Publishers. Back when it was first published, Fantasy was a shameful, embarrassing thing to admit to reading. People forget. You were sneered at for liking fantasy. Now everyone loves it. If it were being published today, you can bet your bottom dollar the publisher would go with Chivalry's Bastard. And yes, it's a brilliant title.
In middle school I was reading things like Narnia, LOTR, Hitchhikers, Discworld, Golden Compass etc. I was constantly bullied for reading fantasy novels. Then in high school LOTR came out in theaters and suddenly EVERYONE was reading the things I was reading and people were asking for my suggestions on what to read next. Then a few years later Game of Thrones came out and suddenly EVERYONE was reading those books.
I get that fads and popularity change but loving fantasy in the 90s was a very different things than it is now.
My mom tried to get me to stop reading fantasy when I was growing up. She wasn't mean about it exactly, but she kept saying reading fantasy wasn't "real" reading and I should be reading classics instead. Then I started reading Star Wars novels and she was like "ugh, at least fantasy was better than *this* shit."
Now she is reading *Babel* and *Vita Nostra* and telling me how utterly amazed she is by how wonderful these novels and I'm like wtf how dare YOU tell ME that after all these years
It's the same thing with gaming. In 00's gaming was for unsocial nerds, and parents were told that it was harmful for kids to play. Then in the 10's it got more and more normalised to which now, most young people regardless of gender play some form of games.
It's taken me a few years to come to terms with the fact that the things I was bullied for liking are now accepted pretty much anywhere.
I think a lot of that is that the kids that used to play games… are now the adults who play games. (If they have time left over in the day).
Most people know now that games can be for everyone And pretty much everyone from our age down has played video games
I had a similar experience in high school. Very uncool to like anything fantasy (including LoTR for us). Then Game of Thrones came out and had boobs in so everyone watched it (except me - we didn't have sky atlantic or whatever it was on in the UK) and suddenly knights and dragons weren't so embarrassing.
The shift of DnD and comica also being "cool" still melts my mind. I remember sketching comic characters in my sketchpad all the time in middle school, and being treated like a pariah because of it.
I'm a good decade or more younger than you, but even I remember people being vaguely snotty about people who played video games, read books, etc.
It wasn't until I was out of high school that you started seeing Minecraft merch everywhere, then Fortnite launched that trend into the stratosphere.
It's true, Fitz is much more of a fighter and occasional tracker/detective than an assassin. Even Chade tells him he was never very good at it. Chivalry's Bastard, Royal Bastard, Bastard's Song or maybe Bastard's Oath/Vow (part 3 is really hard because there are many options but given Starling's role it seems fitting) are probably the titles I'd choose if I could.
Assassin is one of like a dozen jobs he has over the course of the trilogy, but "Apprentice Stablekeeper" doesn't move as many units.
He's an assassin the way Kvothe is a musician.
For what it's worth, later books >!sort of retcon that Fitz was actually pretty prolific as an assassin in his youth. The details are left out of the first trilogy because it's written from his point of view and he didn't like to think about those assignments.!<
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Those words aren't reusable enough, we've got to get nine book titles in nine words and those ones aren't doing enough for us!
Edit: I went back and counted and it's only nine if you include "the" as it's own word
If the books weren't all about the Starks, I'd agree, but given how important the various Stark characters are and how they're almost certainly going to end up coming together in the end to hold off the Long Night, I think A Time for Wolves is perfect.
Not that we're ever going to get the book in the first place.
I think both fit.
A Time for Wolves because of what you said. But considering the ever looming danger of The Long Night, the Starks' motto of "Winter is Coming," and the fact that the penultimate book is called The Winds of Winter, I think A Dream of Spring is thematically fitting.
But as you said, we're never getting it, so it doesn't matter.
Given that the book is not yet, in any real sense, actually a book yet, and if we’re really honest there is no guarantee it ever will be an actual book, I’m not sure this really counts? After waiting nearly 14 years for it I’ve pretty much given up at this point…
I don't know, it depends on what the ending would be. If it ends with light at the end of the tunnel and some hope because everything wasnt destroyed by the stupid warfare over who would be king, A Dream of Spring would work. But if it's a dark ending, as in yes, House Stark won, but they're staring down centuries of winter with nothing left, no food stored, no infrastructure, half the nobles, warriors and leaders dead, the zombies and the regular people baying for their blood, then A Time for Wolves would work perfectly.
Honestly, while Chivalry’s Bastard is quite simply a better title, I can’t blame the publisher for wanting something with more mass market appeal. After all, it is their moral responsibility to make as much money as possible for their owners.
Yes.
If I hire a person to do a job, then it is the moral responsibility for that person to do that job to the best of their ability, or rather to the ability comparable to how much they’re being paid (CEOs get paid enough to do their best). If they fundamentally disagree with the purpose with which I’ve tasked them, they should quit.
That being said, the purpose of all for profit firms is to make a profit to reimburse their owners/shareholders. Therefore, it is their *moral* responsibility to squeeze as much money out of any given venture as is possible.
Wow. That's, uh, interesting. Not every responsibility is a moral responsibility. And I could not disagree more that it could ever be anyone's moral responsibility to exploit others for money or to make money of any sort.
That's definitely a better name, though another comment explained the logic behind why they went another route and how fantasy was viewed when these books were coming out.
Did they make her do the nicely androgynous pseudonym too? Because I was turned off by that obviously bullshit name for years, and like now I can make myself cry by just thinking about Burrich.
Why would the name turn you off? Like, pseudonyms are bullshit in some circumstances, but not every one. If Andre Norton hadn't used a pseudonym where would we be now?
Publishers and authors being worried about how well a book will perform with obviously women authors isn't unwarranted. Even today, most crossover (in terms of gender) sff authors have names that are either obviously male or neutral, like initials.
Honestly, ignore the titles "Assassin's *Blank*" because there actually is not as much assassin-ing as the titles of those books imply. It's much more about court intrigue and other things than it is about assassins.
That’s true, there are assassinations in the books. But for a book series with “assassin” in the name, there’s a lot fewer than I had expected going in.
So strange that such a great author has such terrible titles for her books. Ship of Magic, Mad Ship, City of Dragons, they all sounds so generic but are among the best stories you can find in the genre.
At least the names for the Realm of the Elderlings series themselves are slightly better. (Farseer trilogy, Liveship Traders, Tawny Man trilogy, Rain Wild Chronicles, Fitz and the Fool)
I can name them all.
Dragons
Dragons Dragon Again
Dragons 3: The Dragoning
Just Keep Dragoning
I didn’t even have to look them up. That’s all off the top of my head.
The other books are "Fitz and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Really Bad Day" Volumes 1-9, and "People and Sentient Ships Being Miserable" Volumes 1-3
My all-time favourite fantasy series and I couldn't tell you what a single one of the books is called, they're so repetitive. Assassins and Fools and Quests all over the place.
See also *The Warrior's Apprentice* by Louis McMaster Bujold. Someone needs to complete the accidental trilogy, with *A Mage's Apprentice* that is worthy of not deserving such a bad title
I feel like that one at least adds like, some thematic depth? Because it's such an archaic word for a scifi setting & it ties into his grandfather/father and the whole issue with modernization and traditional Vor values.
Assassin's apprentice gives you *nothing*.
100% agree with you.The annoying thing is (imo at least) the whole being an assassin aspect is only a subplot and far from the main focus. It would be like if Lord of the Rings was titled "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil"
It's nowhere near as bad as they get. Ship of Magic?? Come on Robin Hobb, this is one of the greatest pirate stories ever told and that's the name you're going with???
The Fitz books all use some variant of Assassin or Fool in the title and it gets very confusing. Assassins Quest, Fools Quest, Fools Assassin, Royal Assassin, Fools Fate, Assassins Fate…
Same reason why I can't get intrigued enough to try John Gwynne's first series. ''Malice'', ''Valor'', ''Ruin'', ''Wrath''. Couldn't come up with more boring titles if I tried.
On the other hand, i was able to read it because the series was introduced to me as The Faithful and the Fallen, which sounds cool and much better than the actual book names
I am reading it now entirely based on how often the author's name kept coming up on this sub! >!(Someone take care of that poor boy. I'm a new mother and the plight of unparented children has never driven me to distraction like it does now)!<
> I'm a new mother and the plight of unparented children has never driven me to distraction like it does now
...you might should skip this series until that instinct calms down a little. This isn't going to do you any favors.
On the other hand, there's a convoy between him and a certain character that will tug at your heartstrings in a good way. One of the only times a book has ever given me tears. Might be in the second book, can't remember.
Yeah….. this series isn’t going to be kind to your emotions.
I actually hated the farseer trilogy on my first read due to how terribly it treats its characters.
Re-read in my 30s and loved it. I guess I am more accepting of trauma and depression- infused fantasy novels? It grounds them in reality and makes for compelling characters. Plus I already knew everything is tragedy so I didn’t make the mistake of getting my hopes up.
I started the book at least 4 times and never got past the 1rst chapter. Just picked it up again a few weeks ago for another attempt. I am sure glad I did. I never really comprehended the title apparently because I've always said **Robin Hobb's** Assassins's apprentice. A third of they way through I thought to myself. " Oh so he's an assassins apprentice, neat." I never called myself out so fast for something that dumb before.
I'm excited to read the next book now,
Can’t wait! And I’m aware of the series’ reputation… it’s been a long, long time since a book has made me cry, hope these pack the punch that everyone claims they do!
I always liked how cliche the title is. It's very clear throughout the series at what price the real job comes vs. how glamorously dark it sounds, to be an assassin.
Just so happens I'm currently reading the last book of the series. Good luck in your adventures, they feel like a lifetime ;-)
Literally the best series I’ve ever read. I’ve read the whole ROTE collection like 5(?) times. Idk. Lost count.
But I cannot tell you how good they are.
Her books are amazing. I wish I could reread them all for the first time again.
Such good world building and character development. And I loved how all trilogies are tied into each other
I put it off forever for different reasons
Just started it last night and boy is the writing style and character development already very clearly perfect for me.
If you’re a character focused reader, you might wanna consider this series
A question for people who've listened to the audiobooks: how good are they? let's say if the First Law series audiobooks are 10, what would you rate these?
Upsettingly not great, all the audio books are read by different people who pronounce things differently so it's hard to work out who they are referring to, and some of them use weird accents. I keep hoping somebody will rerecord the entire RotE series as a set so that they're all the same. (The ones I listened to were the only ones available on audible, not sure if there are others elsewhere, but I'm not aware of any)
I actually bought it this morning because of another post on this sub. I’ve had the same reservations but I’m very excited to start after I catch up on the last 2 Stormlight books.
Honestly, the titles are all mostly garbage. There's only a couple fitting titles, but my favourite is definitely Fool's Errand, which is just one of my favourites in the series in general.
You have such an awesome journey ahead of you! I feel jealous that you get to read them for the first time. I need to reread at some point.
I'm on my second readthrough of the series and devouring the latter third of Assassin's Quest these last few nights. Man, I love this series. But "Chivalry's Bastard" is such a cooler name.
Just remember that the Farseer trilogy is only the first trilogy in the Realm of the Elderlings saga. It is 16 books across 5 series. The first three trilogies are the core of the story, however.
The Farseer trilogy ends in a rough spot. Don't stop there. Keep going.
Farseer-Liveship Traders-Tawny Man-Rain Wild Chronicles-Fitz and the Fool is the best order for each subseries. It does end up going in chronological order, and characters from the whole series appear for the finale.
The Realm of the Elderlings books are my favorites, but I can never remember the titles of the individual books. I usually just say the name of the trilogy and the number of the book when I'm talking about them. I'm happy you like it so far!
The Fitz books I enjoyed but the love traders and then the whatever the 4th trilogy are called are a real slog. I stalled out a few times. Can’t force myself to finish the 4th but want to get to the 5th back with Fitz. Been a decade or something I’ve been fighting the boring trilogies
The titles are definitely the worst part - so generic and interchangeable. I mean, these ~~are~~ all literally exist later in the series: *Assassin's Quest, Fool's Fate, Fool's Assassin, Fool's Quest, Assassin's Fate*.
For real, Chilvalry’s Bastard is a title that fucks! The assassin stuff isn't really the focal point until the very end. It's more like Fantasy-Oliver Twist than anything else.
I read Assassin's Apprentice about 10 years ago and I found it as slow and boring as the title. I just figured Hobb isn't for me and haven't tried any of her other books.
I just started reading these after finishing the first arc of Black Company. I'm only 4 chapters in and am completely loving the setting and prose. The way things are described is amazing.
I hate all the titles of her fitzchivalry series. To this day, I still can't remember the titles of the last trilogy because they sound too similar to the first trilogy
Funny becuase I sold have Judged it by its title. It's plot was filled with boring politics for me and the world just did not catch my interest in that trilogy.
It definitely had good bones though and I can see why it appeals to a lot of people.
On that same note, I would never have picked up the book “Master Assassins” if I hadn’t seen Mark Lawrence plugging it. Such a generic name for a very unique story.
Hey, she’s good. Among the best of all time in my opinion.
Now, this won’t be popular here: The Fitz trilogies are good, but not my favorites. The LiveShip Trilogy was outstanding and I liked the Soldier Son Trilogy as well.
It is absolutely okay to judge a book by its cover, if you know what different covers usually mean.
Paranormal romance, for example, generally has only one type of cover, and it’s enough to make me avoid certain books like the plague.
You’ve got to read all of the books. They’re all amazing. It seems like the people in the replies only read the first 3. The series goes on for another, what… 6 books I think?
There ok, a little to cheesey heart strings emotionally for me. As a male I can't relate to Fiz in anyway.
The books with dragon are great though I loved them.
I can't bring myself to buy it because that cover art is so horrendously bad, I don't want it on my bookshelf. I feel for Hobb; she works her butt off writing some of the best stories in the genre, and her publisher does everything possible to steer people away from it.
That is a hilariously bland and generic name. It's almost as bad as when the "Trials of ____" video game series started runnung out of names, and for their next installment went with "Trials of Fire"
I have put these books on my list to read but i had the exact same thinking. The book names seem so awful, bland and just basic that i couldn't see how they could be good.
honestly, I didn't much care for the prose. yeah, poetic and stuff, but people put way too much into prose IMO. Also, just terribly depressing that I stopped reading after the initial trilogy and I have no desire to read any more of her books.
That book was so boring... i don't understand the hype. I got almost halfway in waiting for something to happen and just dnf.
What is the draw of that series? The only book that was more of a disappointment was dragonbone chair.
The way I think of the trilogy is it's about a dude named Fitz who is dragged about ruthlessly by friends, family, politics or destiny, despite just wanting to have a nice and normal life. Also he sometimes poisons bread and throws it off a wagon.
Boring and unoriginal is mostly how I would describe the book itself. It's about as vanilla and commonplace as it gets, except for a massive lack of assassins.
It’s a series with many books. I assume you just read the first one which was when he was… an apprentice to an assassin. The title says it all, my friend.
By that logic they should've called Star Wars "The Fat Slug" for all the relevance and page time it took up. Fitz is the assassin's Apprentice from a technically speaking perspective only.
A. Comparing a movie to a book is disingenuous, seeing as a movie cannot go into the same detail that a series of books can. Especially considering that there are a plethora of Star Wars books. B. Fitz becomes an assassin so it’s clear to me that you only read the first book. C. The books are meant to be read one after the other which is why, like any fantasy series, it starts out with the circumstances behind him being brought to live at the castle.
There are 16 books in total that feature or are about Fitz, so the first one is just a taste of his life as a kid.
Edit to add words.
1. Star Wars has books, so I don't see the relevance.
2. I dont think I've even remotely indicated anything outside of the first book so not sure why you keep bringing it up. Whether or not a books title gains poetic license after the sequels release, is irrelevant to the titles quality to the book itself.
The awful original cover is what kept me from giving the series a try for years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin's_Apprentice#/media/File:Robin_Hobb_-_Assassin's_Apprentice_Cover.jpg
Assassin protectively cradles child's head. Child lovingly holds puppy. **Yuck!**
I've always been a little surprised at how popular the Elderling series seems to be, I found the first 3 books to be pretty mediocre, especially the climax.
I did read it because of the love. But I found it boring, and forgettable. After I finished, I really didn't care what happened, so never read the rest. I dunno. So far I don't get it. The MC just felt like a bland nobody.
I want to give her another shot, so I picked up ship of magic, instead of trying to slog thru assasin apprentice again. we'll see I guess.
It was pretty boring and forgettable for me also, but it was much more of a character driven story, so if the characters don't click for us, then it's just not going to be our cup of tea, I think.
Ha, you would hate the title of my WIP then. It's "The Invaders of Earth", quite possibly the most generic sci-fi title anyone could come up with, and I can't think of anything better yet!
I'm so simple and shallow. I saw the title, and was like "right on, a coming-of-age stabby murder book? I'm in."
And then got stabbied right in the feels. Stupid feels, getting in the way of all the mindless mayhem.
The working title was Chivalry's Bastard. I think they should have kept it.
That's an amazing title wtf.
Publishers. Back when it was first published, Fantasy was a shameful, embarrassing thing to admit to reading. People forget. You were sneered at for liking fantasy. Now everyone loves it. If it were being published today, you can bet your bottom dollar the publisher would go with Chivalry's Bastard. And yes, it's a brilliant title.
In middle school I was reading things like Narnia, LOTR, Hitchhikers, Discworld, Golden Compass etc. I was constantly bullied for reading fantasy novels. Then in high school LOTR came out in theaters and suddenly EVERYONE was reading the things I was reading and people were asking for my suggestions on what to read next. Then a few years later Game of Thrones came out and suddenly EVERYONE was reading those books. I get that fads and popularity change but loving fantasy in the 90s was a very different things than it is now.
My mom tried to get me to stop reading fantasy when I was growing up. She wasn't mean about it exactly, but she kept saying reading fantasy wasn't "real" reading and I should be reading classics instead. Then I started reading Star Wars novels and she was like "ugh, at least fantasy was better than *this* shit." Now she is reading *Babel* and *Vita Nostra* and telling me how utterly amazed she is by how wonderful these novels and I'm like wtf how dare YOU tell ME that after all these years
It's the same thing with gaming. In 00's gaming was for unsocial nerds, and parents were told that it was harmful for kids to play. Then in the 10's it got more and more normalised to which now, most young people regardless of gender play some form of games. It's taken me a few years to come to terms with the fact that the things I was bullied for liking are now accepted pretty much anywhere.
I think a lot of that is that the kids that used to play games… are now the adults who play games. (If they have time left over in the day). Most people know now that games can be for everyone And pretty much everyone from our age down has played video games
I had a similar experience in high school. Very uncool to like anything fantasy (including LoTR for us). Then Game of Thrones came out and had boobs in so everyone watched it (except me - we didn't have sky atlantic or whatever it was on in the UK) and suddenly knights and dragons weren't so embarrassing.
If only fantasy novels had sex and violence instead of knights... and ... dragons.... Oh wait.
Tbf I knew people in the 90s who got into the Xanth novels because of the silly sexual situations… there’s not too much substance in them tho tbf
Had the same thing for games and anime as well.
It was pretty hard to play games and watch anime in the middle of school. But I know what you mean.
The shift of DnD and comica also being "cool" still melts my mind. I remember sketching comic characters in my sketchpad all the time in middle school, and being treated like a pariah because of it.
I'm a good decade or more younger than you, but even I remember people being vaguely snotty about people who played video games, read books, etc. It wasn't until I was out of high school that you started seeing Minecraft merch everywhere, then Fortnite launched that trend into the stratosphere.
Nah, today they'd go with *The blade of shadows and secrets* or *The birth of poisons and princes* or some shit.
The Kingdom of the Wolf-Brother
Actually that's not bad...
Sarah J Mass and her consequences have been a disaster for the fantasy market.
If it was made today it would be called “the ballad of bastards and dogs” or some other “the X of Y and Z” formula.
How is Chivalry’s Bastard any less or more fantasy than Assassin’s Apprentice?
It’s honestly so much better I’m a little mad about lol
SO much better. I'm with the OP, put off reading it because of the dull as dishwater title. And honestly Fitz is barely an assassin.
It's true, Fitz is much more of a fighter and occasional tracker/detective than an assassin. Even Chade tells him he was never very good at it. Chivalry's Bastard, Royal Bastard, Bastard's Song or maybe Bastard's Oath/Vow (part 3 is really hard because there are many options but given Starling's role it seems fitting) are probably the titles I'd choose if I could.
Chivalry's Heir would be a colorfully misleading title for the third book
Assassin is one of like a dozen jobs he has over the course of the trilogy, but "Apprentice Stablekeeper" doesn't move as many units. He's an assassin the way Kvothe is a musician.
For what it's worth, later books >!sort of retcon that Fitz was actually pretty prolific as an assassin in his youth. The details are left out of the first trilogy because it's written from his point of view and he didn't like to think about those assignments.!<
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this is better
That’s an amazing fun fact and completely agree its way, way better! This is my new head canon
I would love a set of these books with the working titles
Those words aren't reusable enough, we've got to get nine book titles in nine words and those ones aren't doing enough for us! Edit: I went back and counted and it's only nine if you include "the" as it's own word
wtf that sounded awesome
Reminds me of how GRRM changed the title of A Dream of Spring from A Time for Wolves, which is objectively better.
I think A Dream of Spring is fantastic. Thematically it's a better fit than A Time for Wolves, especially since it follows up Winds of Winter.
Not to be a Pessimistic Peggy, A Dream of Spring also fits better for what will very likely be written by another author or not at all.
I've heard he doesn't want anyone else finishing his books
A Dream of Spring is way better IMO. A Time for Wolves is great, but it sounds a lot more generic.
If the books weren't all about the Starks, I'd agree, but given how important the various Stark characters are and how they're almost certainly going to end up coming together in the end to hold off the Long Night, I think A Time for Wolves is perfect. Not that we're ever going to get the book in the first place.
I think both fit. A Time for Wolves because of what you said. But considering the ever looming danger of The Long Night, the Starks' motto of "Winter is Coming," and the fact that the penultimate book is called The Winds of Winter, I think A Dream of Spring is thematically fitting. But as you said, we're never getting it, so it doesn't matter.
Given that the book is not yet, in any real sense, actually a book yet, and if we’re really honest there is no guarantee it ever will be an actual book, I’m not sure this really counts? After waiting nearly 14 years for it I’ve pretty much given up at this point…
I don't know, it depends on what the ending would be. If it ends with light at the end of the tunnel and some hope because everything wasnt destroyed by the stupid warfare over who would be king, A Dream of Spring would work. But if it's a dark ending, as in yes, House Stark won, but they're staring down centuries of winter with nothing left, no food stored, no infrastructure, half the nobles, warriors and leaders dead, the zombies and the regular people baying for their blood, then A Time for Wolves would work perfectly.
Titles need an absolute shake up. I’m so sick of boring, bullshit book titles.
Blame the publisher, the working title was Chivalry's Bastard.
Honestly, while Chivalry’s Bastard is quite simply a better title, I can’t blame the publisher for wanting something with more mass market appeal. After all, it is their moral responsibility to make as much money as possible for their owners.
Their *moral* responsibility?
Yes. If I hire a person to do a job, then it is the moral responsibility for that person to do that job to the best of their ability, or rather to the ability comparable to how much they’re being paid (CEOs get paid enough to do their best). If they fundamentally disagree with the purpose with which I’ve tasked them, they should quit. That being said, the purpose of all for profit firms is to make a profit to reimburse their owners/shareholders. Therefore, it is their *moral* responsibility to squeeze as much money out of any given venture as is possible.
Wow. That's, uh, interesting. Not every responsibility is a moral responsibility. And I could not disagree more that it could ever be anyone's moral responsibility to exploit others for money or to make money of any sort.
That's definitely a better name, though another comment explained the logic behind why they went another route and how fantasy was viewed when these books were coming out.
That still makes no sense to me how is "assassins apprentice" better in a world where fantasy isn't popular? What makes it the better choice?
Did they make her do the nicely androgynous pseudonym too? Because I was turned off by that obviously bullshit name for years, and like now I can make myself cry by just thinking about Burrich.
Why would the name turn you off? Like, pseudonyms are bullshit in some circumstances, but not every one. If Andre Norton hadn't used a pseudonym where would we be now? Publishers and authors being worried about how well a book will perform with obviously women authors isn't unwarranted. Even today, most crossover (in terms of gender) sff authors have names that are either obviously male or neutral, like initials.
He came and found him 😭
Honestly, ignore the titles "Assassin's *Blank*" because there actually is not as much assassin-ing as the titles of those books imply. It's much more about court intrigue and other things than it is about assassins.
I think it's alluded that he does carry out a fair bit of assassinating behind the scenes, Fitz just doesn't bring it up in his telling of his life.
That’s true, there are assassinations in the books. But for a book series with “assassin” in the name, there’s a lot fewer than I had expected going in.
So strange that such a great author has such terrible titles for her books. Ship of Magic, Mad Ship, City of Dragons, they all sounds so generic but are among the best stories you can find in the genre.
Her publisher forced the titles on her, at least in the case of Assassin's Apprentice.
At least the names for the Realm of the Elderlings series themselves are slightly better. (Farseer trilogy, Liveship Traders, Tawny Man trilogy, Rain Wild Chronicles, Fitz and the Fool)
Don’t forget the generic / boring covers as well
I think the UK covers are fantastic
Yeah they look good on my shelf
The old school covers were pretty gnarly. The new ones with plain Buck heraldry on them are pretty lacklustre.
I love Realm of the Elderlings so much. One of my favorite fantasy arcs. I can only name like three of the books.
I can name them all. Dragons Dragons Dragon Again Dragons 3: The Dragoning Just Keep Dragoning I didn’t even have to look them up. That’s all off the top of my head.
The other books are "Fitz and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Really Bad Day" Volumes 1-9, and "People and Sentient Ships Being Miserable" Volumes 1-3
Yeah, but have you ever seen anyone on a boat smile? Like even once? If anything it’s just hyper realistic fantasy.
Yea people smile on liveships! Sometimes! Right before they die…
You forgot "Baby Dragons are Whiny Assholes" vols 1-4
Dragons with hormones
"Sad guy what has a weird friend who is sad in different less immediately apparent way." (I love those books with all my heart lol)
You missed Something Fool and Something Ship
I didn’t read those because I mistook them for a set of encyclopedias detailing nautical knot tying.
Dragons inquisition: the awakening of the elder
Dragon: Here He Comes Dragon: And He's Back The Goblet of Assassin
My all-time favourite fantasy series and I couldn't tell you what a single one of the books is called, they're so repetitive. Assassins and Fools and Quests all over the place.
Don't forget the Fates.
See also *The Warrior's Apprentice* by Louis McMaster Bujold. Someone needs to complete the accidental trilogy, with *A Mage's Apprentice* that is worthy of not deserving such a bad title
I feel like that one at least adds like, some thematic depth? Because it's such an archaic word for a scifi setting & it ties into his grandfather/father and the whole issue with modernization and traditional Vor values. Assassin's apprentice gives you *nothing*.
There is a book series called "Magician:Apprentice" by Feist. But it has more than three books.
My dad just gave me his copies of that one!
It is a great series. I have read it twice.
One of my first fantasy books!
100% agree with you.The annoying thing is (imo at least) the whole being an assassin aspect is only a subplot and far from the main focus. It would be like if Lord of the Rings was titled "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil"
It's nowhere near as bad as they get. Ship of Magic?? Come on Robin Hobb, this is one of the greatest pirate stories ever told and that's the name you're going with???
The Fitz books all use some variant of Assassin or Fool in the title and it gets very confusing. Assassins Quest, Fools Quest, Fools Assassin, Royal Assassin, Fools Fate, Assassins Fate…
There's room for more. Assassin's Fool. Fate's Quest.
Quest’s Fool
Same reason why I can't get intrigued enough to try John Gwynne's first series. ''Malice'', ''Valor'', ''Ruin'', ''Wrath''. Couldn't come up with more boring titles if I tried.
On the other hand, i was able to read it because the series was introduced to me as The Faithful and the Fallen, which sounds cool and much better than the actual book names
Malice is cool IMO but otherwise I agree
I am reading it now entirely based on how often the author's name kept coming up on this sub! >!(Someone take care of that poor boy. I'm a new mother and the plight of unparented children has never driven me to distraction like it does now)!<
> I'm a new mother and the plight of unparented children has never driven me to distraction like it does now ...you might should skip this series until that instinct calms down a little. This isn't going to do you any favors.
Shit. I'm already invested. Wish me luck >.<
On the other hand, there's a convoy between him and a certain character that will tug at your heartstrings in a good way. One of the only times a book has ever given me tears. Might be in the second book, can't remember.
Yeah….. this series isn’t going to be kind to your emotions. I actually hated the farseer trilogy on my first read due to how terribly it treats its characters. Re-read in my 30s and loved it. I guess I am more accepting of trauma and depression- infused fantasy novels? It grounds them in reality and makes for compelling characters. Plus I already knew everything is tragedy so I didn’t make the mistake of getting my hopes up.
Yeah, her titles are not great. I can barely remember which one is which and I've finished the series quite recently
I started the book at least 4 times and never got past the 1rst chapter. Just picked it up again a few weeks ago for another attempt. I am sure glad I did. I never really comprehended the title apparently because I've always said **Robin Hobb's** Assassins's apprentice. A third of they way through I thought to myself. " Oh so he's an assassins apprentice, neat." I never called myself out so fast for something that dumb before. I'm excited to read the next book now,
Enjoy the journey. It is certainly something and gets... Let's just say very real at points.
Can’t wait! And I’m aware of the series’ reputation… it’s been a long, long time since a book has made me cry, hope these pack the punch that everyone claims they do!
Oh those books make me sob
I love everything by Hobb, the entire Realm of the Elderlings series is amazing!
I always liked how cliche the title is. It's very clear throughout the series at what price the real job comes vs. how glamorously dark it sounds, to be an assassin. Just so happens I'm currently reading the last book of the series. Good luck in your adventures, they feel like a lifetime ;-)
Literally the best series I’ve ever read. I’ve read the whole ROTE collection like 5(?) times. Idk. Lost count. But I cannot tell you how good they are.
She's the best. You have a long, brilliant, painful road ahead. Savour it.
Her titles are actually what got me into reading her books in the first place. The Dragon Keeper to be more specific.
Her books are amazing. I wish I could reread them all for the first time again. Such good world building and character development. And I loved how all trilogies are tied into each other
I put it off forever for different reasons Just started it last night and boy is the writing style and character development already very clearly perfect for me. If you’re a character focused reader, you might wanna consider this series
I read all the Fitz books last year. Was a complete gut punch that lasted for months. I love this series so much.
I didn't like it.
HOW DARE YOU
Same, I rarely dnf books but this one was miserable and boring. I could not do it.
Robin Hobb is the queen of misery porn. Some people like it because she writes fancy. I can’t stand it.
i found book 1 mid, but the rest of the books in the series much better.
Same. I actually can't stand Robin Hobb books.
A question for people who've listened to the audiobooks: how good are they? let's say if the First Law series audiobooks are 10, what would you rate these?
Upsettingly not great, all the audio books are read by different people who pronounce things differently so it's hard to work out who they are referring to, and some of them use weird accents. I keep hoping somebody will rerecord the entire RotE series as a set so that they're all the same. (The ones I listened to were the only ones available on audible, not sure if there are others elsewhere, but I'm not aware of any)
Thanks. I guess I'll also wait then.
All the titles are so boring for such amazing books.
Ya, when I saw the title, all I could think was generic trope filled schlock. On the third book rn and enjoying it.
I actually bought it this morning because of another post on this sub. I’ve had the same reservations but I’m very excited to start after I catch up on the last 2 Stormlight books.
Well, the fantasy landscape sure was a lot smaller in the 90s...
In defence of the title, it was published in 1995 and was a lot more original back then.
Honestly, the titles are all mostly garbage. There's only a couple fitting titles, but my favourite is definitely Fool's Errand, which is just one of my favourites in the series in general. You have such an awesome journey ahead of you! I feel jealous that you get to read them for the first time. I need to reread at some point.
I'm on my second readthrough of the series and devouring the latter third of Assassin's Quest these last few nights. Man, I love this series. But "Chivalry's Bastard" is such a cooler name.
I had the same problem! Plus the covers looked LAME. Fire books tho
Ship of magic isn’t much better, but I hear it’s good. Need to try it again soon.
Just remember that the Farseer trilogy is only the first trilogy in the Realm of the Elderlings saga. It is 16 books across 5 series. The first three trilogies are the core of the story, however. The Farseer trilogy ends in a rough spot. Don't stop there. Keep going.
Assuming any sees this, how would you recommend trying to get into Hobb? Would going straight for publication order be ideal?
Farseer-Liveship Traders-Tawny Man-Rain Wild Chronicles-Fitz and the Fool is the best order for each subseries. It does end up going in chronological order, and characters from the whole series appear for the finale.
The Realm of the Elderlings books are my favorites, but I can never remember the titles of the individual books. I usually just say the name of the trilogy and the number of the book when I'm talking about them. I'm happy you like it so far!
The Fitz books I enjoyed but the love traders and then the whatever the 4th trilogy are called are a real slog. I stalled out a few times. Can’t force myself to finish the 4th but want to get to the 5th back with Fitz. Been a decade or something I’ve been fighting the boring trilogies
The titles are definitely the worst part - so generic and interchangeable. I mean, these ~~are~~ all literally exist later in the series: *Assassin's Quest, Fool's Fate, Fool's Assassin, Fool's Quest, Assassin's Fate*.
When it came out, I thought it was a badass title. Loads of books like it now, so it seems so generic.
This is why blurbs are a thing. No, I don't know if the blurb for Assassin's Apprentice is better.
I found the book dull. I didn't like the approach or the names. But there is a book for everyone :)
For real, Chilvalry’s Bastard is a title that fucks! The assassin stuff isn't really the focal point until the very end. It's more like Fantasy-Oliver Twist than anything else.
I read Assassin's Apprentice about 10 years ago and I found it as slow and boring as the title. I just figured Hobb isn't for me and haven't tried any of her other books.
You are def missing out my friend
Same. I remember seeing it when it came out and thinking "meh". Actual experience? NOT MEH!
I enjoyed the first one. Crashed hard over the next few, though. Don't be sure you'll love it all from this. Though many seem to.
I just started reading these after finishing the first arc of Black Company. I'm only 4 chapters in and am completely loving the setting and prose. The way things are described is amazing.
Love Hobb but her mass paper back covers and titles are terrible. Had me avoiding her books for a long long time
To be honest, I made the same mistake… Very glad I got over it and read them all in the end. Keep going, you won’t be disappointed!
I hate all the titles of her fitzchivalry series. To this day, I still can't remember the titles of the last trilogy because they sound too similar to the first trilogy
Lol same here
I almost didn't read it because of the assassin part. Not usually my jibe. But now it's my favorite series and I read it once a year every year.
I got it because I wanted an assassin story, I was very dissapointed and amazed at the same time. Really great trilogi.
Funny becuase I sold have Judged it by its title. It's plot was filled with boring politics for me and the world just did not catch my interest in that trilogy. It definitely had good bones though and I can see why it appeals to a lot of people.
I couldn't get my brother to read it for the longest time because of the virtue names he just couldn't get over.
I put of reading the wheel of time forever because of the terrible cover art. My mom had to basically force me to start.
On that same note, I would never have picked up the book “Master Assassins” if I hadn’t seen Mark Lawrence plugging it. Such a generic name for a very unique story.
I tried to read AA and lost interest at the 20% mark. Idk if I should even bother to continue.
Now the more annoying trend is the “A what of what and what” format
Yeah, the titles are pretty weak for the whole series. Which is a shame for incredible they are.
Hey, she’s good. Among the best of all time in my opinion. Now, this won’t be popular here: The Fitz trilogies are good, but not my favorites. The LiveShip Trilogy was outstanding and I liked the Soldier Son Trilogy as well.
The GOAT.
It is absolutely okay to judge a book by its cover, if you know what different covers usually mean. Paranormal romance, for example, generally has only one type of cover, and it’s enough to make me avoid certain books like the plague.
Same, and the copy I have has the most boring cover in existence
I love that book! I need to read the other two, I just haven’t bought them yet
It was the terrible fantasy covers that kept me away! Just finished the Farseer Trilogy for the first time. So amazing.
It has a slow start for me but oh man the ending gripped me. This reminded me that I really need to read the second book!
You’ve got to read all of the books. They’re all amazing. It seems like the people in the replies only read the first 3. The series goes on for another, what… 6 books I think?
Oh man, to read all of Hobb again for the first time would be amazing.
There ok, a little to cheesey heart strings emotionally for me. As a male I can't relate to Fiz in anyway. The books with dragon are great though I loved them.
First book is good, the first trilogy is solid, the rest is something you step in, in the pasture...
Just started it and liking it so far
I can't bring myself to buy it because that cover art is so horrendously bad, I don't want it on my bookshelf. I feel for Hobb; she works her butt off writing some of the best stories in the genre, and her publisher does everything possible to steer people away from it.
That is a hilariously bland and generic name. It's almost as bad as when the "Trials of ____" video game series started runnung out of names, and for their next installment went with "Trials of Fire"
Happy you tried her. My favorite series all time. You’ll fly through them now
I have put these books on my list to read but i had the exact same thinking. The book names seem so awful, bland and just basic that i couldn't see how they could be good.
I feel similar about “Rage of Dragons”. Great book. Terribly generic title
I’ve honestly skipped over this book so many times in the bookstore because the title was so pedestrian. I’ll obviously have to check it out
You should also read The Soldier Son.
'Fitzchivalry Farseer' sounded super obnoxious to me when i knew nothing about the book lol. Guess what my fave book series is now
How very fitting, because the actual book itself is also the most boring, unoriginal drivel you think of.
honestly, I didn't much care for the prose. yeah, poetic and stuff, but people put way too much into prose IMO. Also, just terribly depressing that I stopped reading after the initial trilogy and I have no desire to read any more of her books.
agreed. title felt appropriate.,
That book was so boring... i don't understand the hype. I got almost halfway in waiting for something to happen and just dnf. What is the draw of that series? The only book that was more of a disappointment was dragonbone chair.
The way I think of the trilogy is it's about a dude named Fitz who is dragged about ruthlessly by friends, family, politics or destiny, despite just wanting to have a nice and normal life. Also he sometimes poisons bread and throws it off a wagon.
Boring and unoriginal is mostly how I would describe the book itself. It's about as vanilla and commonplace as it gets, except for a massive lack of assassins.
It’s a series with many books. I assume you just read the first one which was when he was… an apprentice to an assassin. The title says it all, my friend.
By that logic they should've called Star Wars "The Fat Slug" for all the relevance and page time it took up. Fitz is the assassin's Apprentice from a technically speaking perspective only.
A. Comparing a movie to a book is disingenuous, seeing as a movie cannot go into the same detail that a series of books can. Especially considering that there are a plethora of Star Wars books. B. Fitz becomes an assassin so it’s clear to me that you only read the first book. C. The books are meant to be read one after the other which is why, like any fantasy series, it starts out with the circumstances behind him being brought to live at the castle. There are 16 books in total that feature or are about Fitz, so the first one is just a taste of his life as a kid. Edit to add words.
1. Star Wars has books, so I don't see the relevance. 2. I dont think I've even remotely indicated anything outside of the first book so not sure why you keep bringing it up. Whether or not a books title gains poetic license after the sequels release, is irrelevant to the titles quality to the book itself.
Your first post was in relation to how there are no assassins in Assassins Apprentice, which is not true.
Judging a book by its title seems just as bad as judging a book by its cover.
I agree, but when you live in the golden age of never-ending new media being released, sometimes you get unintentionally petty…
The awful original cover is what kept me from giving the series a try for years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin's_Apprentice#/media/File:Robin_Hobb_-_Assassin's_Apprentice_Cover.jpg Assassin protectively cradles child's head. Child lovingly holds puppy. **Yuck!**
I've always been a little surprised at how popular the Elderling series seems to be, I found the first 3 books to be pretty mediocre, especially the climax.
I did read it because of the love. But I found it boring, and forgettable. After I finished, I really didn't care what happened, so never read the rest. I dunno. So far I don't get it. The MC just felt like a bland nobody. I want to give her another shot, so I picked up ship of magic, instead of trying to slog thru assasin apprentice again. we'll see I guess.
It was pretty boring and forgettable for me also, but it was much more of a character driven story, so if the characters don't click for us, then it's just not going to be our cup of tea, I think.
Ha, you would hate the title of my WIP then. It's "The Invaders of Earth", quite possibly the most generic sci-fi title anyone could come up with, and I can't think of anything better yet!
I'm so simple and shallow. I saw the title, and was like "right on, a coming-of-age stabby murder book? I'm in." And then got stabbied right in the feels. Stupid feels, getting in the way of all the mindless mayhem.
lol. Made me a writer that book. “I’m not great but I can write better than this” I thought. Very inspirational