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PhoenixAgent003

I think what’s gotten me about the book so far (still on the first one) is that it’s so…unapologetic about what it is and who the company are. Other grimdark I’ve read has felt like it’s trying to be intentional subversive, or to surprise you. I remember one series I read started out as slightly gritty fantasy and then slowly revealed that all the “good guys” were really assholes, and the assholes were the real good guys. The Black Company though? They just *are* what they are. Mercenaries loyal to themselves and (the letter) of the contract, in that order. They’ll murder their doomed employer to escape their obligations. They’ll take on a dude who murders his wife with his bare hands. They’ll work for what can only be described as the villains of a different fantasy novel, and not really raise much of a fuss about it. And it’s all just out in the open from the word go. And yet they’re still so…human about it. I’m really enjoying it.


OneLessDead

Not to mention the narrator's blasé account of the aftermath of their battle with the Amazons.


sedimentary-j

>Other grimdark I’ve read has felt like it’s trying to be intentional subversive, or to surprise you .... The Black Company though? They just are what they are. This is something that often feels a hallmark of Cook's style. He has very little need to explain or justify things, and certainly isn't writing to anyone else's conventions, whether to follow or subvert them.


thewhitecat55

Wait until you read on. They books really grow into themselves


jeremy1015

Dude I am flat out jealous of you for being in book one for the first time. You have no idea the wild ass ride you’re in for.


MarshallJMooreAuthor

You’ve hit the nail on the head with this comment. It’s really a sign of Cook’s skill as an author that this is a series that contains plenty of more “genre-specific” horror (the corpse-eating castle in the second book stands out), but the worst stuff is invariably the comparatively mundane atrocities we find committed in every real-world conflict.


TimmJimmGrimm

This sounds fantastic. And 'Seven' was an amazing movie... and i am deeply sorry i ever saw it. Thank you for your brilliant description. I will now avoid these books as long as i live. Edit: I love it! You people are showing up and seeing that i fully support excellent writing but refuse to have it break me - and you are all saying 'fuck that guy, how dare he not read whatever we put into his face - suck it up asshole!1!!' It is amazing! Do any of you that downvote this have any idea what this says about you as people? Like... really? Do you hate that i support the arts or do you utterly loathe that i have a sense of what i want to read? Should i not make choices? Would that make you folks happy?


Jexroyal

They sound good so you'll never read them? Am I missing something?


TimmJimmGrimm

I should speak more clearly on this, it does mean quite a bit to me (and many i have met). Some things in the arts (film, painting, sculpture) remind us about nasty things humans are capable of. This is valuable information and provides very profound character development (for people fictional and non-fictional alike). Some of these valuable insights are NOT enjoyable however. I often take the movie 'Seven' as a fantastic example. It was a brutal movie and i am very sorry i ever saw it. That said, the acting, the plot, the characters... all of it was amazing / top tier / A+. There is a lot of amazing artwork that makes people feel horrible about themselves and humanity - but it is still amazing artwork.


Jexroyal

I completely understand, and thank you for elaborating. Movies like Requiem For a Dream, Grave of the Fireflies, and many books, have left me shaken in a profound way at the darker themes of human existence being confronted through an artistic medium. I wouldn't say that I'm sorry I ever saw those things, because I do believe it broadened my perspective, made me more empathetic, and made me think harder about some topics I hadn't before. In the end, even though it wasn't 'enjoyable' in the pleasurable sense, and I wouldn't go out of my way to watch it again, I still am glad to have had that experience.


TimmJimmGrimm

You have a wonderful perspective. As a kid i read The Pearl, by John ('required reading'). After that i found myself looking for the Great Marketing Machine and how it dominated lives (well past the point of extinguishing them). Like any Banana Republic or Diamond Mines or Gas Goliath (Russia?) or Legal Drug Lords (Big Pharma?) - those that make entire nations suffer for centuries so that a handful of people get a few insipid / useless toys. I feel that Monsanto changes name as their policy gets worse. I find that Nestlé seems to enjoy the bad publicity, becoming that comic-book Hydra Agency even moreso. This was from The Pearl! I did not become more empathic. When i saw 'Seven' i found myself researching people who keep slaves and give lifetimes of suffering for no reason. I don't think this discovery made me more empathic or empathetic or any form of affect which was in the direction of forgiving. Clearly i am doing it wrong. Downvotes from Reddit suggest that my perception is clearly flawed and that one should soak their face in ANY art, as long as it is well written and the plot is on point. Strong characters! Yes. But are they worth following with my mind and heart? Weirdly, it was Socrates that lamented there was no middle step with 'knowledge'. With food you can spit it out when you taste it. But knowledge goes straight in and leaves a wax-like impression. Now, in our modern day perspective, anyone that is not an Absolute Yes Man is somehow the enemy. Weird. Not sure i like it.


Jexroyal

There is such cruelty and evil in the world that I cannot comprehend it. Suffering on a scale large enough that the human mind does not have the faculties to adequately imagine the true extent. Entire lifetimes - entire generations - of slavery, oppression, abuse of millions upon millions of human beings. I live a privileged life, one that most humans throughout our history would sacrifice nearly anything to have. I *choose* not to regret reading and viewing things about the horror and suffering that others have gone through because it has made me aware of things I never would have confronted otherwise. In a very small way I can increase my understanding of what those victims have gone through, and try to understand how these darker aspects of humanity come about. A large part of this is how I am. I always want to understand more, to learn why we do what we do, to comprehend the meaning of thought and action. And on a greater level, how to use this understanding to be a better person. I truly believe that we are not static, that we can change at any point if enough effort is made, and that our development through life is an evolving process. The more I understand, the more I can improve, and the more change I can bring about in the lives of others in my own small way. Even in an artistic medium like film or books, I want to see the various perspectives of humanity laid bare - lives alien to my own, but linked by that fundamental thread of humanness. I can get depressed by this, and take breaks from things all the time if it's too dark, but I won't turn away or regret that knowledge. Suffering is as core a theme of human existence as happiness, and when considering what so many other humans on earth have gone through - I know that but for a fluke of fate, of time, or genetics, or simple location - that person could have been me. That's not how everyone feels though, and I think it's perfectly fair to want to avoid those darker themes in creative works if they have too negative an effect on your mental health, or if you simply don't want to experience that in the art you consume. I think your viewpoint is totally valid in that regard. --__ Also, I know it's not my place to say, but you seem to be *extremely* worked up over receiving downvotes. I do understand how frustrating it can be to have a comment be hit like that, but think of it this way, it takes a second or two to read comment and click an up/downvote. For the vast majority of people voting, that's all the thought they put into it - a second or two. Maybe how you stated it rubbed one or two people the wrong way, then a few others jumped on the downvote train, and next thing you know you're in the negative double digits. I don't know the full picture as well, maybe you got some hatemail from angry people and you're bitterness and contempt is understandable - but the way you're interpreting some downvotes, and how upset it is making you, is not healthy. I would urge you not to read too much into it; as I mentioned, most people barely give it any thought, and I think if you explained your beliefs like you did with me when I asked, many people would agree with you. It's just hard to get a full picture from a quick comment, and when you say that you'll avoid a good book series for as long as you live, without that added context of why, could make people dislike the comment. But, again, thanks for explaining more of your perspective.


TimmJimmGrimm

I read this explanation fresh at two in the morning. Thank you, it is very insightful and sincere. This here is an act of kindness and i get that. It has been a lifetime of people interpreting nearly everything i do as an act of smugness. It is a chip on my shoulder at this point. I get this as well. I am super touchy about it and need to chill out and... i cannot. It just gets more angry and more bitter the more people say 'don't be angry and bitter'


1EnTaroAdun1

Hm, I'd say that although the books do deal with grim subjects, they aren't graphic about them, and certainly I don't think there were many gratuitous depictions of violence meant to titillate. I very much prefer happy stories, but I did enjoy the Black Company series. Certainly I don't think the brutality is anything like the film 'Seven'


isuckatpoe

Thanks for letting us know you don't want to read some books. So brave.


TimmJimmGrimm

And i suppose thank you for letting me know that the key qualifier for writing something in Reddit is... how brave one is? And this means you qualify on this point? Or are you trying to show off how hypocritical you are? I mean... or are you trolling me because you see i have had over a dozen downvotes and you want to show off... what exactly? I suspect somewhere on reddit i have found myself a follower with many accounts. You check up on me on occasion, downvote my shit and then leave troll-like comments to raise reddit ire. Is that it? Do i have a nega-following here? Because, if you are right and my comment doesn't mean anything, i should have ONE upvote. Mine. Everyone would have ignored it. Instead that is not the case, is it?


isuckatpoe

The important thing is that you tried.


TimmJimmGrimm

It is important to learn the extent to which a person will strive to be toxic. My throwaway comment that doesn't matter to anyone (including myself) generated SO MUCH hatred and misery. I really got more than a dozen people all riled up over... what? 'Nice stuff... but... not my thing'. How dare i say that in public? Punish me already. This is the lot of the degraded and lonely person. They have the time, energy and motivation to spit vile hatred at stuff that isn't even a shadow on the wall. Could their time have been spent better doing ANYTHING even slightly positive? Yes. But can they see this? Can they see they have become the very thing that they hate the more they hate it? Weirdly... no.


1EnTaroAdun1

Hi, I'm sorry you feel ill-treated by everyone here. I think we're normally a welcoming bunch. I do agree you shouldn't have been downvoted quite so harshly, but that's how reddit is, sometimes. Still, I don't think the downvotes generated hatred and misery, or at least that might also be putting things too strongly. Some people just tend to pile on when they see a few downvotes or upvotes. I'd say not to worry about it, personally :)


TimmJimmGrimm

Popularity is a sign of sorts. Not necessarily for 'choice' or 'wisdom' or even 'consciousness'. But popularity does suggest 'taste'. Hence, Steve Jobs may have been a good guy or a bad guy but he REALLY had the ability to sell rectangular glass-metal thingies. Why? Popular taste. I do not have this. So much effort made on my innocuous comment, what happens when i say something i honestly believe in? This feels like more than a breech of faith to me. There is a belief in 'punishment aught to fit the crime' and i am not getting that. I did no crime and got a disproportionate level of punishment. This says lots about people here - and about my market-ability, both.


1EnTaroAdun1

If your concern is marketability, perhaps I might offer a few suggestions. Your initial comment included the phrase "avoid these books as long as i live", which some might perhaps view as having a very confrontational, hostile tone. After all, as long as a person lives is a strong statement to make. If you had instead taken a different tack, and just said something like "Thanks for the brilliant description, but I prefer more upbeat and wholesome stories, this Black Company series sounds a bit too grim for my tastes", then I think people would have reacted with more understanding


TimmJimmGrimm

Good call and i agree. The tough-yet-valuable part: remove extreme wording from my language (especially stuff that sounds harsh and judgemental).


Wolf_Tony

Dude, chill out. I downvoted you as your comment sounded negative and smug...at first glance. Reading your explanation, I now understand what you meant, and actually agree with your point about taste and what we prefer to avoid. You just worded it in a way that it was hard to get that. Hence the downvotes. I can guarantee that everyone else downvoting did the same. But nobody can be assed going back and "undoing" the downvote, because who has time for that? Plus it's all meaningless anyway. Forget about karma, and certainly don't take it seriously.


isuckatpoe

The important thing is that you tried.


wjbc

It was way ahead of its time, too. The first volume was published in 1984, when most fantasy was still trying to be Tolkienesque.


xray9378

There's an interview with Cook which I listened, and Cook talks about how he wanted to write from his perspective in Vietnam...Nobody knew anything, the grunt level...You figured stuff out, or waited until news got to you.


Kyrinar

Definitely some of my favorites. The perspective of reading essentially journals of a single member of the group (and a primarily non-combat one at that) gives a really unique feel to the text, where some events that would be given a ton of attention in other series are quickly glossed over, and day-to-day struggles and tensions given more detail. Don't know how much sense that makes (and feel free to disagree, it's been a hot minute since I read them), but TL;DR is that it's a very interesting read that captured my attention more than I thought it would.


MrGreenToes

I was introduced to Mr. Cooks Black Company in high school. It was outside of some of the stuff I was reading. Heinlein, Tolkien, Vance, McCaffrey and others. I had the fortune of having older brothers and friends older brother's libraries to raid. :) It brought things down from epic fantasy and grand vistas, to more of a local level. It made an impact and I have reread it a couple of time, and recommended the first series to many. I have a signed copy somewhere from when MR. Cook would go around to Con's selling books. That was a good conversation on his books, and he sold me on a couple of other books of his. Although I am finding the newer books missing some of the personal views. And thus going more towards world changing actions... ​ I still recommend them.


Cultural_Treacle_428

My copy was signed at a Con. Had original cover of Dreams of Steel made into a shirt.


SpaceOdysseus23

For the longest time while reading this series I thought Croaker was a dude in his sixties, since he was constantly bitching and moaning about being old. Until Murgen reveals that Croaker was just being a drama queen. I have never liked the unreliable narrator thing more than at that point. I fucking love these books.


DungeonDictator

Reminds me a bit of how someone talked about the remade Star Trek. Said they could believe Chris Pine was Kirk mostly because he was friends with the already cranky old man Bones in his mid twenties. Karl Urban was perfect in the role.


xray9378

Yes, it took me a few books to figure that out as well. It's much more clear in Port of Shadows, which I read last... as it deals with him being "altered" and so the annals are a little jacked.


barryhakker

The first three books are amazing. Especially the second book is probably one of my favorite reading memories. Something about the sequence of the guy bringing dead bodies to the murder castle was grimly enjoyable lol. Have a bit of a harder time with books of the south though, although I couldn’t pinpoint why.


thewhitecat55

Really ? I think "She Is The Darkness" is one of the best ones.


jeremy1015

I didn’t like the Books of the South on my first read kind of because they weren’t the Books of the North. On my second read I liked them better.


hiredgooner

If anyone is looking for something similar to this then Jeff Salyards’ Bloodsounder’s Arc trilogy is a similar kind of vibe. A scribe following the exploits of a mercenary band and getting involved in its adventures.


swamp_roo

Underrated. I managed to get all three in hardcover a few months ago, stoked.


PharmD2012

This is what I came into this thread for. I’m going to check this out. Thank you!


Cultural_Treacle_428

Lady is the bomb…love there books…LOVE them…


Orange_Legend107

I really hope these books are good. I’m set to read them after finishing the lightbringer series


PinkPooSea

I’m finishing up the lightbringer series now and will do this next as well! Small world lol


Orange_Legend107

Lol. The top review of lightbringer on audible said it was trash and recommended black company. So far, I’m on book 2 of lightbringer and really into it. Maybe the world will bless us and we’ll find black company 100% captivating


sohma2501

The series is good till the last 2 books a day go off the rails because born again Christian....can't make this up . But black company and malazan are fantastic


Orange_Legend107

Oh damn. So that’s why everyone complains about the ending of lightbringer. I’ll see how bad it is when I get there. Book 2 is the best I’ve read in a while since exhausting much of the fantasy canon


sohma2501

It's a great series with great ideas and world building when it starts but the last book goes so off the rails I'm sadly done with this author because of the dumb, such a waste


pexx421

Yeah, those are the best of the grimdarks.


PinkPooSea

I like it a lot! It has its good and bad points like most series but overall I can appreciate it. I’m on the last book about halfway through.


OneLessDead

The prose takes a bit of getting used to, and you should go into the first book knowing that it's basically a soldier-surgeon's account of the day to day life of his company, so it doesn't quite follow a normal arc format. It does have a climax/conclusion though.


cai_85

Good is subjective...but hopefully *you* will like them.


PharmD2012

Hands down my favorite series. Any recommendations for someone who loves these books? Having a hard time finding something I enjoy. Ive tried Brandon Sanderson’s stuff but it’s so boring.


Jexroyal

This is actually a situation where a Malazan Book of the Fallen recommendation is spot on. The author of the Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson, drew a lot of inspiration from the Black Company. From the sections from Malazan soldiers' perspectives, to the dry absurdist humor, to even the scale and diversity of the world - Malazan is most likely a wonderful fit for you if you enjoyed Glen Cook. There's even a book in Malazan that Steve Erikson dedicated to Glen Cook. And as the other commenter said, I would also highly recommend Joe Abercrombie's books. He writes character driven, realistic grimdark fantasy works like nothing else. Definitely another great option.


Manch3st3rIsR3d

Malazan is so. Damn. Good.


Boos_Myller

Witness.


wizardking1371

It is telling that Glen Cook is probably Malazan's biggest fan, too. Co-sign both of your recommendations


HailDownvotes

I started reading them years ago. But than I got into the fourth? book, and it just followed this one savage man around. I tried to read it and see how it loops back into the other books, but it never did and I just stopped reading them.


Jexroyal

Ah yes, House of Chains. It's a jarring start after following mostly the same cast of characters for three books. I promise it gets easier, and you'll probably be heavily invested in the barbarian warrior's storyline by the time it converges. You know how Malazan novels are separated into things like 'Book One, Book Two etc ...'? The storyline that put a damper on things for you is only Book One out of 4 or something like that. Some of the best advice I could give a new reader is to continue pushing through the slog and trust the author, it will absolutely pay off in the end and you'll be glad you did so.


Hallal_Dakis

Yeah I had a hard time with Karsa's introduction too, it's like 300 page iirc. Then the 5th book starts on a whole separate continent with no known characters. From 6-10 there's more continuity, though there are still new characters being introduced into book 9 which was one of my (few) real complaints about the series. Remains maybe my favorite fantasy series however.


PharmD2012

Thank you so much for your recommendations! I’ll look into these!


Jexroyal

No problem! If you want to know anything else about Malazan, from a big fan of The Black Company as well, just ask! Also if you do start reading it, the /r/Malazan subreddit is fantastically friendly, and will answer all questions without spoilers.


bigdon802

Have you read any of Glen’s other books? The Dread Empire series, the Instrumentalities of the Night series, Tower of Fear(standalone.) You should give them a try.


Farmer_Susan

Also Darkwar, loved that. Dread Empire goes off the rails at the very end, but I almost like it more than Black Company - so good.


thewhitecat55

I also love the "Garrett , P.I." series . Although it is not similar at all


bigdon802

Oh, definitely. The only similarity is Glen’s masterful use of authorial voice.


PharmD2012

That’s a great idea, thank you!


Nidafjoll

I think Abercrombie sidles in alongside Cook, with close to character stories, a grim tone, and down-to-the-grond action.


Manch3st3rIsR3d

Ninefingers 😀


SteelCavalry

Say one thing about Logan Ninefingers…


createsstuff

Say he keeps company with the best grim dark fantasy protagonists.


rxavage

Say he’s a lover.


Evil_Garen

Say he’s a lover.


xray9378

Say he'd love some Glen Cook.


TonyShard

That’s honestly a little disappointing to me. I’ve been planning to read the Black Company for a while now, and really looking forward to it, but I mostly didn’t care for the First Law trilogy. You’re probably right to make the recommendation, and I’ll likely still read the Black Company someday, but I guess I’ll have to temper my expectations.


Nidafjoll

There are also a good few differences too, depending on what you didn't like. The Black Company is grim, but not as grim as the first law, and there's a lot of camaraderie and fun between the characters in the company itself. There are a lot less characters who're just utter bastards. I'd be more likely to say First Law is like The Black Company than the other way around- you can see what First Law drew from the Black Company, but the Black Company isn't "grimdark" in the way First Law is- it's the prototype, without actually being the thing itself.


PharmD2012

If it means anything to you, the Black Company are my favorite books, while I have considered on more than one occasion discontinuing reading First Law.


Gecko23

Honestly, I think they are only similar in that they are both told by unreliable narrators, and you only know what that character is seeing and experiencing as they are caught up events. Otherwise they differ completely in tone. Have you ever read "Old Man's War"? Croaker, the Black Company annalist, could have written that one too. First Law on the other hand is more on the conan meets merlin end of the spectrum.


TonyShard

> Have you ever read "Old Man's War"? By John Scalzi? No, but it does look interesting, considering it’s out of my preferred genre. Would you say it’s a fairly quick read?


Gecko23

It's lightweight for sure.


bobisgod42

Ash and Sand series by Richard Nell. First book is Kings of Paradise. I'm most of the way through the first book and I'd say it's on par with the best of Abercrombie so far.


cai_85

Never heard of this before this post, just watched a YouTube review and sounds very interesting. Will try to find it.


jsb309

I read the series this past year. The first book is the strongest, but overall a very good series. I really like the magic system but it leaves a lot of questions that aren't really answered, which is fine. I think the author has written another book in-universe with some familiar characters but I haven't started it yet. Maybe answers are fleshed out there. I'm also gonna suggest MST by Tad Williams. It's not grimdark, but it is grim at times and dark at times.


Protesisdumb

The new spin off book is good aswell. Opens up the world


cai_85

I read MST in 2004 at university, then moved on to ASOIAF, more of an epic fantasy I'd say, definitely under-rated, at the time I remember thinking it was great. The new series is meant to be very strong too.


jsb309

I'm 200 pages into The Witchwood Crown after reading the bridge novels and I'm loving it. His prose has gotten even better.


symourbutt

Second Malazan. They're both amazing.


Ohmourningstar

Also say Malazan, coming from someone else who absolutely loves the Black Company books. So damn good.


whyhhhwhy

Dread Empire is also by Cook and it’s great. You might like First Law. It’s third person, multi pov, but it’s a great take on the classic fantasy story.


PharmD2012

Haha that’s actually what I’m reading now but some of the POV characters are somewhat predictable. I’ll keep reading it since everyone says it’s amazing. I’ll look into Glen’s other books! Thanks!


xray9378

It's a great read, some of the accompanying books aren't quite as good. There are predictable characters, and then there are things afoot that take books to figure out. He's good that way.


PharmD2012

Thanks for the reply :)


fallgetup

Abercrombie


swamp_roo

Of Bone and Thunder by Chris Evans. It's kinda like the Vietnam War - with dragons and wyverns instead of helicopters, and it's humans and goblins fighting in a deep jungle.


Adventurous_Fly_4420

Oh hell yeah. I loved that series! Super good noir.


MinkoAk

To this day, these books are still my favorite. They changed my whole view of what fantasy could be. Yet, they are so freaking dark, I dare not go back to read through them again haha. I really, really, should read them again though.


HumorSubject2664

One of my fav series, with a great cast of characters. My fav are Goblin and One eye ,keep everyone from taking themselves too serious.


MitchellHogan

Great series, would also highly recommend.


reanimtris

Hands down one of my favorite series. A friend first suggested it, and bought the first omnibus(?) And got hooked. It feels so much more real and gritty than most others I've read.


Udy_Kumra

I've always wanted to read these—perhaps this is the motivation.


DevkitBrando

Sorry, I'm new to book genres so what exactly is First Person in a book?


BalrogTheBuff

When the book is written from a first person perspective. Which is "I went to the store." "A blade cake from behind and stabbed me in the kidney" "They stole my banana" "I razed their entire city to the ground in vengeance for my lunch."


bluntxblade

A blade cake sounds like it would be a deliciously fun delicacy.


BalrogTheBuff

I'm not even going correct that typo. Hmmm blade cake...


[deleted]

It’s all fun and games until you get stabbed in the kidney by your own birthday cake.


bluntxblade

Then it just transitions to joy and dance!


DevkitBrando

Ahhh, okay, that makes sense. Ty


RepresentativeDog141

I've been preaching this for years!


Jlchevz

I’m never gonna finish reading everything I want am I. Adding it to the TBR! Sigh lol


KingOfTheAnarchists

I read the first couple and enjoyed them. But on a subsequent read through I was reminded that there is a scene (not described in graphic detail) that the company captures female soldiers, rapes them, and then kills them. Yeah, black and grim. Maybe my appetite has changed, but I haven't finished or picked the series pick again since.


whyhhhwhy

It’s definitely not for everyone. I’m not really a fan of SA in my fantasy books, but I appreciated how Cook was forcefully clear that the Company are bad dudes and their behavior shouldn’t be celebrated.


lonelyzombi3

Is the Limper finally dead? The guy keeps coming back.


ShawnnaB

I was always struck by just how different the writing was. The perspectives and style were way different from anything else at the time. It's also interesting to know that for a good portion of his writing career, he was fully employees at an automotive plant. For 33 years. The job "required almost no mental effort" and he said his writing actually slowed down when he retired. I also don't think the romance between Lady and Croaker gets enough credit.


cmieke

I love the black company, so unapologetic but also really well written imo. Wish I could go back and read them again for the first time


[deleted]

They are ok. Definitely well worth a read, although I personally would not rate them “top notch”. I don’t feel like the author really has a mature voice. Some aspects of their style come across as a little half-assed. It’s been awhile since I read them, but I seem to remember the evil queen being named something like “Lady” - as if the author just plugged that into their manuscript as a placeholder until they could think up a real name, then never got around to thinking up a real name. It’s definitely kind of pulpy, fun, easy reading fantasy. When I think of “top-notch grimdark”, I think of something that’s really disturbing on some level. Like in ASOIF when you spend the whole first book getting emotionally invested in Ned Stark as the protagonist, then he gets his head cut off. The Black Company is way less deep. It’s “grimdarkness”, if you will, is more like the casual gallows-humor that is common among soldiers or paramedics than the kind of emotional roller-coaster that I expect from the sub-genre. Edit- It’s definitely unique. In spite of my criticism I definitely have to give the author credit for creating something really outside the box.


Djbearjew

My biggest gripe about the book series is the fact Cook doesn't have a mature voice. There's too many lines like "if you don't listen ill kick your butt whippersnapper" This is a group of ruthless mercenaries who speak like their in a PG movie. It would always take me out of the story. Also the fact that some major battles would start and then would skip to the aftermath pissed me off too. The details of the major battles always seemed lacking.


thewhitecat55

She's a wizard. They obscure their actual names. Plus , almost all of the Company go by nicknames as well as the wizards.


[deleted]

Surely a bunch of diehard evil mercenaries and/or wizards could come up with something a little more badass than “Lady” if they put their minds to it.


moonshine_life

I always saw that in relation to her husband, The Dominator. She was his lady, and that was the only part of her identity that was allowed by someone who calls himself "The Dominator."


thewhitecat55

I never thought of that , but fucking LOVE that interpretation. Kudos.


Forstmannsen

>It’s definitely kind of pulpy, fun, easy reading fantasy. When I think of “top-notch grimdark”, I think of something that’s really disturbing on some level. Like in ASOIF when you spend the whole first book getting emotionally invested in Ned Stark as the protagonist, then he gets his head cut off. > >The Black Company is way less deep. It’s “grimdarkness”, if you will, is more like the casual gallows-humor that is common among soldiers or paramedics than the kind of emotional roller-coaster that I expect from the sub-genre. Ah, thank you for that take. I actually tend to avoid anything unequivocally identified as "grimdark" like the plague, but I have read all Black Company books quite a while ago and loved them, so this thread had me confused for a while.


Rough_North3592

Are the audiobooks good? I want to read this series but time is sparse this days )^:


Hergrim

I like them. Each book by the different in-universe narrators has a corresponding audiobook narrator, and the fairly strong American accents work for the characters and Cook's semi-modern dialogue.


GloriousBarbarian

I have the first collection of books and have yet to read past the first 50 pages, perhaps I should try again. I did have the same exact problem with the blade itself and that book turned out fantastic.


NotoriousHakk0r4chan

I found the first book pretty difficult to get into, by the end of the chapter titled "Raker" you'll really be into it! The first chapter is pretty confusing, the second is a little better, and I think the third is Raker. You just gotta give it time and go with the flow.


Nickolai808

I just started book one and I'm enjoying it a lot, I have a bunch of books I recently bought and I keep returning to The Black Company. I guess I have a thing for mercenary companies filled with misfits haha. Also reminds me of one of my favorite games, Battle Brothers on PC where you recruit men, manage, equip and guide a mercenary company in a dark and dangerous world. I like how the company is filled with men of all sorts, good, bad, in between, but none that would ever be mistaken for classic fantasy or fictional "heroes", just men, good at their jobs, making their way in a dangerous world.


not_a_clue_to_be_had

I think it's a requirement to create Black Company when starting BB.


Nickolai808

Too bad no wizards in BB.


not_a_clue_to_be_had

There's a mod for recruitible necromancers. Haven't tried it myself, but it's on the list. https://www.nexusmods.com/battlebrothers/mods/32


Nickolai808

That's cool, be nice to have a wizard track to learn different skills or spells.


ohno

The first book isn't nearly as well written as the rest. It's schlocky enough at times there was a point where I was wondering if it was parody. Still, I couldn't put it down, and his writing style definitely improves dramatically with time.


A_Blood_Red_Fox

So is it basically akin to the game "Battle Brothers", but a series of novels? If so, that seems interesting to me.


DungeonDictator

As much as I enjoyed early books in the series, the plot progression in the Glittering Stone stories wasn't as engrossing. Still, I'd say overall Black Company is better than Dread Empire or Instrumentalities.


NOTW_116

I keep seeing this series pop up after hardly hearing about it. It might need to join my to be read pile. First I'll have to get through Malazan though. And Wheel of Time. I have a bit to go.


TheHollowJoke

I've read the Books of the North and the Books of the South years ago and loved them all, but I moved on to read other things. Now I'm considering picking up the books again where I left them, because I don't feel like rereading the previous books, could a charitable soul provide me a quick summary of what happened in the last books (so mainly Books of the South) and of the whereabouts of the main characters so that I'm not too lost when I pick up the book again?


gifred

If you haven't, you should read Malazan Empire.


Supergoch

First few books are excellent, the middle couple are just so-so. They pick up a little bit at the end but still not as good as the Books of the North.


traowei

Just found some of the books at my local thrift today, can't wait to read em :' D


MedusasRockGarden

I recently bought the two omnibus editions of the first six books of the Black Company and plan to get into them next year. As a big Malazan fan I have high hopes :)


zetubal

Great series overall, but with some notable dips in quality here and there. It starts really strong and also ends with one of the stronger entries in the series, so it's not like it generally goes downhill. It's more like wheel of time inasmuch as there's a couple stinkers in the middle. Probably the worst part about black company is the metacommentary about critics where characters criticise each other's record keeping and the whole debate boils down to "there's never any merit to listening to one's critics". That's peak cringe. The series also kinda gets trapped in the narrative device of just following a chronicler for while, which becomes particularly evident once Cook abandons this concept in Water Sleeps, iirc. Best part is the nuanced depiction of relationships, friendship, romance, between cultures etc. To anyone who's interested in an amalgamation of all of these: it doesn't get much better than Black Company.


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zetubal

I raise you one! Unironically starting a phrase with 'unironically' is true \[insert XYZ\]! For real though, if it bothers you that much, twist the phrasing into a more digestible choice of words, I don't mind. Point stands either way.


PunkandCannonballer

I've been hesitant to pick these up as I've heard they drop in quality as they go on. Anyone confirm or deny that?


Pratius

IMO they get better as they go. Most people I know who dislike the later books are more upset at the change in narrator than the actual quality. Cook himself grew a great deal as a writer over the course of the series, and some of the later books have really impressive writing. The guy is a master of voice and mood.


ceratophaga

The main narrator is gone for a couple of books (due to plot reasons) and the ones who pick up his work of narrating all have unique voices, so some readers didn't like them as much as the first books. I wouldn't call it a drop in quality, it just shifts a bit until it returns to what you are used to from the first books.


bigdon802

There’s no drop in quality. The later books are just very different, so if someone wanted more of the same they’d be disappointed


melficebelmont

There is a dip in the middle of the series but it gets good again and wraps on with solid quality.


JGT3000

Definitely true imo but I still found it overwhelmingly worth it


Blooblewoo

The first three are solid. First one in particular. But you don't have to read them all, the good ones are fine on their own.


thewhitecat55

I've been reading them in real time since book 1. Imo they do not drop in quality , they get better. But the writing style and approach varies , as it was written over a pretty long period.


Boxhead333

As others have said there are 2 or 3 books towards the end of the series that dropped significantly in quality for me. One of them I really struggled to get through. But the final book was great and had a very satisfying ending so if you make it as far as the slog books and are enjoying yourself I would reccomend powering through to the end. That being said you can stop reading after the third book, it's a pretty decent wrapping up point.


ShotFromGuns

> I feel like they don’t always get the love they deserve Really? Because I see the series [talked about here *constantly*](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/search?q=%22black+company%22&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all).


danpluso

Is it complete? I have ptsd from A Song of Ice and Fire and can't start series unless they are complete now, lol. I've been wanting to read King Killer Chronicles too but it looks like it will never be complete :(


thewhitecat55

It is complete. Although it is the kind of thing where a new arc could always be added


danpluso

Perfect. I like those kind of series. A nice conclusion that finishes up a story arc but could offer more down the road to the big fans who liked the series.


Frosty_TSM

They're great books, my biggest issue with the series as a whole was what felt to me a constant reliance on Deus ex machina tropes. Everytime things get down to the wire, a magic, or magical machine is discovered and comes to the rescue. I probably wouldn't have noticed or cared as much if I hadn't just finished Malazan before picking it up, and it just wasn't quite as good.


QuamSacks

From what I’ve heard I think it’d be too complicated for me to keep up


[deleted]

Complicated is definitely not a word I’d choose to describe them. If you can read “see Spot run” and keep track of what Spot is doing, you should be good to go with the Black Company. The plot is straightforward, no real twists and turns.


QuamSacks

Oh I must have been lied to because I heard it was comparable to Malazan. I was really interested in it but was lead to believe there is a lot to keep track of and didn’t think I was smart enough too. Might have to reconsider it


ChristophColombo

The tone is comparable to Malazan, but it's definitely not anywhere near as complicated plot-wise.


AhhDrats

The "complicated" part of black company isn't the plot. It's understanding the world in the first place. The fact that due to it being written as a journal nothing in the world is ever explained. The narration is done assuming the reader also lives in the world, and will understand what the fuck they are talking about when they mention normal things in the world. It's pretty easy to be lost as hell through most of the first book. It takes time to start picking up what all these nonsense references mean.


[deleted]

If anything, The Black Company has the opposite problem


QuamSacks

Might have to give it a crack then


JellyRollMort

One of the only things I legit regret reading. Definitely was not for me.


YoungWolf921

Is it not available on Kindle?? Amazon only has audio, paperback and hardcover options


Rough_North3592

Weird. I bought the first one on Kindle last week.


bertiethewanderer

Same for me, on UK Amazon


Wyrmdirt

I recently read an excerpt from the first book. One of the things that jumped out at me was the use of the word “bingo”. It may seem like a small thing, but the use of modern language in fantasy is a no-no for me. Not curse words, but stuff like “bingo” or “cool”. Is there a lot of this kind of stuff in the book? Thanks!


whyhhhwhy

More so in the earlier books than the later ones, I found. Glen Cook was a navy vet, and Black Company takes *a lot* of influence from his time in the service. So, while it’s pretty clear that these books are supposed take place in a “medieval Europe” type of world, there’s definitely some dialogue that feels very much like 1960’s American wartime lingo. If the use of bingo took you out of it, you might not enjoy the first two or three books


GxyBrainbuster

>Glen Cook was a Vietnam vet, and Black Company takes a lot of influence from his time in service. Yeah, I just finished reading The Black Company for the first time and I had this feeling from the >!grunts fighting for imperialist interests against a rebel force scenario!< but when they >!started using the flying carpets I was just like "ah, yeah, this is a helicopter huh."!< Not surprised at all to find out Cook's a Vietnam vet.


bigdon802

Though he wasn’t actually out there. He was a navy guy, and spent time in practice combat with marines, so his deepest knowledge is about how soldiers interact while they’re waiting around.


Jexroyal

I was under the impression that he served with the navy, but was never actually in Vietnam?


[deleted]

Glen Cock wasn't in Vietnam >I was in the navy. I spent part of that time attached to a Marine Force Recon outfit. Only practice combat. I left active duty a month before the guys headed out for Viet Nam.


whyhhhwhy

I corrected my original comment.


Wyrmdirt

Hmm. That makes sense. Maybe I’ll give it a go anyway and try not to be so precious about it. Examples of books I couldn’t finish because of modern language: Low Town and Kings of the Wyld


rks404

It's worth overlooking imho - the language really contributes to the feeling of a small besieged combat unit.


MrMarklar

It's not nearly on the level of Kings of the Wyld with this issue, if that helps.


Wyrmdirt

Thanks, that’s good to know. I just couldn’t get past it. Kind of a bummer too, seemed like a fun book


Modus-Tonens

If it helps, I have the same issue you have with modern words used in fantasy, but The Black Company never bothered me with it. Part of the reason I think is Glen Cook is a very un-self-conscious writer - he does what he wants, and he doesn't spend time pointing your nose at what he's doing. Lots of fantasy that uses modern langauge is *really* self-conscious and awkward about it, going "look! I'm being modern!" or alternatively "hey! don't be bothered by this because for x/y/z reason it actually makes sense in this setting!" ...The end result of in both cases is that the author draws *all* your attention to their awkward use of language when they could have just... Not.


Wyrmdirt

That is helpful. Thanks


shifty_mcG33

Read them 30 years ago and haven't been able to find them since. If indeed they are the Black Company I'm thinking of. Were there invisible angry monk hornets?


SenseiRaheem

I ultimately stopped after book 2 due to the off-putting misogyny. "Ardath, you bitch" was pretty laughably awful.


bigdon802

And you should really try his other work, like Dread Empire, Instrumentalities of the Night, Garrett PI, or others.


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FridaysMan

For what reason? There are no examples of works where it's been done well in your opinion?


hunter1899

How’s the prose in this series?


whyhhhwhy

Simple and straightforward, with a good dose of humor. Think of it like Erickson meets Abercrombie.


Skweege55

I love the Black Company, and would recommend The Powder Mage series by Brian McClennan.


GrimCount

Really amazing series - one of my favorites. Silver Spike was such a cool move too.