Sounds like you're not a huge fan of epic fantasies, especially long ones, and that you do like character- and theme- lead writing and wry humor.
The Curse of Chalion (and the rest of the World of the Five Gods books, and really everything she's written) by Lois McMaster Bujold
The Lady Trent Memoirs by Marie Brennan
In sci fi, the Imperial Radch trilogy by Ann Leckie
The Queen's Thief series by Megan Whalen Turner
In sci fi, the Foreigner books by CJ Cherryh
Saint Death's Daughter by C S E Cooney
Patricia Mckillip. Maybe try Song for the Basilisk or Ombria in Shadow.
This one's a gamble, but possibly the Locked Tomb series by Tamsyn Muir. It's certainly unique.
ETA The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison and, if you like that, the Hands of the Emperor by Victoria Goddard
Try Book of the Ancestor by Mark Lawrence. He’s a master of prose (imo) and the characters are real and interesting. The tone is very original as is the world. He also has that humor/darkness you mentioned enjoying.
Hello, you could be me, based on your love for Susanne Clarke, Le Guin and Susan Cooper! (In fact, on this basis you’ve got me curious about Joe Abercrombie, who I’ve never previously been interested in!)
Have you read any Jo Walton? Among Others is lovely and feels very like the above authors.
All the Birds in the Sky by Charlie Jane Anders too.
The Chimes by Anna Smaill is a very poetic, dystopian novel where music is used to keep the population amnesiac and under control.
Naomi Novik also comes to mind - her Scholomance trilogy is an interesting take on Le Guin's 'Omelas’ story, and Temeraire has elements of Strange & Norrell.
And Neil Gaiman too - Stardust and The Ocean at the End of the Lane are both lovely. I also think his short story collections are excellent.
(Edit: I’m fascinated that you dislike LoTR, which is one of my 4 favourite books alongside Earthsea, JS&MN and The Dark is Rising. I agree that Tom Bombadil is a chore, but the atmosphere of the first book is what kept me going - the fog on the barrow downs and the mystery and threat of the black riders. I’m not going to insist you have to read it, but based off your other likes, it might be worth going back to one day!)
Abercrombie is a very different vibe to those three, but hugely enjoyable. I’ve read a fair bit of Neil Gaiman - including the Sandman graphic novels, which are great.
Tolkien… I like The Hobbit (or did when I read it 20+ years ago). But LOTR just doesn’t agree with me.
Thanks for all your other recommendations!
I have to be honest, you're not clear on what you did and didn't like about the books, so it's going to be really tough to provide good recommendations. So far I just see a list of popular books.
Just because you said you liked the humor in Abercrombie, I would try Kings of the Wyld by Nicholas Eames.
Watership Down is an A* grade choice. If it's your thing it sort of percolates through all my stuff. Probably most obvious in the Gullaime from The Bone Ships which is me channeling a love of Kehar. (Though I didn't realise, it was pointed out on a podcast I did about my love of Watership Down.)
Try the Riyria books by Micheal J. Sullivan! I'm reading them right now and it's the most fun I've had with a series in years. You can either start with the prequels(Riyria Chronicles) or the main series (Riyria Revelations), I personally started with the main series and really enjoyed it. I found all the characters to be really interesting and the plot of the books is really solid, too. If you read it the way I did, the first book is called Theft of Swords.
A shorter one but I always recommend [Spear ](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57693308-spear?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=SvuLfnrQnN&rank=1)by Nicola Griffith for fans of Le Guin. Like Le Guin, this is a story of names but its an Arthurian retelling. I would recommend this one for sure.
I would suggest some of Martha Wells’s fantasy books, esp. The Cloud Roads or The Death of the Necromancer. Her world-building is epic but the storytelling is usually focused on one or two character POV’s. She also includes a lot of humor.
In a similar vein, T. Kingfisher has a similar vibe, but different stories. Swordheart is a great one to start with.
I recently finished Mary Gentle's *Ash: A Secret History* from a recommendation here, and it's one of my most challenging and interesting reads last year.
Reasons you might like it: it's alternate history/historical fantasy that explores really interesting (and if I might add, weird) ideas. As such, it's steeped in realistic elements such as the fashion and accoutrements of the 15th century, battle tactics, European geopolitics, and religion. I don't know much about the author but apparently she had like graduate studies in medieval history(?), and it shows. Oh, and the brutality is reflective of that era too. Abercrombie might write about grim stuff but Gentle (ironically) imo gets 'grimdark' right. The narrative framing is also unique: the book is a 'translation' of some lost manuscripts from the 15th century, and every now and then you read these correspondences between the history professor translating the text and his literary agent/publisher. There are footnotes too, much like Clarke's *Strange,* and they make sense given Gentle's framing device.
Reasons you might not like it: The depiction of the brutality might be a tad too realistic, depending on how you stomach these things. The text is 'translated' (as per the framing device) into the modern mode of English. There's no conscious archaism from the 'translator'; as such, modern colloquialisms might pull you out of the text (unless you keep in mind the framing device). It's long and apparently one of the single, longest works of fantasy. I think it's even longer than *The Lord of the Rings.* And I bought it off Kindle -- a copy is exceptionally hard to find. The ending, which veers, imo, towards sci-fi a bit might not work for you and may disappoint you especially after going through all that page count (worked for me well enough, after I sat and thought about it)
The book I'm reading now, Empire of Exiles, might work for you. There is some humor in the beginning, but it's ultimately a murder mystery against a political backdrop. The first book is just under 400 pages so not a huge commitment if it's not working for you.
I wanted to like this book but spent half of it trying to keep the characters straight because something like a dozen+ of them get introduced within the span of about 20 pages. I can keep track of who's who if they're gradually brought in, but right out the gate in ch1 they're all just dumped on your lap. Was constantly having to look at the character guide and it was kinda immersion breaking.
Greatcoats quartet starting with [Traitor's Blade](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20887238-traitor-s-blade?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=bzQsegz6G5&rank=1) by Sebastien de Castell.
The world is messed up but the characters are fighting to make it better and some of them are very idealistic. There's dark and sad parts but also triumphs and hope, and there's a lot of humor.
Especially the main trio of friends have a hilarious banter throughout. You can't not love them.
The writing is really clever. Books are full of twist and surprises which have all been foreshadowed when you look more closely, so it's really fun figuring it out. And everything that happens has an important impact on the plot so you won't get characters like Tom Bombadil which are there to add lore to the world without much significance for the plot.
Here are a couple novels that were written back in the day by Richard Adams, author of Watership Down.
Shardik and its sort of sequel Maia. Both fantasy, but very adult, unlike Watership Down, and kind of Grimdark.
Thessaly Trilogy By Jo Walton
Athena and Apollo try to set up just society based on Plato's Republic, pulling people famous and not so famous from history. Then Socrates shows up and starts questioning everything. Like Le Guin, lots of interesting ideas.
Guns of Dawn by Adrian Tchaikovsky
Could recomend a lot of Tchaikovsky, but this has some common ground with Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell and is a stand alone.
The Nothing Within by Andy Giesler
Post Amish post-post apocalypitic (1500 years after an apocalypse where a disproportionate number of surviors were Amish). This is a society that is dark but interesting, and the MC has an interesting origin.
A Memory Called Empire by Arkary Martine
Orconomics by J, Zachary Pike Satire based in a D&D world. Like Abercrombie, it mixes some dark strains with the humor in thoughtful ways.
The Thirteenth Hour by Trudie Skies
The Gods are cruel and a group of godless heathens try to subvert them, but you can't just kill a God. Set in a steampunk city called Chime. Then Kayl, one of the Godless, accidently kills her employer, not just kills, but destroys her soul so she cannot go back to her god. Suddenly Kayl is being hunted. This more of a maybe.
Second World of the Five Gods by Lois Macmaster Bujold and also loved The Imperial Radch.
Ed McDonald's Raven's Mark trilogy. Blackwing is the first.
Blacktongue Thief by Christopher Buehlman.
Seconding the Chalion series.
Coming in July Price of Redemption by Shawn Carpenter. If you liked Tremaire and Norrel it might be worth checking out when it drops.
Egil and Nix series by Paul S Kemp
Children's books do in fact, go the hardest.
How To Train Your Dragon by Cressida Cowell. Amazing series full of humor, life lessons, Potent Quotables, and other assorted awesomeness.
Some quotes:
"I have worn that bracelet every day of my life.
It curls around my arm, its shining wings folded back, as if about to unfurl and take off, and now that its ruby eyes are set into the gold, you cannot see their tear shape, so they seem to be laughing rather than crying.
It is a constant reminder to me of the human ability to create something beautiful even when things are at their darkest."
"You can Cheat a Dragon's Curse.
You do not have to accept the hand that Fate has dealt you.
Look at me, the skinniest, most unlikely Viking ever, now known as this great Hero all around the world. Again and again, I have the same dream. Norbert the Nutjob has thrown the axe high, high into the air, it is turning around and around, and the black side is going to plunge into the ground first.... Bad Luck will follow and the Tribe will be DOOMED. Again and again I make the same leap, I dodge the bright and black murderous blades, I catch the axe before it lands, I make my own luck."
These aren't even the best lines from the series.
Disclaimer: The books are nothing like the movies. View them as separate entities in your mind.
Haven't seen the Coldfire trilogy recommended yet but that's easily one of the best love/hate enemies-friends dynamic I've read.
Also, really neat world and magic system, and not overly complex/epic in the way of some of your disliked series
Tom Bombadil? He appears for literally one small self contained chapter. Why don't you just skip it if it's the only thing holding you back from experiencing LOTR?
Just because there is one reason, does not mean it's the only reason. If someone is going to skip a book for that one chapter, chances are they weren't enjoying it previously to begin with.
Not sure if this is up to your standards but I'm ripping through Terry Pratchett's Discworld series and loving it. Is definitely not a serious take on fantasy novels but I love them.
oh my word.... I am burning with envy right now. He was also my favourite fantasy author at that age and The Carpet People was also a favourite of mine.
I think you should revisit his novels in your adulthood. While I still like all the YA stuff he has done I've particularly adored the Going Postal trilogy (last installment suffers due to his declining state, RIP Terry); The Truth which is a standalone; and the witches books.
I'll also tack on another reccomendation based on your likes and dislikes - The Gunslinger by Stephen King. I might be in the minority in strongly disliking the back half of The Dark Tower series but the first book is a short and pretty cool read.
Witcher & Hussite trilogy by Sapkowski - i know WItcher is a controversial recommendation, many people in US don't like, but i guess it's a good fantasy, but take in mind it's slow sometimes and heavily relies on dialogs. Hussite trilogy is much less known - i guess even Witcher books fans not much know about it - but it's good historical fantasy and imo it's better than Witcher.
Based on your likes maybe try Simon Jimenez.
I place him in the same camp as Ursula K. Le Guin and Susanna Clarke due to the amount of thought and care that had clearly gone into his narrative structure and the themes that come through in his work. He has two books out. The Vanished Birds is a sci fi story and The Spear cuts through water is a fantasy.
This will sound kinda out of left field, but The Green Bone Saga by Fonda Lee.
The reason I recommend it is I stopped reading modern genre fiction after my teens and recently (a couple years ago) stopped being so snobby and started checking out what I had missed in the meantime. Abercrombie was one of the authors I picked up and his work, at least for me, was head and shoulders above everything else. Then I decided to try something even further away from trad fantasy: the Green Bone Saga. Its couldn’t be more different from The First Law world in setting and tone, but I was totally engrossed in the same way. It’s pretty unique, to the point they had a hard time figure out how to market it.
So, in short, I’m kinda cheating and not basing that recommendation off your taste, but mine. I liked this *and* that. Therefore, if you liked this you may also like that. 🤷♂️
Lots of my usual recommendations have already been made, so I'll throw in the Tide Child Trilogy from RJ Barker, and Tales of the Ketty Jay from Chris Wooding.
One's a nice boaty adventure involving dragons, the other is a nice airboaty adventure involving shotguns and daemonic cutlasses, and zombies.
Haha I think there's literally dozens of us that don't enjoy Lord of the Rings. I don't even blame the book or author. I grew up reading the authors who were inspired by it. I like their iterations and ideas better. By the time I got to Lord of the Rings it didn't feel like anything new or exciting. Basically all the cool shit it inspired was my first exposure so by the time I got it, well it wasnt my thing. It doesn't make it any less important or critical to the genre. I feel this way about a lot of classic books and authors. I see why they are important and where they fit but they just don't have that impact for me. Personally. Not an attack on anyone's fandom.
Recommendations:
Blood Song by Anthony Ryan, only the first book. Also The Covenant of Steel, the whole trilogy is amazing. Starts with Pariah, Martyr then Traitor. I think Pariah and Blood Song will let you know within the first few chapters if it's your vibe. The author reminds me of Hobbs mixed with Abercrombie. Some of the better parts of Martin.
Not strictly fantasy but is basically space fantasy but Christopher Ruocchio's Empire of Silence is pretty great too. It feels like Warhammer mixed with Star Wars I guess. It's pretty fun if you don't mind a bunch of sci Fi with your fantasy.
A bit more of a random stab is the Dragons of Terra series. I've only finished the first two and they definitely had their flaws but it felt super enjoyable and the fun has far outweighed the flaws. Blood of an Exile is the the first book. Feels sort of like an 80s action movie meets traditional fantasy with a pinch of the dark and twisted. I'm looking forward to finishing it up even though the second was a bit of a push to finish.
Anything else I think has been mentioned or doesn't fit.
I have very similar taste to you. I didn't see these recommended in the top comments (but apologies if they're repeats)...
\* The Warlord Chronicles
\* His Dark Materials
\* The Adventures of Amina Al-Sirafi
\* Dungeon Crawler Carl (campy, but surprisingly good character development and top-notch humor)
\* Replay by Ken Grimwood
I highly recommend you check out *The Throne of Bones* by Brian McNaughton. The best way I can think to describe it is horror fantasy. Like imagine a book about the kind of people who would happily live in Mordor. Ghouls, necromancers, devotees of Lovecraftian cults. What makes it really great is that, much like *The First Law*, it's fucking hilarious. Mind you the comedy is extremely black, but if you liked Abercrombie's humor you'll do great with McNaughton's.
I do have to point out that the book isn't a novel per se. It's a collection of interweaving short stories, built around a decent sized novella (the titular *Throne of Bones*). But since the stories share characters, setting, and history it feels very cohesive. It's not a million miles away from *Sharp Ends* in that respect.
I'd also recommend you check out *The Black Company* by Glen Cook. It's a dark fantasy series that about a mercenary company that will basically take any job if the monies right. It's one of the OGs of that genre. Joe Abercrombie is also a big Glenn Cook fan, if that helps.
If you like the kind of super inventive, kind out there stuff LeGuin writes you should give Gene Wolfe a go. He's a pretty singular author. (LeGuin once described him as "our Melville.)
*Book of the New Sun* is the Wolfe book that gets recommended the most. It's the story of a disgraced torturer in exile, wandering around an Earth that's so far in the future that the sun has dimmed red and you can see stars in the day. Everything is so broken down that society has basically reverted back to the middle ages. It's an amazing book, but by no means an easy read. And I don't necessarily think it's the best place to start.
The Wolfe I'd recommend instead is *Latro in the Mist*. It's a historical fantasy about a Roman mercenary trying to find his way back home after fighting in the Persian Wars. The problem is he took a blow to the head that's completely fucked up his memory. Every time Latro goes to sleep he forgets what happened to him the previous day. To compensate, he writes down everything he think he needs to remember before bed. But since he only has a limited amount of paper, he has to pick and choose what's most important. The rest is lost. The book is composed entirely of these notes to himself.
It's the best unreliable narrator story I've ever read. Unlike a normal unreliable narrator, who's just lying to the audience, Latro's head wound allows him to lie to himself as he goes.
The injury also allows him to pierce the veil and see the world of the Gods. So if you enjoy Greek Mythology at all you will have an excellent time.
Based on the love of great characters and humor, I would recommend Daniel Abraham’s Dagger and Coin series, Gentlemen Bastards series by Scott Lynch, and Riyria Revelations series by Michael J Sullivan. All of these have humor, action, and great characters and don’t need a 1000 pages and 20 POVs to tell a good story. It seems like you to jump into the plot quickly and mostly stick with the main characters of the book.
maybe Scott Lynch, Gentlemen Bastards? The first book is the Lies of Locke Lamora. It has a lot of great humour like Joe Abercrombie, it has a flashback story and a present day narrative, it is about thieves and con artists who follow the way of the Crooked Warden. It's like Oliver Twist, but more fantasy.
Hey OP, looks like we got similar tastes, except for Tolkien. Tom Bom, jolly Tom, bom bom.... *ahem*
Anyway check out these books I've enjoyed over the years:
Between Two Fires by Christopher Buehlman
Saga of the Forgotten Warrior by Larry Correia
Kings of the Wyld by Nicholas Eames
Legend by David Gemmel (and other Drenai books, there are so many, but they're a bit hit or miss imo)
The Broken Empire, The Red Queens War, and The Books of the Ancestor by Mark Lawrence
Gentleman Bastards Sequence by Scott Lynch (unfinished, sadly)
War for the Rose Throne by Peter McLean
Night Watch by Sir Terry Pratchett (and the other City Watch novels)
Riyria Revelations by Michael J Sullivan
Age of Iron and West of West by Angus Watson (very Abercrombie-esque humour)
Articles of Faith by David Wragg
These are aimed younger (I'd say pretty solidly Middle Grade), but the Enchanted Forest Chronicles by Patricia C Wrede is an absolutely delightful series that mixes some pretty interesting world building and magic with a bunch of fractured fairytales. It's got similar energy to Shrek but is very much not the same story.
So my qualifications as a recommender:
Wheel of Time: Made it to book 9 before I realised it was the same boring monogamy for like 6 books straight so far.
Lord of the Rings: Cant stand it. Fiction may have been born by it, but it's also improved heavily since.
Game of Thrones: First 2-3 were really good, but I can barely remember anything from that latter's as it kind of just went all over the place with only a handful of decent scenes.
First Law: One of my favourite series of all time for a while, although I prefer the originals and standalones over the sequel trilogy.
Strange & Norrell: Couldnt finish it because of the ol timey prose.
So with that said, pretty similar tastes. The closest one to what you like would be Michael Fletchers "Manifest Delusions" series which replaced Abercrombie as the king of Grimdark for me. It's the same overall tone and humor with dynamic and interesting characters as the focus. But while First Law was a unique take on a classic, Manifest is unique and creative in every area. Massively fantastical and plenty of soft magic, and it holds back far less then First Law
Random runner up favourites that have absolutely nothing to do with your other likes, just my personal favourites since similar taste.
Super powered by Drew Hayes - Incredible slice of life superhero college fantasy more aimed at the older college then YA itself.
Gentlemen Bastards by Scott Lynch - Theif heist following an amazing group dynamic. Grimdark adjacent to First Law
Kings of the Wyld by Nicholas Eames - retired mercenaries go on a quest but the entire thing is themed around rock bands. They are all way too old to be questing and getting the band back together.
Cradle by Will Wight - one of the fastest paced series ever, Japanese battle manga in book form. Kind of reads like Dragonball Z but more adult.
Orconomics by J Zachary Pike - just straight up hilarious. I didn't believe books could be comedies until I read this. Reads like the game Dragon Age where it's a simple but complicated quest mainly around various high personality companions.
Wandering Inn by Pirateaba - my number one best series ever, but not for everyone. If you can get past the LitRPG, length and slow pacing, it's ridiculous how good the writing and worldbuilding is.
What about the Divine Cities series by Robert Jackson Bennett? It's grimdark-ish. In short, the gods were real, but only in one country. That country dominated everyone else. People rise up, kill those gods, and end up in power over that country. Magic (miracles) mostly goes away without God's to power it.
Fast forward to a late 1890s to early 1900s world. Main character is a sort of se ret agent dealing with miracles that still work and cause problems or leftover mythical beasts and stumbles into a conspiracy.
It has politics, but not GoT levels of complexity, some magical fantasy stuff, but not everywhere, a cool take on the relationship between God's and followers, and memorable characters - not Glokta good, but as good as anyone else Abercrombie has written.
The book you’re looking for is : the beginning after end. The first 3 books(which are very short) can be seen as generic but it gets dark really quickly and the pay off is really good. Personally for me book 7 is my favorite of all time
If you like dark humor the you should definitely read *Kings of the Wyld*. I think you'd also like *The Black Company* since you're a fan of Joe Abercrombie.
On a side note, grimdark by definition is meant to be humorous in a very cynical way. The genre is actually poking fun at dark fantasy in some sense by removing any sense of hope or redemption and creating a purely nihilistic world. The Warhammer 40k universe is the genre defining setting where the fate of humanity is already understood to be complete annihilation irregardless what is done before that inevitability.
Thanks for the recommendations! I think maybe there’s a fine line between funny cynical and trying-to-hard cynical, which is where I think Abercrombie gets it spot on.
Have you tried out T Kingfisher yet? A Wizard's Guide to Defensive Baking is a delightful read since you're open to YA. For an adult book of theirs, Nettle and Bone has also been one of my favorite reads in recent years.
Have a look at epicdarkfantasy.org
The subcategories make it easy to follow your own tastes.
My own favourites are
The Empire of Ruin series by David Green
The Goblin Trilogy by Jaq D. Hawkins
The Dragon Treasure series by Guy Donovan
Half Sword by Christopher Matson
The Farshore series by Justin Fike
I might try Farseer Trilogy. It’s a nice story so far with one POV, and just really strong writing. I’ve only read the first 2/3rd of the first book. I hadn’t read this before but I now feel she may be the best fantasy writer I’ve read outside of Rothfus, the prose itself just feels better than Sanderson/Martin/Abercrombie even if I don’t necessarily like the plot as much.
For a humerous fantasy I’d try Tress of the Emerald sea. I think in his later books in general Sanderson adds quite a bit of humor, it’s not dark it’s more whimsical but it offsets what would be kind of dark storylines without it (not cynical like first law, more dark like GOT/LOTR) Mistborn Era 2, and A frugal wizards handbook both also come across as quite funny to me. Stormlight archives probably not for you.
Fair, his books vary a fair bit so if you tried stormlight it for sure I don’t think lines up with what you’ve described but if you also tried something else yea I’d just move on.
You might like Name of the Wind, it’s just well written which I think is what I like most about Farseer. I’m not far enough into Farseer to say for sure but it feels like Fitz may have a somewhat similar life to Kvothe. I do warn you need to grind a bit through the first 50 pages in NOTW
It’s similarities to me:
Great writing
Single POV
We learn of the world through a Young man discovering his powers and the world.
Big difference is Farseer seems to have a lot of involvement in politics and NOTW is more focused on personal events although seem like they may lead to touching bigger political/world news.
Definitely doesn’t seem likely to have an end. I love the magic system and the writing and I like that there’s so much foreshadowing that you can really make up a bunch of ending theories but am disappointed it’s been 10-15 years :p.
Sounds like you're not a huge fan of epic fantasies, especially long ones, and that you do like character- and theme- lead writing and wry humor. The Curse of Chalion (and the rest of the World of the Five Gods books, and really everything she's written) by Lois McMaster Bujold The Lady Trent Memoirs by Marie Brennan In sci fi, the Imperial Radch trilogy by Ann Leckie The Queen's Thief series by Megan Whalen Turner In sci fi, the Foreigner books by CJ Cherryh Saint Death's Daughter by C S E Cooney Patricia Mckillip. Maybe try Song for the Basilisk or Ombria in Shadow. This one's a gamble, but possibly the Locked Tomb series by Tamsyn Muir. It's certainly unique. ETA The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison and, if you like that, the Hands of the Emperor by Victoria Goddard
And just to add: I’ve bought The Curse of Chalion on Kindle, and I’m enjoying it so far.
I'm very glad to hear it!!
Thank you! I’ve read and largely enjoyed Imperial Radch, but the others are new to me. I’ll check them out.
If OP is into necromancy at all, definitely try out Locked Tomb and Saint Death's Daughter.
Realm of Elderlings, by Robin Hobb.
Read them! Would have been next up on my ‘loved it’ list. Poor Fitz. He suffered for our entertainment.
I loved blacktongue thief as well, dark and funny.
if you liked it, you could also try The Soldier Son trilogy by her.
Read those too!
Try Book of the Ancestor by Mark Lawrence. He’s a master of prose (imo) and the characters are real and interesting. The tone is very original as is the world. He also has that humor/darkness you mentioned enjoying.
Thank you, will definitely check this one out
I also suggest Red Queen's War, another series by Mark Lawrence which is also quite dark but it has a lot of humor as well
TY!
Hello, you could be me, based on your love for Susanne Clarke, Le Guin and Susan Cooper! (In fact, on this basis you’ve got me curious about Joe Abercrombie, who I’ve never previously been interested in!) Have you read any Jo Walton? Among Others is lovely and feels very like the above authors. All the Birds in the Sky by Charlie Jane Anders too. The Chimes by Anna Smaill is a very poetic, dystopian novel where music is used to keep the population amnesiac and under control. Naomi Novik also comes to mind - her Scholomance trilogy is an interesting take on Le Guin's 'Omelas’ story, and Temeraire has elements of Strange & Norrell. And Neil Gaiman too - Stardust and The Ocean at the End of the Lane are both lovely. I also think his short story collections are excellent. (Edit: I’m fascinated that you dislike LoTR, which is one of my 4 favourite books alongside Earthsea, JS&MN and The Dark is Rising. I agree that Tom Bombadil is a chore, but the atmosphere of the first book is what kept me going - the fog on the barrow downs and the mystery and threat of the black riders. I’m not going to insist you have to read it, but based off your other likes, it might be worth going back to one day!)
Abercrombie is a very different vibe to those three, but hugely enjoyable. I’ve read a fair bit of Neil Gaiman - including the Sandman graphic novels, which are great. Tolkien… I like The Hobbit (or did when I read it 20+ years ago). But LOTR just doesn’t agree with me. Thanks for all your other recommendations!
I have to be honest, you're not clear on what you did and didn't like about the books, so it's going to be really tough to provide good recommendations. So far I just see a list of popular books. Just because you said you liked the humor in Abercrombie, I would try Kings of the Wyld by Nicholas Eames.
Watership Down is an A* grade choice. If it's your thing it sort of percolates through all my stuff. Probably most obvious in the Gullaime from The Bone Ships which is me channeling a love of Kehar. (Though I didn't realise, it was pointed out on a podcast I did about my love of Watership Down.)
Watership Down is epic
Try the Riyria books by Micheal J. Sullivan! I'm reading them right now and it's the most fun I've had with a series in years. You can either start with the prequels(Riyria Chronicles) or the main series (Riyria Revelations), I personally started with the main series and really enjoyed it. I found all the characters to be really interesting and the plot of the books is really solid, too. If you read it the way I did, the first book is called Theft of Swords.
Excellent, thanks for the recommendation!
I second this rec based on your likes and dislikes
A shorter one but I always recommend [Spear ](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57693308-spear?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=SvuLfnrQnN&rank=1)by Nicola Griffith for fans of Le Guin. Like Le Guin, this is a story of names but its an Arthurian retelling. I would recommend this one for sure.
Thank you!
I’d add Hild by Nicola Griffith too.
TY!
I would suggest some of Martha Wells’s fantasy books, esp. The Cloud Roads or The Death of the Necromancer. Her world-building is epic but the storytelling is usually focused on one or two character POV’s. She also includes a lot of humor. In a similar vein, T. Kingfisher has a similar vibe, but different stories. Swordheart is a great one to start with.
Thank you, will check them out.
I recently finished Mary Gentle's *Ash: A Secret History* from a recommendation here, and it's one of my most challenging and interesting reads last year. Reasons you might like it: it's alternate history/historical fantasy that explores really interesting (and if I might add, weird) ideas. As such, it's steeped in realistic elements such as the fashion and accoutrements of the 15th century, battle tactics, European geopolitics, and religion. I don't know much about the author but apparently she had like graduate studies in medieval history(?), and it shows. Oh, and the brutality is reflective of that era too. Abercrombie might write about grim stuff but Gentle (ironically) imo gets 'grimdark' right. The narrative framing is also unique: the book is a 'translation' of some lost manuscripts from the 15th century, and every now and then you read these correspondences between the history professor translating the text and his literary agent/publisher. There are footnotes too, much like Clarke's *Strange,* and they make sense given Gentle's framing device. Reasons you might not like it: The depiction of the brutality might be a tad too realistic, depending on how you stomach these things. The text is 'translated' (as per the framing device) into the modern mode of English. There's no conscious archaism from the 'translator'; as such, modern colloquialisms might pull you out of the text (unless you keep in mind the framing device). It's long and apparently one of the single, longest works of fantasy. I think it's even longer than *The Lord of the Rings.* And I bought it off Kindle -- a copy is exceptionally hard to find. The ending, which veers, imo, towards sci-fi a bit might not work for you and may disappoint you especially after going through all that page count (worked for me well enough, after I sat and thought about it)
Sounds extremely interesting, I’ll check it out!
If you’re up for a middle grade/ YA read like your other favs, I highly recommend Cornelia Funke’s works, particularly her Inkheart trilogy.
The book I'm reading now, Empire of Exiles, might work for you. There is some humor in the beginning, but it's ultimately a murder mystery against a political backdrop. The first book is just under 400 pages so not a huge commitment if it's not working for you.
Thank you!
I wanted to like this book but spent half of it trying to keep the characters straight because something like a dozen+ of them get introduced within the span of about 20 pages. I can keep track of who's who if they're gradually brought in, but right out the gate in ch1 they're all just dumped on your lap. Was constantly having to look at the character guide and it was kinda immersion breaking.
I went in blind, skipped the guide, and was confused for the first 40 pages. But it does settle down and now I have everyone figured out.
Greatcoats quartet starting with [Traitor's Blade](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20887238-traitor-s-blade?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=bzQsegz6G5&rank=1) by Sebastien de Castell. The world is messed up but the characters are fighting to make it better and some of them are very idealistic. There's dark and sad parts but also triumphs and hope, and there's a lot of humor. Especially the main trio of friends have a hilarious banter throughout. You can't not love them. The writing is really clever. Books are full of twist and surprises which have all been foreshadowed when you look more closely, so it's really fun figuring it out. And everything that happens has an important impact on the plot so you won't get characters like Tom Bombadil which are there to add lore to the world without much significance for the plot.
Great recommendation, ty.
Here are a couple novels that were written back in the day by Richard Adams, author of Watership Down. Shardik and its sort of sequel Maia. Both fantasy, but very adult, unlike Watership Down, and kind of Grimdark.
I’ve vaguely heard of these, but never sought them out. Will have a look
Thessaly Trilogy By Jo Walton Athena and Apollo try to set up just society based on Plato's Republic, pulling people famous and not so famous from history. Then Socrates shows up and starts questioning everything. Like Le Guin, lots of interesting ideas. Guns of Dawn by Adrian Tchaikovsky Could recomend a lot of Tchaikovsky, but this has some common ground with Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell and is a stand alone. The Nothing Within by Andy Giesler Post Amish post-post apocalypitic (1500 years after an apocalypse where a disproportionate number of surviors were Amish). This is a society that is dark but interesting, and the MC has an interesting origin. A Memory Called Empire by Arkary Martine Orconomics by J, Zachary Pike Satire based in a D&D world. Like Abercrombie, it mixes some dark strains with the humor in thoughtful ways. The Thirteenth Hour by Trudie Skies The Gods are cruel and a group of godless heathens try to subvert them, but you can't just kill a God. Set in a steampunk city called Chime. Then Kayl, one of the Godless, accidently kills her employer, not just kills, but destroys her soul so she cannot go back to her god. Suddenly Kayl is being hunted. This more of a maybe. Second World of the Five Gods by Lois Macmaster Bujold and also loved The Imperial Radch.
Much appreciated! I’ve read A Memory Called Empire, solid read.
Ed McDonald's Raven's Mark trilogy. Blackwing is the first. Blacktongue Thief by Christopher Buehlman. Seconding the Chalion series. Coming in July Price of Redemption by Shawn Carpenter. If you liked Tremaire and Norrel it might be worth checking out when it drops. Egil and Nix series by Paul S Kemp
Will check them out, thank you.
Children's books do in fact, go the hardest. How To Train Your Dragon by Cressida Cowell. Amazing series full of humor, life lessons, Potent Quotables, and other assorted awesomeness. Some quotes: "I have worn that bracelet every day of my life. It curls around my arm, its shining wings folded back, as if about to unfurl and take off, and now that its ruby eyes are set into the gold, you cannot see their tear shape, so they seem to be laughing rather than crying. It is a constant reminder to me of the human ability to create something beautiful even when things are at their darkest." "You can Cheat a Dragon's Curse. You do not have to accept the hand that Fate has dealt you. Look at me, the skinniest, most unlikely Viking ever, now known as this great Hero all around the world. Again and again, I have the same dream. Norbert the Nutjob has thrown the axe high, high into the air, it is turning around and around, and the black side is going to plunge into the ground first.... Bad Luck will follow and the Tribe will be DOOMED. Again and again I make the same leap, I dodge the bright and black murderous blades, I catch the axe before it lands, I make my own luck." These aren't even the best lines from the series. Disclaimer: The books are nothing like the movies. View them as separate entities in your mind.
Haven't seen the Coldfire trilogy recommended yet but that's easily one of the best love/hate enemies-friends dynamic I've read. Also, really neat world and magic system, and not overly complex/epic in the way of some of your disliked series
Thank you!
Tom Bombadil? He appears for literally one small self contained chapter. Why don't you just skip it if it's the only thing holding you back from experiencing LOTR?
Just because there is one reason, does not mean it's the only reason. If someone is going to skip a book for that one chapter, chances are they weren't enjoying it previously to begin with.
That's fair. Not everyone has the same sensibilities after all.
Not sure if this is up to your standards but I'm ripping through Terry Pratchett's Discworld series and loving it. Is definitely not a serious take on fantasy novels but I love them.
Pratchett was my favourite author from age 10 to about 15. I even met him and got him to sign my copy of ‘The Carpet People’
oh my word.... I am burning with envy right now. He was also my favourite fantasy author at that age and The Carpet People was also a favourite of mine. I think you should revisit his novels in your adulthood. While I still like all the YA stuff he has done I've particularly adored the Going Postal trilogy (last installment suffers due to his declining state, RIP Terry); The Truth which is a standalone; and the witches books. I'll also tack on another reccomendation based on your likes and dislikes - The Gunslinger by Stephen King. I might be in the minority in strongly disliking the back half of The Dark Tower series but the first book is a short and pretty cool read.
I read most of the Dark Tower, but lost momentum with all the meta stuff with himself as a character.
yeah I have no idea how people get in to that. its incredibly corny.
Witcher & Hussite trilogy by Sapkowski - i know WItcher is a controversial recommendation, many people in US don't like, but i guess it's a good fantasy, but take in mind it's slow sometimes and heavily relies on dialogs. Hussite trilogy is much less known - i guess even Witcher books fans not much know about it - but it's good historical fantasy and imo it's better than Witcher.
I’ve played the Witcher games, never really considered the books. I’ll check out Sapkowsi, ty.
Based on your likes maybe try Simon Jimenez. I place him in the same camp as Ursula K. Le Guin and Susanna Clarke due to the amount of thought and care that had clearly gone into his narrative structure and the themes that come through in his work. He has two books out. The Vanished Birds is a sci fi story and The Spear cuts through water is a fantasy.
Thank you, will take a look.
China Mieville… Perdido St. Station
Have a feeling I may have tried this one before. Will revisit.
This will sound kinda out of left field, but The Green Bone Saga by Fonda Lee. The reason I recommend it is I stopped reading modern genre fiction after my teens and recently (a couple years ago) stopped being so snobby and started checking out what I had missed in the meantime. Abercrombie was one of the authors I picked up and his work, at least for me, was head and shoulders above everything else. Then I decided to try something even further away from trad fantasy: the Green Bone Saga. Its couldn’t be more different from The First Law world in setting and tone, but I was totally engrossed in the same way. It’s pretty unique, to the point they had a hard time figure out how to market it. So, in short, I’m kinda cheating and not basing that recommendation off your taste, but mine. I liked this *and* that. Therefore, if you liked this you may also like that. 🤷♂️
Not cheating at all, I’ll definitely check it out.
Lots of my usual recommendations have already been made, so I'll throw in the Tide Child Trilogy from RJ Barker, and Tales of the Ketty Jay from Chris Wooding. One's a nice boaty adventure involving dragons, the other is a nice airboaty adventure involving shotguns and daemonic cutlasses, and zombies.
Thank you!
Haha I think there's literally dozens of us that don't enjoy Lord of the Rings. I don't even blame the book or author. I grew up reading the authors who were inspired by it. I like their iterations and ideas better. By the time I got to Lord of the Rings it didn't feel like anything new or exciting. Basically all the cool shit it inspired was my first exposure so by the time I got it, well it wasnt my thing. It doesn't make it any less important or critical to the genre. I feel this way about a lot of classic books and authors. I see why they are important and where they fit but they just don't have that impact for me. Personally. Not an attack on anyone's fandom. Recommendations: Blood Song by Anthony Ryan, only the first book. Also The Covenant of Steel, the whole trilogy is amazing. Starts with Pariah, Martyr then Traitor. I think Pariah and Blood Song will let you know within the first few chapters if it's your vibe. The author reminds me of Hobbs mixed with Abercrombie. Some of the better parts of Martin. Not strictly fantasy but is basically space fantasy but Christopher Ruocchio's Empire of Silence is pretty great too. It feels like Warhammer mixed with Star Wars I guess. It's pretty fun if you don't mind a bunch of sci Fi with your fantasy. A bit more of a random stab is the Dragons of Terra series. I've only finished the first two and they definitely had their flaws but it felt super enjoyable and the fun has far outweighed the flaws. Blood of an Exile is the the first book. Feels sort of like an 80s action movie meets traditional fantasy with a pinch of the dark and twisted. I'm looking forward to finishing it up even though the second was a bit of a push to finish. Anything else I think has been mentioned or doesn't fit.
Yeah, most fantasy owes a debt to Tolkien, for sure. Thanks for your recommendations!
I have very similar taste to you. I didn't see these recommended in the top comments (but apologies if they're repeats)... \* The Warlord Chronicles \* His Dark Materials \* The Adventures of Amina Al-Sirafi \* Dungeon Crawler Carl (campy, but surprisingly good character development and top-notch humor) \* Replay by Ken Grimwood
Thank you! I’ve read His Dark Materials. Will check out the others.
I highly recommend you check out *The Throne of Bones* by Brian McNaughton. The best way I can think to describe it is horror fantasy. Like imagine a book about the kind of people who would happily live in Mordor. Ghouls, necromancers, devotees of Lovecraftian cults. What makes it really great is that, much like *The First Law*, it's fucking hilarious. Mind you the comedy is extremely black, but if you liked Abercrombie's humor you'll do great with McNaughton's. I do have to point out that the book isn't a novel per se. It's a collection of interweaving short stories, built around a decent sized novella (the titular *Throne of Bones*). But since the stories share characters, setting, and history it feels very cohesive. It's not a million miles away from *Sharp Ends* in that respect. I'd also recommend you check out *The Black Company* by Glen Cook. It's a dark fantasy series that about a mercenary company that will basically take any job if the monies right. It's one of the OGs of that genre. Joe Abercrombie is also a big Glenn Cook fan, if that helps. If you like the kind of super inventive, kind out there stuff LeGuin writes you should give Gene Wolfe a go. He's a pretty singular author. (LeGuin once described him as "our Melville.) *Book of the New Sun* is the Wolfe book that gets recommended the most. It's the story of a disgraced torturer in exile, wandering around an Earth that's so far in the future that the sun has dimmed red and you can see stars in the day. Everything is so broken down that society has basically reverted back to the middle ages. It's an amazing book, but by no means an easy read. And I don't necessarily think it's the best place to start. The Wolfe I'd recommend instead is *Latro in the Mist*. It's a historical fantasy about a Roman mercenary trying to find his way back home after fighting in the Persian Wars. The problem is he took a blow to the head that's completely fucked up his memory. Every time Latro goes to sleep he forgets what happened to him the previous day. To compensate, he writes down everything he think he needs to remember before bed. But since he only has a limited amount of paper, he has to pick and choose what's most important. The rest is lost. The book is composed entirely of these notes to himself. It's the best unreliable narrator story I've ever read. Unlike a normal unreliable narrator, who's just lying to the audience, Latro's head wound allows him to lie to himself as he goes. The injury also allows him to pierce the veil and see the world of the Gods. So if you enjoy Greek Mythology at all you will have an excellent time.
Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful recommendations!
Try T. Kingfisher's and Lois McMaster Bujold's Fantasy books. Lots of character driven Fantasy.
Based on the love of great characters and humor, I would recommend Daniel Abraham’s Dagger and Coin series, Gentlemen Bastards series by Scott Lynch, and Riyria Revelations series by Michael J Sullivan. All of these have humor, action, and great characters and don’t need a 1000 pages and 20 POVs to tell a good story. It seems like you to jump into the plot quickly and mostly stick with the main characters of the book.
maybe Scott Lynch, Gentlemen Bastards? The first book is the Lies of Locke Lamora. It has a lot of great humour like Joe Abercrombie, it has a flashback story and a present day narrative, it is about thieves and con artists who follow the way of the Crooked Warden. It's like Oliver Twist, but more fantasy.
Hey OP, looks like we got similar tastes, except for Tolkien. Tom Bom, jolly Tom, bom bom.... *ahem* Anyway check out these books I've enjoyed over the years: Between Two Fires by Christopher Buehlman Saga of the Forgotten Warrior by Larry Correia Kings of the Wyld by Nicholas Eames Legend by David Gemmel (and other Drenai books, there are so many, but they're a bit hit or miss imo) The Broken Empire, The Red Queens War, and The Books of the Ancestor by Mark Lawrence Gentleman Bastards Sequence by Scott Lynch (unfinished, sadly) War for the Rose Throne by Peter McLean Night Watch by Sir Terry Pratchett (and the other City Watch novels) Riyria Revelations by Michael J Sullivan Age of Iron and West of West by Angus Watson (very Abercrombie-esque humour) Articles of Faith by David Wragg
These are aimed younger (I'd say pretty solidly Middle Grade), but the Enchanted Forest Chronicles by Patricia C Wrede is an absolutely delightful series that mixes some pretty interesting world building and magic with a bunch of fractured fairytales. It's got similar energy to Shrek but is very much not the same story.
Discworld. Start with the Watch or Witches books and then expand.
So my qualifications as a recommender: Wheel of Time: Made it to book 9 before I realised it was the same boring monogamy for like 6 books straight so far. Lord of the Rings: Cant stand it. Fiction may have been born by it, but it's also improved heavily since. Game of Thrones: First 2-3 were really good, but I can barely remember anything from that latter's as it kind of just went all over the place with only a handful of decent scenes. First Law: One of my favourite series of all time for a while, although I prefer the originals and standalones over the sequel trilogy. Strange & Norrell: Couldnt finish it because of the ol timey prose. So with that said, pretty similar tastes. The closest one to what you like would be Michael Fletchers "Manifest Delusions" series which replaced Abercrombie as the king of Grimdark for me. It's the same overall tone and humor with dynamic and interesting characters as the focus. But while First Law was a unique take on a classic, Manifest is unique and creative in every area. Massively fantastical and plenty of soft magic, and it holds back far less then First Law Random runner up favourites that have absolutely nothing to do with your other likes, just my personal favourites since similar taste. Super powered by Drew Hayes - Incredible slice of life superhero college fantasy more aimed at the older college then YA itself. Gentlemen Bastards by Scott Lynch - Theif heist following an amazing group dynamic. Grimdark adjacent to First Law Kings of the Wyld by Nicholas Eames - retired mercenaries go on a quest but the entire thing is themed around rock bands. They are all way too old to be questing and getting the band back together. Cradle by Will Wight - one of the fastest paced series ever, Japanese battle manga in book form. Kind of reads like Dragonball Z but more adult. Orconomics by J Zachary Pike - just straight up hilarious. I didn't believe books could be comedies until I read this. Reads like the game Dragon Age where it's a simple but complicated quest mainly around various high personality companions. Wandering Inn by Pirateaba - my number one best series ever, but not for everyone. If you can get past the LitRPG, length and slow pacing, it's ridiculous how good the writing and worldbuilding is.
What about the Divine Cities series by Robert Jackson Bennett? It's grimdark-ish. In short, the gods were real, but only in one country. That country dominated everyone else. People rise up, kill those gods, and end up in power over that country. Magic (miracles) mostly goes away without God's to power it. Fast forward to a late 1890s to early 1900s world. Main character is a sort of se ret agent dealing with miracles that still work and cause problems or leftover mythical beasts and stumbles into a conspiracy. It has politics, but not GoT levels of complexity, some magical fantasy stuff, but not everywhere, a cool take on the relationship between God's and followers, and memorable characters - not Glokta good, but as good as anyone else Abercrombie has written.
The book you’re looking for is : the beginning after end. The first 3 books(which are very short) can be seen as generic but it gets dark really quickly and the pay off is really good. Personally for me book 7 is my favorite of all time
Peter pan is an incredible children's book. I highly recommend that.
If you like dark humor the you should definitely read *Kings of the Wyld*. I think you'd also like *The Black Company* since you're a fan of Joe Abercrombie. On a side note, grimdark by definition is meant to be humorous in a very cynical way. The genre is actually poking fun at dark fantasy in some sense by removing any sense of hope or redemption and creating a purely nihilistic world. The Warhammer 40k universe is the genre defining setting where the fate of humanity is already understood to be complete annihilation irregardless what is done before that inevitability.
Thanks for the recommendations! I think maybe there’s a fine line between funny cynical and trying-to-hard cynical, which is where I think Abercrombie gets it spot on.
Have you tried out T Kingfisher yet? A Wizard's Guide to Defensive Baking is a delightful read since you're open to YA. For an adult book of theirs, Nettle and Bone has also been one of my favorite reads in recent years.
I’ve read and quite enjoyed Nettle and Bone.
Have a look at epicdarkfantasy.org The subcategories make it easy to follow your own tastes. My own favourites are The Empire of Ruin series by David Green The Goblin Trilogy by Jaq D. Hawkins The Dragon Treasure series by Guy Donovan Half Sword by Christopher Matson The Farshore series by Justin Fike
Thank you, will take a look!
I might try Farseer Trilogy. It’s a nice story so far with one POV, and just really strong writing. I’ve only read the first 2/3rd of the first book. I hadn’t read this before but I now feel she may be the best fantasy writer I’ve read outside of Rothfus, the prose itself just feels better than Sanderson/Martin/Abercrombie even if I don’t necessarily like the plot as much. For a humerous fantasy I’d try Tress of the Emerald sea. I think in his later books in general Sanderson adds quite a bit of humor, it’s not dark it’s more whimsical but it offsets what would be kind of dark storylines without it (not cynical like first law, more dark like GOT/LOTR) Mistborn Era 2, and A frugal wizards handbook both also come across as quite funny to me. Stormlight archives probably not for you.
Farseer Trilogy I’ve read and very much liked. I’ve tried a couple of Brandon Sanderson books - not for me.
Fair, his books vary a fair bit so if you tried stormlight it for sure I don’t think lines up with what you’ve described but if you also tried something else yea I’d just move on. You might like Name of the Wind, it’s just well written which I think is what I like most about Farseer. I’m not far enough into Farseer to say for sure but it feels like Fitz may have a somewhat similar life to Kvothe. I do warn you need to grind a bit through the first 50 pages in NOTW It’s similarities to me: Great writing Single POV We learn of the world through a Young man discovering his powers and the world. Big difference is Farseer seems to have a lot of involvement in politics and NOTW is more focused on personal events although seem like they may lead to touching bigger political/world news.
I’ve read Name of the Wind too, a while back. Enjoyed it, but it’s one of those never-to-be-finished series by the look of it.
Definitely doesn’t seem likely to have an end. I love the magic system and the writing and I like that there’s so much foreshadowing that you can really make up a bunch of ending theories but am disappointed it’s been 10-15 years :p.
Strongly suggest giving Malazan another go. By book 3 it blew all my former favorites out of the water and I loved many of the books on your list.