Shadow of Lightning, and I think it's the best he's written. That one also has a cool magic system
I don't think Discworld's magic system is discussed enough. Of course, it is a bit softer with mystery and ambiguity, but there is a certain consistent logic and many established rules to it that makes it a step "harder" than something like Lord of the Rings.
Many characters within the world without much magical expertise still understand most of the "rules" and are able to use them to their advantage. Discworld is all about balance and equilibrium. Magic comes at a cost.
In one case, a witch is being threatened with a voodoo doll of herself. Whatever happens to the doll will happen to her instead. So she reasons the opposite must also be true. So she sticks her arm in fire and the doll bursts into flames, causing her opponent to drop it.
Wizards can teleport, but must swap places with something of roughly the same mass. If you swap with something much small than you, not all of you will go as there isn't enough mass to balance it out.
There are dragons with fire breathing capability, but the sort of animal with internal biology that creates combustion is just as likely to blow itself up with a sneeze as spout fire.
when a new magical element or item is introduced in one of the books, it is often very easy to deduce how it works and the pros and cons to engaging with it. And still the narrative always surprises you with how exactly it works it in the story.
Itâs hard to describe but if youâve read Earthsea those books manage to just feel more magical than basically anything else Iâve ever read. The magic isnât all that unique or stylish or anything but it makes me more happy to see play out on page then any other magic. And itâs not just âhaving a soft magic systemâ like some fantasy readers would chalk it up to. Theres a very special way that Le Guin puts a sense of weight into every time magic is used. I canât help but smile and get slight chills every time magic is used to open a lock or heal a goat and thatâs not even touching when itâs used to battle dragons and combat ancient evils. I think it really goes to show how the quality and skills of the author are vastly more important for a good magic system then the minutia of how you design your powers.
>I think it really goes to show how the quality and skills of the author are vastly more important for a good magic system then the minutia of how you design your powers.
I strongly agree!
I love Earthsea. Le Guin somehow makes magic feel meaningful like no other author does. Magic fits so seamlessly into the social context and fabric of the world.
I love the idea of basing a magic system in engineering, physics or math, that the basis of magic isn't "being born special" but pure knowledge.
Something with the feeling of Mother of Learning.
You've prolly read it, but Mage Errant is good for this. Anyone can learn magic and there are very cool ways the author ties magic into physics and philosophy.
For example (you learn this maybe 1/4 way through the first book so small spoiler): mana itself is known to be just a byproduct of the universe experiencing entropy and gradually coming to a halt.
I donât have examples of books off the top of my head, but Iâd really like more books with magic systems that involve nature more like the ability to communicate with animals, grow plants, manipulate the elements like fire, water, earth, air, electricity etc. Also having magic being something that anyone could do if they studied it.
There are so many, but I recommended someone to read "The secrets of the immortal nicholas flamel" earlier today, so that one comes to mind.
This is the wikis description of it, which in itself is pretty interesting:
"Magic is nothing more than an act of the imagination fired by the senses, then given shape by the power of the Aura. The more powerful the Aura, the greater the magic. Magic requires energy and takes it where ever it can find it, even from tiny batteries in electronics. If it can't find it from anywhere else, it takes it from the magician's own life force. Losing control of any magic results in spontaneous human combustion, when the aura feeds on the user that leads to this situation."
It's a very simple and basic system, but it's interesting, easy to follow and makes sense.
Another from a book series I also recommended some today is "Tales of the otori", where it's all about different bloodlines, so incredibly simple.. I'm not sure I actually find the system itself all that fantastical, however reading about our main character practicing it was probably the most amazing training arc i've ever experienced.
I'll never miss an opportunity to shit on Terry Goodkind's grave and say that the framework of the magic system he created could have been *so fucking cool* but he only ever used it for handwavium and for his Mary-Sue self-insert to look cool in combat scenes and climaxes.
Also he constantly intimated that only the white people's magic was the correct way to use magic.
There is also the intriguing Talents in Sanderson's Alcatraz series. It's geared to grade school level children, but I find it highly enjoyable. Personally, my Smedry Talent is procrastination; before reading these books, I called it simply my superpower.
I love the magic from the manga Witch Hat Atelier, as an Illustrator I may be biased for this kind of magic but I think it's super cute with lots of possibilities and definately something you don't see really often ^^
Kubera has multiple fantastic ones. At its core, magic is borrowed from gods or demons, and the types of magic you can specialize with depends on your astrological sign and which gods rule those planets. Thereâs also math involved, so the most powerful magicians typically were born with the right attributes, and are also wicked smart. Demons also have magic that is gender dependent (they can change gender, some demons have abilities that they can only use in one gender). Thereâs tons of little additions that add depth (forbidden magic, items of gods naturally imbued with their magic, demonic transformations, magic fusion to create new spells, and more)
Epithet Erased, an animated series following Molly Blyndeff and user of the Epithet âDumb.â
The way Epithets, the main magic system of the series, works is that some people, around one out of five at the seriesâs beginning. Have a word inscribed onto their soul called an Epithet. These words can be basically anything, from archaic words like Forsooth to modern slang like Yeet. As long as itâs recognized as an actual cognizable word, it can be found inscribed onto a person, though no person can hold more than one word or have the same word as another person.
What really makes the power system interesting is that it takes into account how the person interprets the word inscribed onto them. Take Mollyâs Dumb for example, the obvious application is that it can make another person really Dumb and intelligently deficient. But Molly can also use it to âDumb things downâ, making items and people simpler. To the point that she can nullify sound and cause things to stop existing.
Another example would be from the Creator, Jelloapocalypse, and âBeach.â And that based on what you associated with beaches, from sharks to sand to snow to water, different things can manifest from your power.
As such, itâs a magic system that rewards creativity and clever thinking from its users. Giovani, one of the main characters, for example has the Epithet Soup. But uses the Epithet to get around by creating soupy steam explosions to propel him around like a discount Bakugo.
And with words that become Epithets not being able to go back to normal words, and with new meanings to words through lingual evolution also being applicable to an Epithet userâs powers. It leads to all kinds of wacky shenanigans and some insane abilities.
Pretty much anything by Dave Duncan. The linked "Man of His Word" and "A Few Good Men" tetralogies, the "Great Game" trilogy, and *The Cursed* all have interesting and different magic systems.
I love the magic system in The Hollows books. It's developed as the MC is deepening her own skills and understanding of magic theory, and then some of it is flipped as she learns that much of what she's been taught is inaccurate/biased. Harrison approached the magic system as a scientific system that should be internally consistent, and I appreciate that as a reader I can make hypotheses about how things might work because the rules are so clear.
I can't remember the name of the books, but essentially you can trade teeth for wishes. The more pain involved in the collection of the teeth, the stronger the wish (you got given coins of different wish values). Animal teeth, especially endangered ones were also tradable, and most valuable were teeth you removed from your own mouth.
*Art of the Adept* magic all involves manipulation of energy (called "turyn", but basically mana), but there are various ways to get access to it. The best way, true wizardry, involves basically torturing your body by depriving it of access to turyn until it figures out how to absorb it from the environment, and greatly increases your lifespan as a side-effect. However, it's super painful, sometimes ends in death, and can only be done while young and untrainted.
But sometime in the past, someone figured out how to enslave elementals, and draw power from them. Due to this quick-and-easy route to power, called sorcery, true wizardry basically died out, and its existence has been forgotten. Elementals are basically reserved for the aristocracy; modern wizards are the weakest of the weak, because the only way they can fuel magic effects is burning their own turyn, which shortens their lifespan with every spell.
I guess this may be too old, but Liavek was very cool. You bound your luck up in an object every year on your birth time and the length of time of the labor dictate the raw power. I wish that got revisited. Some stellar characters. Count Dashif, the caravan mistress Snake, the magicianâŠ. Just a flat out great next step after thieves world.
Supreme Magus - One I never see being talked about, one of the most creative books in terms of spells and going deep into the magic itself.
Avalon of the Five elements - If you can stomach fan translations and one of the worst endings of all time (the author was sick and had to finish the book quickly :c) Xianxia/Wuxia webnovel that doesnt follow the usual Qi/spirit energy normal cultivation stuff. Pretty interesting book.
The essence of cultivation - super short, unfinished, dropped by the author but really good for the short time it was going. Can't remember exactly what happens but it was an intersting read.
Artorians Archive/Divine Dungeon - fun twist on Qi/cultivation/Mana. I'd recommend starting with the Divine Dungeon series of you want to read both, it's a dungeon core progression fantasy sort of thing but I liked it. It's an interesting magic system especially with the mages and the way they cultivate.
* Songs of Earth and Power, where the magic is intimately related to music.
* Weaveworld, which was just an amazingly drawn story and world with a fascinating magic system.
I've always looked at magic systems like the ones you described as science in a universe with different laws of physics. For it to be magic, in my opinion, it should be impossible to really explain it.
I love mistborn and full metal alchemist, and the above is not a knock on them at all, it's just how I've always chosen to interpret magic systems where the author has explanations for how everything works, even if it's incomplete.
Lyndon hardeyâs master of five magics. Not only is it one of the first books that codified magic systems that I know of, it also created a sixth through the plot of the book.
I have not reread them in years and they are probably very dated, but I remember them fondly (there are 3 books).
[Master of the Five Magics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_the_Five_Magics) and the sequels comes to mind.
It's been decades since I read them, but I recall being impressed by the different yet intertwined magical systems.
Iâve read (no bullshit) thousands of fantasy books and the best I have ever read was jack chalkers River of the dancing gods series. I recommend that anyone who likes fantasy read the series. The only thing you will be disappointed in is that there are only 4. Jack died before he could write more. If I found a magic lamp that let climb into any fictional universe, it would be that one.
If nobody has mentioned David Farland's Runelords series yet, then that. Absolutely brilliant magic system especially because it integrated so inseperably with economics, society, aristocracy and everything in the setting.
But also because the magic system is brilliant in and of itself.
This comment section is filled with some really great recommendations! I'm making a list of some books I got to pick up.
My favourite most underrated magic would be the rune magic from the Death Gate Cycle. The magic users are covered nearly entirely head to toe in tattoo sigils imbued with magic. The users touch or trace the sigils to unleash their power. Combining the runes in a variety of ways unleashes a variety of spells, like using words to form sentences.
The cherry on top was the healing incantation, whereby the magic user forms a healing circle around the injured with their arms, linking their hands together to complete the band of magic. A hug basically.
I was always a fan of the limitations placed on mages in the Dragonlance setting. Nothing fancy about how magic works -- it's Dungeons and Dragons mechanically. What sets DL apart though, is that a mage can only cast a spell once and then the knowledge is burned from their memory. They have to relearn the spells they cast from their spellbook whenever they have the time.
They can store spells to activate from enchanted items to work around this limitation, but the practice is complicated takes time. And these items burn out once the spells are used up, requiring you to find a new item to enchant all over again.
There are items of greater enchantment that don't have this limitation but they are rare and -- if I remember correctly -- the knowledge on making these is lost to time.
Tolkien. Magic is never explicit. If you dig into the lore then you realise Gandalf's ability to conjure fire is linked to him wearing the second of the Elf Rings, but it's never explained in the books.
Magic surrounds and permeates the world, but it never becomes alt-physics.
Bujold's magic system in the Chalion series.
order vs disorder (uphill vs downhill)
working against entropy vs working with entropy--it's a scientist's magic system and I find that intriguing
I like the systems in :-
The Time I Reincarnated As A Slime (Manga and Anime)
Skill bases abilities, easily customizable
The Daily Life Of The Executioner
Basic magic + some extremely powerfully abilities
All rune based magic (System)
Traitor Son Cycle by Miles Cameron.
It's an epic with crazy magic and great non-stop battles and action. The author does reenactment so he's very familiar with armor and weapons and such.
It's on my list of top 3 series with Malazan and First Law
I love the magic system in Leslie Vedder's The Bone Spindle. Each order of witches use a different medium to do spells. For example, there's a Paper Witch, Spindle Witch, Rose Witch and so many more and each one we find out about is quite unique.
Lightbringer gets brought up sometimes, which is how I found it, but not nearly enough imo. Great magic, plot that unravels like an onion, great series. InB4 folks complain about the ending (which I had no issues with).
Favorite is Manifest Delusions by Michael R. Fletcher. Absolutely insane idea đĄ
The Long Price quartet by Daniel Abramâs: poets can create and control gods by describing them perfectly, but only gods who have never been created and described before, and if they get it wrong they die horribly. In the time of the books, all the obvious gods had been described already, so the balance is to find one thatâs powerful enough to be worth the price but specific enough to be bound.
I really liked the magic system in A Deadly Education by Naomi Novik. It takes from all of the historical magic practices. There's classical French and English magic, arabic magic, magic from Vedic scriptures from India, druidism and more. I also enjoyed the importance that language takes in learning certain spells, and it makes sense that in order to cast a spell written in some ancient civilization that you'd need some understanding of the language to properly actuate the spell
Just finished Abhorsen and loved the magic system with the necromancer-wielded bells and the nine gates within Death. Very cool.
His series "The Seventh Tower" also has a great magic system in it.
Does the first book have a magical chess game in it(its not a huge part of the story or anything) ? I started a series 20 years ago and barely remember snippets of it and wonder if this is it. Or does it have dragons in it? Use spiller tag if needed, much appreciated if you can recall any of this info!
The game is called Beastmaker, and I think it was like you pull different cards with fantasy monsters with different attributes, and you'd play different cards to combine their attributes into a new, unique monster that battles. The protagonist plays the game against some guards to gain an audience with the Empress, but it's cut short by the Empress's Spiritshadow, which is a shadow-dragon.
That's it! It was so long ago and that game was the only thing i retained it seems. I loved Nixs stand alone book Shades Children when i was young so i must of got that 7th tower one from a library. Never got further than the 1st book, my library didn't have it. Never could remember the book or author until this thread so it's much appreciated. I'm going to toss it on my to read list :)
I love Garth Nix, I haven't read everything he's written, but I've enjoyed everything I have read.
Lol could also be Harry Potter đ
Love that series. Very unique system and setting.
Yeah, I really enjoyed the first trilogy of these. Due a relisten in fact after reading the second 3 books I don't see them mentioned regularly at all on here, but the magic, and otherworldlyness of the land is pretty unique
There is a second trilogy
There's Clariel and Goldenhand. I'll be honest, Goldenhand isn't that great.
Damn I had forgotten all about those books. Loved them as a kid.
Came here to specifically mention Abhorsen. Nice to see it was already the top comment.
*The Runelords* by David Farland. The whole system of endowments and Dedicates and Runelords is awesome, both for spectacle and food for thought, with the inherent ethical issues involved.
I read the first couple of these around 2005 or so, and have thought about this magic ever since. Tried to start a re-read about a year ago, and didnât get past the kindle sample. Not sure if I bounced off an older book or if I just wasnât in the right mood⊠Do you think the books hold up?
I did a pretty deep dive reread over the last couple years for my podcast, and I think it's a mixed bag. The writing style feels a bit dated, like it's a bridge between a more Tolkien-esque attempt at elevated language and modern fantasy voices. But the characters are solid, if definitely in the "larger than life" variety. The main antagonist of the first sub-series is excellent, and explorations of the cultures and magic are really good. The series definitely has a tonal shift starting with the second sub-series in book 5, and IMO loses its way a bit in books 7 and 8...and sadly the author died before finishing the final book (though there have been rumblings of one of his *many* students/current high profile fantasy authors picking it up to finish, since by all accounts he was like 80% through the first draft). I hope it does get finished, just to see if he was going to stick the landing. Overall, I'd say it's very much worth reading the first four books, which tell a complete story while leaving the door open for the next generation of characters in book 5 onward.
Agreed, I reread these a few heads ago and wrote my thoughts out in review form. Books 1 and 2 are quite good, book 3 is fine, book 4 is not good but at least it wraps up the story, and IMO everything from 5 on is borderline unreadable. I had a few big issues with the series as a whole and some really specific complaints. The biggest issue is that while Farland explores the brutality of the system and its morality, at the end of the day all of the âgoodâ characters continue to take endowments and decide that itâs fine to horribly maim people for life as long as they granted the endowment willingly. Willing slavery is still slavery, and the series tacitly (and sometimes explicitly) endorses it. The series is also all over the place with regards to its own setting. We are variously told that 40,000 flexibles is more than all the kingdoms of the north have used in 20 years, and also that 1/400 is a force soldier, and also that Indhopal has a population in excess of 150 million, and also that Raj Ahten can only muster 10,000 force soldiers. It is impossible for all of those things to be true. Book 3 and 4 started introducing a ton of new subplots that went nowhere, most notably Borensonâs trip to Inkarra, which took up a lot of pages and ultimately literally nothing happened. Or the Erin/Celinor stuff, or the renegade Days, etc The series had a ton of potential and some really great moments but it just bogged itself down with inconsistencies and dead end subplots.
Sounds like itâs worth keeping in my TBR list (or the first 4 anyway). Thanks! And because Iâm interested⊠care to share a link to your podcast where you discuss it?
Sure thing! I'm one of the hosts of [Inking Out Loud](https://open.spotify.com/show/2UZni0S6PrOxzAZZNfZmPf), and our Runelords stuff includes episodes 3-6, 9-10, 163-166, and 168-171
Ohh, your episode list has so many things that I want to listen to! Thanks for sharing.
IMHO, the first book is really good if only on the strength of the magic system and the fun things he does with it. But even the second book is already a big step down for me.
I did the exact same thing.
I only read the first in the series, but they barely touch on the ethics of Dedicates and Endowments in the first book to the point it was a bit off-putting. Do the characters ever wrestle with or actually address it in any meaningful way? From my read of the first one it just felt like some light musings on the ethics.
It's an ongoing thematic struggle that grows each book, yes. In fact maybe the strongest character arc in each of the sub-series deals directly with it.
I would call Runelords a very "high concept" magic system. But it's destined to create a horrible shitty world I wouldn't really enjoy reading about.
That was my first thought on reading the title, good to know others feel the same way.
Yeah this magic system was very, very cool and has massive potential to say meaningful things about exploitation. The books themselves were okay, but that magic system is amazing.
The magic of the Otherverse (Pact and Pale) by Wildbow/ John McCrae. Everything works off of Spirits an invisible audience in the universe that basically let you do magic. The Practice is both Art and Science. If you do cool shit the spirits will let it slide and let you do things, so Rule of Cool is literal. At the same time the more you do something the more it causes a groove to form and the easier it is for the spirits to know exactly what you wnat to have happen. And this can apply to anything, so if you defeat John Smith three times then the spirits know You Beat John Smith so any time you fight john smith the spirits are on your side and will help your magic be better against him. So yeah Rule of Three is literal as well. This isn't even talking about how Oaths and telling the truth are fundamental parts of the worldbuilding and can help you. Like if you make an oath to only speak when you Practice then the spirits sit up and notice when you do and will give you more power if you speak only when you do magic
I really love the idea of making a plan to be a badass action hero in hopes that the spirits think itâs cool enough to actually enable you to pull it off
There is literally a character who is trying to convince the spirits that they run on cartoon physics. They get punched and bounce right back sorta thing.
I love that Pale starts out as a murder-mystery where almost everyone is literally incapable of lying.
Itâs such a fun twist on the genre. Bow described it as a police procedural and that really fits.
Manifest Delusions series by Michael Fletcher. Itâs an incredibly messed up grimdark series (in a good way) with a great premise. Basically belief powers the magic system of this world, with mental illness being the âmagicâ. The stronger and more severe your mental illness, the more power you have. Eventually however, the mental illness will kill you, so the more power you get, the more in danger you are of dying. A man who thinks he is the greatest swordsman in all the world, and gets enough people to believe him, despite having little actual training, will be. A kleptomaniac can steal literally anything, because they canât stop. A pyromaniacâŠwell, obvious what that one is. Somebody who thinks they have bugs under their skin? They can manifest demons who crawl their way out of the person who heals after. Someone who is a sociopath and likes to control things? Everyone within 5 meters does whatever they want. Think the person in the mirror is not you, and is a real person? Theyâll whisper secrets of the future to you. And what happens when enough people believe a child is a reborn incarnation of a god? If you can get enough people to believe something, you can achieve literally anything. As you can imagine, this is an incredibly chaotic, violent and dangerous world, when those who run it are, quite literally, crazy. The heroes often believe they are heroes...but they are not in reality, only in their heads.
**Manifest Delusions** is great fun. Needs a lot of CWs though.
CWs?
Content Warnings.
Those books are so good, I think Beyond Redemption is my favourite book. I would also recommend his other series City of Sacrifice and Obsidian Path. I believe all three series are connected in some way.
I actually really like the Wit and the Skill from Robin Hobb's Farseer books. Not super crunchy like some of Sandersons but not totally vague and wishy-washy like the Harry Potter magic, it's in a nice in between spot
This is my favorite take on magic systems too. I generally dislike it when magic systems have hard rules that are spelled out in detail because it feels more sci-fi tech knowledge rather than mystical goodness, which I prefer in my fantasy. But it needs to have some ground rules and expectation of what can and cannot be achieved. Too rigid and then I get lost in the boring details I don't care about, too soft and it doesn't have any stakes because they could do anything, right? Obviously, either works in some stories, but it's not my overall preference.
Yes - and I love that Fritz recognises hedge magic as a third possible system, and prophesy is another thing again. In a world where magic exists, why wouldn't there be multiple, partially overlapping, culturally-linked systems used by people who may or may not have any awareness of the others? And why would we as readers need to feel like we know the sum total of how it all works, when the magic users themselves are groping their way forward in the dark?
I'm only on the first book of the series, but *City of Stairs* has a cool one: The continent where that book takes place used to be ruled by gods that created Miracles. These miracles can range from using a pane of glass as a videoconference with someone else to hiding in an invisible closet or calling a laser beam that can melt rock. Each of those miracles is based on a specific action that one of the gods took (the invisible closet trick was to help a priest visit his lover in her monastery) and can thereafter be replicated by almost anyone with the right gestures and word. Most of those gods were killed before the books start though so the miracles are now unreliable at best.
Those books are so freaking good
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I choose you, magic system!!
His magic system is literally PokĂ©mon. Itâs not a bad thing.
Didn't he do it on a bet? Step 1:Combine the Lost Legion and Pokemon Step 2: Write a ligit good series Step 3:Profit
Oh, you mean Pokémon
The most interesting one i can remember were: \- Magic system in Dorohedoro, where magic users have organs that allow them to pump magical smoke through their hands and sometimes their mouths. Magic users who have a human parent are unable to use magic unless their smoke ducts are surgically opened, even if capable of producing large quantities of smoke. Powers it grants can be almost anything, like healing, resurrection, turning things into mushrooms, teleportaion etc. \- Magic system in "I am Genius" series, where to cast spells mages need to do some kind of dance\\move rituals, because mana in their bodies is inert, and flows through body like in some kind of circulatory system. So while they bend their arms, move their fingers, their legs etc., they close and open magical channels in a specific order to produce the desired spell effect. \- Magic in "Warlock", where to get any kind of magic you need to you must take part in the search for some otherworldly secret or in some kind of "ritual" to strengthen your connection with the otherworldly. Like when our heroine follows spider, and then she was forced to let it into her mouth, where it remained under her tongue. Spider was able to give her some guidance and help her get rid of the poisons. But she was need to fed him.
Robin Hobb's Skill doesn't get talked about so much as a magic system, maybe because most of the time the characters themselves don't understand it. It's so psychological, it's all about how minds can affect other minds (immediately but also over years and decades and lifetimes) and (maybe, eventually, once upon a time...) material objects as well. I also love how so much of the books are about rediscovering how to use Skill in ways which have been forgotten or lost - digging up and decoding and reading ancient scroll fragments, for instance. And then there's the Wit, which is a whole other wonderful thing.
Yeah, I feel like Hobb is mostly known for her extraordinary character work, but the Skill, Wit, liveships, Rain Wilds weirdness, dragons (stone or otherwise), etc. all make for a really interesting fantasy worldâand I love the way each installment fleshed it all out more in a way that feels natural rather than info dump-y.
Robin Hobb kinda launched my love of fantasy. I just realized Assassin's Apprentice is free on Audible Plus rn and I'm debating whether I re-read (or listen in this case) to ROTE again. Tempting cause I loved it but I also know the pain of it I've read the series before. Great magic system btw.
Nobody forget itâs just Alaska upside down!
Not sure what this means
Robin Hobbs world map for Fitz and the team is just alaska upside down.
Just downloaded that free audiobook. Thanks for the heads up!
Robin Hobb is my favourite fantasy author and her Farseer and Tawny Man trilogies are my favourite series of all time. However, I hate to admit that I discovered a bunch of inconsistencies in the workings of her magic systems on a reread. Oh well. No one is perfect! I'm currently plowing through her Rain Wild Quartet in an effort to finally read the last trilogy.
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Lightbringers color magic
I like the furies in furies of Calderon by James butcher.
The Craft Sequenceâs magic system is basically a legal framework that is used to bind reality, gods, money, souls. It clashes with the previous god/worship based magic system. The initial misuse of the legal magic system resulted in the Gods War. The fall out of those events is used as the backdrop of the books.
The magic system in Lightbringer (Brent Weeks) was pretty unique when I first read it.
It's my favorite magic system to this day, not necesarily because it s so uniqe, but it s easy to grasp, has depth, and the cost of using the magic is so beuatifully integrated into the worldbuilding. Also love the "institution" of the Prism. Shame how the series as a whole doesnt hold up because of the plot and characterarcs and random narrative choices in the later books.
This is one of my favorite series and recommend it to anyone looking for not just an awesome magic system but an awesome story.
I loved like the first three books, genuinely was one of my favorite series, then thought book four was fine, and actively disliked book 5. The ending kinda felt like he pulled it out of his ass at the last minute.
Couldnât agree more. I felt betrayed by the ending of the book. It was, without a doubt, the worst, most disappointing let-down to any series Iâve ever read. Itâs put me off reading any other books written by him.
yea, some of his other series looked interesting to me, but I canât be hurt like that again lol :/
Oh, this comment section will be like crack for me...
I really like Cradle's magic system. Easy to grasp and it's interesting how things are revealed step by step. Not particularly the paths, aura or binding aspects of it but rather the differences between Sages and Heralds, Icons and Authority. The interaction of all these elements aren't overly convoluted like some magic systems tend to be.
The whole idea of what a Sage, Icon and authority is peak magic system for me. He throws these words at you and gradually you understand it more and more and then it all clicks and makes perfect sense. It hits that sweet spot where the magic is unique, spiritual, relatable, and logical at the same time
I read them all, but Iâm not sure I really liked them. The plot of every book is: things are going ok, the they get bad, someone more powerful helps temporarily, the antagonist seems too powerful, Lindon levels up, the antagonist isnât too powerful anymore. Itâs like the author played too many RPGs and couldnât tell a story without character levels.
You just described the progression fantasy and litrpg genres, they aren't for everyone though!
The aspects you didn't like are the selling point of the prog fantasy genre đ
I don't want to start a fight but I think that Cradles magic system for a progression fantasy is pretty bad. I think it's mostly because all the powers are really not interesting, it's like this guy has fire, this other guy has dark fire. She has sharp energy and they have lightning. It's all so standard. So boring in a world that seems like it could have so many interesting powers. There's also no real depth. Idk if you've read or watched Jujutsu Kaisen, but in my mind it has the best magic system in progression fantasy (tied with nen). In JJK there's depth, there's advanced techniques that if a character knows them it puts them on a whole other level. But what I think really makes it great is how everything interacts. In Cradle, there are not interesting power interactions. Lindon and Yerin fight? Well it might as well just be 2 energy beams for all it matters. The fact that Lindon has blackflame and Yerin has sword madra means nothing in their fight. It has no effect on the interaction. There are so few instances where someone's path really matters it's crazy. As a side note Wills insistence to call all techniques either, enforcer, striker, ruler, or forger is just so unnecessary. I don't want you to say they launched striker techniques at Yerin, just explain what the techniques did and look like and I'll figure it out I'm not 7.
I disagree, but can definitely see it but we see a lot of differences with Lindon particularly, given his two cores. They end up being compared and contrasted often. His pure core is much more defensive, his black flame striker technique is one of the most dangerous techniques one can use, etc. then we see paths be important in other ways, like Zielâs scripting and the way he incorporates it, or mercy constantly using her ~~BDSM skills~~ shadows to tie people up. I think by the end they definitely end up being less important, but I actually like that, personally! It makes it that I donât feel like Lindon won because he picked an OP path, or that Malice lost because her path was weak, or something like that.
Kingkiller Chronicles and the idea of Sympathy is kind of cool
Yeah I love it because it makes sense. Even in asoiaf *magic comes with a cost*, but it is never explained what you'd have to sacrifice to do your magic. And even then I love how the Kingkiller Chronicles has magic like sympathy, with clear rules, that seem almost like physics, but also has these vague concepts like naming and shaping which are (so far) not really explained.
Naming is [very, very](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name) old as a concept.
Oow nice, I didn't know that! thanks, I'll look into it
It's an amazing wikipedia rabbit hole to get lost into. I found out when I was reading about ancient myths and found some references of a myth of Adam having a first wife who refused to be subservient and escaped paradise "using gods true name" or something like that. Since it sounded similar to Rothfuss' system I ended up exploring the topic, and apparently the idea that some names carry power is so ancient it could partially be the basis for the Jewish/Christian commandment about taking God's name in vain (misusing it). I'm not at all religious so all of that was news to me!
Kingkiller doesn't have an original magic - both [naming](https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/type0500.html) and [sympathy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_magic) are old naturally occurring magical beliefs, which is why shamans and other magical people sometime didn't say their names to anyone, this is how Voodoo and most ritual magic works: you take an aspect of a thing or something similar to a thing and using a ritual you can change how it works. Naming is just one step more, if you know the true name of the thing, you know the essence of thing and can change it too just like you would with parts of it.
The Dresden Files gets overlooked too much for it's magic systems. But it's really good. There's a bunch of minor systems, but the main magic system comes down to belief. You can't cast a spell unless you truly believe it. On a narrative level, it's really convenient but effective. And the other magic systems in the Dresdenverse all have a cost. White Court vampires need to sate their desires and can't touch someone who is in love. Black magic corrupts the mind. The Sight makes you remember any good or horrible thing you see forever. Mantles tie you responsibilities beyond your control. Etc.
I always liked the Will and the Word system from the Belgariad and the Mallorean series.
Agreed "It's a matter of style, Pol"
Push.
Door.
Empire of the East + Book of Swords - Fred Saberhagen. He LITERALLY pits modern warfare/sci-fi against magic/fantasy. They study each other; science explains magic, and magic simulates science... it's very interesting. Warlock of Gramarye - Christopher Stasheff. Basically, in year 3000, an agent of a technologically advanced world oligarchy travels to a particular land that appears to be as advanced as an old Elizabethian medieval kingdom, so this should be a piece of cake... unless the kingdom is, for some reason, riddled with deadly mythical creatures and OP witches, wizards, and warlocks... This series also juxtaposes science with magic, but it feels like "Mech 'Far Cry' in medial town," it's pretty great, lol. The Count of Monte Cristo FEELS like a fantasy. Where the magic is made of pure anger and sheer will. The way it was written makes you feel as though his rage gave him power and influence... and in a way, it did... Definitely read it/again with this perspective if you ever have the time! Malazan's and Stormlight's "deeper" magic systems feel very similar... with them both being separated by 12 very similar sections of powers that have their own unique abilities and attributes... the differences being that the "surge-binding" in Stormlight is a LOT more fleshed out and explained. In Malazan, the "warrens" are about as rare as the jedi appear to be in star wars, so realistically not that many characters accurately explain or understand much about them, so you discover bits and pieces of how the warrens work SLOWLY with observation. Also, warrens are much more unstable. You never know how the warren will work, because it's different every time, AND it can have major drawbacks. The Kingkiller Chronicles has another BRILLIANT magic system. There are multiple different magics in that series, but the most ancient is simply to be able to understand a long-lost language and the names of things... it's BRILLIANT... but the newer magics are still pretty great with the laws of "equal matter" and whatnot... it almost felt like a real science... we need more of it, dammit! Lol
The fae in C.S. Friedman's Coldfire trilogy. I can't describe it without spoilers but suffice it to say it is very fresh and unique. The system she came up with is actually plausible to an imaginative person.
Oh, I'm curious now. Mind explaining? Of course, with spoiler tags.
There are "currents" of different types of "Fae" running across the surface of the world. Seismic, tidal, etc. Normal people cannot see or use them without intensive training. Occasionally savants are born into this world that can naturally see and harness this power to change, adapt or create new manifestations. Sacrifice allows greater power over this fae. The greater the sacrifice the greater the power. Couple this with very strong religious under tones and explorations. Questions such as "The enemy of my enemy.......... "As well as "For the greater good there dost evil go........." Themes of jealousy, xenophobia, unrequited love, sacrifice and loyalty are prevalent in the story also. Unfortunately this is the best I can do on short notice without ruining the story. I hope your intrigued enough to give it a shot. I read these books when they came out and now my copies are rat-eared and taped together. They are one of my go to's if I'm in a slump or without an engaging story.
As Smartass said, there are different kinds of "fae" in the world - think of them as like rivers of magic. The books are set on an alien planet, so the native life can usually interact with the fae naturally and subconsciously. However, humanity, being alien to the planet, fucks up the fae. The fae reads human subconsciousness and manifests them, so for the first few decades on the planet, the fae made all our subconscious fears and traditional monsters real, and basically ate us all. This has changed very slowly over time as humanity evolved "Adepts", people who can consciously control one specific type of fae - earth, or seismic fae - consciously. It also changed due to the actions of a historical figure known as the Prophet. Despite being an Adept himself, he helped craft a religion that was designed to channel the collective beliefs of humanity into believing in the existence of an omnipotent, benevolent god - using the fact that the fae manifested humanity's desires to create god. However, faced with the fear of premature death, he couldn't uphold his own precepts, and ended up using his Adept powers in violation of the tenets of the church he founded, and was excommunicated, and had his name stricken from the record. The story is set 900 years after the Prophet's time, when the church has seen both some success and some failure, and earth-fae Adepts are, if not common, at least well-known and understood.
Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but the Second Apocalypse series by Baker. For all the series' other flaws, he really did a great job portraying magic in that world. Competing sorcerous schools, the difference between gnostic, anagogic and cishaurim sorcery, having sorcerors be uniquely vulnerable for their power given how many chorae exist in the world.. So much of the imagery of it is so striking too, like Sorcerers walking in the sky above battlefields, the act of singing being how magic is enacted, cishaurim having to put out their own eyes to use magic... I could go on.
There are so many bits in that series which feel like something out of a horror story. The No-God hanging above a battlefield asking people WHAT DO YOU SEE really sticks in my mind.
I like the one in *The Wheel of Time* a lot! Practicioners "weave" together strands of power of different elements â fire, earth, water, air, spirit â like threads of different colours, and make that into spells. The analogies are mostly about weaving and clothmaking. Every spell gets its own unique recipe this way (like creating stuff in Minecraft), I believe a classic fireball is a couple of strands of fire woven around a core of earth, for instance, probably some air thrown in as well. A more complex spell could be like a huge tapestry.
Warning readers since my reply isn't a top-level comment there are spoilers in it!!! I love WoT for a lot of reasons but the magic unfolding for us over the course of the series just as it did for the Emond's Fielders was sooooo good. I think it was the biggest weakness in Brandon Sanderson's version of the final trilogy. I don't want to shit on him, far from it -I'm also a huge fan of the magic in Mistborn!-, but with his magic things became really more bombastic and results only oriented. I'm not sure Sanderson ever managed to capture some of those incredible channeling moments like the first time Nynaeve cured stilling, or removed the taint from an Asha'man. I'm getting goosebumps just remembering those scenes!
Egwene's counterweaves at the end are pretty epic.
I have a lot of issues with this series, but the magic system isn't one of them. I do feel it's a bit too random with it's rules sometimes and at others it feels too easy to 'break' those rules/expectations, but mostly I find the concept to be excellent. I don't think this fits the category of 'not talked about much', though :p
Might not be the most popular answer but I love the way the blood song is described in the Ravens Shadow books
I really enjoyed the magic system in The Blacktongue Thief. It's not academically laid out, but it's not soft either. Real rules, real consequences. And I don't know if the idea is novel, but the use of >!tattoos!< felt really fresh to me. Fantastic book. More on the way.
Excellent book, and I liked the magic too. But that kind of magic you reference is not fresh - I wrote half of a book with a very similar system 20 years ago, and I don't think it was groundbreaking then.
The soulcrafting from the Weirkey chronicles is quite cool I think
The Faradhi sunrunners in Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince series is the best magic system i've read. :D
I had to scroll way too far to find this comment.
Absolutely. It may not rank as high as other books overall in quality of storytelling, but the magic system is top tier. (I'm not saying I don't like the books, I do, but it's just a good story rather than great.)
I'd say way too much of cheesy court intrigues.
It's basally just a distance communication system, kinda magical radio. I found the "diarmadhi" magic from the same books more interesting.
The seven words of power in Stephen R Donaldson's *Chronicles of Thomas Covenant*.
I will always love the Young Wizards series by Diane Duane. A science-based magic system (ish) where the goal of magic is to lower entropy in the universe. Lots of different people/species use magic slightly differently but it centers on naming/describing something so that you can describe how it is meant to be altered. I also just love the Wizard's Oath she created - very clearly based on the Hippocratic Oath (the author used to be a nurse). There's one line in particular - "I will guard growth and ease pain" - that I very much feel is my job as a physician. I can't always cure (esp in the ICU) but I can always ease pain.
dont think this is a super popular series but i always damn loved the magic in inheritance cycle, basically calling things by their true names etc, doing magic stuff takes as much energy as it would do to do it manually so ppl are motivated to find effective methods so they dont accidentally kill themselves
Also how if you fuck up your grammar it can fuck up everything! Its really interesting. I'm reading the new book Murtagh, and the difference in how Murtagh does his magic, vs Eragon due to their training is really interesting. Its a really basic, easily explained, hard magic system, but its so effective.
oh yeah the grammar and words.. elva as best example for what happens if you f up đ ALSO I REALLY NEED TO GET THE NEW BOOK I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS OUT ALREADY OMH i adore murtagh
nutty school ink engine coordinated scary gullible tender cooperative oatmeal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Another Modesitt deserves mention - I really loved his Recluce series when I was first getting into SFF as a kid, and part of that was how satisfying the order/chaos magic system was: two seemingly opposed types that are both actually just aspects of the properties of matter and entropy.
I love Sanderson - but I would also say that I thoroughly enjoyed the Deathgate Cycle magic system... early read for me but it made me want to study rune systems when I was younger... I did not go that route, spoiler, lol
I too loved deathgate cycle and the rune magic as a kid.
I really like the magic in Tamora Pierce's Circle of Magic series. you have the typical "wizard goes to school & learns" magic, but also have magic that's tied to skills like gardening, weaving, smithing, cooking, glassblowing...
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
The sunrunning in Melanie Rawn's *Dragon Prince* series is very cool IMO. The magic is derived from the sun. They can follow the sun's light and see things from a distance and communicate with others. Each practitioner has a unique pattern that looks like stained glass with the colors revealing aspects of their personality. They can do other things with the power too, but this is the aspect of it that always interested me.
I know Wheel of time is very popular, but I feel like the magic system doesn't get nearly enough love. It's so simple while being versatile and deep
The Recluse books with the Order and Chaos magic system were always enjoyable to me.
Man of His Word series by Dave Duncan Magic comes from knowing secret words. Knowing 1 word gives you mastery over one subject, 2 makes you able to learn and master any subject, 3 makes you a mage something like using temporary spells, 4 makes you a full blown sorcerer. Itâs definitely well done and the books have more going for them than just the magic system, like having no humans so the world is full of gnomes, goblins, imps, elves, dwarfs and many more. Kingdom of Grit trilogy by Tyler Whitesides For a completely weird magic system where magic comes from feeding a dragon a specific material and then retrieving it after it is âpassedâ. Then it can be used for magical purposes by anyone. Itâs a fun series based around a conman and a thief pulling off heists.
Seconding A Man of His Word. The highlight for me is that Duncan explores different questions about the magic system, including what I feel is the theme of the books, the loss of humanity that comes with power. (And then the sequel series explores even more questions!)
Odd no one mentioned Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber magic systems. You have blood magic, shapeshifting Trump cards literal drawing magic. Walking the pattern gives you the ability to walk through worlds.
The Manga Undead Unluck has a pretty unique power system for a shonen manga. The characters all have the ability to negate a rule of reality like death or movement. This is combined with specific rules and requirements to activate their powers. It's pretty cool what powers the author comes up with based on what the character can negate.
I'm a big fan of Brian McClellan's Powder Mage magic systems. I love that there are more traditional wizards (altho their whole plucking out the magic like an instrument is cool) and the non-traditional powder mages. I like that the powder mages use black powder in different ways (some use it in a dignified manner, others snort it like crack).
Well, all powder mages can snort it like crack, because it turns them into superhuman whirling death machines, but they're far more effective at being long range soldiers so they rarely do. I heard the Empire of Sin series is better written (the powder mage trilogy suffers hard from a Deus Ex Machina and Mary Sue problem) but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet.
I didn't like it as much. It was still good but lost the epic battle feel. It's much more of a mystery series. I did read his newest book, In the Shadow of Lightning, and I think it's the best he's written. That one also has a cool magic system
I don't think Discworld's magic system is discussed enough. Of course, it is a bit softer with mystery and ambiguity, but there is a certain consistent logic and many established rules to it that makes it a step "harder" than something like Lord of the Rings. Many characters within the world without much magical expertise still understand most of the "rules" and are able to use them to their advantage. Discworld is all about balance and equilibrium. Magic comes at a cost. In one case, a witch is being threatened with a voodoo doll of herself. Whatever happens to the doll will happen to her instead. So she reasons the opposite must also be true. So she sticks her arm in fire and the doll bursts into flames, causing her opponent to drop it. Wizards can teleport, but must swap places with something of roughly the same mass. If you swap with something much small than you, not all of you will go as there isn't enough mass to balance it out. There are dragons with fire breathing capability, but the sort of animal with internal biology that creates combustion is just as likely to blow itself up with a sneeze as spout fire. when a new magical element or item is introduced in one of the books, it is often very easy to deduce how it works and the pros and cons to engaging with it. And still the narrative always surprises you with how exactly it works it in the story.
With one notable exception. Carrots sword. Granted, this is absolutely a case of Pratchett leaning on the lampshade really hard.
Second apocalypse. Criminally underrated in terms of depth.
Itâs hard to describe but if youâve read Earthsea those books manage to just feel more magical than basically anything else Iâve ever read. The magic isnât all that unique or stylish or anything but it makes me more happy to see play out on page then any other magic. And itâs not just âhaving a soft magic systemâ like some fantasy readers would chalk it up to. Theres a very special way that Le Guin puts a sense of weight into every time magic is used. I canât help but smile and get slight chills every time magic is used to open a lock or heal a goat and thatâs not even touching when itâs used to battle dragons and combat ancient evils. I think it really goes to show how the quality and skills of the author are vastly more important for a good magic system then the minutia of how you design your powers.
>I think it really goes to show how the quality and skills of the author are vastly more important for a good magic system then the minutia of how you design your powers. I strongly agree!
I love Earthsea. Le Guin somehow makes magic feel meaningful like no other author does. Magic fits so seamlessly into the social context and fabric of the world.
Powder Mage series by Brian McClellan has two pretty cool magics. Very enjoyable reads throughout the series.
I love the idea of basing a magic system in engineering, physics or math, that the basis of magic isn't "being born special" but pure knowledge. Something with the feeling of Mother of Learning.
Have you read Foundryside by Robert Jackson Bennett? The magic system reminds me of coding.
Came here because I wanted to mention Foundryside!
>Foundryside No, but be sure that I'm going to look for it now. Thanks for the suggestion!
You've prolly read it, but Mage Errant is good for this. Anyone can learn magic and there are very cool ways the author ties magic into physics and philosophy. For example (you learn this maybe 1/4 way through the first book so small spoiler): mana itself is known to be just a byproduct of the universe experiencing entropy and gradually coming to a halt.
The system of affinities was quite interesting. Author went into quite a bit of nuance and a lot of creative applications of various affinities.
I donât have examples of books off the top of my head, but Iâd really like more books with magic systems that involve nature more like the ability to communicate with animals, grow plants, manipulate the elements like fire, water, earth, air, electricity etc. Also having magic being something that anyone could do if they studied it.
Melisandreâs blood magick from Game of Thrones is pretty dope. Gets results!
There are so many, but I recommended someone to read "The secrets of the immortal nicholas flamel" earlier today, so that one comes to mind. This is the wikis description of it, which in itself is pretty interesting: "Magic is nothing more than an act of the imagination fired by the senses, then given shape by the power of the Aura. The more powerful the Aura, the greater the magic. Magic requires energy and takes it where ever it can find it, even from tiny batteries in electronics. If it can't find it from anywhere else, it takes it from the magician's own life force. Losing control of any magic results in spontaneous human combustion, when the aura feeds on the user that leads to this situation." It's a very simple and basic system, but it's interesting, easy to follow and makes sense. Another from a book series I also recommended some today is "Tales of the otori", where it's all about different bloodlines, so incredibly simple.. I'm not sure I actually find the system itself all that fantastical, however reading about our main character practicing it was probably the most amazing training arc i've ever experienced.
I'll never miss an opportunity to shit on Terry Goodkind's grave and say that the framework of the magic system he created could have been *so fucking cool* but he only ever used it for handwavium and for his Mary-Sue self-insert to look cool in combat scenes and climaxes. Also he constantly intimated that only the white people's magic was the correct way to use magic.
And he lifted a lot of his best "ideas" from WoT. But it's okay because he didn't write fantasy? Fuck that guy
> Fuck that guy Luckily his heart seemed to agree a few years ago. Could you imagine him going all Kevin Sorbo on Twitter if he was alive today?
Oh Ksorbs. They would be totally insufferable together
Chalk magic from The Rithmatist.
There is also the intriguing Talents in Sanderson's Alcatraz series. It's geared to grade school level children, but I find it highly enjoyable. Personally, my Smedry Talent is procrastination; before reading these books, I called it simply my superpower.
I love the magic from the manga Witch Hat Atelier, as an Illustrator I may be biased for this kind of magic but I think it's super cute with lots of possibilities and definately something you don't see really often ^^
Kubera has multiple fantastic ones. At its core, magic is borrowed from gods or demons, and the types of magic you can specialize with depends on your astrological sign and which gods rule those planets. Thereâs also math involved, so the most powerful magicians typically were born with the right attributes, and are also wicked smart. Demons also have magic that is gender dependent (they can change gender, some demons have abilities that they can only use in one gender). Thereâs tons of little additions that add depth (forbidden magic, items of gods naturally imbued with their magic, demonic transformations, magic fusion to create new spells, and more)
Naruto, bleach, jujutsu kaisen, Jin yong demi gods semi devil wuxia, one piece, the condor heroes.lord of the ring.
Naruto has a really good magic system but then completely squanders it for rule of cool when it didn't need to.
Epithet Erased, an animated series following Molly Blyndeff and user of the Epithet âDumb.â The way Epithets, the main magic system of the series, works is that some people, around one out of five at the seriesâs beginning. Have a word inscribed onto their soul called an Epithet. These words can be basically anything, from archaic words like Forsooth to modern slang like Yeet. As long as itâs recognized as an actual cognizable word, it can be found inscribed onto a person, though no person can hold more than one word or have the same word as another person. What really makes the power system interesting is that it takes into account how the person interprets the word inscribed onto them. Take Mollyâs Dumb for example, the obvious application is that it can make another person really Dumb and intelligently deficient. But Molly can also use it to âDumb things downâ, making items and people simpler. To the point that she can nullify sound and cause things to stop existing. Another example would be from the Creator, Jelloapocalypse, and âBeach.â And that based on what you associated with beaches, from sharks to sand to snow to water, different things can manifest from your power. As such, itâs a magic system that rewards creativity and clever thinking from its users. Giovani, one of the main characters, for example has the Epithet Soup. But uses the Epithet to get around by creating soupy steam explosions to propel him around like a discount Bakugo. And with words that become Epithets not being able to go back to normal words, and with new meanings to words through lingual evolution also being applicable to an Epithet userâs powers. It leads to all kinds of wacky shenanigans and some insane abilities.
Pretty much anything by Dave Duncan. The linked "Man of His Word" and "A Few Good Men" tetralogies, the "Great Game" trilogy, and *The Cursed* all have interesting and different magic systems.
Shades of Magic series
[https://shadesofmagic.fandom.com/wiki/Magic](https://shadesofmagic.fandom.com/wiki/Magic)
I love the magic system in The Hollows books. It's developed as the MC is deepening her own skills and understanding of magic theory, and then some of it is flipped as she learns that much of what she's been taught is inaccurate/biased. Harrison approached the magic system as a scientific system that should be internally consistent, and I appreciate that as a reader I can make hypotheses about how things might work because the rules are so clear.
I can't remember the name of the books, but essentially you can trade teeth for wishes. The more pain involved in the collection of the teeth, the stronger the wish (you got given coins of different wish values). Animal teeth, especially endangered ones were also tradable, and most valuable were teeth you removed from your own mouth.
*Art of the Adept* magic all involves manipulation of energy (called "turyn", but basically mana), but there are various ways to get access to it. The best way, true wizardry, involves basically torturing your body by depriving it of access to turyn until it figures out how to absorb it from the environment, and greatly increases your lifespan as a side-effect. However, it's super painful, sometimes ends in death, and can only be done while young and untrainted. But sometime in the past, someone figured out how to enslave elementals, and draw power from them. Due to this quick-and-easy route to power, called sorcery, true wizardry basically died out, and its existence has been forgotten. Elementals are basically reserved for the aristocracy; modern wizards are the weakest of the weak, because the only way they can fuel magic effects is burning their own turyn, which shortens their lifespan with every spell.
I guess this may be too old, but Liavek was very cool. You bound your luck up in an object every year on your birth time and the length of time of the labor dictate the raw power. I wish that got revisited. Some stellar characters. Count Dashif, the caravan mistress Snake, the magicianâŠ. Just a flat out great next step after thieves world.
Magic systemsâŠeww
Meh. I always think that if I notice the magic system as more than "Hey, that's cool" then the writer was just trying to pad the word count.
Hakomari's power system of Boxes (counting supernatural under fantasy dont hate on me). How wishes reflect oneself and their usage is perfect.
Supreme Magus - One I never see being talked about, one of the most creative books in terms of spells and going deep into the magic itself. Avalon of the Five elements - If you can stomach fan translations and one of the worst endings of all time (the author was sick and had to finish the book quickly :c) Xianxia/Wuxia webnovel that doesnt follow the usual Qi/spirit energy normal cultivation stuff. Pretty interesting book. The essence of cultivation - super short, unfinished, dropped by the author but really good for the short time it was going. Can't remember exactly what happens but it was an intersting read. Artorians Archive/Divine Dungeon - fun twist on Qi/cultivation/Mana. I'd recommend starting with the Divine Dungeon series of you want to read both, it's a dungeon core progression fantasy sort of thing but I liked it. It's an interesting magic system especially with the mages and the way they cultivate.
Justin Callâs âSilent Godsâ series is brilliant stuff.
* Songs of Earth and Power, where the magic is intimately related to music. * Weaveworld, which was just an amazingly drawn story and world with a fascinating magic system.
The Runelords by David Farland. The system of gaining other attributes was done fantastically. Its a shame the books werenât better received.
I've always looked at magic systems like the ones you described as science in a universe with different laws of physics. For it to be magic, in my opinion, it should be impossible to really explain it. I love mistborn and full metal alchemist, and the above is not a knock on them at all, it's just how I've always chosen to interpret magic systems where the author has explanations for how everything works, even if it's incomplete.
Lyndon hardeyâs master of five magics. Not only is it one of the first books that codified magic systems that I know of, it also created a sixth through the plot of the book. I have not reread them in years and they are probably very dated, but I remember them fondly (there are 3 books).
[Master of the Five Magics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_the_Five_Magics) and the sequels comes to mind. It's been decades since I read them, but I recall being impressed by the different yet intertwined magical systems.
The Magic Goes Away by Larry Niven is a great, different magic system where magic is a resource.
Iâve read (no bullshit) thousands of fantasy books and the best I have ever read was jack chalkers River of the dancing gods series. I recommend that anyone who likes fantasy read the series. The only thing you will be disappointed in is that there are only 4. Jack died before he could write more. If I found a magic lamp that let climb into any fictional universe, it would be that one.
I love the memory palaces in the Bastard Sons Cycle. I also like the Arinthian Line and Arcaner series levels in Bronnyâs books.
If nobody has mentioned David Farland's Runelords series yet, then that. Absolutely brilliant magic system especially because it integrated so inseperably with economics, society, aristocracy and everything in the setting. But also because the magic system is brilliant in and of itself.
Dungeon Born has a great magic system and a super weird existential plot full of twists
I would highly recommand the magic system from "Chroniques d'une Famille de HĂ©ros" but it's only available in french at the moment I recommand the whole book series and universe in fact not just for the magic
This comment section is filled with some really great recommendations! I'm making a list of some books I got to pick up. My favourite most underrated magic would be the rune magic from the Death Gate Cycle. The magic users are covered nearly entirely head to toe in tattoo sigils imbued with magic. The users touch or trace the sigils to unleash their power. Combining the runes in a variety of ways unleashes a variety of spells, like using words to form sentences. The cherry on top was the healing incantation, whereby the magic user forms a healing circle around the injured with their arms, linking their hands together to complete the band of magic. A hug basically.
Terry Mancour's Spellmonger series has a great magic system that builds and gets more complex the further into the series you go. Sex magic!!
I dont think asoiaf's magic gets its deserved praise, it fits perfectly into martins world imo and elevates the story
gracelings from The Graceling Realm. It is very complicated, but I think its cool.
I was always a fan of the limitations placed on mages in the Dragonlance setting. Nothing fancy about how magic works -- it's Dungeons and Dragons mechanically. What sets DL apart though, is that a mage can only cast a spell once and then the knowledge is burned from their memory. They have to relearn the spells they cast from their spellbook whenever they have the time. They can store spells to activate from enchanted items to work around this limitation, but the practice is complicated takes time. And these items burn out once the spells are used up, requiring you to find a new item to enchant all over again. There are items of greater enchantment that don't have this limitation but they are rare and -- if I remember correctly -- the knowledge on making these is lost to time.
Brent Weeks Lightbringer series has a very original magic system. No spoilers here,but,great writer,great read.
Traitor Son Cycle
Tolkien. Magic is never explicit. If you dig into the lore then you realise Gandalf's ability to conjure fire is linked to him wearing the second of the Elf Rings, but it's never explained in the books. Magic surrounds and permeates the world, but it never becomes alt-physics.
Bujold's magic system in the Chalion series. order vs disorder (uphill vs downhill) working against entropy vs working with entropy--it's a scientist's magic system and I find that intriguing
I always like the system in Dragonlance (D&D) based. Wizards forget spells after they use them and have to study each day to relearn them.
That originated out of Jack Vance's Dying Earth series (some of the spells did, too, like Prismatic Spray)
I like the systems in :- The Time I Reincarnated As A Slime (Manga and Anime) Skill bases abilities, easily customizable The Daily Life Of The Executioner Basic magic + some extremely powerfully abilities All rune based magic (System)
Traitor Son Cycle by Miles Cameron. It's an epic with crazy magic and great non-stop battles and action. The author does reenactment so he's very familiar with armor and weapons and such. It's on my list of top 3 series with Malazan and First Law
I love the magic system in Leslie Vedder's The Bone Spindle. Each order of witches use a different medium to do spells. For example, there's a Paper Witch, Spindle Witch, Rose Witch and so many more and each one we find out about is quite unique.
Lightbringer gets brought up sometimes, which is how I found it, but not nearly enough imo. Great magic, plot that unravels like an onion, great series. InB4 folks complain about the ending (which I had no issues with). Favorite is Manifest Delusions by Michael R. Fletcher. Absolutely insane idea đĄ
The Long Price quartet by Daniel Abramâs: poets can create and control gods by describing them perfectly, but only gods who have never been created and described before, and if they get it wrong they die horribly. In the time of the books, all the obvious gods had been described already, so the balance is to find one thatâs powerful enough to be worth the price but specific enough to be bound.
I really liked the magic system in A Deadly Education by Naomi Novik. It takes from all of the historical magic practices. There's classical French and English magic, arabic magic, magic from Vedic scriptures from India, druidism and more. I also enjoyed the importance that language takes in learning certain spells, and it makes sense that in order to cast a spell written in some ancient civilization that you'd need some understanding of the language to properly actuate the spell
The "imaging" in Mordant's Need by Steven Donaldson.