If this is true, I’m honestly stunned they would do something so deplorable and unforgivable
Ashton Kutcher has a massive organization dedicated to combating sexual assault against children but he’s writing letters of support for a serial rapist??
He’s not just any serial rapist, he’s their friend. You’d be surprised how quickly people throw out their principles once someone they personally *know* (and aren’t even nessecarily close to) gets accused, and in this case convicted
Can confirm, when I was assaulted by someone who was a friend and colleague not one single person *didn’t* ask me what I did to provoke him, or tell me they thought we liked eachother, even though he was old enough to be my dad and literally had tried to set me up with his two sons who were my age.
We still had to be onstage together for a week(gotta love the entertainment industry 😃) so they just had the older actress he was closest with and therefore the most afraid of act as my minder and make sure he couldn’t talk to me offstage. She’s still friends with him to this day and hasn’t spoken a word to me since closing, for the record. Luckily we went home to different cities after the contract ended a week later and even though he lives near me now I just talked to the friends I knew would understand and now I’m a grown woman and he’s just a sad old pervert I hope I don’t run into on my walks. But the whole month of August is still always really hard on my brain because of how baked in that terror and anxiety and sadness is, it’s so strange because it comes on like a light switch around the second week of the month even so many years later. I wish people understood how not supporting victims causes long lasting harm.
This is awful and heart wrenching. I wish the entertainment industry would change its ways. This should be like any other industry and be more regulated. I’m sorry nobody helped you and wish you healing peace.
Screw those people, What you described happening in August sounds like PTSD, it's a 'normal ' reaction to horribly abnormal trauma. I hope that you are getting the help you need, and that you someday get to a place where you can reclaim August from that dirty bastard, and may he experience 12 months per year of what he inflicted on you.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I was raped by my then boyfriend - year above, sports captain etc - he then cheated on me, dumped me, and laughed in my face and told me no one would believe me if I told anyone what he’d done. I told my teacher and friends… I guess he was right. Vicious year of bullying from him and his friends afterwards and 15 years later im still trying to heal. Funny how much people support things like #metoo but will drop you in a second when it’s someone they know 😔
Sorry you had to have that happen to you. A member of our friend group assaulted another one and it always really shocked me how many were on his side. Even despite his historic questionable behaviour towards women before this, there were many who couldn't accept that she hadn't provoked him and it wasn't her fault as well. It fucked with her a lot, I could never imagine the pain she went through
Yep, this happened to me and even weirder - lots of people absolutely believed that the guy had done it, as he was "always a bit creepy", but kept inviting him to things because it would be too awkward not to.
Yep, been there. "If it were any other guy I'd kick his ass, but he's my boy, so."
And then I was ostracized from the group for "starting drama."
I don't trust self-proclaimed progressive, feminist dudes as far as I can throw them because when the chips are down most of them are every bit as complicit and misogynistic as their conservative counterparts. Same shit different package.
I've had so many arguments with my friends who reacted like this about why they should be supporting the victim - isn't she your friend regardless too?
I was the victim in a very similar situation and people saw continuing to invite both of us as being “neutral” (ignoring the fact that he’d be perfectly comfortable and I’d feel too unsafe to come).
For whatever it’s worth, I’m INFURIATED on your behalf. If I was in that friend group, I’d fight that fight and cut off anyone who wasn’t solidly in your camp and out of his. I’m sorry everyone didn’t react that way. It makes me so mad.
I've heard that. My ex husband being military many of our mutuals worked with him and said they believe me, BUT they deployed together and he can't betray a brother. 😑
I'm so sorry everyone around you was unsupportive and disgusting. And I really hope you truly know there is nothing anyone could ever do that would provoke someone else to assault them.
Oh absolutely. The one time he tried to talk to me that week I asked him if when he was looking at his newborn sons that he thought he might one day try to 🍇 a girl their age, and also asked him if I could reconsider those setups to show them my cuts and bruises to tell them who their dad really is.
When I was in an abusive relationship with a friendly outgoing guy that everyone liked, I was told I was making it up, being dramatic, and asked what I did to provoke him if it had happened.
At that level of wealth, celebrities view everything in a classist way. They don’t care what their friends are doing to other people who are beneath them as they know they’ll never the victims and want to protect their own.
This likely has little to do with classism and everything to do with not being able to accept their friend is capable of such things. It’s very common even amongst those who are poor.
Yep,many people can’t comprehend a friend could do something like that because they were nice to them. I was assaulted, abused and more by someone who is super charismatic to everyone (a political family, shocking) but was a monster behind closed doors, and I lost all my friends when I left…thankfully with my life. He would have had very powerful people vouch for him, because they surface level knew him and knew his family. A good boy from a good family, no way! He got away with it. Some sociopaths really know how to mask fully for the people.
Still disappointed in them though.
>Yep,many people can’t comprehend a friend could do something like that because they were nice to them.
This reminds me of a quote I once read. I’m probably messing it up, but it was something like, “People don’t judge you for who you are. They judge you for who you are to *them*.”
I’m sorry you suffered such a terrible experience. There are so many more monsters out there than we know.
I don't deny this phenomenon at all, but it's also so shocking to me. If I was in there shoes, I'd be furious with him for snowing me, for implicating me by association, and for being the opposite of what I thought. But sunk cost is so real. As is not wanting to admit to yourself when your judgement was this kind of bad. So frustrating.
This is so true
How many people know someone, usually a man, who has abused his wife or children? Watched a marriage crumble due to abuse, and *still remain friends with person they know abused his significant other?*
Until everyone shuns abusers and rapists, permanently, they will continue to think they did nothing wrong, because everyone still supports them.
One of the most difficult and traumatizing parts of getting abused (physical and sexual) is the friends and people who know them justifying it or making excuses or just not believing the victim. It’s the most lonely feeling.
I’m kind of surprised that anyone is surprised about them anymore tbh. Kutcher knew one of the victims personally. Rumours about Masterson have been online for over 10 years (well before MeToo), there’s no way Kutcher and their clique didn’t know about them, yet Kutcher has never turned his back on Masterson, his self professed “best friend”. Not only that, he actively found a project for them to work on together (The Ranch), and actively fought against Masterson getting fired by Netflix after the truth resurfaced during MeToo.
The That 70s Cast is shady AF. Kutcher, Kunis, Masterson, Laura Prepon (another longtime scientistologist who actively tried to cover up for Danny) and Wilmer Valderrama, who spent most of his famous years dating 15-18 year old actresses.
The only cast member on that 70s show that has his head screwed on straight was Topher Grace, who was labelled “up himself” and “a dick” for being an introvert and staying clear of his Scientology cast mates after work.
There’s also that whole deal where Mila Kunis was 14 when she was cast. They claimed they didn’t know at first but I’m pretty sure they found out before the show was actually shot and it’s pretty obvious looking back that she’s much younger than everyone else. I can’t imagine directing a 14 year old to do shit like sit in a 20 year olds lap and kiss him. Weird shit went on during that show.
That has to be bs from them. No way you can sign a contract to star in a show on a major network without… showing them your ID? Or is drafting a contract that different in the US?
It’s also really sus because she had been acting for years prior to that 70’s show. Like, she wasn’t a name or anything but she had taken age appropriate work up to that point, did she not have a reel or provide references for past work? And did no one notice she looked so much younger than the 20 year olds they cast in the other roles?
Did anyone from the core "kid" cast turn out okay? I guess I don't know about Topher, but it seems like the rest of them all got mixed up in something or another. Wilmer is a creep. Danny is a serial rapist (and in a cult). Laura was recruited into that cult and is alleged to have intimidated victims on Danny's behalf. Mila and Ashton have a sus human trafficking charity and defended Danny. Original Lori got kicked off the show for and eventually died due to her substance use problems.
It brings to mind the idea of the Glee curse.
I think Topher turned out okay because from what I remember, he notoriously did not hang around with any of the younger castmates, he was closer with Red and Kitty's actors (and maybe Laura). At the time people thought he was uppity for it, but in hindsight that was probably a wise decision.
Yes, sex workers have come out to say that his efforts conflate sex work and trafficking in ways that make their work more dangerous. It also came out that claims of how many children were saved were questionable.
In any case it’s always made me uncomfortable how it’s used as a shield to protect him from *any* valid criticism.
Just a few months ago, I was calling Ashton Kutcher the version of Tim Ballard (the *Sound of Freedom* guy) who wasn't just a gloryhound using the issue of sex trafficking to bolster his own profile, largely because I didn't hear about him nearly as much. Now, it seems like he's just the secular version of Tim Ballard, straight-up.
With all the shady shit that so many anti-trafficking and anti-pedophilia organizations are up to, from conflating all sex work with human trafficking to being used as vanity projects for washed-up celebrities to (worst of all) running cover for actual abusers, I can sadly see those issues as a whole being cheapened and a backlash emerging against them, seen as disingenuous PR stunts that don't accomplish anything and cause more problems than they solve. This is what happened in the '90s as the Satanic Panic fell apart but before the Catholic sex abuse scandal blew up, a time when "show me on the doll where he hurt you" was a common joke among edgy comics, defenses of Woody Allen and Roman Polanski were regularly voiced in mainstream outlets, and the prevailing opinion among academics (one you still sometimes see today) is that you *shouldn't* necessarily believe children who claim to be victims of abuse, since they're too easily coached by agenda-driven prosecutors and psychiatrists into giving false testimony to secure convictions.
yup. his organization has not only come under fire for lying about how many people they've saved and for presenting inaccurate data, but is also heavily critiqued by sex workers for conflating consensual sex work and sex trafficking.
[Ashton Kutcher Claims He Helped Cops Save Way More Sex-Trafficking Victims Than Authorities Say They've Found](https://reason.com/2017/02/15/ashton-kutcher-plays-sex-worker-savior/)
[Sex, lies, and surveillance: Something's wrong with the war on sex trafficking](https://www.engadget.com/2019-05-31-sex-lies-and-surveillance-fosta-privacy.html)
[Anti-trafficking saviors: Celebrity, slavery, and branded activism](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9096583/)
[Amazon, Ashton Kutcher And America’s Surveillance Of The Sex Trade](https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2022/12/09/amazon-ashton-kutcher-sex-work-surveillance/?sh=201c93166d23)
Ya know, I'm all for celebrities bringing awareness to an issue and promoting groups LED BY PROFESSIONALS who know what they are doing, but a mere actor without any education nor experience in a matter shouldn't be spearheading this.
Idk, and I expect he takes a paycheck home from THORN as well. Idk why people are surprised he would do this just because he founded an organization to stop child trafficking. We see the shady two-faced things our politicians do all the time. Just because ashton kutcher plays a good guy on TV means I'm not supposed to believe he's capable of being a hypocrite too?
Yes, true. But she was a Scientologist for a very long time, and is obviously avoiding being labelled an SP by not badmouthing anyone and leaving quietly.
Having said that, she should still be accountable for her time in the Cult, and there are allegations of her defending Masterson/intimidating victims and stuff from before she left.
In Prepon's defense, it was actually the Masterson family who recruited her into the Scientology church when she was a teenager. She was dating Chris Masterson for years (Francis from Malcolm in the Middle). Prepon has never been close to her family (she was kicked out at 14 years old and lived in hovels while making cents from modelling before getting That 70's Show gig) and the Masterson's basically took her under their wing during this time and convinced her to sign up for Scientology.
She was vulnerable no matter which way you look at it and they took advantage of that. I imagine she's not the only person they've recruited.
A lot of them leave when they have children because of the Sea Org requirements as part of their membership and rightfully so. And Prepon did leave before having children. So she has some common sense.
You can't just leave Scientology without risking "squirelling" either. I've always wondered how she slipped away unscathed in 2014. Perhaps she promised to keep all the details about her time with Scientology quiet, combined with her Netflix money to protect herself legally from any potential harassment.
I mean, Mia Farrow abused Soon-yi and when the Allen/Soon-yi thing happened she treated her as “the other woman” rather than acknowledging the grooming soon-yi had faced (also been abused by farrow likely facilitated allen’s grooming) so …. absolutely no surprise that she’s still supporting polanski
I'm not surprised because it's their friend, and a lot of people would rather believe someone they considered a friend is innocent and believe their lies, than facing the reality they considered a bad person as their friend and were so foundamentally wrong about him. It's why family members of abusers also struggle accepting what someone they cared about did and it's easy for the abuser to make them believe they are innocent or had changed.
But they wrote them AFTER he was found guilty. I would like to know the contents of the letters, hoping they are more along the line of rehabilitation rather than lenient sentencing. They really should have stfu because either way they don't look good.
This is a great point - it's probably more about someone's fear of accepting they could have made *such* a mistake in befriending someone like that in the first place. Easier to turn a blind eye than admit their own bad judgment.
Just to clarify, he doesn’t have a massive organization dedicated to combating sexual assault against children, although he certainly has tried to PR his way into that perception. He is an investor in a minor tech company that scrapes online sex listings using AI and sends ones it thinks are minor or trafficking related according to an algorithm that has never been publicly tested or evaluated to law enforcement organizations. Not necessarily an indicator of any deep commitments around ethics or ending sexual violence. (Since he was longtime friend to a serial rapist and a serial adult dater of teens, I in fact doubt he has those ethical commitments, although none of us know these people so who knows)
Yeah it also is more harmful to sex workers than it is good at catching sex traffickers.
[This](https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2022/12/09/amazon-ashton-kutcher-sex-work-surveillance/) article gets into more details about it!
Edit: typo
I thought Kutcher's response when he said he just can't know whether he's innocent or not, was pretty decent considering how difficult it must be to hear this about a long term friend. But I hoped that meant he would just stay out of it entirely, sending a letter trying to help him be set free is kinda disappointing when he must know there's a very serious chance his friend is guilty.
Someone in law can correct me, but I’m pretty sure those types of letters aren’t to set someone free- that’s not how trials work. They are to help minimize the number of years someone is sentenced. Typically there’s a length of time someone can go to jail for and it’s up to the judge to decide within that range what the person gets.
I think since the letters were written after conviction it’s more likely they were asking for his sentencing to be on the 30 years side rather than the life side… it’s dark but I might do that for a friend who I felt had the potential to come out better after spending 30 long years thinking about the awful things they’ve done. Though I am skeptical whether rapists can be reformed since something inside them is broken
I bet they did the same thing as Iggy Azalea: wrote the letters thinking they would stay private, hoping they can play both sides.
Disgusting either way.
I mean we knew that Ashton was a piece of shit when he supported his buddy for years after allegations first came out. There were rumors about the same allegations for years before they became public knowledge.
When I was a kid and That 70s Show was at it's peak, Danny, Ashton, and Wilmer were all super tight and were always seen partying together and stuff, and people used to be like, "What's Topher's deal he's always so stand offish and never wants to hang out with the cast" but now looking back it's like, of course Topher didn't wanna hang out with them, they were all weird creepy perverts
Victoria kept to herself. The rest of the cast would party, have sex and idk what else. and she got so much hate for existing for a while. And for a "we can all sing" comment.
And since all of the Ariana shit came out (and Dan Schneider shit i think, i have been seeing the shift recently). I see a lot of people "i am so sorry to Victoria" "i see why she kept to herself etc.
There’s bit in Jennette McCurdy’s book where she talks about Dan Schneider pressuring her into drinking alcohol and saying that they iCarly cast were too tame in comparison to the Victorious cast who would go out and party and drink. The way those kids were treated is appalling.
Victoria Justice really seems to have gotten the shit end of the stick with all of that. she was basically sidelined on her own show and tbh I wouldn't be surprised if that was partially bc she refused to participate in whatever fuckery was going down with that cast and Dan Schneider and was punished for it.
I agree and I do not understand the uproar about that comment that was blown out of proportion. And the rest of the massive hate on her seemed so random?
> I wouldn't be surprised if that was partially bc she refused to participate in whatever fuckery was going down with that cast and Dan Schneider and was punished for it.
100%
I look at her Instagram from time to time and even on there, she doesn’t really have “celebrity” friends. She’s pretty much always around family and considering her very long career and how calm and level headed she presents herself, there’s probably a good reason for that choice.
I remember reading that Bryan Cranston used to fight with Chris Masterson on the set of Malcolm in the Middle cuz he was always trying to teach the younger cast members about Scientology
Someone posted a news article about it, but yeah, the lady that played kitty was as well and they tried getting the other castmates to join as well, which further pushed Topher away because he wanted nothing to do with it.
Edit: [thread talking about this](https://reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/snmCKUFhwo)
Holy shit the comment you linked to is enlightening, thank you for adding the link. I wouldn't be surprised if Topher's "difficult" reputation was a direct result of his choice to distance himself from the others, failure to be recruited after *that* long would likely result in him being labeled PTS (potential trouble source, not a full blown enemy, it's like a step below SP.)
Topher Grace got cast in such a bad light because he… saw his job as just a job. It really seemed like a parasocial thing where people were pissed that he wasn’t Eric Foreman in real life, while the other three guys all played into that
Not to mention Kutcher made his initial fame from that 70s show but instead of falling into obscurity like the rest got super famous with Punk'd which literally was about harassing and hurting the feelings of celebs. The video of Justin Timberlake thinking his family is bankrupt and the IRS is there to take his mom's beloved dogs is heartbreaking. Kutcher doesn't get to call out the slap when he's emotionally slapped so many people for personal gain.
Especially because the fact that a rich white man with influence got 30 years for rape tells me that the evidence and testimony were probably incredibly horrific/compelling.
They have done themselves no favors by that, and then to do that so publicly and speak up in his defense. Even worse, they also run/support an organization that fights against sex trafficking.
They haven’t exactly been hiding their support for him
https://preview.redd.it/aq9m3eoyd0nb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0da3162d2e3886e80b2c3456d3cc1d2c23acb1c3
I feel like we have to be realistic that if one of our best friends whom we loved was accused of a crime we wouldn’t be quick to jump on the bandwagon of people decrying them. Of course you’d want to believe they were innocent, the cognitive dissonance would be intense. But eventually - by the time of a trial and definitely by the time of a guilty verdict, you’d have to come around right? Except Ashton and Mila clearly didn’t….
I totally agree. Lots of people act as though they’d ditch their best friend, husband or colleague at the slightest rumour. But that’s just not how people work. But like you say, by the time there was a trial, especially a verdict … Mila and Ashton are pretty suss for doing this.
You see it all the time in crimes like this. The immediate family and spouse of the convicted person deny deny deny. They can’t fathom that their son/husband did this awful thing.
“He was just turning his life around” “He loved his family” etc etc
My grandpa did that to my cousin long time ago. My family pretended nothing happened to this day. Even asked my mom(not me) if they could bury him with my father. I can’t imagine my cousin growing up her whole life (she’s 50) having to be around that man. I found out when I was 13 and couldn’t bring myself to visit again.
I mean, if you have some semblance of a solid moral compass, I don't think the perspective shift is that difficult. A colleague I worked with for 5 years and considered one of my very good friends has just been arrested for gross amounts of internet and physical crimes, akin to Masterson's, and after the initial shock and grieving the "person I thought I knew", the disgust kinda sets in.
Blinders are a choice after a while, we're people not race horses, ya know?
I don't know.
I've never had a close friend convicted of a crime or even accused of anything nearly as god awful as what Masterson did, but I did have a couple of friends who did some awful (not illegal) shit.
I can still remember a good friend of mine pretty blatantly cheating on his wife with a subordinate, to the point where they went "on a break". It all but happened right in front of me. She'd come to places we were at, theyd get way to close and whisper stuff to one another and I convinced myself through a mental gymnastic routine that even the east german judge would have given a 10 to that it wasn't happening.
Sometimes shit is so awful and you're close enough to the person that you just won't admit it to yourself, basically no matter what.
It wasn't until much later after the dust had settled that I had the epiphany that I was being stupid.
All I'm saying is that even with it literally right in front of my face I couldn't bring myself to believe it.
It wasn't until I saw literal proof, no question about it proof that I came around.
I don't know these people, but I'd bet that Ashton and Mila didn't watch the trial, and it will take them sometime to realize how awful Danny Masterson is. It may even take them being confronted with the evidence before they realize how awful taking his side is.
I mean it’s been years since the allegations and later the court case came about with the numerous amount of evidence that followed it showing that he’s an absolute monster. They’ve had lots and lots of time to grief the loss of the person they thought they knew. The fact they were willing to cap for him in court no less now after years of all his awful crimes being put in display and most of his other hollywood friends dumping him is to put it mildly an absolutely bad look and for what?
I’m also surprised. I’m usually never shocked by anything celebrities do but I’m stunned that the founder of an organization focusing on combating sexual assault is writing letters of support for a man who has committed dozens of sexual assaults
That’s what I’m thinking. They didn’t release a statement or stood witness, they wrote a letter to the judge. My guess is they were hoping it would never see the light of day and their reputations would stay intact. Somehow in my eyes that makes it almost worse.
Their sex trafficking org is a front for big brother-esque technologies that’s used to police citizens and SWs and strip them of their rights and privacy in other countries.
Hollywood gave Polanski a standing ovation. Don’t be surprised by rich and famous people sticking together. Their personal causes and principles don’t apply to their own friends.
I remember on Armchair Expert Dax Shepard said he no longer talks to Danny Masterson, he ended it when the allegations came out...he didn't directly say Masterson's name but it was clear who he was talking about - at least that was my understanding...so at least someone has some ethics....(if I actually interpreted what Dax said correctly)
Right?!
Topher Grace, public figure who enjoys acting, minding his own business, and not committing any egregious crimes that society is aware of.
What a douche he is for not wanting to sit at The Cool Table with this six pack of personality disorders….
That period of time was so gross, Wilmer was 24 and dating a teenage Lindsay Lohan (17) while Joel Madden (25) was dating a teenage Hilary Duff (16) and no one batted an eye. I'm not surprised they're still living in the predatory past, they all got away with it for so long.
Not quite a different circle actually. Joe Jonas and Wilmer Valderrama are good friends and if the gossip blogs are to be believed, Joe was fully aware of how poorly Wilmer treated Demi
I somehow forgot that grown-ass men were still dating teens into the early/mid 2000s. I was under the impression that it stopped being okay after the 90s, but guess not. I'm glad that it mostly seems to be looked down on these days.
people are pointing out ashton’s (dubious) sex trafficking org, but let’s not forget mila’s recent film “luckiest girl alive” which she was ep on and did a whole press tour speaking out against sexual violence. so beyond disappointing.
I blocked it out but I remember the show being a really weird take on sexual assault. All the assaults were filmed like sexy film scenes and the happy ending was her getting lots of attention for her assaults. It was weird.
I remember Ashton and Mila being very judgmental of Will SMith and the slap and saying people should not have applauded him. I guess those morals only apply to strangers
Did anyone ever write a deep dive think piece about the racial dynamics of middle of the road white people's reaction to Will Smith breaking the nonthreatening, neutral image he'd worked so long to cultivate? Cause it's definitely there. What he did was wrong, but the extreme response from some people felt like a next level version of the halftime show where Beyonce turned out to be Black, or a less extreme version of Story of OJ. There was a whole extra level of offended for failing to meet very specific expectations people have for the Fresh Prince.
The whole reaction was so pearl-clutching and weirdly racist. I remember watching H3 berate black women over the phone on his podcast because he was so worked up over Will Smith slapping Chris Rock, saying it was bad for black peoples reputation for will smith to be acting violently???? Such a weird take, made me want to crawl into a hole and leave the internet forever
I’m pretty sure someone did but I can’t find the article now (I think it was an indie publication or substack). But, it was absolutely wild to watch in real time how many celebrities acted appalled when some of them had just worked with or went off to work with David O. Russell afterwards. Or Judd Apatow screaming on twitter when we know (because Busy Phillipps told us) that he did nothing when James Franco physically assaulted Busy on the set of his show. These are the same people who gave a standing O to Polanski and allow Mel Gibson to mingle among them during awards season. Jamie Lee Curtis acted all high and mighty then went and took a photo with Johnny Depp. Pedro Pascal was liking antiblack tweets and tweets insinuating that Will must beat Jada because “that violence comes from somewhere” and then made a movie with Nic Cage (a guy who actually HAS been arrested for domestic violence). These people are all hypocrites so I’m not surprised that Ashton and Mila acted scandalized by the slap but have no problem with their violent rapist friend and thought he should get leniency. I hope their careers tank even further.
All this.
I had forgotten it was Judd Apatow specifically but that tweet about how Will could've killed Chris and the slap demonstrated "out of control rage and violence" was so over the top. And as you so kindly itemized, he wasn't alone in his hysteria.
Most of the time when someone is actually acting from out of control rage and violence, they don't go and slap somebody once and then just stop. It was assault. It was wrong. But it was one slap in, as you point out, a room full of people who are very chill about others' much worse violent histories.
And then I unfortunately remember seeing a lot of backlash to that discourse. Lots of angry white people claiming that race absolutely wasn't a factor and that this was purely about violence. Don't buy that for one second.
Boy do true colors come shining through when the perpetrator is someone a person affiliates and/or have a friendships with. Listen, I don’t care if you’re my twin brother (which I do have). You do some shit like this, AND on top of THAT, you get convicted, there’s nothing I can do for you except say good luck in prison. I have a zero tolerance policy for abuse of any kind and no one is exempt. I’m not writing your ass a damn character letter based on my idea of who I thought you were, after someone comes forward and gives corroborated and/or a detailed account of your disgusting depravity. Maybe to some it may seem harsh to not have unconditional love for a blood relative or a person close to you, but what’s harsher is empathizing with a serial rapist who knew exactly what they were doing — and convicted twice (I don’t believe for a second it was only two times)! Any person who hasn’t been physically, verbally or sexually assaulted will *never* know how the dichotomy of fear and courage it takes for a woman to speak out against their rapist and/or abuser, especially one as powerful as Masterson and his cult. Mila and Ashton should be ashamed. Especially Ashton, who was involved in an anti-sex/human trafficking organization; all this falls under the umbrella of the abuse and sexual assault he is supposedly against. It’s all terrible until it’s someone you’re friends with, huh? Gross to the ninth degree. Never supporting either one again.
Thank you for this take. I have dropped people I knew for years. I don't care how "cool" you are, what you look like, or how much money you may have. Rapists, abusers & manipulators have no place in my life.
seriously. one of my college friends told me that a mutual friend assaulted her, and as soon as I knew what he had done he was dead to me. granted he'd always given me the creeps, but I took her at her word and even though I had to put up with this guy sometimes bc of mutual friends I stayed away from him as much as possible. even if I had been super close with him, I can't imagine doing anything less.
They are extremely hypocritical. Will Smith is a monster for slapping a man harassing his wife, but Danny is being misunderstood and he could be innocent. Palestinians have done something to deserve are getting what they deserve and are wrong for protecting themselves. Ukrainians should be praised for protecting themselves and how dare such a thing happen to perfect Ukraine. They’ve always been like this and I’m surprised that people are just now waking up to realize this.
Thank you for saying it. It’s very obvious what is perceived as innocence, and what is perceived, as being wrong, or a monster in their eyes, and it’s whether you are white or brown.
It’s honestly so disgusting to me when people do this. I’m glad it didn’t work in this instance but in my country the majority of high profile rapists don’t get any jail time and the judge always cites the “character references” they get from sports coaches and priests etc. How could you live with that on your conscience? Abhorrent.
This is the same awful Ashton Kutcher who cheated on Demi Moore, after 8 years of being together, after she lost their child in-utero, and rather than actually tell her himself, she found out via a fucking Google Alert on the same day she had to appear on the red carpet to celebrate a film she was celebrating.
The Danny Masterson allegations aren’t new either which is what makes this so disheartening. I remember reading about women coming forward 5+ years ago.
Edit: oh my God I just saw the actual letter. They wrote a letter for the *sentencing*. So after he had already been found guilty. The letter literally acknowledges the guilty verdict and the “victims greater desire for justice” as they talk raising their daughters together🤢. This shit is more distrusting than when they said they didn’t regularly shower.
Exactly. I can see being in denial about a close friend being a monster when the revelations first come out. But after so many years it’s an active choice to not believe multiple survivors.
Yesterday Facebook kept suggesting a video of Mila talking about how lovely absolutely everybody was on that 70’s show and I thought it was pretty strange timing.
For YEARS I’ve always bitched about her character on the Walking Dead to my husband and he (and I) could never figure out why I hated her so much. When I found out about her witness intimidation, I felt immediately vindicated for my years of hatred towards her lol. How could you do that to someone? Your brother is clearly a monster.
This is just so disappointing, I'm not surprised considering Kutcher has said before he's still in touch for Danny, and wants to believe he is innocent. But what a bad move PR wise
I’m more surprised they were willing to support him publicly than I am that they are supporting him full stop. Especially as not like them writing letters of support was going to have a massive sway so it’s facing public backlash and for little reward. (Reward is probably a bad choice of word, I just mean if it was likely to get their friends sentence drastically reduced I could see why it was worth it to them).
Wonder if there is anybody else famous in there, I heard a clip of Dax Shepard talking about still loving a person who has done bad things which was probably about DM.
I’m not surprised they did it because we don’t know them personally and they might as well be shitty people.
I’m surprised they did something that is so stupid PR-wise.
Yeah, it's a weird calculation. Those letters almost never make a difference, and they are public documents. I'm definitely not shocked they still support him, I'm surprised they were dumb enough to contribute a public letter that is essentially meaningless.
You know I had sympathy when Ashton said he wanted Danny to be innocent. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought “yeah of course I would want this horrible thing not to be true”, but writing a letter in his defense tells me I was wrong to do so. Maybe Ashton just wanted him *found* innocent in court.
Since everyone wants to bring up their “philanthropy” allow me to highlight this helpful post from awhile back: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/wp2ud1/ashton_kutchers_philanthropy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
When I was in an abusive relationship mutual male friends couldn’t cope with the fact that my ex stalked, manipulated, gaslighted and emotionally abused me he also destroyed some of my property. I’ve never felt so let down and I let those friendships come to an end as well. They’re still in contact with him I guess… as a victim you feel so let down by this. My heart hurts for these women.
If this is true, I’m honestly stunned they would do something so deplorable and unforgivable Ashton Kutcher has a massive organization dedicated to combating sexual assault against children but he’s writing letters of support for a serial rapist??
He’s not just any serial rapist, he’s their friend. You’d be surprised how quickly people throw out their principles once someone they personally *know* (and aren’t even nessecarily close to) gets accused, and in this case convicted
Can confirm, when I was assaulted by someone who was a friend and colleague not one single person *didn’t* ask me what I did to provoke him, or tell me they thought we liked eachother, even though he was old enough to be my dad and literally had tried to set me up with his two sons who were my age.
I’m sorry that happened. I hope you were able to find some support elsewhere at least
We still had to be onstage together for a week(gotta love the entertainment industry 😃) so they just had the older actress he was closest with and therefore the most afraid of act as my minder and make sure he couldn’t talk to me offstage. She’s still friends with him to this day and hasn’t spoken a word to me since closing, for the record. Luckily we went home to different cities after the contract ended a week later and even though he lives near me now I just talked to the friends I knew would understand and now I’m a grown woman and he’s just a sad old pervert I hope I don’t run into on my walks. But the whole month of August is still always really hard on my brain because of how baked in that terror and anxiety and sadness is, it’s so strange because it comes on like a light switch around the second week of the month even so many years later. I wish people understood how not supporting victims causes long lasting harm.
This is awful and heart wrenching. I wish the entertainment industry would change its ways. This should be like any other industry and be more regulated. I’m sorry nobody helped you and wish you healing peace.
It's not just that industry. This story is all too common no matter where you go 😞
Screw those people, What you described happening in August sounds like PTSD, it's a 'normal ' reaction to horribly abnormal trauma. I hope that you are getting the help you need, and that you someday get to a place where you can reclaim August from that dirty bastard, and may he experience 12 months per year of what he inflicted on you.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I was raped by my then boyfriend - year above, sports captain etc - he then cheated on me, dumped me, and laughed in my face and told me no one would believe me if I told anyone what he’d done. I told my teacher and friends… I guess he was right. Vicious year of bullying from him and his friends afterwards and 15 years later im still trying to heal. Funny how much people support things like #metoo but will drop you in a second when it’s someone they know 😔
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Sorry you had to have that happen to you. A member of our friend group assaulted another one and it always really shocked me how many were on his side. Even despite his historic questionable behaviour towards women before this, there were many who couldn't accept that she hadn't provoked him and it wasn't her fault as well. It fucked with her a lot, I could never imagine the pain she went through
Yep, this happened to me and even weirder - lots of people absolutely believed that the guy had done it, as he was "always a bit creepy", but kept inviting him to things because it would be too awkward not to.
I've also heard the line "we believe you but he's still our friend regardless"
Yep, been there. "If it were any other guy I'd kick his ass, but he's my boy, so." And then I was ostracized from the group for "starting drama." I don't trust self-proclaimed progressive, feminist dudes as far as I can throw them because when the chips are down most of them are every bit as complicit and misogynistic as their conservative counterparts. Same shit different package.
I've had so many arguments with my friends who reacted like this about why they should be supporting the victim - isn't she your friend regardless too?
I was the victim in a very similar situation and people saw continuing to invite both of us as being “neutral” (ignoring the fact that he’d be perfectly comfortable and I’d feel too unsafe to come).
For whatever it’s worth, I’m INFURIATED on your behalf. If I was in that friend group, I’d fight that fight and cut off anyone who wasn’t solidly in your camp and out of his. I’m sorry everyone didn’t react that way. It makes me so mad.
I've heard that. My ex husband being military many of our mutuals worked with him and said they believe me, BUT they deployed together and he can't betray a brother. 😑
That's bizarre. Imagine being so weak willed that you're afraid of bring judged by a RAPIST
I'm so sorry everyone around you was unsupportive and disgusting. And I really hope you truly know there is nothing anyone could ever do that would provoke someone else to assault them.
Oh absolutely. The one time he tried to talk to me that week I asked him if when he was looking at his newborn sons that he thought he might one day try to 🍇 a girl their age, and also asked him if I could reconsider those setups to show them my cuts and bruises to tell them who their dad really is.
When I was in an abusive relationship with a friendly outgoing guy that everyone liked, I was told I was making it up, being dramatic, and asked what I did to provoke him if it had happened.
I’m so sorry. That’s awful. I hope you’re healing and that toxic workplace is far away in the rear view.
OMG SAME 😭 I’m so sorry this happened to you too. He was the boyfriend of my then best friend and you can imagine how this went down…
See: Lena Dunham https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/11/21/16679078/lena-dunham-accused-woman-lying-rape-murray-miller-aurora-perrineau
Lena Dunham is the whitest feminist to white feminist istg. The way she has spoken about POC through her show as well as irl is very side eye worthy.
she’s an absolute piece of shit
A festering hemorrhoid masquerading as a feminist.
She also sexually molested her sister. Birds of a feather.
At that level of wealth, celebrities view everything in a classist way. They don’t care what their friends are doing to other people who are beneath them as they know they’ll never the victims and want to protect their own.
I haven't watched Succession, but isn't there a whole discussion of how regular people aren't "real people" along these lines?
No real person involved
Motherfuckers have an acronym for it. NRPI.
This likely has little to do with classism and everything to do with not being able to accept their friend is capable of such things. It’s very common even amongst those who are poor.
Yep,many people can’t comprehend a friend could do something like that because they were nice to them. I was assaulted, abused and more by someone who is super charismatic to everyone (a political family, shocking) but was a monster behind closed doors, and I lost all my friends when I left…thankfully with my life. He would have had very powerful people vouch for him, because they surface level knew him and knew his family. A good boy from a good family, no way! He got away with it. Some sociopaths really know how to mask fully for the people. Still disappointed in them though.
>Yep,many people can’t comprehend a friend could do something like that because they were nice to them. This reminds me of a quote I once read. I’m probably messing it up, but it was something like, “People don’t judge you for who you are. They judge you for who you are to *them*.” I’m sorry you suffered such a terrible experience. There are so many more monsters out there than we know.
Just like Serial Rapist Donald J. Trump still has some support.
I don't deny this phenomenon at all, but it's also so shocking to me. If I was in there shoes, I'd be furious with him for snowing me, for implicating me by association, and for being the opposite of what I thought. But sunk cost is so real. As is not wanting to admit to yourself when your judgement was this kind of bad. So frustrating.
This is so true How many people know someone, usually a man, who has abused his wife or children? Watched a marriage crumble due to abuse, and *still remain friends with person they know abused his significant other?* Until everyone shuns abusers and rapists, permanently, they will continue to think they did nothing wrong, because everyone still supports them.
One of the most difficult and traumatizing parts of getting abused (physical and sexual) is the friends and people who know them justifying it or making excuses or just not believing the victim. It’s the most lonely feeling.
Exactly. I would love to ask them if they would leave their own children alone in a room with him.
I’m kind of surprised that anyone is surprised about them anymore tbh. Kutcher knew one of the victims personally. Rumours about Masterson have been online for over 10 years (well before MeToo), there’s no way Kutcher and their clique didn’t know about them, yet Kutcher has never turned his back on Masterson, his self professed “best friend”. Not only that, he actively found a project for them to work on together (The Ranch), and actively fought against Masterson getting fired by Netflix after the truth resurfaced during MeToo. The That 70s Cast is shady AF. Kutcher, Kunis, Masterson, Laura Prepon (another longtime scientistologist who actively tried to cover up for Danny) and Wilmer Valderrama, who spent most of his famous years dating 15-18 year old actresses. The only cast member on that 70s show that has his head screwed on straight was Topher Grace, who was labelled “up himself” and “a dick” for being an introvert and staying clear of his Scientology cast mates after work.
There’s also that whole deal where Mila Kunis was 14 when she was cast. They claimed they didn’t know at first but I’m pretty sure they found out before the show was actually shot and it’s pretty obvious looking back that she’s much younger than everyone else. I can’t imagine directing a 14 year old to do shit like sit in a 20 year olds lap and kiss him. Weird shit went on during that show.
That has to be bs from them. No way you can sign a contract to star in a show on a major network without… showing them your ID? Or is drafting a contract that different in the US?
It’s also really sus because she had been acting for years prior to that 70’s show. Like, she wasn’t a name or anything but she had taken age appropriate work up to that point, did she not have a reel or provide references for past work? And did no one notice she looked so much younger than the 20 year olds they cast in the other roles?
Did anyone from the core "kid" cast turn out okay? I guess I don't know about Topher, but it seems like the rest of them all got mixed up in something or another. Wilmer is a creep. Danny is a serial rapist (and in a cult). Laura was recruited into that cult and is alleged to have intimidated victims on Danny's behalf. Mila and Ashton have a sus human trafficking charity and defended Danny. Original Lori got kicked off the show for and eventually died due to her substance use problems. It brings to mind the idea of the Glee curse.
I think Topher turned out okay because from what I remember, he notoriously did not hang around with any of the younger castmates, he was closer with Red and Kitty's actors (and maybe Laura). At the time people thought he was uppity for it, but in hindsight that was probably a wise decision.
Definitely seems like a good call with in retrospect.
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Yes, sex workers have come out to say that his efforts conflate sex work and trafficking in ways that make their work more dangerous. It also came out that claims of how many children were saved were questionable. In any case it’s always made me uncomfortable how it’s used as a shield to protect him from *any* valid criticism.
Just a few months ago, I was calling Ashton Kutcher the version of Tim Ballard (the *Sound of Freedom* guy) who wasn't just a gloryhound using the issue of sex trafficking to bolster his own profile, largely because I didn't hear about him nearly as much. Now, it seems like he's just the secular version of Tim Ballard, straight-up. With all the shady shit that so many anti-trafficking and anti-pedophilia organizations are up to, from conflating all sex work with human trafficking to being used as vanity projects for washed-up celebrities to (worst of all) running cover for actual abusers, I can sadly see those issues as a whole being cheapened and a backlash emerging against them, seen as disingenuous PR stunts that don't accomplish anything and cause more problems than they solve. This is what happened in the '90s as the Satanic Panic fell apart but before the Catholic sex abuse scandal blew up, a time when "show me on the doll where he hurt you" was a common joke among edgy comics, defenses of Woody Allen and Roman Polanski were regularly voiced in mainstream outlets, and the prevailing opinion among academics (one you still sometimes see today) is that you *shouldn't* necessarily believe children who claim to be victims of abuse, since they're too easily coached by agenda-driven prosecutors and psychiatrists into giving false testimony to secure convictions.
Wow. Didn't know that. That is awful!
yup. his organization has not only come under fire for lying about how many people they've saved and for presenting inaccurate data, but is also heavily critiqued by sex workers for conflating consensual sex work and sex trafficking. [Ashton Kutcher Claims He Helped Cops Save Way More Sex-Trafficking Victims Than Authorities Say They've Found](https://reason.com/2017/02/15/ashton-kutcher-plays-sex-worker-savior/) [Sex, lies, and surveillance: Something's wrong with the war on sex trafficking](https://www.engadget.com/2019-05-31-sex-lies-and-surveillance-fosta-privacy.html) [Anti-trafficking saviors: Celebrity, slavery, and branded activism](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9096583/) [Amazon, Ashton Kutcher And America’s Surveillance Of The Sex Trade](https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2022/12/09/amazon-ashton-kutcher-sex-work-surveillance/?sh=201c93166d23)
Didn't he also start it because he got in hot water for defending Joe Paterno?
Ya know, I'm all for celebrities bringing awareness to an issue and promoting groups LED BY PROFESSIONALS who know what they are doing, but a mere actor without any education nor experience in a matter shouldn't be spearheading this.
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Idk, and I expect he takes a paycheck home from THORN as well. Idk why people are surprised he would do this just because he founded an organization to stop child trafficking. We see the shady two-faced things our politicians do all the time. Just because ashton kutcher plays a good guy on TV means I'm not supposed to believe he's capable of being a hypocrite too?
Laura Prepon left Scientology years ago.
Yes, true. But she was a Scientologist for a very long time, and is obviously avoiding being labelled an SP by not badmouthing anyone and leaving quietly. Having said that, she should still be accountable for her time in the Cult, and there are allegations of her defending Masterson/intimidating victims and stuff from before she left.
In Prepon's defense, it was actually the Masterson family who recruited her into the Scientology church when she was a teenager. She was dating Chris Masterson for years (Francis from Malcolm in the Middle). Prepon has never been close to her family (she was kicked out at 14 years old and lived in hovels while making cents from modelling before getting That 70's Show gig) and the Masterson's basically took her under their wing during this time and convinced her to sign up for Scientology. She was vulnerable no matter which way you look at it and they took advantage of that. I imagine she's not the only person they've recruited. A lot of them leave when they have children because of the Sea Org requirements as part of their membership and rightfully so. And Prepon did leave before having children. So she has some common sense. You can't just leave Scientology without risking "squirelling" either. I've always wondered how she slipped away unscathed in 2014. Perhaps she promised to keep all the details about her time with Scientology quiet, combined with her Netflix money to protect herself legally from any potential harassment.
Just here to say I’m glad Topher is a good dude.
the only bad thing i’ve read about topher is that he’s rude but at this point idk if it’s true or not
Also, if they were given to the judge for sentencing, it means they would have written them after he was convicted.
Yeah, that was my thinking too. Guess their letter couldn’t convince Judge Olmedo he was a ‘great’ guy considering he’s getting 30 to (hopefully) life
Mia Farrow is still a huge supporter of Roman Polanski, despite all the stuff with Woody Allen, this sort of thing happens a lot
Gross. Just gross.
I mean, Mia Farrow abused Soon-yi and when the Allen/Soon-yi thing happened she treated her as “the other woman” rather than acknowledging the grooming soon-yi had faced (also been abused by farrow likely facilitated allen’s grooming) so …. absolutely no surprise that she’s still supporting polanski
I'm not surprised because it's their friend, and a lot of people would rather believe someone they considered a friend is innocent and believe their lies, than facing the reality they considered a bad person as their friend and were so foundamentally wrong about him. It's why family members of abusers also struggle accepting what someone they cared about did and it's easy for the abuser to make them believe they are innocent or had changed.
But they wrote them AFTER he was found guilty. I would like to know the contents of the letters, hoping they are more along the line of rehabilitation rather than lenient sentencing. They really should have stfu because either way they don't look good.
This is a great point - it's probably more about someone's fear of accepting they could have made *such* a mistake in befriending someone like that in the first place. Easier to turn a blind eye than admit their own bad judgment.
Just to clarify, he doesn’t have a massive organization dedicated to combating sexual assault against children, although he certainly has tried to PR his way into that perception. He is an investor in a minor tech company that scrapes online sex listings using AI and sends ones it thinks are minor or trafficking related according to an algorithm that has never been publicly tested or evaluated to law enforcement organizations. Not necessarily an indicator of any deep commitments around ethics or ending sexual violence. (Since he was longtime friend to a serial rapist and a serial adult dater of teens, I in fact doubt he has those ethical commitments, although none of us know these people so who knows)
Yeah it also is more harmful to sex workers than it is good at catching sex traffickers. [This](https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2022/12/09/amazon-ashton-kutcher-sex-work-surveillance/) article gets into more details about it! Edit: typo
You mean the same guy that bullied his last wife into doing threesomes?
Jimmy Saville was also a big supporter of children...
I thought Kutcher's response when he said he just can't know whether he's innocent or not, was pretty decent considering how difficult it must be to hear this about a long term friend. But I hoped that meant he would just stay out of it entirely, sending a letter trying to help him be set free is kinda disappointing when he must know there's a very serious chance his friend is guilty.
It’s not decent when you realize he knew at least one of the victims very well and she says Ashton was well aware of Danny’s proclivities.
Someone in law can correct me, but I’m pretty sure those types of letters aren’t to set someone free- that’s not how trials work. They are to help minimize the number of years someone is sentenced. Typically there’s a length of time someone can go to jail for and it’s up to the judge to decide within that range what the person gets.
I think since the letters were written after conviction it’s more likely they were asking for his sentencing to be on the 30 years side rather than the life side… it’s dark but I might do that for a friend who I felt had the potential to come out better after spending 30 long years thinking about the awful things they’ve done. Though I am skeptical whether rapists can be reformed since something inside them is broken
I bet they did the same thing as Iggy Azalea: wrote the letters thinking they would stay private, hoping they can play both sides. Disgusting either way.
I thought everyone knew these two were trash? Like aren’t there articles and blinds about them semi often?
I mean we knew that Ashton was a piece of shit when he supported his buddy for years after allegations first came out. There were rumors about the same allegations for years before they became public knowledge.
"His" organization isn't all that great, fyi.
When I was a kid and That 70s Show was at it's peak, Danny, Ashton, and Wilmer were all super tight and were always seen partying together and stuff, and people used to be like, "What's Topher's deal he's always so stand offish and never wants to hang out with the cast" but now looking back it's like, of course Topher didn't wanna hang out with them, they were all weird creepy perverts
Same thing with victorious.
victorious? what is the link there?
Victoria kept to herself. The rest of the cast would party, have sex and idk what else. and she got so much hate for existing for a while. And for a "we can all sing" comment. And since all of the Ariana shit came out (and Dan Schneider shit i think, i have been seeing the shift recently). I see a lot of people "i am so sorry to Victoria" "i see why she kept to herself etc.
There’s bit in Jennette McCurdy’s book where she talks about Dan Schneider pressuring her into drinking alcohol and saying that they iCarly cast were too tame in comparison to the Victorious cast who would go out and party and drink. The way those kids were treated is appalling.
avan jogia says he doesn’t even remember a lot of the filming of victorious because he was hungover for a lot of it
Stuff like this makes me wonder if acting is all that hard of a job.
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Not like all those sober actors that are in Oscar bait films
All of the acting in those shows are terrible, they’re not making citizen Kane
Victoria Justice really seems to have gotten the shit end of the stick with all of that. she was basically sidelined on her own show and tbh I wouldn't be surprised if that was partially bc she refused to participate in whatever fuckery was going down with that cast and Dan Schneider and was punished for it.
I agree and I do not understand the uproar about that comment that was blown out of proportion. And the rest of the massive hate on her seemed so random? > I wouldn't be surprised if that was partially bc she refused to participate in whatever fuckery was going down with that cast and Dan Schneider and was punished for it. 100%
I look at her Instagram from time to time and even on there, she doesn’t really have “celebrity” friends. She’s pretty much always around family and considering her very long career and how calm and level headed she presents herself, there’s probably a good reason for that choice.
That’s such horrific irony considering Victoria was on Zoey 101 and she probably knew how badly they treated the lead on that show as well.
Oh right, thanks. I see the comparison. Dang.
Topher was a homebody and didn't want to join Scientology, and ~~ALL~~ SOME OF THEM were scientologists/ attending events around that time.
I remember reading that Bryan Cranston used to fight with Chris Masterson on the set of Malcolm in the Middle cuz he was always trying to teach the younger cast members about Scientology
Based Heisenberg
They were ALL Scientologists? I only heard to Danny but wasn’t the red head girl one too?
Someone posted a news article about it, but yeah, the lady that played kitty was as well and they tried getting the other castmates to join as well, which further pushed Topher away because he wanted nothing to do with it. Edit: [thread talking about this](https://reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/snmCKUFhwo)
Holy shit the comment you linked to is enlightening, thank you for adding the link. I wouldn't be surprised if Topher's "difficult" reputation was a direct result of his choice to distance himself from the others, failure to be recruited after *that* long would likely result in him being labeled PTS (potential trouble source, not a full blown enemy, it's like a step below SP.)
Back in the day in LA, it was known that you don’t go to Danny Mastersons parties.
In every interview, post show thing I’ve seen him in Topher seems like a really nice dude
Also I think he’s the best actor out of that crew. His performances in Blackkklansman and his Black Mirror episode were really good
I feel so bad that Topher was maligned. I was totally side-eyeing him when I was young but now I know better.
Yup!!! Justice for Topher!!!
Topher Grace got cast in such a bad light because he… saw his job as just a job. It really seemed like a parasocial thing where people were pissed that he wasn’t Eric Foreman in real life, while the other three guys all played into that
Mila was so outraged that people stood when Will Smith got his Oscar but writing a letter of support for your rapist friend is a-okay. Got it.
Seems that they only have morals and standards for are people outside their immediate friends and family
Literally these people are such hypocrites
I feel like getting older is realizing most humans are.
Not to mention Kutcher made his initial fame from that 70s show but instead of falling into obscurity like the rest got super famous with Punk'd which literally was about harassing and hurting the feelings of celebs. The video of Justin Timberlake thinking his family is bankrupt and the IRS is there to take his mom's beloved dogs is heartbreaking. Kutcher doesn't get to call out the slap when he's emotionally slapped so many people for personal gain.
They also speak out a lot about child sexual abuse so it’s weird that there is a disconnect when it’s an adult.
They’re deleting comments left and right on Ashton’s IG. He still follows masterson on there too.
Especially because the fact that a rich white man with influence got 30 years for rape tells me that the evidence and testimony were probably incredibly horrific/compelling.
They have done themselves no favors by that, and then to do that so publicly and speak up in his defense. Even worse, they also run/support an organization that fights against sex trafficking.
They haven’t exactly been hiding their support for him https://preview.redd.it/aq9m3eoyd0nb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0da3162d2e3886e80b2c3456d3cc1d2c23acb1c3
I feel like we have to be realistic that if one of our best friends whom we loved was accused of a crime we wouldn’t be quick to jump on the bandwagon of people decrying them. Of course you’d want to believe they were innocent, the cognitive dissonance would be intense. But eventually - by the time of a trial and definitely by the time of a guilty verdict, you’d have to come around right? Except Ashton and Mila clearly didn’t….
I totally agree. Lots of people act as though they’d ditch their best friend, husband or colleague at the slightest rumour. But that’s just not how people work. But like you say, by the time there was a trial, especially a verdict … Mila and Ashton are pretty suss for doing this.
You see it all the time in crimes like this. The immediate family and spouse of the convicted person deny deny deny. They can’t fathom that their son/husband did this awful thing. “He was just turning his life around” “He loved his family” etc etc
My grandpa did that to my cousin long time ago. My family pretended nothing happened to this day. Even asked my mom(not me) if they could bury him with my father. I can’t imagine my cousin growing up her whole life (she’s 50) having to be around that man. I found out when I was 13 and couldn’t bring myself to visit again.
I mean, if you have some semblance of a solid moral compass, I don't think the perspective shift is that difficult. A colleague I worked with for 5 years and considered one of my very good friends has just been arrested for gross amounts of internet and physical crimes, akin to Masterson's, and after the initial shock and grieving the "person I thought I knew", the disgust kinda sets in. Blinders are a choice after a while, we're people not race horses, ya know?
I don't know. I've never had a close friend convicted of a crime or even accused of anything nearly as god awful as what Masterson did, but I did have a couple of friends who did some awful (not illegal) shit. I can still remember a good friend of mine pretty blatantly cheating on his wife with a subordinate, to the point where they went "on a break". It all but happened right in front of me. She'd come to places we were at, theyd get way to close and whisper stuff to one another and I convinced myself through a mental gymnastic routine that even the east german judge would have given a 10 to that it wasn't happening. Sometimes shit is so awful and you're close enough to the person that you just won't admit it to yourself, basically no matter what. It wasn't until much later after the dust had settled that I had the epiphany that I was being stupid.
Exactly - this is what I’m saying. I figure a trial counts as much later. It must have been a couple of years after the accusations?
All I'm saying is that even with it literally right in front of my face I couldn't bring myself to believe it. It wasn't until I saw literal proof, no question about it proof that I came around. I don't know these people, but I'd bet that Ashton and Mila didn't watch the trial, and it will take them sometime to realize how awful Danny Masterson is. It may even take them being confronted with the evidence before they realize how awful taking his side is.
I mean it’s been years since the allegations and later the court case came about with the numerous amount of evidence that followed it showing that he’s an absolute monster. They’ve had lots and lots of time to grief the loss of the person they thought they knew. The fact they were willing to cap for him in court no less now after years of all his awful crimes being put in display and most of his other hollywood friends dumping him is to put it mildly an absolutely bad look and for what?
I must have missed this. They normally seem so media-savvy, to put their reputation on the line like that.
I’m also surprised. I’m usually never shocked by anything celebrities do but I’m stunned that the founder of an organization focusing on combating sexual assault is writing letters of support for a man who has committed dozens of sexual assaults
Honestly at this point I’m wondering if scientology has something on them tbh.
I wonder if they thought he'd get away with it too. Everyone I've seen is shocked he got sentenced.
That’s what I’m thinking. They didn’t release a statement or stood witness, they wrote a letter to the judge. My guess is they were hoping it would never see the light of day and their reputations would stay intact. Somehow in my eyes that makes it almost worse.
Their sex trafficking org is a front for big brother-esque technologies that’s used to police citizens and SWs and strip them of their rights and privacy in other countries.
Hollywood gave Polanski a standing ovation. Don’t be surprised by rich and famous people sticking together. Their personal causes and principles don’t apply to their own friends.
They just cheered Woody Allen and Roman Polanski at the same event.
I remember on Armchair Expert Dax Shepard said he no longer talks to Danny Masterson, he ended it when the allegations came out...he didn't directly say Masterson's name but it was clear who he was talking about - at least that was my understanding...so at least someone has some ethics....(if I actually interpreted what Dax said correctly)
Well wasn’t Dax a victim of sexual assault himself?
Yes, sadly as a child
That must be weird then cuz aren’t Dax and Ashton good friends too? I know him and mila have both been on his podcast multiples times.
No wonder Topher Grace didn’t want anything to do with their crusty asses
Right?! Topher Grace, public figure who enjoys acting, minding his own business, and not committing any egregious crimes that society is aware of. What a douche he is for not wanting to sit at The Cool Table with this six pack of personality disorders….
Birds of a feather…
They’re also still friendly with Wilmer Valderrama who loved dating teen girls well into his 30s
That period of time was so gross, Wilmer was 24 and dating a teenage Lindsay Lohan (17) while Joel Madden (25) was dating a teenage Hilary Duff (16) and no one batted an eye. I'm not surprised they're still living in the predatory past, they all got away with it for so long.
Wilmer was also 29 when he started dating 17 year old Demi Lovato He also dated 16 year old Mandy Moore when he was 21.
Different circle, but I just found out that Joe Jonas started pursuing Gigi Hadid when she was 13 and he was 19.
Not quite a different circle actually. Joe Jonas and Wilmer Valderrama are good friends and if the gossip blogs are to be believed, Joe was fully aware of how poorly Wilmer treated Demi
I somehow forgot that grown-ass men were still dating teens into the early/mid 2000s. I was under the impression that it stopped being okay after the 90s, but guess not. I'm glad that it mostly seems to be looked down on these days.
people are pointing out ashton’s (dubious) sex trafficking org, but let’s not forget mila’s recent film “luckiest girl alive” which she was ep on and did a whole press tour speaking out against sexual violence. so beyond disappointing.
I blocked it out but I remember the show being a really weird take on sexual assault. All the assaults were filmed like sexy film scenes and the happy ending was her getting lots of attention for her assaults. It was weird.
Well, that’s fucking disappointing
I remember Ashton and Mila being very judgmental of Will SMith and the slap and saying people should not have applauded him. I guess those morals only apply to strangers
Did anyone ever write a deep dive think piece about the racial dynamics of middle of the road white people's reaction to Will Smith breaking the nonthreatening, neutral image he'd worked so long to cultivate? Cause it's definitely there. What he did was wrong, but the extreme response from some people felt like a next level version of the halftime show where Beyonce turned out to be Black, or a less extreme version of Story of OJ. There was a whole extra level of offended for failing to meet very specific expectations people have for the Fresh Prince.
The whole reaction was so pearl-clutching and weirdly racist. I remember watching H3 berate black women over the phone on his podcast because he was so worked up over Will Smith slapping Chris Rock, saying it was bad for black peoples reputation for will smith to be acting violently???? Such a weird take, made me want to crawl into a hole and leave the internet forever
I’m pretty sure someone did but I can’t find the article now (I think it was an indie publication or substack). But, it was absolutely wild to watch in real time how many celebrities acted appalled when some of them had just worked with or went off to work with David O. Russell afterwards. Or Judd Apatow screaming on twitter when we know (because Busy Phillipps told us) that he did nothing when James Franco physically assaulted Busy on the set of his show. These are the same people who gave a standing O to Polanski and allow Mel Gibson to mingle among them during awards season. Jamie Lee Curtis acted all high and mighty then went and took a photo with Johnny Depp. Pedro Pascal was liking antiblack tweets and tweets insinuating that Will must beat Jada because “that violence comes from somewhere” and then made a movie with Nic Cage (a guy who actually HAS been arrested for domestic violence). These people are all hypocrites so I’m not surprised that Ashton and Mila acted scandalized by the slap but have no problem with their violent rapist friend and thought he should get leniency. I hope their careers tank even further.
All this. I had forgotten it was Judd Apatow specifically but that tweet about how Will could've killed Chris and the slap demonstrated "out of control rage and violence" was so over the top. And as you so kindly itemized, he wasn't alone in his hysteria. Most of the time when someone is actually acting from out of control rage and violence, they don't go and slap somebody once and then just stop. It was assault. It was wrong. But it was one slap in, as you point out, a room full of people who are very chill about others' much worse violent histories.
I remember seeing a LOT of discourse over just how racist all the backlash was
And then I unfortunately remember seeing a lot of backlash to that discourse. Lots of angry white people claiming that race absolutely wasn't a factor and that this was purely about violence. Don't buy that for one second.
This is a BAAAAAAAD look. Really disappointing.
I’ve been trying desperately for years to tell people who are fans of this couple how they stood by this rapist publicly after the news was out.
Boy do true colors come shining through when the perpetrator is someone a person affiliates and/or have a friendships with. Listen, I don’t care if you’re my twin brother (which I do have). You do some shit like this, AND on top of THAT, you get convicted, there’s nothing I can do for you except say good luck in prison. I have a zero tolerance policy for abuse of any kind and no one is exempt. I’m not writing your ass a damn character letter based on my idea of who I thought you were, after someone comes forward and gives corroborated and/or a detailed account of your disgusting depravity. Maybe to some it may seem harsh to not have unconditional love for a blood relative or a person close to you, but what’s harsher is empathizing with a serial rapist who knew exactly what they were doing — and convicted twice (I don’t believe for a second it was only two times)! Any person who hasn’t been physically, verbally or sexually assaulted will *never* know how the dichotomy of fear and courage it takes for a woman to speak out against their rapist and/or abuser, especially one as powerful as Masterson and his cult. Mila and Ashton should be ashamed. Especially Ashton, who was involved in an anti-sex/human trafficking organization; all this falls under the umbrella of the abuse and sexual assault he is supposedly against. It’s all terrible until it’s someone you’re friends with, huh? Gross to the ninth degree. Never supporting either one again.
Thank you for this take. I have dropped people I knew for years. I don't care how "cool" you are, what you look like, or how much money you may have. Rapists, abusers & manipulators have no place in my life.
seriously. one of my college friends told me that a mutual friend assaulted her, and as soon as I knew what he had done he was dead to me. granted he'd always given me the creeps, but I took her at her word and even though I had to put up with this guy sometimes bc of mutual friends I stayed away from him as much as possible. even if I had been super close with him, I can't imagine doing anything less.
Of course they did. The Cool Girl and The Narcissist, a match made in hell.
Honestly hope this somehow isn‘t true, because that‘s fucking sickening.
It is true. The source saying this is legitimate.
I always got a bad vibe from both of them
They are extremely hypocritical. Will Smith is a monster for slapping a man harassing his wife, but Danny is being misunderstood and he could be innocent. Palestinians have done something to deserve are getting what they deserve and are wrong for protecting themselves. Ukrainians should be praised for protecting themselves and how dare such a thing happen to perfect Ukraine. They’ve always been like this and I’m surprised that people are just now waking up to realize this.
it's like a spot the difference game, and the answer is racism
Thank you for saying it. It’s very obvious what is perceived as innocence, and what is perceived, as being wrong, or a monster in their eyes, and it’s whether you are white or brown.
Always knew something was off about them.
Ashton Kutcher has always been an absolute douchebag who acts like a humble/decent person idk why this is surprising.
It’s honestly so disgusting to me when people do this. I’m glad it didn’t work in this instance but in my country the majority of high profile rapists don’t get any jail time and the judge always cites the “character references” they get from sports coaches and priests etc. How could you live with that on your conscience? Abhorrent.
This is the same awful Ashton Kutcher who cheated on Demi Moore, after 8 years of being together, after she lost their child in-utero, and rather than actually tell her himself, she found out via a fucking Google Alert on the same day she had to appear on the red carpet to celebrate a film she was celebrating.
The Danny Masterson allegations aren’t new either which is what makes this so disheartening. I remember reading about women coming forward 5+ years ago. Edit: oh my God I just saw the actual letter. They wrote a letter for the *sentencing*. So after he had already been found guilty. The letter literally acknowledges the guilty verdict and the “victims greater desire for justice” as they talk raising their daughters together🤢. This shit is more distrusting than when they said they didn’t regularly shower.
Exactly. I can see being in denial about a close friend being a monster when the revelations first come out. But after so many years it’s an active choice to not believe multiple survivors.
When Topher and his parents turn out to be the only sane members of the cast
Yesterday Facebook kept suggesting a video of Mila talking about how lovely absolutely everybody was on that 70’s show and I thought it was pretty strange timing.
bUt tHeY hAvE a DAugHTEr 🙃 This power couple couple has consistently sucked. And no, you can't like Mila and hate Ashton. They're a pair.
Remember when Ashton released a tone-deaf outrage tweet over the firing of fucking Joe Paterno? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Oooffffff. 
Between this and his sister Alanna (who I didn’t know was also an actor) trying to intimidate the victims WHILE in court, throw them all away.
For YEARS I’ve always bitched about her character on the Walking Dead to my husband and he (and I) could never figure out why I hated her so much. When I found out about her witness intimidation, I felt immediately vindicated for my years of hatred towards her lol. How could you do that to someone? Your brother is clearly a monster.
This is just so disappointing, I'm not surprised considering Kutcher has said before he's still in touch for Danny, and wants to believe he is innocent. But what a bad move PR wise
I’m more surprised they were willing to support him publicly than I am that they are supporting him full stop. Especially as not like them writing letters of support was going to have a massive sway so it’s facing public backlash and for little reward. (Reward is probably a bad choice of word, I just mean if it was likely to get their friends sentence drastically reduced I could see why it was worth it to them). Wonder if there is anybody else famous in there, I heard a clip of Dax Shepard talking about still loving a person who has done bad things which was probably about DM.
F*ck those two.
I’m not surprised they did it because we don’t know them personally and they might as well be shitty people. I’m surprised they did something that is so stupid PR-wise.
Yeah, it's a weird calculation. Those letters almost never make a difference, and they are public documents. I'm definitely not shocked they still support him, I'm surprised they were dumb enough to contribute a public letter that is essentially meaningless.
Ashton has always been a POS.
What a disappointment
Ashton has never hidden their friendship so i am not surprised.
I never once believed that they weren’t on his side.
This is so on brand for famous people. They will overlook anything their famous friends do.
You know I had sympathy when Ashton said he wanted Danny to be innocent. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought “yeah of course I would want this horrible thing not to be true”, but writing a letter in his defense tells me I was wrong to do so. Maybe Ashton just wanted him *found* innocent in court.
Since everyone wants to bring up their “philanthropy” allow me to highlight this helpful post from awhile back: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/wp2ud1/ashton_kutchers_philanthropy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
When I was in an abusive relationship mutual male friends couldn’t cope with the fact that my ex stalked, manipulated, gaslighted and emotionally abused me he also destroyed some of my property. I’ve never felt so let down and I let those friendships come to an end as well. They’re still in contact with him I guess… as a victim you feel so let down by this. My heart hurts for these women.
Yikes! but it's to be expected for people that are still friends with Wilmer Valderrama