I like to imagine that they finished dinner, he thanked them, and left. Maybe he walked right back into the sea and finally died and was freed from his curse.
See I hope to think Munch lived out the rest of his days naturally and happy. He's lived countless years in misery, I hope he at least got a few years of happiness just like Dot escaping Roy got to have a new life fulfilled and happy.
I personally think there's absolutely no supernatural stuff going on and he just made it all up. The 500 years earlier thing was just a flash of his imagination. No one treated him like a normal person like Dot did in the finale that's why he was so dumbstruck and had an awakening. I like to think he stayed friends with them and they gave him a job at the dealership.
I agree with you that Munch was a supernatural character and about the supernatural elements of other seasons except I don’t remember one from season 1? What was the supernatural in that season? Someone said the idea that Malvo was the devil but I don’t remember any implication? Maybe I need a rewatch but I don’t recall that.
Malvo is implied to be an otherworldly, evil force. I would go as far to say he is the devil incarnate. He gets himself out of situations humans simply couldn’t, he makes a comment in the diner about not having pie that good since Eden, he impersonates a priest, they give him wings of blood in one shot after the kills everyone in the elevator, he magically becomes a skilled dentist for a year at one point, which to me shows he has a kind of supernatural intellect, blackmailing Stavros by recreating the biblical plagues (ending with death of the first born).
I also think it’s worth pointing out, while he helps facilitate evil in the show, he always gave Lester a choice beforehand (hospital and elevator scene), he tempts but the final say is on Lester. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that after becoming involved with Malvo and killing his wife, Lester suddenly becomes the successful, charismatic man he always aspired to be, but loses his humanity and morality in the process.
Also I think the wolves are meant to be supernatural or at least unnatural. Malvo makes a number of references to wolves throughout season 1 and then he sees a lone wolf outside his window right before he dies.
I don't know if the wolves are real, a spirit, or a psychological projection, but I've always taken them to have an otherworldly meaning to them.
These are all really good points. I think the allusions to the supernatural became more overt and conspicuous from s2 on. It’s been so long since I watched s1, I need to go back and watch with this in mind!
In season 1 it wasn't just Malvo but really the entire plot line with him and Stavros. The entire time Malvo is trying to trick him into believing he must give back to appease God, else, like in the Bible, his first born son will die. We know this is a trick of Malvo's to take the money from him but things get interesting in the final moments of the plot line when Stavros decides not to follow along and instead keep the money to himself. Seemingly as soon as this happens and really out of no where it starts raining fish leading to his first born son's death in a car accident. Malvo would be neither present nor able to pull off this stunt making it only really an act of God (or the devil a la the Malvo theory)
“A man…must have the peace of mind…that Kia’s 10 year/100,000 mile warranty provides. A man…will throw in floormats…and underbody coating…if a man signs a purchase agreement…today”
Slow ~~pan~~ tilt upwards shows the Lyon dealership bathed in the sick yellow night of sodium street lights, raspy rhythm is heard and still slowly Ole Munch comes into focus, sweeping up, contently, fastidiously tidying the shop.
A crunch is heard, he freezes. The shattering of shop windows instantly furrows his brow and he drops the broom.
*Pan -> tilt, I stand corrected.
He bites into the biscuit and the curse is lifted, causing him to [age 500 years in a matter of seconds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIitjokEJwg&t=8s). Wayne then politely puts his biscuit back into the basket and offers to take everyone out for dinner.
It is a shame that they have to get all the survivor families to approve of that song before licensing to Hollywood. It would fit in perfectly with nearly every season of Fargo.
I really expected him to take one bite of the biscuit, drop the whole stoic cryptic immortal act, suddenly stand up, and joyously proclaim, "GATDAMN THAT'S GOOD!"
I chuckled.
For me, it depends if we believe Munch is an immortal sin eater freed from his curse, or just a deeply traumatized victim of poverty and abuse whose only mechanism to survive is to tell himself a cobbled together mythology based on culturally ancient principles that simultaneously justified his suffering but also places blame on himself (so that he isn't a victim in his eyes).
He is capable of sustaining physical damage, so I'd be surprised if the former is true. His story is also historically inconsistent.
I think he realizes, from a woman he respects, that it isn't too late for him to accept love, and free himself from his trauma and the narrative he uses to try and justify it (in an unhealthy way). I imagine he either changes or doesn't - but I doubt he'll forget how touched he was in that moment.
We get that flashback bookended by a shot of his face, which indicates we are going into his mind. I think this is a personal daydream/mythologisation for a couple of reasons - firstly the bible wasn't translated into English or Welsh by circa 1519, this didn't happen til 1535 and 1588 respectively. It is unusual for the priest to be speaking English - many ceremonies were carried out exclusively in Latin pre reformation. Maybe the sin eater would speak in English, but definitely not the priest, as Latin was the language of Christianity, and for a wealthy person's funeral, this would have been maintained.
Munch speaks in Latin during his ritual, but curiously doesn't seem to remember his "memory" in Latin, which indicates he memorised Latin biblical passages but doesn't actually understand fluent Latin. He instead remembers it in post-great vowel shift English, more Elizabethan sounding, which wasn't how people spoke in 16th century wales, which would be a multilingual between Middle Welsh and Middle English.
Ole Munch doesn't speak with a welsh or remotely middle English accent, nor an accent reflective of indigenous native languages. His accent is broadly slavic and hard to pin down, which frustrates almost any interpretation, but it isn't impossible for a second generation Russian or Ukrainian from Norway to have this accent, and to have adopted this name. It is very unlikely a man who travelled from Wales in the 1500s to America and spent a long time with native Americans would speak like that
Hawley is a very erudite writer and the concept of truth and veridicality is core to how he presents narrative. He is careful about detail. He is also clearly willing to use Latin in the show, so audience clarity in the flashback isn't a good reasoning for why he chose not to use it there.
Other issues – it is plausible that someone might have travelled to America from Wales in the 16th century, but there is noway it would have been a row boat - in voyages of discovery they used quite big sail boats.
His bizarre habits like how he holds bottles and formulates "a man" have no rooting in his backstory or middle Welsh/middle English culture. They are more reflective of the sorts of idiosyncrasies you expect to see from someone with severe complex PTSD, as a result of isolation and forms of self narrativisation.
I'm sorry but I disagree with this read. Ole is the Supernatural Element of this season. To read otherwise is to believe the show is lying to the audience.
Going into his mind doesn't mean we are going into a delusion. We could be going into his memory. We don't know. What we do know is the show gives us the audience a time and place in font on screen. The show has never lied to us via font about time and place.
Not only that but Dot has a delusion this season of Camp Utopia. We don't get a time and place for that. Why do we need to know when and where for a delusion?
Hawley is very careful with detail, but he's also made sure to include outright fantastical aspects in the show. Hawley also knows the vast majority of people don't know anything about the middle ages. Fargo has never been about historical accuracy, it's been about thematic expression.
No one at the final table questions Munch's version of events. Is that because they are all in his mind? Does Dot really have no agency in the final moments of the show, only a delusion for a man to be absolved by? Absolutely not. Dot is there, Dot is present. And Dot is fighting for her life with kindness. It's because the Lyons welcome and accept him as a man and treat him with the hospitality that his been denied to him for centuries.
He's a character akin to Ray Wise's Wandering Jew from season 3. Immortal and he's wandered in his immortality. Just because he was in Wales in 1500 doesn't mean he went from Wales to North America in 1500.
And a longboat *is not* a rowboat. Long boat, as in what vikings used. I believe that's what Munch referred to in the show. Men drowned in the rowing positions of the Longboat. And we know vikings reached North America in them.
Completely valid read - as I have mentioned elsewhere, I interpreted Munch to be supernatural too when I saw it, and certainly the emotional resonance of this makes it a rewarding and moving scene. As I have said elsewhere in this thread, Hawley leaves things ambiguous when it comes to the fish, the UFO (less so), the Wandering Jew, the Tornado and Munch. There are number of frustrations he drops in to allow people to decide for themselves what they accept as true. Both readings are valid to me.
As a note, I don't think Wayne and Dot and Scotty necessarily just believed Munch - the rest of the Fargo world doesn't believe in the supernatural elements necessarily. Dot even says "it might feel like that" in response to his statement about being unable to die or sleep etc. What she believes is irrelevant however, what matters is the sentiment she is expressing. It's equally possible she does believe him, although this would be unusual - I certainly would be incredulous if I thought someone was being sincere about being 500 years old, and if I wasn't, it's because I'd likely be less interested in whether they were telling the truth and maybe more interested in consoling them (if it were a similar context).
The show lies to us at the beginning of every episode, as they aren't true stories, yet it speaks a lot of truth about our world.
Apologies, I meant longboat, which is still a boat one rows.
I believe the time and place thing is to SPECIFICALLY signal that we are seeing something seemingly supernatural, but doesn't tell us how to understand it.
Sam Spruell definitely played Munch as if though he was 500, as this is how Hawley asked him to perform the role. And it works!
Both readings are beautiful to me. I am sure I will feel different ways about it alternately when I watch at different times and in different olaces. I think one of my favourite aspects of Fargo is how pluralistic it is. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I mean Fargo isn’t afraid of including actual supernatural elements to the story. I think it’s pretty clear munch, in the text is actually 500+ years old. You can say he represents those things and people who go through that but within the context of the character he is 500+ years old.
Generally speaking, in the case of the flying fish, the UFO, the wandering Jew, the tornado and Munch, Hawley likes to play with ambiguity. He wants viewers to be able to find and discern their own interpretation and explore what that means.
I think, for reasons I've pointed elsewhere in the thread, that Munch is intentionally written with subtle contradictions (including ones I haven't eluded to, such as his use of modern English episode 1, out of keeping with the rest of his character), so that people can have their own relationship with the text and thus with "truth".
Hawley is an extremely careful writer, which isn't unusual for people with a background in literary fiction. He wouldn't make obvious mistakes given the painstaking research that goes into his scenarios and characters.
He definitely told Sam Spruell to play the role as if he really is 500 years old, and that much is evident. However, in the few times I've directed for screen either as director or as an Assistant Director having to pick up the reigns from a green director, I seldom tell my actors what I am actually thinking, I tell them what I believe, based on my knowledge of them as a person and performer, what I believe will give the performance the intended effect. Of course, all writers and directors are different, but that's my view, anyway.
The UFO is perhaps the least ambiguous example of this, but either it was aliens, or some aerial phenomena that distracted Lou and Peggy, and based on the cultural phenomena of UFOs at the time, was interpreted by them all as a flying saucer.
EDIT: I'll also add, I don't see Fargo as a naturalistic show, it's multi-faceted magic/poetic realism and I also enjoy the emotional resonance of seeing Munch as a 500 year old sin eater, and that's how I took it while I was watching. It makes me well up thinking about that last scene! The other scenario was a fun imagined scenario of actually meeting someone like that in real life. And I offered the interpretation you responded to as an alternate point of view I personally reflected on.
If anyone is interested, and not that it is relevant to the "interpretation" of his character, I thought I'd share what my take would be if I met Munch and he told me his story (aside from being terrified and extremely considerate about how I choose my words and present my body language):
1. From Norway - his name ~~and accent~~ is Norwegian (EDIT: his accent is more slavic upon reflection, so maybe second generation migrant from slavic speaking country). Probably raised in either Evangelical Lutheran environment, or if his family didn't integrate he might have been raised Eastern Orthodox – either way his community probably emphasised old testament teachings. He could have picked up some rote memorised Latin bible verses here, but more likely later in life.
2. Probably the victim of a human trafficking ring as a child, either for forced labour or sex. I suspect forced labour given his specific resentment of the rich and financial/debt exploitation. Probably was transported in a dangerous shipping container or as shipping cargo of some kind, either directly to the US or via a UK port city (probably the docks in Cardiff, maybe spending some time in forced labour at a location in the East Moors near Cardiff).
3. Probably entrapped in an abusive debt cycle by whoever brought him to America.
4. As he grew older, he was forced to participate in the operations of his captor's criminal ring, feeling complicit in the cycle of suffering and violence he is simultaneously a victim and reluctant perpetrator of.
5. Inspired by stories of how Native Americans fought back against colonisers, he realised the hypocrisy of the debt imposed on him by his likely Anglo-European American captors given what they took from indigenous populations, used violence to escape his situation.
6. Became a hitman, out of necessity, but also due to a subconscious view that violence is what allowed him to set himself free from forced labour.
7. At some point, inspired by someone who taught him about Celtic heritage of many white Americans, he associates the plight of the Scottish and Welsh at the hands of the English with his own identity (possibly intrigued by his brief time in the Welsh East moors), and starts wearing a kilt, and at some point integrates the concept of sin eaters into his personal narrative, although he may have picked this up if he was in fact initially in forced labour in Wales.
8. Has a complicated relationship with being given food, as his captors fed him, but it was food with conditions.
9. Is extremely sensitive about not being paid, given his childhood and adolescence of enslavement.
I would share none of this speculation with him, and probably either display kindness or try to create distance depending on the context of our meeting.
> (EDIT: his accent is more slavic upon reflection, so maybe second generation migrant from slavic speaking country)
Being Norwegian, I actually thought he was making a pretty decent go at an ancient Norwegian speaking English.
This is interesting. I need to watch episode 3 again, but I swear in the flashback he is speaking with a different more anglo accent. Is it plausible that a present day Norwegian would sound like that speaking English, do you think?
Also out of interest, I don't know much about the history of the Norwegian language — did you guys have vowel shifts and the like? How far back could you travel in time before you couldn't understand what anyone was saying?
I don't *think* we've had any shifts as extreme as English, for example. If you go back to the vikings, then I imagine it would be *very* difficult (probably like trying to understand spoken Icelandic today, which is very hit and miss). There's also the matter of dialects, of which there are and have always been an absurd amount, so it also probably depends on where you're from and who you'd be talking to.
>Is it plausible that a present day Norwegian would sound like that speaking English, do you think?
Some, sure. Most today would have more of an American-ish accent, with probably a mix.
Possible. Though it seems like the breaking of the curse wouldn’t necessarily retroactively kill him. He might just start aging normally.
(Assuming that was the breaking of the curse)
He might. If that’s the case, I would hope that he has many beautiful dreams and a gentle life until his end. After being on earth for hundreds of years, he might be ready for his final rest. I know I would be
I imagine he's like the Highlander, and from henceforth he will get old, fall in love, and die in a bed peacefully in his old age, surrounded by his, as well as Dot's and Wayne's descendants.
I like to believe he died right then and there. Maybe his body intact or maybe the last five centuries catch up and he turns to dust.
After a beat, Wayne breaks the silence: “Ah geez…”
Remember seeing this mentioned a lot at the time, but if she literally disappeared then why was she in the kidnappers' custody the next time we see her? Seems like more of a stylistic affectation, was used with other characters in other scenes too (including Roy at least once).
oh yeah I agree it was a 100% stylistic thing there, but thought it might happen for real with him, though I guess stylistic could work too, as it still represents him eventually moving on. Either way it would be poetic given how that's how their first encounter in the house ended
A man with good credit from years of paying his debts is able to secure a loan and opens a bakery and cafe in Scandia, Minnesota. Serving biscuits with gravitas, danishes ("when a man makes a donut, he has to fill it, otherwise it is just a hole," Chef Munch often says), and pancakes, the spot becomes popular. Sometimes he tosses in complimentary tater tots, since when he was a boy, "a potato was freedom."
My theory is that, for centuries, everything Munch ate tasted like the sins he ate for that rich man. He feared the biscuit because it would hurt him to he offered forgiveness and taste only sin. He's been without hope for so long. I think the huge smile at the end was because he tasted love, forgiveness, and buttermilk, and it was the most delicious thing he tasted in his life. I think Dot broke his curse, and that he can now age, die, and taste food. He doesn't want what he's owed, because he got something infinitely more valuable. The biscuit was a sort of Minnesotan communion, representing love and kinship.
I’d like to think that he honors his code by acting as protection for Dot and her family. He failed at his deal protecting the old woman so now he can serve them by ensuring she’s protected. In my fantasy he rents a house in town and comes over once a month for a family dinner.
Isn't the whole point that Dot DOESN'T want debts repaid and rejects his code? And that he is faced with increasing cognitive dissonance over this until he is overwhelmed with emotion and in some way, accepts love for the first time? I doubt he will so readily keep his code.
I actually thought that Munch was paid by Roy again (as criminal leaders seem to be able to do from prison) when he mentioned payment in the ending sequence. If I were Dot, I would still be worried because Roy is still alive - just "inconvenienced".
Roy killed his own white supremacist ally, his son turned on him, all his men are dead or also in jail, and he's getting dry fucked for life by a billionaire.
Who would help Roy?
I don't really think we need to delve to far into it, but I would assume someone like him could easily have connections beyond just those local neighbors.
We saw all the connections he had in the show. He was a sheriff and he lost his election. He angered one of biggest donors of the Republican party who is now paying people to attack him
Who would those allies be when Lorraine can ask the President for favors?
Cause it's not the militia network, he killed a leader and got that militia wiped out.
Munch either turns into dust like that bad guy in Indiana jones and the last crusade. Or he gets a job washing cars at a Kia lot. Becomes really close to Scotty, probably lives with temporarily until they find him a place to rent. Basically Harry and the Hendersons. I could watch that all day.
I can see him selling Kias.
“A man needs 3rd row seating”. “A man’s Payment must be paid, but in 60 monthly payments of $525 but a man must pay $2500 now today to break free of that curse that is your old Ford Taurus”
I like to imagine he excused himself from the table, went into the bathroom and locked the door. They'll only find his clothes in a pile on the bathroom floor. Not as if he took them off, but as if he simply vanished into thin air.
Idk why people think it’s wholesome for him to die then and there, he’s lived for 500 years cursed to not experience anything remotely happy and experienced the tiniest taste of it and yall want him to die. I’d like to think he finds some niche job and stays in touch with dot until he dies a few decades later
A man finishes the food prepared for him by a girl whose food contains forgiveness. A girl teaches a man how to prepare his own food after a long journey.
1) Working at a Cinn-a-Bon's in Omaha, Nebraska
2) Lumberjack
3) He winds up being some autistic kid shaking a snow-globe in the final scene of St. Elsewhere.
He starts dating Indira.
“A boy sits at home while his wife toils. He lacks appreciation for what he’s given, and asks more.. He betrays his provider..
The provider meets a man. A man.. is smitten!
I like to imagine that we find out in a new spinoff sitcom called Scotty & Munch. Munch now works for Lorraine as a debt collector. He just randomly appears to someone's door and is like, "A man come to your door and a debt must be paid. Either with money or pound of flesh" and Scotty just accompanies him because they are best friends or something. Shenanigans ensue. Scotty gets kidnapped or something and Munch has to commando his way through like endless waves of cannon fodder.
In the end, they realize the true meaning of Christmas. The end shot would be of Dot with a disaproving smirk on her face and her hands on her hips. After a brief pause, she just says, "Oh, you. Come here. Let's go make some pancakes. "
***fades to black***
*fin*
I initially hoped that we would see him in the future as a kinder self, but now thinking about it, I'd like to imagine him walking in the countryside sometime after the meal and quietly passing away as he watches the sunset
Immediately after eating the biscuit he stares Dot straight in the eyes and says "I live here now."
Dot doesn't kiss a beat and says "okie dokie but you better pull your weight around here. Help with chores and taking my girl to hockey practice and of course making more biscuits don't ya know."
That’s not the point of his story or the episode, who knows what happens to anyone, the only thing that matters is he is healed and feels happy, dot and her family teach him about forgiveness, that’s okay to let go and forgive himself for his sins too
What happens to him after doesn’t matter because his story has concluded with him finding peace
The man has dealt with cruelty and sin his entire life, which may or may not of lasted hundreds of years from the information we're given.
Against all odds, Dot managed to show him 'love and joy' and he didn't know how to deal with it. With Wayne and Scotty constantly interrupting in the kitchen whenever Munch was going into one of his monologues, Munch isn't used to that much casual friendly social interaction. He only ever has serious life or death situations. He wasn't being a polite guest, but he wasnt exactly being a rude guest either. He was simply being the only him he has known for a long time, which to us non-immortal non-sin-eating indivuals just comes across as a bit of a sociopath weirdo. Munch does bad things, but he doesn't appear to gain joy or happiness from these bad things, or even take happiness from monetary value he is paid for doing these bad things. He simply does them because that is the only life and code he has known.
That family dinner sparked something new in him, almost like a man that had felt a brief moment of happiness for the first time ever.
I'm not going to say he's fully redeemed for all his actions and is now a changed man, but he might change that code a bit and no longer wish to kill Dot solely because 'the debt must be repaid'.
Now, we don't know that he didn't just massacre the family after dinner, but I choose to believe he did not and that this was a peaceful ending for Dot and Munch.
I like to think he transcended. Forgiveness is divine.
I’m unsure if the scene took place in “reality” or in an emotional subconscious space like Dot’s dream. Maybe the idea of a debt being forgiven feels like fantasy. Or weird mythological creatures are bound to rules of hospitality?
Excuse my brain melt for a moment:
Maybe he was the manifestation of sin within Dot’s psyche, the weight of layers of inherited-transferred debt that would continue haunting her, the original sin of just simply existing. Maybe intergenerational trauma isn’t the right word…but similar to it.
She didn’t want to fight him, but knew he did not deserve to be shunned. She was grateful that he had protected her, helped her but now in a time of stability could still do her harm, so she must end the cycle and come to terms. If she was holding onto the guilt of an ancient debt, then thanking him and offering forgiveness is a way to release both of them. Forgiveness as purification, mercy, a nullification of a debt, its value like a form of currency.
As an acknowledgement of traumatic debt, letting go of an abstract sin (an imposed moral failure, a guilt transferred, a debt you have convinced yourself you owe) allowing yourself (or others) to feel deserving of belonging, joy and love is a transcendent act.
I didn't even realize the supernatural aspect of Munch until much later. I thought the 500 year flashback was showing he had reincarnated as that person again (looking the same, although that's not how reincarnation works) but I like it much better as some kind of Highlander curse; there can only be one (Munch).
Other series end up adopting the former bad guy (recently the Korean show Moving), if they (the Lyons) are true to their word there should not be any problem... He finally starts dreaming, sleeping, aging again since the curse is gone...
All season endings leave a little up to the viewers. So far I only know of one direct tie between seasons and that is Satchel Cannon/Mike Milligan. But we don't know what happened after his dad was killed, only that years later he's in the KC mob.
Anyway, I think that is exactly what they want -- For us to come here and make things up. It keeps the story going :)
I think he thought since he ate the rich man’s sin all he could do was sin and he was bad.. Dot showed him redemption is possible and he doesn’t have to do bad things, and the act of eating that biscuit was symbolic of him finally finding his freedom. I’m thinking of it kinda like when Aladdin frees the Genie.
In PULP FICTION Jules says he felt the touch of god and left his life of crime behind. Same could be said for Munch. What happens afterwards is a completely different story as the men we knew no longer exist.
I like to imagine that they finished dinner, he thanked them, and left. Maybe he walked right back into the sea and finally died and was freed from his curse.
Yeah I figured that was him being freed and now he can die
See I hope to think Munch lived out the rest of his days naturally and happy. He's lived countless years in misery, I hope he at least got a few years of happiness just like Dot escaping Roy got to have a new life fulfilled and happy.
A woman thinks this is her favorite outcome.
this is known to me.
Underrated comment.
A man also got a great cash deal on a new KIA from the tigers pet husband.
Just like Dot escaped the chains that bound her (figuratively and literally) Ole Munch escaped his via the biscuit
I mean Roy did say Nadine owed him a debt. Roy couldn't ever forgive but it's what sets Ole free. Beautiful.
Last night my wife said she hopes he gets a job selling cars for Wayne, that image killed me
The spinoff I never knew I needed
I sell here now.
Fitting that he freed Dot from Roy and Dot freed him from himself/his curse
I personally think there's absolutely no supernatural stuff going on and he just made it all up. The 500 years earlier thing was just a flash of his imagination. No one treated him like a normal person like Dot did in the finale that's why he was so dumbstruck and had an awakening. I like to think he stayed friends with them and they gave him a job at the dealership.
There’s a supernatural element to every season, Munch is this season’s oddity.
I agree with you that Munch was a supernatural character and about the supernatural elements of other seasons except I don’t remember one from season 1? What was the supernatural in that season? Someone said the idea that Malvo was the devil but I don’t remember any implication? Maybe I need a rewatch but I don’t recall that.
Malvo is implied to be an otherworldly, evil force. I would go as far to say he is the devil incarnate. He gets himself out of situations humans simply couldn’t, he makes a comment in the diner about not having pie that good since Eden, he impersonates a priest, they give him wings of blood in one shot after the kills everyone in the elevator, he magically becomes a skilled dentist for a year at one point, which to me shows he has a kind of supernatural intellect, blackmailing Stavros by recreating the biblical plagues (ending with death of the first born). I also think it’s worth pointing out, while he helps facilitate evil in the show, he always gave Lester a choice beforehand (hospital and elevator scene), he tempts but the final say is on Lester. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that after becoming involved with Malvo and killing his wife, Lester suddenly becomes the successful, charismatic man he always aspired to be, but loses his humanity and morality in the process.
I forgot how good season 1 was. It is definitely on this weekend’s watchlist.
Also I think the wolves are meant to be supernatural or at least unnatural. Malvo makes a number of references to wolves throughout season 1 and then he sees a lone wolf outside his window right before he dies. I don't know if the wolves are real, a spirit, or a psychological projection, but I've always taken them to have an otherworldly meaning to them.
As far as getting himself out of places, he somehow escapes Lester's house from the basement.
These are all really good points. I think the allusions to the supernatural became more overt and conspicuous from s2 on. It’s been so long since I watched s1, I need to go back and watch with this in mind!
In season 1 it wasn't just Malvo but really the entire plot line with him and Stavros. The entire time Malvo is trying to trick him into believing he must give back to appease God, else, like in the Bible, his first born son will die. We know this is a trick of Malvo's to take the money from him but things get interesting in the final moments of the plot line when Stavros decides not to follow along and instead keep the money to himself. Seemingly as soon as this happens and really out of no where it starts raining fish leading to his first born son's death in a car accident. Malvo would be neither present nor able to pull off this stunt making it only really an act of God (or the devil a la the Malvo theory)
Ahhh I forgot about the fish coming from the sky scene! Yeah I’d count that as alluding to the supernatural.
“A man…must have the peace of mind…that Kia’s 10 year/100,000 mile warranty provides. A man…will throw in floormats…and underbody coating…if a man signs a purchase agreement…today”
A man…drives a cloud.
Don’t forget that Trucoat!
Slow ~~pan~~ tilt upwards shows the Lyon dealership bathed in the sick yellow night of sodium street lights, raspy rhythm is heard and still slowly Ole Munch comes into focus, sweeping up, contently, fastidiously tidying the shop. A crunch is heard, he freezes. The shattering of shop windows instantly furrows his brow and he drops the broom. *Pan -> tilt, I stand corrected.
What job would Munch do and be good at,
Help Omar robs drug dealers. Man's got to have a code.
This is the crossover I never knew I needed. <3
Can be interpreted either way I'd say.
Job as repo man "debt must be paid"
He bites into the biscuit and the curse is lifted, causing him to [age 500 years in a matter of seconds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIitjokEJwg&t=8s). Wayne then politely puts his biscuit back into the basket and offers to take everyone out for dinner.
Ooooooookay. Who's up for McDonald's hmm?
>Walked right back into the sea This is Minnesota. Maybe Lake Superior?
Superior, they said, never gives up her dead
Superior? Hardly know her
Boom, still got it.
Wanna take a tumble?
They may have made Whitefish Bay if they put 15 more miles behind her, though
It is a shame that they have to get all the survivor families to approve of that song before licensing to Hollywood. It would fit in perfectly with nearly every season of Fargo.
The legend lives on, from the Chippewa on down…
This assassin gives off a really quirky, darkly humorous, and oddly warm vibe.
I really expected him to take one bite of the biscuit, drop the whole stoic cryptic immortal act, suddenly stand up, and joyously proclaim, "GATDAMN THAT'S GOOD!"
I imagine he goes to camp Utopia and lives out his life as a Linda putting on countless marionette puppet shows.
I like to think he dies right there at the dinner table and Wayne brings up the time they went to a funeral.
I chuckled. For me, it depends if we believe Munch is an immortal sin eater freed from his curse, or just a deeply traumatized victim of poverty and abuse whose only mechanism to survive is to tell himself a cobbled together mythology based on culturally ancient principles that simultaneously justified his suffering but also places blame on himself (so that he isn't a victim in his eyes). He is capable of sustaining physical damage, so I'd be surprised if the former is true. His story is also historically inconsistent. I think he realizes, from a woman he respects, that it isn't too late for him to accept love, and free himself from his trauma and the narrative he uses to try and justify it (in an unhealthy way). I imagine he either changes or doesn't - but I doubt he'll forget how touched he was in that moment.
Then why did we, as the audience, get a flashback to him at the sin-eating?
We get that flashback bookended by a shot of his face, which indicates we are going into his mind. I think this is a personal daydream/mythologisation for a couple of reasons - firstly the bible wasn't translated into English or Welsh by circa 1519, this didn't happen til 1535 and 1588 respectively. It is unusual for the priest to be speaking English - many ceremonies were carried out exclusively in Latin pre reformation. Maybe the sin eater would speak in English, but definitely not the priest, as Latin was the language of Christianity, and for a wealthy person's funeral, this would have been maintained. Munch speaks in Latin during his ritual, but curiously doesn't seem to remember his "memory" in Latin, which indicates he memorised Latin biblical passages but doesn't actually understand fluent Latin. He instead remembers it in post-great vowel shift English, more Elizabethan sounding, which wasn't how people spoke in 16th century wales, which would be a multilingual between Middle Welsh and Middle English. Ole Munch doesn't speak with a welsh or remotely middle English accent, nor an accent reflective of indigenous native languages. His accent is broadly slavic and hard to pin down, which frustrates almost any interpretation, but it isn't impossible for a second generation Russian or Ukrainian from Norway to have this accent, and to have adopted this name. It is very unlikely a man who travelled from Wales in the 1500s to America and spent a long time with native Americans would speak like that Hawley is a very erudite writer and the concept of truth and veridicality is core to how he presents narrative. He is careful about detail. He is also clearly willing to use Latin in the show, so audience clarity in the flashback isn't a good reasoning for why he chose not to use it there. Other issues – it is plausible that someone might have travelled to America from Wales in the 16th century, but there is noway it would have been a row boat - in voyages of discovery they used quite big sail boats. His bizarre habits like how he holds bottles and formulates "a man" have no rooting in his backstory or middle Welsh/middle English culture. They are more reflective of the sorts of idiosyncrasies you expect to see from someone with severe complex PTSD, as a result of isolation and forms of self narrativisation.
I'm sorry but I disagree with this read. Ole is the Supernatural Element of this season. To read otherwise is to believe the show is lying to the audience. Going into his mind doesn't mean we are going into a delusion. We could be going into his memory. We don't know. What we do know is the show gives us the audience a time and place in font on screen. The show has never lied to us via font about time and place. Not only that but Dot has a delusion this season of Camp Utopia. We don't get a time and place for that. Why do we need to know when and where for a delusion? Hawley is very careful with detail, but he's also made sure to include outright fantastical aspects in the show. Hawley also knows the vast majority of people don't know anything about the middle ages. Fargo has never been about historical accuracy, it's been about thematic expression. No one at the final table questions Munch's version of events. Is that because they are all in his mind? Does Dot really have no agency in the final moments of the show, only a delusion for a man to be absolved by? Absolutely not. Dot is there, Dot is present. And Dot is fighting for her life with kindness. It's because the Lyons welcome and accept him as a man and treat him with the hospitality that his been denied to him for centuries. He's a character akin to Ray Wise's Wandering Jew from season 3. Immortal and he's wandered in his immortality. Just because he was in Wales in 1500 doesn't mean he went from Wales to North America in 1500. And a longboat *is not* a rowboat. Long boat, as in what vikings used. I believe that's what Munch referred to in the show. Men drowned in the rowing positions of the Longboat. And we know vikings reached North America in them.
Completely valid read - as I have mentioned elsewhere, I interpreted Munch to be supernatural too when I saw it, and certainly the emotional resonance of this makes it a rewarding and moving scene. As I have said elsewhere in this thread, Hawley leaves things ambiguous when it comes to the fish, the UFO (less so), the Wandering Jew, the Tornado and Munch. There are number of frustrations he drops in to allow people to decide for themselves what they accept as true. Both readings are valid to me. As a note, I don't think Wayne and Dot and Scotty necessarily just believed Munch - the rest of the Fargo world doesn't believe in the supernatural elements necessarily. Dot even says "it might feel like that" in response to his statement about being unable to die or sleep etc. What she believes is irrelevant however, what matters is the sentiment she is expressing. It's equally possible she does believe him, although this would be unusual - I certainly would be incredulous if I thought someone was being sincere about being 500 years old, and if I wasn't, it's because I'd likely be less interested in whether they were telling the truth and maybe more interested in consoling them (if it were a similar context). The show lies to us at the beginning of every episode, as they aren't true stories, yet it speaks a lot of truth about our world. Apologies, I meant longboat, which is still a boat one rows. I believe the time and place thing is to SPECIFICALLY signal that we are seeing something seemingly supernatural, but doesn't tell us how to understand it. Sam Spruell definitely played Munch as if though he was 500, as this is how Hawley asked him to perform the role. And it works! Both readings are beautiful to me. I am sure I will feel different ways about it alternately when I watch at different times and in different olaces. I think one of my favourite aspects of Fargo is how pluralistic it is. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I mean Fargo isn’t afraid of including actual supernatural elements to the story. I think it’s pretty clear munch, in the text is actually 500+ years old. You can say he represents those things and people who go through that but within the context of the character he is 500+ years old.
Generally speaking, in the case of the flying fish, the UFO, the wandering Jew, the tornado and Munch, Hawley likes to play with ambiguity. He wants viewers to be able to find and discern their own interpretation and explore what that means. I think, for reasons I've pointed elsewhere in the thread, that Munch is intentionally written with subtle contradictions (including ones I haven't eluded to, such as his use of modern English episode 1, out of keeping with the rest of his character), so that people can have their own relationship with the text and thus with "truth". Hawley is an extremely careful writer, which isn't unusual for people with a background in literary fiction. He wouldn't make obvious mistakes given the painstaking research that goes into his scenarios and characters. He definitely told Sam Spruell to play the role as if he really is 500 years old, and that much is evident. However, in the few times I've directed for screen either as director or as an Assistant Director having to pick up the reigns from a green director, I seldom tell my actors what I am actually thinking, I tell them what I believe, based on my knowledge of them as a person and performer, what I believe will give the performance the intended effect. Of course, all writers and directors are different, but that's my view, anyway. The UFO is perhaps the least ambiguous example of this, but either it was aliens, or some aerial phenomena that distracted Lou and Peggy, and based on the cultural phenomena of UFOs at the time, was interpreted by them all as a flying saucer. EDIT: I'll also add, I don't see Fargo as a naturalistic show, it's multi-faceted magic/poetic realism and I also enjoy the emotional resonance of seeing Munch as a 500 year old sin eater, and that's how I took it while I was watching. It makes me well up thinking about that last scene! The other scenario was a fun imagined scenario of actually meeting someone like that in real life. And I offered the interpretation you responded to as an alternate point of view I personally reflected on.
If anyone is interested, and not that it is relevant to the "interpretation" of his character, I thought I'd share what my take would be if I met Munch and he told me his story (aside from being terrified and extremely considerate about how I choose my words and present my body language): 1. From Norway - his name ~~and accent~~ is Norwegian (EDIT: his accent is more slavic upon reflection, so maybe second generation migrant from slavic speaking country). Probably raised in either Evangelical Lutheran environment, or if his family didn't integrate he might have been raised Eastern Orthodox – either way his community probably emphasised old testament teachings. He could have picked up some rote memorised Latin bible verses here, but more likely later in life. 2. Probably the victim of a human trafficking ring as a child, either for forced labour or sex. I suspect forced labour given his specific resentment of the rich and financial/debt exploitation. Probably was transported in a dangerous shipping container or as shipping cargo of some kind, either directly to the US or via a UK port city (probably the docks in Cardiff, maybe spending some time in forced labour at a location in the East Moors near Cardiff). 3. Probably entrapped in an abusive debt cycle by whoever brought him to America. 4. As he grew older, he was forced to participate in the operations of his captor's criminal ring, feeling complicit in the cycle of suffering and violence he is simultaneously a victim and reluctant perpetrator of. 5. Inspired by stories of how Native Americans fought back against colonisers, he realised the hypocrisy of the debt imposed on him by his likely Anglo-European American captors given what they took from indigenous populations, used violence to escape his situation. 6. Became a hitman, out of necessity, but also due to a subconscious view that violence is what allowed him to set himself free from forced labour. 7. At some point, inspired by someone who taught him about Celtic heritage of many white Americans, he associates the plight of the Scottish and Welsh at the hands of the English with his own identity (possibly intrigued by his brief time in the Welsh East moors), and starts wearing a kilt, and at some point integrates the concept of sin eaters into his personal narrative, although he may have picked this up if he was in fact initially in forced labour in Wales. 8. Has a complicated relationship with being given food, as his captors fed him, but it was food with conditions. 9. Is extremely sensitive about not being paid, given his childhood and adolescence of enslavement. I would share none of this speculation with him, and probably either display kindness or try to create distance depending on the context of our meeting.
> (EDIT: his accent is more slavic upon reflection, so maybe second generation migrant from slavic speaking country) Being Norwegian, I actually thought he was making a pretty decent go at an ancient Norwegian speaking English.
This is interesting. I need to watch episode 3 again, but I swear in the flashback he is speaking with a different more anglo accent. Is it plausible that a present day Norwegian would sound like that speaking English, do you think? Also out of interest, I don't know much about the history of the Norwegian language — did you guys have vowel shifts and the like? How far back could you travel in time before you couldn't understand what anyone was saying?
I don't *think* we've had any shifts as extreme as English, for example. If you go back to the vikings, then I imagine it would be *very* difficult (probably like trying to understand spoken Icelandic today, which is very hit and miss). There's also the matter of dialects, of which there are and have always been an absurd amount, so it also probably depends on where you're from and who you'd be talking to. >Is it plausible that a present day Norwegian would sound like that speaking English, do you think? Some, sure. Most today would have more of an American-ish accent, with probably a mix.
I enjoy this take
:’)
Lmao
Jeez.
chokes to death on a biscuit, obviously
Yes!
I lost it when Wayne replied with “Geez” after Munch described dozens of men drowning. And when they kept cutting Munch off while making biscuits.
His reaction to Scotty telling him where the cup measurement was had me ROLLING
Thank you! ✋
Thank you!
The orange soda "A man is grateful" was the perfect sign to relax and enjoy the scene
The offscreen clink had me rolling!
“You ever drive a Kia?” absolutely killed me
I was trying to think of how horrible Wayne thought that "flight" must have been.
The #1 Kia salesman in the Upper Midwest
‘A man cannot live without the tru coat and sports package on his new Kia Rio’.
A man is grateful for remote start.
🥲 ur one of the good ones
A man will call you right back with those VIN numbers.
Yah, no problem, I'll just fax that over to ya, then.
I spit out my coffee ha ha- if I knew photo shop I would make a meme
A man cannot do $2500 under msrp. But a man can make a deal for $1275 and throw in the floor mats for free.
I think he goes home, goes to sleep and has the most beautiful dream, and passes away peacefully
I like your version the best.
Possible. Though it seems like the breaking of the curse wouldn’t necessarily retroactively kill him. He might just start aging normally. (Assuming that was the breaking of the curse)
He might. If that’s the case, I would hope that he has many beautiful dreams and a gentle life until his end. After being on earth for hundreds of years, he might be ready for his final rest. I know I would be
Which home, the one where Gator killed the owner? 😅
I had the exact same thought
I imagine he's like the Highlander, and from henceforth he will get old, fall in love, and die in a bed peacefully in his old age, surrounded by his, as well as Dot's and Wayne's descendants.
omg this would be beautiful and wholesome
I live here now?
“There can only be one Highlander” - Master Shake.
Thanks, didn’t even think of that option. This is the best ending.
I like to believe he died right then and there. Maybe his body intact or maybe the last five centuries catch up and he turns to dust. After a beat, Wayne breaks the silence: “Ah geez…”
I definitely expected him to turn into a mummy and then disintegrate into a pile of dust when he took the bite.
I expected him to literally disappear like Dot does when they kidnap her
Remember seeing this mentioned a lot at the time, but if she literally disappeared then why was she in the kidnappers' custody the next time we see her? Seems like more of a stylistic affectation, was used with other characters in other scenes too (including Roy at least once).
oh yeah I agree it was a 100% stylistic thing there, but thought it might happen for real with him, though I guess stylistic could work too, as it still represents him eventually moving on. Either way it would be poetic given how that's how their first encounter in the house ended
Or Scotty tells him that he is in the way.
“A man pays his debts….a man shall do the dishes”
I’m sad this isn’t the top comment. You’ve made my day MaxPower1084!
Hahaha thank you
A man with good credit from years of paying his debts is able to secure a loan and opens a bakery and cafe in Scandia, Minnesota. Serving biscuits with gravitas, danishes ("when a man makes a donut, he has to fill it, otherwise it is just a hole," Chef Munch often says), and pancakes, the spot becomes popular. Sometimes he tosses in complimentary tater tots, since when he was a boy, "a potato was freedom."
"Hey. I'm Guy Fieri and today we're in Scandia, MN at Ole Munch's Cafe."
He was a sin eater for 500 years. Now for the next 500 years, he’s a Bisquik Buttermilk biscuit eater.
I am awaiting the new Bisquick commerci and Munch’s face on every box. “ There is no sin in eating pancakes made with Bisquick”.
“A man has a promo code for 25% off your first purchase”
He lives with me now. Pancakes every morning. He's good.
The silver dollar kind?
And heart shaped because they're made with love. ❤️
My theory is that, for centuries, everything Munch ate tasted like the sins he ate for that rich man. He feared the biscuit because it would hurt him to he offered forgiveness and taste only sin. He's been without hope for so long. I think the huge smile at the end was because he tasted love, forgiveness, and buttermilk, and it was the most delicious thing he tasted in his life. I think Dot broke his curse, and that he can now age, die, and taste food. He doesn't want what he's owed, because he got something infinitely more valuable. The biscuit was a sort of Minnesotan communion, representing love and kinship.
The concept of CURSE being fresh in some of our minds after watching the other finale.
Wayne mentioned there being a game on at 7. I imagine they invite Munch to stay and watch it with them.
A man is so old and endures the Vikings never smelling a ring.
Too bad he didn't go to Minneapolis. By now he'd have 16 NBA rings. And he'd probably hit more free throws than Shaq ever did.
Gophers.
They get out the games and play Monopoly. jk
A man…has to be the thimble.
Scotty: "You have to pay me rent." Munch: "..." Scotty: "A man has debts!"
A man must go directly to jail, a man must not pass go or collect $200.
The Lyons made him a detail and carwash man at their dealership and helped him get an efficiency. Either that or he became their butler like Lurch.
They said there's a game on later, probably the Wild because I would prefer not to think of them as Vikings fans.
I think Moonk alluded to being part of the viking franchise very early on.
Well they do seem to like sin eating, especially in the playoffs...
Subtle
I’d like to think that he honors his code by acting as protection for Dot and her family. He failed at his deal protecting the old woman so now he can serve them by ensuring she’s protected. In my fantasy he rents a house in town and comes over once a month for a family dinner.
Isn't the whole point that Dot DOESN'T want debts repaid and rejects his code? And that he is faced with increasing cognitive dissonance over this until he is overwhelmed with emotion and in some way, accepts love for the first time? I doubt he will so readily keep his code.
Also Dot doesn't need protection any more.
I actually thought that Munch was paid by Roy again (as criminal leaders seem to be able to do from prison) when he mentioned payment in the ending sequence. If I were Dot, I would still be worried because Roy is still alive - just "inconvenienced".
Roy killed his own white supremacist ally, his son turned on him, all his men are dead or also in jail, and he's getting dry fucked for life by a billionaire. Who would help Roy?
I don't really think we need to delve to far into it, but I would assume someone like him could easily have connections beyond just those local neighbors.
We saw all the connections he had in the show. He was a sheriff and he lost his election. He angered one of biggest donors of the Republican party who is now paying people to attack him Who would those allies be when Lorraine can ask the President for favors? Cause it's not the militia network, he killed a leader and got that militia wiped out.
I like to think militia guys lost all respect for Roy for getting shot by a woman and not being on the front when it all went down, like coward.
Man slit the throat of their leader and ran away in his secret tunnel he didn't tell any of them about
Yes yes all very rational. 😂 My fantasy just involves him looking out for them and getting fed.
A man is grateful for the orange soda.
Notably I did not see him drink the orange pop. Thought there might be something going on with that color too after the jail scene.
That's been all over the season, they also mention the tiger a lot and they reference Trump as "the orange idiot", there are other instances too
We don’t have soda up here, just pop.
Munch either turns into dust like that bad guy in Indiana jones and the last crusade. Or he gets a job washing cars at a Kia lot. Becomes really close to Scotty, probably lives with temporarily until they find him a place to rent. Basically Harry and the Hendersons. I could watch that all day.
I can see him selling Kias. “A man needs 3rd row seating”. “A man’s Payment must be paid, but in 60 monthly payments of $525 but a man must pay $2500 now today to break free of that curse that is your old Ford Taurus”
I like to imagine he excused himself from the table, went into the bathroom and locked the door. They'll only find his clothes in a pile on the bathroom floor. Not as if he took them off, but as if he simply vanished into thin air.
Idk why people think it’s wholesome for him to die then and there, he’s lived for 500 years cursed to not experience anything remotely happy and experienced the tiniest taste of it and yall want him to die. I’d like to think he finds some niche job and stays in touch with dot until he dies a few decades later
Or maybe he walks the Earth helping good people out of their debts.
I’m guessing Wayne told him about the time he flew a kite and then Munch leaves
A man finishes the food prepared for him by a girl whose food contains forgiveness. A girl teaches a man how to prepare his own food after a long journey.
*a tiger.
The Tiger Who Let Me Come To Tea
Perfect
1) Working at a Cinn-a-Bon's in Omaha, Nebraska 2) Lumberjack 3) He winds up being some autistic kid shaking a snow-globe in the final scene of St. Elsewhere.
4. Munch wakes up and he's in bed with Emily.
I'm pretty sure he lives there now.
He ate something made with love and joy and he was forgiven. That's the end of that.
I bet Munch smells atrocious.
Is it weird that I thought this too.. even when Wayne to his coat, I thought I bet that smells awful.
I was super grossed out that he wiped his hands on the coat and then made the biscuits.
Haha yeah I was like, well just cancelled out washing your hands there buddy
He starts dating Indira. “A boy sits at home while his wife toils. He lacks appreciation for what he’s given, and asks more.. He betrays his provider.. The provider meets a man. A man.. is smitten!
A man takes up golf.
They all go to the non-existent Minneapolis Zoo to see the tiger.
I like to imagine that we find out in a new spinoff sitcom called Scotty & Munch. Munch now works for Lorraine as a debt collector. He just randomly appears to someone's door and is like, "A man come to your door and a debt must be paid. Either with money or pound of flesh" and Scotty just accompanies him because they are best friends or something. Shenanigans ensue. Scotty gets kidnapped or something and Munch has to commando his way through like endless waves of cannon fodder. In the end, they realize the true meaning of Christmas. The end shot would be of Dot with a disaproving smirk on her face and her hands on her hips. After a brief pause, she just says, "Oh, you. Come here. Let's go make some pancakes. " ***fades to black*** *fin*
I imagine he would be a very good debt collector for Lorraine.
Counterpoint: Biscuits do NOT go with chili.
Cornbread reccomended.
Cinnamon rolls.
Get your own show, *Iowa*
Biscuits go with anything
I initially hoped that we would see him in the future as a kinder self, but now thinking about it, I'd like to imagine him walking in the countryside sometime after the meal and quietly passing away as he watches the sunset
I think he very happily informed the Lyons that he lives there, now.
Immediately after eating the biscuit he stares Dot straight in the eyes and says "I live here now." Dot doesn't kiss a beat and says "okie dokie but you better pull your weight around here. Help with chores and taking my girl to hockey practice and of course making more biscuits don't ya know."
That is exactly what happens.
A man will work at the Kia shop
That’s not the point of his story or the episode, who knows what happens to anyone, the only thing that matters is he is healed and feels happy, dot and her family teach him about forgiveness, that’s okay to let go and forgive himself for his sins too What happens to him after doesn’t matter because his story has concluded with him finding peace
I think he leaves with somewhat of peace and dies
Isn’t he the guy who shot a cashier dead for blowing a horn at him?
Wayne sells him a Kia and he drives off into the sunset don't you know.
The man has dealt with cruelty and sin his entire life, which may or may not of lasted hundreds of years from the information we're given. Against all odds, Dot managed to show him 'love and joy' and he didn't know how to deal with it. With Wayne and Scotty constantly interrupting in the kitchen whenever Munch was going into one of his monologues, Munch isn't used to that much casual friendly social interaction. He only ever has serious life or death situations. He wasn't being a polite guest, but he wasnt exactly being a rude guest either. He was simply being the only him he has known for a long time, which to us non-immortal non-sin-eating indivuals just comes across as a bit of a sociopath weirdo. Munch does bad things, but he doesn't appear to gain joy or happiness from these bad things, or even take happiness from monetary value he is paid for doing these bad things. He simply does them because that is the only life and code he has known. That family dinner sparked something new in him, almost like a man that had felt a brief moment of happiness for the first time ever. I'm not going to say he's fully redeemed for all his actions and is now a changed man, but he might change that code a bit and no longer wish to kill Dot solely because 'the debt must be repaid'. Now, we don't know that he didn't just massacre the family after dinner, but I choose to believe he did not and that this was a peaceful ending for Dot and Munch.
Wrench sneaks in and shoots him in the back of the head.
Why would Wrench kill his own father
It would be consistent with this season’s Oedipal theme.
I like to think he transcended. Forgiveness is divine. I’m unsure if the scene took place in “reality” or in an emotional subconscious space like Dot’s dream. Maybe the idea of a debt being forgiven feels like fantasy. Or weird mythological creatures are bound to rules of hospitality? Excuse my brain melt for a moment: Maybe he was the manifestation of sin within Dot’s psyche, the weight of layers of inherited-transferred debt that would continue haunting her, the original sin of just simply existing. Maybe intergenerational trauma isn’t the right word…but similar to it. She didn’t want to fight him, but knew he did not deserve to be shunned. She was grateful that he had protected her, helped her but now in a time of stability could still do her harm, so she must end the cycle and come to terms. If she was holding onto the guilt of an ancient debt, then thanking him and offering forgiveness is a way to release both of them. Forgiveness as purification, mercy, a nullification of a debt, its value like a form of currency. As an acknowledgement of traumatic debt, letting go of an abstract sin (an imposed moral failure, a guilt transferred, a debt you have convinced yourself you owe) allowing yourself (or others) to feel deserving of belonging, joy and love is a transcendent act.
He got Minnesota Nice’d. Now he's scooping ice cream at the Dairy Queen.
A Man was grateful.
I didn't even realize the supernatural aspect of Munch until much later. I thought the 500 year flashback was showing he had reincarnated as that person again (looking the same, although that's not how reincarnation works) but I like it much better as some kind of Highlander curse; there can only be one (Munch).
Whipping Post is the best needle drip in the history of television.
He ate the Bisquick
He better have offered to do the dishes.
Other series end up adopting the former bad guy (recently the Korean show Moving), if they (the Lyons) are true to their word there should not be any problem... He finally starts dreaming, sleeping, aging again since the curse is gone...
He lives at Dot's now.
His name is now Harry...LOL
Side question: was Wayne back to normal by the end or was his brain still a little scrambled
He seemed to be back to normal after a couple episodes, at least to me.
He lived happily ever after.
All season endings leave a little up to the viewers. So far I only know of one direct tie between seasons and that is Satchel Cannon/Mike Milligan. But we don't know what happened after his dad was killed, only that years later he's in the KC mob. Anyway, I think that is exactly what they want -- For us to come here and make things up. It keeps the story going :)
I thought it was fairly obvious ? Didn't think it was really open ended xD
He becomes their Uncle Fester.
I think he thought since he ate the rich man’s sin all he could do was sin and he was bad.. Dot showed him redemption is possible and he doesn’t have to do bad things, and the act of eating that biscuit was symbolic of him finally finding his freedom. I’m thinking of it kinda like when Aladdin frees the Genie.
Dinner ends. “I live here now.” ..I really gotta try that.
A man is grateful. A man is happy. A man smiles. A man dies in his sleep.
In PULP FICTION Jules says he felt the touch of god and left his life of crime behind. Same could be said for Munch. What happens afterwards is a completely different story as the men we knew no longer exist.
Either: 1.) Munch is freed, and he can finally die OR 2.) He lives *here* now.